Stay Away From Luxury Beliefs | Episode 46 | Everything is Everything

[@vinaypalsinghchandel4769]

Amit, the section where you just start on price control immediately reminded me of a beautiful quote by Jake Gyllenhall in the brilliant movie Nightcrawler - ‘The true price of any item is what somebody is willing to pay for it.’

[@sashidharl]

Amit man, I love the content you put out; I probably am within the first 50 people who watch 'Everything is Everything' once it is uploaded, but what is the update on your books? I've been waiting for it for years now.

[@amitvarma]

If you're referring to the Seen/Unseen books, entirely fault, I've been dawdling.

[@aditimascarenhas5608]

Nomsta and Vaishnav are doing a fabulous job with the production.

[@amitvarma]

Indeed, Nomsita and Vaishnav are amazing!

[@knittins99]

Ajay, you remind me so much of one of the smartest people I've had the good fortune of meeting. Prof. Sebastian Morris, whose economics class was dreaded, and whose philosophy course was always fully subscribed at IIMA.

[@cyberrecluse7024]

Lovely episode Amit and Ajay! Really opened my eyes to so many of my own frailties.

[@Virangshah99]

I love your and Ajay Shah’s YT videos. Great ones. Please stop chair wala link joke.

[@varunagg2023]

Isn't Pro business crony capitalism also a function of extreme wealth concentration in society? When a handful of businesses/promoters control 20/30% of gdp, their access to power is immense. Poverty alleviation is the key but so is cultivating greater disconnect between wealth and access to power. The issue of wealth Inequality cannot be ignored without this issue being addressed.

[@amitvarma]

This is why we keep stressting that pro-business and pro-markets are opposite terms. Cronyism is a huge problem, and at the core of it is the coercive power of the state. To imagine that the state is the solution, and not the problem itself, is also a luxury belief of sorts.

[@Virangshah99]

A reasonably well functioning state is not a problem. E.g., Scandinavia, The US maybe such states

[@karthigeyankalyan242]

@@amitvarmaRuchir Sharmas recent book ‘What went wrong with Capitalism’ talks about this too. Pro business is not pro capitalism. The latter involves creative destruction at every level.

[@prembagui7104]

Like you I also think, the same but there is a contradiction in my thinking I am unable to solve may be you might be able to help me. disclaimer I currently don't live in India but also don't live in a developed country, Why are there Monopolies only in sectors where government sell licenses and have highest regulation, Like Power, Port and Telecom. Whereas in sectors like Paints there are always multiple companies entering and exiting, or in region where there is monopoly the sector is unorganized. I agree with your thinking, but I have a contradiction in my own thinking that I can't resolve. I don't live in India, but I don't live in a developed country either. I wonder why monopolies exist only in sectors where the government sells licenses and has the highest regulation, such as power, ports, and telecommunications. In sectors like paints, there are always multiple companies entering and exiting, and in regions where there is a monopoly, the sector is unorganized.

[@vikramrghanekar]

Very interesting conversation. The most difficult thing to do is saying "I don't know enough about this matter, so I do not have an opinion." As far inequality goes, it has always existed and always will. As you rightly said the priority is to uplift people to a certain standard of living. It is important have a clear path marked out, which is easily accessible for a poor person to uplift himself/herself out of poverty. That means availability of quality education, nutrition and healthcare at practically no cost. Unless these conditions are created and maintained, a poor person can only see the display of wealth without any hope of being ever part of it creating resentment. If theres is clear and accessible path out of poverty, the same Inequality can create aspiration.

[@jawaharsolai4303]

Interesting podcast! I happened to watch the episode only now & the idea of staying away from luxury beliefs totally makes sense. Specifically on the question on poverty vs inequality, in my view, say from India’s point of view removing poverty is obviously is the priority no 1 for the next couple of decades and when try to think about how to go about eliminating the poverty, one of the areas that needs fix is inequality. Country like India cannot afford blatant inequality as that will trigger social unrest which doesn’t help anyone. So it is important as we look at growth as the path to eliminating poverty, we need to look at models that enables workers to get a part of company stocks like senior management.

[@soumyasarkar4100]

Thanks Amit for this podcast , much appreciated for the effort put into this

[@SuchetKumar02]

Thank you so much for this eye-opening conversation!

[@shreyasaadityaks2225]

Hey, Amit and Ajay! Just a bunch of thoughts.... I wanted to know your opinion on how much do you think individuals action from "free will", societal priveleges and true luck/chance contribute individually to wealth generation? I understand for every individual it might be different percentages of the above but is there a overall framework to understand generally what might be each's contribution. Dont you think in current scenario across the world, even in a relatively free market economy, disruption happens through people with elite backgrounds in terms of wealth and/or knowledge (not in a critical sense but as an observation)? How can these elite communities become more diverse in its members naturally and not through a coerced sense? I think any society at any point of time will never have equality and there will be elites but how can this be as diverse as possible with contridicting views working in their self interests to improve overall competition and at the same time represent the interests of their groups. Also wanted to know your take on diversity and inclusivity, can markets be coerced into preferring it? Though it is the right thing to do! How can we naturally incentivise diversity and inclusion? Also In Service Of The Republic is my no1 book recommendation to anyone I meet... :)

[@kamitaditya]

Amit and Ajay, thank you for this conversation. How would you view “Degrowth” and similar concepts for developed western societies who don’t have to deal with poverty? (unlike India, where you believe growth is essential)

[@ajayshah5705]

I think that social stress goes up when growth is weak. It is in the nature of human society to get growth. There will always be saving and there will always be technical change. This will be greater than population decline. The natural state is growth.

[@ShreyasRamesh28]

Great show and reccomendations! Idk if it is possible but, would love to have Vivek Kaul to make a comeback in the Amit Varma Universe!

[@TravelListenEat]

I’ve only watched 2-3 podcasts of this channel yet, as I just recently found you guys. I was worried that even though you both have wisdom that I could really use, but are you both right wing supporters that are using partial view on things to shit on the left? I still continued to tune in as I really like the knowledge I gain by listening to you guys. After this episode, I’m glad that my views still align with you and I actually ended up understanding socialism much better (I never knew what it was, only knew that the right hates it and left loves it). I’ll still consider myself left and not support socialism. Glad to know that you guys also do not like the lack of freedom (exactly what I think of when I say I’m left). Thank you for educating the masses and expanding my view of the world. You’re the only people who I’d allow to challenge my beliefs from the left and leave me with a clearer view of politics, economics and society in general. Next thing for me is to read the communist manifesto 😉

[@ajayshah5705]

The words "left" and "right" have gotten all muddied. "Left" often means : The people who want to use state power to control the economy, to run a central planning system, to control the resource allocation, to nurture class warfare, to reduce people to their essential identity, to do new kinds of social control with monitoring and policing through social media, and to do redistribution. "Right" often means: The people who want to use state power to control your behaviour, your culture, your values, to reduce people to their essential identity, to push family values, religion, racism, majoritarianism, nationalism, to do the old kinds of social control through social policing and monitoring. Both sides are hostile to the projects of freedom, prosperity, liberalism, mass flourishing. Both sides want to control you.

[@Retrosputter]

21:16 the impression was on point

[@avnishdhaulta9271]

Galaxy 500 is lit. Shoegaze is underrated af.

[@Jacob-pp8yk]

Hi Amit and Ajay, thanks for a great show. Have been a a regular listener.My largely uneducated opinion is that I agree with your luxury beliefs on the left side of the spectrum. But I think in general your opinions about socially unregulated sex, drugs and betting is also probably a luxury belief which mainly affects the poor and uneducated. And i think, Rob Henderson also agrees with me.

[@gnilambar]

The point is all these things will happen even if they are illegal, through mafias. Second agents of the state will just take bribes to let you do what you want. The real solutions lie elsewhere.

[@HarshSharma0210]

@Ajay, on the point of collaborating with the strongman. What option do business leaders have once the strongman is in power? After all, masses voted strongman to power. They have to collaborate, though unwillingly, else risk themselves become the target of state coercion. And strongman has no personal benefit to fix rule of law!

[@himanshuj.]

It was quite an engaging conversation. It would be great to watch a conversation purely around music.

[@yj9032]

अमितजी, में तो हमेशा आपकी तारीफ करता रहता हूं कमेंट्स सेक्शन में। मैं हमेशा आप और अजय सर की वह-वह करता हूं। लेकिन इस विषय पर में निराश हो गया। जिसको आप luxury beliefs कहते हैं, उन्ही विचारों ने भारत को बचाया। अगर समाजवाद न होता, आज हमारी अवस्था पाकिस्तान की तरह होती। जब भारत और पाकिस्तान आज़ाद हुए तब हमारी अर्थ व्यवस्था पर जमींदारों की मज़बूत पकड़ थी। उन्होंने ही भारत के विकास को रोका। अंग्रेज से बढ़कर इन जमींदारों ने ही भारत को गरीब बनाया। आजादी के बाद, कई सारे प्रदेश सरकारों ने भूमि सुधार का कानून बनाया और उससे जमींदारों की दबदबा को खत्म किया। तभी हम एक मुक्त बाज़ार की स्थापना कर पाए। पाकिस्तान में यह सब कुछ नहीं किया। उन्होंने अमेरिका की गुलामी स्वीकार कर ली और पूंजीवाद को अपनाया। और हम आज उसका नतीजा देख सकते हैं। नमस्ते

[@jeevanjyoti461]

But once the clock is reset, we should be back to true liberty for the people. We kept this socialism alive way to long that necessary, it eventually create a new class of elites, and those don't want to let go of there power, as happened in Soviet union. Revolution should happen once like in French revolution but if every day is revolution than it's anarchy not Socialism.

[@VanithaJDevi]

Amit, I hear you repeatedly saying "India is a poor country" but in contrast I see you scoop on the elite communities of India, you talk about economics that establish the dynamics of Indian economics, you are in touch with the creamy layer people of India...what am I missing here. All that we enjoy today is a result of India being a resourceful country. What am I missing here?

[@vasdgod]

The interactions among the medival culture following pastists .

[@kakaderaunak]

Strong candidate for a super meme 5:36 😂

[@simransaini9801]

Waiting for the shallow cover! 🎶

[@amitvarma]

Someone convince Ajay!

[@abihazaidi8779]

Where are they getting their shirts!

[@rishabhmishra9230]

Malibu Love Nest is my favourite song by Luna.. also, check out Slowdive, Beach House, Mild Orange, Pale Saints

[@amitvarma]

Yeah, Alison from Slowdive's Souvlaki has been my earworm for the last week!

[@ivanlobo397]

Nice discussion on history of ideas.

[@user-ng5xr2ju2z]

Honestly a lot of the references given by Amit and Ajay are usually quite Western for me, I'm not aware of them most of the times. But must say I really enjoy this show, I randomly saw an episode on the Papers that changed the world, and realised that I landed on gold. Good show guys, keep going. Thoda Western ki jagah Indian references dedo pls.

[@ajayshah5705]

Thank you for your interest. Once you have seen a few episodes, you would see that we're basically curious about the world and we live in India. Are the ideas and recommendations things that stir your mind? :-) That's what we're trying to do.

[@user-ng5xr2ju2z]

​@@ajayshah5705 Yes Sir, its a fantastic show, so many ideas for stimulation. Just sometimes the relatability is less but thats ok. Btw, Sir I have read your book "In service of the republic", at first I didn't realize you were THAT Ajay Shah xD.

[@ajayshah5705]

@@user-ng5xr2ju2z :) It's great that you have read the book. In this show you will see many connections into those ideas. (And, the end notes of the book have a lot of the modern understanding-India-literature). In EiE we are trying to be more accessible than the book. Please see www.mayin.org/ajayshah also.

[@user-ng5xr2ju2z]

​@@ajayshah5705 Sure Sir. Small Request- I also want to learn about the professional economist side of you, if you could do some episodes where you go in detail about your work on the Indian Economy, policy issues, how you handled various govt/policy related assignments(maybe some fun stories about that)-proper hardcore economics basically. If you could do such episodes once in a while, would be terrific. Thank You

[@ajayshah5705]

@@user-ng5xr2ju2z okay, thinking. (There are quite a few hardcore economics episodes....)

[@AftabAlam-hy2ny]

I couldn’t understand why growth can't happen while keeping inequality muted. In many societies, including ours, a significant portion of growth stems from crony capitalism, or at least government complicity with the moneyed class. I am not advocating for perfect equality, but I am definitely arguing against extreme galloping inequality. You should also not discount the effect of relative poverty (inequality), as it cultivates mistrust in society. The 'Adanification' of society is both economically and morally bad. Extreme inequality not only diminishes the beauty of society but also fosters a master-slave configuration, perpetuating societal divisions. A healthy society is one where millionaires abound and not where few billionaires take advantage of the system & mock others. How can a nation idolize or even tolerate an Adani!

[@amitvarma]

As we explained in the episode, poverty and inequality will inevitably go in opposite directions when growth happens in a country like India. So you have to choose which you want to tackle. In India, our moral imperative is to reduce poverty.

[@AftabAlam-hy2ny]

@@amitvarma Some countries have achieved economic growth with relatively low levels of inequality. Examples include the Nordic countries, where strong social policies and labor market regulations help ensure that growth benefits a broad segment of society. Investments in human capital - education, skills training, and healthcare - can promote more inclusive growth. When a broader base of the population has access to these resources, it can participate more fully in the economy, reducing inequality. In summary, while economic growth comes with a risk of increasing inequality, it is not an inevitable outcome. It may be possible to achieve economic growth that benefits a wider range of the population through right policy intervention or at least by avoiding crony capitalism. I am not batting for perfect equality but only for a tolerable inequality.

[@amitvarma]

​@@AftabAlam-hy2ny Check out Johan Norberg's writing and videos and on the Nordic countries.

[@bhargavg9404]

Hi @amit great video! Can you link some papers of studies that prove that wealth and prosperity is not a zero-sum game, i believe in this but my friend doesn't so i want to show some resources.

[@anshul_eie]

For a while is a phrase whose length can’t be measured. At least by the person who’s waiting. ~ Haruki Murakami

[@varadmurtipatil6476]

Isnt "woke" or "Western" sustainability/climate change intervention aslo luxry belief?

[@ajayshah5705]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIG8aZycd650lbcsi=EDzekXkZWTvDq8h2

[@AftabAlam-hy2ny]

Amit, Would you consider bringing Prabhat Patnaik on your show one day please. I see all your points in the perspective you outline but a contrarian thought does exist. Did you listen to the recent talk of Prabhat Patnaik where he says that present Indian politics was in essence fascism but neoliberals were refusing to call this so because it was their own creation on purpose. The capitalists wanted to enervate the economic have-nots class which was rising against it with force. The capitalists/corporates created Hindutva hoodlums and Hindutva politics so that energy of economic have-nots is dissipated in fighting with Hindutva and the capitalists continue without being challenged.

[@rushabhsagara8766]

Amit, I know you didn't know this, but your parents also kept a 2nd name of yours secret from you. Today I will reveal that to you. It was "EYE-OPENER"!

[@amitvarma]

Haha, thank you!

[@rishavprashar2609]

The great depression of 1929 led to the downfall of capitalism and rise of socialism, and this attracted Indian old timers towards the latter as it showed remarkable progress in soviet countries. However, India took to "democratic" socialism not socialism per se. People mistake it for Marx's Socialism, na not the case though :) u guys are 🤗

[@vishvendrasingh5780]

Finally!

[@sagar696]

Do luxury beliefs come from malice or ignorance or both?

[@oflavia2910]

I wonder whether an ism of any sort is highly dependant on who's running it. For eg where is pure capitalism in play? Secondly, having robust minimalist state intervention and liberty on all else, is liberalism, then what level of people maturity needed?

[@therelaxlead676]

34:44

[@nitinnair7918]

Link to the Marxist checklist?

[@ajayshah5705]

www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm See the 10 points there

[@braineaterzombie3981]

Hey but i was thinking wealth distribution via inheritance is not that bad of a idea. Suppose if 1 farmer has 10,000 goats instead of 1 , in that case distribution might make sense. In an ideal world , billionaires should not exist since they should be paying enormous amounts of taxes but these people always find a way of legal loophole in the system to avoid taxes.That's why i believe that inheritance tax should exist but only at 0.001% richest population (for example people having more than 100 crore in wealth)and tax rate could be upto max of 30%. In this way we aren't completely stripping away everything from a child while maintaining equality.

[@ajayshah5705]

www.mayin.org/ajayshah/MEDIA/2024/inheritance_wealth_tax.html

[@PrasannaShroti]

While this is indeed a great episode and it may sound heretical, I wonder if "consent" or "freedom" are also such a set of luxury beliefs? One could argue with some merit that an average person in China has way less of both consent and freedom than someone in India, but they enjoy perhaps a better day to day quality of life.

[@hrsh3329]

❤

[@davidjohntinkering]

Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte ?

[@amitabhjha5136]

Mr shah can zoning laws like residential area and agricultural, industrial land be thought of like luxury beliefs? Height restrictions. Is urban planning not a top down utopian belief.

[@ajayshah5705]

The recipe is. Where is the market failure? Using the coercive power of the state in certain ways may be useful when faced with market failure. Otherwise, freedom (absence of state) is the best. There is a role for (correctly done) town planning.

[@amitvarma]

Yes, restricting FSI and asking for the abolition of slums is a convenient luxury belief when you already live the good life in a city.

[@postyanka]

Can inequality be seen as a source of coercion through the concentration of influence? It is then not about wealth per se, an individual or family can have enough to live comfortably, but about the larger structures of choice that get controlled by a small group of people or interests. I can understand Amit's frustrations with dinner party elitism, or ngo pontificating, and that to start with atleast poverty and inequity go in opposite directions as the poor become better off and the rich get richer in a growth driven paradigm, but it is also elitism to accept the worsening of inequality as collateral damage for improving poverty or growth. How is coercion not made worse by increasing inequity, in the real world?

[@awenindo]

Forgive my armchair opinion, I think maybe that regulating competition out is the worst form of price control; e.g. liqour licenses in Karnataka.

[@amitvarma]

Yes, it's horrible.

[@varadmurtipatil6476]

Alternative title for the video " elitism of well-off"

[@hrsh3329]

.

[@veere27]

Why isn't Secularlism aslo a luxury belief ?

[@jeevanjyoti461]

Religion must be kept saparate because it inharantly compete for state power and enslaved people mentally

[@sohamdas]

I think there is a lot of merit to not be the first listener of your videos. I used to watch your videos within a day of it going public, but in the process lost out on the comments/conversations that keep emerging over time in your comments section. Almost by chance, I am revisiting this old episode, and discovering a lot of dissenting voice in the comments. Views, well thought or poorly ideated, either way it is still a small window into the minds of those who I would otherwise disagree with.

[@twenty-twenty]

The past few years that propagated these ideas of luxury beliefs was caused by a generalized conviction that someone else is doing the thinking and that individuals don’t need to think deeper about not just themselves but of those around them. Which allows them to build up hollow religion-powered moralistic benchmarks through which they judge everyone else. If anything, what we need is degrowth of faux pride. OMG you guys stop making me want to rant.

[@kushaagrasharma5508]

As a libertarian socialist, I reject the notion that socialism is inherently tied to state coercion and ownership. In fact, libertarian socialism advocates for a decentralised, cooperative society where the means of production are democratically owned and controlled by the workers themselves, rather than being concentrated in the hands of the state. Instead, decision-making power would be more evenly distributed among workers and citizens. In fact, a true libertarian society would aim to eliminate coercive systems like the capitalist model of labour. The value of a product, the profit of a product, is a surplus value generated by the labor of the workers, and it is consumed unethically by the capitalist. The worker in this system doesn't consume their own labor, the capitalist class consumes the workers' labor. Therefore the worker cannot consume the full value of the product. The worker cannot therefore self-consume under capitalism which is what makes the capitalist system morally unjustifiable

[@kushaagrasharma5508]

@RDesai_indiancapitalist The fundamental point of socialism is not that "no-one owns property," in the capitalist sense, and more that the means of production - how we generate wealth - is collectively owned, and not privately owned. A good example is something like a worker co-op company: the workers are the shareholders, there is no boss, and that would be the model of all businesses. And I wouldn't consider that individualist. Individualist capitalism would be every farmer having their own separate little plot of land on their own and competing with each other. As for the question of whether or not a lone agent can open up their own enterprise, the question is whether or not that enterprise would be exploitative. The primary goal of socialism is to abolish exploitation (surplus value extraction), so if the enterprise would be exploitative then it should be prevented.

[@jeevanjyoti461]

There will be no Bill gates or Steve jobs in your Ideal society, hence No windows or Smartphone. In short, there will be no new innovation. Collective ownership has failed multiple times with a huge cost of human lives. For more, read the book 'Why Nations fail', in it the author explained in detail why the ideal society your imagination has failed throughout human history.

[@andrewdavid9051]

Another great modern shoegaze album Title Fight - Hyperview.

[@amitvarma]

Thanks, listening now.