Starship Lore : Klingon D7 - Most Feared Ship of Original Series

[@dragonking322]

"The D7 While old Is the ultimate in Klingon Design. She's Fast, versatile, and always looking for a fight. Just like my wife"- General Martok ok so maybe he never actually said this but this is exactly how he'd introduce a brash young Klingon commander to an antiquated D7 as their first command.

[@oliversmith9200]

On Klingon a wife who isn't looking for a fight is cause for a guy to worry about the future of his marriage.

[@Becka_Harper]

Okay this one could get a bit...weird but bear with me. In the US Navy the Iowa class battleship had it's first hull laid down in 1940; the Missouri was built in 1944, and only decommissioned in 1999. She was almost 60 years old! Why am I talking about US battleships? The Iowa's lasted for so long because they were expensive as fuck to build, and maintain; but when you wanted to lob many tonnes of lead downrange they were just about as good as it got. The Klingons live in as was pointed out a resource starved region, and I think we can take as given that starships of any kind would be an order of magnitude more expensive to build, fuel, man, arm and maintain than any waterborne warship. Resource starved, in a cold war with a larger, more populated, wealthy, expansionist neighbour, and with most likely as many enemies as they have shared borders. To me that's why the Klingons use the same hull designs for so long; new designs cost a LOT more to prototype, test, and bring to the shipyards. Adapting existing designs might cost a lot, but nothing near the same levels. So for starships, ships designed from the ground up to take the punishment of relativistic flight in normal space, the strain of FTL under warp, and also go toe to toe with a foe it doesn't surprise me in the least that those ships last a very long time. (Also the producers of even later Trek knew that icon designs make it easier for a fandom to develop...if only CBS and their hack writers had a FUCKING brain in their heads when it came to the STD currently infecting the next generation of fans.)

[@swaghauler8334]

This logic CONTINUES in the newly built Flight III Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers. This is a hull type that was first laid down in 1988 and continued to be developed by the US Navy through what is now 4 generations (Flight I, Flight II, Flight IIa, Flight III) of modifications. The hull has been "stretched" to incorporate a helicopter hanger and the shipboard systems have been upgraded throughout the 60+ ships' 30-year service lives. With the (now unbearable) cost of the new Zumwalt Class Destroyers being so high, the Navy plans to extend the life cycles of the Burkes currently in service. This is no different than the Russian Navy which has 40 and 50 year old hulls still in service. The conclusion one can draw is that the D7 is actually following current Naval Doctrine by being produced for so long.

[@mikemalo47]

and some of the fans did try to fill in the gaps in the dark days when it was only the fans keeping trek alive , Fasa , and Jackles guide as examples.

[@ZuluLifesaBeech-]

In Army Aviation we joked that there were only to types of aircraft: experimental and obsolete. Like life, in war nothing is ever totally obsolete. The CSS Virginia had a ram on the bow which had not been seen since Roman Empire. Why use a knife in a nuke fight? Because you can stab the enemy before he can launch the nuke. Starship Troopers. quote but not word for word.

[@edwardpate6128]

@@ZuluLifesaBeech- Tech Sgt Zimm! An awesome character!

[@ZuluLifesaBeech-]

@@edwardpate6128 Thanks Ed for the info. "Come on you Apes, you want to live forever?" quote from unknown NCO in WW 1 used in Starship Troopers.

[@readhistory2023]

When you scout with battleships it's called scouting in force. It can also be called a probing attack among other things. Starfleet is known for exploring, aka scouting, with the constitution class and they're not exactly a little ship.

[@earnestbrown6524]

The proper term is Reconnaissance in Force, but I think Klingons prefer to Reconnaissance by Fire, firing at likely enemy positions, in order to cause the enemy force to reveal their location by moving or by returning fire.

[@lexington476]

Probably also they had so many hulls that they could use them as reconnaissance elements.

[@mikemalo47]

This is one of the big issues some of us old timer fans have , the limited ( due to show budgets and this goes for almost all tv sci-fi shows ) number of ship classes in the " Fleet" There are non-cannon fan produced books from the pre Next gen days filling out these gaps, at least for the federation.

[@ryateo1]

Movement to contact bitches....lol

[@TheCrackedFirebird]

Kinda like the Stiener Scout Lance joke in Battletech.

[@TYNexus0717]

"just don't hurt my family" is CBS holding you hostage!?!?

[@lowellleber1722]

nexus8462 cbs has violated canon

[@rockacraig5653]

No he's just being a fanboy.

[@reginaldtyroneshort]

It wouldn’t surprise me it’s cbs after all

[@mistreme8341]

This is why I didn’t bother to pay extra just to watch Discovery.

[@luisparga5707]

nexus8462

[@Carnyx72]

Thank you for including TAS in this. I think TAS is too often overlooked - there were some good episodes in there.

[@colonelmakin3211]

There were many good episodes in TAS it's a lot better than most give it the credit for being. I still get a kick every time I hear Shatner say or ee on in stead of orion.

[@jimjohnston5719]

Many of the scripts, such as Yesteryear or The Practical Joker, were scripts under consideration for Star Trek New Voyages, the intended rebirth of Star Trek that never quite got there. New Voyages, as a series, ended up being granted to Mr. Cawley and this awesome group of fandom production. Sadly TAS is rarely considered Cannon, despite this fact. The Stasis Weapon the Klingon's tested was in the episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles". The KBC would also feature heavily in "The Time Trap", where we see the SS Bonaventure, the first warp drive ship commissioned by Star Fleet (at least as of that time, much history was revised within Enterprise). Many of the script witers, such as David Gerrold and DC Fontana, from TOS continued to supply their talents to TAS. Walter Koenig did not sign on for TAS, so Errex (sp?) was inserted to take his place as Navigator. Sadly, we did not get a lot of character building for him, nor for LIeutenan M'ress, who was the Communications Officer when Lieutenant Uhura was not there. I believe it was TAS that also showed us our first look at a Non-Altered Orion and introduced Star Trek's version of the Kzinti.

[@sugarfrosted2005]

Honestly on average the writing on TAS was better than season 3. I can think of a lot of goofy stuff in TAS, but the only example I can think of is from the Lorelei Signal, where they had a computer that could have found the Enterprise crew they just didn't use it???

[@oliversmith9200]

@@jimjohnston5719 It feels good after reading your fulsome comments. Like I just ate a high dollar Star Trek trivia energy bar full of orion brazil nuts and activated dilithium flavor crystals.

[@danielramirez1529]

Excellent video. Thanks again and so sorry for your loss man. Cleo was with you guys a long time. Losing a family member isn’t easy but it will get better as time moves forward. You going to get another dog?

[@ricimax]

I did a report on the Klingons for my College Anthropology class. I thought I was thinking outside the box. He generously gave me a C. Anyway...while researching the history of the Klingons, I found out that they had actually been enslaved by another race for generations. They had been a rather backward people and the technology came with their oppressors. They learned to use the tech, but never really understood it. When they finally killed their oppressors, they sort of hodgepodged the tech left over. They would steel new tech when they could but they never really became a technologically advanced race. Just a race with technology.

[@rengarcia5189]

Thank you for this channel. Discovery ALMOST made me forget how much I love Star Trek and, most of all, the hardware. It's up to us, the FANS to keep Star Trek alive, if only in our hearts and to reject the horror show CBS is pushing upon us.

[@Lucofthewind]

How every noble of you! I am sure you are pleased to join the illustrious ranks of people who said the same about tng, ds9 and voyager. Good for you!

[@neganrex5693]

I feel your pain. I watched one EP of Discovery and called it quits and didn't look back.

[@neganrex5693]

@@Lucofthewind DS 9 and Voyager was on track with Star Trek but Discovery belongs in the trash can. This is what happens when colleges are cranking out idiot writers and China has ownership of Hollywood. LOL. That is why Hollywood sucks in general these day.

[@canaksu2507]

@@LucofthewindI mean come on man Discovery is shit

[@bredrick.]

And then Picard S3 wasn't abominable! Hooray!

[@carlbieler9039]

D-7’s are awesome looking ships. I have always been a fan of the dreaded D-7. D-7 says “Klingon” to me.

[@jsnwlbrn98]

Hi, I have just recently discovered your channel and I cant get enough! It's great to see all of the Star Trek universe being analyzed. I'm also very happy to see that I'm not the only person who hates Discovery. I watched 3 episodes and couldn't stomach it anymore. It doesnt feel like Star Trek....at all.

[@madmonkee6757]

There's a D7 firing photon torpedos towards its rear (its aft?) in the Motion Picture.

[@LoreReloaded]

It's a k'tinga class..but that's also why I said most

[@datadiva5409]

Yes your right it can! ,I was just about to comment on his mistake .....thank you for pointing that out .

[@Revkor]

I saw they are designed to face the enemy but the Klingons are not stupid to have no rear firing weapons. Br'el is manuverable enough to deal with that issue.

[@Sargonarhes]

Yes, it's aft is the correct term. Coddle section my aft. Where does this stuff come from?

[@jameskennedy8030]

Those were the first K'Tinga class ships.

[@rein1705]

A good reason that the D-7 and K'tinga were refitted so much and not changed would also help conceal the type of tech that the ship might field. I love the D-7 D-9 K'tinga. Also, the D-7 design was a symbol of there national pride, like the Battleship is to the Navy of the USA. It would have been a sought after posting. Also "If it ant broke, dont fix it" they just kept upgrading the systems and kept the shape of the ship that worked so well.

[@LoreReloaded]

that makes sense..

[@revolrz22]

The Battleship isn't a particular symbol of anything to the United States. Yeah, it pulled an Iowa out a few times, but the country is and has been for a very long time all about carrier battle fleets.

[@jeremy8715]

@@revolrz22 Battleships are mostly obsolete as a primary ship.

[@jefft5152]

How very Russian of them...Eh commrade? Remember the American time frame during which the Klingons were created.

[@DarinRWagner]

If this video is about the D7, why is there a K'tinga on the thumbnail? ;)

[@LoreReloaded]

This guy gets it!

[@jameslewis2635]

To me the K'tinga is a D7 refit. Like the Enterprise NCC1701A would be a Constitution refit.

[@DarinRWagner]

I consider them practically identical as well.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

NO PLEASE DON'T HURT MY FAMILY! HAHAHA! PLUS REALLY SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT THE PASSING OF YOUR TARG. deepest condolence.

[@resurrectedstarships]

Surely the d-7 hull was refit many many times. K'tinga is the TMP refit. I don't know that they would ever be referred to as D-7's after TMP but K'tinga instead. The TNG cruisers fire some kinda phaser or red disruptor from the hole in the front rather than torps. I, ofc love how FASA does this all, D7a from TOS (pretty weak), variants D7r (has a romluan plasma weapon due to the tech exchange), D7m is the Ktinga, and the D7s - finally gets cloaking device. Romulan versions are the Stormbirds, and with plasma and cloak I believe may have even been more effective warships that the Klingon counterparts. And then trek 2009 screwed up and called them Klingon Warbirds! WTF, and then Discovery messed it all up even further!!! By having a D-7 that looks NOTHING LIKE IT SHOULD!!! Which is a bigger crime than changing the appearance of the Klingons themselves (since thats been done before and might, might be explained away with genetic tailoring or something).

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

Actually the D7 Class were decommissioned in the late 2260's with the introduction of the K'Tinga Class which is actually an upgraded D7 design and was originally called the D7M Class till a Klingon warrior whose nickname was 'K'Tinga which means bringer of Destruction in Klingon' commanded the first ship of rhe D7M class to fight and defeat 3 Romulan Warbirds before he was mortally wounded in battle so the D7M Class was renamed 'K'Tinga' in his honor.

[@Todd.P]

I love the K'Tinga ship! Someone posted a video showing how there were 4 designs of the Bird of Prey, going from the B'rel to the K'Vort class in size (which looks exactly like a B'rel, but is the size of a Galaxy class starship). So, why not just build a Klingon battleship that looks exactly like a K'Tinga battlecruiser but is also the size of a Galaxy class starship? They've got the design down pat; just upscale it!

[@tonyboea]

Been in love with the D7 for over 50 years. From the moment I saw it in that first episode so long ago till today.

[@Draknfyre]

There was a story about the original D7 filming model told by one of the people who worked on TOS, who had to fly cross-country with it for some reason that I've forgotten now, but it was after the public had already seen it in the show. And instead of packing it up and having it put into cargo, he simply took it on the plane as a carry-on with him, and put it in the overhead compartment (it was three feet long.) At some point he brought it out, and it got passed around the airplane, and the passengers got to see and hold it themselves. The show was still in production at the time, and like many of the props it wasn't treated like the historical piece it would become.

[@Aravaganthus]

Why didn't they set STD 10 tears AFTER TOS (or better yet, after the Star Trek the Fast and the Furious movie)? Easier to write around established canon (not like they give a fuck), all the stuff from TOS is already introduced (so there'd be no problem with anyone having cloaks) and other than the movies (of which half of them happened over a very short timeframe and another didn't even happen) not much happened in that period. Oh, right, they want Michael Sueham, the greatest sci-fi character ever conceived by mere mortals, to dethrone the iconic characters of TOS from their place in pop-culture. Bet you a strip of latinum will see Spock milking an alien cow next season.

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

I know, right? Why do they advertise it as if they want TOS fans to love it if they're just going to shit on everything?

[@Aravaganthus]

Because they're so arrogant they can't even imagine someone not liking their "improvements". It's the same reason they dismiss all criticism as racism and misogynism, they are so blinded by their own ideology they can write no wrong. Hell, Gene Rodenberry could get as bad as them or even worse, but at least most of the people working with him didn't agree with him, contributing greatly to what made Star Trek endure as a franchise. STD is just a circlejerk of morons that hijacked a famous brand to preach their agenda.

[@gusty9053]

Wait and see TLJ then :)) or better yet don't. I saw that movie after 4 ep of STD (my absolute limit) and i think that SW fans got shafted worse. But season two could prove me wrong :) and be worse still than the first one. Joking aside STD was a bad idea from the start, it was created under some weird license that forced them to ""legally be 25 % different from TOS" so the "bold new direction, new designs for new fans" excuse goes out the window - they were just too cheap to pay for the real deal. It had a bunch of hack writers with an agenda and not much else.CBS decided to milk the name for all it was worth hence the pay wall and cbs "all access" (witch is a contradiction in itself). And to make it all worse the jackasses decided to call it "prime timeline" like nobody would notice the difference. To top it all up when people hating it started calling them out on this BS, CBS turned all "victim" and blamed the fans for "not getting it".

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@ gusty9053 So they've pretty much pulled a Marvel on this one as well. Put people with no idea about the original product but with an agenda instead in charge, let them corrupt everything the fans who loved the product and kept the business running were loving about the product, tell the fans that you don't need them and that they are racists etc anyway and that the new and better product is made for people who are woke. Then wonder why you are going to be broke very soon and discover that the people you are now catering to actually give a fuck about your product and that they've actually never bought your product or at least a product that is similar.

[@hwrdthomas]

The D7 is an iconic ship...though retired, will never be forgotten.

[@Will831100]

Sorry about your dog pal. Don't even think about the day that's one of my cats. Edit:-cloaked ship, lol. I can just picture you getting visions of it going out Oberth style and smiling.

[@kittenclaws5775]

I don't remember where I read this, but supposedly the reason for different primary/secondary hull shapes was warp geometry? Bulk forward made for a more maneuverable warp field at sub-light maneuvers, the width of that bulk and thus warp field dictating the axis a ship was able to rotate more effectively on, and Klingons chose a rear-heavy design because they're always going forward, never in reverse. Which, frankly, sounds like a silly justification but fits the design ethos well? Like, round saucers allowed good maneuvering without sacrificing acceleration, the huge Galaxy had a wide saucer allowing it to maneuver it's bulk a bit better, the ball saucers offer mobility compromises to counteract less powerful maneuvering systems, Klingons just point at their enemy and scream.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Plus a sort of 'slicing' the warp field rather than the more aerodynamic Starfleet style?

[@SVSky]

Or they don't carry as much shielding in the reactor area, so they put their crew quarters away from the engineering spaces.

[@VonArgylle]

"Klingons chose a rear-heavy design because they're always going forward" Star Trek'in across the universe. Bodly going forward 'cause we can't find reverse! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKu8iZWjmLJnq9E

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

@@VonArgylle LOL! I was gonna say that! Hilarious!

[@VonArgylle]

@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Well you know what they say, great minds thinking alike and all that.

[@6freddyb]

R.I.P. Cleo

[@defoley5]

...wow, CBS really is evil. I am so sorry.

[@DrewLSsix]

I've considered for some time now that the designation D7 is simply a Starfleet identification. Particularly given the apparent lack of contact between the Klingons and the Federation it would seem unusual that the Federation could quickly identify Klingon ships by the name the Klingons themselves would use. Also the letter d in the number 7 would certainly have to be translations of the thing on variant if that is what the Klingons actually called them while the other named classes get the full Klingon language name. If that's the case it's likely that the ship in Discovery was identified as a D7 simply because the officer estimated it to be a destroyer type ship and on some standard scale determined it to be a 7, perhaps on a one-to-ten scale that ship is in the top third of what one would consider a destroyer type ship before simply considering it to be another class all together like a battleship perhaps a B-1 I may be mistaken but I don't recall Klingons referring to the ship as a D7 themselves.

[@uni4rm]

DrewLSsix in ds9 one Klingon recalled his days as commander of a d5. Why would he call it a d5 if it was a federation designation?

[@DrewLSsix]

1SLUGGO1. Ok, I didnt recall that. Like I said its just an impression I had. Besides, we know that when it comes to throwaway dialogue startrek canon is about as solid as an exhausted Odo!

[@DrewLSsix]

1SLUGGO1. Another possibility is that D5/D7 are not ship classes like the Constitution class or Miranda class bit ship types, like the Heavy cruiser/medium cruiser classifications given to the connies and Mirandas. Heavy cruiser as a class is assigned to all the Enterprises from constitution class to Galaxy class, even though they are very different ships. So if D7 is the equivelant of heavy destroyer and D5 is say a medium destroyer the D7 in TOS may well have been the name known to the federation or their preferred designation while its class name was something else, perhaps it was also a K't'inga class but never said on screen or known to the feds? By that logic just as the term heavy cruiser was applied to ever larger and more powerful ships perhaps the D7 classification was also applied to the larger ships seen in TNG and later? With the Vor'cha class being considered a D7/heavy destroyer.

[@ericlanglois9194]

Klingons have already referred to their K'tinga as a Battlecruiser at least once, as it's a variant of the D7 it's likely they also referred to the D7 as a Battlecruiser. The Federation would not have classified it as a Destroyer since it was a match for the Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser. (Destroyer is a lesser ship than Cruiser in the naval terminology Star Trek employs). As for the number, it's likely to simply follow the same standard that real world naval powers have historically done, like the German U-boats of the second world war all being basically roman numeral classes. III-class, IV-class, V-class etc... it's just to say that it's a more advanced chassis than the D6 which was a more advanced chassis than the D5 etc... The Vor'Cha probably was originally referred to as D8 or D9 in this designation scheme before gaining a name. One theory I have is that the Klingons only started using names for their classes after learning that practice from the Federation. This theory comes about because you don't actually hear any klingon ship names in alpha canon until TNG while the oldest ships in the klingon arsenal are typically referred to only by their designations. This makes sense from a certain point too, until the TNG era the klingons were rapidly expanding and making war on all their neighbours, this would mean they'd have to innovate and develop quite quickly. It's pretty annoying trying to think up great names for your ship classes only to have the class replaced in a few years by something new, but by ST VI they were stagnating and not developing anything really new so there was no worry that a newly developed ship would become outdated.

[@rleeingram]

the universal translator was a feddy bear invention maybe that's the cause for all the confusion. and in what we hear in the shows .

[@notmegaming9038]

3:20 let me guess... the "invisibility screen" is moreso camouflage than anything else, blending in the ship with background elements that makes it still detectable albeit much harder(AKA if you look closely here you can see past it), whereas the "cloak" would perfectly replicate the area the ship is occupying as if it were empty, rendering it for all intents invisible to sensors regardless if you knew where to look

[@MrPaladino]

If you'd like to post an update, in Season 2 of Discovery, L'rell reveals the plans for a "new" D-7 that coincides with the TOS design. It's stated to be a design, not based on factionalism, but a standard for a unified Empire (suggesting that there'd be other D-7s besides the ones we saw on-screen).

[@Wearyman]

There is no Discovery series. Just like they NEVER made sequels to The Matrix. These are things we do not speak of, because they do not exist except in nightmares.

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

just like the Klingons don't talk about where they got their foreheads.

[@Becka_Harper]

Say say we fucking all!...or don't say in this case.

[@Plasmacore_V]

There is no fourth Indiana Jones film.

[@nobodyimportant2470]

Nothing worth mentioning. The real reason they made it an exclusive to their streaming site is to hide their shame. Not like they have enough shows to make it worth paying for so it is a place to bury the garbage.

[@thomaskirkness-little5809]

No Blues Brothers sequel.

[@Steve17010]

If a task force of three or four D-7s had one that had the stasis device, they would be a tough group to beat. The stasis field ship would disable their foes and the others would destroy the helpless ships.

[@scpguy1381]

2:49 but they showed cloaks in Star Trek entperise being used by the Romulans that where better than the original series version

[@CZ350tuner]

What you propose that the D7 is employed as a multipurpose hull is concurrent with the D5, D6 and D7 are employed in the Star Fleet Battles board game (and Star Fleet Command PC game version). Kind of ironic that a rebuilt D5T variant, in SFB, is also used as a supply ship carrying an attached pod, and that in ST Enterprise there is a D5 variant doing the same role as a tanker. Not the first time the writers had sourced their licenced franchises for ideas, something ST Discovery writers don't do otherwise we'd not have all the BS prime timeline vandalisation.

[@darkonturas]

According to my Coda Star Trek RPG Starships book, the D7 (commissioned 2150) has a STN-4 warp system with a standard speed of warp 5 (OCU), 6 sustainable, with a maximum of warp 7. The K't'inga-class (commissioned 2267) has a STN-5 warp system reaching warp 6 (OCU) standard, 8 sustainable, and 10 maximum.

[@Shutterbug5269]

On the narrow D-7/K'tinga class neck structure I made the suggestion that the this was an intentional weak point by the klingons to motivate their captains to keep their bow to the enemy Considering that most Klingon ships' weapons were hard wired in a forward firing mode, if a Klingon turned to flee from an enemy it would leave this weakness (baring their throat almost literally) exposed to enemy fire.

[@bsotech]

The d7 showed up in Disco several times. Once in a holo display when L'Rell was reformatting the fleet, and of course that prison ship incident, and in the battle with Section 31, at least 3 were present along with the cleave ship.

[@LoreReloaded]

Date of this was before that..i believe.

[@gregvarner9562]

When you do your little "intermissions" I think it's cool that you try to time them to where the ad always breaks into the video. Nice touch.

[@Nsan]

I'm very sorry for you loss. Great video.

[@LoreReloaded]

glad you enjoyed the video.. thanks for the well wishes..

[@chrissonofpear3657]

6:56 - a lot of publications claim that the two 'pods' under the bridge winglets also are disruptor cannons, which seems reasonable. And others list a third on top of the neck, at the back.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

S-2 Graf has also been said to a warp nacelle, rather than warp core.

[@jacenstarheart6256]

Great Video! 👍👍

[@sebwilkins]

Discoveries D7 is awful, we know that cbs can't use the ship models due to copyright.. but what they came up with was just a pile of garbage cannon wise. The designs may have fitted in circa 2100 etc but after seeing a d7 hull style ship in enterprise and then going to discovery/tos; it just becomes confusing.

[@VadulTharys]

I am always amazed at how you put up the Lore Reloaded screen at the exact moment that YT drops a commercial in.

[@essaywitty]

Are the Klingon ships in ST:TMP and beyond considered D-7s? I thought they were K't'inga class. Memory Alpha says they were the direct offshoot of the D-7s.

[@LoreReloaded]

They are K'tingas..honestly for my money d7's and ktingas are like a k'vort and b'rel ..but a lot of smarter people than me dont consider them that way

[@mhorram]

I may have misunderstood something you said about the Klingon D7 only being able to fire forward. In the first movie based on the original series, the Klingon battle-cruiser fired aft photon torpedoes at the plasma bolt (or whatever it was) fired by V'ger. I think the forward firing limitation may have only been apparent and was created by the actual fight scenes chosen for depicting the D-7 in action. Mind you, it would make sense that a warrior class might design its ships to require facing the enemy rather than cowardly showing its back.

[@Therosx]

I liked the pause effect you used.

[@LoreReloaded]

Actaully was found and added by a guy who edits for me called 'Fancy teeth' on KZbin. I liked it as well!

[@punkrockpub]

I like your analogy! However, if you're familiar with the boxart of the classic AMT Klingon Battlecruiser model kit. The ship is firing a phaser from it's starboard gunport at a Constitution Class ship. So, I don't know if the ship has to be facing its opponent in battle or not. However, the ship design was meant to be a predetor look to it. I suppose that's what Mr. Matt Jefferies had in mind when he designed it. The other ship that is rarely mentioned is the classic Romulan Bird of Prey Cruiser. Designed by Mr. Wah Ming Chang in 1965. I've seen Klingon variants of it on the Pinterest page! Kinda cool looking, in my humble opinion.

[@angusosonnell6208]

The Discovery Klingon ships (and Klingons themselves) just didn't look right. A little too alien, I suppose. Ironic that.

[@kinggoten]

I have more of an issue with the ships then the klingon's themselves change out the armor and add the dread locks and they would look close enough for me. but the ships I'm sorry there is just no explaining that if this is supposed to be part of the real time line.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Many of the ships looked like knock off Go'auld designs from Stargate...

[@absalomdraconis]

Trekyards did an assessment of some commercial renders of the Discovery "Bird of Prey", and from _different_ angles it actually looks like some bizzarro super-gothic reimagining of an _actual_ Bird of Prey. You wouldn't mistake it for the real deal, but you could buy into it being what happens if the Klingons let H. R. Giger design spaceships. And then the Discovery producers called the wrong bit the front, so it visually turned into a mess.

[@robertagu5533]

Discovery from what I've heard is trash in general with a half ass storyline. Can't use copyrighted designs.... I get that but they should've AT LEAST tried to do the Federation universes we know justice. Like come up with Klingons and D7 and proto D7/Warbird type ships that they could say was the bases that inspired the more iconic Klingons and their vessels WE all know and love

[@Argonautx66]

KlingOrcs

[@deubie0211]

What's the best target, a skinny small neck or a bullseye in the middle of a massive dish.

[@LoreReloaded]

Fair

[@jmfowler9062]

I keep having to click the bell again to get notifications. Vury annoying. Glad i caught this one. Good work

[@Starwarsgeek-98]

"Just dont hurt my family" Hahahahahaha

[@ditzydoo4378]

The D7 was the successor to the D6, not the D5. time mark 0:58

[@ML-uv4gg]

Lore's sarcasm should be made a national treasure.

[@TheKulu42]

The Soviets did the same thing with tank designs during World War II. They kept chassis and upgraded their tech. The Soviets also didn't worry about making their designs and manufacturing fancy. They made the tanks "just good enough," ruthlessly calculating how long they actually lasted once in combat. Why build anything that lasts longer than its effective lifespan.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

Dude i love your skit lol

[@brucetober5440]

SuperGamefreak18 The corrections always crack me up!

[@wolfpax22]

The D-7 has a rear-mounted photon torpedo tube they they tried to use on one of the V'ger probes in TMP. I haven't seen it used anywhere else in canon though its part of the ship's weapons setup in the Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy video games.

[@Imezeal]

Star Trek: The Motion Picture in the beginning had 3 D-7's and, were able to fire torpedoes from the aft.

[@herrderthuringe2932]

those were k'tinga class battlecruisers

[@671djteke]

They did not have D-7's they had K'tinga's Different ship with similar design. Infact according to scale K'tinga's were a little smaller than the D7

[@leaaronsanchez]

To me it seems like it would be a destroyer class, only effective as long as the enemy stays directly in front of it. But as shown on Prelude to axanar it's not very maneuverable. Which would limit its capability, that's probably why you never seen just one by itself.

[@roteba1]

"Discovery" has no respect for the continuity of any other "Trek" series, so there is little reason for anyone to have respect for "Discovery" continuity

[@captianjessie1]

Between the klingon d7/t'tangas class and the neg'vah classead lead ship in 2372 were able to take down a major sector shield sector block on ds9

[@jonathanbarker1016]

The Klingon D7 is awesome ship .I remember when Star Trek The Motion Picture was. on the big screen ,And seeing those Klingon D7 appear on the screen .Seeing them the big screen was both and little scary ,What can say I was child when the first movie came out ,And the Klingons and there ships looked very mean .But nowadays I just think cool looking ships .

[@The_Str4nger]

That where K'tinka class ships, not D7

[@sirbobbyuk]

I think there was an artist impression of the d7 bridge which had the commander up front with main view screen and two smaller screen showing system status on either side. Behind was the helm and behind that was weapons stations. It look great

[@barrybend7189]

well the discovery klingon ships look to be house specific so i think one clever Klingon engineer thouht to remove the one weak point and make a better battlecruiser .

[@resurrectedstarships]

Yes but that weak point gives the ship character. Human males also have a weak point that we tend to protect fiercely.

[@barrybend7189]

Resurrected Starships all it Lost was the command pod.

[@Predator42ID]

The weak point is obvious Baal entered their universe grabbed a klingon engineer and simply said These Klingons are easier to manipulate than my Jaffa. End maniacal laugh mwahahahahaha

[@scifinerd1911]

I haven't found it on your channel yet but do you do ship critiques from other series like the stargate series

[@TheBigExclusive]

I don't think it's really fair to say the neck of the D7 is a vulnerable spot, and imply its a poor design when You could say the exact same thing for a Constitution-class ship - "Just target the neck between the saucer and lower hull". Yet Enterprise is a proven design.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Thelondonbadger - Agreed. In the Trek universe, shields are the most important. Without shields your ship is vulnerable everywhere no matter what it looks like.

[@real_fjcalabrese]

My first model kit was an AMT Klingon Battlecruiser. It's my favorite ship in all of Trek.

[@jba2048]

Has DIS at anytime followed any continuity?

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Very loosely, with some Sarek backstory. Passing mention of battle of Donatu V. No Garth of Izar yet.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

josh Most of Discoveries continuity problems would go away if it played in the JJ timeline.

[@tonebonebgky2]

Dis? STD!

[@TheLordnib]

Isn't the Chronos 1 a D7 as well from the movie the Undiscovered Country?

[@riccardomedori4920]

Alec Niblett no, Kronos One is a K'tinga class vessel.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

It's a refit K't'Inga, yes. Somewhat improved.

[@TheLordnib]

Everything I'm finding online says that the K'tinka is a variant of a D7 class. Specifically that it's a D-7M. Wouldn't that just make a difference to owning a 1999 Mustang vs 2000 Mustang?

[@Kuriamo22]

Maybe at this point we should just pretend Discovery doesn't exist. I thought about watching but after everything you and Trekyards said I think I'll keep my sanity and pass.

[@Tallgeese3]

Good idea. Save yourself the loss of your precious time and spare your body the pain of the convulsions of dry heaves you'd get from that abomination of a show that insults everything that is Star Trek by calling itself part of that universe. When it first came out I thought it would be awesome.....and then i got a look at many of it's trailers and new it would be lower than trash.

[@dafiltafish]

Hang up your idea of what trek is supposed to be and you might find you enjoy it. It's a lot more like JJ trek than TOS, DS9, or TNG. Is it the best trek ever? no. But it's fun to watch.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@ Harrison Hedge I actually liked "Into Darkness" and "Beyond". They work as science fiction and they work as entertainment. But I don't see them as Star Trek movies. I absolutely hate, though, the first of the new movies. Because it steals lots and lots of "treky" things, even whole scenes from the old movies, while absolutely not being Star Trek. And the same is true for "Discovery". It takes a lot of things from the old shows, things the makers apparently thought mean "Star Trek", while taking away everything that actually made Star Trek or taking them into a whole new (and usually wrong) direction. Add to this all the political correctness and the apparent SJW agenda and you get a pretty good idea why I will not watch that show after having watched a couple of episodes. Hell, "The Orville" is more Star Trek in spirit than "Discovery" will ever be...

[@dafiltafish]

Furzkampfbomber I mean, you are entitled to your own opinion, but for those of us that don’t really care if it’s chocolate cake or vanilla cake and are just excited that more cake is being made, I would still recommend watching Discovery.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@ Harrison Hedge Well, since you brought up the comparison with food... have you ever took a gulp of something you've expected to be sweet or salty, but then it had a completely different taste? If so, do you remember how disgusting something you might even like under other circumstances tasted in that particular moment? And when it looks like chocolate cake and even smells like chocolate cake, but then tastes like rotten vanilla... If you like the show, good for you. But I still say that "Discovery" pretends to be Star Trek, but isn't and I hate every single moment of it, because it still uses the iconography. Apparently you are no trekkie, so this will not mean anything to you, but even worse than the new look of the klingons are their ships, for instance. For a Star Trek fan the D7 cruiser is fucking iconic and there is some massive lore behind it. In Discovery the D7 is... whatever this is supposed to be, it is not a D7. My cake is not only a vanilla cake that tries to look like the chocolate cake I actually want, but taste like shit, my cake is actively taunting me for loving my chocolate cake. And by the way, even as a average tv series that has nothing to do with anything that show sucks. If I want someone to cram his SJW agenda down my throat, I go to a university nowadays.

[@kirishima638]

Any reason why the BOP @1:52 is upside down?

[@madrabbit9007]

I don't think they modified old ships with new tech (their space frames just couldn't take that much stress for that many years) rather they built news ships as needed keeping the same basic frame and layout and adding new tech as they built new ships. Kinda like building Nimitz-class aircraft carriers for nearly 50 years and the last one having little in common with the first. Sorry about your dog. :(

[@sailingmaster]

I've always liked the D7, especially the K'Tingas from TMP. Just frickin' lovely ships.

[@M60gunner1971]

Do Klingons yearn?

[@rogerauger7766]

Star Trek: Discovery almost turned me off Star Trek. I have been a Fan since I was a Child of 5 or 6 years old. I was born in '68 and Captain Kirk was always one of my heroes. I refuse to watch this latest piece of crap.

[@jonojjt6]

You are of course entitled to your opinion... and you're wrong.

[@JJfromPhilly67]

I watched a little bit of the beginning ot Discovery & was completely turned off. I really don't like prequels. There was plenty of time between TOS & NG to have a great show with new characters without messing around with anything else.

[@icepicjoey]

Roger... same here. This prequel craze needs to stop. Ive been watching since 5yo and my father has tech manuals and blueprints galore. One off magazines with the discovery design in it as a prototype hvy cruiser. With blueprints. I read and read all the material. Jack Hills tech manual is a killer read too for newer material. STD took the prototype design ( Star Trek continues has it on display) and mutated it... like they mutated everything else trek. If there are fans that like STD more power to you... but its NOT Trek. Simple as that. Time crystals, super iron man suit that can fix any plot hole and ice cream socials... that's what when gilmore girls writers write sci fi stories.

[@CesarinPillinGaming]

@Kneon Knight Nostalgia is one hell of a drug.

[@VadulTharys]

@@CesarinPillinGaming You have to understand that TOS did not push a political agenda down your throat like STD does. It was not filled with Mary Sue characters who were shoved down your throat. Every character had serious flaws, Kirk was a notorious womanizer (and was bashed for it), Spock was conflicted, constantly fighting his "human" half. McCoy was a broken man fleeing a broken marriage. Sulu was gay - yes you could tell even then. Checkov was a kid, naïve and easily misled. Then you had Scott - contentious, argumentative, arrogant, and like McCoy a drinker. Uhura was the only bridge officer who had a solid character, moral, honest, respectable. These were done on purpose, they were critiques of the culture, the black woman was the only character who was in all ways a good person. Kirk though brave, was often foolhardy, the rest held back by their flaws and fears of how those flaws would be seen by others. This in the early 1960s, and they had the first interracial on screen kiss between Kirk and Uhura. That was a major shock, but the fans LOVED it. Again they were actually pushing for social change and a vision of a fair and equal future, but did so with out shoving it down your throat and saying if you don't agree your a horrible evil person. That is the difference, between all the earlier Treks and STD, instead of shoving issues in your face, they critiqued, and criticized the social issues by showing how it should be. That is good storytelling, something that Mark Twain was a master of, one that Roddenberry took to heart. If you show how the universe your characters live in is a good place to live with equality and inclusiveness, yet never make that the focus people will accept it. Then after people will begin to internalize it. Remember TOS was directly responsible for inspiring a whole generation of inventors and innovators. I seriously doubt any other show can claim that.

[@captainspire9094]

The D7 in discovery just looks like a more bulky Battlecruiser from Star Craft.

[@TheBigExclusive]

Why do you imply having fewer classes of ships is a bad thing? Quite the contrary, it means simplified, and easier logistics. And you can build many of them no problem with focused production lines. I don't even know how Starfleet is able to support, and provide parts for so many different classes of ships! It must be a supply and logistics NIGHTMARE for Starfleet - Like the Germans during WW2.

[@tjf7101]

Condolences on your loss. Fun review!

[@richardmcgowan1651]

Discovery really means nothing to me in terms of lore. Its so far removed despite what they say. Its another timeline to me. Not really important.

[@Idazmi7]

Same here.

[@IsaiahAmos017]

Haven’t you heard klingons shave their heads and die their skin blue and where sarons armor set in wartime

[@edwardaugustus9680]

@@IsaiahAmos017 wasn't the guy being blue just being an albino?

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Richard McGowan i haven’t watched it so far but I’m only really interested in the Terran empire bits I’ve heard about so much

[@protorhinocerator142]

Not even another timeline. If it was I might care. It's another franchise with the name Star Trek plastered on it. There are other sci-fi shows to watch. If you really need some "real" Star Trek, try The Orville. It's a lot like TNG and getting better. I'll go further. I'd easily put The Orville seasons 1 & 2 up against TNG seasons 1 & 2. TNG didn't really start getting good until around season 3. The first season was especially bad.

[@stangundam01]

what do you think of the ships the fed's, roms, & kdf used in the 23rd century according to klingon academy?

[@proxima7768]

What showed up in was in no way a D7. Some analyst in Starfeet Intel was studying scans and trying to build a 3D model after an all-night party where he was hammering back Romulan Ale in an attempt to drink a Naussican under the table.

[@Janoha17]

Season 2 revealed the actual D7s. The one that appeared in in Discovery Season 1 was the vessel of one of the Houses.

[@ithryui]

I have a question. Could the redesign be a change made after having the brief alliance with the romulans?

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

Please continue to take jabs at CBS and Discovery. They are right on the money every time. :-)

[@JuergenGDB]

This was by far my favorite Star Trek Ship

[@Archangelglenn]

I had posted another comment but the stupid autocorrect on my tablet messed it up. Anyway I am sorry for your loss. I.know what it is like to lose a cherished pet. My heart goes out to you. Just take heart that she's waiting for you on the other side. Now let me see if the autocorrect will not be dumb. I can't wait for the review of the vor'cha-class itself.

[@Thermool]

If you ever design your own class of starship, if there is already one already forgive me, Cleopatra Class sounds like a good name.

[@simonwillis1529]

Discovery Yeah no don’t count for me

[@Predator42ID]

Your turning into the Cinamesins for trek and I love it, that was just funny.

[@Dracomarine]

Its definitely an ugly ship, but that is not always a bad thing. Kinda cool how the weapons placement matches the culture.

[@resurrectedstarships]

I believe the D-7 is an elegant creature of prosperous destruction.

[@453eagle]

Much like the Nazi Tiger tank, weapons facing front as well as the strongest armor. Attack or you may not survive your retreat.

[@resurrectedstarships]

Theres really no evidence that indicates its aft weapons are any weaker than its front weapons. In Starfleet battles games yah, other than that, not really.

[@DUCKDUDE4100]

I love the whole convergent evolution of technology thing in Sci-fi, I always picked up on it in DS9 with the transporters and I love it!

[@lanceheaps581]

RIP Cleopatra.

[@JMimsey]

Hey man, thanks for what you do and I am truly sorry for your loss.

[@arklestudios]

Okay, look, I hate the re-design for the Klingon ships on Discovery too, but can we just all calm down and stop acting like it was done with the express purpose of pissing off Trekkies? It was nothing more than a creative choice by the show runners. It wasn't a good one, I've said in comments under other episodes of LR that I hate what DIS calls D7s and Birds of Prey (a fact which some of the more hardcore haters of the show love to pretend I didn't do so they can attack me based on their narrative rather than what I actually said). Especially the "Birds of Prey," what the hell. It's not even that they're different. I could live with different, so long as the different at least looked good, and while I like DIS (at least so far, Season 2 could end up disappointing me, won't know until I see it), my biggest in-show gripe (biggest out-of-show gripe? Not just being put on NetFlix worldwide. All Access is bullshit. Something else I've said before, but it bears repeating) is that the ships and make-up for the Klingons is... bad. Well put together, sure, no hate towards the people who APPLY the make-up and render the ships in the SFX computers. But the people who designed those things? Well, no, hate is too strong a word, but I am definitely NOT happy with their choices. At all. Honestly, while there are plenty of legit* criticisms to be made of DIS, some of them made by me, and a few of them I've even heard on this very show, I only wish I could see those legit criticisms as often as I see people using violent and even bigoted language, attacking people who like the show, and in some cases outright lying about the show's content to justify their outrage. I mean, I assume the people who claim that co-executive producer Nicholas Meyers has in fact worked on Star Trek before, a few times, to great acclaim, are lying when they say he "knows nothing about Star Trek." I mean, the alternative is that these guys, who ironically call themselves the "real Trekkies" (a phrase I hate, and which SF Debris brilliantly dismantled in his review of the DS9 episode "Inquisition") don't actually know anything about Trek themselves and are just trolls or worse, looking for disaffected young white men to try and recruit to some white nationalist movement. Okay, that last paragraph was a bit of a tangent, but it's something that's been bugging me for awhile, so I figured I'd just get it off my chest. * Legit of course meaning based on the actual content of the show, and not some assumptions made about it by some angry fanboy who confused his headcanon with actual canon. In addition, I don't have to agree with it for it to be legit, it just needs to make sense.

[@Predator42ID]

I actually found the Mirror universe episodes entertaining but that's it; because of my upbringing the show from the outset just feels all kinds of wrong. Also I agree with you about Trekkies I mention one thing about torpedo's on Fanfiction and a few of them unload on me like a Liberal. In short like liberals they live a double standard, they preach peace and love yet show none of it if you disagree with their ideals.

[@arklestudios]

"In short like liberals they live a double standard, they preach peace and love yet show none of it if you disagree with their ideals." You misspelled "Liberals get justifiably angry that the Right Wing seeks to rob millions of people of their basic human rights if they don't conform to narrow and arbitrary societal "norms" that were created through centuries of bloodshed and theft." Never forget, it was YOUR side that elected a racist, pro-Nazi, ignorant, con artist who beat at least one of his wives and cheated on all three of them while openly fantasizing about wanting to have sex with his own daughter and who will lie about things we have him on tape saying with all the brazenness of Shaggy in "It Wasn't Me" but without any of the charm and who managed to bankrupt a casino. Oh, and by the way, guess which political party in the U.S. has at least 4 open Nazis running for public office this year? Hint: It's not the one who talks a big game about "personal freedom" but then wants to use the full force of the state to make sure everyone peeing in the McDonalds bathroom has what fascist cocksores like you think has the "correct" genitalia.

[@Predator42ID]

Congrats, you just proved my point. good day

[@arklestudios]

That Right Wingers are horrible bigots undeserving of respect? Yes, yes I did. BTW, I just love how you don't even try to deny or make excuses for your sides support of Nazis. I guess you're finally just embracing it now huh?

[@Predator42ID]

False you proved my point in that Trekkies have enough hate to power a city, Liberal's have enough to power a state. Also your attempt's to insult me are futile and I'm not going to pull the same stuff as others do for obvious reasons. I will say this though, you can hate me all you want but in the end I will gladly offer a helping hand to whoever needs it regardless of political or religious affiliation. Thank you

[@Talondas]

It was believed that the Romulans exchanged their tech technology in the TOS for the designs of the D7 by fandom for decades. The D7 variant in TMP did have a rear-firing torpedo tube and their encounter with VGER was supposed to be on its "shakedown cruise", testing their tech. Top speed in TOS was warp 9 and would need to be adjusted to TNG scales. Good video, I'll be looking forward to more.

[@madmonkee6757]

I refuse to even consider everything after that first, abysmal Abrams movie as cannon. Everything after Nemesis sucks. (Not that Nemesis was good, but at least it was Star Trek. [Even if it was basically a mashup of Undiscovered Country with elements of Wrath of Kahn and Search for Spock.])

[@XiahouDun1225]

please more salt.

[@rueceless7580]

Well thankfully you don't decide what is and what is not "canon" since a lot of us quite enjoyed the kelvin movies.

[@jaywiegs1712]

Why does everyone hate on Nemesis, I thought that movie was good.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Jay Wiegs It has okay action scenes but the story is incredibly stupid. Pretty much like the reboot movies.

[@jamminjoe44]

Definitely a mashup of Wrath of Kahn ...

[@doctorclu]

D7 had an amazing look!

[@extra_crispy4958]

Wasn't the cloaking device called the invisibility screen in TOS?

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

The D7 was a beautiful ship...agressive stance, with bulky sections & slender & graceful curves(that head looks like Snoopy in tos). Though rather plain in tos, the dark greenish blue movie paint, used in tmp & VI, and the extra textures added really made it look great(edit: yeah okay K'tinga class & no longer D7, but maybe that's just a difference between Federation and Klingon nomenclature, the constitution class Enterprise & it's tmp refit are still considered the same vessel even though they have no parts in common/shared between them, I'd say the D7 & K'tinga are much closer to being the same...and for all intents and purposes they are) That being said, the later Klingon ships(such as the Vor'cha class) really took a lot from the D7, pretty much the same layout with edgier lines & no curves or roundness...they were aggressive looking, very Klingon, but no longer 'sexy'.

[@muninrob]

Is that Aura from Eve that you open with? Love the D7 & it's "little hammers" and "Phaser squirt"

[@mhorram]

I love the D7 (more than the Enterprise) and I love your presentation. Thanx.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail and every way possible and provided indeed, And just to let you know Discovery is not Startrek its in its own little universe of its own!...

[@spiritofthewolf15x]

Can you do a video about the Cheyenne class?

[@LoreReloaded]

definetly

[@nopenope1]

I'm very interessted in details about the joint venture of Klingons and Romulans building the D7 variants ^^

[@basacis]

The D7 and the Romulan bird of prey were always my favorites. I still have the micro machine toys from the 90's.

[@davidb4715]

Thoughts on Prelude to Axanar history and Enterprise Klingon ships?

[@Typhonis007]

Was the Star Trek Movie D-7s considered D-7s or a new class? Because they had a rear facing torpedo launcher. Also if you want non canon sources for the D-7...FASA had a Klingon ship recognition guide for TOS and Amarillo Design Bureau has a wargame style D-7 for Star Fleet Battles.

[@LoreReloaded]

new class.

[@SwankyKitteh82]

He called the D-7 bulky... That ship is sexy as hell. Very angular, very contemporary, perhaps simple even. Very telling of the Klingon Empire's "no frills" mentality with ship design.