Star Wars VS Marvel VFX. What Is Happening?

Watch the full breakdown here: • Why Is Star Wars VFX S...
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Written by: Erik Voss // Jessica Clemons // MasterTainment // Whitney Van Laningham // Anna Vanston // Tommy Bechtold
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[@TallSilhouette]

It's worth noting that one face is supposed to be relatively human while the other is completely alien. There is nothing harder to realistically model and animate than the human face as we've been programmed over millions of years to be able to scrutinize every aspect of it.

[@rickyr7790]

Yes and the studio failed.

[@austinthompson7466]

@@rickyr7790 they just didn't

[@ProcyonNite]

​@@austinthompson7466 Sorta did

[@austinthompson7466]

@@ProcyonNite turn around so i can hear you talking out of your ass

[@manannaik1341]

So you did some modeling for vfm right?

[@gameinsane4718]

My only argument is that MODOK isn’t supposed to look quite right. Like, even in the comics his face is usually some find of fucked up

[@zyourzgrandzmaz]

Yeah and different origin story character and personality. They fcked modok up bad. Hes supposed to be a super genius and have like Zero morality he just wants information and power. He wasnt some wacky experimental loser named darren. Also he made his own outfit snd im pretty sure had an infinity stone in the original stories. Thats why he was so powerful. Modok in the movie was basically comic relief and silly looking o purpose so hildren could laugh at him.

[@MarkB..]

​@@zyourzgrandzmaz Kinda hoping they actually make a real MODOK in the future like Kang realizes the mistakes he made with his first MODOK and fixes them when making another MODOK.

[@seprex5695]

lol

[@eddyviews1427]

My guess is that some of the audience expected a design that’s either messed up, weird, scary, or all of the above, to be taken seriously. Compare that with Namor with his mutant ankle wings, yeah it is goofy to most but it is lighten up with given context of the character from writing and performance.

[@erikvoss572]

This short is an edited down version of a longer analysis in which I broke down the different ways Marvel and Lucasfilm organize their teams of artists, and that’s the deeper reason why. I recommend you watch that!

[@fnafmemes7178]

Sure will, Erik!

[@pizzanewbie]

You should probably pin this comment

[@WhereNothingOnceWas]

Sure would be nice if you linked the video cause I can't find it

[@miriades]

Do you have a link? I can’t find it.

[@zacksnyder2561]

I mean, they technically don’t come from the same studio

[@ThinkingBaker]

Yeup- this 👆 ILM over there sitting comfy in the StarWars seat… while MCU is outsourcing from hundreds of source and unfortunately, they end product shows.

[@kylemossi]

Not even technically. They have the same parent company, that's it. Lucas film and Marvel studios are entirely different entities. And @Adam Baker is right. ILM pioneered this shit lol. Marvel outsources to whoever can get it done first.

[@lilactheleafyboi]

Marvel owns star wars comics, Disney owns then both.

[@DunnRightProductions]

They both come from the same VFX house (ILM).

[@supershadow9933]

@@lilactheleafyboi true but just because they’re owned by the same company doesn’t mean they share resources. Lucas Films has had more experience with cgi and creating aliens. I can’t say much on marvel since I don’t really care for it. Didn’t realize they both have the same VFX. My bad. It’s hard not to make a big head look dumb af.

[@konel2368]

I think the difference is that Star Wars will be using that character in "Ahsoka" in a more major role so they probably took more time on him as he'll be used again fairly soon. Where as MODOK was a fairly minor character that we likely wont be seeing again. Also there's the fact that MODOK appeared in a very VFX movie where Zeb was in an episode of Mandalorian that was nearly as VFX heavy so the artists weren't spread as thin.

[@Omar-hq7pe]

yeah but marvel is mid

[@ikurama14]

@@Omar-hq7pe yea but Star Wars is mid

[@Lilpiktdude]

No Zeb in Ahsoka 💀

[@Catch_u_reloadn]

It's because one group said take your time and the other one was cracking the whip to get it done

[@FortuneRed55]

I honestly thought Modok was done this way on purpose because it made him look sillier and that’s funny. The intent with his whole character is not to be realistic but just funny.

[@CNTconnoisseur]

It's really hard to do completely CGI human faces. Don't you remember how much they improved Luke Skywalker after his original uncanny valley appearance? I'm sure if the same VFX team worked on MODOK again, he'd look better.

[@nicholas.alan85]

That doesn't defend what we got.

[@CNTconnoisseur]

@@nicholas.alan85 He looked fine. His mask was dope.

[@BobBob-ye3gz]

​@CNTconnoisseur it was uncanny since he didn't look aggressive or wrinkly like the comics but also his armor/mask was dope

[@CNTconnoisseur]

@@BobBob-ye3gz He had to still look human so the characters can still recognize him in the story.

[@birdstory568]

El rostro de modok si es real

[@tezlaactual6582]

Because modoc is literally supposed to be a giant floating head with stubby arms and legs and the other is supposed to be an alien?

[@madnessarcade7447]

Looks fine to me it’s very comic book accurate isn’t that what people wanted Didn’t everyone say they didn’t want marvel to make modok more “realistic”

[@thogeorow]

How is it comic accurate, it's just some guy's face and doesn't look creepy at all

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@thogeorow seeing him in theaters for the first time gave me a jump scare

[@jdizzledaplaya2986]

​@@thogeorowHe just has a big head. That's accurate

[@vibes.mp3598]

@@thogeorow yeah not accurate to how his face in the comics looks at all. The metal helmet he had looked closer to the original design

[@BoogSReviews]

@@vibes.mp3598 he looks almost exactly like modok superior. MODOK superior was bald, has pupils, and was less deformed than previous versions. This version was more accurate to that. That version was also an avenger which got an Easter egg when he asked Scott if he was an avenger

[@HeroHansel321]

i just believe disney was pressuring its marvel staff to pump whatever looked decent in their eyes, maybe the fxs artists for marvel are just tired and maybe the star wars fx artists had more time or more passionate?

[@agama5538]

Rather, they handed million dollar franchises to noobs instead of starting them off on the side to improve first. The veterans had less involvement, thus the work was sub parr.

[@ericianwalters]

⁠@@agama5538 This is totally false.

[@StoryShiftCh]

I really thought that was Jaro Tapal 💀💀

[@Nah-wg6dw]

Understandable! They’re both of the smae race and have never been portrayed in such realistic modeling!

[@joshhan2821]

Why is everyone just hating MODOK’s looks and effects. He’s suppose to look like that. Also, how the hell is it supposed to get more realistic than that

[@noahkrause2835]

Another thing is marvel has been pumping out movies and TV Shows like crazy, while with Star wars they probably put this scene in there to give the VFX artists something to do.

[@jakob8940]

Oh trust me. Star wars also suffers from this

[@noahkrause2835]

@@jakob8940 except star wars has had good cgi in all of the movies and TV shows

[@jakob8940]

@@noahkrause2835 the CGI is solid but now they use a lot of practical effects and those look goofy af

[@noahkrause2835]

@@jakob8940 they didnt use a ton of practical effects for the TV shows because those are mostly CGI. Its crazy skywalker ranch is using unteal engine 4 for the tv shows.

[@jakob8940]

@@noahkrause2835 There is grogu, the costumes and many of the smaller aliens are all not CGI and they look goofy af

[@omgitsbort5805]

To be fair zeb was only in like 1 minute while modok was in the whole film

[@kwestionablplus]

its almost like he said that on the short

[@Juxta...]

More reasons to do it well, you will have to look to his face a whole film

[@pabloquijadasalazar7507]

Modok was supposed to be some comedy relief, so I’m glad he looks goofy af

[@chrizmerk756]

Modok dying was the saddest Avenger's death.

[@thc4825]

Probably cuz one was done for the purpose of comedic purposes

[@jakob8940]

Which one?

[@higglybiggly1174]

MODOK looked fine, comic accurate. He's supposed to look like a bobble head. Literally just finding things to whine about now.

[@thedonkey2092]

Exactly!

[@PersassyJackson130]

I thought that was Joro topal from the Cal Kestis games

[@tryagain3975]

Racism? JK

[@KupiecKorzenny_EmhyrVarEmreis]

​@@stonerose1995specie not race

[@yamomspotatosalad818]

@@KupiecKorzenny_EmhyrVarEmreiswere you dropped?

[@KupiecKorzenny_EmhyrVarEmreis]

@@yamomspotatosalad818 no. Why?

[@TheAbscond]

Modok is literally a giant floating head, this concept alone is a GFX nightmare 😂 idk what people expected 😂

[@battymax]

they just didn't have the render time due to time constraints, due to the studio changes

[@Jonrocks7]

Ngl, i thought zeb was Jaro Tapal from jedi fallen order 😂😂😂

[@memezyyyyyyyyyy]

Its almost like its harder to make a cgi human less uncanny than an alien 😳😳

[@birdstory568]

Luke skywalker

[@Notlordstark]

The real difference is in what the CGI is based on. Motion tracking captures realistic muscle movements and joint flexibility. Just making the entire character out of CGI will always create an uncanny valley effect.

[@maninanikittycat4238]

I really wanted to see more of the Lasat in Star Wars because I absolutely love the design. Seems Zeb in live action was a dream come true!

[@bhambabean1192]

I think it comes down to the passion the artist have towards what they are working on, or even the specific artists working on that part of the project.

[@chancebutcher3356]

In their defense tho. The bigger something is the harder it is to detail it for the big screen. Especially when the object or person has a load of screen time

[@rbreachgamer54]

"what are you doing halting my endless fun coaster and infiltrating my lair" - modok

[@cincinnatipedalsteel4347]

MODOK and n QuantumMainia was the most hilarious thing I’ve ever seen.

[@thatsruffdog]

You can see light coming through his ears just like Yoda’s in Ep. III.

[@seanfine3463]

My issue with modok was the uncanny valley proportions of the face

[@scootinand]

I have yet to watch Quantumania, and whenever people share footage of MODOK it always looks like someone filming the screen with an iphone 4. I have yet to see someone complain about the CG for MODOK while providing the actual hi-res movie footage, which should be available with it streaming now

[@batou1468]

just because the vfx credits says ilm, they also mention a million other smaller studios because a lot of vfx gets contracted out and work in parallel on scenes.

[@zeldadonkey1]

Modok is a giant floating head. There is no way to make him look good. The best way to do Modok, is to not do Modok!

[@supa_sets8636]

I mean Modok would never be able to look good unless you completely redesigned him

[@adarnia]

well noticed you compared a supposedly human face to a fantastical creature face? uncanny valley really is noticeable with Modok of course

[@guskay]

I didn’t even think of the effects on zeb i was just exited but looking back at it wow!

[@LoudAngryJerk]

worth noting that it isn't the same studio. the Mandalorian used the in-house tech team, and had a sizeable portion of their budget dedicated to things like this. the MCU of late has been using external contractors, and usually have time and budget constraints which are significantly more pressing.

[@therealangelosettler]

I feel like the modok vfx was done purposeful/intentional

[@johnprudent3216]

MODOK almost a look like some kind of distortion effect was used on plates that were shot of the actor’s face, like it was stretched over some oval geometry or something.

[@burnum]

They're done by two different teams. That's why.

[@SpanishArmadaProd]

you dont know that

[@burnum]

@@SpanishArmadaProd I looked it up, that's how I know.

[@farwoodfarm9296]

Zeb made all the costumed Alien's look like they were from Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

[@thomasflores7817]

I though that was Jaro Tapal from Jedi Fallen order

[@zac7258]

Damn I didn’t know they did live action zeb. Looks great😂

[@moroc333]

From all the possible scientific achievements of the last 10 years "animating realistic purple alien men" was not in my bingo card. But I am not complaining about it.

[@maverickpwnage8534]

i thought that was Jaro Tapal for a second from Fallen Order lol.

[@Feintgames]

It all comes down to character design. And how much money you want to spend.

[@Jeterfan906]

It’s because they actually let the teams work on Star Wars without last minute updates and additions. That coupled with the fact that Star Wars still uses a lot of practical effects and they actually get the time they need to make their SFX look really good

[@PrimeDirective91]

I understand that one character had a longer screen time and would have required a lot more work to be comparable… BUT one was built for paying audiences, and the other was built for streaming (paid, but at a much lower rate). The expectation should be higher for the studio that expects $8-12 per ticket at the box office.

[@aussiecossie5816]

Covid folks, a lot of these projects were in post production during covid when people were forced to work from home from their personal computers. Have we all forgotten about that waking nightmare?

[@bilveytoman8125]

The old fashioned Covid excuse. No. We're done with these companies using a virus that is now just at flu levels as an excuse to hoard money and be lazy.

[@aussiecossie5816]

@@bilveytoman8125 you misunderstand. Post production takes YEARS. A feature film like this might be 2 years of pre-production, a year of production and 2-4 years of post production. That time frame puts the VFX work smack-bang in the middle of the worst of the pandemic. Things should improve again from here.

[@mylesjohnson7351]

Star Wars the clone wars and rebels are some of the best starwars tv shows out there Hondo is one of my favorite characters from both shows

[@shattaredentertainment4782]

I think it has more to do with quantumania being pushed to come out sooner then originally dated that they had to cut back on rendering the character. Also I think with star wars now just doing series they can release it when ever they want and not have to rush it. Also disney probably had star wars as there number 1 priority.

[@wam3863]

The real surprise would be one half way decent episode of the Mandalorian

[@ltlegolas8623]

To be fair to make a floating human head with a metal chair limbs attached to it seems like a hard thing to make to look realistic.

[@Camicazi]

True. Was gonna look a bit stupid anyway so they’re probably better off just leaning into it.

[@amazingxfighter17]

Star Wars always sets everything for better. A step ahead of everyone about vfx and else

[@RememberPOGS]

They had two years to work on zeb, 1 year to work on Modok its makes sense, espcially if the studio is stretched thin, and they're not the same studios

[@cles0v]

That's not just texturing it's way deeper than that

[@mr.wookiesack]

It's like they made Modoc a giant head..

[@mandarinduck]

There's no way you're going to make MODOK NOT look ridiculous

[@ckannan90]

Lol until this video I genuinely thought that picture of MODOK was a meme, not from the actual movie 😂

[@vic._.damiann9458]

They just good with the color purple

[@henreymichelson]

Hear me out in order to make a batter Modok make him more disfigured like what they did in the bad avengers game

[@JohnPlataIII]

Modoc looks like Modoc should, a giant head😂

[@bejczyreal]

Makes you think if they put that much effort into the model then they'll use it later for more ZEB

[@fgdj2000]

Ultimately it's time and money. Star Wars filmmakers tend to take their time with VFX and put the necessary care into them (by giving VFX Studio the time). Marvel on the other hand runs on a really tight schedule and puts movies an shows out left and right. Compare 3 movies, 3 tv shows and 2 specials in 2022 to Star Wars 2 tv shows (not counting the animated shows because they are not helmed by ILM afaik... also, BOBF is technically still 2021 from a Production stand point).

[@bobpatterson8264]

I really hope Vega makes it into the game 😅🙏

[@tanyarousseau9871]

I saw the Little Mermaid last night. I couldn’t believe they could make some numbers like Under the Sea look like that and not make the Quantum realm look better.

[@MaxiCouch]

Ok for a good solid second I thought that zeb was jaro tepal

[@saturatedodin476]

My brain doesn’t work well enough to do any of this stuff oh my i can’t even imagine how well their brains work

[@sammolintas6965]

They should have make modok a grumpy face like in the comics

[@Last-Scar-5675]

I still don’t see why everyone is bitching over Darren’s CGI it looks just fine🤷‍♂️ all the CGI in Quantumania is a lot better than most of Phase 4’s

[@MaddMaster69]

Agree with the first part, disagree with the last part.

[@theusernameicoodfind]

Never thought about that with Thanos bud I guess that’s the point. If you aren’t thinking about how they look the artists were successful.

[@Alexanderthegreat159]

I mean it's a big ass floating head. How real did they expect?

[@freddiemedley5580]

How does Dave Filonoi not realize that we want the rebels cast to be butchered in exquisite detail, not given random cameos

[@aaronj.guillen1421]

I straight thought that was Jaro topal

[@davidkglevi]

This is because two things, closely related to each other. They're called time and money.

[@Nox_The_Box]

One word TIME

[@StygianNightmare]

Prep time applies equally to both batman and vfx artists. Given enough time to complete their task they can accomplish anything. Its when you brush them that they make mistakes

[@ToxicPickle246]

ngl when i first saw zeb i thought it was jaro tapal for star wars the last jedi

[@yasiryaxier4377]

Time due date problem

[@jacobmelena9116]

When I’m doubt, it’s the deadline

[@Killahnator69]

Hol' up, thats Zeb? neat, explains a lot.

[@donivanpotter2762]

Yeah secondary motion.

[@batsdaylights]

CGI reminded me of Sharkboy and Lavagirl 😅

[@yournutt]

theyre distributed by the same studio, but they arent produced by the same studio, and the VFX arent done by the same studio. Zeb is ILM, Modok is Digital Domain

[@adrianomoraes5992]

The answer is pretty simple. The SW had way more time and it was one minute. The MCU was not allowed the same proportional amount of time because they were also working on Wakanda Forever at the same time so it was not feasible to get the same amount of details over a far more extensive run time, plus revisions, which is what the vfx community had been calling out the MCU for.

[@adrianomoraes5992]

Many of the criticisms from the vfx community boils down to absurd short time for complex work, endless revisions, directors inexperienced with vfx doing radical changes at a whim instead of pre planning making animators have to restart from scratch. I hope Erik'a analysis is not ignoring the widely different work conditions and demands between the two.

[@leprovokateur7745]

Well Star Wars has a bigger budget on vfx, more schedule and specially the studio is ILM the best of the best so it makes total sense

[@ScaryBandMonster]

I feel like with Modoc it was a choice to intentionally make him look goofy, for comedic purposes.

[@Yourboytomato]

I mean modok has always had a goofy appearance

[@SterlingFM]

Art design has nothing to do with technical fidelity, the work on Modok is just as good, its just the overall design that isnt, and it also isnt the fault of the VFX Studio, but rather the creative decisions from the higher ups at marvel for choosing the design.

[@awesomecatgaming7060]

Cool!

[@yaboiyoshio8622]

It should be noted that its pretty unlikely the same VFX stufio worked on both of these characters. The real answer to why Modoks effects look pretty bad in comparison with Zeb would have more to do with differences between the actual logistics of both productions and Disney's management of the multiple different VFX companies that contribute to these productions

[@jdizzledaplaya2986]

Understandably so but it is no big rumor now that Marvel rushes deadlines & production, under pays staff & employees. I mean I can honestly see it sometimes but I didn't see it here. Oy imagine how it would be during & after the writer's strike

[@skaboodlydoodle]

Because they don't come from the same studio. Disney contracts dozens of different VFX studios that usually have nothing to do with each other other than a single project and Marvel in particular has garnered a reputation as one of the single worst clients in the entire industry to work for. So much so that some studios are even flat out refusing to do business with them because of their insane last minute requests and utter inability to comprehend the magnitude of work they ask for within virtually unattainable timeframes and budgets. THAT'S why Marvel VFX look so bad.

[@pillarsofsnow7940]

And then there’s ILM who have every single starwars VFX and art piece possible stored somewhere for them to use as reference at a later date. So instead of having to modifying an actual person’s face from scratch, they start with the pre existing assets for Zebb. Seriously, the recent Star Wars Gallery documentaries make it clear that ILM keeps almost everything because it might be useful later.

[@stormtraitor6545]

‘Star Wars’ has used more practicality and less CGI since the sequels and ‘Rogue One’ etc. for some reason, Marvel has doubled down on CGI since Phase 3.

[@Disaster_Circus]

People are confusing the strange and jarring design of MODOK and the uncanny nature of brining it to a live action movie with bad CGI. The effects were good. It's just that MODOK's design doesn't translate well to realism.

[@hamburgerdog25]

MCU and Star Wars are created in different studios. I can't say for certain if Disney is actually helming all the Star Wars stuff or if they just simply own Lucasfilm while they make it on their own. But Disney does not helm Marvel, they just own and distribute Marvel. Marvel movies are still made at Marvel studios. So these properties should be held to different standards as they are finished by different teams. It would be like comparing Paramount works to Nickelodeon works. Paramount owns Nickelodeon but Nickelodeon still works by their own studios.

[@nk-dw2hm]

That was an artery in his temple not a muscle twitching

[@dashfatbastard]

I think that MODOC was done more for laughs...making him more realistic would be sickening.