SSPX and Lefebvre: A Discussion

Should a faithful catholic avoid attending Masses of the SSPX?
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[@marriedkiwi]

i wasted 28 years fighting for proper establishment of ecclesia dei society and keeping people from SSPX. I was 100% wrong- people should have no hesitation. Archbishop Lefebvre is a saint in heaven and helps us now.

[@muztan3100]

God bless you for your honesty, and may he richly bless you in your pursuit for truth and striving to help the Church return to her Tradition.

[@susancan2939]

God will have that judgment. Eucharistic miracles happened with the novos ordo mass too.

[@muztan3100]

​@@susancan2939 eucharistic miracles are mutually exclusive events and not related to the situation of Abp Lefebvre. He never claimed the NO mass was invalid, but illicit and protestantized (which of course violated the very foundation of divine law regarding the sacred liturgy and the Church's ecclesiastical Tradition). Out of hundreds of bishops, Abp Lefebvre was one of maybe 3 who stood out and did his apostolic duty to pass on the faith of his predecessors, the apostles. For it was not just about the mass, but the doctrines of the Church that always countered the folly of modernism and it's error of vital imminence that took hold during Vatican II and beyond. God bless him for doing his job when NO ONE else would. He is the Athanasius of our time.

[@stephanilance289]

​@@muztan3100yes and amen to that... everything you just said!

[@user-vd3bf3nd6r]

Are you sure? Or is Lefebvre the smoke that Satan let into the Church!!!.

[@karlthomas2429]

AB Lefebvre preserved what he received, and had been received from the Apostles prior to him, with which he passed on to others in the form of the SSPX. If it wasn't for AB Lefebvre and this society, there would be no TLM today. God bless AB Lefebvre and the SSPX!

[@fragilechrissy]

No ,because he had received that every bishop has to obey his pope.And he did not! He thought he was cleverer than St.Paul John 2. And ,surely there would be the old mass .God himself loves it. It is just a lie of the fsspx what you tell here.There were many priests which were celebrating the old mass in 1988 ,not only M.L.

[@user-vd3bf3nd6r]

Aren't you Latin Lovers already in schism. Wasn't Lefebvre schismatic....adios!!!

[@Vexx_Line_]

9:59 💯 Fr Murr is spot on! I also pray he will be raised to Saint one day; for like St. Athanasius & many others before him who were put in a position where they had to take action during a time of grave emergency. He did what they had to do. He's an amazing, outstandingly courageous, holy man; a genuine hero who used his God given discernment & logic to do the right thing. Talk about being in the right place at the right time?!⏳️ People will realise one day. May AB Lefebvre be under the Auspice María. Deo Gratias +

[@Vexx_Line_]

@@user-vd3bf3nd6r Here's some history you may find interesting! The Tridentine Rite was codified during CO Trent. It was in use & organically developed for centuries. CO Trent did not create the Tridentine Rite, it simply codified the Rite which was in use for many centuries. Alternate languages were only used for the past 40-50, out of over 1.6 millennia or more of the Mass' existence (it was only codified during the Council of Trent, but was in use going back to the Church Fathers & Apostles according to evidence). You'd be surprised how much Latin you already know since it's the root for many modern languages, plus it's still used in medical, scientific, technical, legal language & people are able to deal. The missal has Latin in one column and a translation on the other so its easy to follow along if you wish. It's also prudent to remember that the Mass actually is, it's being offered by the priest on our behalf. The sections ment for the people are easy to learn & the gospel is read in Latin & vernacular. Latin is the sacred language of the RCC. There were 3 languages which hung above Christ's head on the cross; Latin, Greek, Hebrew. The use of Latin promotes unity since anywhere anyone would travel, whether locally, across states/provinces & other countries; one could walk into a RCC & know exactly what was going on despite differences in language. Sadly, this unifying aspect is gone now. Also, the meaning & definition of the words do not change over time as with English or modern languages. It's important to note that the Tridentine Rite also contains some Greek, as in the Kyrie Eleison & some Hebrew such as, Hosanna. Also keep in mind that there are over 25 Catholic Churches, each with their own Rite, for example; the Byzantine CC uses the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom spoken in ecclesiastical Greek & some Latin. The Councils ensured that these Rites were never to be abrogated & that all Priests through the ages were granted faculties to offer them in perpetuity. Jerusalem & the surrounding areas Christ traveled to were occupied by Hebrews, Romans & Greeks during that time time & He drew a variety of followers; so certainly would've known how to communicate in these languages. You'd be surprised how quickly you'd catch on to Latin, as our modern languages are based on it. It's still used in medical, scientific, legal & technical language as well, so again after a few times & a little patience people catch on quickly... Especially since the Missal has side by side translations & explanations which make it easy to follow along if you wish. Everything, from the priest's Vestments, to the gestures & movements he makes approaching & across the altar is deeply meaningful & rooted in scripture & 2000 years+ of Sacred Scripture & Sacred Apostolic Tradition. The daily missal as well as other resources available for free online offer detailed descriptions, history & meanings. The beauty, truth, humility within is something quite special! This is the Mass of The Ages, the Mass that our fathers or grandparents, their grandparents and so on attended & offered. This is the Mass which Great Saints attended & offered. Catholics who simply wish to worship as they were taught, as their fathers & their fathers before that did & so on. Catholics who value the passing on of their Spiritual Heritage should be able to do so without fear of persecution or insult [see Quo Primum, Summorum Pontificum & Pascendi Dominici Gregis]. The limiting, subsequent suppression & upcoming possible total ban is unjust, uncharitable, lacks pastoral understanding, and is simply cruel; especially for those who will have to live through yet another disruption in Sacred Tradition/ Heritage. Likewise, I also would never insult the Rites offered by any other CC's or expect them to abandon their Spiritual Heritage. In fact, I've attended several, each was a wonderful & beautiful experience, & look forward to hopefully attending all of them... That is if they don't cease to exist. PS: Our Catholic Excorcists report that the adversaries HATE Latin because it is the sacred language of the RCC. I'll take the word of the Exorcists.👍 +JMJ+

[@sashatesija9117]

Archbishop Lefebvre pray for us 🙏

[@MacheteMambi]

ABP LEFEBVRE and the SSPX thru the grace of God, saved Holy Mother The Church and her Traditional Liturgy.

[@Ekatianova]

Archbishop Lefebvre is a great saint!

[@user-vd3bf3nd6r]

Or the smoke of Satan. Why don't you want people to hear the mass in their own language? Why don't you want people praising God? Why are only select people (latin speakers) allowed to praise God at mass. The smoke of satan is the best explanation for Lefebvre. He wants people to stop worshiping God at mass. That's Satanic!.

[@claramitchell7774]

Thanks God to Archbishop Lefevre!!

[@christineOfs]

From Ontario, Canada! Listening now to the replay! Unite the clans O Lord. Praying for the Sainthood of Archbishop Lefebvre!Send away empty those destroying the Catholic Church!

[@joycemackin9412]

God bless Archbishop Lebreve and the SSPX ✝️✝️✝️

[@chrisekstrom4614]

I’m SSPX since 2021. It’s a redoubt of Christ & His True Church. We are BUILDING! Come join us at the Mass of Ages! ✝️✝️✝️

[@margaretmaryyoung6991]

I belong to an SSPX parish here on Long Island, NY. I left NOVUS ORDO 14 years ago. Archbishop Lefebvre was a holy man!

[@DigitalMan1100]

Wonderful podcasts. I am personally going to SSPX chapel, so it was particularly interesting.

[@rob7800]

Fr Murr, thank you for the beautiful and honest assessment of the holy Archbishop. God bless you!

[@avantibev5814]

Thank you. I enjoy and learn a lot from your discussions with Father Murr. We are suffering much under the Serpent Cupich in Chicago.

[@JamesBond-qd5rc]

Hello from James Bond in Schuyler VA. I attend mass at the SSPX seminary in Dillwyn Virginia. I love attending there.

[@cs2to4]

I live in Culpeper and go to the Linden chapel with Fr. Carlisle. I absolutely love it there and wish to make it down to the seminary sometime soon.

[@LUIS-ox1bv]

Watch their solemn Masses on Sunday, their Vespers and Rosary. Pray that the day will soon come that St.Thomas Aquinas Seminary will get around to finally erecting the Church there.

[@josephmclaughlin9404]

Hello! When the mass was interrupted in 2020. I went looking for a church building where I could attend. The TLM was still being celebrated in Tampa so I started attending. That was where I determined that the Novus Ordo was NOT the same service. I went back in my mind where I first started suspecting something was wrong. One Sunday evening in the 80’s, I was attending mass with my 2 young sons when it came to communion,the priest left the altar area and went to the side of the church to access the tabernacle. My later research then yielded information on how and when and who gave us this service. It was after Vatican II and a committee that contained both Protestant and Freemasons were commissioned to write the Novus Ordo To replace the TLM established by Pius V five hundred years ago under the title mass of the ages in perpetuity. Qusestion… why would any pope (Paul VI, John Paul II, or Francis) feel free to do what hey were doing. Later in 2021, when I started experiencing mobility challenges, on those days I could not drive, I looked up on internet. The only mass I could find consistently was an SSPX mass. I found it to be consistent with the mass of the ages. I hope that this eventually leads to a reunion.

[@JamesBond-qd5rc]

@@cs2to4 Fr. Carlisle is a wonderful priest! I always enjoy hearing him preach when he is at the seminary.

[@user-vd3bf3nd6r]

I am happy for you. But are you really catholic? What exactly are the problems you have with the second vatican council. You're schismatic, already. Francis will see to this fact becoming a reality soon!

[@sheetalsilveira9554]

What a great show! Can’t wait to see and hear more from the both of you. Really good and helpful in these difficult times. Archbishop Lefebvre seems to be coming up a lot these days and so many of them talking about it. It’s beautiful and very encouraging to know more about him, and the fact that he is being spoken about at this time, is Divine Providence. I agree with Fr. Murr…he will be canonised a Saint sometime in the future. I’m in my early 40s, hopefully, God willing, I will be alive at that time. 🙏 Thank you from Australia

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you for listening!

[@marcusm359]

26:12 they wouldn’t let Lefebvre pick the bishop. They also kept delaying the date and he realized they wouldn’t give it to him

[@javaman8895]

He could have q waited a few months

[@marknelson8435]

Not only do I agree with Fr. Murr that Archbishop LeFebvre will be canonized a saint, but I think he will one day be credited with saving the Catholic Church.

[@ladyrotha5420]

I feel these fascinating discussions are vital - not only to understanding the recent history of the Roman Catholic church but to tracing the precipitous decline of our civilisation. _Thank you, thank you, thank you!_

[@kyriaeleison9368]

From India and I was one of those who witnessed the glory of the Traditional church. Well one Sunday when we went to church we saw that the church organ was no where in sight and in its place there was a 'beat group' complete with drums, guitars, new 'hymns'; words set to seccular tunes; dancing acolytes,yes we wept. Most of the 'hymns'did not even mention God, Jesus Our Blessed Mother, and to our horror we realized that we're singing songs penned by Ravind4anath Tagore who was a Mason! Yes we wept. Please God bring back our pious Mass, dont let Pope Francis have his way, please be with us Lord, do not forsake Thy, yes, Thy people. Enough of referring to the Heavenly beings as you,they are Thee, Thy, and Thou. Come Jesus and take charge of Thy church.

[@user-vd3bf3nd6r]

Time for you Latin Lovers to leave the church. According to Vigano, Good and Holy Pope Francis is going to kick you guys out of the Church anyway. No big lose in my view.

[@jimsember3528]

Abp Lefebvre was convinced that the new Mass taught a different faith. He said so in his first SSPX ordination sermon in 1976. He objected to it theologicaly and so refused to say it based on this principle. This is the position of the SSPX ever since, and they clearly publish why they say this. For him to have said the new Mass would have compromised that principle, which is exactly what the innovators wanted. We can see where that leads today comparing the FSSPX to the situation with the Ecclesia Dei groups.

[@susancan2939]

God will have that judgment. Eucharistic miracles happened with the novos ordo mass too.

[@marieny4748]

@@susancan2939 God doesn’t work miracles for no reason. A high percentage of NO Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence. Of course Eucharistic miracles happen there. God works such a miracle to restore the faith to the priest or to the people. He does not work the miracle to confirm them in their error.

[@muztan3100]

Thankfully, modernists like Pope Francis and most recently Cardinal Roche have publicly VERIFIED in direct quotations that the new mass represents a different theology than the old mass and thus the Catholic doctrines of the Council of Trent! God bless them for publicly vindicating Abp Lefevbre and his persecution for 50+ years!! It is only the neo-con Catholics who are attached to the idea of a hermeneutic of continuity to the ambiguity of VII and the new mass (and personal love of JPII and BXVI) who misunderstand and confuse the hierarchy of obedience with proper keeping of the Tradition of the Church. As Abp Lefebvre stated, "It is a masterstroke of the devil to convince one to abandon the whole of Tradition under the guise of obedience."

[@marien8682]

These videos are fantastic Keep going both of You God Bless from Eire❤🇮🇪

[@helenekurjata6343]

Many thanks and every gratitude from BC Canada.

[@gloriadeipatre]

I came to the SSPX 22 years ago. It changed my life and the life of my family. Someday in the future Archbishop Lefebvre and Bishop Castro de Mayer who also stood his ground, will be recognized for the truly pivotal moment in the church's history. Imagine what would have been lost if they had wavered and buckled to the pressure. Imagine all the souls that would have been lost including my own.

[@peters9744]

🎯

[@jeremiahharrison9752]

There is something wrong with this picture. This is a picture of most of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church working to demolish the Church and build a different one in her place. That is what is wrong. We much hold fast to the ancient faith as it has always been, hold fast and lift up the Kingship of Christ. Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!

[@muztan3100]

The SSPX was not founded in Econe, but in the diocese of Friebourg, Switzerland. The society was basically gifted the land and buildings in Econe later, as Abp Marcel Lefebvre never did anything without signs of divine providence. He was looking for a place to establish a permanent location for his seminarians when God provided this location for him.

[@marcusm359]

1:13:06 they kept delaying the date and that’s when he realized they weren’t going to hold to the agreement

[@lorddevonshire6382]

Interesting discussion. Thank you. I want to say something from my own personal experience as regards the apostolic visitation of the SSPX at the end of 1987. At that time, I was a teacher at an SSPX school in the south of France, named Saint-Joseph des Carmes. Mgr Camille Perl visited the school (he and Cardinal Perl divided the visits between them) and we welcomed him warmly. In the evening, Mgr Perl himself gave the Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament in the school chapel, with the entire school present. Afterwards, he gave a talk (sermon?) to us in the chapel. He expressed his great satisfaction with the work we were doing. The words I was particularly struck by were: 'Continuez sur ce bon chemin' ('Continue on this good path'). As a Catholic, I was always uncomfortable about the canonically irregular position of the Society, even though I was fully committed to its work. I was reassured by the portrait of the Holy Father Pope John Paul II on the wall in the teachers' dining room, but what really gave me heart were the wonderful words of Mgr Perl. All I had heard from the Church authorities until then was venom, condemnation and condescension. Rest In Peace and thank you, Mgr Camille Perl.

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Our next livestream is an open forum. Submit your questions here and we'll answer them next Tuesday, May 23rd at 10:00 am: insidethevatican.com/30-years-the-untold-stories/

[@agrarian_peasant]

Thank you to Fr. Murr and to Mr. Moynihan for this very candid and beautiful conversation!

[@HansertHohberg]

I enjoy those talks very much! I also listen to every podcast Fr Murr is on; he is such a font of wonderful and wise stories, and he and Robert Moynihan complement each other so well. I wish you both a blessed Easter! I will attend as many holy masses as possible but not watch or listen to anything from a certain person in a certain city.

[@bonniebowen3390]

Greetings from California. Blessings and gratitude!

[@ninaluz8710]

May your guardian angels guide and protect you all the days of your lives. Praying for “mighty shepherds” as requested by Pope B16. The Triumphant Church intercede and pray for us🙏🙏🙏

[@armidaescareno3923]

God bless you Fr. Murr and thank you for guiding us through these confusing times❤

[@annmariebudyn]

I gind these talks to be very informative and interesting. As a "Cradle Catholic " now 67 years there is no way I would otherwise have known about the subjects of which you speak. I happened to be living in Paris at tge time of Lefebre and I met a Canadian woman who was reporting on the situation at the time. It's only now and through listening to you that I have a modicum of understanding of what was going on in the Church at that time. Thank you for sharing your great first hand knowledge, it's greatly appreciated.

[@elainemacias6516]

1:21:02 This is Elaine in Chicago, keep doing the shows! They are very interesting and I learn a lot about church history as well as the current topics you discuss. God bless you both!

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you!

[@maggiesace389]

💜 Marcel LeFebvre 💜

[@jocelynyared2150]

You cannot compare Padre PIO and Archb.Lefebvre. Lefebvre had to think for the Whole Church's future; Padre PIO was a personal test of holiness.

[@michellelococo4023]

Greetings Gentlemen From the Midwest of USA I look forward to each and every discussion! It is informative and inspiring. It feels as though we are all sitting together having a sincere conversation. The “ramblings” make it so heartfelt and authenticate. Wishing all a Blessed Holy Week. Safe travels Dr. Moynihan.

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you for watching! Have a blessed Holy Week!

[@marcusm359]

This was a very fine episode!

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you for watching!

[@lomaszaza7142]

​​@@urbietorbicommunications We understand this is a series of talks with Don Murr but on this particular subject (and more as a matter of fact) you should have interview Bishop Richard Williamson while he is still alive. And thank you for turning off that beeb sound :) God bless you. May you continúe to give us fine interview such as this. Pax

[@johnholmes6667]

St. Athsnasius and even St.Joan of Arc had been excommunicated at one point.

[@ssoldie5490]

Thank God daily for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre/ Bishop Antoni de Castro Mayer. F.S.S.P.X.

[@KenDelloSandro7565]

1:15:27 with all the honor, esteem and respect that's due to the Reverend Don Carlo, I'm almost positive that His Excellency Monsignor Lefebvre lost trust in Cardinal Ratzinger over a broken promise in the past and that's why he didn't trust Rome. It's been documented either in Lefebvre's biography and/or one of the historical books on the foundation of the sspx. If I'm wrong then please forgive me. +Monsignor M.Lefebvre, ora pro nobis. Amen.

[@LUIS-ox1bv]

Rome was giving this elderly, true son of the Church, the run around. Their treatment of him was shameful, when one considers his entire life had been dedicated to the Church. Rome could afford to sit around and wait for the Archbishop, and his movement to die.

[@thomasholmes341]

Please keep these discussions going. They are very interesting and they explain a lot about our church history and faith. Thank you and may God bless both of you.

[@matthewcauthorn9731]

All that can really be said,and I mean this quite seriously is. God help us!

[@dinaandrade5415]

A very correct way of thinking for sure. Abp. Lefebvre was lead by the Holy Ghost. 'By their fruits you shall know them'. Abp. Lefebvre is a Saint. God makes Saints, not the pope.

[@antoniaswift3995]

Exceptional! Fr. and Robert. Happy Easter to you both and we wait anxiously for your next talk. God Bless you both.

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you!

[@adrianazalcedworak1814]

Thank you so much to both of you. I am always looking forward to your talks.

[@Herdingcats1917]

Hello from Montreal! I love listening to you both as I jigsaw puzzle! I just finished reading Windswept House. Fr Murr’s book Murder in the 33rd degree is next. I greatly appreciate these discussions of yours. They shed so much light.

[@anaschlosser919]

Please keep speaking the Truth we need it and its blessings Father Murr and Yourself are I believe is truly blessed. You are being called for this action. God be with you both.

[@gentz8310]

Great channel. Deo Gratias

[@billkolb1305]

Great discussion! Thank you.

[@josvermeulen6191]

HUGE fan of this channel! Greetings from Belgium!

[@makaliofidow531]

Good afternoon from Christchurch, New Zealand

[@se9428]

Wouldn’t miss an episode of your analysis! Blessings from Western Montana.

[@anaschlosser919]

I am just learning about SSPX, where can i learn more about this Oder. I am fascinated by it. I love Father Murr shares the Truth and that is what our CHURCH SHOULD BE BUILT ON.

[@davecharette9773]

I thoroughly enjoy your discussions and please continue to follow your current format. I've learned a lot from your informative conversations . All the best to you. May God bless you both!

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you!

[@johnholmes6667]

With Vatican II, sacraments we’re changed. Prayers of exorcism were removed from z baptism. Friday abstinence dropped along with observing fasting before receiving Communion. Regular Confession, adoration and the rosary. and devotionals 48:05 downplayed. No more Amber Days. Radical ecumenism. Lack of ofide in bring 51:25 51:30 Catholic. Watch Fr Mark Beard’s homilies which are being viewed posthumously.. On the Fence” reminds us to be proudly Catholic!!!!

[@johnholmes6667]

Lack of pride in being Catholic which ox the true faith

[@claramitchell7774]

Thank you, great conversation, please keep it up.

[@urbietorbicommunications]

More to come!

[@dianebelanger7056]

These talks are delightful and thoughtful. Please don’t change thing. The spontaneity and meandering only enhance the feeling of listening to very thoughtful minds.

[@urbietorbicommunications]

Thank you for listening!

[@johnmorgan4313]

The Novus Ordo Missae is the LITURGICAL Tower of Babel. 🌴

[@javaman8895]

Yeah recall the tower was built to reach God by people who spoke a common language and God intervened. The TLM for too long was a fossil that the laity were estranged from worship. We are now dealing with the aftermath of abuses and scandals on both sides. So called rad trads are no better than looney libs.

[@zalobo]

PRAY, PRAY, PRAY FOR THE TRUE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST !!!

[@charmiemael460]

Thanks you both for speaking The Truth🙏➕🛐🔥📖🧡🕊🧡💐🇻🇦

[@BDPaul1]

Love your talks, between you both great wisdom abides!

[@tradmama9201]

I’m following your program and enjoying the content. The question that prompted this program was not answered after an hour & 21 minutes. I have heard plenty of opinions from laity. Still waiting for a solid answer.

[@muztan3100]

Please enlighten us with the question unanswered...

[@leungho8235]

"Deep Church" was also coined by Archbishop Vigano in one of his letters.

[@johnholmes6667]

Read A Voice in the Wilderness, a collector lectures, essays and letters of Absp. Vigano. on the Church, the US and the World. Absp Zvigsmo knows and loves the USA as he served as papal nuncio to the US but Pope Francis “fired” the dear Absp. because he arranged a visit with Kim Davies, a clerk who spent time in prison because she refused to issue “marriage” certificates for homisex. Her Vhristosn sensibilities were disturbed. Pope Francis was more interested in honoring homosexuality and his concern for “global warming” which is a socialistic hoax toward depopulation and global redistribution of wealth.

[@leungho8235]

@@johnholmes6667 thank you. I agree absolutely.

[@Catholictradition516]

I’d love to hear both of your opinions on Malachi Martin. Also, has Fr. Murr read Fr. Martin’s faction work, Vatican.

[@seamusweber8298]

Through the grace of God, I was fortunate to be educated by the Holy Ghost Fathers by men formed and ordained under the leadership of Marcel Lefebvre. He was the head of the congregation. The men who taught me were holy men and great examples to us. Ive only come to really realise this as I get older.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

Sad to see all the ignorance and presumption regarding the SSPX on this combox. God bless Archbishop Lefebvre and Fr Murr for defending him.

[@javaman8895]

There’s plenty of ignorance and presumption on both sides of the issue.

[@06rkave]

The CHURCH is always: * ONE (people that separate are outside the true Church) * HOLY (when we sin, we are actually not following her teachings, so we sin ourselfs not the Church) * CATHOLIC (for everyone) * APOSTOLIC (her members have the duty to anounce the Evangellium to the whole world)

[@Myohomoto]

Modernists tower of Babel😢

[@sylviacaldera6844]

You are right father Murr

[@sbasaras65]

Ave Maria🙏

[@susancan2939]

Maybe God will allow 3 people to die and come back to life and witness/proclaim that Bishop Lefebvre is in heaven so that Vatican will accept its wrong decision and will then proclaim Lefebvre a saint and accept his organization. If Vatican is so accepting of other religious organization then why can't they accept Lefebvre, it is all about egoism? It will take years as we know it will be in God's time, we just have to be patient as God wants that of humanity.

[@patrickjosephmorris444]

God Bless you both Patrick’s 5:13 5:24

[@patrickjosephmorris444]

He ordained 4 Bishops 15:18

[@MacheteMambi]

Robert: You need a new MIKE

[@claramitchell7774]

It is not just forms, it is the doctrine and worship of God. The Latin Mass is calvary. The NO is a meal not the sacrifice of Jesus to to God the Father

[@third_secret_of_fatima_1917]

Good discussion there would be NO Latin Mass if not for the Archbishop holding the line and sacrificing all

[@rosarosario1375]

I think what cause so much division is leaving the universal church... the rite handed by the church fathers..( one, Holy, catholic, church) latin was the universal language of the church. I think the church could still stick to the latin and have some exact translation to the language of that country... where celebrated.. 🙏🙏🙏 here for church unity in worship and in morals.

[@margaretmaryyoung6991]

JPII. BAD POPE! BENEDICT..BAD POPE!

[@johnholmes6667]

Wojtyla and Ratzinger walked into Vatican II as Modernists, Tatzinger his business suit.!

[@guadalupemieryteran106]

Thank you, can you explain what happened to the real Sister Lucia of Fatima,please.

[@johnholmes6667]

I understand that Bsp. Marcel LeFebvre’s mom was a stigmatist. Joe awesome!

[@johnpatrick1827]

Did the Church not set up the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter, The Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest and Le Bon Pasteur? Three thriving traditional orders of traditional priests.

[@muztan3100]

Only because of the pressure the existence of the FSSPX put on Rome to offer a counter/alternative. Without the FSSPX the Ecclesia Dei group would have never come into existence... Simply a matter of history.

[@javaman8895]

Has anyone considered the “offspring” of Lefebvre? You have splintered groups like the SSPV, SSPX Resistance, SSPX Marian Consecration, countless independent priests and chapels, all claiming they are carrying on the mission of their founder.

[@bedrosnersesyan6975]

Lah Fev rah

[@jetc4332]

mmm, I am not sure, I hope Lefebvre is in heaven, but disobeying an express order by the Pope is a very serious offense for a religious

[@margaretmaryyoung6991]

STOP calling Archbishop Lefebvre by his last name!😡

[@ixtoc999]

LEFEBVRE WAS A BRAVE PRELATE, raised up immediately. YOU TOOK 50 YEARS TO speak half truths. YOU ARE NOT SINCERE. TELL THE WHOLE TRUTh, Father MURR.

[@fragilechrissy]

Marcel Lefevvre thought he was cleverer than St.Paul John 2 and Cardinal Ratzinger in 1988.And this was really a bad idea from him.The church would stand much better today if he would have obied St.John Paul 2. This pope loved the old mass also himself!

[@Fred-qe5dl]

SSSPX supporters here should listen to John Salza on this matter...Fr Murr said it right,Cdl Ratzinger was ooking at it DOCTRINALLY!!! Now the question is what doctrine?

[@pascendi88]

Listened to Salza, he makes out his opinions are doctrines while he’s got no Church authority isn’t a theologian or a canon lawyer. Lacks charity & is divisive.

[@Fred-qe5dl]

@@pascendi88 a lot of people do not understand Saint Thomas explanation of different level of laws. We have the divine law, the natural law, the ecclesiastical law and the civil law. Lefevre violated ecclesiastical law and proclaimed that the church lost its faith and prohibits its members crom participating in the novus Ordo. So b by repeatedly disobeying the pope he proclaimed himself pope…and up to thus day SSPX has not obeyed the authority of the pope regardless of material heretical views held by the present pope, now if that is not schism then define what schism is

[@Fred-qe5dl]

@@pascendi88 another thing too… never heard any adherents of SSPX validly refutes Salzas talking points

[@muztan3100]

Salza looks at the canon law strictly writ at large as a pharasaical mind (on purpose, from what I can gather). He completely ignores the whole of canon law and the understanding of the mind of the legislator, which OBVIOUSLY is intended toward the good of the Church and the salvation of souls as the supreme law! (This is why Jesus constantly criticized the pharisees) Many, many times in history the Church dealt with emergency situations, where the standard rule of positive law had to be jettisoned temporarily until normalcy was restored. The excommunication of St Athanasius and the Arian heresy is the most immediate and direct comparison, and even in more recent times many groups such as the Jesuits during their suppression, Franciscans during their organization, etc., taught and preached and brought the sacraments to needy souls with no canonical status/mission from the Pope or local bishop. Now we happen to be living during the greatest crisis in the history of the Church. The apostolic leaders are nearly to the man intent on bringing modernist heresies to the forefront of Church doctrine, destroying her from the inside out. Enter one man and one small group of priests who declare that a state of emergency exists, even as Cardinal Roche publicly verifies that a new theology of the Church has been instituted, and that the supreme canon law of the church is in effect that she supplies her jurisdiction directly and canonical equity must be leaned on, until the crisis is averted. Any canon lawyer seeking the truth would easily understand the positive law must be seen in light of the situation and mind of the legislator, in which the Church grants the society priests the canonical mission they need to attend to souls as they need. One day things will be normalized and restored.

[@Fred-qe5dl]

@@muztan3100 well you are basically admitting that Rome is not the true Church…Dr Moynahan already set the tone of the conversation, the Catholic Church is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Any claim or justification by SSPX which I mostly agreed with except for disobedience and the charge that the Novus Ordo is a heretical mass even though LESS theologically sound is uncalled for. Vatican 2 though ran by modernist was still preserved by the Holy Spirit from error. Cdl Burke was the the head of highest Roman court and he said that SSPX is in schism. Any appeal to any canon lawyer when the SSPX refuse to acknowledge the authority of the pope is in schism, no matter how dubious that pope is. And please stop using St Athanasius with Lefevre, there is NO comparison between the two and the circumstances. Lefevre was an admirable person and he meant good, so did most heretics and schismatics who attacked the church. I hope to see the day that SPPX will return to the fold.

[@fragilechrissy]

Gods will was that Lefevbre should obey St.John Paul 2!!!! Lefevbre was so wrong!

[@chrisekstrom4614]

Rubbish