Star Wars vs Dune: Comparing Sci-Fi's Two Biggest Epics

[@PeckiePeck]

When I was about 16 and my mom and I were talking about difficult books, she mentioned Dune with an eyeroll, as if no one could be reasonably expected to finish it. That gave it a kind of gravitas to me.

[@lunaeons45]

Big fan of old sci fi and after reading the spider world series, dunes sooo much easier to read. Like dune has words you don't understand and need explained, but spider world just has random 30 pages breaks in the action that just completely kill the pacing and makes it sooo hard to read on (still love it due to loving spiders haha

[@bigjclv]

Lynch tried to capture the spectacle of Dune, but in doing so steamrolled over some of the most important themes. The Sci-Fi channel tried to capture the themes of religious fervor and political machinations, but in doing so lost the beating bloody heart of Dune. Villeneuve has most successfully kept the sense of spectacle, the political and religious undertones, and the bloody desperate struggle of Dune intact more than any other attempt.

[@str.77]

Villeneuve, in obsessively trying to highlight Herbert's supposed message (which Lynch totally ignored) forget to tell the full Dune story first, ruined several characters on the way.

[@Alucard2091]

Only purist would say characters are ruined ​@@str.77

[@DundG]

​@@str.77Movies streamline things, since you can't experience the story in your personal pace, like reading things slowly and carefully or even reread certain passages. The LotR movie also remove or change a lot, Tom Bombadil, and the occupation of the shire by Orcs, many songs etc. etc.

[@str.77]

@@DundG Your response isn't relevant to what I wrote. Your general explanation of the obvious doesn't justify thus specific case.

[@henrikg1388]

I still hold out that the first part of the Children of Dune mini-series, depicting Dune Messiah, was so masterfully put together with the tools at their disposal, that Villeneuve will have a tougher nut to crack than David Lynch.

[@henrikg1388]

No matter how good the new Villeneuve movies are, I still say that the intro from Princess Irulan, performed by Virginia Madsen in the cult classic from 1984, cannot be beaten!

[@Drewgantka_97]

Star Wars is for childhood growing into adolescence. Dune is for adolescence growing into adulthood. But both can be appreciated into old age.

[@sea.imagineering]

I think it is a very good story for teens. Im taking my 13yo daughter to Dune 2 tomorrow. Im counting on some interesting discussions afterwards

[@brucetucker4847]

Both pale next to Lord of the Rings, though. A work one could appreciate for several lifetimes and still not fail to discover new delights within it.

[@maazahmed506]

@@brucetucker4847 Dune absolutely doesn't "pale" into comparison with LOTR. The movies might, but the first two books can literally go neck and neck with LOTR in terms of intricacy, themes, worldbuilding and story.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@maazahmed506 But not language.

[@Notfakeultra]

@@maazahmed506the movies are arguably better

[@MrWhiskers65]

I love Villenueve’s Dune! When it came out I watched it 24 hrs a day for like a week! No joke. It was also the 1st film in which the film gave me exactly what I expected from the trailer.

[@Aspiringtrader2024]

I'm a casual star wars enjoyer myself and in only 2 minutes you've placed in me a desire to check out Dune

[@Mahhhdeee]

Dune is Star Wars for adults. It’s what inspired game of thrones. It’s such a beautiful world and both the miniseries (free on yt) and the Denis films adapt the story so damn well, they truly put love into them. You will not be disappointed

[@Aspiringtrader2024]

​​@Mahhhdeee oh wow thanks man I'll check it all out

[@Vkiller711]

Don’t forget to check out dune 1984, its pretty awesome ngl

[@Notfakeultra]

@@Mahhhdeeeshould say Star Wars is dune for kids, would be more accurate considering George’s inspirations

[@Mahhhdeee]

@@Notfakeultra I agree. Much closer to accurately labeling the two for what they are, dune, and dune for kids aka Star Wars lol

[@Boofus90]

Good comparison, but I disagree with the interpretation of “balance” in the force. It’s a bit unfair to Dune, but the expanded lore establishes the tenets the Sith and jedi operate on (the films show this, but don’t explain). The Sith bend the force to their will, it’s enslaved and used for their goals. The Jedi follow the force, allowing it freedom which is balance and not bending that balance as a Sith would. Grey jedi cannot exist due to this, as the dark side corrupts absolutely and attempting to do so would bend the force. There is a set standard for how balance works, Rey & Kylo only fulfill their dyad after Ben turns to the light. A writer can’t violate this unless they throw away how the force is balanced.

[@pucktheblackswordsman999]

Hell yeah finally someone gets that "balance" is the harmony between the "light side" (the Force as it is) with life and the destruction and/or redemption of the cancer of the universe, the dark side. However, I think his argument was that it isn't explicit enough. Thus allowing the audience to misinterpret "balance". I think it's not a lie to say there is a lot of content online saying that gray jedi are the key. Further making the point that the message wasn't clear enough.

[@hank_430]

22:36 - the syfy miniseries (for the budget they were given) is actually really good and I think it doesn’t get enough kudos for actually attempting such huge world building back in the early 2000s 👏🏻

[@agramuglia]

I love it the same way I love a lot of those lower-budget sci-fi shows from that era. The ambition exceeded its financial limits.

[@daivambrosia6647]

I've been a massive Star Wars fan for as long as I can remember. I love the characters, the world-building, the Force lore, and the political story-telling and implications (especially in Andor). I'm writing fiction right now and Star Wars has probably had the biggest impact on the kinds of stories I want to tell - sprawling epics that combine fantasy and sci-fi and which rely on engaging characters, immersive world-building, and relevant metaphors. I will be a Star Wars fan til the day I die. With all of that said, the general *feel* of Dune blew me away when I first got introduced to it at the time of Part 1's release in 2021. I love the "power corrupts" and "don't trust charismatic leaders" themes that Herbert baked into this story. Villeneuve's two parts form a near-perfect sci-fi magnum opus that highlights these themes in such a visceral way; the mounting dread you feel throughout Part 2 as Paul amasses influence is genuinely on a whole other level to what most of Star Wars has been able to deliver. Where SW touches on the optimistic animistic side of my psyche, Dune does for me what a lot of horror and gothic media does: it exposes you to the cynical, atmospheric, tragedy-stricken side of the human condition in a way that haunts you to the core, in a way that more tonally-optimistic media like SW (even when it gets darker) just can't quite replicate. While both SW and Dune want you to know that authority and hierarchies must always be questioned, only Dune makes you *feel* that on a gut level with Paul Atreides's arc - the unease, the pathos, the premonitions, the brutality. Anakin Skywalker owes much to Paul Atreides. It's hard for me to put into words, but this video does a great job exploring some of the reasons why I've come to be so fascinated by this world. There's a meme I came across a little while ago that I find myself constantly referencing. It says "my brain", with a picture of a two-sided brain below the words - divided into "childlike wonder" and "the void". You need to be able to contemplate and appreciate both in life. Reality is filled with love and solidarity, but it's also filled with hate and oppression. Life is a beauitful thing, but it is often cut brutally short within human societies and across nature; decay makes way for new life to be sure, but any beauty we derive from the world will always be laced with some tragedy. For me, Star Wars is "childlike wonder" and Dune is "the void". Both series blend the two at times - as all compelling stories should - but it's safe to say that they each much more strongly convey one over the other. I think I'm always gonna prefer Star Wars as a story, partly because of its more optimistic view of rebellions and metaphysics and partly because of nostalgia. But *man* .....am I so glad I found Dune and am I so glad that these Villeneuve movies exist. It's no overstatement to say that Paul's arc is gonna stick with me forever and is gonna influence how I write/think about villains from now on. I also really hope that more people entrusted to make Star Wars media in the future take cues from Dune and Andor - epic stories with deep themes and awe-inspiring atmosphere are very much needed in this era of junk food superhero flicks. I know that Star Wars has the potential to rise to the occasion and tell these kinds of stories; Lucas was inspired by Dune when writing the original and prequel trilogies, after all. (Though I argue not nearly to the degree that some Dune fans like to claim. SW is definitely not a "rip-off" of it. It's clear that Anakin's arc was probably inspired by Paul's, that Tatooine is a spiritual successor to Arrakis, and that there are a handful of other small vibe/aesthetic similarities, but as I hope I made clear above the two series use very different tones and trajectories to tell their stories and they're not really *saying* *the* *same* *things* with their characters and worlds. If SW is a rip-off of Dune, then D&D and basically the rest of the fantasy RPG genre are rip-offs of Lord of the Rings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

[@juanignaciogennaro8478]

Just one thing... "It's not that power corrupts, it's that power attracts the corruptible"

[@damiantirado9616]

I feel like we are watching different movies cause when I saw both dune movies I saw absolutely nothing of what you described. All I saw was a weak story with weak characters and terrible world building. The entire story is so awfully presented and there’s zero tension. It’s like you know everything that is about to happen does happen but without the charm. It doesn’t have any of the interesting political drama of game of thrones especially the first one. The second one at least tried. But the first one didn’t do anything like that at all. It feels like Star Wars fans watch dune to make themselves feel more mature cause they’re too insecure about liking Star Wars. That’s why people say “dune is Star Wars for adults” nope it’s not. Lord of the rings is way more complex and better written than dune and I’m pretty sure that’s for kids. Jrr Tolkien would make fun of people who say dune is Star Wars for adults

[@seanohalloran384]

Yoda would have enjoyed reading Dune. Great video!

[@HoustonSoto]

Page turner, Dune was.

[@mmartinu327]

0:06 wtf? Dune is the very definition of science fantasy

[@s-nova9254]

Dude they just can't accept that it just exist in a space back drop

[@Greenignitor]

Dune is so much deeper and thought provoking than Star Wars could ever be

[@benjaminpointdexter7280]

No it’s really not

[@Greenignitor]

@@benjaminpointdexter7280 do you read books or watch movies with your eyes closed?

[@merlin5662]

@@Greenignitor i mean, star wars on the surface level is for the adventure, but that is not to say that star wars isn't thought provoking. star wars subtext has always been thought provoking meaning and as much as you could argue the execution of said, doesn't mean you can't see it.

[@merlin5662]

@@Greenignitorstar wars biggest thing that competes with dunes world building is that star wars is a sprawl of different worlds, cultures, histories and figures with their own spin. dune from memory is big but also linear meaning we focus on a specific group of characters, worlds or cultures while interesting and unique doesn't compare to the different perspetives. take for example we have 6 perspectives of order 66 and their experiences and we know their stories following such tragedy.

[@skyguysproduction5439]

I admire both series, but Star Wars has darth traya soo...

[@ZephLodwick]

Your point about each readthrough revealing something new got to me. I watched some of the '84 _Dune_ with my friend, but I don't think we finished. I heard the book was much better, so I read that in my tweens. I remember reading the scene where Paul faces the gom jabbar and the box and being in awe of his mental might, reading about the incredibly precise ways in which the benne geserit control themselves and think about the world. I was jealous, weirdly. I even subjected myself to great heat in hopes of kindling (heh) a similar degree of mastery over myself. I, too, related to Paul Atreides, the way he felt trapped and paralyzed by the vast and terrible futures he saw unfolding before him. I then watched the film with my dad, who'd never read the book. When the reverend mother's spaceship landed, I squirmed in my seat in dread of what was to come. Watching that scene in the theater was one of the most discomforting viewing experiences I've ever had. After seeing the second film, I decided to reread the book, and my awe and Paul's strength had turned to horror and a childish, vengeful anger I hadn't felt in years. I wanted to choke her from beyond the page. It's amazing how you can grow and change after just a few years and see things in a new light. I'm almost done with the first book and want to read the sequels. I remember not liking _Dune: Messiah_ and didn't finish it, nor did I read any of the later books, since I heard they weren't as good. I'm told that _Children of Dune_ and _God Emperor of Dune_ are followups much for worthy of the _Dune_ name, so I'm looking forward to checking them out.

[@agramuglia]

God Emperor of Dune is WILD

[@mrbeast85]

I've always maintained that The Last Jedi has some pretty good stuff in it, in fact I was on the edge of my seat when Ren kills Snoke and he and Rey team up to fight his bodyguards. I was genuinely excited to see the new direction Star Wars was headed in. Ultimately Rian Johnson blinked and the end of the film just sets us down on a very familiar retread of the original trilogy's story arc. It never did live up to its moto of ' let the past die'. I guess as an IP which seemingly relies upon the Pavlovian responses of fanboys to stuff they remember from earlier films, we were always going to be disappointed by Star Wars; at least by the mainline films. I never knew that Dune had been milked so thoroughly as source material for a vast series of low quality pulp sci-fi novels.

[@talbothemlock1835]

Spice enable humanity safe navigation in hyperspace without conputers, the Holzman drive enable hyperspace travel.

[@TheVeritas1]

Thanks for posting this since a lot of people think spice grants Navigators the power to fold space. I was one of them until I watch a Dune related video on Spacedock (great channel) that clarified what spice really does.

[@pranjaydass6240]

I just hope that a great author someday decides to finish the 7th Dune book with Herbert notes if there are any at all and I know there is a 7th Dune book but I don't think that's any good so I hope that a great author someday take control of the Dune novels and produce a final 7th Dune book which is more in line with Frank vision and notes and feels like yeah this is the end that Frank would have wanted just like Brandon Sanderson did with Wheel of Time he did not distroyed the legacy of Robert Jordan but fullfill it and give fans what they wanted.

[@samuelmarlow2934]

There are large parts of TLJ that I really liked. Trying to create a third way between the binary was exactly what Luke did in RotJ (Obi-Wan and Yoda telling him he must kill Darth Vader and the Emperor/the Emperor telling him he must kill Darth Vader) with Luke navigating a way between them. I would have been so up for Rey/Kylo more nuanced team up. Oh, well. This is not going to go the way you think, I guess...

[@richlisola1]

The Spice does not allow the Spacing Guild to Fold Space. It permits the Navigators to navigate, by opening their minds to prescient foresight-Limited, but enough to chart safe paths between the stars. Space Folding itself is done by the Holtzman Engines.

[@SkyguyFilmsZooruvfilms]

Can’t wait to finish reading the dune trilogies so I can watch this without being spoiled

[@voiceofreason467]

There's a problem with trying to claim that TLJ was divided because it did deconstruction in a way that made it look at its facade... and that being Kotor 2. Kotor 2 did a deconstruction of the Force, the Jedi, what it means to be force sensitive and all of that and was able to show how horrifying and mislead the Star Wars Galaxy is, that not a single person is actively in charge of their own destiny, they have no will of their own. Every being in the Galaxy was at the mercy of a so-called Force, an entity that while giving them life, ultimately controls them to engage in a self-balancing act. This is why force users of light and dark clash so much... its the force trying to balance itself out. This is why massive war's keep cropping up involving those force users at the heart of the conflict. Kotor 2 did it and fans of Star Wars celebrated it. When TLJ did it, it was rejected... why? Because TLJ did an awful job, did not understand the Jedi or the force or the galaxy at all.

[@skyguysproduction5439]

"You can't destroy the force..." 😬 Darth Traya

[@Alucard2091]

Disney: Can we do that?

[@frankducky6130]

Dark side comes Natural to the force, that is to say people with superhuman ability will find it easy to use these powers for evil, therefore light must prevail to keep the evil in check, that is what bringing balance to the force means.

[@pkrupinski]

It's "tenet", not "tenent", like the movie by Christopher Nolan.

[@million_unalived_CEOs]

I really like Dune (well, the first 3 books. I think Herbert got a little too interested in kinda bland political commentary over telling a story after that. and yeah, no need to even get into the "prequels" or whatever), the vast and bizarre universe it creates, along with the subversion of a typical hero narrative are just great. the most recent adaptations aren't perfect (I think they stumbled in some really odd and unnecessary places), but they've pulled it off the best so far. Star Wars... whew. I _want_ to like it. and sometimes I even do. It has its moments. I haven't read any of the books, though it seems to do much better in games than the movies on average. though there are some exceptions, TLJ, Rogue One (mostly), and Andor were all solid. but I often feel like the writers have some aversion to taking the world they're writing in seriously? I'm not asking for it to be made "mature" or "grimdark" or something. I just wish they'd be _a little_ consistent about how things are supposed to work. instead it feels like the fundamental rules of its world change whenever it suits the plot, or will make for a better spectacle. and idk, it just feels a bit cheap and lazy after a while. sure, it's not really sci-fi, much less "hard" sci-fi, but even fantasy stories need to be consistent in how their worlds are constructed. and a world that can change on a whim to suit (even petty aspects of) the plot just doesn't feel "real", it's shallow.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Glad you gave Dune 1984 credit. It’s dated… but wonderful.

[@LightCyrus]

The original Star Wars left the force vague on purpose. It's a soft system that is meant to evoke a sense of mystery. It's a myths and legends story about bravery and triumph. All the over analysis that people do to it is a waste of time.

[@KazeAizen]

And checking back in after the video. That likely explains why "Dune" may be one of the most important science fiction stories written in the western canon is basically not remembered beyond the kind of nerd spheres that fixate on old school sci-fi and how important they are. Dilution of an an arguably super important story into sludge in a way Star Wars could roll with. Because Star Wars is something that on the surface is shallow but has depth if you actually choose to look for it because surprise George Lucas is actually a thoughtful human being who packed that into the narrative. Because Star Wars has always been woke. And now maybe I think I should do that essay on Star Wars and organized religion I've put off since renouncing Catholicism and going agnostic. Another solid video essay. You're getting pretty good at this.

[@sem2412m]

Couldn’t have put it better myself

[@MrRobot2027-wd9iw]

Star Wars is not Woke. Woke people only read Marx and nothing else. Star Wars is built around Manichaeism and other philosophies such as the Jungian archetypes.

[@justinboyett8843]

5:45 The spice is NOT CALLED MELANGE. Melange is a mixture of the spice. It is a French word. Also, mutation does not occur in the books... not from spice exposure that is.

[@theharbinger00]

Few things: people talk about last Jedi because (it was that bad) or at least the general consensus. Apple TV The foundation has its flaws but it's a hidden gem in comparison to a lot of star wars spin off shows. Lastly, I thought it was alluded in the books that Paul lives? Like it never explicitly says he died? Like he was a wonderer in the desert? Or am I getting my books mixed with another franchise.🤔 he's like an old man that knows things later that he shouldn't know but it doesn't say his name and he just walks off to the sunset?

[@captainoftheneverdie21]

This is the third time I realized I only read the first Dune book, ha ha

[@benjaminharmon6541]

Dune changed my life.

[@rej3ktstudios986]

I always find it difficult to engage with comparing Star Wars with other science fiction media series because my experience with SW has always been with multiple mediums. To me SW isn’t just live action films, it’s cartoons, comic books, novels, video games etc. George Lucas is a creative titan but he didn’t craft this universe alone. A lot of my favourite parts of SW he had nothing to do with it. Granted I’ve only read the first novel of Dune and know there are many many more books but if you want Dune’s depth in SW’s world I guarantee you you’ll find some of it, you just have to go beyond the films. Don’t really have anything profound to say other than that and I’m not trying to start fights. Peace.

[@vegasvanga5442]

THAT'S LITERALLY THE ENTIRE POINT OF COMPARISON YOU GOOFBALL. GOSH EFFING DANG YOU

[@lunaeons45]

Dune has an issue of having too many books. And not all of them are written by Herbert, his son made a fuck ton of books that add more non Canon stuff to the story (well semi Canon, depends who you ask to if they count it as Canon

[@nobody4248]

13:36 Kreya would like to know your location.

[@michaelcaboose8685]

2:10 Just want to point out Star Wars kept Ep: 1, 2 & 3 hidden from the world for 20 years and the entire clone wars hidden for 10. There’s also the old republic, the first force sensitives and their effect on their worlds, how space travel and a galactic wide civilization began, first contact with aliens, the human homeworld, etc. etc.

[@captainoftheneverdie21]

True first sentence, next question

[@dlancer2k]

George Lucas took some Dune characters and split them into multiple characters, and also combined some Dune characters into one character. Paul was divided into Luke, Han and Annakin. The Duke was split between Han and Annakin. The Baron was split into Vader and Jabba. Lady Jessica was divided into Obi-Wan and Leia. However, Leia is Lady Jessica and Alia combined. Everywhere you look in Star Wars, at least in the original trilogy, there's a Dune equivalent. But in Dune, there are characters that Star Wars doesn't touch in any of the movies.

[@slide6314]

dune is very cool but it gets hella weird when we get that guy that is half human and sandworm. Both movies also have entirely different aims despite them both being similar in the sense they're of the sci-fi genre. Dune has alot of depth and suited for older audience and star wars is quite the opposite. But Im sure alot of people can appreciate both the franchises.

[@vorlux6354]

After Watching Dune I'm seeing more similarites with Avatar than Star Wars (Blue People not Cartoon)

[@tayray88]

I would also compare the stories Dune and The Neverending Story main characters Paul and Bastian similar on how they both become bad later on.

[@Tokumastu1]

Nice analysis, don't suppose you could do Warhammer 40k somewhere down the line?

[@mattgilbert7347]

Villeneuve successfully rebooted the Monty Python Cinematic Universe ;) "Something alien". Yes i quite agree, and the Villeneuve adaptation felt less alien than the Lynch, as terribly flawed as that '84 film may have been.

[@SkerikIsBae]

I actually really agree with your last jedi take. I was 16 when that movie came out, and reallu into filmmaking and writing, and even as an amateur teenager i felt that the last jedi was super cool in premise just poorly and messily exectuted/communicated - e.g. its themes are very poorly communicated and not as clearly executed as the themes in dune. I actually wrote a whole essay for my english teacher just to show what i would change and why. I think its still in my google docs somewhere. And i still think everything i wrote is 100% based and awesome and epic and disney should hire me i humbly believe id write better than anyone theyve hired

[@snook-official]

""THERE IS NO ESCAPE!!!! Blimey, I nearly shat myself.. sort your levels out!

[@ryanmoore6259]

With Last Jedi I get what Jonson tried to do but he ignored plot issues (I can buy that Luke might be tempted to draw his sword but not that he would actually DO so, and Poe's questions to Holdo WERE legitimate. Also, Holdo wore a dress which is as silly as a general wearing a tuxedo. It was trying to be empowering but it came off more like that scene in Jurassic Park where a woman outruns a dinosaur in heels).

[@Pocketkid2]

Having seen Villenueve's Dune (both parts), I can see why people consider it "unadaptable". It is a great cinematic experience but doesn't give the complete package, at least, to me, whereas I would consider other epics like Star Wars saga and Lord of the Rings film trilogy to be complete packages.

[@agramuglia]

I agree. Even with this adaptation, a lot was left out that adds to the complexity of the original novel.

[@Pocketkid2]

@@agramugliaRight. I'm sure the book is good, but I've actually never read it, and I also believe that I shouldn't have to read the book to appreciate the film adaptation. Thus I enjoyed watching Dune but it didn't click for me like it did for so many other people I know, and so I don't consider it a masterpiece.

[@mattsell2361]

@@Pocketkid2felt the same it’s definitely a good movie and the quality is top noch but it’s definitely lacking compared to Star Wars and lord of the rings comparing it as epics as the marketing is trying to do. The video did good touching on why but also I think denis villneave (im sure I spelled it wrong) I just feel like his slow pacing style works well in like bladerunner or prisoners but not a sci fi epic with so many characters and plot lines. Too much of people just staring and not saying anything

[@DundG]

I must disagree on LotR! While I'm no book purist, there are enough people dissatisfied with some missing things or changes. For example Tom Bombadil is missing, who is proof that there are beings so content with their life, that the Ring holds no power over them. Sarumans Death happens way earlier and the occupation of the Shire by the Orcs is missing, showing that not only the main Hobbits but all Hobbits have the potential to fight and be heroes. Then Gimli got changed to be the comedic relief in the moviesinstead of the proud Dwarf he is in the books. Some would call his charakter butchered. I even met someone who hated Gandalf in the movies, as he was more humanized like giving the small firework show for the kids enjoyment, while in the books he ignored them.

[@user-je3sk8cj6g]

​@@DundG I know a great big deal about LotR, and there's really only 2 things that bother me, and those being Denethor being a quasi villain when in the books he was in fact a great ruler for Gondor, but just felt to despair, and Saruman simply serving Sauron, when in the books he just pretends to serve because he actually wanted the ring to himself and use it to become the Dark Lord himself and depose Sauron. But even with those two, that doesn't ruin the movies experience for me at all, it's still a masterpiece. About Tom Bombadil, I'm actually glad they cut that, it was the most boring part of the Fellowship of the Ring lol

[@yarsivad000.5]

HARk-O-nen, No Conan. It is a Finnish Sir name. This is how Frank Herbert pronounced it in interviews and how the New Dune pronounces the name.

[@Bardic_Knowledge]

I saw a Dune adaptation years ago, but the only things I really remember from it are the "scream at the stone" scene and the line "Wait for my brother, baron."

[@brucetucker4847]

Star Wars isn't science fiction, it's space opera. Nothing wrong with that.

[@wtk6069]

The commonalities are superficial at best. In actual tone, there's no similarities. One is high concept, and the other is an overt homage to 30s serials.

[@brucetucker4847]

WRT to cinema, "high concept" doesn't mean what you think it means. High concept means something you can easily pitch to the widest possible audience in 10 words or fewer. "What if we cloned dinosaurs?", "What if poisonous snakes were set loose on a plane?", "What if we all really lived in a computer simulation?" are high concept premises. None of the Dune movies or miniseries have been anything like high concept.

[@poserguy12]

Great video 😊

[@MarvinNoFun]

I may be a weird one, but I like Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson's Dune books. Surely, they are not as great as Frank Herbert's work, but still they are good in they own right. I enjoyed them.

[@nameprivate2194]

To be fair, it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Ooo, ooo, do _Star Trek_ vs. _Dune,_ ooo!

[@davelouie131]

Or bablylon 5 vs battlestar galactica

[@nameprivate2194]

@@davelouie131 : Why are you telling me? Tell the video's uploader, man. Geordi La Forge would've known that hehehehehe

[@SequentiallyCompact]

Ehhh.... TLJ really doesn't explore the past and the questions raised by examination of the past as well as various novels of the old EU and, dare I say it, KotoR 2. NJO and FotJ both dig into the hypotheses of the Force and how its been applied in ways that TLJ doesn't even remotely match. I can't credit TLJ with anything particularly poignant.

[@SequentiallyCompact]

That said, it is at least better than the other two sequels, but that's an extremely low bar.

[@chasx7062]

The Last Jedi wants to be Dune !!!

[@MourningCoffeeMusic]

Called The Last Jedi an “attempt” is probably being too generous.

[@shadowsonicsilver6]

Now do Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Mass Effect

[@davelouie131]

Battle star galactica

[@TheVeritas1]

Yes!

[@W.H.V.]

A wise man once said "Star Wars' older brother is hung"

[@jacobflores78]

5:42 This geriatric drug? Huh?

[@shelbyherring92]

Oh, I am disappointed... And here I thought we were getting that Metamorphosis video. That said, no really, this is some good stuff Anthony.

[@chasx7062]

LOL !!! Jake Skywalker herrrm Sully is the ultimate White Saviour, which Paul Atriedes does not want to be LOL

[@robertsawyer89]

All of the questions regarding "balance to the force" can all be explain by the fact that its just bad writting. Its a mcguffin to drive the plot, tossed up for the viewer to simply accept so the story can move forward. Which is fine, once you accept that Star Wars had become pure pop entertainment.

[@robertsawyer89]

And please understand, Im not a toxic fanboy throwing shade, i just dont think there is any real meaning behind that other than they needed something to give Anakin higher significance (which i dont know why they needed that in the first place. A force sensitive human who is subjective to the greater human angels and demons wd have been good enough, imo). But its been said Lucas was wicked tired by the time he started RTOJ and decided to wrap it all up there (which is why some of the nonsensical retcon-ing) so i imagine he didnt have it in him to drill down the details in the perquels. Like "screw it, bring balance to the force, giod enough"

[@thetrison]

I only follow Denis Villeneuve's vision.

[@anthonychevonne]

Dune would be better compared to the Old Republic Era of Darth Revan

[@frankschalk7790]

I know it’s fashionable to pronounce them as HARkonnens, but to me they will always be HarKONnens.

[@brucetucker4847]

It's pronounced like Jorma KAUkonen, of course. ;-)

[@frankschalk7790]

@@brucetucker4847 that’s fine and dandy for you 😝

[@RaoulKunz1]

I personally feel that "Dune" only truly works (novel and films) if you have *at least* "(Dune) Messiah" after being exposed to "Dune".... ideally you'd have "Children (of Dune)" to go with this because "Messiah" is the point when we not only hear Paul reflect on hat he dreads but that it comes true, no matter his choices, that he's essentially still caught in the Bene Gesserit plan and plays it to the worst possible outcome, Leto III and Ghanima are the ones to find a solution through a sacrifice that even Paul, with all the billion-dead wars he unleashed, recoiled from. "God Emperor" is...wired but awesome, if only to finally get what 40k renders in as a parody (40k is probably the IP that has the most Dune DNA in popular culture but it is necessary to realize that it's *not intended* to be taken seriously) and "Heretics" is incredibly intriguing only to run into the wall of Frank Herbert's death with "Chapterhouse"😉. This is why, until very recently, Sci-Fi's Dune, with "Messiah" and "Children" rolled into one miniseries, was the best Dune version... and I loved the Baron here, yes he's not Skarsgård's glorious Brando-impression (which amusingly enough is one of the reasons that, to me, "Andor" is the most mature Star Wars so far) but he's also not a disgusting and incompetent screaming idiot like he's in the '84 version... and he often speaks in iambic pentameter which strangely enough makes him a somewhat menacing: he's a bloke who's smart enough to speak fluently in a deeply constructed way casually just for teh lolz... and he's your enemy. Best regards Raoul G. Kunz

[@MilesDashing]

George saying 20 years later that the Rebels represented the Viet Kong is like Joanne saying ten years later that Dumbledore was gay. Neither are in the text, neither makes the text retroactively political.

[@ysgruppe]

Regardless of what Lucas says, Star Wars is about rebels fighting an empire. How is that not political? Rowling just saying he's gay is not the same thing at all.

[@lunaeons45]

I mean neither does make the text retroactively political. But stars wars was already political

[@starwarsprequelsandsequels7582]

I have the first Devilleneuve dune movie

[@yarsivad000.5]

Waite until Frank Herbert's son sells Dune to Disney. 😢

[@jakesauce9473]

There are only 3 Star Wars movies.

[@Jimbo1221]

and one star wars show, Andor ;)

[@whateverwhatever4476]

Don't disrespect Lucas like that. There's 6

[@jakesauce9473]

@whateverwhatever4476 prequels are terrible

[@KazeAizen]

Will likely comment after I finish the video but will comment now. To quote Moviebob's Really that Good on Star Wars. George Lucas made war fun again. Hence all the spectacle. Lucas is will remain one of the most fascinating film makers of his generation because he believed low brow sci fi like Flash Gordon could deliver Dune level messages and meaning. And spectacle tends to endure more in the popular consciousness which is why I'm still shocking WB let Denis make more than one Dune movie when that should've been labeled "You will never see this money again." Anyway will jump in after the video is concluded now that the prologue is done.

[@petermj1098]

Star Wars is about Anakin/Vader. Anakin was a slave to the light side in the prequels. Darth Vader is a slave to the darkside in the original trilogy. Anakin lived as a slave in order to become a true master in balancing the force.

[@thomriley1036]

1v1 Boba Fett vs Duncan Idaho 1,000,000 v 1,000,000 Clone Troopers vs Tleilaxu Face Dancers Doomed Mining Operation Simulator Lando Calrissian vs Duke Leto Least Feasible Fighter Craft X-Wing vs Ornithopter Most Explosive Trench Run Battle of Yavin vs Battle of Arakeen Galactic RISK Championship Grand Admiral Thrawn vs Supreme Bashar Miles Teg Most Convoluted Empire Scheme Sheev Palpatine vs Leto II Wormy Rodeo Jabba the Hutt & Bib Fortuna vs The God Emperor & Moneo Weirdly Erotic Eating Competition Jabba the Hutt vs Baron Vladimir Harkonnen Good Girl/Bad Girl Battle Royale Mara Jade & Murbella vs Asajj Ventress & Alia Atreides (Older & Possessed) Epic Level Dwarf Toss Yoda vs Bijaz Spicy Smugglers' Run Han Solo vs Gurney Halleck Don't Tell Me What To Do Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Gaius Helen Mohiam Blind Man's Bluff Chirrut Îmwe vs "The Preacher" Rustiest Sandcrawler Jawas vs Harkonnens Synchronized War Crimes Stormtroopers vs Sardaukar Biblename Hero's Journey-Off Luke vs Paul Intergalactic Monopoly The Trade Federation vs C.H.O.A.M. Darkest Helmet Darth Vader vs Shaddam IV Man vs Machine Trivial Pursuit C-3P0 vs Thufir Hawat The Bachelor: Psycopath Edition Anakin Skywalker vs Feyd Rautha Moon or Space Station? Death Star vs Guild Heighliner Silliest Made-Up Military Rank Grand Moff vs Supreme Bashar Best Desert Ambush Tusken Raiders vs Fremen Deadliest Golf Hazard All-Powerful Sarlacc vs Shai-Hulud Most-Likely to Harm Bystanders Lightsaber vs Holtzman Shield Least Valuable Valentine's Gift Japor Snippet vs Plastic Crysknife Harshest Friend-Zone Rose Tico vs Jamis Most Self-Aware Roomba BB-88 vs Junction Concierge-bot Biggest Hairballs Cathars vs Futars A Worse Love Story Than Twilight Queen Amidala & Child-Slave Anakin vs Sheeana Brugh & Child-Ghola Miles Planetary Fashion Cotillion Leia Organa vs Irulan Corrino Worst Job Oola vs Chair Dog Fire My Midwife Padmé vs Chani Cutest Murder Baby Baby Grogu vs Little Alia Iron Woman Competition Captain Phasma vs Fish Speaker Nayla Most Questionable Honeymoon Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser vs Chapterhouse: No-Ship The Force is Female Kathleen Kennedy vs Wensicia Corrino Who Shot First? Lucasfilm vs The Herbert Estate

[@gloriathomas3245]

You can't really compare Dune and Star Wars

[@edwardpenny7698]

Quite simple Star Wars is for children Dune is for adults

[@lcbryant78]

Dune is Star Wars for adults.

[@danieltinsleykhvsff9622]

No

[@robertnguyen2025]

Yes..only adults can think ..Children don't think..they just enjoy action

[@buzzwithdrip6347]

War hammer is more epic than both of these

[@chasx7062]

W4k is a ripoff of Dune's Feudal system lol

[@theesm2100]

The Sequels misunderstood the balance of the force.

[@brucetucker4847]

The sequels misunderstood every conceivable rule or practice of good moviemaking.

[@truteal]

Comparing the two is in my view silly, Star Wars is far flashier and louder than Dune (or Star Trek) but I'll always prefer Star Wars over the two because their aliens (both Sophonts and Non-Sophonts) are far more interesting/appealing

[@mattsell2361]

Great video overall but trying to analyze Star Wars and including the sequel trilogy almost ruined it. The sequels feel so unconnected to the first 6 and I don’t need to go into why they’ve been talked about to death about how bad they are

[@agramuglia]

If we're analyzing the whole of a thing, we need to look at everything

[@valentinchappa6702]

​@@agramugliaare you gonna analyze Brian herbert's dune books too? Like Brian herbert's dune books, the sequel trilogy is a different direction that was started by Disney and struggles to mesh well with the original 6 movies.

[@agramuglia]

@@valentinchappa6702 if there is enough interest I can. I really don't enjoy those books

[@mattsell2361]

@padmeamidalatruesenator9756 arguably the biggest cinematic disappointment ever. It’s honestly impressive how many things went wrong and how many bad decisions were made in the sequel trilogy

[@kendrathompson5207]

I saw the 1st Dune film on an air flight. I really did try to see why everyone (correction some people) say that Dune is better than Star Wars and my conclusion is no. I said to the person sitting next to me that this film is meant to be better than Star Wars. He said that he had seen both Dune films. He said they are good, but not better than Star Wars, Star Wars is special. I have said the same for years and if Dune is the closest to beat Star Wars, it just doesn't.

[@CriticalThinker-42]

Star Wars was written as Fantasy Entertainment for Adolescents ("a Space Opera for 14 year olds" -George Lucas), where DUNE was written to Critique Society, Politics, Religion... as Science Fiction for Adults, to make us Think about the Manipulations Controlling Our Lives. I grew out of Star Wars and into DUNE, like I grew out of The Lord of the Rings, and Into A Song of Ice and Fire, or out of Issac Asimov's stories and Into William Gibson's Gritty Realism's. People can't see this until "The Sleeper Has Awakened", IOW Finally Become a True Adult where these Manipulations Become Clear. There Both Good, In Their Own Rights, when viewed Strictly as Entertainment.

[@agramuglia]

I dunno if Lord of the Rings is something you grow out of

[@CriticalThinker-42]

@@agramuglia I still enjoy the LotR movies, but can no longer read the books as they seem too juvenile written since I first read them in the '70's. The same goes for Asimov's Foundation, Robot... books. But Heinlein, Clarke, Gibson... still hold their own. Enjoy the Books while you can, I did!

[@brucetucker4847]

One does not grow out of Lord of the Rings, one only loses the capacity to understand it at a certain level. Revisit it again now that you're in late middle age and you'll be astounded at how much is there that you weren't able to appreciate or even see at 20.

[@CriticalThinker-42]

@@brucetucker4847 Tolkien wrote that Hobbits didn't become Adults until 33(?), at a Party. Herbert wrote that Fremen became Adults in their early Teens, by Calling and Riding a Worm. Hobbits come from a Soft society, like our own. Fremen (Free + Men) come from a Harsh Society, like Nomads in the Desert. Becoming a True Adult (awakening the sleeper) isn't about "losing the capacity to understand" as a child, its about Life's Hardships Giving You The Capacity To Understand As An Adult, and Realizing How Childish You Were. Just because Society Considers you an Adult so they can Exploit you in the Workforce and on the Battlefield, doesn't mean you've Actually Mentally Became An Adult. Frodo. Sam, Merry and Pippin Actually Mentally Became Adults after leaving the Cushy Nest of Hobbiton and Experiencing the Harsh Realities of the Real World. When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. - 1 Corinthians 13:11 (I'm not religious, but this was written in Harsh Times, when what you said could get you Killed by Torture)

[@ryanmoore6259]

I liked Dune but there were a few uncomfortable eugenics ideas in it, and it can be seen as Sexist.

[@harvestcanada]

I enjoy this pseudo Intelkectual horseshit, when you have princess leia centered stage on a potster in a bi-kini, then the narrative must be taken with a pinch of salt 😂😂😂😂😂

[@LukeLovesRose]

Im sorry if this irks anyone here. I know people love to trash the character of Jake Sully in Avatar but he still seems like a better hero than the wet rag, Paul Atreides in Dune.

[@chasx7062]

LOL !!! Jake Skywalker herrrm Sully is the ultimate White Saviour, which Paul Atriedes does not want to be LOL

[@LukeLovesRose]

@@chasx7062 please tell me what the hell is wrong with a white savior? It's historically accurate

[@chasx7062]

@@LukeLovesRoseAsk the Vietnamese or afghan when the Yanks abandoned them LMFAO And the soon to be Ukrainians !!

[@LukeLovesRose]

@@chasx7062 If they cant handle life without us, too bad

[@chasx7062]

@@LukeLovesRose so why are the Yanks looking for human shields, from their proxies like Australia, India, philippines, NATO??? YANKS ARE ISOLATED muhahaha

[@joecooper7843]

I’m glad to hear from another last Jedi defender, it wasn’t a great film but it tried to be something different

[@엔득]

I don't get your protectional views on Star Wars, especially TLJ at all. You say TLJ wanted to reflect on the previous movies? But did they? They showed nothing about Luke's backstory, nothing about Kylo Ren, they didn't show Luke's response when HAN SOLO died, they didn't really show Rey's reason to the force, they botched Yoda, they wasted crap on PC capitalist casino scene, then they even botched themselves(offing Snoke). Disney's current actions for Star wars is AT BEST re-treading over the prequels-original gap(which is like creating spinoff movies with Jessica or chani or that princess), they don't DARE touch the original-sequel gap because of the depressing state of the sequel universe and to be honest, what the hell is left after the sequels? The Lynchpin that rotten Disney blue up with TLJ. Dune is fine I guess, maybe it overstayed its welcome for like a couple of books.

[@agramuglia]

You say Disney doesn't dare touch the original-sequel gap, but then...ignore that The Mandalorian is their most successful show?

[@엔득]

@@agramuglia Huh. I thought Mando was more originals than sequels. good point. (edit: i shouldve said stuff after the sequels, but whatever)

[@modmaker7617]

As a Star Wars fan, I just don't get Dune.

[@robertnguyen2025]

Star wars took a lot of ideas of Dune and made it so a 13 years old.kid can understand it..Dune is much complicated ..but the hero journey are the same ..Paul..is Luke..Emperor is Emperor..Bennese Wicth are like Jedi ..both uses mind control ..The Guild of Dune is like the Trade federation in Star Wars ..

[@modmaker7617]

​@@robertnguyen2025 I tried to watch the new Dune Part One movie and it just doesn't click.

[@carlosaugustodinizgarcia3526]

Both ripped off John Carter.

[@jumpstart55million]

Despite some overlap in similarities between the three when you truly break it down at its core.....John Carter is just Tarzan in space. It's really not that deep. And the world building isn't at all comparable to the other two.

[@purefoldnz3070]

Star Wars is Dune. So you are comparing Dune vs Dune.

[@TheVeritas1]

Star Wars is a descendent of Dune.

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

Disney star wars isn't true star wars , before Disney star wars had the EU with more lore depth stakes philosophy world building creativity inspiration and the galaxy felt much larger the problem is dave filoni and Disney

[@whateverwhatever4476]

Ant talked about that. EU wasn't true SW either cause Lucas didn't make it and it went against his vision Filoni is Lucas successor, regardless of you like it or not

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

@whateverwhatever4476 no filoni when against George Lucas vision far more than the EU writers did at least EU writers respected George Lucas canon continuity and consistency unlike filoni who likes to retcon from George Lucas continuity his work has alot of inconsistencies, you probably had never read any EU books filoni isn't George Lucas successor dude is just a producer he ain't a true writer

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@ No, he didn't. Have you ever read the interviews before? You're stating this off bias and not actual facts. Look up George Lucas involvement in the Expanded universe and they give you the whole facts and the stuff you missed. There's an entire post that puts together all the sources together showing what Lucas was involved with the EU, which was barely if at all. Filoni followed Lucas canon more than the EU writers ever did. Also, yes he is. Cause fucking Lucas himself said it. He's literally joked about it himself on mentoring him and yes I have. I grew up with the EU, I'm just not blinded by nostalgia about it.

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I have actually, I grew up on the EU. I'm just not blinded by nostalgia about it. Like Ant himself said, half the people who praise the EU haven't actually gone back and read the books since they were kids and they have this interpretation in their heads over how it actually was. Lucas and Filoni fixed the Mando lore that Travis's made which her lore also made the Jedi OOC for the sake of propping up the clones but enough people have already talked about that. Literally you can look up George Lucas Involvement in the EU and it was very little. The most he ever as stated by him himself is good yes and nos on what people can and cannot do. Thats it. Lucas himself has called Filoni his successor because he himself mentored Filoni, you can't just ignore Lucas word because it makes you butthurt.

[@rangerelessar3095]

Star Wars clears

[@delirinils1015]

LOL That's my problem with today's movies, before the goal was to entertain the viewer now the goal is to educate the viewer.

[@yani2499]

Dune will never reach the heights of Empire Strikes Back. Plus the weapons. Problem with Dune is that it feels more Arabic than something out of this world. Even the words. Star Wars will always be more flexible. All it takes is good writing and light sabers. Yoda, X-Wings, The Force, strong inspiration from WWII footage, 2001:ASO and Akira Kurosawa. Dune has no memorable weapons or ships. The Spice just makes your eyes blue and confused about what purpose you have in the world. Seriously ? lol ...and that name, Duncan Idaho. Why ? No cool names like Anakin Skywalker or Han Solo. Star Wars was born in Film...unlike Dune. Dune has to bend to appeal to the audience. Star Wars can exist in both areas with a stronger message. Plus those new Dune movies look so plain...like that ship in Arrival. Pretty lazy stuff, bro. That Dragon fly ship in Dune is an attempt to try and compete with the X-Wing. So they both take inspiration from each other.

[@fendicoathelpmehidegun5021]

Both are fantasy genius, Dune just does it worse, u glazing crazy

[@thegamerforge3544]

I like dune but star wars is infinitely better.

[@someinteresting]

Every analysis containing something from the Disney trilogy looses credibility very fast.

[@officermurdoch4120]

Star Wars has the better music.

[@TheVeritas1]

The music of all the Dune films is top notch IMHO. Same is true of the Star Wars trilolgies.