Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Fans Vs Critics (Spoilers)

‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ directed by Rian Johnson and starring Daisy Ridley, Andy Serkis, Gwendoline Christie, Domhnall Gleeson, Mark Hamill, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Laura Dern and Kelly Marie Tran premiered to the second highest opening ever domestically. The film with a two and half hour runtime is follows further the storylines of returning characters Rey, Kylo Ren, Luke Skywalker, General Leia, Finn, Poe Dameron, Genera Hux and Supreme Leader Snoke. Rian Johnson and the production team made some bold decisions and unexpected changes to the mythology in ‘The Last Jedi’. Some fans have been voicing their displeasure loudly online and it may be the reason for the huge discrepancy between the Critics Score and the Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. Kristian Harloff, Mark Ellis, Perri Nemiroff and John Rocha are here to discuss the issues behind the discrepancies and offer their opinions on some of the bold decisions Rian Johnson made with the film.
See if you agree with panel’s thoughts on the seeming divide between fans and critics over these deleted scenes and leave us your thoughts in the Comments section below. Remember to Like this video, Subscribe to this channel and Share it with your followers on your social media.
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[@mcgonnekm]

Does Mark Ellis know that the company he works for posts videos that exploits those fan theories for likes and views?

[@Mjlondeck]

that seriously pissed me off. might be the first time i've ever been pissed off at ellis lol

[@anthonyholmes9501]

Dude, seriously. He’s been something else today. That comment about Lucas making SW films for kids was something else too. If I was there, I don’t think I could have stopped myself from blurting out, “Then why do you watch these films and why are you even here to weigh in on this?”

[@deanh99]

Lonny221 honestly I have never like Ellis he just constantly sounds like a shill.

[@phillipenriquez2325]

Ellis and Reilly have been extra defensive of the Last Jedi at least Harloff keeps an open mind about it

[@deanh99]

Phillip Enriquez yeah it almost seems like he doesn’t like it but knows he can’t say it.

[@malign8755]

So Mark Ellis just went off on saying Star Wars fans shouldn't speculate with upcoming films but yet he sits on Jedi council speculating about the next Star Wars film. Shall I say PLOT HOLE😮

[@blakelockard1808]

jailen cobb yeah I took issue with his point. I've met him, super nice guy, but that really irked me. Don't blame speculation when you have been on a weekly speculation show for years.

[@basketballj1000]

jailen cobb He didn't say you shouldn't speculate about the movie he's just saying the movies don't ask you to go out and speculate about the movie for 2 years. I speculate a ton too but I think a lot of people speculate so much that when something doesn't go the way they want it gets them a little angry. Not saying that's the only reason people didn't like this film I have several problems with it but I think so much speculation kinda ruins the experience sometimes.

[@malign8755]

Moviefan123 I walked in not knowing shit and I walked out not knowing shit. That Jedi council is A WRAP they not gonna have shit to talk about.

[@kadykwan]

exactly!! so it's our fault to have certain expectations THAT THE LAST MOVIE LED US TO HAVE?

[@Windupchronic]

kadykwan What expectations did TFA actually lead you to have? The two biggest abandoned TFA questions I hear are: 1. Rey's parents. When did TFA ask this question? Rey never asked who they were. She didn't know WHERE they were, not WHO they were. We did that to ourselves because we figured it was setting up another "I am your father" reveal. TFA didn't do that; we did that. 2. Who is Snoke? When did TFA ask that? Did anyone seem to question where he was or how he get there? No. Seemed pretty common knowledge. How did he turn Kylo? Do we need to know? Were you confused about how the Emperor got power or turned Vader before you saw the prequels? Did you wonder what the backstory was on the Emperor when Tarkin casually name-dropped him in ANH? Probably not. We did this to ourselves. The movie never asked these questions. We did. And then got pissed when TJL didn't feel like answering them. We say TFA was just fan service and dismiss it and then get pissy when we don't get serviced by TLJ.

[@ThisAintNickelodeon]

This movie gets worse the more I think about it.

[@Nick-io5cq]

M Stone Absolutely

[@ShellshockDM187]

Me too

[@chasestein6984]

M Stone This is how I felt about Looper

[@SoSickRick]

YUP

[@ThisAintNickelodeon]

WRONG.

[@DoNotWorryPodcast]

Y'all complaining about fans speculating when all your channel does is promote and encourage wild speculation.

[@Zoltan1251]

you missed the point.... you can speculate but you cannot be upset that it didnt go the way you think (pun intended).... you should go like "wow they did this in the movie.... wow that means this" instead of bitching "this is wrong because i think this would never happen"

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+Anthony Sargon Huh?

[@bobsilentjay7611]

I love how Rocha didn't interrupt people while they were talking. I wish everyone else would try that while he's talking.

[@CriPPleR_HD]

Thanos places the last infinity stone into the gauntlet, he glazes over it as he comes to the realization that he finally has unlimited power. He then takes the gauntlet off and throws it over his shoulder implying that the gems he had been searching for for twelve years are useless. He realizes that power was within him the whole time. -Rian Johnson - Avengers: Infinity War.

[@scruffylives9224]

That sounds like an awesome original moment. So it won’t appear in an MCU film.

[@minko595]

Samuel Gonzalez lol underated comment.

[@ETBrooD]

lol, I enjoy TLJ but this comment is genius :D

[@jayrose8869]

Exactly lol

[@yourarchnemesis8453]

Scruffy Lives no this l=sounds like a moment that has no understanding of thanos origin and character. Kind of Like with Luke. But of course you'd need common sense to see it. Quit kissing Disney's ass.

[@greatscott636]

Or People just didn't like it...

[@davidknight2104]

Yep terrible star wars movie :( theres a reason why the audience score is so low. The critics are in the back pockets of the studios.

[@esteva03]

I don't know if we are thinking about the word "technically" in the same way, but I do believe the movie is amazing. I hate it. I don't like it at all. But I do recognize that the effort and craft that was put towards this movie, hasn't been equaled by any other movie before it.

[@zorlak723]

Corvo@AZ your comment is perfect.

[@jarethcruz2627]

Rotten Tomatoes confirmed the audience score is real collider why you lying tho

[@geoneo7238]

Here's a thought, Get 2 critics who liked it, and 2 critics who didn't. Now have them argue their side of it. That's what I want to watch. Not speculation on what the masses are thinking. I can read the comments for that!

[@awesomeness91199]

I’d watch that

[@zerenadli]

In fact, I demand that!!!

[@TheStarDeth]

Good idea

[@geoneo7238]

saquist Exactly! But be nice. Perri is not dumb.

[@animator1982]

geo neo No, but she is a suck up and a liar though.

[@JCA421]

Am I the only one who thought it funny Mark commenting "who told you spend years of your life debating Rey's parents are." while Colliders 2nd most popular show is Jedi Council who do exactly that? And that awkward table shot with Christian looking at him. Lol

[@Dutch3k5]

JCA421 lmao 😂😂😂

[@kaatyblue]

LOL awkwarrrrd

[@danielmaddafewcharacters]

JCA421 He’s not saying it’s bad to do what Jedi Council does, he’s just saying it’s not the fault of the film that fans (including him) cared so much about that speculation. That’s not hypocrisy.

[@Bassmasterfanpage]

He is saying that it is fine to speculate just don’t lose your shit when it doesn’t happen

[@paul3731]

Someone needs to edit that comment with the clips of terrible speculation from Jedi council, daily show style.

[@TheDude322]

I like how the fact girl immediately starts off with speculation. That wasn't a fact that was maybe a Facebook group doing something

[@JFraser360]

WHO TOLD YOU??! You told us Mark... (source: Jedi Council since its inception.)

[@wyrmswtor]

Are they really acting like they didn't theorize the movie for the past 2 years? Wow

[@dchung076]

Thats not what they're saying. They're not judging the movie based on whether their theories did or did not happen. Their point is fans may have been upset because they had preconceived ideas on what they felt should happen and when it didn't play out that way they voiced their anger based on that.

[@114D]

David Chung fans were not upset because Snoke wasn't person X or Rey' parents were nobody They were pissed because they built up their own characters and teased their history only to make it all mean nothing

[@jasonappleby1746]

TFA was pretty clear in setting up these questions. It isn't our fault we then wondered want the answer was. This movie was a hot mess.

[@hyper3d]

"Who told you to spend years of your like debating whos Rey's parents are?" Perhaps its because Rey's first exposure to a force vision practically asks that question.

[@deathbystereo-]

Jason Nada funny how these clowns dont mention that

[@nicgb098]

So? Why can't her parents being nobody be an answer! Maybe that force vision was trying to get her to acknowledge what she knew all along but refused to face which is they are nobody who sold her and went off and died and they are not coming back. This is an answer it's just not one you people will accept because...reasons... The movies NEVER suggested they were somebody.

[@pittmanx6]

Has occurred to anyone that Kylo could be *gasp" lying?

[@StephenIsTrying]

“Who told you to spend years of your life debating whose Rey’s parents are?” You fucking idiots did and you did it yourselves.

[@JCrushFitness]

No it didn’t. It showed Rey being left on Jakku. That was her past and it has shaped her into who she is. That’s all it needed to do. Maz even tells her not to worry about her parents.

[@OurFantasyLife]

Christ..."The lightsaber doesn't matter?" Luke's blue saber was literally the first Jedi artifact he ever touched. Obi-Wan, his mentor, gave him the saber and specifically said "Your father wanted you to have it, when you were old enough." It's the saber that he faced down Vader with. The Force Awakens OBVIOUSLY suggested that the saber is infused with Force energy, it's one of the most important and impactful weapons in the galaxy, one of the most important lighsabers to have ever existed. Before that, it was ANAKIN SKYWALKER'S LIGHTRSABER, one of only two he ever constructed. It's the saber that sliced off Count Dooku's hands. It's the saber he carried as Darth Vader in the March on the Jedi Temple, the saber that slaughtered hundreds of Jedi during the Purge. It's a powerful artifact with history and weight in the mythology of Star Wars. Anyone who claims to be a "hardcore" Star Wars fan that was OK with seeing such a storied and important piece of the Star Wars story turned into a hammy joke for giggles should be completely disappointed. Think about it, the last time Luke held that saber he was facing down the most evil and hated being in the galaxy, only to find that it was HIS OWN FATHER. Hell, even before she touched it Rey got the sense that this wasn't just any lightsaber, and she thought Luke was a freaking MYTH. JJ Abrams obviously got it. Not sure why no one else seems to. This was a terribly executed Star Wars film, and re-watching The Force Awakens afterwards made it all the more disappointing. So much promise wasted. I'm glad a lot of people seem to like it, but I guess Star Wars just isn't for me anymore. This hamfisted practice of getting movies out ASAP and not having a singular creative vision on board from the start is going to slowly erode the franchise. For anyone still invested in the films, may the Force be with you, cos Disney has fallen to the dark side.

[@SilenceRed]

There's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy, Mr Ellis.

[@saunderss25]

People are milking Last Jedi videos harder than Luke milked that space cow fish thing.

[@Ruleof2Review]

Honestly I can’t get enough of conversation about the film. Especially from Collider because I’m enjoying it all. So, yeah. Oh that’s why. It’s an interesting topic.

[@knephsabir3245]

Saunderss25 lmfao! The look on luke face drinking it was epic. I swear Mark hamill is pimping that role to the core. loving it...

[@TiagoAMGomes]

And yet you're still here to drink the milk.

[@michaelbuckelew]

Welcome to the new Batman v Superman except this time I’m kind of on the side of the negatives (though I like both).

[@natereim]

Originally I had hoped to see Luke in another light saber battle but that's too obvious. I was sooo excited when he drank space cow fish milk straight from the tit.

[@cocoknut5004]

Come on Mark, the fans didn't just pull those questions out of their ass. The Films themselves asked and set up those questions only to brush them aside and say they don't matter. It was all set up, no punch line.

[@Marvelfan-nu7ve]

Manu Samoa I don't remember that film asking if Snoke's Darth Plagus or is Rey a Skywalker? I remember the fans asking those questions.

[@alflemon2783]

Marvelfan616 To be fair, that music call back from Episode III was setting some expectations.

[@Marvelfan-nu7ve]

For me, As someone who was losing interest in Star wars all together. I just glad that Snoke and Rey are not related to anyone from previous movies, it felt like a breath of fresh air instead like in The OT were everyone was just a Skywalker. I still like the OT and I would admit Snoke being Darth Plagus would be cool but it was nice to have fresh faces to the mytho. Plus for Rey, I felt that it add more to her character that she been waiting all her life to know her parents and for her to admit that her parents left her for scrap give her every opportunity to join the dark side, Yet chose not to

[@cian239]

Seriously Mark you criticize your own fans for speculating about TLJ when you regularly feature on a weekly show that does the very same thing. No wonder the schmoes can’t even break 500,000 subscribers when Jeremy Jahns and other channels are doubling that amount lol

[@GetToDaChoppa-k5r]

Because they are just a couple of schmucks who talk about films but they don't know dick about good films.

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+Chris101Chris1 Huh?

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

@@GetToDaChoppa-k5r I'm sorry, what???

[@rohankurup3018]

They literally just said you can speculate, but it doesn't make sense to mad about something different happening.

[@dangerrose9955]

I call BS on Mark Ellis. You are part of the Jedi Council and have tha gall to ask who told them to speculate? You sir are a hypocrite.

[@vinnyfarlene9997]

everyones a hypocrite at some point

[@aprilnewell5434]

fuck the hatersss y

[@aprilnewell5434]

Omg I hate predictive text, I did not mean to write a reply..please ignore my comment

[@paranoidhill]

You could just delete it.

[@The1AndOnly86]

Amen!

[@gigalo97]

Rocha my man! Thank you for not being a blind fanboy. I'm so sick of people dismissing the Audience Score on RT. Why THIS film of all films? If the critics had it at a 72% instead of 93% this wouldn't even be a headline. It's an above average film with a lot of problems. It's rated the same as A New Hope by critics! Are you really going to tell me this film deserves as much praise as ANH does?

[@Azreale]

The critics got paid by Disney

[@sebollas45]

Brett Mills you have no idea how the audience score on RT works don't you?

[@gigalo97]

Sebastián Sebastián I fully understand how it works. How is Cinemascore any more valid when it only polls a small amount of people on opening day? That demographic consists of mostly hardcore fans. Friggen Twilight has an A rating. All I'm simply stating is that every single film released is open to having "angry fanboys" vote bomb a movie, but as Rocha pointed to there are legitimate problems here and to not address those problems is turning a blind eye in my opinion.

[@gigalo97]

Meltr I'll openly admit I enjoyed parts of this movie and I don't think it's bad just that it has legitimate problems critics simply glossed over and audiences are not. People should make up their mind by watching it and coming to their own conclusion.

[@gigalo97]

The Name's Revan, Darth Revan I actually quite enjoyed TFA and have it in my top 3 behind Empire and ANH. Also you have no idea how bad I wish they just made KOTOR and Revan a movie instead of a game ;D!

[@jamesbondk]

It's bullshit to blame the fans for being dissapointed. They set these things up in the first movie to be continued and it's thrown in the audiences face with jokes. Fuck that.

[@hollywoodrulz2673]

Mark that's the most bullshit excuse I heard for people not liking this movie you have got to be kidding me..Force awakens set the tone and played into the fans speculating..Most of the shows on collider are based on speculating on what happens next come on..Do better

[@123darkpassenger]

Bias is bias

[@gameboi360]

They traded respecting the gravitas of Luke's return after 30 years for cheap slapstick Marvelesque humour.

[@ricardolujan4791]

i told to a friend... i expected three decades to see Luke again in a Star Warss movie...and see how he evolved... and what do i get?? luke jerking off a strange kinda walrus creature... fuck off rian johnson... MARK HAMILL WARNED US!! and we didnt listen...

[@stevensmileyprod]

Angry Jim What? Dude Episode 7 had way more out of place humor.

[@WedgeOfSpite]

Stop denigrating Marvel this way. The "humor" in this film sucked, full stop. And it wasn't Marvelesque to eff over Luke's character, because Marvel treats its characters better than this dreck. Because let me tell you, as a SW fangirl from back in the day, and an only fairly recent Marvel film fangirl (collected Marvel comics for many years before the films) Marvel is better. I WISH there was a SW version of Kevin Feige to run the SW universe. Kevin clearly loves/has the same commitment to comics that we all have, put in his time in a variety of comic book inspired movies, in a variety of roles. So yeah, if SW could get more, "Marvel" like in that way? they'd be better off.

[@EricKorbly]

Great summary.

[@Wickedweeknd21]

Angry Jim I feel like the only way they can fix that first scene is to make it where Kylo wants the saber cause it’s the one Vader used when turning to dark side and Luke learned what was done with it and now he doesn’t want it and that’s why he threw it and kylo wanted it in 7 and 8 and the end Luke is also accepting that fact about the saber that’s why he doesn’t use his green

[@harshrealities2881]

I love how they lecture us on how it's wrong to tell others how to feel and act while telling us how to feel and act. . .

[@matthewyuan4046]

Ryan Schaffer the hypocrisy is strong with these guys.

[@guitarbizzar5524]

Ryan Schaffer This movie was so good to me. Some serious philosophical gems in this movie! Great themes! This movie didn't feel like the cliche white is good black is bad painting so many things in two colors. Alot of these heros were painted more realistic with tons of colors some good alot bad!

[@harshrealities2881]

We_Are_Venom_ _ good for you. Glad you liked it. A lot of others didn't. What is point in relation to my post?

[@dchung076]

Ryan Schaffer I didn't hear them say anything about how I should feel or act.

[@ShinseiX]

They were talking about how to express your feelings of dislike not about how you should feel about the movie.

[@Hellsing7747]

I don't understand why people that enjoyed the movie can't accept that some people didn't .

[@awesomeness91199]

Hellsing7747 I just don’t like when people who disliked the movie automatically assume that all who like it are either complete shit and paid off by disney, or just utter morons. I’m a diehard starwars fan and I enjoyed the movie, sure there were some pretty bad parts but it didn’t destroy my overall enjoyment and there were insane highs to back it up. That throne room scene may be my favorite fight scene in Star Wars right next to rotj. Just respect other people’s opinions, criticize the movie,not the people who liked it.

[@PBuffdaddy00]

The same could be said the other way. Just saying.

[@earnthis1]

Dude, the haters are trying to shit all over it and you're asking why those who liked it are not being more understanding???? Are you listening to yourself right now? We are fighting about this because the haters are going crazy and giving it 0/10. 0/10??? Do you think that's fair???

[@Hellsing7747]

Joseph Davidson but it goes both ways ! Fanboys are going crazy giving it crazy good scores too. I'm sure if it was the other way around you would not complain about it.

[@borgy017]

You think the Audience score is bs? Check out the comments of this very video. Almost all of them are expressing their disappointment about this film. Star Wars fans are genuinely disappointed that they butchered the potential this film had. I've spoken to 10 different people I know and all of them disliked this film. Not one person I know like the film. Yet critics gave it 93%. Go figure.

[@TheTwistedMassacre]

Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence. Critics didn't give it 93%. Tomato-meter simply states that the percentage you see is the percentage of critics that gave it a positive review. That's it. So for all you now, 93% of critics could have said the movie was 6/10. The fact also remains that once you use sites that don't allow double accounts, and control/vet their reviewers, you don't see anywhere near the 56% on tomato audience score. It's simple data. As a DC fan, this is a reality I have had to accept. Rotten Tomatoes isn't a mindset. It's a sum of positive reviews vs negative ones. That's it. It's a very broad snapshot. Cinema Score is a much more accurate reviewer if you have time to look into it. They control for multiple accounts and vet all users.

[@Noremac_the_Negligible]

I've only personally talked to one person who disliked the last jedi, and I've asked almost everyone I knew about it. It seriously depends on the person

[@jred201]

borgy017 everybody I know loves it except one. All online fan polls are in the 90-10 range for the movie. Just depends on who you hang out with I guess. Haters will show up in comments more.

[@TheTwistedMassacre]

That's always how it. Anger inspires action more than anything. Doesn't matter if it's a political movement or a nerd one.

[@johnmatrix9520]

borgy017, in my opinion and my opinion only, I was satisfied with what Luke did at the end of the movie, I didn't care to know Snokes backstory, I didn't care that Reys parents were nobodies, I didn't care to know how the 1st order came to be and I liked the floating Princess Leia scene. I wanted to be entertained and that's what I got. Who cares about my expectations, it's Disney's story and they handled it pretty well. Did the movie have flaws? Yes, it's not a perfect movie and there were some things that I didn't like but overall I thought this was a good, fun, entertaining movie. I had a great time watching it and that's all I care about. I know a lot of people that loved this movie and a lot of people that didn't like it. Films are subjective. Just because we didn't get what we wanted doesn't mean that the movie is bad.

[@michalnguyen5020]

TLJ is the worst Star Wars film mainly because it destroys the legacy of Luke Skywalker. People will realise it eventually.

[@owenhaskins7193]

Disagree - loved the way Luke was portrayed, he was always a conflicted character - Yoda says as much BUT i do think they could have explained it and gone into greater detail.

[@patrickomalley9716]

You honestly prefer Mannequin Skywalker's Green Screen Adventures?

[@SuperKing604]

Ah Luke is less hopefully cuz hes a lot older and world weary. He did come around to help in the end so i liked what they did with Luke. I loved how reys parents dont matter, whats wrong with luke throwing away the lightsaber. Also glad snoke is gone he was to much like the emperor i wanted to know more about snoke but glad hes not the big bad in episode 9, kylo taking that place is better.

[@michalnguyen5020]

Why to introduce the character of Snake and didnt explain his backstory. I suppose lazy writing. How is it, that in ROTJ they defeat the empire and suddenly in this new trilogy they are in the same situation and they are on the run again? They should be in stroger position. They dont explain anything, its a dumbdown film for children. Star Wars was never that stupid.

[@knucklessammich3875]

So you're upset about Ray possibly being a Mary Sue but you want Luke to be like his Legends counterparts where he was practically a overpowered Jedi God that totally makes sense make up your damn mind

[@kenshikenji]

the only time luke weilded a light sabre in this entire trilogy was in a flashback to kill his nephew...

[@scruffylives9224]

And? How many times did Yoda wield a lightsaber in Empire and Jedi?

[@EverNumb]

The point is Luke went from someone who saves a person from the dark side to a crappy coward who will plan a murder of his nephew because Ben is being tempted by the Dark Side. Lazy story telling and anyone who can't see that has dog feces for brains... And no the shite AF writing did not justify the change in character... it might've taken it's own half hour narrative segment for that... who wants to see such a flawed 3 hour TLJ... 2.5 hours was bad enough.

[@geoneo7238]

Scruffy Lives Seriously?? You're comparing the main character of an entire franchise with a side character that has a few lines in one movie? Shirley, you must be joking.

[@whatevermakeyahappy]

Harloff and Rocha want to tear this movie apart so bad they can taste it

[@marconeves1979]

As they should!!!

[@TheBackOfTheClassroom]

I think so as well

[@Tsimosh]

You guys are acting like "doing something new and bold" is the MAIN CRITICISM FANS HAVE. No, doing something new and bold has nothing to do with it. We hate the lazy writing, the cheap toilet jokes, the only interesting characters being thrown away like used tampons. Just because something is "bold" and "unexpected" DOES NOT make it good. A movie where Kylo Ren spends 45 mins farting into the camera is "bold and unexpected"... Doesnt change the fact its garbage

[@mania4270]

Cheap toilet jokes? Dude every star wars film has cheap toilet jokes. You haven't seen a single film...bot

[@mania4270]

@Alexander Huang because star wars is a film franchise first. Don't ever bring those retarded books or games into my franchise. You don't see comic book fans iudgung the comics based off the movies. No. The movies come first and that's it. If you want some what ifs, if your that obsessive, then go read the books. But star wars is a film franchise and the only thing that's Canon is the films. Just like Terminator or alien. The comics are nothing more than fan art

[@IdiocyShow]

H[lambda]LF you’ve made a very, very dumb comment! There’s no fact that this movie is garbage, it’s all an opinion!

[@chilisauce9750]

I can't believe how much excuses they are making for the problems of The Last Jedi. As an isolated film, I thought it was okay, but it isn't an isolated film. It is a part of a TRILOGY in a much larger universe. Having it answer nothing to built up suspense from earlier films, and contradicting established characters and lore makes it terrible.

[@barrah77]

Chili Sauce mate, totally agree. This film felt more like a standalone. As others have mentioned, in the context of being the middle chapter in a trilogy, this film appears to have failed. Only episode 9 will now dictate how bad it was. Hopefully JJ can salvage it but I don’t see that he’s been left much to work with. By the way, I understand that some people really like the film, I just felt really disappointed as I feel a lot of the set up from TFA was not expanded or improved upon.

[@c.a.t4607]

Collider shilling for Disney... Sad... The movie is a direct insult to fans of the original trilogy.. And a insult to luke Skywalker character by making him a angry old hermit waiting to die...

[@noahkorth7390]

Kenny How dare they make Luke and actual person instead of a god.

[@sebollas45]

what? did the movie said something about your mother or what? You are as important as Rey parents ;)

[@markcignarale2935]

kinda like how Yoda and Obi-Wan were old hermits waiting to die, right?

[@tutivs]

Mark Cignarale, Actually Obi-Wan was a hermit on Luke's planet because his life-long goal after Revenge of the Sith was to take care of Padme and Anakin's Twins and preserve the hope that would be fullfilled in Luke becoming a Jedi and saving his father. If you saw the ending of that movie (ROTS) you would understand... also Yoda and Obi-Wan both went into hidding and hid anakin's children from their father because the emperor and Darth Vader went on a Purge to kill every single Jedi or person with a slight force affinity left on the Galaxy and they had power over the republic and a huge clone army helping them (also they stroke everywhere at the same time, they had their rise planned from a long time), what could two Jedi masters no matter their skill do? At that time there was no Resistance, it hadn't been formed yet. They weren't hidding to go and die, they hid to save the last hope to bring back the light to the galaxy, if that wasn't the case... Obi-Wan and Yoda wouldn't have chosen to train Luke and help him on his quest. So no, the attitude Luke had on TLJ is not the Jedi way, is completely out of character for him, even if 30 years have passed, people don't go 180º just because of life experiences.... he experienced worse during the OT. He saw the people who brought him up as their own child be murdered, he saw his mentor be killed, he learned his father was the most evil person on the galaxy, he lost his hand, he saw his best friend get frozen solid and he never lost hope, he's the person who refused to kill his evil father (a person who had goneee waaaayyyyy down the dark side.... way deeper than Kylo...) because he saw a hint of light inside of him so he tried to bring him back and succeeded. Also Star Wars is not only a story of good vs evil, is a story of friendship and love... something that neither in TFA or TLJ I've seen portrayed properly, Luke, Leia and Han above all where friends, incondicional friends, and I doubt either Luke, Leia or Han would ever give up on helping each other. That's why I never understood why Han and Leia had separated on TFA. The story they gave as an explanation was unsatisfactory but I said fine, I'll go with it let's see wat happens in 8... crap, First Han is Killed and Leia instead of grieving with Chewy his best friend... hugs Rey (because whatever) second when Luke learns about his death in TLJ... he doesn't seem to care at all about his friend... and his not up to helping his beloved Sister, that doesn't make sense not at all. No sense as him wanting to Kill his Nephew the son of his best friend and sister just because he saw hints of darkness... the same darkness I might ad he had to fight withing himself in the OT, and the same darkness he beat to bring his father back... cause that's the thing, the Skywalkers being descended directly from the force are neither light or dark they have a balance of both... that's why they have the ability to change from one side to the other, to ability to chose and change. Tha's also why i found very interesnting the whole Rey/Kylo dinamic... but they screwed that up too... But Luke after ROTJ had Chosen the light and he became a full fledged Jedi. So no, I'm sorry 30 years have passed and life experiences is not an explanation, people change yes that's true... but their core values and personality are always the same. That's Psicology 101 for you!

[@Samuel-qe9lj]

Mark really want his Disney early excess pass lol

[@roly369]

RidingwithSam yo i was thinking the same he brown nosing his way to get his early access.

[@GerryBlue]

Wow, 6K comments in 3 days, we bots are really learning how to write really fast

[@davidford1564]

Gerry Blue It means you have nothing better to do! Some of us are only just watching this video because we have been too busy serving our country.

[@gamingguru2k6]

@@davidford1564 Implying only losers voice their opinion. What's it like to be such a self important asshole?

[@jamesmcdonough4901]

Mark Ellis, you're completely missing the points of the criticism of the movie. The original trilogy was not just for kids, adults enjoyed it too. My dad enjoyed it enough to shared it with me when I was a kid. And that's the problem. Luke Skywalker has been my hero for 40 years and Ryan Johnson destroyed his character in 2.5 hours. The problem is not that the fan theories were wrong, it's the disrespect/disregard that Ryan Johnson showed for the setup in 7 and also the lore/characters in the original trilogy. Cinema score has the same problem as the critic score on Rotten Tomatoes. It's a polling of general movie goers and not Star Wars fans.

[@jrad410]

James McDonough you justified Ellis are gunner when you said Luke had been your hero since for 40 years

[@nicolaredman8295]

Your father was a child when he seen it , ps Luke was the only way he could be for a good movie.

[@rosssapp6990]

Are you serious Mark this is Star Wars and if the mystery behind Rey’s parents and snokes character was defiantly laid out in the force awakens of these mysteries were not important why not just say her parents were nobody in the force awakens don’t bait the fans and leave it for speculation especially with leaving on a cliff hanger.

[@revolutionarydragon1123]

Ross Sapp then blame JJ for that not Johnson

[@AvidAlchemist]

JJ Abrams didn't write The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson did, so it's his fault. Period.

[@revolutionarydragon1123]

AvidAlchemist he was executive producer on this movie which means he has more of a say in this movie then Johnson

[@AvidAlchemist]

It doesn't matter. He didn't write the movie. Johnson did. Kathleen Kennedy, Bob Iger, and other creative executives went along with the terrible script this man wrote. So they're to blame as well.

[@revolutionarydragon1123]

AvidAlchemist as an executive producer if he didn't like the script then he could have thrown it out and we don't even know how much of a role they play besides being top heads in Disney

[@diamondrattler7453]

"What's the deal with canon!" The deal is that it doesn't matter anymore.

[@liteney]

So you're telling us that plot, story and character development don't mean shit not only in a movie, but in a trilogy where you want people to keep coming back? That's a bold marketing strategy you're going with there, let's see out it works out for you. Hint: It's not, cause I'm out. Hopefully all the fangirls for your Star Wars Twilight Saga will see the movies like four times each, cause you done fucked up.

[@AnthonyLopez-cc9nf]

Pretty much

[@anthonyfins7519]

Brent Clouda you are being the exact person they said not to be

[@Jch79]

RT confirmed today that the audience number is accurate... Sorry folks....

[@rtyable]

This is honestly some of the worst defense of this film that I’ve heard

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+rtyable Say what now???

[@BrianBellTV]

So Snoke’s purpose was to show how great Kylo Ren is with the force.. But he couldn’t sense that Luke Skywalker wasn’t on the same planet as him? Seriously?

[@BrianBellTV]

Casimir1100 That has nothing to do with Luke. He just Force projected himself. The fact is Kylo is apparently so good he can pull a fast one on Snoke, but can’t tell if there’s a person in front of him. Luke didn’t mind control him. He just bitched out and didn’t show up.

[@BrianBellTV]

It was only done ( just like every “twist” in this movie) to fool the audience. Not because it made the story better, just for a contrived “shock.”

[@russelsheartinacage]

I love this channel, but seriously, how can you guys talk about fan theories being a problem when this must make up 25-50% of your content!?

[@JPatrickLemarr]

russelsheartinacage They didn’t say theorizing was a problem. Theorizing is a lot of fun. The problem is people who get bent out of shape when their “head canon” and fan theories don’t happen. It isn’t an artist’s job to give us what we want. It’s an artist’s job to make art and hang it in the gallery. If, at that point, we don’t like it, we should just keep strolling and look at other art...not lose our minds in hysterics.

[@j.luisrodriguez2702]

J. Patrick Lemarr and then the artist throw the art away because that doesnt matter annymore. Snoke, death. Phasma, death, Rey parents, nobodies. Knights of Ren, no show. The battle of Crait doesnt happened because everyone is a chicken and ran away. Amilyn Holdo, i think its very dead. Whats the name of that art Rian???

[@joes2735]

+J. Patrick Lemarr The problem is that the movie is a cluster fuck. Plot holes, non-sensicle arcs (Finn/Rose), plot aversion/twist time and time again (Like Leia in the vacuum of space), character actions (Luke threw out his lost light saber??? after all that happened? ) and etc... It's a pretty film, but it's a mess that doesn't respect aspects raised in the previous arc.

[@JPatrickLemarr]

But you aren't owed those things. You THOUGHT Snoke was going to be important. He never was. He was just a vehicle to deliver Kylo to the dark side and build Kylo into a darker villain. We knew nothing about Palpatine until the prequels...and only then because of how it played into Anakin's story. Phasma looks cool. That's it. No one promised she meant anything. Rey's parents, yes, we were promised an answer. The only way that answer could be disappointing is if it wasn't what you hoped. Okay, cool. I respect that. That's your opinion. They never promised her parents were people know to you. (And, btw, JJ could still unpack that Kylo was lying.) The battle of Crait could only be a holding action once the First Order arrived. The resistance was outgunned, outnumbered and without hope. Luke provided that hope and the chance for his legend to matter. I found that inspiring.

[@nicktrumbo2821]

They aren't talking trash. They're acknowledging that it's fun to do but you can't hang all your hopes on them coming true.

[@UcheNwaneri]

Where was this sense of compassion when BvS was released? A different take, with a more complex story of our greatest heroes. A decomposition of what it means to be a Superman. The psychological torture of a PTSD stricken Batman 20 years into a crusade that has cost him everything. Yet all that you talking heads could go on about was Martha. BvS got no pass yet TLJ which in my opinion is a MAJORLY messy film on so many levels. Hypocrisy at work.

[@benficalive4715]

This movie makes no sense , 1 Chewie is a Wookie , who have a Lifedebt with Han , and help Rey to save Kylo? 2 What is the motivation of Rey to save Kylo ? if she saw him to kill Solo. 3 Why Luke , who save Vader one the most evil lord sith ever , and have a good experience bring him to light and now Luke want to kill Kylo just because he saw a glimpse of dark in him? Whattt ?? His nephew and son of his sister and best friend , and in time when galaxie was in peace?? 4 What the Holdo Logic plan? Why can put a BB8 or other Robot in the ship and sacrficie against Snoke ship?? if we saw BB8 driving a AT 5 Why Snoke who can managed Jedis Minds (Kylo and Ren) don t see and feel the Kylo mind , and cant read Hux mind in beggining? 6 Luke plan is dumbest , because he sacrfice himself to nothing , because Kylo could be continue strike the base with is army , and is Rey who can really save the Rebeles lifting the Rocks , so why? This movie makes no sense at all!! period.

[@Hound831]

RIP Admiral Ackbar. This movie did him wrong.

[@kidxvintage]

The man was literally only remembered because he said one line.

[@LastTorgoInParis]

I wish it was him who stayed on the ship for the kamikaze. Laura dern put in a good performance but I wasn't moved by her sacrifice. if Akbar did it I would have streams down my cheeks for real

[@Hound831]

I agree. A boss way for him to go out.

[@ienjoy8008s]

Would have been better to have him crash the cruiser into snokes ship and not include the new admiral

[@jwickjedi]

I can see Ackbar floating away in space yelling....This is CRAP !!!!!!

[@allbies]

Thank you rocha for your comments at 6 minutes. Marks follow up is ridiculous we literally see a ship flying away from rey and she's crying in her flashback scene in TFA. Maz comment who's the girl to han and it cuts away teasing us. JJ set up options for why she was left, who by etc but ep 8 ignored this entirely. She didn't need to have jedi parents but give us something to go on not just they're nobody. Why didn't the parents just put her into adoption on their own world? Why are the parents or someone else flying her to a desert planet where as we know from previous films are where jedi have hidden powerful children away from harm or the dark side? It's a 2 year cock tease and we got it thrown in our face. Similar with snoke too. I'm not holding out hope to have anything answered in 9 after 8 I just hope JJ appreciates how much people want to see development of what he set up in TFA

[@sinistavoicez]

HEAR HEAR

[@diamondrattler7453]

Yeah, Mark was annoying in this video.

[@Yic17Studio]

Not really. Maz also made it clear in TFA that Rey's parents are not coming back and she should look ahead instead of backwards. That's the main message of this entire trilogy. It doesn't matter your gender, race, status, or background - it's about your action moving forward that define you. Having the Skywalker bloodline (Kylo) doesn't mean you're immune to suffering & pain, having the status of being a legend (Luke) doesn't mean you cannot do wrong/fail, no matter where you came from even a stormtrooper (Finn) you could become a hero one day through your action, being a nobody (Rey) doesn't mean you cannot have the Force & become a Jedi. If Rey's parents have been someone important, that would undermine the message of the entire trilogy. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to. That's the only way to become who you're meant to be." This quote sums up the message of this entire trilogy.

[@schmidtcjoseph]

You really think that Rey is a nobody....yeah okay all because Kylo said her parents were nothing and all those words came out of Kylo’s mouth not hers, all that garbage is most likely a big red hearing which is going to shell shock every person in the theater come Episode 9 when the big payoff reveal happens and then all the haters and people who criticize TLJ are going to go back and be like holy shit this now all makes sense, Luke will be back don’t worry he’s going to be a big part of 9 and will most likely have moments with both Rey and Ren in ways, there’s no way he’s not done especially with his huge FU to his nephew “see ya around kid” nope he will be back and this movie is going to allow for that to happen

[@gigalo97]

allbies Not to mention making her "nobody" completely makes her use of the force in TFA much worse in my eyes. She uses a jedi mind trick, and defeats Kylo Ren who had enough "raw strength" to make Luke fearful enough of him? CMON!

[@y2dvd]

Normally, I disagree with Kristian and side with Mark on things, but it's vice versa on this video. Mark is being extremely condescending to the general audience.

[@humanityuprising3576]

y2dvd You realize that the general audience loves this movie right?

[@rmv9194]

citation fucking needed. And no, sales doesn't count, is fucking star wars episode 8, it was going to be giant anyway, just as the phantom menace. The effects on sales are going to be seen in the next movies.

[@GetToDaChoppa-k5r]

because he is a fucking prick.

[@Bvggerffpls]

i was surprised by how measured and reasonable Harloff was was. Ellis dissapointed me

[@te179]

Humanity Uprising lmao no, no they dont.

[@HempKnight2112]

hahahahaha, these people are making the same arguments made by fans of Amy Schumer on why her rating is so low.

[@jelanilattimore4825]

Spoiler in the questions below. Collider please Answer these questions: Why does Kylo really hate his parents so much? I mean really what happened? Why does he admire Vader so much? Where are the knights of Ren? Why is Ben called Kylo Ren? What are the knights of Ren? Why are they knights? Why are they his knights Again where were they this whole film? If Kylo was mad at Luke why did he have to kill the other jedi trainees. And why did some agree to follow him? How did Snoke seduce Kylo to the dark? Did Snoke recruit them all? Who is Snoke? How did he come to power? Where do the First Order come from? Who is Phasma? Why is she important? Why does she wear silver? Who is that lil boy at the end? Why do I need to care about him at the end of SW? I mean who the heck is that lil boy with the broom? Why is R2 still not doing anything at All when he is clearly functionable? Why does Luke act like he doesn't understand Chewie's language after 3 films together? How did Maz get the light saber? When did Jedi power include force face time? Why did Luke perish? Why didn't the commander tell everyone her plan esp Poe who was concerned? Why on earth were they saving their fuel for hyper space and letting all those people die if they already planned to go to that planet? Why not have droids fly the fleet ships as they got destroyed. Esp if you need people and are trying to save life? Why would Luke not try to save his nephew if he did the same for his Dad? Why would his character just want to kill a child, albeit his sisters and best friends son. Seesh killing isnt that the mistake his Dad did to go dark? Why after Snoke is dead is Rey still seeing Kylo in force face time? Why are they connected? And why show a scene that leads us to believe the hole was reveal to the dark side for Rey when it served no purpose when she goes in the cave? That was like 15 minutes of unneccesary footage Was that just director trickery for no reason? Why wouldnt the force ghost train and help Luke teach , esp if they can show up at anytime? Where is Anakin Lukes Dad force ghost? He's the greatest force user who knows more about the seducing of the dark side. Why would he not show up to help his grandson, Ben? Why didnt Obi wan show up too? COLLIDER Look guys Some stuff just isn't explained it makes no sense in terms of the established story and characters, the third film now has a tough job filling the gaps all while concluding this saga that has derailed itself. Therefore the trilogy story-wise is doomed. Johnson was doing a prequel for his supposed trilogy in the midst of this trilogy. He disregraded this story to benefit his own agenda. He didnt care to answer any questions. He was ego directing like Snyder in BvS. I was right about Justice League and I will be right about this in this next film. It will be great visually but structurally unsound and characters will be weak underdeveloped, stagnant at best or just do off the wall shock value stuff. Weak like Kylos story character arc. Why should we care for the redemption of the guy who cold murdered and killed Han Solo? And then did the same to Snoke becoming the new big baddie. So he's a stagnant boring character with no arc...and still whinny. Learn from the prequels with Anakin, a scar does not count as character development. Doing off the wall stuff like screaming "Where's Rey" and running everywhere is not development. Rey falling in a hole is not answering or evolving her. Having her be already a packaged super powered superhero makes her like a mutant if she does not to develop her skills with a teacher. She lifts boulders and uses light sabers with ease. Yet we still have no new answers after two films for her. No conclusions were met. Those scenes like that, Kylo smashing his mask are vain wastes of time. There is no escaping good writing and character development. Rules of story telling and plot always win. TLJ is overloaded and convoluted and shows it's own contempt for itself and the source material, Mark Hamill, the classic characters of the OT and Lucas' legacy. The Worse second SW installment movie ever. Johnson should have watched Rogue One again. ROGUE ONE is a movie that works within its own genre yet gives new angles while answering questions within the SW universe. Like the Jedi crystal mountain scene. The death star was powered by jedi crystals So cool. And Johnson also should have taken character arc notes from ESB from director Ivan Kersnoff. See i cant answer any of those questions above. And neither can anyone else. And now I dont care anymore. Near 60% disliking this film is accurate just look at how many dislike your video. Im out on this SW experiment. Disney is the First Order and the Empire.

[@MUGENTheHuman]

Jelani Lattimore Lets just pray some of these get answered in 9. At this point that’s all we can do 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@wrestlingguy8722]

Jelani Lattimore Exactly

[@fuzz7981]

Wow. Is Ellis high? That rant blaming fans for their disappointment with the movie. Wtf. Rocha and Harloff's rebuttal about TFA setting up those questions in the first place is spot on. And the way the movie gave us these non-answers felt like a middle finger to a lot of people regardless of the filmmakers intent. Mark, its no one else's fault that you got too overhyped at your premiere that you keep telling everybody you went to ad nauseum.

[@sswitchup]

I have unsubbed to a few KZbin channels after this bs. The reviews are clearly paid in some fashion. This movie was garbage and any star wars fan can see that. These guys and gals have sold their opinion to the high bidder I believe. Their points of view can no longer be seen as unbiased in my honest and humble opinion.

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

@@sswitchup Can you prove that?

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+The Fuzz Uh.........

[@LeatherHead42D]

The prequels also got A rated scores and these guys crap on the prequels every chance they get.

[@ReggieDable]

It's been 19 years since Episode I so if people are still bitching about the prequels it's gotta be because they really hate them. Even super duper trolls can't keep that up for that long.

[@CuriousChronicles82275]

Lucas owned the prequels and OT but Disney ownes TFA and TLJ. Disney can pay a lot

[@joseprendes3056]

Who told us? Mark, you are utterly ridiculous. IT WAS YOU, MAN! You and the rest of the Collider crew. That's why I loved watching you guys. But now your shitting on fan speculations, which you guys have done A TON of, is the last straw for me. The film was horrible, riddled with plot holes, and unsatisfying despite dropping plot lines from TFA. I've unsubbed, not that it matters to you, but it certainly cuts the BS out of my life. A bold choice is shorthand for= I guess it's good?

[@robaudey7774]

You are so right now collider even shits on true fans

[@PBOlad]

I just stopped watching video with this Mark guy in them.

[@conorfurlong]

The impression I get from this is that Mark doesn’t want people complaining about the film. Let’s deal with the issue of fan speculation. This isn’t caused by the fans. JJ and Lucasfilm deliberately scripted and marketed TFA to be mysterious and to get fans speculating. There’s a reason Snoke was a mysterious hologram and Rey’s parentage was unknown and Obi-Wan spoke to her when she touched the lightsaber for the first time. Of course fans will speculate. This is frickin STAR WARS. If Lucasfilm then wants to release a film that basically slaps a huge number of fans in the face, then so be it, but they can hardly be surprised at the reaction they are getting.

[@davidjones272]

The point isn't that fans should speculate; that's fine. Its that what people think will, or should happen in a film, should not get in the way of them appreciating one for what it actually is. Many critics of this film have derided it purely on the basis of their own expectations of how Luke should have acted, or Rey's parents should have been. This has led to them ignoring the fact that this is one of the strongest Star Wars films made.

[@serrocXIII]

David Jones Did you read the comment? The issue isn’t fan speculation; the issue is what they speculated about. JJ and Kathleen Kennedy are the ones who hyped up Snoke’s background, the mystery of Rey’s parents, and Luke’s importance to the story for years. So now it’s the fans fault because they didn’t deliver on their own hype?

[@vkdeen7570]

Cinema score is unreliable for 2 reasons. 1. It's such a tiny sample that it's statistically unreliable. 2. When u come out of a movie, the buzz, the energy of being there, perhaps the soda sugar streaming through ur system is likely to give a an off score. U haven't had proper time to digest what it is u saw and it's context. Often when u've had a little time to think about it u settle on a more reflective score

[@thecatsinthekitchen1309]

I agree with most of these comments. If you are a fan of the series this film does not fit! It may be well crafted and executed but you can’t ignore the direction and story seeds of the last film and expect it to work. It sounds like many film critics are going out of their way to praise this one.

[@theforcehunter2847]

We heard none of these excuses for Batman versus Superman or Justice league I guess we Make excuses for only the things we like

[@DannyDHidalgo]

Man. ROCHA is laying down truth on Skywalker and Snoke! 💪🏼😎👍🏼

[@Mikehealey27974]

Danny Hidalgo Rocha is absolutely right on this. Disney and the story group want you to buy the books and comics and then do this. I can understand why some of the fans are angry.

[@gkay8889]

Danny Hidalgo not really..rocha didnt get the point..thats not the truth like AT ALL

[@jefe91]

Yeah except pre release they all gave glowing reviews, these guys are hacks getting kick backs from Disney

[@user-su1xk3mv2b]

Dude I literally just said that in my head haha! He’s so right! I’m pissed about luke and snoke ...

[@user-su1xk3mv2b]

Yes it is Star Wars fault! JJ left us with so many questions in the last movie how was it our fault for wondering!?

[@Misfit_Minded]

Couldn’t disagree with Mark Ellis more. The saber, Rey’s past and snoke were all built with mystery in the force awakens and the contrast is so stark because the change of directors and their visions.

[@Eric-iv7cg]

The vision were to lead her to Luke and no more. Snoke was just snoke.

[@joaquinflores8009]

How can your response to rampage just be what Mark Ellis said. Rampage is taking into account what Ellis said, and is responding to it. You are the reason that euthanasia policies arise in human history from time to time.

[@tonydataiga]

how was snoke's past built with mystery besides him just existing?

[@jacobsanford888]

It’s like Rian Johnson didn’t even watch the Force Awakens

[@IdiocyShow]

It’s like Rian Johnson just read the TFA script, and didn’t watch movie which is what happened. Reading a script and watching the movie is a completely different view of the movie. I wish Lucasfilm would’ve sent him dailies when he wrote the movie! Or had JJ get in contact with him

[@aydoganberker2799]

More like Rian Johnson didn't watch any StarWars movie at all... Or watched all of them and disliked it..

[@Kalleosini]

or any other movie, ever.

[@qt3820]

@@IdiocyShow Funny you say that. Lucasfilm DID send Rian dailies actually. And Rian literally addressed everything JJ set-up in TFA. What movie did you watch? Sorry your theories didn't pan out. JJ wrote Rian into a corner with TFA. This Rey/Luke storyline was set-up by JJ himself lmfao. People really don't know what they're talking about.

[@woreegul9170]

Q T Except JJ didn’t write Rian into a corner because he wrote out an entire outline of what TFA was building to. Instead of following that outline, Rian threw it out to do his own thing, hence why Last Jedi’s direction feels out of place, and why SO much of his film is retconned in Rise of Skywalker to the point it is practically irrelevant. Kylo’s mask was broken yet now is fixed, Rose was a major character yet is sidelined along with DJ, Anakin’s saber was broke yet now is fixed, Snoke died only to be replaced by Palpatine, Rey’s “nobody” lineage is now a lineage with Palpatine, the Y-Wings are brought back replacing Rian’s ridiculous slow bombers. Even Luke’s first line in ROS is “a Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect” after Rey throws it towards fire and he catches it. As for “let the past die”, well thank goodness JJ did follow this lesson... when it came to LJ. You also had Mark Hamill saying “we’re happy to ruin people’s childhoods” RIGHT next to Rian, Boyega coming out saying he disapproved with Rian separating the main characters, JJ openly criticizing Rian’s execution of his “it never mattered” tonality when subverting expectations, Tom Kane criticizing Ackbar’s death and Holdo’s uselessness, the list goes on. And unlike Rian Johnson who openly stated LJ criticisms “aren’t valid”, JJ acknowledges the criticisms towards ROS and takes it like a man and not a manbaby. Thank you JJ and Ivan Ortega for fixing Rian’s mess. Good luck with that trilogy, Rian, assuming it’s still happening. I mean it’s ONLY been over two years since the announcement. What’s even funnier, the GoT writers’ trilogy was announced a WHOLE year after Rian’s and yet theirs was green lit to go first. I wonder why... Hail the Fandom Menace! 😎

[@yung-yangchong2274]

My God. It’s not about the fucking expectations. It’s about the plot and congruency. All i wanted was a good story that makes sense. 1. The hyperdrive ram thing. That is not how hyperdrives work, coz if it did, space dust would destroy any ship that goes FTL (faster than lightspeed). This undermines all the previous movies 1-6. 2. Force ghosts can physically affect the world. At worst, Qui Gon would have turned all poltergeist and summoned lightning on empire bases. At best, in ep 9, yoda can zap whoever hell he wants. (Kylo ren). Speaking of which, why hasn’t yoda zapped anyone else? 3. How the fuck did Finn drag an unconscious Rose back to safety on Crait. He had no transport and were in range of 4 AT-ATs 4. Leia Poppins. This undermines all the past Jedi deaths by vacuum. Also, she opened the airlock and no explosive decompression. Really? My common sense in tingling. 5. Luke’s characterisation doesn’t make sense. 6. The 1st Order ships had enough fuel to do a microjump to catch up to resistance ships at the beginning. So wtf. Don’t forget the arc of the dreadnaught super canons in the absence of gravity. 7. Finn sure regrows his spine or ribs quickly after Kylo sliced open his back like a Tauntaun. 8. Vice Admiral Holdo kept her crew in the dark, leading to a half assed mutiny. It’s called a briefing! She had ro brief her crew eventually. 9. 1 X-wing vs Dreadnought’s surface cannons. Really? At least try to make it believable. Surface cannons don’t have energy shielding?

[@candacedances]

8:25 .... it’s on the fans?! Fans who watch your show? Fans who spend money on tickets! I think our opinions are somewhat valid.

[@orangenblue6981]

Okay, wait a damn minute. So you're going to blame the FANS because they had the audacity to create theories which you perpetuated on you OWN CHANNEL? I know you did this because I've watched every single Jedi Council. The hypocrisy is disgusting!

[@earnthis1]

Maybe he's saying guys like you should chill out. That's what I'm saying anyway.

[@AMoistBum]

OrangeNBlue you're right though! Count all the Jedi council videos where they speculate about the last Jedi.

[@lowercase21]

So true.

[@JPatrickLemarr]

They didn’t say having theories was the problem. They said getting pissy when your pet theories didn’t become canon is the problem. People’s “head-canon” causes problems across multiple fandoms. Say it with me, “Canon is what the copyright holders tell us it is.”

[@JoashYoungberg]

I had so many theories going into the movie that got shut down. I wanted so badly for them to be true. That being said, I still loved the movie because I very appreciate creativity and risk-taking in movies. It’s also extremely well produced and the space graphics are incredible.

[@chrisbedwards]

Mark my words, everyone trying their hardest to defend this movie are all going to be quietly admitting how flawed it is a year from now.

[@Derek_The_Magnificent_Bastard]

Yep, they are the slow ones. It's OK, we can't all be rocket scientists. :-P

[@chevster23]

More like 2 months from then

[@TheTwistedMassacre]

3+ months later, I still loved it. Flaws? Of course! Every movie has them, and not a single Star Wars film has won or been nominated for an oscar for acting, writing, directing, etc for a reason. Every single one has plot holes, ways they dispute canon, inconsistencies, and cheesy lines. There isn't a single generic thing that exists in this film that could be considered a flaw, that didn't exist in the previous films. I have the opposite opinion. Just like Empire Strikes Back was not well-received (with exception to the DNA twist) in it's time, this film will be looked back as the pivotal moment where Star Wars was going to move beyond copy pasta and fan service.

[@fantom5894]

The Star Wars franchise is all about "fan service." It's the Skywalker saga, and there are certain tropes that must be adhered to, or it's no longer Star Wars, just shlock sci fi.

[@manniman82]

I found the movie ok when I first saw it but I just watched it a second time last week and it's actually terrible. Everything is so contrived, it doesn't feel natural, it's agenda driven instead of story driven. I see now how people can dislike it so much and this movie will age terribly because the more you watch it the worst it gets.

[@Jeff17ish]

"Do not let a number tell you how you felt about a movie, let Di$ney do it."

[@Reillycomics]

Mark "I don't want to lose my red carpet SW tickets" Ellis

[@Avarn388]

The mutual nature of hollywood news sites and shows and studios. Positive reviews equals good profits for studios and more access for these companies. Collider, ScreenJunkies; most of these companies are very guilty of doing this. TLJ is a polarizing film, but to use buzzwords like "next ESB" "best SWs film ever" is very much a confirmation about the this system and how damaging it could be. To be fair, SWs is a powerhouse brand and the movie was going to make a lot of money. But let's be honest; a lot of people, fans saw this movie due to wanting to see Luke. And considering how the character, who wasn't in TFA and TLJ we only see his darker side only to have him die at the end, or disappear into the Force(same thing, really); I cannot blame people for being angry. This entire movie was a bait and switch. And really, TFA got away with it as it was the nostalgia of SWs after ten years without a movie. TLJ tries to take a lot of risks and while in my view, they succeeded; the movie failed in that it trampled that setup completely. Either way, Collider and these companies will NEVER admit that Kathleen Kennedy or the Story Group clearly dropped the ball in terms of consistency. Maybe, Harloff, but he's arguably the only one I could see. Why? Because, they want to keep benefitting off LF.

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+Reilly Comics Oh boy.

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

@@generalgrax Oh boy.

[@thebeanz7838]

I love how when it's Star Wars, scores are thrown out the window lol

[@nrevox]

its bots. lol

[@midget_spinner8449]

this new trilogy is garbage

[@Avarn388]

Collider you should be appreciative to Kristiain and Rocha; namely them being more level headed and understanding. As for Perri and Mark you two have NO sense of nuance and are allowing your cognitive bias blind you. This movie is movie is divisive. It is not the fans fault for speculating when LF and JJ Abrams created that environment. It is like telling a child not to drink from a water fountain when that fountain was purposely put there for people to drink. It’s stupid.

[@sinistavoicez]

'I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you've made for this character." Mark Hamill. I guess he's a bot to

[@SuperShanko]

Was he beeping?

[@brucesnow7125]

sinistavoicez put this before his disagree comments - "my first reaction to the script was..." And then put this: "and it was inartfully phrased. What I was, was surprised at how he saw Luke. And it took me a while to get around to his way of thinking, but once I was there it was a thrilling experience." Nah, he's not bot, you are for taking his words out of context.

[@roedisco2235]

I would say nobody knows Luke better than Mark, probably not even George. He's been living this character for over forty years.

[@mikegrady5669]

Dude!!!! Luke went out like a bitch!!! The "Main" Hero of the original trilogy!!! Am I taking crazy pills!!!!

[@jamescastleberry2562]

mike grady IKR.

[@DmitryVerzhutsky]

Buy guys, sorry I just can't... Just can't. I was watching you from phase one. Can't anymore.. Very sad. Problem is not in fact you liked it, problem in way you explaining your position. Listen to what elis is saying here - this is problem. You are a joke Mark. But you are right, listening to you is like listening to 12 year old

[@Zoltan1251]

why?... he makes a great point.... you cannot be upset that your expectations were not in the movie.... you should go see movie and be like "wow i didnt expect it to go this way, that means i was wrong about some stuff" and not "i didnt get what i wanted therefore its dumb movie, it shits on lore" etc.... thats valid criticism of fans who are doing this

[@DmitryVerzhutsky]

ye, maybe this is the problem or maybe its not... :D maybe Im unhappy for different reason. I have no idea where did it come from, why anyone will be upset because he was surprised by movie. Problem of this movie not in surprises (looks like Elis disagree with me here)... again I dont care about it. Problem in countless plot holes, problem in stupides buttle strategies threw hole movie, problem in characters existing only to sell it in toy store (say hello to cp.Phasma) or to push some stupid political shit (say hello to Vice Admiral Holdo) problem in Vice Admiral Holdo - what kind of leader are you, just take step back and think about what she did and how she did it. I cant even... And problem with countless spitting in my face, how much abuse can I tolerate ? You want to change things - great, you need to heart me to it... ok. But make payback to be worth it. Here I see change just to make a change... or just to make a joke. Why ? What for ? Ok, is it enough problems without touching on surprises in this masterpiece. You like it, great. Mouse will feed you with a lot of this for very long time. Im envy you - MOUSE will make exactly what I want every year, wow awesome. But for me... my Star Wars was destroyed in this movie, and I understand this is not my movie, this not movie for me... I see it... But it not making it easier to accept. And as I open review and hear : meh, he just butthert cos his theories didnt work. Its kind of too much.

[@melnibone1]

dude the prob wasnt that some stuff didnt happen the way we expected (witch is a good thing , it surprises you) the prob is we didnt get any like in the snoke case.nothing , zero.a random guy who was just the most powerful dark side force user. and i have to say he was fucking interesting . and what they did with him? cut him in half and i dont want to start about luke etc etc

[@saturn520]

"It's not the movies fault, it's the fans fault for liking it so much. Why can't they just not care and then the movie would be great." Mark, Perry, please feel free to STFU, you can't blame the fans for being disappointed that they decided to disregard a lot of the exciting questions force awakens set up.

[@c2ashman]

And yeah....Cinema Score is the reference *eyes rolling* : DADDY'S HOME 2 => A - TYLER PERRY'S BOO 2! A MADEA HALLOWEEN => A - BATMAN FOREVER => A - IRON MAN 2 => A SAN ANDREAS => A - X-MEN APOCALYPSE => A - X-MEN THE LAST STADN => A - ... ... Yeah....right.

[@bluminhio]

c2ashman & its only usa not worldwide!

[@lylesberg1885]

c2ashman Perri needs a clue. Sheesh

[@Dschn08]

Remember cinemascore is General audience appreciation this isn't juat Star Wars fans. Only time will tell where this film truly belongs.

[@XxXDestroyer]

No one is claiming CinemaScore to be 100% accurate, just more accurate then RottenT Audience score which it is. On top of all the other audience scores supporting the CinemaScores grade, they are almost all consistent with each other aside from RottenT.

[@Samuel-qe9lj]

Cinema score is a joke lol

[@NitaTheDiva510]

Absolutely no Mark ?! RJ also made Luke ask Rey “who are you?” Multiple times. We didn’t make that up? JJ set it up and we were looking for pay off

[@mcgeek5664]

Anita Brown 100% agree. They played it up in that scene and paid off with another campy joke. Same answer could have come with some humor but still make it significant. That would work so much better imo.

[@alexmcbride7563]

Mc Geek I don’t think it was written to be hummer. It was a serious moment where Kylo was trying to convince Rey to join him.

[@Gothicblackchic]

The Force Awakens was a bad remake of " A New Hope"

[@thecoolestguyinthecomments178]

Of course they set it up because that's the whole point. Rey wanted it so badly to be someone of importance, and therefore so did the fans. Her disappointment is the fans' disappointment. Thematically it works, and makes way more sense than if she's just the random granddaughter of Palpatine or whatever other shit theory has been floating around.

[@seanjustinification]

donkeydarko77 it did not pay off. Without a heritage or training the Rey character is obviously a contrived plot to shoehorn a random female character to make some political SJW statement.

[@Elijahsreturn]

I'm suprised at Mark Ellis saying that fans are annoyed the direction the movie took and they shouldn't speculate so much. Firstly, speculation is your career. Secondly, this film was incredibly political and went out of its way to destroy George Lucas' Star Wars Mythology and bring in a version which kills off the old jedi 'religion' and ushers in a completely new religion. Rian J purposely humilated and destroyed Luke's character and he did it for a reason, Yoda destroying the tree, done for a reason, Rey not needing training but being more powerful than Yoda, done on purpose. Kylo Ren and Rey getting together despite Ren killing Han Solo like a few days before. The movie is political Reconstructionism that purposely flips the bird to the old star wars, and ushers in a new postmodern, no light no dark no morals no good no evil pile of garbage. His view that 'everyone can use the force' is polar opposite to the Skywalker trilogy. I only hope JJ doesn't agree and Ren is redeemed. Who knows, there seems no continuity to these Disney films whatsoever.

[@mtregi]

The fan score is accurate. Don’t dismiss it...that’s why Trump is president.

[@serrocXIII]

Bingo

[@Pokane1998]

Alexander Huang is that why there was a record turn out at the 2016 election?

[@supercrazymoviegeek7409]

DEAR COLLIDER HOSTS & PANELISTS: I have a request. If it is at all possible, could you please do a video where you invite panelists who have totally opposite opinions of THE LAST JEDI? I would love to see a live panel film discussion with people who love this film together with people who hate this film. I am curious if it will be a 100% reflection of the comments section. Thanks!

[@Confused932]

I would say about half the youtubers who cover movies disliked this movie, or at least enjoyed it despite having major critisisms they don't even touch on here.

[@markusjohnson9772]

They would not invite someone else on bc they like their mellinial points of view, which is, "I cant explain why people feel this way, it doesn't align with my points of view, because there is no way I can comprehend it so there must be some insidious force behind it"

[@michaelcarroll5358]

Alot of reasons why this movie just wasnt that great 1)Dumb Scenes: Luke fishing and drinking milk, chewbacca and the porgs(kind of just chewbacca as a whole), as well as the conversations between Rose, Finn, and The Codebreaker on the casino planet, were all just poorly written and useless scenes, that added ZERO to the story, besides some dumb humor. They should've never made it into the movie. 2)Too much humor: I understand that it is good to weave in humor into movies, to offer relief between serious scenes, or just a good laugh every so often. But this movie went full Avengers, using humor when there just shouldn't be any, (luke wiping off his jacket after getting shot at). Even giving full scenes just to make a joke. 3)Disrespect to preexisting movies: To say that Luke, after going on a suicide mission to save and reason with Darth Vader in the Return of The Jedi, where he went head to head with the second most evil guy in the galaxy, who killed obi wan and millions of others, just to bring out the tiny piece of good left in him. Would later try and kill his own nephew, who luke trained himself, just because he saw some darkness in him, is dumb af. As well Leia becoming a god of force was just dumb, she is force sensitive, but in no other movie or canon have we seen her posses anything like that, why that was even included was plain stupid. Killing Admiral Ackbar, an original character OFFSCREEN. As well dreadnoughts and star destroyers both, are supposed to have hundreds of guns on the ship, so that Poe is able to highhandedly take out an entire defense system on one is ridiculous. How is rey able to kick the shit out of everybody, with the force and lightsaber, when she has had ZERO training in both, especially when the Praetorian guards, are some of the best there is, and remember, this movie takes place right after TFA, so she has had these powers for not very long. Finn as well, I understand he was trained to be a stormtrooper, but isn't Phasma supposed to be the best of the best. The whole Rose and Finn thing was just dumb, and this is long enough so im not gonna get into it. 4)Dumb writing: Why didn't the admiral just tell Poe or ANYONE, that she planned on escaping to Crait, made no sense. If they could contact Maz and ask for help, why didn't they call and ask for help, from ANYONE else. Rose and Finn again, not gonna go into it. Making Poe seem like a dick, saying that he had NO IDEA who the admiral was, when there is like 300 people tops on that ship, yeah ok. Made Luke, THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE, look like a total ass every chance they got, and with a terrible sendoff. Rey had no character growth really at all. 5) Went against the entire setup that Abraham left, Snoke, one of the most powerful and mysterious characters ever, who was going to be a monumental villain....and he's dead. Somehow after destroying the First Order's main base, and having a huge rebel victory, the First Order shakes it off like it was nothing, and now the rebels have like 300 people left. Both Rey and Kylo were supposed to both go off and retrain so that they can become much more powerful than previous, that doesn't happen. Luke in TFA literally left a map to where he was, so that if he ever were needed, he could be found, but now he is a suicidal guy on an island, who wants nothing to do with anyone, and after being reunited with his lightsaber from years past, the same one his dad used when he was anakin, just chucks it in the ocean. WHAT? I probably missed alot, but there are alot of flaws in this movie, and to say it is just people hating is ignorant.

[@diamondrattler7453]

Yes, Mark, the film did tell us to speculate about Rey and Snoke and everything else. Its called a set up for the next movie. And we got shit smeared on the screen for it.

[@brendancalloway4313]

Lol, "don't speculate you'll be disappointed." follow by "hey guys we got some more theories to watch here"

[@mikeyfjune]

Man I used to love collides star wars content. Can't believe you guys are shilling for Disney so hard and won't even admit it or at the very least just not say that because passionate fans gave this a low score. You call yourselves passionate fans and obviously kristian and rocha want to be tougher on the movie but they can't for whatever reason.

[@paulmcbride9139]

CinemaScore has a grade of “A-“ for each of the prequels. Does that mean that those movies were the victims of trolling by audiences AND critics on Rotten Tomatoes too? I doubt it.

[@nugking2021]

Isn’t it kind of biased to say you should judge the movie on its 2nd+ viewing, what other movie would you do that? Did people watch BvS or suicide squad twice before saying it was shit?

[@lancemac71]

That door swings both ways. Thanks Mr Rocha. People with subjective views about art should not make objective labels toward people who disagree with their interpretation.

[@zer0hero95]

Cinemascore for DADDY'S HOME 2 is A-.........

[@exodiathegod1177]

I think Collider doesn't want their Disney credentials revoked by defending Last Jedi. Yes you can have opinions but when you're privileged to see the movie first we who watch your channel are looking for honest criticisms not some bloated up reviews to get likes. Last Jedi was scattered all over the place with no flow or continuity. Phasma, Benito Torres, Snoke should've just been cameos or not in the movie at all. Johnson's bold moves backfired and now Abrams will take it another direction. Sorry but this was not the Star Wars movie we were expecting

[@114D]

100

[@anthonyvasquez5129]

Yep. Unsubbing like crazy from shill reviewers like Collider. It is SO obvious that critics are scared of angering Disney and so they are willfully failing at their jobs as critics in order to preserve their good standing with media giants. This shows cowardice, poor work ethic/standards, a complete lack of credibility, and lack of core critical thinking skills required to do the job. Only Rocha tried to be honest, but he should have pushed a lot harder on these weak, simple minded fools. Bye Collider.

[@R4id3nz]

better put that tin foil hat down dude ;)

[@PhilipSuson]

YOU GUYS HAVE DONE FAN THEORY VIDEOS ON THE FORCE AWAKENS!!!!

[@ShinseiX]

Philip Suson they did it for fun and entertainment and they aren't bitching about not getting it right

[@juiceweezle]

Yeah, great way to start out a "facts" portion of the discussion by theorizing about bots being to blame for so much negative backlash! So far I'm only finding about one in 10 who thought the movie was "good". Not awesome! Not fantastic! Just good. I walked out telling my self, and others, it was good. Just like a kid who has just taken a bad fall crashing their bike keeps repeating to themselves, "I'm good. I'm good. It's OK," only to realize afterwards it's not OK! Looks like there will be even more films to ignore in the "Star Wars" universe alongside the Prequels.

[@CynicallyObnoxious]

Few years later the cast validated the fans who shit on the trilogy lol my god it has been amazing

[@a7000zo]

Justice League gets bad reviews but high audience score: people are fanboys who like bad movies. Star Wars gets good reviews but low audience score: there's a minority that's spamming multiple accounts to make the movie look bad. Did no one sat down and actually thought for a second.. that critics aren't the voice of truth? And that people have different opinions?

[@djack39]

Hans Hoffmann preach!

[@ETBrooD]

But Justice League doesn't have a high audience score. So you're kinda wrong there.

[@michaelbuckelew]

Very Serious It’s got 79 percent versus TLJ’s 56 percent.

[@a7000zo]

Very Serious have you even seen its score before commenting?

[@Nemesis_T_Type]

Critics these days are shills. God I miss Roger Ebert. He would be mad as hell when Disney ruined Luke.

[@silverjaiden2450]

also, why only bots on this movie????? there's 7 other movies.... none of them got bots... there is no bots. you'd see it in the number of people that voted

[@AMTFan1]

"The point is that it is a movie, and the idea of being able to accept somebody who has a different opinion than you, that needs to start happening more. Because the idea of someone taking away something that someone else loves, the amount of people out there who are basically trying to convince people who enjoyed this movie not love it as much and not to have something they appreciate in their lives, that is upsetting and that is just flat-out wrong, no matter what side of the line you fall on." The irony! Where were those words of wisdom when the prequels and George Lucas were being bashed and heavily attacked during those nearly 20 years? -_-

[@seansimmons4872]

Starting to get into Gamer Gate territory. Questioning the users and not the reviewers is a problem.

[@TheTwistedMassacre]

Well, GG was a joke and a stain on gamer behavior forever. So... it seems like they are doing the right thing.

[@legionkahn]

The problem with Cinemascore is that coming out of the movie I was pretty happy with it because the last 1/3 of the movie was pretty great. The next day though all the plot holes and just dumb choices in the first 2/3 of the movies started to bother me much more when I started thinking about it. This was definitely a very middle of the road Star Wars movie. It was not horrible but it was by no means as good as a lot of critics are making it out to be. Out of all the Collider crew Rocha is the only one I really feel in tune with this on this issue.

[@franklambert4041]

Rocha is the ONLY honest one on this panel. Thank you for being the voice of reason on the panel.

[@nicknick2785]

Agreed Frank. Here's my review: www.verbicidemagazine.com/2017/12/19/8-reasons-the-last-jedi-kinda-sucked-for-hardcore-fans/

[@nicholasnoriega1205]

I'm really starting to like Rocha's input. They need him on here more.

[@IdiocyShow]

No he’s a moron. Him and I very rarely agree on anything!

[@bruccewayne]

This is so disappointing. These guys have no objectivity, except Rocha. The anger with the movies is that there is no continuity from the Force Awakens. One thing that bugs me is the map to Luke Skywalker. Why the emphasis on the map in TFA if he doesn't want to be found in TLJ. Done wiith these guy. Unsubscribe.

[@thealjohnsonshow2188]

+pastordonovan Ok. No one cares.

[@zackreynolds21]

No Mark... The problem wasn't fans making up theories for no reason in their minds about what was going to happen in the new movie. The last movie strategically set up these plot points for them to speculate on. It wasn't a bunch of crap they were pulling out of thin air like you make it sound. The director completely neglected so many plot points from the last movie or quite frankly,just shit all over them and made them nothing and meaningless. The fans have every reason to be extremely disappointed,and quite frankly.angry at this decision.

[@stemb0362]

Amazing that Collider can't have a discussion with someone who hated the movie and can clearly discuss their critiques. Everyone on Collider says at worst it's good. I hated this movie. It's so insulting to the lore and disrespectful to the classic characters by disregarding them for the new paper thin characters. Awful.

[@djack39]

Stemb0 yeah can’t keep making excuses about bots

[@paperfay]

Deandre Jackson trust me they're more tamed compared to Hyper Rpg's spoiler review.

[@roedisco2235]

I agree. There is a very broad consensus, even among people who loved it, that the casino scene sucked. But there are plenty of other solid criticisms that videos like this just ignore or fail to address. I wish they'd put together a list of the criticisms and then have a real, full discussion about the film's strengths and weaknesses. Maybe when everybody cools down, like after it's out on blu-ray.

[@clacky6]

I have never seen a stronger push from critics and the entire film writing circuit to try to discredit people who don't like a movie. It's a little disturbing.

[@andyfreeman3359]

It's bizarre, Hildago this morning retweeting a story that basically trashes anyone who doesn't like the film as some sort of idiot without a brain, even attempting to link them to the MAGA types... because only people with a brain can appreciate Rose falling in love in the space of 12 hours, Canto Shite and Luke milking some titties.

[@andyfreeman3359]

No the awful comedy, pointless arcs, bad writing and bad decisions make it a poor movie IN MY OPINION. I wished I loved it, if you did then I'm genuinely happy for you. Bbut I don't and can't because the director made a lot of mistakes that I think could easily have been avoided and created a movie that appealed to the masses. For every idiot online abusing someone for liking it (I've literally not seen anyone do that, so I 'm taking peoples word on it), there are also people attempting to discredit anyone who doesn't like it. Whether it's saying it's just because their theories were wrong, or it's because they are stupid, or because they don't like anything "new", or because Mark Hamill said he didn't like his arc, they they are just repeating it, or it's just bots. Christ the Hildago article retweet actually attempts to link people to racist MAGE types.

[@MarvellousMorbing]

Andrew Freeman Now do you PEOPLE suspect critics are bias to Disney? You dun need to get paid to get on a studio good graces

[@andyfreeman3359]

I find the almost blanket whitewashing of any critisism bizarre. To start with they flat out refused to even accept there was any real critisism, it's starting to change a little now. These guys are employees lets not forget that, if their boss says you do and say X, then they have to toe the line. They go to premiers, push the books etc for a reason... Disney doesn't invite them out of the goodness of their own heart. I don't think these guys get paid directly to give a false opinion, I think it's certainly possible that they are influenced, and fearful that if they are too scathing, then it might be frowned upon from above, or it might affect the relationship the company has with Disney. Who knows, maybe they all just loved it... that really doesn't tie in with what I'm seeing elsewhere though. To have absolutely nobody who walked out of that film and didn't like it on the show is suspicious. I know lots of people all with totally different views... everyone at Collider almost seems to have exactly the same opinion.

[@namorhere4655]

clacky6 i agree with you. There is some collusion here.

[@jasonsteadphotograph]

Maybe Disney owns the critics opinions. It would explain the great ratings for this movie and the bashing of all DC films (since they own Marvel)

[@TheUnforgiven8694]

Rocha was spot on, with every single thing he said.

[@RedXDC]

Paul Mills Rocha went hard!