Star Trek Discovery (Pilot Episodes) - re:View

[@Goshdarnet]

It breaks my heart to see these old Re:Views when they're talking about STD. Mike is trying so hard to be optimistic and to like it. It makes me so sad to think how badly they failed long time Star Trek fans like Mike. Meanwhile, Rich knew. Rich knew right from the start. Poor, jaded Rich.

[@BigCowProductions]

I found RLM from their Picard reviews. I've exhausted all of those and the TNG reviews, and now are watching these. Maaaaaan, poor Mike here. I can tell what you're saying for sure here.

[@JustABitJank]

@@BigCowProductions Yeah I just came back to this after watching their finale episode and goddamn its really insane how this seemed a bit jaded at the time, but now is such adorable naive optimism.

[@SEATACx]

As a super new fan of RLM going back and watching the old stuff, I'm feeling that heartbreak in reverse and it's somehow even more sad lol.

[@BigCowProductions]

@@SEATACx That's what I went through recently too

[@hexrisk]

Even more so now..

[@arthurchen6464]

"The ratings are nose-diving! Bring out Spock!!!" Mike Stoklasa, 2017

[@monsieurcondottiero2685]

a highly logical prediction 🖖

[@drbarx]

Watching this in 2022 it's clear that KurtzmanTrek has aged Mike at least a decade in the last 5 years.

[@mearl3977]

Don't forget about the amount of booze it takes to do best of the worst...

[@SaskDuder]

Star wars got the gray going in his mustache area, and Star Trek did the rest

[@landonny]

Rich Evans attempts to talk to a Star Trek encyclopedia.

[@arlostein1000]

Maladjusted man speaks to unstable obsessive

[@zagnorch1336]

I've always thought of Mike as the Star Trek encyclopedia's main text, and Rich the index and endnotes section.

[@landonny]

@@notmewtwo4044 I remember it like it was yesterday.

[@Nemcoification]

@@zagnorch1336 Does that make Jay the cover?

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

In the time of STP, I enjoy coming back and watching the boys when they were young and optimistic.

[@pingpong5877]

They were young?

[@BoleDaPole]

Biden is already a walking corpse, can't wait see him stumble through a second term

[@jasonexplosion154]

Look how they massacred my boys.

[@YouLousyKids]

It is *jarring* how hopeful they are that STD will try to be a good show. I just want to hug them and steer them away from the danger.

[@aarondavis8943]

Alex Kurtzman gave me an STD.

[@soulhound8739]

After the latest Picard review I came here to see the beginning of Mike’s decent into madness.

[@edmaldonado8207]

Me too.

[@Bozogumps]

Me too. They have hope again in season 3

[@imperialspy805]

Descent*

[@PlagueOfGripes]

I watched Orville for the first time right after Discovery. It's amazing how clear it is how one group of creators loves Star Trek, and the other wants to ride its corpse downhill.

[@R0B1NG5]

Which one is which?

[@Combiner81]

How bad is the Seth MacFarlanesness, though? Is he reeling it in?

[@OneColdMonkey]

I really hope they give Orville a chance to find itself. It seems like its got potential. Maybe regret over what Fox did to Firefly will help it get that chance.

[@AlvarazCMSB]

Hey I just got here from watching your new video, love your work!

[@brawlmaster89]

PlagueOfGripes plague did you finish that fence

[@keeleon]

I feel like if the new Star Trek is mostly about War, they should give it a different name. But for the life of me I can't think of one.

[@DarthEvilicus]

Like a war in the stars?

[@FrancoisDressler]

Battle of the Stars?

[@chewbokkiee9507]

STAR WARS you fucking idiots, but that's already taken obviously.

[@Michael_ORourke]

Star Trek: WAR

[@User-gs1dk]

Celestial Body of Hot Gas Military Conflict

[@smartalec2001]

The moment at the beginning, as Rich’s mind catches up with Mike’s abbreviations joke before the punchline, makes me chuckle every time.

[@JosefPiano]

He forgot ENT though

[@PaleBrownDot]

​@@JosefPiano Everyone forgets ENT

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

Remember when we used to be explorers? ~ Jean-Luc Picard, Nemesis.

[@dtm_666]

Actually, it's Insurrection, but whatever.

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

We all try to forget Insurrection.

[@alcosmic]

pewpewpewpewpewpew pewpewpewpewpewpew

[@GeorgeMonet]

@@pickeljarsforhillary102 Star Trek, His Erection.

[@JoelRiter]

@scorenut hey there buddy boy. You do realize that's always been Picard, but more notably, Star Trek, right? Like, Gene Roddenberry almost couldn't get Star Trek made because all the TV execs felt that way about Roddenberry. The new Star Treks are performative wokeness. You see, the older Star Trek was about exploration and trying to create, not a galactic empire but community. Almost like having different communities with different voices having a say and basic rights. Almost like an ideology based around communities and the rights of the individuals within those communities. With the societies deciding as a whole were resources go. Almost like a community ism or a social type of ism. Almost like media and culture in the US especially has always been conservative and quick to reject leftist ideas only allowing some ideas in as a way to be performatively woke to trick liberals into watching to make them feel ok about their meager lives and to give conservatives a reason to be angry to draw attention to the shit product for free advertising.

[@Edzhik]

Upon rewatching this one it kinda seems like Mike is in bargaining stage of grief and Rich has straight-up accepted that this show is bad and never will be anything else.

[@aaronwebb1548]

@@zeppelinboys Is that last one real?

[@SilverCyan]

"Let's go 15-20 years, where's the Federation at. Because then you can have cameos from Patrick Stewart..." Mike needs to stop giving people ideas

[@alesin1992]

Picard is Mike's fault. Spock in season 2 is Mike's fault. JJ Abrams directing episodes 7 and 9 is Mike's fault. Shut the fuck up Mike, you elderly grandmaster of tactical hackfraudery.

[@veespa_]

@@alesin1992 it’s like they watch these, take the worst ideas, & there’s one guy in the room that says, “uh… guys? They’re saying they want us to slow things down, focus on character dynamics, stick to the themes & formula of what made old Trek great. Shouldn’t we be seeing what we can do to get on that path?” Then, one of two things happens: 1) the guy says, “hahahaha I’m just kidding, why would we ever do some dumb bullshit like that?!” _OR_ 2) another writer in the room pulls out a gun, kills the first guy, & then they get an intern to bury the corpse.

[@alesin1992]

@@veespa_ They get the intern to write the script while they consume the corpse.

[@Wilburgur]

38:20 Oh. They predicted S2.

[@ibenholston]

WOWEEEE

[@redneckgopnik8164]

You old skooma Junkie ;D

[@noneed4me2n7]

Buckle Your Fuckle yeah but trying to sell it to normies is near impossible. It's nice to see that them getting a bigger fan base they still the same ole' a$$holes. Gotta luv em. I hope they keep doing this for years.

[@MovieMagic515]

@@noneed4me2n7 How? Just what

[@noneed4me2n7]

@@MovieMagic515 what? I don’t get what u want to know?

[@amiciprocul8501]

Fun fact: when you're commanding officer dies, the best thing to do to avenge them is to disobey their direct orders.

[@dodojesus4529]

@@westerling8436 but why though?

[@dodojesus4529]

@@westerling8436 why should i?

[@dodojesus4529]

@@westerling8436 you start screaming shut up the you say shut up because i said so, nah fam. And why did youbwant hjm to shut up in the first place?

[@dodojesus4529]

@@westerling8436 hehe you tell people to shut up...because, i don't think ive seen someone quite so precious before

[@dodojesus4529]

@@westerling8436 you come here telling people to shut up and don't even try to support that, i want a reason

[@Fusspilzsammler1]

Why does this Evans always have to mention that he's rich? That's so annoying. Hackfraud.

[@turtleanton6539]

Boastet

[@jacobberry5138]

He is throwin bait to get laid.

[@dontsubscribe8292]

@@jameslwjtoler what lawsuit?

[@TheGoonhole]

He made his millions doing the laugh for the rat creature in Jabba’s palace.

[@CareerTaxEvader]

He can be a real dick. Especially on his birthday

[@element6537]

Wow, Jay really let himself go. He also got an amazingly shrill laugh. I guess that's what hanging out with Mike does to you.

[@herpittyderpitty5309]

Don't forget about his crippling diabetus.

[@JeffToner]

Whos Jay? Do you mean Susan?

[@chaddubois8164]

Coming back to watch this after everything that happens with Discovery and Picard. It's like watching Mike and Rich in boot camp before they're shipped off to war.

[@urekmazino6519]

I'm sad about my experience with STD

[@kevarosenberg]

I enjoyed my STD experience lol

[@doggomcpuppers4784]

Urek Mazino mine left me with a strange burning sensation

[@themilanguy1]

@@doggomcpuppers4784 slide whistle

[@Vindsvelle]

4:30 "But, Star Trek isn't effects alone!" - *hand disappears behind superimposed screen*. Please tell me that was deliberate.

[@wraith1977]

Came back to rewatch these re:views. Mike was so hopeful, god bless him. 😂

[@CarlEmmoth]

Mike foresees Spock by only see the pilots. Impressive

[@mikekz4489]

The Orville also has an audience because they can watch it on platforms they already have.

[@Sines314]

Yah, that's a big seller. There are a lot of reasons I'm not interested in getting me some STD, but having to pay for it is the biggest practical reason. Although, they're also putting that young Sheldon Cooper on that streaming service too, and my girlfriend is a big Big Bang Theory fan, so maybe I'll end up getting access to it anyway.

[@czdaniel1]

Man, if you pay a girl for All-Access, she will give you STD

[@ScruffyLookin1138]

Right? The fact that someone would have to pay for a whole streaming service for a show that is called Star Trek but isn't really is asinine

[@bryanmcfadden4071]

@@Sines314 big bang theory is absolute gobshite

[@clearmountain28]

Its heartbreaking to rewatch this after their Picard reviews. Mike, and even Rich, had hope..........then new Trek killed it......

[@TheSelloutCrowd]

Mike still had light in his eyes back then.

[@TheLoremasterNojah]

"I didn't mean to say that the Discovery should be hauling garbage - I meant to say that it should be hauled away AS garbage."

[@Madman-ym8dh]

TheLoremasterNojah Don't you think you might want to rephrase that?

[@macgeek2004]

I love you both. XD

[@allenharper2928]

Madman Nope, original assesment was accurate. 😂😂😂

[@joshuatanner6409]

Ha that's a good one

[@WilAdams]

Great call back to the Tribbles episode of TOS

[@DeadHorse84]

Watching the review for 6,7,8 of Picard first and then going back to this really let's you see how much light has faded from Rich and Mike's eyes.

[@tonypine3434]

as steven segal once said 'without darkness, light can't exist.'

[@stranger59]

Who cares about Discovery? Just come back and talk about random Star Trek stuff every few weeks. Just ramble on for hours about Star Trek. I'd watch that. Talk about all the times Worf got beat up just to show how much stronger someone else was.

[@CJtheRad]

I'm good with that.

[@stevethegeck0]

Good to know you got your wish lol

[@scottfitzpatrick1939]

man its heart breaking how much Mike wanted to like STD. RIP star trek

[@grantmoore8790]

As a Star Wars fan who has never watched a single piece of Star Trek media, I enjoy watching these reviews because it provides insight into my own increasing insanity under Disney's Star Wars.

[@Hdarg]

Just watched this video 3 years after release. Oh Mike... you were filled with hope and trying to be positive with the future. He just didn't know what Alex Kurtzman was capable of doing. Just broke my heart seeing so much hope...

[@asfdasdful]

Working my way backwards through this anthology has been amazing. The best part is ill never watch a second of these shows.

[@vaporizejello]

Starship Shen Zhou. In Chinese Shen Zhou (神舟) actually means 'starship'. So... you're telling me you called it 'Starship Starship'? Smart.

[@silverschannel8578]

Well, literally it means "divine ship," not exactly the word for spaceship, and contemporary Chinese ships are actually called Shenzhou 1, or 2, or 3, or whatever. Spaceship in Mandarin would be 宇宙飞船 (space flying ship) or 飞船 (flying ship) for short

[@vectoor91]

Hey I'm from the future. SpaceX's upcoming spacecraft is literally just called starship.

[@donwald3436]

Sounds pretty woke.

[@MelindaColden]

godammit moon moon

[@arlostein1000]

The ship so nice they stuttered

[@allencampbell3350]

Rich nailed it with the Orville audience. That's why I watch it. It harkens back to when Trek had heart and charm.

[@whodatninja439]

Allen Campbell I mean it's basically a rip off of TNG with unfunny jokes, so if you just want that then sure

[@cezar211091]

+Patriot Cat How about..Star..Wars?

[@justsomeguywithsunglasses8418]

Because pandering and stupid jokes=charm

[@ScruffyLookin1138]

Allen Campbell the Orville isn't my cup of tea, especially because i don't find Seth Macfarlane funny. But based on the Pilot, it captures the feeling look of Star Trek more than STD. The music alone in the Pilot episode i think could fit into a Trek show.

[@ScruffyLookin1138]

Allen Campbell Allen Campbell the Orville isn't my cup of tea, especially because i don't find Seth Macfarlane funny. But based on the Pilot, it captures the feeling look of Star Trek more than STD. The music alone in the Pilot episode i think could fit into a Trek show.

[@silver6kraid]

Okay, seriously, Jay and Josh have to do a re:View of Twin Peaks the Return now that Mike and Rich did this, right?

[@daiselol]

please god, yes. so much for them to talk about

[@NEETfreak1]

I'm so happy I watched that Re:View before I saw the Return. It made me appreciate Laura's scream so much.

[@lolocaustsupplier1065]

I would only watch it if it took the form of a reenactment. Starring Rich Evans as no less than 5 characters, in the style of Eddie Murphy in The Nutty Professor remakes.

[@ChuckPalomo]

Ah Twin Peaks. I though there were still 10 episodes left when it ended suddenly and without warning. I still have blue balls from it.

[@NarcissistAU]

Yeah watching this now, wow, the fairness and gentle optimism they had. That we all had. Were we really so innocent/naïve? It feels like a Spielberg film from the 80's, not something we lived.

[@DreadPathZone]

I would really love to see one of these with Mike and rich discussing the first few episodes of The Orville. That's far more star-trek-y than discovery

[@kevarosenberg]

Discovery has yet to really begin tho, so how could you know?

[@joshuacalkins]

Rewatching this I am thinking “you poor bastards have no idea what’s coming.” And that idea about jumping forward 20 years to take advantage of 3 casts worth of appropriately aged actors...you poor, poor bastards. Edit: “ratings are down..bring out Spock!” You think they’d do that? Hahahaha

[@Spessforce]

Rereading this I am thinking “oh you had no idea just how bad it could get”.

[@RaymLovesEggs]

I miss TNG.

[@jinvid]

Raym Loves Eggs yep! TNG had Q!

[@JoshuaBeaverhousen]

Yaassss

[@doggomcpuppers4784]

Jin Luncheonmeats also the passion and effort that went into the story telling.

[@adamfrazer5150]

@@HC-qc5rp totally with you, I think the feeling will only grow. You've probably been force fed this suggestion already, but if you've not given Orville a shot, please do - after a handful of episodes it was clear (and I'm not a huge fan of McFarlane)how much care and genuine passion has gone into making the very closest to the spirit and atmosphere of TNG. I hope you enjoy it 🍻

[@oliviergagnon8719]

I miss cocaine

[@Faenwolf]

I am 100 percent with you. Especially Rich. TNG showed a world where I wanted to live in. The new show is just action pew pew in space. I miss having a crew I can relate to. TNG, DS9, VOY were like families. I don't like having this single main character structure so far... Should not have been a prequel, too. One good thing about Discovery though: Sound design was great. So many familiar Star Trek noises. That was nice... but look and sound don't make up for plot and character design.

[@Faenwolf]

Unfortunately here in germany there is no legal way to watch Orville yet - But I hope some streaming service or network will pick that one up.

[@christiegreenwood2642]

Good Lord, it's been two episodes. AS IF the crew of DS9 had felt like family after the frigging pilot. You know, when that show aired, there was a lot of bitching about how different it is, too. What the hell happened to IDIC? This fandom is truly the epitome of angry, entitled geekiness. Crikey.

[@Faenwolf]

Angry and entitled... Sure. Whatever you say.

[@doncoyote68]

@Christie Greenwood For me I'm giving the show a season or so to grow into itself. But I completely understand why people might want any Star Trek show to be the best kind of show. I think with Star Trek people should be allowed to hold it to very high standards. It's a franchise with a huge legacy behind it. Also I don't see most people being particular angry.

[@davidhenriksson285]

Faenwolf Just like the new star wars. Bombarding us with shit so we are to tired to see the flaws

[@tygrahof9268]

Pointing out the coffee stain made me lose it. Classic Star Trek set!

[@DDX1944]

Is absolutely heartbreaking coming back to see these reviews...Insane how hopeful and lenient Mike was, while it was actually Rich that was kinda smelling the shit from 2 miles away. Although Mike at the end did recover by predicting spock lmao

[@chance2smoke]

I just have to point out Nemoy's subtle yet convincing job of personal doubt and shame in the scene at 34:26. The power of mom.

[@Blade_Runner_79]

They misspelled the word *PROPHECY* in the Klingon speech. And that prophecy is one of the main plot points driving the whole series. How do you botch that?! They went through all the effort of clearly enunciating the Klingon language and having the fancy font but they missed the simple thing of spelling the word correctly (even after being reviewed by innumerable editors and spell checking). I think that is indicative of this whole series; they miss essential details but lavish attention on a lot of window dressing.

[@elduderino1635]

Welcome to modern Hollyschmock!

[@musicamaxima]

I haven’t seen this ep in for ever but was it prophecy or prophesy? Both are words they just mean different things.

[@jemmrich]

The Klingons look like all their faces swelled up from being stung by a hoard of space bees.

[@tyrgoossens]

Someone smuggled a tribble onboard and they're having a really bad allergic reaction. I don't know why so many people seem to like the new klingons, I can't tell any of them apart.

[@craigs71]

It's pretty hard to see emotions with the new klingons due to the overdone makeup, I do like the 'we come in peace' blurb followed later by a battle?!

[@beelzibubbles]

They look like they for some reason interbred with the Cardassians.

[@Nieghorn]

I thought they were Uruk Hai, but clean shaven and with their best clothes on. :D

[@kalishinko]

"This is 2017. You can't make Star Trek: Voyager anymore." Tell that to Seth MacFarlane.

[@jackboothe9216]

tbf there's no time for voyager

[@arlostein1000]

You forgot his title Seth (plagiarist) McFarlane

[@thenotmangaman8885]

arlo stein Jimmy Corrigan

[@bertimusprime7900]

The biggest difference between the changes to Klingons between TOS and TNG, and between DS9 and STD is that TOS had barely a year of development, but there was over a decade of development of them as a race and culture across multiple series.

[@kanothe187]

The Klingons look like the bastard offspring of TNG Klingons and Prometheus Engineers cosplaying with Man of Steel Kryptonian costumes.

[@floppywalrus409]

No No you say that like it's a bad thing 😏

[@Sines314]

I hate the design. They look so fundamentally different. They look more like Cardassians than any Klingons we've seen so far. I don't mind updating the look a little bit, but if you didn't tell me they were klingons, I would never have guessed. Sure, there was a huge change going from TOS to the films and TNG, but that was because they went from having no budget, to having a budget. There was no reason to change them like this. I'll take the criticism back if there is a reason for this new look though. Maybe it's tied into the augment virus. As silly of an excuse for smooth foreheaded TNG Klingons as it was, there is actually good story-telling potential in seeing how the Klingons deal with that virus.

[@jonathanhernandez3292]

No No they look like giant dried prunes

[@thetramp123]

At least they don't fly around in those small Kryptonian penis ships from Man of Steel

[@omnivorousbiped2447]

This is the best RLM content in recent memory. I'd watch you two jabber for another hour.

[@gloryon5609]

i never saw a single episode of STD and i watching all of this videos like 10th time

[@nicolasmontes7207]

The Klingons are going to be like the White Walkers. Every episode its gonna be "They´re coming!"

[@Trillykins]

I saw the trailer for The Orville and thought it looked like absolute shit. Saw the series (after word-of-mouth informed me that the trailer completely misrepresents the series as a Star Trek parody) and ended up enjoyed it quite a bit. Considering the RT disparity between critics and audience, I'm not the only one. Feels like Star Trek TNG, but with a crew that isn't the paragon of humanity. Yeah, the budget clearly isn't super large and it has flaws, but the time flew by while watching the show and has generally done a good job of subverting my expectations. Saw Star Trek Discovery, a show critics have praised, which has amazing visuals and a seemingly unlimited budget, and thought it was garbage. I could barely make it through the pilot episodes. The writing in this was fucking awful. I'm not a Star Trek fan, so it has nothing to do with it not being Star Trek enough or whatever. It's entirely due to how shit the writing is. The Klingons just made me laugh. Yeah, I appreciate the attempt making everyone speak Klingon, but it sounds stupid and it impedes the actors ability to, you know, act, and everyone else is speaking English anyway, so there's literally no reason for it and you're making the scenes worse by doing it. Also, the mouth prosthetic was a mistake. You can clearly hear the actors struggle to talk with it, which further ruins their performances. When I saw the show was created by Alex Kurtzman, the writer of such amazing shit as Transformers II, Star Trek: Into Darkness, and The Mummy 2017, it finally made sense why it was such a mess.

[@thinkstump]

Nothing has ever snapped me back into my 90's childhood like seeing that TNG commercial ad. Holy damn. It was sharp as an olfactory triggered memory. Love you RLM

[@bobsaggat]

How many years before they do a remake of quantum leap? Only DARKER!?!?

[@Plaguewielder88]

Jon Deal and AIRWOLF

[@kevarosenberg]

Quantum Leap did get dark tho, and the last episode was very unusual and sad. I cried

[@TheAtlasReview]

Rich is right about everything ever, except his insistence against retro aesthetics in these things. A consistent style and continuity is more important than looking futuristic, like how Alien should look like bulky CRTs and pipes. That's what people want to see, not holograms. You can easily have a hybrid that looks retro and sleek, Doctor Who pulls it off.

[@GOLDFISH817]

It would still need an upgrade

[@BoleDaPole]

He's just mad bc the show doesn't cater to nerdy white guys anymore.

[@SaulGoodman3D2049]

@@BoleDaPole Star Trek has not been exclusively catering to nerdy white guys as far back as DS9.

[@thecpmr6276]

Actually, the doctor who thing is a good point. There's something to be said about a long series with consistent continuity. That IS coming from someone who hasn't seen much of TOS, mind you.

[@youtubeaccount697]

@@BoleDaPole ?

[@doctorjoyboylove]

I disagree with Geordie LaForge having no character. In fact, when I was young, he was the one human character I could relate the most to, because he was very talented (I wanted to be), kind (I considered myself to be), but was also very unsure especially with women (I definitely was). His problems were a main issue in "Booby Trap", which was always one of my favourite episodes. I think Harry Kim was ment in the same direction but was not developed as much as a character.

[@kushan101]

Late to the party, as always, but i agree. I liked Kim for all the same reasons you listed liking Geordie for.

[@Hunpecked]

I remember "Booby Trap". I was yelling at the TV, "Don't take the ship in there! Send a shuttle! Send a shuttle, you morons!" I hate it when the heroes have to be retarded in order to advance the plot. 😀

[@axenledgie1423]

Kim and Geordi were the modest characters in their respective series, which I like.

[@leydensjar]

I laughed when Mike's hand disappeared when he started talking about special effects... 4:33

[@Jouzujoe]

Sean Elliott Good catch! It was like spotting this in a recent AVGN video.

[@lqcrow]

I love Rich's slow, building laughter as he gets where Mike is explaining abbreviations.

[@socialmedia4637]

Glad they showed 18:21 Day of the Dove - I always thought it was kinda funny how they kept Shatner's reaction to being slapped on the back by Micheal Ansara. He instinctively wanted to hit back because it stung!

[@CarlSlime]

The most appropriately RLM way to start an episode.

[@tsnap84]

I absolutely love your Star Trek discussions. Please revisit this show after some episodes pass.

[@conrad1on]

I was surprised how much the guys here seemed to like the show. Certainly more than I did.

[@jackboothe9216]

i notice they haven't come back to talk about subsequent episodes yet...time will tell i guess. i found myself saying out loud during the third or fourth episode "oh, fuck you" over and over again...so, michael burnham hasn't grown on me yet, but, maybe that's just me.

[@conrad1on]

+Lee Yates I'm not familiar enough with how they do things to know if it's unusual or not that they haven't returned to it. It's not just you either; I'm not sure I've seen anyone claim they like her. They should kill her off and make the captain the main character, like he should have been in the first place

[@ToumalRakesh]

They caught on to the fact that STD is a Kurtzmanian dumpster fire by now. They gave it more leeway than it deserved back then.

[@bmcelvan]

How many episodes of TNG were there that did not include ANY ship firing? Now you can't have a show or movie like that ("Sooooo many lightsabers on the screen at one time"). To me, that's sad...it's like we're not allowed to use our brains anymore to feel...we have to be shown how to feel...which is stupid!

[@aBoogivogi]

Also I strongly dislike that ship phasers have gone from slightly more realistic solid beams of which they typically have only one or two to a shit ton of small laser cannons scattered about the ship. It just makes the whole scene look like a massive clusterfuck making it impossible to see what is actually happening and judge the consequences. It's like when the shenshu lost 3 decks. That sort of thing would mean the enterprise would be more or less out of commission or hightailing it out of there. Instead they just zip around shooting as though nothing had happened. The stakes have no time to sink in and the show pays them no concern so why should we as an audience care?

[@tr11251]

Not even a trekkie but Picard saying 'let's see what's out there' gives me a little tingle up my spine also this channel needs just more guys sitting around talking about their favourite tng episodes involving data

[@derpotheday3897]

Why TNG Was Perfect: 178 Episodes.

[@freedone.]

There are a lot of Star Trek apologists who are trying to explain why they think STD is good. It reminds me a lot of the Seinfeld episode when George was trying to break up with a woman and kept telling her all of his faults. Even when George told her he was gay she STILL was okay with it - in complete denial - which also made it funny and absurd. This new Star Trek show is absurd and unlikable despite a lot of money and talent. The Orville is a solid show. I've also been watching Dark Matter which is excellent. The new Star Trek is just a shadow of what makes Trek great.

[@GeorgeMonet]

She wasn't ok with George being gay. Rather she didn't believe that George was gay.

[@mouser98k]

Thanks for the heads up on The Orville. I'm a trekkie but I never heard of it. Watching Ep 1 now, it's hilarious

[@Odysseun]

I'm still hoping amazon or netflix picks up dark matter 😔

[@SB0780]

There was an albino Klingon in the Deep Space Nine episode 'Blood Oath'. And other races such as the Bajorans, Cardassians and Romulans - I thought they gave those races a lot of variations. Great review!

[@nealho]

SB0780 They never specified he was Klingon.

[@vertexedgeface3141]

I think there were some major science related plot holes (science holes?). Hologram Sarek said something along the lines of "I noticed a new star in the sky" in reference to the klingon ship lighting the beacon. Later it was said that Vulcan was thousands of light-years away from the confrontation, so wouldn't it have taken thousands of years for the light to reach Vulcan?

[@davidshan1231]

You see, it's subspace light.

[@64bitcrafts]

Or the time Michael used a breach in one force-field to propel herself through space, but the hole in the one receiving her didn't do the same thing and prevent her from entering the ship.

[@alexcatamo4168]

I raised my eyebrow at that too. But they state in the show that it's a subspace signal. Subspace is the Star Trek basis for communications and transportation faster than light. I took it to mean that light was traveling through subspace at faster than light speeds, or maybe that the signal generates regular light while itself traveling FTL.

[@alexcatamo4168]

I don't know if we need to examine the practical why when it comes to an ancient and symbolic device used to rally a warrior race. They probably wanted something which could be seen whether the viewer had a subspace radio or not. As far as the power thing yeah, maybe. We don't know the rules of subspace. If crossing lightyears via subspace is the same as crossing kilometers in regular space, then it only needs to be as bright as anything else which shines as brightly as a star for a few seconds. We can do that now with nuclear bombs. Besides Star Trek is full of casually attainable super weapons. Like how any idiot can get a spaceship capable of being flown into a planet at warp speed. Or you could hack a transporter so it turns people inside out, or transports them inside rocks.

[@alexcatamo4168]

Also, to clarify, I meant that the signal itself might have created light. Or maybe powerful subspace signals energize our retinas so they're visible like light. I don't know because subspace is made up, and instead of making up rules they mainly just make up effects. All we can really do is ask if what they made up this time disagrees with what they've made up before. I dunno though, maybe there's an episode where Dax or someone is like "You can never use a subspace signal to make a brief emission of bright light." Hit me up with the ep. number if you find it.

[@XtoriezNovel]

Star Trek was supposed to be clean, bright and friendly. Star Wars was supposed to be the anti-trek, dirty, dark and filthy. Somewhere along the line they merged and met in the middle.

[@ladyhm.6748]

Where do you get that impression of Star Wars?

[@stevenwright7070]

@@ladyhm.6748 star trek feels more clean and star war have a more gritty

[@Canadish]

@@ladyhm.6748 The old Star Wars always had an oily, greasy look to its ships. They were dirty and rough, because they draw on the feeling of Western movies, and gave our heros a working class feel to them. The Empire was always clean, cold and sterile by contrast. Star Wars is a dystopia that is fixed via the movies events. Star Trek was always utopian, so the ships were bright, warm and appealing looking.

[@cristianmassad8999]

Now, the door is opened to a Twin Peaks The return review, please Jay, go ahead and do it!

[@cristianmassad8999]

The same here, it was wonderful, scary, trascendental, the best thing i ever seen.

[@kenchun24]

Yes! Jay and Neckbeard TP:The Return RE:view

[@rahn45]

The Orville: You'll probably feel happier after watching it. STD: You'll probably feel sad after watching it.

[@gtc9966]

I'm watching both to level me out..

[@ZiPolishHammer]

Heroin: You'll probably feel happier after doing it.

[@SquierStrat72]

The Orville: I DO feel happier after watching it. STD: I feel like I almost caught an std from watching it.

[@Marssnowable]

I wanted to like the orville.. but theres no subtlety to the jokes, theyre like someone threw family guy jokes into a star trek show.

[@sweptay]

I liked the Orville, it's better when they're not going out of their way just for the sake of a joke, but it didn't kill it for me.

[@Heliosphan15]

The beginning of the end. Anyone else remember the Return of the Jedi commentary when Rich said “nothing has ever managed to completely FUCK Star Trek”.

[@requiem4ameme2]

You know, Mike's reference to STDs really reminded me of that one episode of Star Trek where Wesley contracts Alien Super AIDS and Janeway ejects him into space.

[@nox5555]

I would like a spin off series based on the dieing wesley slowly floating in space.

[@gabrielsilverio1192]

This is the best sentence in the history of everything.

[@naapalm82]

The Klingon empire sang ballads of the event! The ferangi stock market soared! And all the Vulcans noted that a great source of illogic was eliminated from the galaxy! Even harry kim grew a pair!

[@heirofaniu]

Doesn't he infect her later and then they both mutate and get it on as gross lizard aliens in that episode? Or was this a different one?

[@Razermund]

Shut up Wesley

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

Klingons now look more like they belong to the Xindi.

[@emperormarcusaureliusanton5995]

William Fenton and I was just about to entirely forget the Xindi

[@shakezoola1114]

I thought the Kzindi were more interesting than the Xindi.

[@marianomosquera1995]

I've watched all these reviews starting from the last one and coming all the way up to this one and oh my God how optimistic and beautifully naive you guys were. You were so happy.

[@onen6942]

@35:34 Superweapon threatening the alpha quadrant? Mike literally guessed the plot for season 2 while covering the pilot, goddamn

[@ficha13]

So if you're doing this, where the hell is the re:View for Twin Peaks? :D

[@impuri7y]

lol that would be a jay only re:View

[@ficha13]

you mean Jay and Josh, they did do a Fire walk with me re:view, they're both fans :)

[@LowellMorgan]

You do have Star Trek fans among you viewers. We'd appreciate you doing more discussions like this since you know Star Trek and aren't total wankers.

[@gryphon9507]

Orville kicks this things ass as a place I would want to live in. This was pretty JJ verse effects, but I can't stand this universe CBS has written.

[@nRommeln]

Star Trek Discovery should be renamed 'Star Trek : WAAAAARRRRRRRRRR'

[@edmundscycles1]

NormandySR5 we need orks, some space marines maybe some imperial guard. Then we can have a waaarhhhhhh

[@krumplethemal8831]

STD is a perfect acronym for the show, it's something you don't want when you want something cool.

[@nazlfrag]

Totally disappointed that this wasn't half an hour about the Orville.

[@nazlfrag]

I guess you hated TNG too then?

[@TreyWait]

Speaking of geeky Star Trek things, and needing a new conflict that *isn't* war. Does any remember the episode of TNG where a scientist killed himself proving that warp drives were actually destroying the fabric of space, and they wondered what the hell they were going to do because they realized they wouldn't be able to use warp drives to speed across the galaxy anymore? And then... it's never mentions again.

[@TreyWait]

The problem was that the wrote themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of. The whole TNG universe would have been impossible without warp engines, but that's what makes it such an interesting dilemma. Imagine the TNG universe where it suddenly takes years to reach the next system again and warp drives are 'against the law', and everyone is searching for a new solution to faster than light flight. Opportunity lost.

[@garblechunk]

True, you can hand-waive it away, but the point is it's a very interesting conflict that can create new stories that aren't just STAB THE SPACE ORCS IN THE FACE BOOOOM LASER BEAM!!!!

[@mattlandrie6078]

Tech is usually the answer in Star Trek. The Federation starts using new Space-Time Friction Reducing Warp Drives in all their new ships and they figure out some way to repair and essentially repave quadrants of space showing stress and weakness.

[@xtieburn]

Its actually mentioned repeatedly. In the episode they decide that they should route round damaged areas and the ships are limited to about Warp 5, and thats exactly what they do pretty much as far as Star Trek has ever gone. In multiple episodes they have to confirm reasons for breaking those rules and otherwise stay at around Warp 5. (Even by the time of the E.) It also wouldnt fit in the framework of TNG that was a one story to a maximum of two episodes, it was always going to be consigned to the background. I see where you are going with it being a good idea for a non-war reason for a lot of issues, even the episode mentions that a bunch of races probably wouldnt comply with the rules, and for a long form story series perhaps they could come up with a deeper issue in the same vein to do it*, but as far as TNG goes it was actually one of the few times a story element did actually have far reaching consequences. Edit: To just go full geek on this. Voyagers waggly pylons were actually meant to mitigate the damage done, but there are hints that the technology isnt perfect, or at least fully tested. *Alternatively you could have some weapon or something bust up space for warp travel, then start a series when that issue is fixed. Similar to what has happened in a few games and bits of sci-fi, leading to rediscovering the state of chunks of those universes that ended up isolated for a long time.

[@macgeek2004]

+Trey Wait Actually, I think they *DID* bring that concept back up in Voyager, but when they did it, it was more of an allegory against nuclear weapons than against pollution or global warming. For more information, search Memory Alpha for "The Omega Particle" or watch the Voyager episode "The Omega Directive."

[@sageparra4956]

The fact that the show runners didn’t think about the acronym is yet another indicator that they don’t get Star Trek, minor as it might be.

[@TheColonelKlink]

I gotta say. The closer I get to the future the more disappointing it appears.

[@czdaniel1]

+Klink -- "They promised us flying cars & hoverboards...what we got was 140-charachters"

[@TheColonelKlink]

czdaniel1 You said it. Big lol. :)

[@marcrollins]

Howd o you get closer to the future?

[@Stand_By_For_Mind_Control]

Pepsi didn't even make commemorative bottles back in 2015 that had that upside-down look. That was entirely disappointing because it was 100% doable.

[@AxelBrass]

Ready Player One seems like a more likely future the older I get. Who needs reality when you can just keep escaping from it? :(

[@RGDcommentnode]

The girl with the robot head shows that while genetic engineering is a big no-no in Star Trek, people go hog wild with cybernetics. Great future.

[@dastractionwolfkagmi2937]

I don't think she was human.

[@CarlosFontes]

Daft Punk FTW

[@84jesterx]

And finally affordable since there is no currency in the future.

[@bowenorcutt78]

"Star Trek is about a bright future" Figuratively AND literally, and this show failed at both!

[@TheQuietWelshman]

The first two episodes of Star Trek Discovery felt like a season finale of show we didn't see

[@LolFishFail]

Looking at the Orville reviews, Once again it looks like a blatant disconnect between critics and viewers.

[@charleynewman5057]

Look at Supergirl for the inverse of that. Critics give that shit show a 97% FUCKING NINETY-SEVEN!

[@chaotixtrekker5789]

Gaming with Mikey! Money drives the critics train

[@thefoundationofwhate]

wait so you cant criticize a show if it has a female lead? If a show is bad a show is bad who cares what gender the lead is.

[@wamphyrie7961]

If a critic says a show is good, don't watch it, if they say the show is bad, it will be amazing. With STD, the fans hate it, the critics love it. I ain't gonna watch it.

[@Lightscribe225]

For a show with 'Discovery' in the title, there wasn't much Discovering going on.

[@xerra3]

But Klingons had the same look for TNG, DS9, Voyager ... thats literally years and years of ST with the same look.

[@barzontus]

and the motion picture and enterprise too, so literally from '79 to '05. the tng klingon design is old enough it's probably married with kids

[@jacoblevenson7934]

@@barzontus and they were always supposed to look like that. TOS just didn't have the budget to make them look like that.

[@trekadam30]

@@jacoblevenson7934 EXACTLY!

[@connordavisj]

But you can have knobs and switches as a vision of the future. Alien: Isolation took the approach of retrofuturism in its design and this granted it a unique, gorgeous, and immediately identifiable look. You can't tell if you're looking at a new Star Wars or Alien or Star Trek movie anymore. It's boring. It takes away the visual identity of the series.

[@connordavisj]

ArcanePath360 Mate, Isolation is full of CRT's, computers running on physical reading, switches and knobs galore, beige plastics, and simple beeps and whirs. And it goes further. Everything from chairs and tables to toys and advertisements are designed from an 80's perspective that abandons modern visual forms and colors.

[@connordavisj]

Cristian Dumitrascu Of course I remember Muther, and to this day it remains a ridiculously unique looking room.

[@TeamZealand]

Since when is Mike a Star Trek fan?

[@820krx7]

The Klingons' hairline are symbolic of the franchise's age: In the 80s when it was in its 30s, it was receding, and now its over 60 and bald.

[@deadline93]

I just hate that they removed the hair it coulde save the new design so easily now they just look like inhuman monsters

[@stephencarroll4681]

If they really want to attract a wider audience, how about a Star Trek show that uses the rekindled interest in science and astronomy and blends the classic science side of Trek with popular culture by doing trippy, pop-science episodes? You have stuff like Neil deGrasse Tyson and Interstellar that are popular, Inception and Doctor Who, Stranger Things, even Vsauce and Mind-blowing Facts... if they want normies they should realize there's a massive audience who would be more happy to say "mind=blown" or "I learned more from this than 12 years of school" after you have episodes about spaghettification or fun paradoxes, or biological curiosities for alien races. I don't know if Trek fans would be chafed by the over-explaining of stuff for more casual viewers but they could certainly appreciate the focus on science rather than boom boom 'splosions and people endlessly punching each other in the face for "drama." You could also easily work in the political and ethical stuff that Trek fans want. In lieu of that you could still do a smart enough drama in the vein of Doctor Who which isn't always the most scientific but still has the wonder of discovery, and all you'd need to pull in an entire show-dedicated demo and balance the fan gender percentages is a few attractive leads (a la Sherlock, Doctor Who, Supernatural). Plus f they sacrifice their short-term greed and put it on Netflix in the US it has some practically guaranteed pop culture effects with the way Netflix is going. They have so many options for this to be a big hit. Instead they do something that turns most people off-- oh it's a dour space show, I don't want to watch that-- and alienates the core fanbase. It's just amazing how wrong the hands that Star Trek is in are.

[@venicebeachsportsnetwork6677]

It's even worse in Picard they even have a "magic tool"! There is not one example of interesting science used in interesting ways. Only explanation is science illiteracy in the writers room.

[@tamlandipper29]

You already wrote a more interesting unit of entertainment than the new show.

[@KenRosenbergGrad]

It's funny that Rich didn't notice at first, but Michael switching the phaser to kill is exactly the moment I decided I didn't like Star Trek Discovery. It was deliberate in a way that contradicted everything we were supposed to understand about her Vulcan upbringing, without being earned or emotionally well-presented.

[@alpharage1090]

There are less people watching STD than people watching Mike and Rich talk about it.

[@jcjaff571]

JAY! WE ARE STILL WAITING ON YOUR THOUGHTS ON TWIN PEAKS; THE RETURN. PLEASE LET US KNOW AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

[@petewadesays12]

Joshua Jaffee I'd love to hear more. I even go on Twitter to see his thoughts on Peaks. I assume he loved it. I sure did

[@ericpetschow1108]

Joshua Jaffee I know......wtf where is the review

[@jcjaff571]

I have no doubt, but I need to hear from him how much he loved it. I know it's probably weird or creepy but my Twin Peaks experience won't be complete until I can compare and contrast my thoughts to his.

[@BaxterBarclay]

Man, I'm just sitting here waiting for his Exorcist 3 review. Maybe this Halloween...

[@sephirothstein2943]

Joshua Jaffee problem is that probably none of the other hack frauds actually watched the one quality show this year

[@GeorgeMonet]

17:44 The bigger plothole about that light is that it is light. So it travels at the speed of light. Someone who is 300 lightyears away isn't going to see that light for 300 years because that is how long the light would take to reach their star system 300 lightYEARS away. Light only appears instantaneous to us on Earth because we are sending light at most a couple of hundred meters which looks instantaneous because the distance is so small. But if we wanted to send a light based message to Mars it would take approximately 20 minutes to reach Mars.

[@RudiRaichura]

Amazing being here after finally watching S1 of STD. I know how they hate the show and as such it’s so interesting how Mike likes the pilot and is optimistic for the future...

[@JCass42]

In all seriousness, this would be great to have semi regularly so I know what my opinion on each episode is.

[@welcomestranger]

Mike has so much hope. Now that S5 has finished I've gone back and started rewatching S1 which is the only season I've seen, so now I'll be able to watch all the other DISCO reviews and see Mike and Rich blow their brains out.

[@juergen4ever]

Mike and Rich gave up on S2.

[@welcomestranger]

@@juergen4everyeah I noticed that too.