StarCraft 1 with 1hp! Push of the Reavers!

[@flushed5747]

7:31 the biggest tragedy about the worst building to ever exist in StarCraft, the observatory, is not that it makes a really rad noise when you click it, it's that it has a really cool building graphic. If I ever make an SC1 mod with a couple new units per faction, it's getting repurposed to something more respectable.

[@shadowarchon7964]

Even if I do think the weird resource placements feel charming and more organic, starting only with workers and no buildings always sucks so much, which makes the beginning of these levels every single time so slow and boring. At least it's not like WarCraft 2. There's a level here and there where you start out with half the map being a no-build mission and a starting army, and the next half requires you to build up a base from squat to take on an entrenched enemy base. Those levels take forever, especially since the better you are at the first part, the longer it takes to build up in the second due to needing more farms before you can get an acceptable amount of workers. It's literally a speed run strategy in WarCraft 2 to kill your own units at the start of most levels throughout the campaign just so you can get your economy out faster.

[@flushed5747]

At least in this mission there's a pretense of getting to pick multiple places to set up your base. The second BW protoss mission and the ZvZ in vanilla zerg don't even give you that. There's definitely a way to do this mechanic without it being boring, like an NPC player nearby that will join you if rescued and conveniently has enough pylons for you to start your economy up.

[@7thAce]

I think it's telling when they cut down on it a ton in Brood War (BWP2, BWP4, BWZ2, and BWZ3 are the only ones). It seems like they limited it to when you went to a new location and also wanted to give the feel of barely having anything (losing aiur so running to shakuras, Kerrigan not having control over the zerg).

[@MasterShanicus]

I liked the take Warcraft 3 had on the mission with the 1st Blood Elf mission - during the no-build section you can find instant-build items, so you can slam down your base immediately instead of standing around for 5 minutes waiting for everything to build.

[@flushed5747]

@@MasterShanicus I guess the SC1 version of that would just be what I suggested, but whichever outpost you don't rescue gets overrun lol

[@vumasster]

Imagine being so bad at fighting that your people invented the psionic storm and the reaver in a 1HP universe and you still managed to lose

[@7thAce]

Turns out you should probably have a good mineral only unit. Sorry protoss, you failed.

[@thunder____]

13:35 Idk, I think the ability to stop scarabs in their tracks without dealing any damage by hitting stop seems pretty useful for co-op. Especially any (definitely hypothetical) missions that start you off with reavers, just a few workers, and no base.

[@7thAce]

You know... You might be onto something.

[@TheRagesEcho]

So excited to see how you handle Brood War :3c

[@7thAce]

Protoss: Pain. Terran: Finally, good units. Zerg: 3 million zerglings.

[@TheRagesEcho]

@@7thAce Yeah that sounds about right.

[@rocket_hops]

i fucking loveee this tactic, i wanna see someone use it in melee

[@Omperor]

26:17 Wait, so Zeratul doesn't have to kill the thing directly, he just needs to be close by?

[@LuminousLead]

Yeah

[@7thAce]

Correct, there are no kill triggers in SC1. All of them are "if is in a box and 0 are in that box".

[@Sraw5]

SC1 isn't sophisticated enough to know what unit type kills a unit. Best it can do is tell what player the killers unit is owned by (for score reasons). All the levels with zera/dts/cerebrates you can just hold position barely outside range and kill them with anything

[@Omperor]

@ Huh, so HOW close does Zeratul have to be? Can he be a little farther away? Does this victory condition work with other Dark Templar?

[@7thAce]

@Omperor He's gotta be within range 1, roughly. It works the same way for other DT missions like BWP3 and BWZ8.

[@mundljemand2214]

corsair will be the first good protos unit in broodwar

[@7thAce]

You'll get to see how good very soon :) It's niiiiiice

[@mundljemand2214]

@@7thAce :D

[@Zelinkokitsune]

So did Brown just not spawn with a Hive up top or something?

[@7thAce]

I'm not sure and I can't open it in the editor right now. Sraw may know.

[@Sraw5]

I wrote a big long explanation and then it got eaten. Basically, the extraction tool has problems when there are multiple forces with the exact same name. In blizzards infinite wisdom, all 3 zerg on this map are different forces named the same thing. This means the triggers meant to target brown or white, sometimes are aimed at red instead. Since red doesn't own brown's cerebrate, it kills everything there (Spore, Cerebrate, Hive) and places reds cerebrate. Repeat for reds cerebrate at whites location (Spore, Cerebrate). I had anticipated the same problem for AI scripts, but missed this more nuanced level-specific bug, and its an example of how the maps aren't perfectly replicating original design and so I have to fix them to be even correct on that front. I'm somewhat shocked that the victory triggers didn't fail for this mission with the cerebrates now being owned by red, but apparently that aspect doesn't matter. Edit: And yes, lack of a hive does impede brown's ability to play correctly, however he does own a hatchery (hes set to try to always have a hatchery, which is why he doesn't build a new one). So once he runs out of his 30k mins and gas (I didn't bother to estimate how long that takes, but surely its a long time), he would just break completely. More of the issue is half the larva income. Vanilla, If he loses his defiler mound but not his hive he could technically rebuild it, but without a hive in this he can't, so theres that minor tech issue if you were to poke defiler tech.