Star Wars: Legion Crucible Recap | Notorious Scoundrels S3E66

[@joshuapicaro8726]

While I was primed to hear more of clones good - I found Mike playing rebels and trying to make the underdogs good refreshing.

[@danieldosso2455]

We haven't had a points balance since 2.0, I'd expect a fairly heavy points change in the next patch.

[@jameswoodward280]

I'd like to see the rebel faction advantage card be one where you can play two command cards 1/game

[@isaacpendley5656]

I played Atoine at worlds first round and got put out by his 14act ewok list. It was a great game and he is a great player. He brought a chess clock just for himself to keep him honest and prevent him from slow playing. I see no problem with chess clock's at competitive tournaments. I have had so many games where slow playing has been an issue and it might not even be intentional but it doesn't change the fact that you have skewed outcomes due to the game ending before and accurate game state is achieved. I also think including them would just improve the communities ability to play a game faster. Also, while I am thankful the majority of the legion community wouldn't intentionally slow play to win. It's just a matter of time before we see players bring 20 plus acts and simply take there time to give an advantage. I love the idea of huge act list but you have to keep those lost honest somehow.

[@The_Cranky_Painter]

I appreciate the guys branching out and trying other factions to really get a grip on them. And for the people complaining about GAR, please remember that this is a competitive tournament podcast. The game plays completely different at that level to what it does on your kitchen table. As someone who has played Rebels, and against them, in the new edition, they definitely got a mix up! But I think that they're actually much better than people realize, because you're still using the old game mindset. Rebel troopers are glass cannons. A full 10-man squad with a Z6 hits like a truck. Playing against them as GAR turn 1 hurts, because you're pretty much guaranteed that the first unit you put on the table is dead. Possibly the first 2 if your opponent outplays you or gets lucky on dice. And Leia/Rebel officer is now the go-to hero combo for an insane amount of dodge tokens through Scanners and Exemplar. Yes, your corps dies easily. But you have a lot of them, and they become the embodiment of "I'm still alive on 1!" That's still a scoring unit, still contests Objectives, still requires another entire activation to kill. Nothing sucks worse then having to dedicate an entire ARC unit to kill one guy in order to score. The faction of heroic sacrifice and obnoxiously tanky heroes through Dodge/Backup shenanigans. Fleet Troopers/Bus is a brutal combination, especially if you give them Comm jammers. Turn 1 they're in your line screwing up your order control and making a mess in melee. Empire is REALLY hurting for the lack of Riot Troopers, and I feel like they're going to end up being a must-have unit to counter melee charges. The Marksman is too expensive to be useful though. Mike brings up a very good point. Rebels have a TON of heroes and way too many command cards... if you're thinking like old Legion or Shatterpoint, where you want to take them all. New Legion is about picking 1-2 heroes and building an army around them. There's a reason Han/Sabine is getting so much love, as is Leia/Chewbacca. Speaking of, Chewie is a sniper under the new rules. Bowcasters are wonderful for those moments when you need a guaranteed model taken off the table or to put damage on a vehicle. You definitely feel that the army is missing pieces though. This half-update leaves a lot up in the air. Looking forward to the new Rebel unit, though the Marksman is probably unplayable at the current cost. I think the Sleeper Cell combined with a unit or two of Sab Commandos is going to give a serious black eye to any units that try to rush into melee to secure objectives.

[@nrrrdking]

I prefer the SX-21 on the rebel troopers. Also bringing either a captain with SA or a Specialist is almost mandatory. Vets are still good but more defensive. They make great use of Covering Fire turn 1 with their range 4 heavy. You can use this to stack dodges on Leia or a rebel commander which can make for a tough nut to crack against long range armies that are usually trying to chip off wounds in round 1. I'm less impressed by fleets mainly because they have no defensive tech at all. People love to focus them down because they're easy wounds. I may try them with Force Barrier Luke/Ahsoka or Chewy for guardian but I don't expect them to ever actually make contact with an smart enemy. I might try them with a bus tonight

[@The_Cranky_Painter]

@@nrrrdking I think the biggest thing tripping people up about rebels is the feeling of needing to keep your people alive. Rebels die, a lot. The trick is to do as much damage as possible on turns 1 and 2, and trade up on points. It's much more like Armada in that regard now. By the end if the game, most of your units are alive on one or two models... But that's still a scoring unit that contests objectives. Only named characters get out alive! I had that bus/fleet+shotgun+jammer list absolutely wreck me one game as empire. No orders from Veers to half my army, no coordinate to shores or eweb.

[@muxamoose1012]

I have played a echo base with 6 vets and turrets and the FD, all with prepared and then play the stand by card and basically prevent a unit from even getting on the board without getting shot to high hell, it was pretty effective

[@owenwright1491]

I'm running cassian, Luke com, Mando, K2, bad batch. It's a lot of command card choice but that's kind of why I'm using it. It's putting questions into your opponent's mind as to what you took

[@davidluke6015]

One thing I noticed from Crucible was turn 1 lasts about 40-50 minutes, even with 10 acts per side. Later turns were faster of course. And I think most games got through turn 4, if not turn 5. One game Saturday went to hard dice down as I recall.

[@jameswoodward280]

We didnt even finish round 3 before it went to time. Neither of us were slow playing. It was just crazy fast

[@travisskane5459]

Thanks for all the thoughts about the faction I hold dear: this next AMG announcement has me curious to see what will be being talked about around this time next year. LaNdo gOoD nOw???

[@Lewismarty1]

Regarding the tournament legality of mega activation lists (approx 18mins in), other games like Bolt Action enforce activation number limits with no drama I’m open to a max being implemented once we have a larger sample size

[@nrrrdking]

I do agree that Rebel order control is horrible. It has been my main complaint so far. There are some tricks (covering fire with vets and mk 2s, Sieze the initiative especially on cards like No Time for Sorrows) but generally I just try to get orders on whatever heroes or key units I can and lean on Improvised Orders where it makes sense. But those are just half measures really.

[@owenwright1491]

To deal with spamming people need to take the anti spam stuff. IG11, boba, Mando, grevious, anything with arsenal 2+ Heavies with 4+ dice suddenly have a place again

[@owenwright1491]

Worth remembering that 22 Rebel units is 84 wounds. Easily done

[@nickknackety]

Austin killed 20/21 units

[@jamesreed2475]

I dont want to hear any bitching and moaning when ARCs go up 10 pts + and Anakin goes up 30 pts. We can't have nice things because top players are more interested in their ranking than coming up with an original army concept.

[@samstark210]

as a republic player, I think this needs to happen

[@owenwright1491]

The Rebel 22 activation list that is possible loses to the 19 activation imperial one due to red saves

[@joshuataylor7213]

I mean, list building guidelines allow for a rebel spam list. Why would you bar it? Time is not a good argument. Spamming is a faction trait for empire-era armies. On the subject of time, chess clocks should have always been a thing in a tournament setting. It's the only way to actually control the time per player variable, and it's reasonable to demand equitability on that front. Or, games last all 5 rounds regardless, which isn't feasible.

[@gregpap3906]

Soo, Anakin good. Got it. Thanks ! Also, You spoke about streamed games, is there a place I can still watch them?

[@nhspharmacist4688]

Yavin base on youtube. Live section.

[@agudarkshadow2418]

You guys just might be over reacting. But the detachment rules are totally fine. And its the only way that it lets you takes striketeams at all. Seeing how they all have detachment without the new detachment rules you would only be able to take 1. 2 normal SF and 1 strike and you already met the 3 max. You guys always talked about the force org needed updated/adjusted it got that and then you complain about it.

[@jgpoteet2759]

Clones are broken but let’s talk about rebels

[@elilieb2073]

Rebels gotta run mandos and medics to be viable imo, and just one or two heroes max

[@elilieb2073]

The full arcs being as good as they are is reason to give mandos charge and/or an extra dice per models on attacks

[@elilieb2073]

I think a total generic Mando redesign is in order, 2 health per model, red surgeless defense, reliable 1 or 2 (instead of one health per model and surge to block), and then make them speed 2 and range 3 with their guns Or, keep as is, and increase the naked unit size from 3 to 4

[@owenwright1491]

I'm 6-1 with hero hammer

[@pashaw3042]

Hey when is the fifth trooper store coming back?

[@RyanEdwardsVA]

I'm wondering the same. I have an order that I've heard nothing about for over a month, and can't get an email back from them. I suspect they're very busy but it's still concerning.

[@nickknackety]

My concern is that the rebel corps did get an update and they still feel terrible. 75 pt commados with 4 red hv just make their agile 1 irrelevant. Maybe let them dodge hv? Idk its tough. I think Fleets should get tactical 1 like arcs. That would be fun.

[@Trinine9]

Take Din with Grogu feed him tokens and take The Hand Thing card and NEVER TAKE THE RIFLE. Take the spear don’t bother with force users rebel ones cost too much and can’t do enough to make back points and my lists run 2 trucks for token support and mobile line of sight blocking and relatively durable for the points investment the rest of the list can make up whatever you want to put in there because all the units you can take pretty much perform the same regardless of the unit oh and Mando units are bad way too many points for what you get

[@StormtrooperYD]

Clones Dominate Move Along,Move Along

[@nrrrdking]

While I am heartened to see that you guys are making (what sounds like) a serious attempt to actually play rebel units before dunking on them. I am still finding the conversation here to be a little awkward and not very productive or constructive. Are Rebels in a position to be sweeping tournaments? Certainly not. But they're a faction that's hard to play well. I know it's frustrating to go from a completely over-tuned faction with extremely straightforward and cost-effective units to rebels units that give no margin of error and demand unorthodox strategies to play. There are no comfortable choices in a Rebel army list. You have to learn how to play that way. A big clue here was Mike *complaining* about how Rebels have too many good command cards. Is that really a flaw? Or is it that you don't know how to build a command hand without the game holding your hand and saying "play these three cards and win" Keep trying. I'm interested to see the journey.

[@ahtf184]

Well if you watch earlier reports from tournaments rebels have performed very underwhelming. The critic about command cards was specifically for turn 1 cards. The comment on 3 pip wasn’t complaint, it was just a reason for not taking certain cards.

[@nrrrdking]

There were actually two rebel players that qualified for the top cut. One dropped so that they could go to Disney world. If you look closely at results, the Rebel win rate at crucible was actually higher than both CIS and Empire(though sample sizes are small here). There is an echo chamber that is shouting REBELS BAD. On top of that a couple of Republic units are way over tuned (ARCs and Anakin) and they have a battle force that leans hard into those two units with the eventual winner being the one spamming ARCs the most.

[@ahtf184]

@@nrrrdkingi guess we will see :) my feel is also that white saves crumble. And I don’t really count 21 activation list as a “real” one. I so hope that doesn’t become a thing.

[@grants565]

I think there should be an activation cap. While it is proven to be beatable, it’s definitely an outlier and can kill the enjoyment of a tournament. When you wipe an entire list worth of acts (12+) and can still lose out I think that’s where the enforcement should come into play