Stages of Progressive Christianity

[@michaelpfeiffer2787]

I love how half the comments are about the church and the others are complaining about the Minecraft gameplay in the background.

[@fury_blade9303]

He doesn’t even have Netherite gear bro

[@relajado-fx5rf]

@@fury_blade9303 might be an old version

[@user-em7ig3lk7l]

Proof that his plan worked

[@harry5326]

Bro literally doesn't take food on a trip far away from home base

[@GoldenRedder]

He has bread

[@L-P-V]

Pray to God for a better personal computer, this frame rate is heretic.

[@emperorraccoon2805]

Ikr 💀💀💀💀

[@knicechawt]

i think it's a problem with his recording software actually

[@tapooki]

@@knicechawtyeah ive been seeing his other videos its usually really smooth

[@Mohtellawi]

You could make a denomination out of this.

[@tapooki]

@@Mohtellawi lol

[@K00LSP00L]

I loved the slideshow!

[@DarthCiliatus]

Sometimes I forget what it's like playing at sub 10fps. I did it for years on a laptop with a first gen i3 and 4gb of ram. Now I have a R5 5600x and rtx 3070 with 32gb of ram and everything runs so smooth it's jarring to see framerates that low.

[@Jimpkin]

​@@DarthCiliatus I played on a 100$ laptop with a celorn and inter graded graphics. Now I play on a rx 6600 and a i5 12400

[@Hecuba39]

real

[@RavenholmZombie]

Bros playing Minecraft on a toaster 💀

[@seanjenkins6947]

Glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this, i thought I was buggin

[@fury_blade9303]

Lol

[@danyyilbun6736]

I mean, that's mine scraft

[@athiefinthenight6894]

brings me back to the good old days when my frame rate was like that.

[@emanueldelacruz1101]

It's the capture software

[@bryananderson458]

Don’t think you’re alone-as a theologically conservative working musician in the Episcopal Church, there are more people who share your beliefs and experiences than you might suppose within mainline churches.

[@cgottschify]

The same reason conservatives run away from churches is the same reason conservatives start shutting up in their churches-fear. So i wouldnt be surprised if he knew what you said already. One of the biggest impacts on fearful people who have not yet lost their convictions that can happen is for the more courageous to inspire them by simply speaking out loud and proud. Im still glad you said it tho. What you said can also inspire. People need community. A person believing there are persons in his own church who could support him is often the jumpstart a person needs for becoming more vocal and community-focused.

[@DFSLJC]

Then they need to act on the knowledge of the Truth God has revealed to them. If they stay quiet because they fear man more than God than they’d have been better off never having gotten involved in church at all then participate in something you know is destroying the family and the Faith and the country and leading to a Noahic final judgment. It’s a big deal.

[@jamesaustin1988]

Same here! I don't know about the Presbyterian Church USA, but there are so many wonderful orthodox parishes (and a few dioceses!) in the Episcopal Church that are worth fighting for.

[@crowe6961]

@@jamesaustin1988 Presbyterian reporting, comparable situation over here. We have a distinct split between the conservative and progressive factions, there's plenty that's more or less intact.

[@jamesaustin1988]

@@mateopribyl9218 No thanks.

[@MeatEatingVegan777]

I'm a new Christian. I have guilt over people that claimed to be Christian, and scared others off from the faith. Overall, Christianity is a beautiful, truthful faith that I'm proud of. I have positive feelings about it. It's the bad christians and weak, deceitful pastors that I have negative feelings towards.

[@_dimitri_1242]

The god in the bible is an alien called enlil. He wanted to make the existing hominids take over his work so, he modified them into the modern human. That is where Adam and eve come from. Enlil's brother, Enki, added an essence to our DNA that can make us better than anyone in the galaxy, but only if we realize it. So he "tricked Adam and eve to "eat the fruit" which made them understand they are more than slave test subjects. Enlil ofcourse got upset and now hates us so much that he demonized Enki and created the bible to keep humans scared of him so that we are ok with working our whole lives and die. And of course you go to hell for sure! Unless you live in fear of him, only then will you go to heaven.

[@thundermarisol]

PREACH! I feel the same way. I don't like how many “Christians” have given us such a bad reputation…

[@FlyingAlfredoSaucer]

Being ashamed of some Christians isn't the same as being ashamed of Christianity. Of course some Christians don't act as they should and do push others away, but that isn't Christianity's fault, it is the fault of those individuals, so that doesn't count as real Christian guilt.

[@jhoughjr1]

Righteous indignation is the term I think for that feeling

[@jhoughjr1]

Knights of St Nicholas when?

[@Jimpkin]

I once went to a Presbyterian church with lgbtq flags and a gay pastor. The whole sermon was about how much God loves you and Harry potter

[@thelostnoob67]

so basicly blasphemy

[@Jimpkin]

@TheLostNoob not really this was a few years ago when I was 8 and besides the pastor being gay and the weird Harry potter stuff from what I remember besides that it was fine

[@teamtundra2619]

@@thelostnoob67 lol nah

[@crowe6961]

Meanwhile, the time before last that I went to a Presbyterian church, they had one of their hymns in Ecclesiastical Latin and were being very Jesus-y, focusing on His suffering and the degree of sacrifice as evidence of God loving us. The flags in the sanctuary were Byzantine violet, with a Ukrainian one outside for sentiment's sake. The sermon focused on how God can seem cruel, but one cannot forget that he sees what you do, and feels the same grief that you do when tragedy strikes. They're kind of all over the place.

[@sladetuner8661]

What the hey?

[@thattimestampguy]

*Stage 1* 2:50 Christian Guilt - Feeling like Christianity as a whole has been bad 4:12 Progressive Christianity 6:28 *Stage 2* 6:55 Disordered Focus *Stage 3* 9:17 Scriptural Denial *Stage 4* 13:53 Explicit Heresy 15:53 Explicit Denial of Resurrection, Denial of The Trinity, is Heresy *Stage 5* 16:55 Essential Agnosticism

[@vondas1480]

I'm happy to see so many embracing reality (:

[@RexoryByzaboo]

Thank you.

[@avaglynn1]

Username checks out 👏🏼👏🏼

[@plagueday5395]

​@@vondas1480 Lies lol.

[@Arowrath]

I find I'm far too progressive for my conservative friends and far too conservative for my progressive friends. I feel really reading the Bible and following Jesus' teaches pretty firmly smashes any attempt I have to adhere to a strictly "liberal" or "conservative" tradition. We all have our biases and want to bend God into our political/lifestyle shaped boxes but he calls us to something higher. I feel the biggest thing missing from any and every church I've gone to is a focus on the grace of God. Progressives lump the concept of grace in with the love of God and in the process somewhat ignore the need for forgiveness. Conservatives acknowledge it often in passing while still placing most of their emphasis on rigid rule following and behavior management, thereby missing the beauty and depth of God's incredible grace and mercy.

[@marsship921]

Honestly, i think reality is wired to always have conflict, it's impossible to have a balance between conservativism and liberalism. Right now i feel like people finally stopped tolerating the crazy people, but i am hearing the "woman don't deserve rights more and more again", so. F

[@kisslena]

I appreciate your comment and hold similar beliefs in my Christian walk. The subject of grace is one that has the most to offer for a broken and traumatized world after this pandemic that we’ve all experienced. I think the main issue of relevance is that church leaders will not leave their silos to form collaborative efforts in their communities. The Message IS God’s Grace is sufficient. Received by accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and learning from the level of discipleship that He Instructed during His earthly ministry. That will cover a multitude of sin and pain redeeming people to leading lives of service for God’s Kingdom. All of the tenets of Jesus’ words and actions. We ARE “Christians” correct? But Christianity is now a business so there is a level of competitiveness and profiteering along with entrenched dogma. It’s damaging our witness, but not changing God’s Plans which we will never truly know or understand. That’s why we believe by faith because without it, it’s impossible to be in God’s Will. So I said a lot and since I too am not a Bible scholar or trained theologian my comments are based on my discernment. I was raised in the A.M.E. church and I’m currently serving in a Pentecostal nondenominational ministry.

[@amberharmsen2497]

you do realize jesus was litterally a socialist

[@SunIsLost]

Yea

[@MrKaiRobinson]

I’m curious where the Bible differs from conservatism?

[@IIBloodXLustII]

My "negative" response when it comes to the hearing "Christian" is when it comes to "Christian" media and "Christian" homes. Generally Christian media is just bad and turns people a way more than it brings them in. And when people say that they grew up in a Christian home I kind of cringe, because this is either going to be a good story of how they had a truly Christian upbringing in a wholesome family that taught true Christianity and values... or their dad brought out the belt for saying "Dang" or "Crap".

[@Hen_von_Amis]

You strike way to close to home but yeah However today's Christian media is better like superbook or the chosen

[@renhaiyoutube]

Wdym? Christian rock music is extremely good (like Skillet or TFK or Nine Lashes)

[@IIBloodXLustII]

@@renhaiyoutube I mean, I guess all art is subjective and to each their own. I like Theocracy, Saviour Machine, and a few others, but I find most Christian music, particularly mainstream music, to be uninteresting at best.

[@renhaiyoutube]

@@IIBloodXLustII I literally grew up with Christian rock music (I'm Orthodox by the way)

[@justhair17]

While I do not have a negative association with the word 'Christian', I feel like American protestants have given it a very bad reputation, so when someone asks about my religion, I always go more specific and just say Im a Catholic

[@MJQueen9]

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” 2 Timothy 3:4 KJV

[@lianlearns]

Fun fact: the pastor who was kicked out of the PC USA for not ordaining women was actually my uncle (he was pretty cool)

[@vondas1480]

lol

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

wow actually?

[@lianlearns]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 I'm assuming - because the story is the same (although I suppose there could be multiple of the same story and you were referring to someone else) He went on to be a Bible and philosophy professor at Belhaven University after that happened. So yeah - yep - actually Pretty cool (btw I love your videos, they're great)

[@idromano]

I'm sorry about that

[@martinmay1178]

I'm a Baptist and nearly every Baptist I meet is stage one or less. Also I agree 100% with your 95 theses

[@sergeantspear4212]

I too am Baptist and all Baptists I know are definitely not higher than stage one.

[@zebu2294]

every baptist church i have ever been to has been about as conservative as you can get. i do live in the Midwest so that may help.

[@jaredcaldwell4270]

@@zebu2294 If I recall, the largest sects (I guess you can say) of Baptism are extremely conservative though sadly, Liberalism like the cancer that is has infected some sects of Baptism too to where you have Progressive Baptist Churches which makes about as much sense as the existence of the Conservative Communist Coalition, lol.

[@zebu2294]

@@jaredcaldwell4270 I do recall my pastor back in my home town mentioning that the baptist organization for the state was gradually "tolerating" some things that did not align with the bible. i have known someone from all the churches i have attended and i suppose that makes it a lot less likely for me to have run into a mushy gooshy non gospel focused church.

[@ihavespoken9871]

I'm a baptist and I don't think I have ever met a liberal baptist before, but that might be because I live in the south

[@nothanks237]

most surreal youtube video ive ever seen

[@SantaFe19484]

The first time I saw railroad tracks in church.

[@Logan912]

The Holy Locomotive

[@SunIsLost]

Nice! /)

[@MeglynLad]

Just found your channel and watched a few videos. Now I'm planning to binge listen all day tomorrow.

[@AnInterestingStory]

Did you do it?

[@danyyilbun6736]

I am doing it

[@Joao-hm5dp]

Sending prayers from Brazil :/ Even tho we have to learn a lot and we have a very few people who get explicitly heretical in their churches, the most of them actually take the scriptures and the christian basis very seriously. Hearing you talk made me feel there are a lot of messed up speeches and a very disoriented church overall in the USA. Stay good man! Your content is really nice :)

[@wesley.3250]

Prazer em achar um conterraneo aqui! fique com Deus.

[@Joao-hm5dp]

@@WangLin-jt8pj Cara aqui no sul infelizmente já vi algumas igrejas que apoiam o pecado da homossexualidade, com bandeiras e discursos bem liberais teologicamente.

[@icarojose6316]

Os católicos podem ser bem desinformados e esquerdistas mas a igreja católica nunca que muda sua teologia para trazer esquerdismo.

[@moist_blue]

I’m a pretty Catholic follower of Christ but I think gay people are okay,so long as you’re not hurting anyone. I’ve looked a lot into the scriptures and what their original writings are and honestly even if we follow Christ we shouldn’t be hateful ever. You can view homosexuality or transexuality as a sin but you can’t judge damn others over it if there’s no true injustice,that’s why god is there to judge them. Main goal of being a Christian is to spread the word of god and his love. Wisdom and kindness are the way.

[@emanueldelacruz1101]

Do laying is Ok if I'm not hurting anyone? This people are nuts

[@moist_blue]

@@emanueldelacruz1101 I’d love to understand what you’re saying,your grammar seems to be below that of a 7 year old,could you type your comment again but properly so I can read it?

[@floridaman318]

@@moist_blue >judge not >Proceeds to insult someone for mistakes in their comment

[@moist_blue]

@@floridaman318 not insulting,it’s a factual statement with a proper comparison. I was also genuinely asking. And why do you type like “me>fart>yeah”

[@floridaman318]

@@moist_blue it's a way of expressing contrast.

[@rainbowlegend8567]

You speak so well! More people need to hear what you have to say! ✝

[@kapitankapital6580]

"God loves you is not the Gospel" man what Bible have you been reading? "God so loved the world"? "Love one another as I have loved you"? "Love thy neighbour"? Love is absolutely the central theme of the Gospel, Christ's sacrifice and Resurrection was a proof of God's love "Greater love hath no man," remember? We are supposed to love God and one another in the same way that God loves us, that is literally the most important lesson in the whole of Christianity, as said by Jesus himself.

[@kemi1223]

Yes, that's true. God's love is the central theme of the gospel and the bible, but it isn't the gospel in it's entirety. God's love isn't just I love you so much but I love you so much that I can't let you continue in sin and allow you to live by your sinful nature. So yeah, in our culture that definition of love isn't usually what they're referring to so it is very important to highlight the other part of the gospel that talks about sin and human nature. That means just telling someone God loves them doesn't actually present the gospel fully especially if they do not have this understanding of God's love...it's a great way to start but it isn't the whole gospel so that's what he means when he says "God loves you isn't the gospel". The gospel must be presented in it's entirety for it to actually be called the gospel. Cheers ✨

[@alangeorge5933]

@@kemi1223 Yep, 100% correct. "So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.” And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.” Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter." - Rev 10:9-10. We cannot pick and choose what we take from the bible, we must take the bitter with the sweet.

[@zhalosc]

they all read different bibles because christianity has no consistancey

[@countryjoe3551]

"God loves you" is definitely not the Gospel. Have you never read Romans chapter 1:16-32?

[@TerrariumDiscoveryGamingMore]

Bro called focusing on love and justice "Disordered" Literally rolling rn🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣

[@realhighduck]

Music student, relatively conservative protestant/Sola Scriptura Christian, zoomer, plays minecraft on a potato? Dude, am I your clone?

[@Cbev1994]

So originally I had guilt because I was exposed to a lot of the pain and suffering others have felt in the name of Christianity. But in my experience I’m starting to wonder if there’s just a general lack of wisdom across the board between conservatives and progressive. Tie that in with the now all or nothing stances in both camps and we are getting horrifyingly further and further from the example of Christ. There’s room for compassion and understanding without warping and diluting the gospel

[@Porook]

Christ tells us to embody the same unconditional love that god holds for all of his creation. Most people on both sides of the spectrum do not truly understand the scripture.

[@SunIsLost]

I hope Synode 2024 will solve that.

[@SunIsLost]

@@Porook true

[@SunIsLost]

@@Porook that means loving Liberals, Conservatives, Homophobes, Transphobes, Trans Rights Advocates and Gay Rights Advocates, etc. It means to love ALL and to love our ENEMIES, there's even a Bible quote talking about that.

[@MaddogMartinez]

@@SunIsLostChristians trying to be normal when they hear that you have to treat everyone with respect or decency even gays: 🗿 but what uhhh ummm

[@plagueday5395]

I was ashamed of being a Christian. After learning how extraordinarily good the Church and Christianity have been to the world throughout history, I have never felt this way again. It also helped socializing with other brothers and sisters through real life and the internet to see that Christianity has led some people to become very great people, despite the modern media wanting to portray us as backward or inferior. It was such a satisfying moment to see these lies crumble off my shoulders.

[@lemokemo5752]

Inside my Lutheran State Church, I'm super Conservative, when talking to European Confessional Lutherans, I'm a moderate. When I'm talking to American Confessional Lutherans, I'm a super lib hippie.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Interesting. Can you explain more? Like how would you be liberal in their eyes?

[@lemokemo5752]

@Redeemed Zoomer, sorry for the late response. I am a lib in their eyes because: even though I am not in favour of female clergy, I accept the Communion (with a female celebrant Priest) as a valid sacrament, it is his body and blood. It is still Christ's doing, not hers. I also hold to an Old Earth Creation and Theistic Evolution. I am indifferent to whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin. The virgin birth is what I hold to.

[@lemokemo5752]

I am super Conservative in my "home field" because I oppose same sex marriage in Church, prefer non-female clergy, I prefer a very high church mass (liturgy with incense and the old Swedish Church prayers), against all theological interfaith initiatives (not ecumenism with Christians) etc etc

[@fury_blade9303]

@@lemokemo5752 Wait people other than Catholics have Transubstantiation?

[@lemokemo5752]

@@fury_blade9303 Lutherans have consubstantiation

[@IIBloodXLustII]

Can we laugh that there is a witch living in the basement of the church at the beginning of this video?

[@timnewton50]

Bro what are your video settings? They look like they need optimised

[@Shadowbard379]

Man as a Catholic, I empathize with so much of what you said at the end. You’re going through the same thing we went through in the 60s and 70s with seminary infiltration and the ones who could have done something running away from the real issues and hiding behind something trivial. When you say “evangelical” I can easily substitute “traditionalists” or more appropriately Latin purists. It’s a cycle that goes back a long way. Every splintering of the faith back to and beyond Martin Luther running away from explaining himself to Rome and starting his own church and many, many wars. 🙃 Overall an interesting video and something we all need to guard against.

[@RemandtheRobots]

He didn't run, he was kicked out. If he hadn't have went into hiding they would have killed him. He didn't start his own church, he restored the catholic church and the papists rejected it

[@jaidengabriel1675]

Luther got kicked out, he initially just wanted to reform the church (95 theses was written in Latin and not meant to go public!) So saying he started his own church isn't entirely correct.

[@michaeltorres1263]

What was "seminary infiltration?" I am genuinely curious, so if you could explain with some suggestions for further reading that would be great, brother.

[@draydenschrader7590]

I agree with most of what you said but I'm not sure saying someone who deeply cared about the Catholic church and was excommunicated only for people to follow them and still go to churches anyways was just "running away" is an accurate depiction of church history.

[@jhoughjr1]

TLM is timeless ad orientum is proper .

[@peopleskingdomofwolcottia]

I once said this when I was an atheist: "I'd much rather hear an evangelical Christian tell me to go to hell than Hillary Clinton tell me that she doesn't believe in hell."

[@ElliottWong2024]

Wait, Hillary doesn't believe in hell?

[@AverageRiverOtter-gm4zh]

If we can agree that god is omnibenevolent (and omniscient) then surely god doesn’t hate LGBTQ. Lots of Christians I know do support them, and that doesn’t make them any less Christian.

[@gtothereal]

Yeah it does.

[@EzeBall1710]

Its condemned stop coping

[@goose_president5504]

​​@@EzeBall1710The Pope would like to disagree with you on that. He literally called trans women daughters of God

[@EzeBall1710]

@goose_president5504 nice try but if you were actually catholic you would know that the pope is the anti-pope so by that heresy alone he is not fit to be pope. If you truly want to learn more go on search Vatican II exposed

[@rusluck6620]

let me elaborate God loves the lgbtq community. Lets be real He does not affirm them though

[@PhantomObiWan]

hearing this over minecraft definitely gives a unique feeling

[@SunIsLost]

It's more casual style, which I love.

[@SunIsLost]

We don't always have to have serious setting when talking about serious topics, we can play games while talking about serious stuff.

[@ScovellsRock]

I just attended a meeting at my church. They’re wanting to leave the UMC. This real sad what is going on today. I really miss the good days when people decided that they weren’t Christian and simply left the church.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

you gotta encourage them to stay and fight!

[@emanueldelacruz1101]

​@@redeemedzoomer6053 Their job is not to save a denomination. Their job is to preach the gospel

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

@@emanueldelacruz1101 You preach the gospel by making sure a denomination stays gospel-centered and not given over to those who deny the gospel!

[@emanueldelacruz1101]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 Apostle Paul would probably say otherwise

[@nazunasapostle1stapostleof755]

​@@emanueldelacruz1101read Galatians and you will see zoomer's statement is fully aligned with what the Bible says. Apostle Paul wrote the letter to the church in Galatia to warn them of the false teachers trying to preach their distorted version of the gospel. Paul basically tell's the church of Galatia to keep the church centered on the true gospel of grace and salvation instead of allowing the false teachers to enter the church (essentially handing the church over to people who do deny the true gospel)

[@MO-bo2du]

I feel like in my life I've been all 5 of these stages at various times. Happy to be lower on your spectrum these days though :)

[@icarojose6316]

Me too man, I was a hardcore atheist to the point I would debate online and even convince that God didn’t exist. I used to think I was super smart and most people were dumb, I remember watching Stephen Hawkins documentary about how he would prove that God didn’t create the universe by saying: with the creation of the universe, it was also the creation of time, because time and space are just one thing according to Einstein Relatively, and so God didn’t create the Universe, because God didn’t have time to create the universe. I was ready to believe that Nothing could create everything than to believe that was an atemporal, spaceless and immaterial being that would create the time, space and matter. At some point, I got so into investigating everything that I started to realize that things started to make less and less sense and more and more faith I was requiring to be an atheist, to the point that I decided to pretend that God existed for the sake of an argument, and I decided to investigate Christianity history and I understood that everything I thought I knew about Christianity was either false or misinterpreted on purpose. From that point Christianity started to make more and more sense to me, philosophically even before finding out historical evidence for Christianity, I was already fully sure Christianity was true because I stated to see Gods signs the more and more I was studying christianity and Jesus life.

[@SunIsLost]

@@icarojose6316 God bless you for finding Him

[@anniacal676]

"Most people disagree with me, I don't care. I think I'm right, deal with it." Way to admit your distinct lack of wisdom in a single quip.

[@strafe155]

Wisdom is knowledge gained from real life experiences, and I can testify to the fact that the man is generally correct in his description of the stages of apostasy for "progressive Christians". Dismissing the mans argument based on a single quip shows that you have a distinct lack of Wisdom yourself.

[@schizoposting]

"I need other people to validate my opinions. I am very smart and confident btw."

[@calebneff5777]

Where do you live? I find it interesting what you consider “mainline” Christian and think that it is so progressive. I live in the Midwest and VAST majority of churches are more on the baptist/Pentecostal/nondenominational spectrum. I’m talking like 95% plus. I have met maybe 30 Catholics who live in the Midwest in my whole life, and my cousin is the one and only progressive Christian I personally know.

[@michaelpfeiffer2787]

Mans starting a conversation like Palpatine

[@zero_gravity5861]

rural minnesota is chock full of catholics and lutherans from my experience; fairly even split between western german and nordic immigrants seems like it might be why, but I also differentiate between the midwest and the rust belt.

[@lincolnisnamedlincoln]

he said in a recent video he lives in new york city

[@acehackerxander08]

You would start getting eternally damned at Stage 3, because it's heresy to say that the Gospel is NOT the written word of God

[@TheStrangerSpeaks10]

If the conservative pastors are being kicked out of the mainline churches, how can you blame them for then going and starting evangelical churches?

[@NullVoid-rm7jm]

There are only 2 stages. Stage 1. Biblically accurate. Stage 2. Actual Satanism.

[@meriel5765]

I grew up catholic but I’m sort of agnostic right now. My grandma passed on recently, and her death has made me rethink my faith. I guess i’m struggling because I’m not a very conservative person, and have struggled with my sexuality(had sex with another woman), but I can’t deny what the bible says. I guess I can’t bring myself to return to full catholicism (in part out of guilt) but I can’t deny the feeling I get when I pray, or step inside a church. Not sure why Im commenting, just trying to process I think

[@tabsi2436]

Hey, I am a progressive christ from Presbyterian in Europe. And I really wanted to answer to you. Because you are already good. And when you love women than there's nothing wrong with that. I have actually many catholic friends, who don't believe homosexuality is evil. And I just want to tell you that God loves you, and don't hide yourselve, because you are wonderful just as you are. ❤

[@meriel5765]

@@tabsi2436 thank you:)

[@Keychain696]

If it helps, I've been a Christian my whole life. As I entered my teen years, I realized that I was gay -- something I never saw happening to me, of all people. For as long as I could remember, I always planned to grow up, marry a girl, and have a family, so finding out I wasn't attracted to girls at all really threw me off. At 17, I decided to live my life as a non-practocing homosexual since I believe that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Now, I lived in Oregon for 10 year, from 4th grade to when I was 19, and then I become a theater major in college, so I've been in very liberal environments all my life. Everyone I've ever gone to school with has usually been super left leaning and a lot of them have also identified as LGBTQ+. I can say first hand that choosing to be a part of a church rather than the queer community has left me feeling much more fulfilled and joyful in my life rather than choosing to be a part of the gay community. I genuinely believe God brings true happiness to people who follow him, so even though I likely won't ever date or get married, I still live my life in a way that's fullfilling. God's given me a lot of great friendships and support with getting through the rocky relationship I have with my family. All this to say, if you're struggling with your sexuality, even same sex attraction, that's an obstacle for other Christians too. You can't practice it when you join the faith, but choosing not to join just to keep it isn't worth it. God may change you in that way, but, like me, he may not. I hope this helps you!

[@LandonBell11]

I am Baptist, from Texas, Conservative.. and I am going to say what you probably wouldn't expect based on those pre-qualifiers. God loves you right where you are. Church is an emergency room for sinners and not a country club for saints. That being said.. two or more meeting in HIS name.. that's church. So sorry for your loss.

[@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5]

@@Keychain696Praise God for your faithfulness to our Lord, brother! We’re all struggling with something. Working out our salvation with fear and trembling. I can’t relate to same sex attraction, but I can relate to battling lust. I’m glad you choose a community of life to equip you for battle and encourage you to walk in the way of the Lord. Inspiring!

[@lnfiniteGamingYT]

My brother in Christ, fix your frame rate.

[@NinjaxPrime]

A focus on "love and justice" is not "disordered focus", it is Christian praxis. This was Christ's mission statement: “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” The greatest failure of the modern church is insisting that this message is only ever spiritual and not material when it is both. Salvation is critical, but if we are not working to make the world a more just and loving place then what evidence is there that we are animated by the Spirit of God and not mere self-righteousness? The example of Martin Luther King Jr. is instructive here: a devout Christian minister, a civil rights champion, and a socialist. A true Christian progressive. This idea that social justice is at best a distraction and that spiritual concerns are a Christian's only true concerns, together with the rise of "Prosperity Gospel" charlatans and fake miracle peddlers and reactionary fundamentalists, is a major reason- if not the primary reason- why the moral authority of the church has virtually disintegrated. It is a spiritual disease, and the White American Evangelical church in particular is riddled with it.

[@0NoOne1nParticular]

theres nothing wrong with making the world a better place & real Christians are not opposed to that. check out who do food drives/banks/homeless outreach programs/the plethora of charities. the world will never be a good place as hard as Christians try, because humanity is in a fallen state. but they try & will continue to do so, but trans drag story time, rioting to make white people pay reparations or forcing Christians to accept homosexuality & make their cakes/marry same-sex-couples is not "making the world a better place", and is the definition of self-righteousness, what progressive people get criticized all the time for; "virtue signaling". im sick of even hearing conservative people say the phrase it happens so much. Lastly, the person you chose as a "true" progressive Christian is laughable & very telling, why not the many other African American reverends? you chose the most generic & widely known one (i assume its the only one you know), who was also reputed to have some serious issues with alcohol, prostitution & you already mentioned that he was a communist, (as if it was a good thing ironically) which is pretty much one of the only governments systems explicitly and systematically atheistic.

[@TheEnmineer]

Definitely. Christ reformed Judaism to open it up to the gentiles as well as spreading significant philosophical concepts such as Stoicism and Altruism throughout the region. Even if you don't believe him to be the literal son of god (like the Muslims' don't) you cannot deny his existence and the effects he has had on the morality of the classical world. To deny classical liberal ideals it's place in the faith is tantamount to only seeing the surface of the religion and keeping only that hollow husk. Equality and ethical practice (loving thy neighbor in practice) is precisely the spirit of Christ's Teaching. I see in many churches nowadays, especially the so-called "fundamentalists" a critical deviation from his teachings. The catholics likely started this trend of perverting His teachings, but seeing as so many Christians do not act charitably, nor stoically in the face of adversity, it is safe to say that they don't have the holy spirit in their hearts, just blind devotion to the literal texts of the bible. (Which might I remind everyone are man-written memoirs of Christ's teachings, written for the people of their times [even if they have been revised by kings and translators over the years]).

[@pilotfg4612]

How is MLK socialist? And please stop promoting your political bs here

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@@pilotfg4612 he was, look it up -- it's pretty easy to verify

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

I think there's a weird overlap between progressive "social justice" Christians and hyper-conservative post-mill theonomists, in that each one teaches the necessity of bringing God's kingdom to earth in an authoritative way. Both seem to be more interested in using Christianity as a Trojan horse for their political ideals, however, than in practicing Christianity. You're right about this, but only sort of accidentally. The reason the Church must be both _material_ and _spiritual_ and not merely one or the other, is that _Jesus_ is both material and spiritual. Separating the soul from the body is called "death" - and an oppositional view of material things is called "gnosticism". The reason God gave us bodies in the first place is because our bodies tell his story. Heaven is not a place where angels play harps, sitting on clouds. It's a real, tangible place - a place you can physically go to. And while God isn't letting us take our cars, our houses, our money, or even our clothes with us - he is going to ressurect our _bodies_ .And that's also what the social justice crowd get wrong. They tend to make it a game of equalizing wealth - essentially turning covetousness into a virtue. That's not what God has in mind at all. But I disagree with you about why the "moral authority" of the church has disintegrated. It has a lot more to do with hypocrisy than anything else - it's really easy to poke holes in people's faith by watching what they do. And it's comepletely unfair to make it about race. What does that have to do with anything? I'll expand on this a little and give you my prescription for renewed "moral authority" - it starts with commitment to God at the personal level. Then it moves on to God-centered sexual morality, because that's the heart of the family and thus the heart of society. From there, it can lead to generous giving and other acts of mercy. But it has to start with getting sex right. Can you guess why? I've actually already mentioned it. God gave us bodies to tell his story. When we get sex wrong, we drastically distort our own view of God, let alone the world outside. And the wild thing is - the Christian sexual ethic isn't what people think. It isn't repressive, it isn't a starvation diet. It's better than the alternatives - it's the treasure they're looking for but can't find. And it's worth selling everything you have to go and buy.

[@KristinChoruby]

I used to edit the writings of a stage 5 "pastor" for work--he was NOT good for my blood pressure! In fact, he was one of the main reasons I eventually left that job. These days, I would have to refuse to work with him/help him spread his heresies altogether, but sadly I was in a "coasting" stage of my faith at the time, so I just kept biting my tongue and telling myself it wasn't my place. I never could figure out how that guy graduated from a seminary, because both his writing skills and his theological sophistication were second-grade-level, at best. Thanks to your video, now I know--it was the commies' fault! 😆

[@krizthecookingbeaner2567]

If I might ask ,what kind of job did you have that had you editing the writings of a pastor?

[@KristinChoruby]

@@krizthecookingbeaner2567 I was a freelance editor.

[@maisiedazee]

the stuff about communists came totally out of nowhere 😭

[@anglicanwingaling]

Great video, it was so awesome I fell out of my chair as soon as I tried to get up! Cheers!

[@Pau.aguiza]

Former progressive christian here (kinda still progressive? - especially considering your points - But I dont use that label anymore). Let me explain how progressive christianism brought me back to the faith. I was raised catholic, but never very orthodox. Eventually, we drifted away from practice and I became an atheist. Because of bad internet influences, I developed a big hate towards the Christian faith. Later, I also turned far left wing. But then, the KZbin algorithm recommended me a video explaining the gospels through a gnostic lense. After watching that video, I couldn't get the teaching of Jesus out of my head. I wanted to join other religions instead, as I had a bad opinion of the faith, but I eventually decided to start my cathequism process to complete my missing sacraments in the Roman Catholic Church. It was a lot of going back and forth. There was a lot of internal fighting within myself, but I now can consider myself pretty orthodox, specially considering that I'm a lesbian. (I know many of you are very conservative on this subject, so I just want to make clear this: I'm not up for debate. I've already made up my mind on the subject. I'm not only affirming because of scientific research, but also because of my own experience as a gay person. So I ask you to, please, not try to convince me that homosexuality/acting on it is a sin. I also know what the Church's stand on homosexuality is, I've read the cathequism and I love doing so. I also don't need you to cite me verses of the bible, as I know those verses, they won't convince me otherwise - I can literally give you my point of view on it, even if it's not "canon" in the Church's beliefs, but I really have no intention to convince you. I also don't need you to pray for me because of this. If you will pray for me anyways, I can't really stop you, can I? but don't ask me for permission and, please, don't tell me you will do it. So yeah, basically that, if you want to respond to this, please don't speak about homosexuality or gender. I don't mind you having your, according to me wrong, beliefs, please don't mind me having MY, according to you wrong, beliefs). I still have some progressive views, but those are mostly because I consider some thing forms of discrimination. I can't stand FOR discrimination and be christian at the same time. But I totally get what you're saying. The thing that attracted me to progressive Christianity was how worried about social justice it was, but as I was instructed in the faith, I realized how it neglected the thing that makes Christianity... Christianity. Like, it's fine if your religion pushes you towards social justice, but it doesn't mean your religion IS social justice. I could've literally been an atheist and I could've still been considered a good christian according to it. A big part of being a christian is performing acts of charity and standing up for others, but we shouldn't forget WHY we do it. The whole point of our faith is the resurrection, if Christ didn't raise from the dead, then our faith is meaningless. I don't judge those who assist churches where they preach about LGBT+/Women/BIPOC rights, but I wouldn't assist a church like that. When we go to church we don't go to hear about that, although it can be mentioned and discussed, but to hear about the teaching's of God. To grow on faith. To participate on the sacrifice of our Lord. There is no Christianity without Jesus and his resurrection, the can be social justice without it tho. That's why we can't lose focus on the dogmas of the faith. I also totally get what you said about christian guilt. When I first started converting, I felt ashamed of calling myself a christian. But that's not right! That's literally being ashamed of following Jesus! I have learned that you can be critical of the Church's history of corruption (in my case because I'm catholic) and still be proud of your faith. After all, Jesus didn't preach about allowing corruption, but about loving God and each other (and many other things of course, but that sums it al up). We christians should love the church, as she's Christ's body (at least in catholic theology 😅 sorry idk much about other denoms), and that comes with treating her with respect. So yeah, I just wanted to rant about progressive Christianity a little. I used to watch KZbinrs like God is Gray, which I think are very good people and very faithful, but they are way to evangelical for my linking lol.

[@isaacium]

KZbin comments usually are cesspools, even by Christians on Christian videos. But your comment is awesome; thanks so much for sharing. What gets me most upset about Progressive Christian churches is the label, the way it is used to modify the word Christian. The phrase "conservative Christian is also upsetting. "Christian" should stand on its own.

[@nanowasabi4421]

I won't say anything on whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I do want to mention that, if there's a behavior that, were you to become convinced that it was sinful, you wouldn't be willing to give it up, that's a problem. Whatever you believe on any topic, whether it's drinking, violent video games, hypnosis, or food with too much sugar (all things I believe are not inherently sinful), you have to be able to say to yourself "if God told me explicitly to give it up, I would heed his will". And yes, the Church is considered the Body of Christ in most Protestant denominations as far as I'm aware. We might mean something slightly different by it than Catholics do, but the term is the same. I very much appreciated your comment, and I wish you the best.

[@Pau.aguiza]

@@nanowasabi4421 Hey, thank you for your comment. I agree with you. I have been asked many times (by other queer Catholics) whether I would remain celibate if God asked me to because I'm gay, and I always answer yes. I put God above everything, even my opinions. And that's what we're supposed to do as christians, we don't struggle with God.

[@wolfhaley6900]

this. all of this!! im queer myself and trying to love God as much as possible. I feel that my identity is wholesome and normal. The only reason why people could say its not to me is if it is fueled by immorality. I believe that we should love one another and love Him especially. when people get away from that, it just doesn’t feel right. i’m so happy that i found my Lord and i can enjoy my existence with Him. God bless!! :)

[@anonymousperson1183]

The basis for determining what is sinful and what is not comes from the word of God, period. Not from science, not from feelings/personal experiences, not from any secular ideas of what is right and wrong. We are all born with proclivities towards certain sins, whether that be homosexuality, heterosexual immorality, hatred, greed, unforgiveness, or any other. And we are not doomed to continue in these sins all our lives because "that's just who we are." I know from your comment you don't want to hear it, but nevertheless you really need to hear it. As does anyone else reading this who has embraced any form of sin because "that's just who I am."

[@jkk45]

Underrated channel is underrated.

[@Cleberomaquinista]

*playing Minecraft while talking about progressive christianity* 63.000 people: insteresting

[@perfectlyrandomstuff]

You should make this into a podcast. I would definitely listen.

[@attensecallaway9752]

The weed thing is so true lol, that's completely what happens

[@LooneyLei]

9:10 Wait wait wait what I thought you recorded your playthroughs beforehand and then talked over them, not that you were doing both at the same time Multitasking is one thing but to keep preaching without losing focus on the game and what you’re saying is a skill lmao

[@dokidelta1175]

I would argue if you deny the authority of scripture you are also not a Christian.

[@joshm3283]

Divine Intervention is needed to fix the frame rate

[@maxb2242]

I would say my ideology as a United Methodist would be about a stage 3. I believe undertaking the new covenant with Jesus eliminated a lot of the rules in the old testament, other than the 10 commandments, that Jesus felt was too extreme. I believe as long as someone believes in the trinity, the resurrection, follows the commandments and participates in Church tradition, that they are a Christian. I am glad Christians can have these theological discussions through social media. No matter if youre conservative or progressive, we are all sinners who have been saved and we all live under the Kingdom of God, together 💜

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

I'm politically/socially progressive in almost every way, but theological liberalism annoys me as far as rejecting the supernatural. Like why would you claim the title of Christian if you're just a secular humanist?

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

I'm probably Stage 3 by your metric, but the Nicene creed and Bible are what I center my faith around.

[@dariusluca5469]

@@spadinnerxylaphone2622 Same =) Just as a question, are you an universalist? Or do your beliefs rather revolve around other principles of stage 3?

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

@@dariusluca5469 I'm hopeful for universalism but reading the Scriptures, annihilationism seems more likely. Also I think the "sheep and the goats" parable is more relevant to Salvation than most want to admit on any side. I think my big differences would be that I DO think God's love is the center of the Gospel message and I'm LGBT-Affirming. Not looking to debate or argue because I've heard it all, just saying what I believe based on scripture, tradition, experience, and reason.

[@dariusluca5469]

@@spadinnerxylaphone2622 I see, I was merely curious, thank you for sharing this information. God bless you and have a good day!

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

@@dariusluca5469 Sorry my "don't debate" wasn't meant for you. I just know how KZbin commenters can be.

[@joshpaulson9607]

It’s like a disease: it progresses

[@drductape]

what does smoking weed have to do with religion

[@neildalessandro8196]

Not sure, but I once saw a video about a guy who claims Jesus was a mushroom.

[@brentlocher5049]

I think he is saying that the students of this teacher came out and did not take their faith or life for that matter seriously. He just used smoking weed to point out the lack of seriousness in these kids live's.... Serious about their faith, not even serious about life.

[@drductape]

@@brentlocher5049 I figured, but it kinda sounded like he was saying "if you smoke weed you can't be a christian" or some similar thing like that

[@MajikalCowpoke]

@@drductapeCame here looking for this, 29 years straight edged and Cannabis and Mushrooms both bring me closer in talking with God. I view entheogens as sacramental and see nothing but the laws of man that seek to dispute that. seems like common cause to keep to in the atheist pipeline to take away mind expanding substances

[@99range92def]

@@drductape The bible says to have a sober mind, so thats one thing.

[@bitcoinzoomer9994]

Loved the minecraft slideshow

[@zachary7897]

Here is a tip for future videos, don’t play the game and talk while you are playing. Play and record a bunch of stock footage and then record your voice separately while not gaming and put the video +audio of your voice together in editing. That way you can focus just on what you are saying and won’t sound like you are trying to do two things at once.

[@icarojose6316]

Don’t sound like the reality hahaha

[@charlief.]

Amazing explanation! Thank you!

[@eternalflame8104]

I am curious about one thing. If You deny some aspects of Christianity because of right wing or third positionist beliefs do the same stages apply or is there another spectrum of this movement of thought? I have geniunely met people and communities of people who criticized Christianity for being too racially inclusive and denied even Jesus as an impostor. Don't even get me started on the chosen people aspect and so forth. Most of these people, though obscure in numbers and voice, gravitate towards ancient polytheistic faiths, beliefs in pure science/atheism or even Satanism.

[@MacCoalieCoalson]

As someone who is "Third Positionist" generally speaking and a Christian I'd say the stages do apply, but obviously with the reasoning behind the many heresies or outright rejection of Christianity that they espouse changed. Much like progressives, however, anti-Christian right wingers' "arguments" fall apart like wet tissue paper upon any examination and their ulterior motives are very obvious.

[@eternalflame8104]

@@MacCoalieCoalson What do you think that their ulterior motives are? I mean. typically those that are anti-christian are more concerned with race and universalism in Christianity (mostly being too inclusive and treating the gentiles as people that are inferior and should be destroyed) although some other things can be occasionally brought to light.

[@MacCoalieCoalson]

@@eternalflame8104 Well much of the time they disguise their personal hatred for Christianity, Christians, or God Himself as genuine or legitimate concern that Christianity has some kind of intrinsic flaws that conflict with their political ideals, on both sides of the political spectrum.

[@sietsejohannes]

Rightwing atheist here. I would say orthodox Christianity isn't too inclusive because its beliefs state that all people are full of shit (sin) and no one deserves to go to heaven. Many progressive Christians let go of this hard line, and instantly become too inclusive because they turn another Christian belief that anyone can be redeemed into the idea that anyone should just be accepted and are good enough the way they are born, no matter how dumb or crazy they are. There is a big difference between regarding "gentiles" (whoever you mean by that) as inferior and wanting to destroy them, by the way. Almost everyone subconsciously acknowledges that some people (and by extention groups of people) are inferior to others in some regard. I consciously acknowledge these patterns if they really appear to be statistically true, which means in some regards I can be racist/sexist/anti-gay/whatever, but that doesn't mean I want to kill anyone because of those beliefs.

[@MutantMasterRace]

The thing is, conservative and Christian values align very well. The only people on the right that deny aspects of Christianity or Christianity itself and accept things like pagan religions are usually very far-right. Like how Hitler mostly gravitated toward old pagan gods. So it's most likely a much more sharp divide, because most people on the right aren't even close to far right enough to the point of denying Christianity due to it being too inclusive, which is probably where the denial begins. But because liberalism is much more ideologically opposed to Christianity, so the doubt in it starts much earlier. I'm being pretty speculative here though so I could be wrong.

[@jhoughjr1]

Smoked weed as an atheist and as a Christian

[@christianarnold4725]

Enjoyee the video, but I will say I'm not overly confident in all of your points. To slightly push back against a few points, I believe a correct amount of stage one can be relatively healthy and I disagree with a few points made on stage two... First, while "Christian Guilt" is a bad thing, we are to call out injustices and to fight for justice, love, and peace. On one hand you are correct that you shouldn't be ashamed to be a Christian, the counterpoint I make is if someone feels like the church is ___, they should feel both encouraged and empowered to bring thar to the body. Through bringing it to the body, the church can then reflect and either dismiss it based on facts or collectively grow. Furthermore, while the Church has done great things regarding race and gender, we can't grow complacent in past achievements either and we have to understand the church can still grow and that our work isn't done. Second, I disagree with a few of your points regarding priorities. Simply put, Jesus directly says that love is the most important commandment, and that he died because "God so loved" us. Sure salvation and law are important, but law means nothing without understanding Christ's love and sacrifice that fulfilled the law. These points don't have priority, as I cannot understand Salvation without understanding His love, I cannot understand His love without the Bible and Biblical law, and the law means nothing without understanding how Christ fulfilled it through his sacrifice and how we partake through Salvation. To say Love and Justice is after Salvation is Law is ignoring that God is Love and God is Justice. I think I understand the point you were attempting to make, but how it was expressed is a very dangerous perspective that falls into legalism, which was the same thing Jesus convicted the Pharisees of falling into. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the video and it did enlighten me a little bit on where I may fall. Personally, I fall into stage one due to Church hurt. I have a brother with FAS, and have had churches plan him out of youth events, bully him, and even tell us that our family can come but he has to stay home. I've seen corruption first hand and have had questions of mine silenced, leading me to nearly denting Christ altogether. I wouldn't call it Christian Guilt, but I will say I don't particularly have positive feelings regarding the state of the Church, which may make me slightly more progressive.

[@christianarnold4725]

I will also comment, I am a Pentecostal Christian (weirdo I know) currently enrolled at a Church of God university and pursuing a masters in Psychology and potentially a minor or major in theology. As such my religious background is vastly different from yours, and my understanding of psychology also influences the lens in which I understand and perceive the Bible, ontop of anecdotal experience. In that sense my gripes may simply be influenced by denominational differences, and if that is the case I Apologize.

[@garylyon2986]

“If you love me you will obey my commandments.” Loving God and neighbor summarizes the first and second tables of the law (commandments 1-4 and 5-10, respectively). The entire Christian life is one of obedience and repentance. We “do justice” only insofar as we are commanded.

[@icarojose6316]

First of all I feel sorry for what your former church did to your brother with FAS, I just found out what it means and couldn’t believe anyone over the age of 12 could bully someone for a health condition, imagine fully adults. think I can understand the Christian guilty and explain to you. It’s like the democracy guilty, we know democracy isn’t perfect and in the name of the democracy people do evil in large scale, but we can separate democracy from its idea to the evil people who use it. Or school guilty, school has made the life of people so miserable, not only psychologically, through teachers abusing and humiliating students, but by the bully which is inherit to the school, and little changed in 300 years, like it was never taken a serious issue. But we don’t feel like a school guilty, we understand that the idea is good, but people will ruin everything, and everything will make people suffer, but we can see the positive effects way more than the negative effects, that defends the school existing. We can propose to change the school, but most people wont go to the point of denying its existing. The science is another one, we as humans did so evil in the name of science and guided by science, not only scientific racism that was brought by evolution theory, but unethical experiments on humans and even in children, lobotomy, etc. But we don’t feel like a science guilty, we understand that overall it is a good thing, and evil seeds and evil ideologies can’t affect the core ideals. technology too, with the atomic bomb and other mass destruction weapons. I think you get what I meant. But the most radical example is Love, by love we did so many evil things, there is even a Japanese philosopher called Uchiha Madara who said that “Hatred is born to protect love.” And when a man learns to love, he is also willing to learn to hate when this love is stopped. But we don’t feel a love guilty. We can see the beauty of the love, and separate it from evil and hatred that is caused in name of love. I think that this is the point of Church guilty, not that church is perfect, and there isn’t things to change, but that church isn’t intrinsically bad, and should be overcome, or at least is a synonymous of evil, because it does more bad than good. Instead of being a good place with bad people, is a bad place with eventually good lost people that should be elsewhere. This is what he meant, I know this because he did many videos about how we should hijack mainline churches, if he thinks that Church guilty is trying to reform the church, he would be a church guilty, otherwise he wouldn’t even be Protestant because Protestantism was born out of a will to change the Church. And he even did his new version of 95 teses to chance the church again.

[@wolfhaley6900]

so real

[@dakotawidenor9283]

Well dang.... here I was thinking I finally found a channel that could finally represent Christianity in a new, non-defensive, intellectually stimulating way. And for the most part it is. But I still can't help feeling disappointed that underneath all that intellectualism remains the attitude of "eww gay people want to be Christian? Not while I can minecraft about it." Oh well. To be clear, I wouldn't care so much about your own personal beliefs if you regulated them to your own church or even your own denomination. My problem comes from how you are single handedly leading a movement to infiltrate progressive churches with cultural significance to resort them back to places unwelcoming of queer people and God knows who else. (And you call liberalism a virus.) What I thought was thoughtful and humble approach to understanding Christianity, is but another reaction to people worshiping God in a way you don't agree with as "they are doing it the wrong way and must be stopped." All while failing to recognize your own self richeouse piousness. Like honestly, "people who smoke weed must not have had the seed of Christ planted in their heart"???? You're arrogance is truly humbling. I hate to break it to you, but the Bible is not the window into Christ you think it is. While surely divinly inspired, none of it comes directly from God, the Angles, or even Jesus himself. But rather from people with undeniable love for God but a limited understanding of Him. In the centuries that went into constructing the Bible, a council (the counsel of Nicaea in 325) amongst the rubble of a collapsing empire and in a desperate attempt to pivot to a new popular religion, elected what would be canonical and what wouldn't be. very little of the True teachings of Jesus remained, either out if ignorance or intentional dishonesty to retain power. None of this is to say the Bible isnt a beautiful source of Spirtual Inspirstion which can help point people in the right direction if they know how to read it. But it isnt a direct account of Christ (for that, look to a Course In Miracles) And it DEFINITELY isnt a reason to mock LGBTQ+ people or excluded our people and our families from places of worship. That is a YOU problem. One that YOU will have to deal with. After all, it says in Matthew "what you do to the least of these, you do to me." And, "those who deny me, I will also deny." As much as it saddens me, I can't help but concede that you may very well be successful in your self appointed, ego driven crusade to restore mainline Christinity to this puritanical vision of exclusion, protected against this nebulous threat of "wokeism." But all that will prove is that Christinity as a religion is at best a distortion and at worst a deception of the True teachings of Christ which are about Forgivness, Love, and the welcoming of God's Children back into the Kingdom of heaven. You may push us out of your spaces as much as you wish, persecute and disown us, but we will merly turn the other cheek and continue to move closer and closer to a divine form of love. So forgive me of my own righteousness born of exhaustion of being told I and my people are not good enough for Christ as I am (working admittedly) on Forgiving you for yours. May God Bless you. And rest assured, I say this as passive aggressively as possible. May the Father Help me.

[@yumehousetv]

Honestly, well said. I think many forget that religion is supposed to help/serve people. If they won't even sit next to you then that's them being wretched.

[@quinnklay4004]

Do you enjoy playing Minecraft on a microwave?

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

turns out it wasn't my minecraft that was the problem, it was that I had my video editor set to 8 fps lol

[@itsfrankie9570]

I would love to see a video where you scroll through r/Christianity or the various denominational subreddits sharing your views on the questions that are posted there and or statements. Love your videos.

[@SunIsLost]

Would be an interesting video

[@The_Natalist]

This reminds me of a piece from "Unqualified Reservations", which made the proposal that all Progressives are memetically linked to Christianity. Basically Protestantism if it kept cutting corners forever, they left behind God, Christ, dignity, and salvation, but kept the guilt of sin.

[@moethegamingbro9017]

I really enjoyed this video man

[@jackesposito1757]

I like your videos a lot but I don’t like the homophobic stuff.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

For the first 2 years of being Christian I tried to reconcile being affirming with believing the Christian essentials, but eventually I realized I kinda had to choose one or the other and I chose Christianity

[@fortjaylen133]

Read Leviticus 18 22 and 20 13 and 1 Corinthians 6 9

[@jackesposito1757]

@@fortjaylen133 ok I will

[@BigPapiCapone]

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬-‭4‬

[@truegravee]

I hate to tell you this you're not in a church you're in a social club.

[@id5713]

Very Nice video. I attend a progressive United Methodist church but I always felt that our church has a lot to offer. You are right not leaving a denomination helps maintain some order

[@daviddelgado2430]

Dude I love your videos man. Bless you dude!

[@mohammedsy1590]

well i have to admit you just psycho analyzed my entire existence congrats

[@forivall]

"the church has not done explicitly bad things" have you never heard of residential schools? Terra nullius?

[@bartbatz1515]

He's American so possibly not. Residential schools was a Canadian thing primarily if I recall.

[@forivall]

@@bartbatz1515 also Australian I think (I'm Canadian) (but also, the doctrine of Terra nullius came from Catholic Church philosophers, and lead to the conquest of the Americas, including the trail of tears)

[@forivall]

@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 I said the doctrine, not the concept. Nice try, charlatan.

[@forivall]

@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 also, curious that you ignored the trail of tears, and the residential schools we're talking about.

[@internetperson3926]

Or the sexual abuse and coverups in every denomination

[@Procopius464]

"Progressive Christian" is an oxymoron, just like "Christian Muslim" or "Atheist Christian"

[@EnderGamer1936]

forgot "Theistic evolution"

[@Procopius464]

@@EnderGamer1936 Also that

[@joellaz9836]

No such thing as a “progressive Christian” because a truly progressive church is a church that shuts down because they admit religion is farce. The progressives ultimate aim and goal would be the rejection of religion and always will be. This is why “progressive Christian” is an oxymoron.

[@jacobhesington6725]

I’ve been watching your videos for a bit now and really enjoying them. I’m a zoomer myself. I agree that we should fight for our churches tooth and nail, but I think once a church has reached a certain point it might be time to leave. One problem is that most people get their theology from their church. Yes, we ought to do our own research and study the Bible, but most Christians simply aren’t going to do that or they’ll be confused when their church and their research differ and likely take the side of the church even if their theology is dead-wrong. Therefore, I wouldn’t be comfortable inviting agnostics or new believers to a church controlled by progressives because I’d be caught saying “I know the church (or the pastor) says this, but that’s not true. Regardless, I appreciate your fight to save your denomination. - a Baptist

[@magicalgirlweeb7804]

Non-Christian here that is studying Christianity for school/college. I love your channel. Can I ask how long you have been a Christian? Many blessings.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

been a Christian for 6 years now! Raised in a very atheist part of the country but became Christian as a teenager

[@jhoughjr1]

I kinda started that way too. Be careful. Don’t let the alg rabbit hole you lol

[@joenathan8059]

I think its okay to be a progressive Christian(i think im one to a degree) but then you get churchs like the "United church of Christ"/"United church of Canada" and wonder what went wrong

[@jaredcaldwell4270]

You can't be a liberal and a Christian. It makes no logical sense. Liberalism/leftism is all about self-worship. Everything that liberalism/leftism promotes is antithetical to Christianity. Liberalism is philosophically linked with Satanism.

[@sietsejohannes]

As a conservative atheist I really don't 'get' progressive Christians (although I do know a lot of them). Seems like they really just enjoy the worst of both worlds.

[@BKT_04]

Just remember that you can't cherry pick the bible

[@violentblue355]

Yeah, for me the problem isn't with having female priests or even being ok with same-sex couples if you can come up with a good Biblical argument for doing so. The problem is that this seems to too often lead to the church's disassociation with the central tenants of Christianity in favor of a vague Christanish philosophy that isn't too far off from Universalism.

[@joenathan8059]

@@violentblue355 you got it on spot how i feel

[@MrSteezzy]

11:52 Best argument for any topic: “I think im right, deal with it” XD

[@connormcpherson8793]

Hey! A fellow PCA member! Great video. One question: Do you think these stages naturally advance, like stage 1 will eventually grow into stage 2, or is it more of a pick-your-poison kinda thing?

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

sort of. I mean, my denomination's churches didn't just randomly go from fully Christian to atheist. Right now, my Church is stage 2 and is on the danger of going to stage 3 which I'm trying to stop

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

btw I'm PCUSA not PCA, which is why I'm so invested in combatting progressivism

[@biffspigler1093]

​@@redeemedzoomer6053 Dear friend, I replied to this conversation because I'm currently EPC and thinking of switching to PCA. However my home church is PCUSA. I have been searching for a church home and I have found your videos very topical. If I may ask why are you still in the PCUSA. I will agree, several people from my home church share similar opinions as you do and don't care for the larger PCUSA.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

@@biffspigler1093 Because the PCUSA is the denomination that contains the Reformed heritage. It has most of the historic buildings, seminaries, universities, etc. All this stuff is worth fighting for and not worth giving to the liberals and running away

[@zachsmith8916]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 but do the conservatives in the PCUSA even have the capability to replicate an SBC style conservative resurgence? Most of the conservatives left a long time ago. The SBC and LCMS were able to do what they did because they still held a considerable amount of sway with the laity. I don’t think that exists in the PCUSA anymore. For all intents and purposes Westminster is what Princeton used to be and has been for decades.

[@bakedvegan6379]

How do you personally deal with being part of a church that is borderline heretical? Enjoyed this video!! I’m learning a lot from you as a new Christian lol.

[@rainbowlegend8567]

My church broke away from a church that was stage 3, the parent church allowed gay marriage even though Corinthians is still a thing so my church noped out of it and left. I went to that parent church once, it's very pretty and beautiful but also very bland and cooperate in a way. Borderline heretical churches are still somewhat neat but like can they be considered Christian at this point?

[@LorenzoPelupessy]

​@@rainbowlegend8567Ripped out a Pauline letters? Heresy....

[@Youliseas]

I speak from the perspective of someone who's never believed in any religion, I've only ever been in a church once when it was easter, I drank the wine and ate the saltine and then another time when a friend of mine rented out their church for their birthday party to have a nerf war. I say this to preempt the point of why all of this has and always will just seem like bogus to me. I do not have a positive position on religion, I look at history and I see the church oppressing the serfs of Europe for thousands of years, I see pointless wars over a made up holy land and I look to today and I see churches propagating hatred; the conversion camp and the constant bickering amongst those who believe. And yet, I admire the propensity, the devotion, however misguided and unintentionally harmful it may be I admire the people and I admire the goal. I wish there was a higher power, I wish it simply was that easy, I wish I could simply devote myself to some divine and their divine rulings and have it be so simple, and yet, it isn't. But what many seem to ignore is *faith*. They tear down god and destroy him in their minds and they try to hold onto the material and the factual, the scientific. They give up on *good* and just simply try to live, for themselves, for whatever they can. But what I maintain is that there is a higher power above us- ... it's *us*. It *has* and always will be *us*. What I ask anyone who believes is not to believe no more, but to replace that faith in the divine, with a faith in humanities future, a faith in *us*, a faith in *ourselves*. To believe in yourself and the people around you, to help them, guide them as you help and guide yourself. You are the shepherd, you always have been. 5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. 6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

[@Sunrah]

listen, my opinion is that the fundamental logical endpoint is agnosticism, we simply cannot prove the divine, in that respect we agree. the problem with atheistic humanism is that it doesn't actually have any values besides "advance humanity". This has no incentive structure, meaning there's no reason to not be selfish, since the material world is all that we have, we might as well be self-serving hedonists. Because it has no values, nazism is essentially the most "humanistic" path since it reduces suffering in the long term (ethnic cleansing, uniformity, getting rid of genetic undesirables, creating a perfect world). point is without religion there's really no agreed upon set of rules and even when people try to make up rules (by imitating religion) there's nothing to stop people from disobeying besides physical violence (which won't be as much of deterrent when death is oblivion, not judgement).

[@zenSNTL]

Very concisely stated. I used to have this exact view at some point before I became a Christian. I just want to add that it’s also the end point of utilitarianism in my view. Now that I type this I see I actually went backwards through these stages.

[@somegut9301]

Great analysis

[@PeoplesRepublicNewSilesia]

I agree

[@KarenWasherGrudzien]

Trash analysis

[@Tawa-b5v]

I was in a public church today and the pastor was a fat woman who did dollar store magic tricks during the sermon and at the end they played "Phantom of the Opera" on the organ, I wish I was kidding

[@jonahpeacock2561]

I was an atheist that converted to Progressive Christianity, but I was always a leftist and just became a Christian.

[@SunIsLost]

I used to be Anti-lgbt Roman Catholic ever since I was born and teached and stuff, now I'm Roman Catholic and part of the LGBTQ.

[@arturnicaciodeandrade9861]

​@@SunIsLostyou're not roman catholic, you are a heretic. God and his prophets continously said that any non-heterosexual relationship is sinful.

[@AssadTheOne]

This comment section is so cursed. Disgusting

[@LorenzoPelupessy]

How is that even possible 😂

[@baggedmilk23]

man y’all really out and about with justifying the homophobia :/ i was hoping this channel was better than that

[@viarose3721]

me too

[@EzeBall1710]

Nobody cares

[@safarizone6791]

god=truth=good but you don't even know what truth or good are and god is a bunch of words on a page you assume to be true

[@neildalessandro8196]

Where in the Bible does it say that lol.

[@safarizone6791]

@@neildalessandro8196 God is omnibenevolent according the the bible. God's word is also true according to the bible. However I doubt you even know what true or good actually mean. What does it mean that gods word is true. What does it mean that gods word is good. Analyze the meanings of good and true themselves.

[@neildalessandro8196]

@@safarizone6791 No I mean where does it say God is just a bunch of words on a page? Do you even read the Bible?

[@safarizone6791]

@@neildalessandro8196 well it does say god is a word if you take it literally. Which is allegory for it being a concept and not a physical existing being. However you have to be atheistic to get the nods to atheism in the text.

[@safarizone6791]

@@neildalessandro8196 None of the spiritual entities actually exist. Like hell or heaven aren't places you can actually go. God isn't in reality all powerful. They're all just concepts that you perceive as physical, and since you do perceive them as physical they have an impact on your behavior. This alteration of behavior is how the religion operates. It compels you to go to and financially support your church, act by an interpretation of gods morality, etc.

[@robertsloppytopenheimer256]

I think the dude who created the universe has more to worry about than two men being happy together

[@IThinkItsDark]

If what you're talking about is so great, why do you have to use a euphemism for it?

[@robertsloppytopenheimer256]

How does it affect you if gay people get married?

[@IThinkItsDark]

@@robertsloppytopenheimer256 I see you avoided my question, and are pretending I said something I didn't say. Why is so much dishonest rhetoric required to defend something so wonderful?

[@robertsloppytopenheimer256]

I just don't get how anybody could care about it. It's not even about if you agree with it, it literally has no effect on your day to day life. So why be against it

[@yotengoe7302]

@@IThinkItsDark I said it gay marriage not using a euphemism 😱😱😱😱

[@howlsaur]

Can we maybe not compare human beings to viruses?

[@finchborat]

Though the Christian Left will never stop doing that.

[@andrew2715]

As an Orthodox Christian (Big O☦️)I would say that progressive Christianity begins with you because you think that people who deny the moral teaching of the faith and authority of scripture is ecumenist. Denial of any of Christ’s teaching is heresy 2 Peter 2:1, and according to Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus declares that the workers of lawlessness shall depart from him. To even suggest that workers of lawlessness shall or can be saved without repentance is arguably a denial of Christ’s word and a work of lawlessness itself. I’d argue you’re missing a couple stages entirely. A Christian completely unaffected by progressiveness would be one that affirms that there is only one visible body of the Church and that only genuine members of that body are true Christians (whether they are Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox). That said of course only God knows the truth of men’s hearts. Stage 1 would be to say that while there may be one true Church that people in other churches don’t need to convert to it in this life for salvation.(that said I personally believe people may convert to Orthodoxy on their deathbed by expressing true repentance) Stage 2 would be to say that it doesn’t matter at all if you’re Catholic Orthodox or Protestant (so long as you are little o orthodox) Stage 3 would be persons who would say that it doesn’t matter if you’re even little (o orthodox) such as yourself Then I’d say the stages you talk about in this video are stages 4-8. Persons in stages 1-2 are not overly affected by the progressive/ecumenist heresy and won’t drastically affect their salvation (but may still cause damage to the kingdom like you say of your stage 3). But people in stage 3 such as yourselves are basically the cuckservatives of Christianity, and that it is a heresy beginning to stand on the edge of abyss. After all if people who think homosexuality is acceptable can be saved why do you bother condemning homosexuality at all? And if there is no need to bother condemning it then it really is acceptable and so on. You don’t seem like the kind of person who would fall into that abyss but given what you say about your background rather someone trying to crawl out of it. God bless you and I Challenge you to reconsider your positions.

[@Sqk.]

[I’m a Buddhist, for reference] I think historically Christianity hasn’t really been the best for women. It depends on the culture more than the religion - for instance, Buddhism is essentially neutral towards women however acknowledges social structure to the extent that things like bhikkhunī/bhiks.unī (female monks) having more monastic rules than bhikkhus/bhiks.us (monks) to comply with social order. For religions like Islām, of course that’s more sexist, but Christianity has definitely not been the greatest to women out of all of them. Now, you may assume Islām is a homophobic religion, however the Ottoman Empire, a very Muslim empire, allowed homosexual marriage and homosexuality was ingrained into the culture. That’s an example of the culture overtaking the religion. Nuns, despite being more independent than regular women, still had to do a lot, were most likely subservient to male monastics, and were still nuns, which meant they had to follow way more rules than the average person. Just my two cents.

[@sskspartan]

Another fake Buddhist, Buddha and others said it's practically impossible for women to attain Nirvana

[@Sqk.]

@@sskspartan He never did, and there are various sutta, commentarial and traditional references of women not only attaining Nibbāna but being shown as equal to men who had attained Nibbāna. For instance, his own stepmother. I understand if you want to be sexist but at least make a compelling argument and one that cannot be disproved within a few seconds.

[@seaneustace9838]

If you think women in China, have it better than women in Christian country if you’ve never been there and don’t get me started with Islam. You literally don’t know what you’re talking about and I doubt you’re a real Buddhist I suspect you’re some Westerner that want something other than Christianity. Grow up.

[@alileevil]

I would argue that Christianity shows the most reverence to woman with the belief that Mary is the mother of God. Even in the Bible, Jesus performs his first miracle after Mary told him to help the couple at the wedding at Cana. On his way to Calvary, the Bible mentions that most of the people who came to see and accompany him were women. In fact most of the 1st Christians were women. Yes, women were forbidden from becoming priests, but they do play a vital role in the church as nuns and arguably has contributed more to spreading and maintaining Christianity. BTW nuns were not subservient to male monastics, who themselves had a very difficult life. I suggest you read up on the works of monks and you will see that they did not live like kings and were in fact persecuted. So while you may claim that Christianity is a sexist religion, the facts do not back you up. 1. Christian women are more religious than men and 2. there are more Christian women than men.

[@Sqk.]

@@alileevil That doesn’t really change anything as to how contemporary and historical Christianity have viewed and/or treated women. Anyway, the importance of Mary is very deemphasised in Protestant traditions compared to, say, the Roman Catholic tradition, and it is specifically presented as Mary being important rather than women as a whole.

[@RodrigoHernangomez]

"A Roman Catholic will never deny scripture against progressive agenda". I hope you never visit Germany because you are gonna be disappointed 😅

[@gingerrik1422]

Man besides me just generally disagreeing with alot of stuff here I think it's important to point out that this video (like many other political content on youtube) makes excessive use of words/phrases like 'obviously' 'of course' 'they're just wrong' etc. to deny any room for actual discussion by just assuming their own takes to be right.

[@0NoOne1nParticular]

LOL didnt step one mention the obsession with subjective truth? some things are black and white, right and wrong, objectively true and ordained by God. get over it, why is it so hard, making whiny comments doesnt help either party

[@gingerrik1422]

@No One the bible can be interpreted in many different ways. Acting as if your interpretation is the only correct one is pretty toxic and close minded

[@0NoOne1nParticular]

@@gingerrik1422 obviously God is good. of course homosexuality is a sin. the Arians are just wrong. please interpret these facts from the bible any way you want, but dont cry when people present the correct, orthodox, and historical interpretation. sure a homeless guy in LA could interpret it was about unicorns and fairies. cool for him, hes wrong. being Christian and not caring about the bible or standing for the truth (Jesus) is closed minded. not having conviction in your beliefs is toxic. google conviction. it means firmly held beliefs. firmly right or wrong. firmly black or white. you're welcome, resume the soy buzzfilled whining my pale ginger friend

[@maxi979]

What is this quality

[@EmperorBrettavius]

Nonexistent.

[@krimsonkatt]

@Kit Agreed. This guy advertises his channel with like two good videos and the rest is dogshit opinions from an open far right bigot while playing Minecraft at 5 FPS.

[@niccolopaganini1782]

@@krimsonkatt hows he a bigot?

[@krimsonkatt]

@@niccolopaganini1782 He's anti LGBT and claims it's an "abomination unto god" when in reality God loves everyone equally and the verses in the bible "condemning homosexuality" are either blatantly mistranslated or wildly taken out of context. Along with that, there is no mention of trans people whatsoever and the few times they're even implied (Eunichs) they're portrayed positively. Jesus himself (literally God) is also heavily implied to be canonicly aromantic/asexual. (no sexual or romantic attraction) OP is also anti trans and believes in far right conspericy theories like "ThE lbErAl MeDiA cOnTrOlS tHe ScHoOlS aNd Is UsInG tHeM tO tUrN oUr KiDs GaY!" He has a whole video condemning college and education in general claiming it's all "a liberal woke propaganda buzzword buzzword buzzword training facility" which is classic right wing fear mongering in order to make the population less educated so that the right can better manipulate them to benefit the 0.1%. Basically your classic bigoted religious zealot with a hint of a messiah complex since he apparently believes that he'd "building God's TRUE kingdom" in MINECRAFT of all things, a game made by a sweetish atheist and currently owned by one of the biggest cooperations in the world founded by Bill Gates (a major funder for the Democratic party and the feature of many far right conspericy theories) who's also blatantly pro-LGBT.

[@FRL1344]

Love the Minecraft and chat good work

[@aftersundown7388]

This guy probably prays every night that God will make redstone rails push a minecart one block further instead of trying to understand how to make a functional coaster lmfao. ☠️

[@supersonicfan3522]

Nice samsung fridge gameplay

[@utse2474]

Next Slide!!🎉🔥

[@AuroraNCSinger]

I disagree that no one converts to progressive Christianity from atheism/agnosticism. I know someone from my high school who was atheist/agnostic until her girlfriend converted her. They got married last year with a legal courthouse wedding and then a "spiritual" wedding "under God". They also attended drag shows regularly and lived together before marriage. Not sure which stage exactly, but definitely no less than Stage 3

[@wolfhaley6900]

i was agnostic and now im a progressive christian. yeah he was a little off with that

[@masphil981]

I feel like you alienate people with your beliefs because you imply that being more liberal is a negative thing or that having a different perspective on Christianity makes you ‘not a true Christian.’ It just starts arguments with people who, from the outside looking in, appear to hold very similar beliefs. In my opinion many Christian’s have a similar mentality in general of ‘if my Church is right ALL others must be wrong’ and ‘it’s my Duty to convert people to my beliefs’. I know this is not an exclusively Christian mentality but is feels like everyone’s just running around calling everyone else heretical.

[@amberharmsen2497]

imagine thinking some of gods creations shouldnt have the same rights as his other creations despite him saying everyone should be treated equally hell he even asked st. paul to spread the word of the gospel regardless of who he came across and even demanded he treat everyone equally

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

You seem to be forgetting that God is a holy and just God and cannot overlook evil. I am called by the bible to love you but that doesn't mean that I have to blindly affirm your sin, or even agree with you. Despite being God's creations, people are still responsible for the consequences of their actions.

[@amberharmsen2497]

@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle yet he can also condone and encourage slavery in the book of leviticus as well as rape in dueteronomy What just god that cant overlook evil encourages evil God created both good and evil btw

[@amberharmsen2497]

@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle i am called by my own morality derived from my culture to know what is good and bad I know the bible and god is anything but just ffs god has killed men women children and babies numerous times in the bible for shit that he created (sin) God cant be both just and immoral

[@amberharmsen2497]

@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle was the pharoah given free will when god forcefully changed his mind after agreeing to set the jews free ftom egyptian slavery? Just so god could punish the egyptians Was that considered free will? Or what about when god only gave 2 trees for adam and eve to eat from while simultaneously refusing to give them knowledge of the possiblity of punishment because god kept that from them until after they made a choice

[@amberharmsen2497]

@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle im an atheist ive studied the bible far better than you have And i know more than enough to not be convinced of delusions and contrradictory behaviours of this so called perfect god You worship a god that has encouraged genocide rape torture abuse and slavery

[@theproceedings4050]

I recently had a discussion with one such "Christian", somehow he was of the opinion that even though calling somebody the pronouns of the sex was lying to them, was justifying it by ignoring all the verses in which the Bible and Jesus tells us to stop lying.

[@Porook]

The Bible is very explicit about sobriety. Have you ever drank?

[@sharkinator7819]

@@Porook Jesus turned water into wine so I’m pretty the Bible doesn’t flat out condemn alcohol, it simply doesn’t condone alcoholism

[@Porook]

@@sharkinator7819 Jesus made wine, but not for the purpose of intoxication, which is how modern men use it. Galatians 5:19-21: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: ... drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Ephesians 5:18: "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." Wine has a very different context in the bible, because water could not be drank in abundance and alcohol was an accessible way to get sanitized drink. It also had a vastly lower alcohol content compared to modern drink. It's also unclear whether Jesus actually did make wine at all. The original Hebrew word refers to all juice-derived beverages. It's typically translated as wine because wine has a luxurious connotation, thus making the feat seem more impressive. Either way, the bible is extremely clear that intoxication is sinful. A church that accepts inebriation is no different than one that accepts homosexuals.