Staggered Stud Wall VS Double Wall For Soundproofing

[@carlotta4th]

A staggered wall is "good enough" in my opinion. Ordinary wall: 34 STC. Staggered wall: 48 Staggered wall with a thicker drywall (like Quietrock): 57. That's already amazing, sure a double wall with 2 layers of drywall can get you up to 74, but it takes SO much space comparatively! And since the staggered wall is only about an inch bigger than ordinary walls I think that makes it the clear winner for retrofits.

[@franciscoayon9470]

Questions is,canna staggered wall be 2×6 top/bottom plate and 2×4 as studs? Or needs to be bigger,also what would happen if you added quietwalk underlayment behind drywall🤔

[@BubbleOnPlumb]

As a side note to the soundproofing, I would like to point out the thermal advantages of staggered stud and double wall construction. This will not matter for the interior walls but on the exterior walls of a building there is a nice energy saving advantage to be gained by these kinds of wall systems. The air gap created in the wall also works as a thermal break and eliminates a significant amount of the thermal bridging that occurs within a typical stud wall system. Doing this for your exterior walls not only reduces sound transfer through the wall but the heat transfer as well and the heat transfer reduction will eventually offset the added expense of the exterior wall construction.

[@AcademyofSelfReliance]

We're helping an off-grid homesteading community find information for building high R-value walls. Any idea how much higher a staggered-stud wall's R-value could be?

[@AlaskaWild]

Would humidity be an issue with a staggered wall on the outside perimeter? Worried about moisture and mold.

[@eduy1985]

​@@AlaskaWild You should use a vapor barrier so water from outside cant go inside but still moisture from inside can go outside.

[@Aaron_b_c]

I was trying to figure out how to mount a server rack and ended up here for some reason. Fascinating stuff

[@MultiMacnasty]

For best sound insulation with a double wall use separate top and bottom plates. Do not tie the 2 walls together that would only allow vibration to transfer to the other wall........

[@spudluver47]

You’re right, but staggered stud is much cheaper to build because you aren’t building each wall twice

[@niktak1114]

They will always be tied together somehow. Even with separate top and bottom plates, they'll still be connected to the same subfloor.

[@MultiMacnasty]

@@niktak1114 Obviously.......2 separate walls allows much less transfer of vibration. I've helped build 5 home recording studios and the double wall has been the best wall when it comes to the least amount of sound transfer through the wall...........

[@bluehorizon5149]

What about doing a double wall construction with solid-slab rockwool in the middle using sound-barrier plasterboard ?

[@AlaskaWild]

Excellent explanation. My question comes in about the door. Even if you soundproof the walls inside of a home, wouldn’t a lot of the sound escape via the door?

[@soundproofguide]

Great question Alaska Wild, I do talk about that in a lot of my videos. Here's one for how to soundproof a room for beginners. Hint - you should start with the door, or window if the noise is coming from outside. Here's the link - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaSQlZ6Nn66UmaM

[@jzacher85]

How do these wall assmeblies compare to a standard 2x6 wall frame with continuous insulation on the exterior?. Comparing different thickness and type of continuous insulation.

[@adreenryan2901]

This method is even very good for insulation as well because you have less cold bridging.

[@NS-dd9ou]

Hi, I really appreciate the content you have put in your channel. I had planned using projected cellulose as insulation in the cavity of the exterior wall of a double wall assembly and leaving the gap between walls just empty. The outer wall is gonna be a sandwich of a 6" frame covered on both sides with plywood 18 mm outside and 12 mm on the inside. The plywood on the inside face would be just to contain the cellulose tight. The second wall will be 4" wooden framing with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall ....I may be adding vinyl wrapping as i don't wanna fail. I'll be playing drums with a full metal band inside so i need a high STC rating. Do you have any empirical data about air gap width vs achieved STC? Is there a minimum. Every extra inch of air gap means an additional inch of foundation width I have to pour. Thanks

[@johnman334]

The air gap between the studs is irrelevant. The decoupling of the walls from each other is what matters. for example, if you lean on a stud and somebody strikes the other side with a hammer you are going to feel every bit of it. if you are leaning on a stud that is not touching the one that was struck you will feel almost nothing. For best results make sure the bottom and top plate is secured as well as possible. the main advantage of the double walls is that the top plate and bottom plate are not being shared

[@detroyt232323]

Hi, saw your reply and I'm curious about your experience with this? I am building a double wall to keep out a large stereo system. I am right at the point of figuring out how much air gap I need. Obviously the smallest possible to salavage more interior space but I don't want to compromise performance especially with frequencies below 100 hz!. Thanks beforehand with anything you're able to offer up. Best

[@niro750]

I can't find the link now but I saw a research paper that says this is wrong. The bigger the gap the better the wall works- to a point. However the one I'm making only has a 1in gap because more is impractical and returns although better are diminishing

[@vinylrules4838]

@@detroyt232323 Double stud wall is not going to do much for frequencies below 100Hz. You need diaphragmatic absorption for low frequencies. I suggest you check out the Acoustic Fields website and KZbin videos. Someone else built double stud walls for their home theater room and it did not stop low frequencies. The wife was very unhappy.

[@detroyt232323]

@@vinylrules4838 thanks but ummmm I posted that a year ago. My build has long been finished 👍

[@DuckMallard11]

@@detroyt232323 how did your design perform with regard to sub 100hz frequencies? I'm building a drum practice room and I'm where you were in trying to determine how much gap to leave between outer and inner walls.

[@orangeguy3314]

I'm thinking about redoing a wall between two bedrooms with staggered stud walls and then using mass loaded vinyl follow with 1/2 inch drywall. What do you think about my idea?.

[@dumptruckintruthduke]

Might as well do 5/8

[@tcmixman]

Add resilient channel for mounting the drywall and it gets even better.

[@Tesla1254]

Instead of a staggered stud wall, or a double (standard) wall,... How about combining both methods into a double staggered stud wall?

[@BL-ut2zz]

hi. how is the staggered method effective when the top and bottom plates still make contact with each side of the drywall? thanks

[@dracodraco1982]

Full disclosure, I'm just a rando with no experience in building, engineering, or even physics. So, take this purely as a theoretical explanation. True, the floor and ceiling plates are in contact with both rows of studs, and some sound will be transmitted by that solid connection. Nevertheless, it does measurably decrease sound transmission (so I'm told, anyway). How? Well, think of sound as water and walls as pipes. A normal wall, with normal drywall and framing, is like a one inch pipe. It does limit how much water can flow, but it'll flood a room in minutes all the same. But! By making sure the floor and ceiling plates are the only shared connection, you effectively reduce the capacity of how much water can flow, as if you went from a 1" pipe to a quarter inch pipe. Some vibrations will transfer, yeah. Unless you're in perfect vacuum, some vibrations will always transfer. Some will be reflected by dense objects, some will be absorbed and transformed into heat (Green glue, I'm looking at you), some can be canceled out by clever engineering that creates destructive interference, and some will get through. This just narrows the metaphorical opening for water to flow, thus reducing the flow rate. For sound transmission, that means more decibels are lost along the journey. Eventually, you get to a point where mundane sounds in the room or your level of hearing won't pick up external sound. But even the most silent places on Earth have ambient sound levels of ~30dB. To get better, you've got to leave Earth. (And your heart, the rush of blood, breathing, digesting, even friction from movement..you're still bringing noise with you, alas.) Too long, didn't read version: Grab the nearest flashlight, shine it between your fingers. That's a normal wall. Staggered is like closing your fingers, some light will get through (that's the floor and ceiling plates in this metaphor), but you're radically decreasing the number of photons that can slip past you. Double is like using both hands. Anyway, that's the way it makes sense to me. Whether or not I'm right for sure, I cannot say. There is a product that I've heard of, but haven't seen used: Sound Screws/Sound Fasteners. Basically, it's drywall screws that have a wee little spring sitting between the head of the screw and it's shaft. It basically creates a 1-2mm air gap between framing and dry wall, with only the wee bit of spring wire bridging that gap. They run a ~$1 per screw, and I've never seen a comparison, but they only just came to market in the last year, and the only producer is in Sweden, if memory serves. But it seems most soundproofing is just getting that little bit of an air gap. But, again, I'm not an expert. I'm just a random idiot with a lot of time to wonder and puzzle things out. :P

[@mohanshiva_musical]

If already exisiting brick wall 1 bhk room is there, we have to create a stud wall one side covered with plywood e seperate stud wall inside brick room?? Or we can directly screw plywood over existing brick wall, if hiw much will be stc ratio

[@jamesmcfarlane4060]

How about this. 100mm stud wall with 12.5mm plaster board each side with 50mm rockwool with a 50mm air gap, would that work or would I need 100mm rockwool?

[@ozm8642]

What about finished two walls within an inch of one another? Dry, insulation between studs, drywall. And then repeat. That way there is total separation and maximum sound absorption and a small air grap

[@AcademyofSelfReliance]

We refer to that as "double-wall stick built" (don't know if that's an industry term or not!). The theory is that then you only have to heat or cool the little gap between the two walls to keep the home cozy.

[@bonniet6275]

You may want to look into "triple leaf" and "quadruple leaf" problems as what your describing sounds like it may fall into this catagory.

[@ozm8642]

I changed my design. All I did was put sonopan in the gap, so zero air gap

[@beachboardfan9544]

Wonder how these techniques compare to a concrete wall?

[@TheCharleseye]

They're both significantly lighter.

[@beachboardfan9544]

@@TheCharleseye 😄

[@christophercharles9645]

You can start with putting rock wool between even standard 2x4 walls and double rocking - to drown out talking and other mild noises. The staggered framing is probably good for home theaters (unless you have a crazy sound system!) or off large rooms that have many folks in it. Double walls are extreme: you just lose SO MUCH space! If you did that to your whole house you'd lose 15% or your square footage or more, based on your home layout. And, unless you're selling the house to someone who cherishes silence, it might be hard to sell such a house - because you're paying property taxes (at least in part) on the size of the house.

[@huntera123]

It seems an important consideration would be the possibility of adding fire resistant materials.

[@soundproofguide]

Indeed.

[@waitingtohear]

would staggering the studs when facing each other in a "double wall" help in any way with STC? In other words, combine the best of both ideas: two walls together, but stagger the studs so they don't line up with each other once the wall is closed up. Would that improve anything at all or is it a waste of time to plan out?

[@jefftaylor3090]

Hey. Hopefully you have found an answer to your query, but I'll try to provide an answer in case you're still looking. Note: I am not an experienced craftsman. I am only offering my insights based on what I have gleaned while researching this topic. From what I can tell, there appears to be no benefit to staggering studs on a double wall construction. The staggered wall construction seems to exist only as the most compact way to construct a wall without studs making contact with both sides of the wall, as it is only 6" wide.

[@five-forty3431]

Excellent explanation, thank you!

[@sharpsbattle]

If this room is in the basement, how do you frame the ceiling? Can you double wall the ceiling as well? Thx

[@franciscoayon9470]

1 thing would be addind like quietwalk underlayment on flooring,and so too

[@stephen7938]

ICF would be similar spacing and similar pricing per linear foot as these methods and creates the best sound proofing

[@ai1.0]

What is ICF?

[@i2rtw]

@@ai1.0 insulated concrete forms.

[@ai1.0]

@@i2rtw polymer forms?

[@jimbrown563]

I only found one discrepancy in your presentation ..... "Loose Insulation" ..... Nope. Density, or Weight, are the qualities you are after to absorb sound, this is the principle that "Double-Layer", or thicker cross section, drywall uses, it simply adds weight, which takes more sound energy to set into vibration. Fiber-Glass only works "OK" for sound absorption when it is packed in tight, however, Rock-Wool type insulation is substantially better at absorbing sound, mostly because it has much more weight and density. Rock-Wool also has a much more definite shape and size which tends to further insure that the highest percentage of the air space is filled with sound absorbing material. Any air space that does not contain sound absorbing material only contributes to the mechanical "decoupling factor" between the walls. Empty air space does not contribute to actual sound absorption. The definition of sound absorption is the conversion of sound energy into heat. Air does not convert sound energy into heat, it simply transfers it from one place to another, and sometimes may "diffuse" the sound energy by "randomizing" it's direction of travel, whereas, Fiber-Glass, and Rock-Wool, actually convert the sound into a different type of energy, which makes the "Noise" seem like it just "disappears", the "Noise" no longer exists as "Sound Pressure Waves" which can be detected by your ears. Fiber-Glass "can be" compressed and packed in very tight, which makes it FAR MORE EFFECTIVE at absorbing sound, but still not as effective as Rock-Wool. . .

[@soundproofguide]

You make a great point. Thanks for commenting

[@orangeguy3314]

I did forget to add that I would be putting insulation in the air space. I didn't want to do two layers of drywall. I was hoping putting in mass loaded vinyl would take the place of one of those sheets of drywall.

[@niro750]

I saw a research paper somewhere with actual figures that says this is incorrect. The recommendation was to use the cheap insulation because the sound bounces about in the ca ity and turns to heat in the insulation and in general the insulation made very little difference to the numbers. I'm going to try rw3 in the internal wall of my build and cheaper insulation in the outer wall. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. The paper said it's not about the insulation being a mass. That job falls to the dry wall. The insulation is there to turn the sound energy to heat.

[@mohanshiva_musical]

Rock wool no point in sound isolation it cannot stop low frequencues i have planned to use only airgap no insulation material it can only improve 2-4 db if use rockwool but hazarads material

[@jimbrown563]

@@mohanshiva_musical Nothing can stop very low Frequencies, except Concrete-Blocks, Poured-Concrete, or Bricks. 4-inches of Rock-Wool is excellent for Frequencies above roughly ~50hz. Rock-Wool is NOT a "Hazardous-Material", and it is totally Fire-Proof. Rock-Wool WILL make your bare-skin itch, similar to Fiber-Glass. Wear Gloves and a Long-Sleeved-Shirt when installing.

[@techheck3358]

how would you add noggings/blocking to the staggered walls?

[@techheck3358]

@Navy1977 but there’s barely any space?

[@techheck3358]

​@Navy1977 i just mean, if you have a 6" of clearance, with staggered 2x, that means you only have 2" between the sheathing on one side and the stud from the other side, no? youd fit at most like a 1x, in that gap, without bridging the gap, no?

[@jjlovesjam]

Great video, thanks!

[@Drumlind]

Please do a video including sound proofing qualities of concrete. Keeping the inside sound inside the room and keeping oustside sound outside the room. Thank you!

[@soundproofguide]

I’ll certainly look into that! Thanks for the feedback!

[@Drumlind]

@@soundproofguide Awesome! You're welcome. Im thinking about making a sound proof room in my back yard for my drums. I was thinking about forming the walls with concrete between plywood, and even leaving it like that without removing the plywood like normal concrete buildings. Basically it would be concrete instead of green glue or MLV. Just not sure how thick it would need to be.

[@singhA1968]

very good technique

[@detroyt232323]

Hey man! Great video. I am converting my garage into a badass man cave/rock lounge with a pretty substantial stereo system. There is an "L" shaped portion of the garage that transfers sound and vibration into the other side of the wall into the house. I have already ripped out part of the inside drywall and plan on building a second wall not attached to to the house using the double wall approach. There will be 9+ inches between the 2 walls. I am thinking 2x4 studs, pink R13 insulation and double 5/8" drywall on the wall inside the garage. Do you think that will be enough? I listen to the steroe quite loud sometimes around 100+ db. Should I consider sound clips for attaching the drywall or Roxuk insulation to make it even better? Thanks for any insight! Keep up the good work sir.

[@akivaweil5066]

100db? You are probably going to hear ringing as you get older.

[@detroyt232323]

@@akivaweil5066 as all of us rock and rollers do 😎🤘🎸

[@akivaweil5066]

@@detroyt232323 Whatever floats your boat...

[@FixItYerself]

4:04 way to use your head! not sure what's happening there, but it's mildly amusing. Was he soundproof testing or mentally off? 5:38 screw went too far and isnt going to hold the sheetrock becausw it punched through the paper.

[@randypaddy1866]

What about concrete walls

[@TrogdorBurnin8or]

Firecode recommends putting in horizontal blocking in a wall to prevent vertical sound transmission. How do you do that with a staggered stud wall without bridging the vibrations? Is that the reason why the drywall manufacturers list staggered stud as lower STC than a double wall?

[@eh_bailey]

It seems like these are more for energy efficiency rather than noise reduction. I would think a regular 2x6 walls with Rockwool will be a lot better than really good windows, so if you want windows... that is going to be the weak spot...

[@KingKong-bq7wt]

Green glue works but they overkill on marketing so they can overcharge for it, and they do big time! Plenty other products out there for way less just as good. Heavy Duty moving blankets mixed in with wall insulation work fantastic for sound absorption.

[@skyliner4610]

america never heard of cement and hollow bricks?

[@Theredeemedchild2]

The only way to go is having two walls both staggered with a 2x8. Put in R19 with 5/8 drywall (4 total)

[@jamesoncross7494]

There are better materials that take up less space.

[@soundproofguide]

I certainly agree. It’s all about how much someone is willing to spend and also what type of space they are trying to soundproof. Thanks for leaving a comment. 🙂

[@tarawiselove]

Please give examples. Thanks.

[@bluehorizon5149]

Green glue is just a 'gimmick' it ads Nothing !