Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S1E24: Well Always Have Paris

[@pdtraill]

As a proper fencer, the scoring lights are an actual scoring box we have now (and back in '88), just with a "body" overlay, and the outfits are pretty much the usual sabre kit. Impressive that they had the knowledge of the sport.

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

It would be neat if the rewrite version of this episode actually had Tasha in it. Not anyone major like Data or Worf meeting her, but just some random ensign being like "hey Lieutenant! Huh, I thought they said you died." and Yar, having absolutely no idea, is just like "nope, I'm fine."

[@kardy12]

Good catch on the Data/Picard scene - it’s subtle, but I remembered it in particular when watching the later episode on determining Data’s rights as an individual. It shows that Picard already at that stage saw Data as more than just a machine.

[@EnvisionerWill]

An interesting possibility that's consistent with the kind of stuff that happens in S1 TNG ("The Traveler" and so forth): The time distortions are not spread out across space to the distance of the Enterprise, but rather they are happening TO the Enterprise, specifically because Doctor Mannheim is going to be visiting it. In other words, the time distortions are localized to the people who were involved in creating them, and might appear at a location connected to that person, even slightly before they get there, because some "aura of personhood" is actually a component in the equation which created this time anomaly.

[@robertpratt101]

Me: "Computer, if anybody enters the Holodeck while I'm in there, create a waiting room in front of the arch so they don't see my (incredibly indecent) program" Computer: "Please specify the nature of the waiting room." Me: "I don't care. Just make sure I have enough time to get my pants back on."

[@TheDollarDes]

I do believe the holodeck is used for counseling Nog in DS9 in this capacity. Though not intentionally. In the episode 'It's only a Paper Moon' if I recall correctly.

[@Thori45]

Lol I wanted to mention exactly the same thing 😅

[@hereticalramza]

Nothing of note to add for this episode, I just wanted to say that watching your Ruminations are the highlights of my week. You make me think a lot more deeply about these shows, movies, and games than I normally would, and your analysis is excellent.

[@sharkdentures3247]

Seinfeld did a comedy bit about the 'disposable friendships' that strangers make on airplanes (or any transportation really). And I can attest to similar occurrences I have had on a bus trip. Sometimes, it is DEFINATELY easier to talk to a stranger than someone you know. (OR maybe its "someone who doesn't know YOU"? - As the internet has demonstrated, anonymity can be very freeing.)

[@DarthDJJD]

For those who did not know this, the guest actress is Michelle Phillips (a member of the pop band "The Mamas and the Papas").

[@EnvisionerWill]

I'll be surprised if the Picard show ends up working out any better than Han Solo's appearance in Episode 7 did, but in theory, I can understand why Stewart might love the idea of going back and playing this character again, because he really did have an incredibly deep and complex backstory. I hope that the show might include flashbacks including several consistent and similar-looking actors who all play earlier eras in Picard's life, so that the show can pursue a number of complex storylines which compare and contrast the various phases in Jean-Luc's life, with Stewart playing a very sedate role, almost as the host of this anthology, so that our magnificent old fellow doesn't have to bust his hump too much trying to recapture his action-star days, but the character which he's playing can still have action and romance and all sorts of other things that are hard for Stewart to pull off himself.

[@EnvisionerWill]

"It's me!" must have actually been the future Data, who has learned to use contractions, and every subsequent case where time travel works wrong (including the entirety of Enterprise) is just shockwaves in the spacetime continuum resulting from the fact that Present-Data failed his mission here.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

11:00 they do use a holodeck as a psychology tool in ST-LowerDecks (& do so in a very interesting way...)

[@bobwill]

I always felt, I have to give a thumbs up to the federation's surveillance services. Picard gives a date and time, and the computer gives him the young woman that he stood up. Unless, that cafe is just infamous for having men stand up women, all the time.

[@mapleicecream4819]

Perhaps the computer extrapolated this from the conversation that Picard had with the holographic waiter only a few moments before?

[@AdamCollings]

Yep. This bothered me so much that when I saw the name of the episode in the list on Netflix I audibly groaned.

[@oakleysierney1918]

As long as the data collected stayed in the holodeck's subroutines and wasn't available anywhere else I don't see a big problem with it. It's kind of like youtube suggesting videos that might be more relevant to me. With google/youtube, it's evil because they share and use the data in other ways though.

[@Tuvok_Shakur]

"It's me!!" Data doesn't use contractions because he doesn't understand why we use them. My head canon says he viewed every millisecond as critical, so at that point he uses a contraction to save time.

[@oakleysierney1918]

That's a ridiculous explanation " he doesn't understand why we use them. " It's very simple to understand it's efficient. That's like saying data can understand calculus but he doesn't understand what 1 + 1 is.

[@Tuvok_Shakur]

​@@oakleysierney1918 i thought i saw where he said that specifically, either way it saves milliseconds which is useful to an android.

[@williamozier918]

responding to your question at 6:20. Technically speaking ALL temporal incursions effect everything, everywhere in the entire universe. Even changing one person's life creates an alternate timeline, which is itself an ENTIRE universe right? But it seems that time ripples have less and less effect the further away. In other words the Manaheim effect is causing time skips in a 20 ltyr radius. However over in the Delta Quadrant about the biggest effect is that a single blade of grass moved to the left instead of the right, yet had no cumulative effect on anything. So in this model the Jem Hdar wouldn't notice anything because the biggest effect there is one atom might be a little out of whack but it had no larger cumulative effect.

[@oakleysierney1918]

Yup, it would be crazy to think that this scientist with the low level of technology he had relative to other civilizations could rock the entire universe. If that were the case the universe would constantly be being rocked because there would be someone somewhere like him doing experiments like this at any given time.

[@francoislacombe9071]

"I like to think that Section 31 paid Dr. Manheim a very long visit after this." I like to think the Q might have had a thing or two to say to him as well.

[@bobwill]

I think that under Relativity, even time is stuck at the speed of light, so, these temporal waves would just be moving out at the same speed as the light from the star. As in, the faster you go, the slower time goes, and when you hit the speed of light, time is frozen. So, nobody would feel them for years.

[@oakleysierney1918]

Unless it's something like quantum entanglement which happens instantly across any amount of space.

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

We need a supercut of all the little moments when Lore gets distracted by some random thing. Episodes written while your hair is still wet... there's a pen on the floor....my toe is bleeding...DIE ANT DIE.... it'd just be randomness personified.

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

The barclay situation is not as much of a problem, because they were specifically going there to catch him in the act of whatever he was doing instead of his job. But there are plenty of other examples where the lack of holodeck privacy comes up. Whenever I do another watch thru, I'll try to pinpoint it.

[@kitbashbob6426]

I have to go back and rewatch this episode!

[@athrunzala6919]

I had often wondered what other civilizations around the galaxy thought about the time effects too. Also considering the time effects from City on the Edge of Forever in TOS, they must think the Alpha quadrant is time crazy

[@oakleysierney1918]

It seems unlikely it would be felt everywhere. How could a race as primitive as humans at that time have such a strong effect on civilizations that are order's of magnitude more advanced. As LR said, think of the borg getting rattled around like that or some of the really really advanced ones, by this low tech guy tinkering with his experiments. It jsut doesn't make any sense.

[@kellykarjola1886]

The guy sounds like the main actor from Meet the Millers when they go to Mexico

[@littlehoot1234]

Only the finest restaurants can afford a professional bong stroker

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

Picard has the second biggest case of underthought in his career timeline we ever get. Exceeded only by Tuvok in Flashback, and of course he's a Vulcan so that sort of thing isn't a big deal.

[@timriggins70]

I remember when I first saw this my friend thought Troi needed to mind her own business.

[@mr51406]

I actually enjoyed it more this time. Im turning into an old softie… 🇫🇷Tourism: I have been to a “Café des Beaux-Arts,” 7 quai Malaquais in Paris. You can’t see the Eiffel Tower, but you can see the Louvre. All the computer needs is some street view style info and some photos from customers. The waiters the day I went were a lot cuter than the ones in the episode 😉. At least they got a real francophone actor!

[@AlucardNoir]

Heh, funny thing, I always - ALWAYS - forget Skin of Evil isn't the last season one episode.

[@devonanderson2902]

I really don't understand why Lore hates the joke at the end. I love it because it humanizes Picard by showing that he can sometimes relate to the crew.

[@oakleysierney1918]

Yea, I think most people appreciate after there is often some serious and tense stuff going down to have a lighthearted humorous moment to ease the tension and close out on. LR's iq is high, but idk about his eq.

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

He would probably say it's not an egregious example of those wah-wah endings, it's just AN example, and he was extremely tired of those at this point in history.

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

Ah, time travel. Just having it is a cool thing in any episode, unless any holes become too glaring and impeding for continuity. The mention of Manheim gets Picard's red flag up, which I liked. Subtle but sets it up effectively. The way Picard goes to the holodeck to try and reminisce or regret was a nice setup. I didn't notice Jenice's mention of the rain as compared to the holodeck version - a nod to how one's recollection of the past are ultimately imperfect, more than we think. It was interesting Dr Crusher's responses to the presence of Jenice Manheim. It's such a frustration that Dr Crusher and Picard's relationship got interrupted after this season, and wasn't the same anymore in season 3. It was pretty dangerous to transport to the lab below too. I didn't think it was the best idea, but I suppose they thought it was okay - at least the problems did surface and highlight some form of danger. The last scene back at the holodeck, they barely got to enjoy the scene - Id' say they barely got to have that final drink, or chat. Jenice strangely walked off right after their brief talk and doesn't stay to enjoy it. A good episode, a lot to like about it.

[@oakleysierney1918]

To your last point, I think she handled it just perfectly. Staying any longer would be treading on emotional cheating.

[@alexbogatiryov]

This was my first ever star trek episode-was so confused

[@tubeviewerX20]

I’m pretty sure Wesley is younger than 16 in season one.

[@timriggins70]

I thought he was 14 at the start of the season

[@rexremedy1733]

they should have called the spaceship class the "space hilton class" instead of "galaxy class"...

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

I sure hope that Picard gets to the Mannheims .... IN TIME !

[@ChocolatierRob]

Mannheim should have just studied holodeck technology, it is apparently the best way to time travel, perfect magical recreations of any time and location from the past, it even created the girl that he dumped there. I'm more inclined to believe the holodeck than the person who was actually there, yes she said it was raining that day but she was getting dumped and it affected her outlook, the computer is clearly magical so must be the one with the true unbiased version. You _may_ give props to the prop department but not to the deportment of the costuming department. That outfit for... whatsherface... was just horrific, it was like the very worst out of Buck Rodgers, even TOS had better 'future' clothing.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Lorerunner's approximate age confirmed!

[@williamozier918]

Go back and listen to Manaheim's exact definition of what happened when he entered the time rift. Does anyone think Manaheim actually saw The Prophets?

[@ThePerradox]

Waiting so much for you to reach the conclusion to this first series. Have no idea what you will say about that. But I'm sure it will be very worthwhile. :)

[@AdamCollings]

When seeing the title of this episode, all I could remember was that first scene in the holodeck. Picard asked for a particular place and time. And magically, it knew that his former girlfriend was there, that she was waiting for him, and how she was feeling about it. This always really bothered me, from the first time I saw it. It seems your interpretation is that the woman Picard was talking to was a random strange who just happened to also be waiting for a lover who hadn't shown up. The coincidence of this is equally absurd to me.

[@oakleysierney1918]

The theory is the holodeck listens to conversations and observs actions and it affects the way its projected characters act. It heard Picaard talking to the waiter about it first.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Nobody seems to have said it, so I guess I will - the Battle of Maxia.

[@jeffreymiller9438]

Michelle Phillips looks like she just walked in from the set of Buck Rogers. I am surprised Picard didn't call her Wilma. I thought the episode was interesting for the brief snippet of passive aggressiveness you see from Dr. Crusher. I always felt her relationship with Picard was a mishmash of contradictions. And her response to Jenice is a perfect example of this. She wants Picard, but only seems to hint at it in 'The Arsenal of Freedom' (discounting 'The Naked Now'). Later, when Picard makes genuine overtures, she demurs, saying she's happy with things the way they are. In the end, I think the answer to the conundrum is that she is just like him, she wants the full career, just as he does. You sense this when she leaves to Command Star Fleet Medical, and in 'All Good Things' when we find her a Captain.

[@permeus2nd]

ok think of the hell of been assimilated over and over :(

[@harpercole5321]

Not too much to add here - it's quite a fun episode, but doesn't stand out too much, strange to say considering that they save the universe. Actually, Jenice Manheim's tinfoil outfit stands out ...

[@rexremedy1733]

i digress in Paris which we will always have.

[@oakleysierney1918]

6:50 I have to disagree with you. The idea that it would be up to people remembering to check before entering the holodeck in case something was going on inside there is absurd. Of course it would be automatically announced, as it was by the computer, if someone tried to enter. People remembering to check is the opposite of good attention to detail here.

[@athrunzala6919]

Picards history dose go on forever, 33 years as Captain, yikes. What happened in the 20 years between the Stargazer court-martial and Picard getting the Enterprise? We don't know what he did. Everything is at least twenty years in the past, Khitomer incident, Enterprise-C, Data's activation, Stagazer destroyed. This gives me another question, why was there no Enterprise between C and D, that's a twenty year gap without a Flagship.

[@bobwill]

Athrun Zala it just wouldn’t have been named the enterprise. Right now, the CVN-65 was taken out of service in 2012. The Ford class Enterprise isn’t due for commissioning until 2024. The time gap between the CVN-6 going out of service was around 1945 (being literally the 6th aircraft carrier built in only the third or fourth class of carrier the US made prior to WWII meant she was terribly out of date for handling jet fighters and bombers after the war). And the CVN-65 wasn’t commissioned until 61.

[@Ozzy_2014]

Miri involves a parralel universe Earth. An advanced race called the Vela are involved. Advanced far beyond The Federation. The Department of Temporal Investigations novels a must read. It might explain the Roman Empire existing on another world. As for time travel yes it is not supposed to be allowed but somethings have to be allowed or future events won't happen that are uptime agencies past reality. Like Voyager. Without that bit of time travel the Borg conquer the Galaxy by the 29th Century. In fact in 51% of explored timelines they did. No voyager no stopping the Borg. The uptime agencies have jurisdiction and time travel that the DTI is not supposed to employ. They are after all investigators not temporal enforcement. Also Jenice I am amazed you didn't know was Michelle Philips of The Mamas and Papas fame. Hell of a looker in her youth. Still attractive even then.

[@Dlytell]

It troubled me that Data was going to fix the time thing by adding anti-matter but then three Datas appear, but only one was the right one to use the anti matter. How did he figure which one was the right one? Arbitrary solution. any one of the three was the right one. Ok it was the present one but any of the three could have been the present . Besides it should ahve been all three since they each were there to add anti matter,

[@Threesixtyci]

Well... at least the endings are better than those old he-man cartoons

[@williamozier918]

So the Manaheim Effect in this episode becomes an in-universe hand wave to explain away any small continuity gaffs.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

sorry, but the phrase "did something happen" makes no sense for the Prophets... for them "it Is" or "it Isn't", they are outside the timeline themselves

[@danielshottopics8187]

Well great new Kids CBS Viacom and Paramount are coming back together so we could potentially get a Post Voyager series, CBS/Viacom Merger: 'Star Trek' Movie and TV Canon Might Really Be Reunited www.inverse.com/article/43218-star-trek-canon-discovery-merger-cbs-movies-paramount-viacom