Star Wars Xwing & Star Wars Armada are.. Dead!!

[@Lokd0wn]

It's crazy to think how precipitous a fall X-Wing had. For a solid 1.5 - 2 years from 2015-17 it was outselling 40K in some regions.

[@E_Platypus_Unum]

That shift to V2 was catastrophic in my area

[@toferkrz946]

@@E_Platypus_Unum v2 was catastrophic everywhere. It was a huge culture shock for the casual players, who never before were faced by a 'new edition' in a tabletop game, with the transition very poorly communicated by FFG. It was also a couple years too early for an app-driven game. FFG were the first big company with a popular big game to have their points and army building in an app. There was A LOT of pushback to that at the time. Ironic given how nowadays, cloud-updated points and an app are becoming the industry standard... In some ways, FFG was ahead of the curve with X-Wing 2.

[@toferkrz946]

With all the debt Asmodee has been saddled with, it's not surprising all Asmodee-owned companies are gonna aggressively prune their catalogues to hone their margins to be razor sharp. And it still might not be enough. The next couple years are gonna be... interesting for the tabletop market.

[@dwarrenmsp]

Totally this. Cut everything that isn't generating money. The costs to produce Xwing and Armada minis must be an order of magnitude more than injection molded plastic.

[@daiviet]

your greenscreen is interactive now? thats wild

[@Strange8ractor]

This is why I refuse to get into Shatterpoint. It helps that I hate the aesthetic.

[@03dashk64]

It was the scale increase that did it for me

[@bernhardeisl7382]

Hey yall! Just to use that show as a vehicle to get the information out there: For a while already there has been an Star Wars Armada legacy project. This a community led development with strong playtesting. They already released 2 waves and they do most of their stuff through discord :) Edit: sorry for the typos i fixed it now

[@TomK_421]

OG X-Wing was my favourite game to play. The movement was so satisfying when you pulled it off

[@andymeechan3924]

The card stock contributed massively to the cost of the box. Regarding the pre-paints: weren't they painted 'by computer'?

[@Octarinewolf]

IIRC The loadouts of the X-Wing upgrade boxes included multiple copies of high points value things people mostly only had one of and not very many copies of things people used in multiple.

[@Shadygit]

Can't say it enough, I love your guys candor on these kinds of videos. As a shopper I like watching prices race to the bottom to save money myself, but it is crazy watching stores completely give up their margin for short term sales.

[@matthewtaylor-h6q]

Not related to the content of the video but how does the battle tech stuff move in your store, looks like you have a pretty good selection How is the availability of stuff from CGL? I heard it used to be quite sporadic but had gotten better

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I would say its not bad, we have a little community that meets up a couple times a month and plays alpha strike. The Battletech boxes are sell at quiet but decent clip. Its not massive but I don't have to do much work. I bring in modest amounts of new releases and it just does its thing.

[@bobshoby]

Armada I think you give not enough credit. I think it was poised for some very successful releases with the clones wars factions which younger guys love. The game was sold before that was fleshed out

[@kingbonezai4925]

Armada Legacy is where those of us who wish to keep playing have gone

[@JC-gv6sq]

X-Wing did really well around my area but slowly died off, after a while you have so many ships and don't want to buy a re-painted A-Wing just for a new Pilot card. Armada on the other hand had a hard death, we had some interest but the Net-deck "That Player" killed it off. No one wanted to buy into a game where if you didn't buy 10 of this ships for a specific upgrade card or run a certain list you were going to lose.

[@Strange8ractor]

Played x-wing, bought a lot of stuff, but the game to me felt flat. It wasn’t fun at all if you were mismatched, and in my community it was very cutthroat. But I loved Armada. I found a local group that had a mix of skill levels, but everyone was relaxed and people brought all kinds of lists. It was more strategic and I found it much more rewarding than x-wing. Then I moved to a city with zero Armada. I’ve still got all my stuff, maybe if I wait long enough they’ll be worth something again.

[@Strange8ractor]

Wait…the tournament scene isn’t enough to make a game commercially successful? Does that include the 6th edition WHFB tournament scene?

[@JasonRoe71]

At our store X-Wing has been circling the drain pretty much. There are the diehards that have a community night but most of those guys have all the minis and with no influx of new players, well you know how that goes. As far as Legion we do have a pretty active community that plays it. But, I would classify the sales as mediocre. I think this was a case of AMG also getting saddled with a lot of properties they just weren't really capable of supporting properly. With them paring this down I'm hopeful they will be able to give the time and resources to the remaining properties. The other AMG games have do have the hobby side as well and we have people buy MCP and Shatterpoint models just because they are fans of the comics or movies.

[@BadDecisionDinosaur89]

As someone who played a fair bit of Armada and some X-Wing, I think the reality is that AMG let both games die (and is letting Legion die). I believe this is because they want to make MCP and Shatterpoint, and never wanted to make the FFG games. Both Armada and X-Wing saw VERY little support for years after they were moved to AMG, to the point were releases that seemed imminent such as faction starters, repackaging ships for 2.0 and more. Rising cost of getting these models prepainted seems like a very weird excuse for me. As stated, they're just about the only games in the wargaming space that come with prepaints, so I think a pivot towards unassembled/unpainted models should have been viable (in terms of customer reception at least). Even "ending" the game in this way feels to me like a cynical move to drive customers towards Shatterpoint; "Don't bother waiting for us to support these games, go play the new game instead!". In the end however, the real culprit is Embracer group/Asmodee, who spent the better part of a decade stripping FFG down in the name of synergy and left them holding a pile of debt. A very sad turn of events for a company that was once doing incredible things blending the edges of boardgames and wargames.

[@benytreeide568]

I still have a large collection of X-wing models. I think I still have 1.0 cards in storage. I still think that it is fun to play and will get it out with friends from time to time. I've never really played it competitively.

[@dwarrenmsp]

I"m guessing that we'll see a Legion 2.0 which is all developed by AMG and no vestigial FFG announced at Adepticon 2025. As for Shatterpoint, I sold mine because I found it boring.

[@timunderbakke8756]

I saw this coming a mile away. AMG is responsible, not the pandemic. X-wing survived the pandemic (sorry, arguing with the press release not you). AMG’s flip to their own 2.5 is what ruined it because it made the game entirely unlike the move + shoot dogfighting game we all loved and instead a whombo combo game that was trying to hold onto static objectives somehow

[@pedrojustice]

static objectives ruined it for many people. They were clearly applying some weirdo logic. Pushing for hero-wing killed it to many people who liked to play squaddrons of generics. I'm neutral in the loadout rules (i can see that it could be made work it, even in 1.0 chassis if you really focus on balancing) and the initiative rules. The game having rotating formats as a copying mechanism for not having product stock, bad too

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@pedrojusticeabsolutely - I participated in the only Worlds that was with the true 2.0 rule set. I flew, wait for it, 2 named guys and 3 generics. Nuking the generic option was among the dumbest choices AMG did. The rotating format wasn’t great, but I sort of understood because the ability to reprint that many ships at once would have been very difficult to pull off. I think it could have been done in waves, similar to how they restocked 1.0 content, just repackaging them in 2.0 with some conversion kit cards. The loadout was objectively bad. It forced whombo combo. You were at a serious disadvantage if you didn’t max your loadout, but then you’d need to remember a billion possible triggers. I remember trying to play one game of 2.5 to give it a fair shake and had too many cards to fit on my side of the game mat. I guarantee I missed a lot of triggers. We played 3 turns of the game, and it took 2 hours. Terrible feeling, compared to playing a game to completion in 60-90 minutes

[@normtrooper4392]

The more I watch this channel, the more I realise just how unusual and successful games workshop have been as a company

[@toferkrz946]

IKR. Games Workshop and Warhammer are like the Blizzard and World of Warcraft of tabletop. A company that pioneered a unique business model and, through a confluence of coincidences and being in the right place at the right time in history, became a juggernaut of the industry, with hopeful copycats rising up and falling over decades.

[@normtrooper4392]

@@toferkrz946 i really don't think another company can do what they did. They do plenty of heinous stuff; if they were more pro-consumer, I feel like they'd capture the market entirely. But all that being said, they're crazy successful relative to everyone else.

[@prophet89]

It pays to basically be first on the market. Also with it being the 80s they didn't get their asses sued off with all the content they stole.

[@rcdemoral1982]

That's sad. I've always wanted to try it out, it looked fun. Lack of friends and time really limits buying new games tho...

[@105Gunner]

This was great. More non-GW content please! Would love to hear your thoughts as a retailer on Catalyst’s difficulties in getting the Battletech kickstarter out.

[@Tobydigital]

Me as a Warmachine and guild ball player looking at the Starwars Xwing/Legion players saying….. First time?!

[@Octarinewolf]

Legion was to me the fourth Star Wars infantry game (WEG' Minitures Battles and WoTC's CMG) and the second one from Fantasy Flight (after Imperial Assault). Shatterpoint as the fifth has the problem it wants me to buy all the figures again in a different scale. And I look at all the Storm troopers and Vaders I already have.

[@kennethfharkin]

AT-43, Starship Troopers, Battlefleet Gothic, Warmachine, and Uncharted Seas player here...

[@stefanlvkc7986]

@@kennethfharkin I feel you on AT-43...

[@eaglesfly5236]

Never bought into X-Wing but went heavy into Armada, which to me is a much better game.

[@owlfighter4377]

I heard in the Embracer Group break down of Asmodee that Legion was there only profitable product last year and with Embracer Group about to split in too three new companies next year. I doubt they cancel Legion now.

Got some first edition X-Wing stuff to play with my son and it's really fun.

[@crann777]

Oh good, looks like the Fantasy Flight curse extends to all of Asmodee; if a game lasts for more than three years it's a miracle. Also, I can't disagree with that shopping list.

[@rokassan]

I love Armada. Got a bunch of it from all of the factions. It figures it would go under.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

It's like, the more you love something...the more is slips away? Or something. Tbh just keep playing the game you love

[@earnestwanderer2471]

There’s only so many ships and pilots. How can you keep adding new stuff if the IP is a closed system. It’s like WWII games. There’s only so many tank models you can design and produce.

[@pedrojustice]

it didnt help at all that AMG pushed the game to Herowing instead of letting generics and "make your own pilot" have a chance

[@dominicmetzger3246]

Lasting 12 years or so isn’t that short of a life imo. I think the situation is because prepainted models cost way too much and they needed to charge at least double what the current price is.

[@andymeechan3924]

The card stock would have had a massive impact on the price.

[@mikefish1124]

All IP tabletop miniatures games have a definite ending point. Eventually you just run out of stuff to do

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

Seems to be the case

[@DungusDingus]

I bought the starter set back in 2013, I played it with a friend and we loved it and went to the local game shop and bought a ton of more ships. When second edition came out I just didn't want to rebuy everything again so I stopped playing.

[@akumaking1]

And this was shortly after the disaster that is the Acolyte.

[@puracy3452]

The playerbase for 2.0 was fine in numbers. The tournament scene in that time was the biggest ever then. The sales problem mostly came from the fact that all the players who used to buy everything on release, had their product due to the conversion kits. So the game was played, but the "new" releases stayed on the shelves.

[@deleonfrancis60]

Good luck with battlefront that games kicking ass

[@carlk8308]

We have the models. We have the cards. Doesn't matter. 🙂

[@bryanvestal3923]

So sad . Both are really good games

[@ccgear4367]

Unlimited is next.

[@travisskane5459]

Already scraping the bottom of the content barrel in set two. Like the video stated: everyone gets excited for the Luke and Vader cards, not so much for Finn and Rose.

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

1. Star Wars Fans overestimate how much people love/know Star Wars outside of the Original Trilogy, outside of maybe the Prequels. 2. Disney Star Wars has had a net negative on the brand, thus XWing couldn’t have evolved past XWings v TIEs. Nobody wanted Sequel Trilogy stuff, nobody wants anything that’s come from Disney’s Streaming Shows. There’s not enough EU Fans wanting to play XWing.

[@otherdave2]

Games have a life cycle. X-Wing I think got a fair shake, while Armada didn't IMO. I liked X-Wing because I was able to turn my collection over between editions, after having my fun with it. Folks if a game comes out that looks good and looks like it will have traction, don't sleep on it! You can still play 'dead' games but not if you don't already have a community.

[@jordancameron3584]

Time of death, Sept 2018. Stopped hard at second edition.

[@briandhaze5906]

Xwing is my second favorite game under Warhammer Quest. I spent close to a thousand dollars on that game. Then they made a second edition which NULLIFIED all the money and passion i spent, and I was instantly done. That, coupled with the shit Disney passes for good entertainment KILLED my enthusiasm. This game's death was earned, and the only satisfaction I have now is from watching all this crap fail. Shame. Shame. Shame.

[@justinperez4215]

I hate to say it but when X wing came out, you had to have known it was going to be a limited run. There is only so much you can do with ship combat. Legion has so much more they can pull from Same with Marvel which is 3000 unique characters according to Google.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

yes but after the first couple hundred.. casual customers have no idea what they are looking at

[@justinperez4215]

@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 you mean for x wing? Much smaller than a few 100

[@ArthurLehmann]

V2 was a really bad decision; it should have been something less invasive and less suffocating to the player and to the community in general, with a strategy that does not cause all of your investment to go down in a blink of an eye.

[@johaadganor1684]

I loved X-wing, but really It was just a waiting room for legion for me. Wanted a starwars wargame so once legion came out I lost interest in it.

[@corneliussulla9963]

Spam trash

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

Cheeky.