WALLBOARD ON TUB

This is not the best way to set wallboard, in my opinion the ONLY WAY !!

[@StarrTile]

IF THIS HELPED YOU THEN HELP ME HERE www.paypal.com/donate/?token=7rVJdW7Mt2gppEUOTnO6p2oydgTK9cKNXOYB78uWDuQBIrQLl5I03ARvnIeBwn2HTMqkZW6skgd2U0PC&locale.x=US&Z3JncnB0=

[@luv14lyf]

This link doesn't work😕

[@nja3224]

Was just going to say the same.

[@luv14lyf]

Hey Bob, did you ever figure out what's wrong with this link?

[@StarrTile]

I'm not sure, sometimes PayPal is funny on their links..try this www.paypal.com/donate/?token=kncnthfk6W1tGnTGsn7Vb4EMQUmyLoXFKbv6ljOdrdrG64Tn_XRUxin-ov24MVLonjCzlCCUwWG2LhmZ&locale.x=US

[@nja3224]

@@StarrTile Still not working

[@basilbcf]

Glad I found this video. I'm in the process of a total bathroom remodel, including of course re-tiling my tub/shower. I'm not a tile expert, but I am an engineer and understand fluid dynamics and what you have said about mounting the backer board above the lip makes a lot of sense.

[@laurikennedy3147]

This little kzbin.infoUgkxVoi3B4CB6Oygq1-vo4OTL1M_M5JkrXif tub works perfect in our 6 x 6 shower and is easy to get in and out. Also easy to drain.

[@RolandTemple]

I read the tub instructions that came with my new tub and it said to run your wall board OVER the tub flange. Not something I'm used to doing. So I was interested in shim techniques to do that. This video gives a solid argument to continue to do things the right way, thank you!

[@davep857]

I know this is an older video, but I've been re-watching tile videos again after leaving for a few years from an 18 year run in the basement finishing business I started in 2001 in Chicago. I've cone all my own tile work on bathrooms, flooring and bars for 12 years of that time. I discovered your channel in 2015 on building shower pans. I love your detail and real world experience explanations of how to understand each step of your methods. I've found tile work to be exciting to complete and with the many versions of methods on the proper procedures, its more a challenge to find relatable examples to my own experiences in tile work. Thank you so much Bob for the time you take to help teach real hands on applications for tile methods. I've got 4 bathroom jobs lined up now and one is a large master bath with certain tile requirements that will likely challenge my skills. But that's how we grow in our skill sets, we can't wait for the experience to just find us. It's consistently stepping out of our current comfort skill zones to try new and more difficult projects. With help from people like you and the detailed videos you do, I know I can learn and apply my skills to achieve professional results. Thank you again Bob, your awesome! Dave Another aspiring home remodeler from Chicago

[@StarrTile]

Thank you sir, I appreciate the kind words, yes there are a hundred ways to skin a cat, and thousands of people on KZbin trying to show you, everything I do is my method and probably quite a bit different from others... But end result should be similar acroos the board

[@davep857]

@@StarrTile Bob, I have a material question that I hope you may have some input on. I'm set to begin tiling a tub shower wall job soon. My customer chose a 3/16" (very thin in my opinion for a shower wall application) wavy translucent glass subway tile on a 12x12 approx. sheets for the walls. My thoughts having never installed glass tile that thin, are that possible cracking after curing due to expansion and contraction could occur with thin glass tile. Am I reading to deep into this, also the glass tiles will all have a cut edge for every other tile on them on the outside walls where they meet the transitioning drywall surface. This scenario has a few new challenges for me so any input would be much appreciated. I will have to find a tile edge method to make the edge of cut glass tiles look professional. I doubt my customer asked about the glass tile sheets being approved for wet applications. I'll have to ask tomorrow at the job. Thanks again Bob for your input and great videos. Dave BDI Remodeling

[@joshualopez2679]

Hey, I just want to say thank you very much for making this video. I am in the process of doing this today, I told my dad about this video (he's been in construction for about 40 years - tile is his specialty) and he said everything you said is correct. So, thank you for making great, honest videos. Please keep it up.

[@gregniemelacarpentryllc]

I take zip tape and wrap the edges of the drywall

[@wbrowning52ify]

Thank you for answering this question about where to set the wall board. I'll take the advice of experience for what to do and what not to do over textbooks any time. I'm working on a bathroom remodel in a house that's from the late '70's. The walls are close to being plumb. Every wall sits on the edge of the bubble at the line. All wall slope is wider at the ceiling than the tub. I'll need to work on the studs before setting the backer board and sealing. I'm still doing the research to do everything the right way. Thank you for taking the time to teach others through videos such as this. It means a lot for people like myself.

[@rbittel3274]

Hi Bob thank you for this great video. My tub/shower failed & I have scoured the internet to understand this interface between cement board and tub flange so I get it right. While I am generally a DIYer, I had this work done 11 years ago by a reputable 'professional' when I was overwhelmed by my day job. Anyway, the thing I wanted to relate is that he did actually follow your method and the cement board still got soaked. What I wanted to add as perhaps a caveat to your explanation, is that you need to also pay attention to your air block & vapour barrier system. My installation has two exterior walls and I live in a cooler climate. I think I have pieced together what went wrong, and as with most failures, it was a few things. My contractor failed to put a vapour barrier behind the cement board on one of the exterior walls and did not take the time to properly complete/seal the vapour barrier on the other wall. He also missed insulation between one of the stud spaces on one of the walls. He also did not fully seal the penetrations. He did not liquid seal the cement board, which would be ok as long he had used a traditional plastic sheet vapour barrier behind it as per code in my area (cold climate means vapour barrier is on warm side of insulation). I can't say I did an awesome job maintaining the silicone caulking between the tub and cement board nor annually seal the grout lines - although I did both periodically - so I guess I have to wear some of this. Either way, the air seal was incomplete and there were other gaps (ie. at the penetrations) and the fact the tile/grout & cement board is not in itself a total block if unsealed. So I ended up with very, very wet cement board, soaked from the back side where the humid air hit the cold. The epicenter was where the insulation was missing and thus the coldest. Here the cement board warped and exacerbated grout failure (which I tried to repair a couple of times not knowing what was going on behind the wall) - the wetness spread in a cone shape from there. So long story short, I just wanted to add to your good recommendation that the vapour barrier and how you block humid air from going behind your wall (air block) is important to consider. If you choose to liquid seal the tile side of your cement board, this qualifies as a vapour barrier, but then you need to make sure you seal the tub to cement board interface with silicon and also any penetrations, to prevent air getting behind your wall and condensing. If you don't use the liquid seal approach, that is ok too, but then you must install a traditional vapour barrier (ie. plastic sheet) between your cement board and your insulation. The latter seems acceptable by building standards, but I don't like the idea of the water condensing on the plastic sheet if the air block is incomplete, so I'm going to fully liquid seal the cement board and silicone all air gaps. I'm also going to try acrylic grout, which is supposed to not requiring sealing and is less likely to crack over time. The acrylic grout will only be on the walls and not used for shower floor tile (since I have a tub) - where I have seen people report it can fail (ie. if wet all the time). Hope that helps someone.... or perhaps generates some discussion - I don't purport to be an expert and maybe someone wiser or more experienced will correct me - but my contractor certainly failed the test!.... I am still bitter I have to take on this project, not to mention the money wasted on a contractor!

[@joedean9834]

Look into the Kerdi system by Schluder. It is a little pricey, but combines the backer board and waterproofing into one system.

[@stephaniek2913]

Thank you for all your comments. I'm just getting started and this gives me a lot of things to keep in mind.

[@foggymtnbreakdown]

If you had the time, like a DIYer, you could always paint a liquid waterproofing membrane (Red Guard, Aqua Defense, etc.) on the bottom edge of the wall material BEFORE you screw it to the studs. I also coat a few inches on the back side of the wall material with the liquid membrane. No wicking in that case, no matter where you put the wall material, but I still don't put the wall material on the tub deck. StarrTile would say that I am being redundant, but that is OK, because this is the area where the failures always occur. Don't let the wicking even begin.

[@Bbbbbbbbbbb-f1w]

I do the same thing👍

[@12thDecember]

That's a great idea. This is why I _always_ read the comments, because that's how you learn some extra tips and tricks.

[@joedean9834]

Red guard should be applied on the whole shower surround. Water goes through tile and grout. Red guard waterproofs your shower

[@smitlag]

I follow your methods but introduce an extra step which only takes a few minutes. Before mounting the green board or cement board , I Red Guard the first 3 inches of the board including the edge on both sides. So not only is the board mounted where you show it, but that edge is sealed

[@HDCrumbsnatcher]

thank you. brillant. gonna do this tomorrow

[@Bbbbbbbbbbb-f1w]

That’s what I do too!

[@jens2763]

I did as well thinking I was being anal. Good to know others do that.. 😆

[@mikelazowsky173]

Amateur question: what is a Red Guard 🤔 ???

[@StarrTile]

Nothing wrong being anal, better that way

[@bhickey4009]

Your hands are your resumé 👍 thank you for posting this with examples from your experience, I'm setting and tiling around a tub for the first time and I was having a hard time finding out whether to go over or above the lip. What you say, leaving a gap between the board and the lip to prevent mold, makes sense to me!

[@chadlove3443]

Thank you. I just watched 2 videos showing to sit the cement board on the tub, but the lip seems to be about 1/2" thick, same as the cement board, and if you were to install the board onto the edge of the tub, it will be curved at the bottom.... So many people saying different things. I'm just going to hang the tile down a quarter inch over the lip to cover up the screws.

[@12thDecember]

Finally, after watching about 10 videos, I've got the answer I'm looking for. Thank you! I bet that's a Kohler tub. I just had one installed (which is why I'm watching this video about backer board), and the lip on the front (the "wet side") is 2 inches wide, the lip along the side is 1 inch wide, and the lip at the back is 4 1/2 inches wide. _All_ of them have a bullnose design for water to flow into the tub instead of sitting on the lip.

[@steveward1181]

I have done a few tubs and showers in my 50 years in houses. I too stay up on the shower pan lip or tub lip, but I always added a plastic J molding on the bottom edge of any material I was installing, be it greenboard, drywall,cement board,etc. It has absolutely helped protect the raw edge against bad stuff in the future. Thanks for your video and good advice.

[@kirktownander2825]

I see the possible benefit of this, but what supports the grout behind that lowest 1/2” of tile where it projects past the bottom of the green board or Durock?

[@mrDmastr19]

I’ve watched all the “pros” on KZbin. And I’m still in the homework phase of re modeling my bathroom. I got to say, I agree with Bob on this. And his method for the backer/ tub flange will be what I follow.

[@michaelreilly3347]

What you are saying about how the board should be on top of the lip is absolutely right. It is the best practice, however, in my opinion it is not the splashing from below that causes this damage. The reason the caulking shows mold and mildew and the wall board fails and wicks up water is because of the caulk itself. Any moisture that wicks through the grout work in the tiles above (because very few people actually continue to seal tiles after the initial install) will work its way down the waterproofing layer to the bottom where it gets trapped by the caulk. It just sits there and festers and soaks everything. The mildew in the caulk keeps coming back because it is permeating through from the backside. The absolute best way to solve this almost no one ever does. Don't caulk the seam. Allow moisture to escape and the materials to dry.

[@bmcginnis6543]

I bought a Dreamline shower pan last week. The instructions specifically state to put the backer board on top (above) of the pan edge. Not over it - in any way. So it cannot wick moisture up.

[@dougl945]

I always install above lip, on green drywall. Never ever a water problem or mold. I can after 25 years of use.

[@jonc222]

Thank you. It’s clear that the board should be just above the lip, but what about the tiles? Set them with a small gap to the edge? And do you caulk that edge or leave it open so any water that does get behind the tiles can drain into the shower?

[@johnbalogna803]

Very informative thanks. We are doing my son bath remodel this week so it was definitely informative. Were removing his tub and putting in a shower pan. Using mold resistant rock and the palisades grout-less tile system. New subscriber thanks you much for the timely instruction.

[@menchelke]

Hey thanks again for posting these videos. I am working on a reefer container tiny home, and just putting in my wallboard around the tub flange, I only put 1 sheet up, and then was like... oh I need to double check StarR Tile. I did it correctly, but it's because I have came back to this video half a dozen times over the years to keep refreshing myself. Invaluable information as always, thanks again!!!

[@jimreitenbach6023]

Bob you're right and it makes total sense. Above the lip and leaving a gap. I do block in between each stud for support at the tub lip.

[@charlesjohn6500]

No, you are making sense. Thank you so much for these informative instructions. There is no way I could have known this.

[@LinneaMae68]

Thank you for this. I just took possession of a place and both bathrooms have the drywall coming right down to the tub. One looks exactly like that tiled wall at the beginning of your video. I called Bath Fitters and mentioned that the people before did that and they replied "drywall is supposed to come down inside the tub lip" 🤦🏻 nevermind...I won't be needing your services. To me it just seems common sense. Water is the most invasive element. No amount of silicone will keep it out.

[@jeffdyrland2795]

So friggin funny how I watched that exact Sal video right before I watched this one! Haha

[@elipicon5020]

Me too😂😂

[@troycarothers8254]

Your description of the proper wallboard setting never gets old. You have mentioned this many times in your videos, yet installers keep making the same mistake over and over. The happy homeowner wonders why, after a few months they have mold along the bottom row of tiles. SMH!!

[@Clickumentary]

Glad I watched your whole video.. my decision is made. I was waffling on whether to shim out studs to bring the hardibacker over the lip. The "expert" at Floor and Decor store gave me grief about my decision to bring down to the top of the lip, suggesting the tile would fail. I'm definitely going to tape and thinset the gap and use waterproofing before tiling. Thinking Mapei Aqua defense. Thanks!

[@georgebell3964]

I am about to do my tub and shower over again. And I’ve been looking for someone who knows what they’re talking about. And you have answered all my questions my friend Great job.

[@geneduclos4003]

Great video. Thank you for taking the time. Now, what if one is not installing tile over the sheet rock, how is that gap filled? Thanks.

[@mariopaquet1768]

Hey Bob! Im a big fan. I just HAD to go and check how my bathtub was set. I didn’t built it. It’s probably 7-10 years old. Maybe more. The results? My tub doesn’t have a lip! It’s squared. So the drywall had to be set on top of it. The results is not too bad. So i guess it’s both techniques. Or neither. I DO have to keep a healthy bead of silicone around the tub. As always. If i ever do this job, I’ll defenitly set it like you do. Cheers Sir!

[@bobbybergman7141]

min 15 and 20:30 are the answers I needed, set it on the lip not the edge. love it thanks boss.

[@np1000]

I followed your technique for showwer install and left that 3/8 inch gap at the bottom and red guarded it all so the water will seep out. Makes so much sense.

[@jeffd5970]

In Michigan code back in the day, the board on top of the lip mostly because it will remain perfectly perpendicular and flush to the wall.. if you put it over the lip, then the board will be shimmed at bottom and not plumb at bottom...it will cause tile to flare out at bottom. The gap is filled with thinset and tiled 1/8" above top of tub. After tile set a while, you create a 1/8" gap under tile by remover thinset out at bottom with your trowel..and just like corners, those gaps are filled with siliconized caulking. BTW, most if not all mold in showers is from the user not cleaning their shower.

[@bryanbenson6551]

You can also shim your studs to allow your sheet goods to not have that bow at the tub flange.

[@nja3224]

I'm almost ready to durian my tub alcove. I've watched countless YT videos, including the ones shown in this video by others. You listen/watch each independently, and they all sound right. This video is the latest one I watched, and I decided to go with this method. Ill take real world experience and knowledge gained over time over the "book" any day of the week. I'm also going to silicone the gap, even though you suggested it isn't necessary. It didn't sound like it can hurt, might be a waste and redundant but that's alright. I think ill sleep better, lol. Thank you for this. Will be making a donation.

[@chrishuskey1459]

Thanks . Very helpful . I'm using solid surface (corian) for walls . I'm now going to put a thin strip of solid surface on the edge, then the wall board on top of the strip . This might work with other waterproof materials creating another waterproof barrier to prevent wicking.

[@iviaverick52]

I prefer the method of using flashing tape on the lip, up along the studs, running behind cement board, with the cement board sitting on the lip as you mentioned, then redgard on everything. The flashing tape may be overkill, but it never hurts to be cautious.

[@Musicofjonesey]

I watched the “Sal” guy first when YouTubing how to join my tub with the wall and my inexperienced rear knew better than sitting any substrate below the flange🤦🏻‍♂️. Thanks for the reassurance.

[@franksanchez834]

Thank you so much for this awesome video. I learned a lot, I’m glad I took the time to watch your video because I was going to do it all wrong, lol. Again I appreciate you taking the time to educate us.

[@roady1710]

Just watched your video home built in 1960 have a steel tub doing a bathroom remodel as we speak was thinking first working with go board which seems to be a good product but was originally going to take it over the edge good advice going to go to the lip all makes sense when you think about it the tub manufacturer built that lip so there was nothing to worry about for water leaks basically a built-in pool liner thanks for this great piece of advice

[@brianmorris7498]

T Y ! I will take experience in the field over “book” every time ! Great info! And your work in your craft is amazing!!

[@frankmollegaard1989]

Your method is consistent with American Standard tubs installation guide. ie set your cement board on the lip or 1/16 " above the lip of the tub and overlap the tile down to the tub edge leaving a slight gap. My question is how does the grout work when overlapping the tile like that. To me the grout is going to squeeze out into the gap behind the tile.

[@12thDecember]

I don't know who else does this, or whether Bob agrees, but I _think_ the Home Renovision guy uses thinset to fill in that space between the tile and the tub that isn't covered by backer board. So when that sets, it will prevent the grout when you apply it from squeezing out. Hope that makes sense.

[@TrevDog513]

Came back to inform that the Craft + Main Shower Base instructions have a big warning indicating your install method is the correct way. It shows a very good diagram with labels, too.

[@bigwave_dave8468]

Good video content with an unpleasant twist. So getting down to fundamentals: 1) All wallboard, backerboard will wick unless it is sealed with an elastomer (silicon/redgaurd etc.) ahead of time. 2) you should have an air-gap between any water carrying horizontal surface and the board. 3) you should not have any direct contact between wallboard and water carrying tub flange or lip. The shape of the tub lip suggests the manufacturer intended the wallboard to go inside so that's a bit puzzling. I would be interested to know if you have observed a *properly assembled* (to a known builder's specification) inside-the-lip installation with 1/4" air gap between flange and wallboard. I don't have access to the builder's spec but it looks like they identify various build-ups and it looks like there's membrane specified. After seeing various videos and discussion, my conclusion is to *always* seal the ends of the wall-board no matter what type of buildup-- your friend was essentially doing that by squirting RTV silicon (not acrylic caulk) between wallboard and tub lip. PS: your lived experience is obviously different than other folks with just as much experience (in different climate zones) as you so it's kinda sh*tty to bag on folks without seeing the long term result of their work, specifically. The builders specification was written by someone based on experience, probably like you, so a better discussion would be to challenge the assertion, contact the author of the specification so the code gets fixed then we all win.

[@MissTriciaMilitia]

Great video! We are remodeling the bathrooms after a sewer backup and I was trying to convince my contractor that it didn't make sense to me to shim out the boards. I didn't like that it was sitting down by where there would be water. I had to try to argue that I didn't care that the instructions said to lay it down on the pan, I just wanted to do it the other way anyway. SO GLAD to have some backup to my wish to do it this way!!!

[@CycleBreakerDragon]

Well... I'll be... i was JUST starting to shim the wall as seen in the first video, and this video popped up on my feed. Turns out I was right the first time. Ill be removing the extra boards now😂

[@scottpfeifer7782]

I've watched several of your videos on the topic of NOT resting the backerboard on top of the tub/pan ledge, but rather on or just above the lip. The you suggest not making contact with the tub with the tile either, but rather to leave a gap and not even seal it. Won't that look unfinished? I know it will prevent wicking and allow air to dry whatever water gets on top of the ledge, but I don't think that would look too swell. Do you have a video that shows what one of your finished jobs looks like, specifically the tile to tub area appearance?

[@darrenr1194]

I've never put wallboard infront of the lip. It always sits ONTOP of the LIP. Maufacturers of tubs state that wallboard be sat ontop of the lip. Never once have I seen a tile crack because of it being on the lip.

[@brandong.1857]

Interesting glad I've learned about Cement board wicking up water! Thanks

[@christianparks3370]

So I tiled my own tub shower a few months ago(it was my first one). The job turned out pretty descent, but I did put the hardiback a quarter of inch above the edge. I wish I would have watched your video first. Even so, I'm not that concerned about it because 1, it is hardiback, and 2 I put three cotes of Redguard on all of the Hardiback. But we will see if it lasts more than 10 years. Oh well, lessoned learned. Thanks for your videos.

[@xXBuckOFiveXx]

And Sal vs Bob saga continues 😂😂

[@jasonl7937]

Sal does great work but I'm with Bob and Jeff(renovision) on this.

[@fabiannino4106]

I just put up the wallboard and did it the right away on top of the lip. Never done one before but it just made sense. Better lucky than good

[@spag527]

The more videos I watch, the more confused I get. You make sense. Thank you. Do you agree with applying an exterior window wrap over flange and up the wall a few inches?

[@demixy23]

You certainly can, BUT, it's not necessary. I always say redundancy is king though!

[@al_adin]

So much gold in this video AND the comment section. Thank you

[@justice4all32]

So it was about the design of the tub, not necessarily where you place your backboard?

[@juniorcarmack8741]

I agree with you 100% on that issue. And like you said it comes from experience not from a book

[@salazteca1]

That’s it , from now on im only going to watch videos about tile from this channel Thanks much! for taking the time to share this content

[@sthomas7211]

As a painter i have learned a lot about the importance of shedding water properly and giving water a way to escape. It is near impossible to water proof everything. Wicking and trapped water will never dry out. Which gives off moisture (humidity) to the surrounding area = ROT, MILDEW.

[@A10Cobra]

Just replaced my own shower after 10 years because of water wicking up through the cement board. It was 1/4" above the flat instead of the lip. 100% agree with you. Capillary action is how trees bring water to their tallest heights. I guess people like to ignore nature's lessons.

[@petervol5069]

Hi Bob. You are absolutely right on this. I took out my 35 year old builder grade tub recently that had cheap 4 inch square ceramic tile installed with mastic over green drywall. That tub was used daily for showers for many years by a family of 5. To my surprise there was virtually no water damage or mould behind the tile and I believe it was because the builder installed the drywall on the tub lip just as you suggest.

[@1pcmedic]

I always set paint sticks on the edge of the tub to create a wick break gap, then secure the non-sheetrock of choice.

[@juanperales3351]

Very smart, and very important to learn!

[@ariyanwallace5830]

Fantastic video. Finally some good advice. Love it ❤

[@klincoln80]

My question is if I do it your way, what keeps the cool grout in place for the portion of the tile that is hanging down below the wall board. There needs to be something behind that grout so that it’s not just floating in the air

[@StarrTile]

The distance is perhaps three quarters of an inch, or even 1" from a typical 12x24 is nothing. Even a 4" tile grabs 3 inches of wallboard, so what's the issue ? Typically the grout is only as deep as the tile anyway. Run silicone where tiles bottom out at tub and that'll add strength too, but I have never encountered a problem.

[@codyp1056]

sure glad I saw this. I was just checking youtube before I installed the wallboard on a new tub

[@GilBatesLovesyou]

It's actually a little weird, this whole debate. Your way is actually the way manufacturer's recommend it, but over the lip seems to be the better way to a lot of experienced installers that otherwise follow TCNA/etc to the letter, even though it's specifically against manufacturer's recommendations, but they use their common sense. I personally think over the lip is better, working as a shingle, BUT then you need to either need to plane the studs below the tub for the lip, or shim or just sister in new studs entirely. I think it's better otherwise you rely on silicone, or a Kerdiband-esque seal around the tub lip for waterproofing, and not the "shingle" of the board over it, plus silicone. (I think Isaac in one of his videos uses a band type seal around the tub, but has the wallboard above the lip.) It's really a case where neither is wrong, but the "shingle" method may take way more prep and skill than most people actually have (I bowed my wall due to it, unfortunately...) as then you need to essentially relevel your whole wall setup. If you're in a situation where it's all out of whack anyway, I don't see why not to do it that way, but if everything's good, perhaps above the lip is better. I guess if you're wet shimming with Kerdiboard that's entirely irrelevant as it takes zero extra time, but with CBU or greenboard, it would take more time. Also I have my own Aquadefense in a cardboard box test, it's doing fine after a week and a half. In Europe all the liquid membranes are approved over drywall, but usually using a Kerdi-band sort of thing in corners/by the floor. I'd not worry about it personally now, and again almost wished I took the "shortcut" of just using greenboard instead of CBU as it hangs flatter, is easier to work with, and is cheaper.

[@justinlocke]

My last apartment, they had a handyman re do the tile and this is exactly what happened. plus the faucet control had a leak and it saturated all around. Just curious tho, if you were continuing on this tub install, would you use grout or caulk where the tile meets the tub?

[@StarrTile]

Yes, very very common in apartments, I usually will put in grout, until there is a reason to use caulking I don't advocate for it... although I have done direct caulking in there without grout, it depends on the application I suppose

[@mercedesfoster482]

Wow, thank you for the GREAT information. I am getting ready to install a shower pan and I am going to follow your advice, THANK YOU!!!!

[@TwoTracksOutdoors]

So, Bob, your arguments for cement board being placed on or above the lip, certainly make sense. Throughout all of your videos, you have certainly now driven this good point home. I take it by your foam comment, then, that you could set styro foam wallboard directly on the edge, whether it be a tub or shower bed But, would you?? Even using styrofoam on your walls, though, I would imagine you would still lay your floor tile first, then the wall tile. After watching so many of your videos about elevating the wall panels to avoid water problems, I would probably elevate the foam panels, as well, unless you say otherwise. Good video.

[@StarrTile]

I have rarely used foam panels for my shower builds, but yes I would probably by habit still raise them above the floor, although it's innocuous because foam won't wick up water the way everything else will.... for a tub application like seen on the video I have no compunction about setting it on the edge rather than the lip if it's foam.

[@TwoTracksOutdoors]

@@StarrTile Much obliged, Bob. Love your videos. Sure wish that Google would find a heart and re-monetize your channel. Just made a small Pay Pal donation to show my appreciation for your videos. Just like Justin below, your link didn't work for me, so took your suggestion, went to your main page and found the PayPal icon link.

[@StarrTile]

@@TwoTracksOutdoors you and me both, if they would remonetize me I would stop begging for money 😂😂😂😂

[@whattheschmidt]

I just want to put my plan here (doing this in a week) on my tub, I have the Kerdi Board, I will cut out the back 1/4" of the bottom 1/2" of the board and have that go over the flange of my tub. This will still leave a gap, but smaller, and I will use the Kerdi-Fix on the flange to the board meetup in the back. Then I should have more board for my bottom row of my 3x12" tile to fit onto and I believe it will be a cleaner, easier install. Just putting my plan out there since I am using polystyrene board! I think I have done enough research and this is a great plan...

[@RollinHomies]

No not Jeff too! 😆. Seems to me the best practice would be to just red guard the base of the wall board before installing. Just like priming exterior wood before installing.

[@MoneyManHolmes]

Yeah, if in doubt, just hit the bottom edge and a few inches up the back with some red gard. It couldn’t hurt anything.

[@patricekornickey4238]

OMGGGGG! THANK YOU!!!!! I watched a video you showed and I was about to make that terrible mistake! Thank you!

[@dougl945]

I have put in several showers, on tub walls, and I put greenboard on lip, never on tub edge. I always put silicone in gaps. I’ve torn showers out after getting bored with tile designs… and never had my work had Mildew or failed. I also put schluter membrane on greenboard.

[@RusticTrini57]

Thanks for posting. My situation is that my fiberglass tub has no lip and both attempts to caulk the tub/tile joint has failed, but just in one spot.Would you suggest applying window flashing or Schluters waterproof membrane to the cement board and top of tub and then retile? does waterproof membrane actually present water from seeping under it?

[@Evan-lx9lw]

I laid the pan for my shower. I think their instructions would have me follow the "bad" practices you address. But, if I use a single plastic fake-marble sheet for each wall (so there's no backer board or tile), I think I'd be ok with just gluing those boards to the studs. RIGHT? Thanks

[@StarrTile]

Correct

[@jodyrolandconstruction6577]

I’m with Sal on this one. If you use green board then yes I understand the wicking effect. But with Kerdi board and durarock with red guard you don’t have this issue. I personally don’t overlap due to the bow you get in the wall. Good luck to you sir in your future builds.

[@StarrTile]

Exactly, I mentioned about foam boards being innocuous... but my assumption is most people aren't using foam board if they are a diy'r because they're hard to come by And yes definitely on the bump-out portion which I didn't even talk about it on the video but it does happen 👍

[@thejeepguy2059]

Jody Roland Construction. There is absolutely no need for any wallboard to go past the flange. How do you not have a bulge when you do this with foam boards?

[@jodyrolandconstruction6577]

TheJeepGuy205 please read my original post again. Especially the second to last sentence. Thanks and have a great day.

[@GilBatesLovesyou]

@@thejeepguy2059 Sal wet shims his foam boards. Since foam boards are so light, you can actually put thinset on the studs in blobs, then just set the board level with no fasteners, then use fasteners and stop before they push the board in more, keeping it level. It's the main reason Sal uses foam boards, it saves a lot of time leveling and shimming. Cement boards are too heavy to wet shim like this, though. Sal's big rationale with foam boards and uncoupling mats like Ditra is it allows him to do less work, get done quicker, and have a better overall result. I kinda bet you could do it with ultralight drywall like Bob uses, as it's crazy light now. In UK as well they also actually set drywall to masonry with blobs of thinset-like adhesive and no fasteners (imo, smarter than what we do in USA to get drywall into masonry walls without building a stud wall, the fasteners almost always back out over time.)

[@howtodoitdude1662]

@@GilBatesLovesyou You can also use blobs of compound to set Sheetrock to concrete.

[@DanielJohnson-ps4xv]

Thanks I’m installing a new tub in my home and I feel this will prevent me from making a mistake.

[@davidphu7403]

Is it ok to leave 1/4 inch over the lip? A guy at Lowe’s to leave 1/2’ over the lip. That’s a little too much i think.Thanks for the video. Glad i bumped into it

[@M.Jsmile]

Thank you for this video. Never could understand others cuz they would point to nothing specific or shaky camera or bad angle . what kinda material would you put on a shower ceiling that will be tiled? Most videos show walls and floor not the ceiling. Thanks

[@bryanbenson6551]

How about waterproof the bottom of all bottom row wall boards? I always leave a gap, too, but painting on some waterproofing along those edges would be great insurance.

[@tonester1964]

Is leaving a gap at the bottom (i.e. 1/8) with no sealant caulk common? Does that detract or look unfinished?

[@rll1971]

Thanks! I almost made the mistake of overlapping the lip by following YT “gurus”. Kudos to you for presenting the evidence I needed to avoid making a huge mistake.

[@XCBen]

Both methods work. You just have to do them both correctly

[@christopherd7922]

Hardie Backer suggest keeping an 1/8' gap everywhere. With that being said would you keep it an 1/8'' above the lip? How do you waterproof that area between the top on the lip and the board? I saw other videos where they used a stick on ice and watershield what are your thoughts on that?

[@StarrTile]

Having an 1/8 gap isn't a bad idea... there always be slight movement with material... and yes you could fill in that Gap with something so it makes it easier to waterproof but honestly if you're getting that much water onto your wall you're doing something wrong to begin with. The biggest issue with having your wallboard touching the edge is wicking of moisture into your wall board, if it's raised above the edge to the lip then you're not going to have any problems.

[@brandonsander803]

I appreciate the video. My question is a little different. When I set my drywall on the lip, the drywall over hangs the flange edge by 1/4 inch. I’m putting in a tub surround that glues to the drywall, not tile. My question is if I need to fill the void between the edge and the surround, so the surround will have something behind it instead of a gap

[@StarrTile]

I would not worry about the overlap, it is small and would not affect the tile or the tub, and that Gap is left empty because if any water gets into it it will still dry out over time, although arguably you'll be caulking the bottom part of the tile at the end so no water should get into that Gap

[@scottakin14]

I've got an old cast iron tub that I'm keeping. The tub has an "edge" but no integrated tile flange "lip." The "edge" rolls strain back to the framing. I plan on using larger 12 in.length subway tile so after the durock is installed I'm not quite sure how much of the tile will be hanging off durock and hovering above the tub edge. This is actually what is delaying the entire start of this project. It makes me nervous the thought of not having the safety net of an integrated tile flange. I just keep thinking of water wicking in especially on the wet wall. Everyone locally has said to just set durock on tub edge and put a bead of the best caulk in gap. This goes against everything this video is about

[@Tru2Me3]

That is pretty much where I'm at in my project as well

[@scottakin14]

@@Tru2Me3 I took the plunge and just went for it. I treated the tub edge as if it were the flange. I installed durock leaving an 1/8th in. Gap above the tub edge and put a bead of GE lifetime warrantied against mold/mildew in the gap. (This may be a no-no per Starr tile guy. My tile will hang past that and I'll leave another gap between tile and tub "deck" and put a bead of caulk that matches my grout in that gap. I used an entire quart of aqua defense on every inch of durock backer board. I feel confident about the steps that i took. I also feel that if I succeed with keeping water from reaching the GE caulk that will be behind my tile that the mold growth won't occur but time will tell. I plan on maintaining the grout matching caulk making sure to reapply. 1 more thing that I did was apply aqua defense to the back side of the durock where it would meet the tub. I put 1 coat on on all 3 sides but only the bottom edge and 4 in. up the backside to stop mold growth. Hope this helps. It looks bulletproof but whether or not it is I don't know.

[@ConradAltan]

This is also our situation. The tub without a lip was installed back in the 70's. We don't know if that was the only choice back then, or if the installer didn't know better, or thought they would save a few cents. At one time I saw a video about leaving a gap above the edge of the tub, then filling the gap with backer rod, and caulking over that. But after watching this it looks like that would only work if you're lining your walls with something a solid surface wall like Corian, that wouldn't mold. I didn't save the link and haven't been able to find it since. I tried searching this channel but nothing is labeled as dealing with a tub WITHOUT a lip, and I don't want to watch them all.

[@StarrTile]

@user-qq7eo2xd3p .....kzbin.info/www/bejne/i367q4GPeZtmjdk

[@ConradAltan]

@@StarrTile That's an interesting video and the end result is beautiful. But there's no explanation of dealing with a tub without a lip?

[@bryanpeart]

Amazing video sir. I love how you used everybody else's videos on the boobtube too.

[@N-V-B]

Great video! So if I run my 1/2" cement board to the lip, what do you recommend for my tile transition at the edge? Do you stop the tile at bottom of cement board or run below? Do you run any thinset or hydroban between bottom of cement board to top of edge? Just want to be sure everything is well prepped.... Thank you!

[@kyleorr533]

I would think you run the tile below the cement board all the way to the tub and leave a small gap…1/16 to 1/8 inch for the the grout caulking. That’s what he meant by 10-15% of the tile with no contact…it’s not touching the fiberglass flange but floating on top of it all the way to the base where it is then grout caulked. So essentially, there is a very small void behind the bottom half inch or so of the tile. This prevents/limits moisture from wicking up your substrate over time. Tile isn’t porous so moisture won’t travel up it. I’ve even seen a video of a guy putting window tape flashing on half the flange and then the rest up the studs (only goes up the stud a foot or so). I’ll probably do this but definitely won’t put the substrate touching the shower base. The installation instructions even have it as this video describes.

[@situatedillness]

put mesh tape on the joint, then use thinset to fill the gap or set that tape, do that to all your joints, then use a roll on water proofing membrane and do like 3 coats. Then tile, leave 1/8 or whatever your groutliine thickness is from the tile to the tub and you're good to go.

[@ekp8525]

@@kyleorr533 +1 for the window flashing method. I saw the same video and really liked that idea.

[@7628739]

I agree, this kicks ass method works the lip can use caulking at the bottom tile stops 1/8 inch or so from tub. Could you full the bottom gap before the tile goes on the wall? To add an additional layer if protection?

[@peterjg001]

Bob is 100% right, my shower pan manufacturer says to sit the board ON the lip + seal it with silicone sealant.

[@daveshafer7908]

The reason I'm subscribed to your channel is because you are speaking from experience, not some book

[@davidribeca1745]

Sal is 100 % right. Dry wall and mastic will more than likely grow mold. These jobs you are removeing the 4x4 tile from are probably 20 years old or more. The method they look to be installed with has gone through its test of time and so for the most part drywall and mastic really is not used to much anymore in a tub area or shower. Years ago when tile was set in mud did the tile guys stop short of the lip of the upturn of the tub or pan to stop this issue you seem to have the answer for?

[@StarrTile]

Sal is unequivocally incorrect. And sometimes I still do ceramic tile on tub walls and I will still use Mastic which is fine on a surround... but even if I use cement board and large-format tile and thinset, the wallboard still would sit on the lip and not the edge, it's only common sense and why somebody would do it otherwise is beyond comprehension given the 2 choices. And yes the same would apply for a floated wall on a tub or a floated wall in a shower, water will Wick a porous substance, cause damage and rot things...been there, seen it. I'm actually pretty amazed that this is even a debate

[@davidribeca1745]

@@StarrTilethese jobs that you have seen fail were they caulked correctly with a product like silcone or latex or no caulk at all. Was the mastaic at the end of its life because it was first generation mastic that they had no idea it would dry up abd loose its bond between the tile and substrate? Which caused the tile to become loose and water to migrate through the joints of the cracked grout. My father has a mastic and drywall tile job that was done in 1972 with all joints caulked with 100% silcone. The drywall is on the tub why hasn't it failed?

[@StarrTile]

@@davidribeca1745 like I said in the video you do it the way you want to it doesn't matter to me in the end but given the two choices why would you choose the one that has possible failure over the other that absolutely does not ????? It's kind of a weird thing to convince anybody of anything nowadays but you don't know what fail you have from 1972, I have taken out those bathrooms before and there is wood rot all over the place, then again each individual does things their own way and there's operator malfunction all over the planet. Planes crash, rockets and shuttles blow up, car wrecks, fingers cut off from saws, etc. We can't save the world from themselves but I use common sense & logic to show ppl easy effective ways and back it up with proof, others read books 👌

[@davidribeca1745]

@@StarrTile I have the proof a working 1972 tile job in my parents house still intact and still in use with the backer material (drywall) sitting on the tub. No books just the real thing!

[@MissTriciaMilitia]

What would you suggest to deal with a side of the shower pan where we had to chisel out the studs to accommodate the bottom lip (as is shown to your left in the shower pan at 10:40 in the video. I think we should just leave a space and the thinset will fill it in, it's only the very bottom of the tiles so it should be fine I think, but I would LOVE your opinion!

[@4u2dzirr]

I’m 20+ yr setter in Seattle... That’s the way I was taught. On top of the lip. Also too... I usually clean a tub and put couple layers of 2” blue tape on the deck, tape off the drain hole, tape couple layers of auqabar to the floor, and throw in a nice drop. Shake it out daily. You’re scaring me rubbing all that dust all over the place Is that a scratched up tub already??

[@HB-yq8gy]

It makes sense the water will run down into the lip with no water intrusion. Damn, I think in 2010 installed a 36" shower stall 3 piece tiles ceiling maybe screwed up!

[@stevebaker-iu4nh]

I think you said you prefer placing the wall board, whatever kind, slightly above the tub or shower lip. From my point of view, I think that is best as both tub/pan or isolated AND wicking cannot occur.

[@nickw.2345]

Okay this makes alot of sense, but if you are not tiling the top portion of the shower/tub unit and you want it painted and to have the finished look without the screws holding the lip to the 2x4s showing how would you suggest hiding those?

[@matthewsee3745]

I redid a bathroom once......I see the ways I messed up now. What I'm not sure about is what exactly is the process of getting a finished result? If I'm following this video correctly, the tub or shower surround lip gets screwed to the studs. The drywall or cement board gets screwed to the studs about a 1/4" above the tub lip (I love the idea of sealing the edge to prevent water from wicking up). Then add tile and and thin set. Is the bottom row of tiles just supposed to overhang the bottom of the cement board/drywall and sit on the edge of the or is the tile supposed to sit above the edge of the tub but extend past the drywall or cement board? With the difference in the thicknesses of the lip of the tub and the cement board, there will be a tiny gap at the bottom of the bottom row of tiles. Is this that way it SHOULD be? I think I need to see a diagram, but hopefully what I'm saying makes sense and somebody can explain this to me with a bit more detail. What if you are installing a tub surround as I did in my first and only bathroom remodel? The tub surround had a lip on it just like the tub does in this video, but we did not put tile over it. We went straight from drywall over the lip of the surround, and caulked it. I know this is wrong now, I did not know that then. Had we installed drywall above the lip, how do you hide the gap and make the top edge of the shower (bottom edge of drywall) look finished and pretty? Thanks for reading, I hope to get some good answers

[@TheSotexy2]

Will make sure to do this on my project next week. Question I have is, do you think set the backer board and tub after mesh taping or Kerdi sealing them together? Then do you bring the tile onto the edge and silicone underneath the bottom tile to the tub?

[@Pw6872]

But one thing not good: the 'sanding' back and forth of the grit and crap on the bath 'shoulder' is surely scratching the surface of the acrylic. Best to use wide painters' tape to protect. Just sayin'.

[@RaysVideoChannel1]

I cringed every time I heard his hand rubbing that grit. I guess it could all be polished out but still that sound. 😵‍💫

[@wonka1234]

Wont the tile at the bottom be angled if you put the board on the lip? It wont line up perfectly

[@rhondall8773]

I moved into a house that has an old bathtub.(almost 50 years old) There is no lip. There is a one piece fiberglass surround. There is mold where the surround sits on the tub. How can this be fixed without replacing the tub? It's a 59" tub in an alcove that cannot be increased in size. It seems tubs nowadays are 60". I was thinking I needed a new surround, but who knows what is behind it. Probably wallboard and mold!!!! Any ideas?

[@MrTooTechnical]

great vid. uh oh, you talking about SAL from boston again. fight fight fight.

[@StarrTile]

😂😂😂 Just straightened out mis-information...and is why I kicked in the other clips so it's just not ME doing it properly👌

[@americanegale697]

THANK YOUUUUUU, subscribed ! And it makes sense!

[@edwinvega4111]

Hello bob Im trying to gather as much info as i can before i start to work on my bathrooms. gotten several estimates to do both of my bathrooms and the least expensive one was a little over 25 grands.. not going to to happen... If i do it my self ( im an ok handy person do lots of my proyects my self) its going to be about 2,500 in materials for both bathrooms.. Ok now to my question lol.. If i understand you correctly the gap from the wall board and the tub lip is left with nothing and when you install the tile that bottom inch or so gets nothing behind it, leaving about 1/8 or so of a gap between the tile and tub? That inch or so with no support behind it, it will be ok no worries about breaking or cracking? Btw love your videos i like when people use common sense vs this is the way the book says... lol I appreciate you videos thnx for time..

[@markhuru]

Also make sure silicone is mould resistant, Lexan or thru the roof is best.