How Elites Hurt the Poor With Terrible Ideas - Rob Henderson

[@triggerpod]

Join the exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals to hear *Rob* answer audience questions triggernometry.locals.com/

[@keepcreationprocess]

CCCOOOOllllll , someone who knows about the topic, about science about the reality....

[@chrishoff402]

More false beliefs the upper class oppress the poor with. Man made climate change The Great Reset Electric Vehicles replacing ICEVs Gender is a social construct Feminist Patriarchy Theory Orange Man Bad Russia bad

[@64standardtrickyness]

@Triggernometry On Rob's comment in a lot of societies marriage restricted womans ability to sleep around but not the mans. Look at how many kings in the bible had multiple wives. Marriage historically was not the same as marriage today.

[@VesperAegis]

Rob K Henderson would almost certainly have more potential if he had a slightly more open mind and listened carefully to alternative points of view. As it stands, it's not a good look when he blocks people that respectfully disagree with him. One wonders how he opined so much on anti-fragility only to reactively and emotionally respond to differing ideas. Frankly I'd probably have been content to ignore the guy, but it's not helpful to our dialectic when inquiry-driven human beings can't communicate with each other thoughtfully.

[@GregFessia]

Baizuo (pronounced "bye-tswaw) is a Chinese epithet meaning white leftist, naive western elitist snobbish so-called educated person who advocates for peace and equality only to satisfy their own sanctimonious and hypocritical feelings of moral superiority. A baizuo only cares about topics such as immigration, minorities, LGBT and the environment while being obsessed with political correctness to the extent that they import backwards Islamic values for the sake of multiculturalism. The Chinese see the baizuo as ignorant and arrogant westerners who pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours. They believe in the welfare state that only benefits the idle and free riders.

[@chuckdavis572]

Rob's path reads almost exactly like mine and describes my thinking as well. 7 different families/foster homes, severe abuse, poverty. Then got in to college and after years of hard work now living an affluent life surrounded by liberals who have never struggled - but want to dictate to those who have.

[@Dancestar1981]

Fk elites try being inter generationally poor, Neurodiverse a woman a white in a woke society

[@paulrevere2379]

@@SeattleMartin We have a name for those kind: Rockefeller Republicans and many if not most are actually RINOs who have a skewed party loyalty, but no loyalty to conservative principles or moral values. If you note a lot of hypocrisy among those types then my point is reinforced.

[@hayleylongster4698]

@@SeattleMartin You're 60, Martin. Now think about people in their 30s and 40s.

[@tablescissors]

Same. And furthermore they have barely interacted with other races, let alone been the minority themselves in any situation. Yet feel quite confident in dictating to others, in a condescending tone, how everyone else should act and feel - including other races.

[@tablescissors]

@@SeattleMartin Growing up, I met MANY Republicans and did not understand them. However, it's a fallicy that they didn't work hard -- they did come from money, and their parents also worked hard, they were held to a higher standard and top grades were demanded of them -- which they earned. Intellectually I admired them, but was nowhere near as driven (though we were in similar advanced classes). I wasn't driven because I grew up poor and we still weren't truly financially stable, so I didn't believe college was really in the picture for me. I was raised Democrat and didn't really question that, but I was also raised with values, although true abuse took place by one parent. We survived. If you are being constantly abused and fighting for your lives...THAT becomes your focus. I went to a more humble school after we moved. My classmates barely cared about voting, we never said the pledge of allegiance, but if they did vote...it was Democrat. My family was dirt poor again. The technological revolution wizzed by us. It affected us tremendously, none the less. Not one college visited our school except for Heald (and they just wanted our money). And my life stayed that way. I worked HARD (and was resented for it). I tried to play hard (with nerds & geeks). I was treated like garbage by too many lazy, whiney, entitled coworkers. Including bosses. I watched a lot of sexism & harassment. Brazen drug abuse. Etc. Gee, they were all liberals. As it turns out. I went to Heald. Waste of time. A lot has changed since then. I've reflected a great deal and healed. Thanks, in good part, to educational KZbin videos. My family is Republican now. And we are not alone. Many are changing. Voices have been ignored for too long and your stereotypes aren't going to keep holding up...you're losing us and STILL lecturing. I miss nothing. Although at first it did feel like sleeping with the enemy. lol.

[@pollutingpenguin2146]

Same thing happened with covid - it was the upper middle class and upper class who wanted lockdowns to ‘protect’ the old and poor, but those they claimed to wanted to protect were literally the ones who got hit the hardest with covid and the side effects of lockdown as they all had jobs where they have to physically go to work. The whole thing is just insane.

[@grannyannie2948]

Absolutely. And in my country it was the people who worked throughout the pandemic who were the first to be thrown under the bus by mandates and lost their jobs.

[@michaelcrump6192]

Spot On !!!!!!

[@madguruJ]

It was always selfish virtue signalling, they really don’t care about lower class people, they might feel shame, which they overcompensate for

[@StevieChilds]

Right? I love how they used protecting the elderly and vulnerable to lock everything down, yet they do squat about medicaid and nursing home standards aren't enforced for crap. We really just can't take these people seriously.

[@tomcolton5662]

And nothing changed for working classes and squeezed middle except higher prices. Covid was a scam.

[@sperrotta91]

I love the term 'luxury beliefs'. It absolutely nails what this is all about.

[@scipioafricanus4328]

As Victor Davis Hanson says…’they never have to face the consequences of their own ideology’ . They are against border walls but live in gated communities….they are against guns and soft on crime but but have professional security.

[@EssensOrAccidens]

Thomas Sowell makes the same point regularly.

[@skylinefever]

I don't trust anyone who will not be the change they wish to see in the world.

[@adrianalexandrov7730]

@@EssensOrAccidens Add Milton Friedman. He was talking about politicians and "nomenklatura", but the idea still applies

[@blast_processing6577]

​@@adrianalexandrov7730 : Milton Friedman also repeatedly stated his economic designs required a form of UBI -- "negative tax income" -- and yet most of his proponents ignore this while adopting the rest of his ideology, never having to face consequences of doing so.

[@adrianalexandrov7730]

@@blast_processing6577 I think that Friedman was clear and funny, edgy in explaining rest of his ideology, while his reasons for advocating for Negative Income Tax were explained in more serious tone which is a bit harder to understand for a regular person. That might be the reason. Plus any politician who's free economy extremist would be afraid to agree with "commies" on UBI for political reasons.

[@TMeyer-ge5pj]

This "luxury beliefs" thing hit me when I started teaching( I've now quit the profession 😂). It's all nice and good to believe that no kids should have consequences anymore when you aren't the person actually at the school. All these people would quickly change their ideals if they were being stabbed, spit on, hit, stalked, cussed out, etc. every day...

[@nicolesalter2726]

What a wonderful and needed conversation. I used to bristle when friends who grew up in two parent homes spilled their plans to "do it on their own because who needs a man". Absurd luxury of those who inflate their abilities and try progressive experiments on unsuspecting children.

[@chrishoff402]

A lot of it had to do with the introduction of The Pill and the legalization of birth control in general, but yeah, family breakdown has been the worst.

[@harrymills2770]

@@chrishoff402 The effects were just as toxic on young men, in different ways. Make things too easy on us, and we won't change. We won't increase our value to society (the real solution to the world's ills), if we don't have to. We can be content doing sports and outdoor rec or video games into our 30s, without ever really buckling down and building a practical skill set. We all think we're The Last Starfighter, just waiting to be discovered for our preternatural skill with a PS3.

[@chrishoff402]

@@harrymills2770 I disagree, most of the behavior changes you are seeing in young men is the consequence of toxic feminism. Young boys are literally being indoctrinated starting in kindergarten that they were born 'the bad gender', the schools literally have uniformed police come in and tell them that, and every day the seeposters in their schools of transitioned boys with slogans like 'he deserves respect' or 'he deserves to be loved' while heterosexual boys are addressed by posters directly modeled on the 'Achtung Juden' poster from Nazi Germany with the accusatory 'Only YOU can prevent domestic violence' Boys know for a fact they are marked down an entire grade by female teachers and marked equally with girls by male teachers or test results where the teacher cannot identify the student or the students gender. The state encourages, enables and financially incentivises the divorce rape of young men . Over 90% of all prison inmates are young men raised in fatherless homes. Feminist patriarchy theory is exactly modeled on 'The World Wide Jewish Conspiracy', with man replacing Jew and woman replacing feminist being the only real difference.

[@jamescollins3647]

@@harrymills2770 That is a lot of young men but not all. The ones who are not like that will dominate your life. Get used to that idea.

[@tablescissors]

@@jamescollins3647 The tech and movie industry has disproven your statement, although it should be that way.

[@alexdawson]

'Luxury beliefs' basically explains every Guardian opinion piece ever written...

[@Benboy1980]

Makes me think of James O’Brien

[@stephenholmes1036]

Ha ha ha ha correct, Grauniad to a tee, Polly Toynbee, Jon Harris, Owen Jones etc etc and Mr O'Brian oh yes patronising beyond belief

[@DrinkYourNailPolish]

This conversation makes me think of what is going on in the beauty community. Those who have money demand for products that are "socially conscious" "vegan" and "cruelty free" meanwhile the single mom who is trying to make ends meet and just wants to look presentable at the office isn't worrying abt that. She just wants the best quality for the lowest price.

[@somedandy7694]

Reminds me of Thomas Sowell's book The Vision of the Anointed, and its discussion of the belief among the Intelligentsia that their ideas are superior, this they are closed to criticism while their policies create suffering in the very groups they claim to advocate for.

[@martindenham2207]

Spot on. I've seen a KZbin video with him explaining this (I think it's a reading from that book).

[@mht5875]

Leftwing Infallibility

[@LucielStarz123]

Luxury belief makes it sounds too nice “VANITY MORALS”‘s where it at.

[@serpentines6356]

"Vanity Morals". Yep. Like it. Also, we are in, Narcissist Overwhelm.

[@teledoink]

As a student at San Francisco State I was informed that I was a conservative for being heterosexual and desiring to eventually get married and have a family. I was informed that these were Christian conservative desires (not totally normal biological functions, actually.) And I grew to hate myself for having been so indoctrinated by my horrible STABLE AND LOVING FAMILY into being “dependent” on heteronormative patriarchal society. And god forbid I work for a living and pay rent to the man like a cog in the corporate culture. These were really terrible messages to put into the head of a working class student who needed to work for a living and didn’t have a trust fund. I really had to undo a lot of damage from those years in college. Now I’m in my 50s and still coming to terms with the fact that I kind of ruined my life, never having the family I desired, always being rebellious as those jobs I had to have. And for what? To impress a bunch of people who either had the luxury of not having to work for a living, or who went ahead and had the families they claimed were so provincial

[@Tawny593]

Interesting take on the subject.

[@stevenlafleur8474]

Wasn’t a “take on the subject “! It was lived experience not an essay.

[@teledoink]

@@stevenlafleur8474 Exactly. And what’s cool is that all of these same people that were making me feel like there was something deeply wrong with me for wanting to get married and have a family… well they all got married and hired surrogates to give them families. That’s when it hit me that they never actually believed this stuff. They simply wanted to let everyone know that they weren’t going to be happy with regular folk going about their business. Once they got there’s they stopped and moved on to destroying other peoples lives.

[@TheRisky9]

It goes to show that "Wokeness" is a very poor substitute for genuine compassion. I see a lot of this in the whole gay pride month. What even is "gay pride." I'm bisexual and I can count on one hand how many people know that in real life. It's such a stupid thing to celebrate. The original gay marches were so people could live their private lives without it disrupting their livelihood. Being gay shouldn't play a role where it shouldn't play a role, like in my ability to perform duties as a professional. Now, it's just about a company being allowed to earn extra profits by putting a rainbow on their package.

[@jimbo9305]

A lot of the ideals of the left have been commercialized. It's not about being free of tyranny. It's about signaling to your customers that you share the same beliefs. It's the same as when the right-wing politicians talk about religion in their election campaign. "Elect me. I think like you do!"

[@kimjin-hyub3413]

It,s a ideology. It,s a cult

[@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293]

This is such a great comment section, I've been so rewarded by choosing to scroll down. I love what you wrote, you're spot on.

[@davidfogarty2220]

You've pretty much summed up the sheer cynicism of 'Pride Month'. I was walking down Tottenham Court Road the other day and noticed every shopfront was full of 'rainbow stuff', including Paperchase with rainbow coloured pencil cases in its front window.

[@Dancestar1981]

And women and children’s rights are being erased by T

[@SphereMusicCafe]

I lived with an upperclass roommate who didn’t believe in holidays & was “A Minimalist” who owned few objects and wanted the house to be empty and free of patterns and colors. She had a (fake) “breakdown” because between 4 different roomies we had owned different patterned blankets, rugs, and pillows. She also threw out our cleaning products and forced us to buy “natural” cleaning products for the house. It should be said that she wore very basic clothing but had the most luxury beliefs that she forced on everyone around her to show how affluent and unique she was.

[@thedemonnemo]

I know someone very much like this, yes everything thing is minimal BUT very, very costly, for example her one knit cap was knitted by a Norwegian artisan who raised the special sheep for their wool, the cost was $350 USD.

[@serpentines6356]

As far as the cleaning products go, some people really do have sensitive respiratory, allergies, etc., and can't be around those.

[@ycAuntieLala]

The luxury of dressing like a homeless person. 😂 I remember when that was a trend. It might still be a thing. Reminds me of minimalism

[@Brianbeesandbikes]

The 'forcing others' behavior indicates a sense of entitlement / privilege / lack of compassion for others that defines the root ethos of elitism. An ethos that HAS trickled down, while budgetary trickles have not trickled or flowed; quite the opposite. Poverty, by America w Matthew Desmond and Andrea Elliott. OUTSTANDING Systemic Analysis of Elite Domination in the Rise and Conditions of Poverty kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZvCn4eogNKVh9U

[@arpadzigisfari5819]

@@ycAuntieLala Torn jeans - I still see plenty of them.

[@backdraft808]

I took a similar path as Rob, (poor, home instabilty, going from straight A's to barely graduating, etc) and credit my decision to join the Marine Corps as my turning point. As Rob mentioned, the need for stability, male role models, etc was spot on.

[@hayleylongster4698]

There's a lot to be said for the military in this regard. There really is. It's just discipline, really, and routine, I suppose. You can get that in the home from good parenting but it makes sense that if you don't get that, you may need it from elsewhere to readjust.

[@jimbo9305]

Poor boy from Georgia joins the USAF, has much success. Story of my life.

[@wrightjustin23]

I had a rough upbringing, came within an inch of real success, and then I blew it. I’m okay with the failure (most people do), but I’m glad some people defeat the demons.

[@jamesgornall5731]

The military has always been a tool for promoting social mobility This cat has seen the differences between stability and instability and how such things are destructive for children and how lived experience varies wildly from the views we're often forced to conform with.

[@josephtessari8769]

Same for me, Marine Corps made a huge difference in my life. Semper Fi!

[@poissonpuerile8897]

I really wish you guys would have gotten him to talk more about how the poor and middle class pay the price for luxury beliefs. Your guest barely touched on that, and it's a very important issue.

[@FortisConscius]

I wouldn't object to having another interview in the future with this chap to follow up on this.

[@monember2722]

I felt he gave examples of damaging ideas. You can very clearly see the how those groups are paying the price.

[@Dancestar1981]

All they do destroy our lives

[@cath.lamontagne5357]

It is not soul building to just be against something (some oppressor)…our souls yearn to be more than sum-zero beings.

[@teenageapocalypseusa5368]

A guy named Ryan Carson just did a video about this called “When luxury beliefs meet reality”

[@mechengineer4life]

Great convo; this guy is talking about something that one academic (cant' remember his name) who said, the elite class no longer preaches what they themselves practice. They get married, stay married, etc., and etc. but they refuse to tell the working classes to do the same and in fact scream at and denigrate anyone in the middle class or elite class who encourages them to help themselves by doing what the upper middle class and elite class do.

[@alanlight7740]

I'm reminded of an old expression from Africa, "You speak like a great chief" - meaning that you sound so crazy that only a great chief could say such silly things with no one challenging him.

[@madguruJ]

Emperors new clothes

[@TheRisky9]

"An idea so absurd that only an intellectual would believe it." -Thomas Sowell.

[@jeffk464]

@@TheRisky9 The difference between an engineer and a sociologist if you follow your values and feelings the bridge collapses people die and you never work again, in sociology you can do the same an go on fat dumb and happy for the rest of your life.

[@desireesmith862]

@@madguruJ You beat me to it

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

Wise

[@martinjohnson5498]

Nassim Taleb would say that those with luxury beliefs have no “Skin in the Game.” Which leads to being irresponsible.

[@malcolmpalmer535]

I disagree, the majority of them have plenty skin in the game. They didn't earn it for themselves, don't know it's worth and don't understand how hard you have to work to get that skin in the first place.

[@SamirKhan-yy5gy]

Brilliant interview! I never thought about the paradox between elitists’ vocalised beliefs and actions.

[@Queen-of-Swords]

Do working class people really listen to rich people and do as they say? Doubt it. This guy just has a chip on his shoulder, yet he is a prime example of how if you are intelligent and hard working you can go to university, no matter your background.

[@Foobarski]

@@Queen-of-Swords They do not listen to them in a direct manor. But look at popular culture. Celebration of the nuclear family is out, and in is single motherhood and when farthers are there they are often portrayed as a little bit bafoonish.

[@monember2722]

@@Queen-of-Swords rich people's ideas trickle down just like their fashion. What you see on runways may look outlandish or ugly, but a modified version ends up in affordable clothing stores every season and then gets worn by the masses. Similar thing with ideas. When you hear the millions of black people undone over white privilege, and insisting on it being a real thing, that is what has happened.

[@annabell3385]

@@Queen-of-Swords the people with money are the influencers. They make things popular. It's also the people with money who are more likely to become celebrities and pap "journalists."

[@ELee-zv5ud]

@@Queen-of-Swords The elite are ones that drive culture. I'm old , so I have seen over time the shift in media on what behaviours and values are promoted. So you're right the lower classes are not listening to the elite, but they have been watching all the sitcoms, for the last 50 years. Children are the collateral damage. Aside from the inhuman treatment of kids, in itself, the elite and those like you who discount the effects should be concerned for yourself. The level of random violence is increasing. Wasn't it just a day or so ago in upper class area of NY a mother walking her baby & was killed. That's what he is getting at, more kids are growing up in neglect, chaos and outright abuse. This has consequences for everyone.

[@hayleylongster4698]

I totally, TOTALLY chime with this guy. I went from a lower middle class comprehensive school to Cambridge on a research masters scholarship. The culture shock was massive. My (Yorkshire) accent was suddenly novel and hilarious. The differences between me and very affluent colleagues (most of them extremely wealthy Americans and Canadians) seemed very extreme to me, and the contrast between our prior lives wasn't half as stark as this gentleman's as he obviously grew up in legit poverty. But the concept of 'luxury beliefs' came into stark relief for me as soon as I went to uni (at a russell group the first time, Cambridge the second) and really solidified itself later on when I was around majority foreign students.

[@sharonalbanese8084]

A really interesting conversation with some fascinating ideas. It has always been the case that the upper classes want to tear down the institutions- the Bolsheviks for example were upper/middle class. The poor are too busy trying to earn a living to be revolutionaries.

[@sallyb1689]

Hard truth over a soft lie is what humans need.

[@kogorun]

I'd like to see why you think all Bolsheviks were upper or middle class. For one, they were from an empire which had "social estates" - their place, duties and privileges in society - codified in laws, as opposed to a society where actual classes exist. Next, let's look at some prominent party leaders: Beria was from a poor family; Stalin was from a poor family; Kamenev was from a poor family; Kaganovich was from a poor family; Khrushchev was from a poor family. Among the ranks of the party, being from a peasant or laborer descent was a mark of prestige, and a lot of low-mid ranks were from peasantry.

[@angelatakano6072]

It’s so uplifting to meet a person who has suffered from being raised in poverty and does not make any excuses not to mature into a smart, articulate young man who can contribute to society, even more than the ones that grew with money and privilege and money. It gives me hope for the future of America and the world. Kudos to him!

[@haroldthomas2172]

My 31 yr old daughter has NEVER been late in her life...just the way she is. We were discussing timelessness and she remarked we should not expect other cultures to follow our expectations. She doesn't see how it doesn't help marginalized groups to be unreliable.

[@n0w3lly90]

How about following our expectations with regards how women and girls are treated in society? How does she come down on that? There are some cultures/ ideologies that we are welcoming into the mix here that have a far lower view on women and girls, and roles appropriate to their gender. We even have people who view those with no religious beliefs as abhorrent/ intolerable (i.e. atheists/ agnostics)

[@ms-jl6dl]

Oh yes we should. There's a reason why our culture dominated the world for the last 200 years.

[@aidasa3791]

@@ms-jl6dl ????????????????????????????????? our? who is we

[@alanlight7740]

There are more than two options. A third option is to respect other cultures' ideas about timeliness while also being truthful with them about the downsides of a culture where no one can be relied on to be on time, and to reject any expectations that we should bail them out when their rejection of punctuality causes them problems. Likewise respecting the attitudes of foreign cultures does not mean that we should accept those attitudes in our own country, and we should also distinguish between the punctuality expectations of different cultures. In this latter respect, for example, some cultures have a five minute grace period, and I'm told that the French have a ten minute grace period, whereas some missionary kid friends of mine once told me that in rural Colombia the grace period could be two weeks and hosts would actually take offense if a visitor showed up at the announced time of an event. No one was expected to arrive until at least three hours after the announced time. (In fairness, with seasonal rains that flooded rivers people were frequently delayed by up to two weeks through no fault of their own.) An expectation of a five or ten minute grace period seems to work reasonably well and may even promote a more sociable and relaxed atmosphere - whereas grace periods measured in hours tend to do very poorly.

[@matthewrussell8590]

@@ms-jl6dl 200 years ? Western culture has dominated since the 1600s

[@mikewood8680]

Rob is a class act. I hope his message goes far and wide.

[@sisiphas]

What I have seen is not just a ‘trickle-down’ effect so much as a ‘throw down’ effect. I spent 10 years working as a social worker in child protection - the system was managed by gay childless women who were wealthy and had views about child raising that excluded men and they were much more critical of working class (and non-working class) men than the women and encouraged staff assessments of safety of children that actively encouraged the mothers to leave men for quite trivial reasons s (Eg they swore a lot or went to the public every Friday of whatever). A few years later the women were in MUCH worse shape as single parents. I left finally as the anti-birth father stuff was ingrained.

[@TheLavachild]

I was a foster father for many years. I noticed a very similar thing here in Los Angeles.

[@tablescissors]

What is an "anti-birth father stuff"??

[@sisiphas]

@@emmalouie1663 yes, commonly poverty and ineptitude. ‘Management’ is the word that demonstrates the problem. When I started in child protection, ‘supporting’ the family was the objective, various budget cuts, and cultural changes in the systems management, coupled with some practice pattern changes resulted in the mess I described. It may have been unique to the jurisdiction I worked in but I think not. One of the great unmentionable statistics (then as now) was that natural fathers were much less likely to abuse children (sexually and physically) than were step ‘fathers’. That’s not so say many step fathers do a great job, just that children are more likely to be abused by men unrelated to them.

[@TheLavachild]

@@tablescissors it is when the courts or social workers have a bias against fathers in general, but especially father's having custody of their kids, just because they are male.

[@robw7676]

@@tablescissors I suspect that refers to the belief that biological fathers are an un-needed inconvenience to be disposed of from the child's life at the mother's behest. A common theme in gynocentric social worker circles.

[@unit18nate]

I just call it preach left live right and listening to those people nearly ruined my life.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

That's a great saying Nathan.

[@rid.h.tom.4296]

So true. I see it amongst the outwardly left wing parents of my kid’s friends. It’s almost as if they don’t really want to engage for real so this is like their outer shield.

[@63rambler66]

Rob Henderson coined "luxury beliefs". Nathan Miller coined "preach left live right". Credit where credit is due.

[@geekylove3603]

Working Class people voting Brexit ergo The Conservatives.

[@mrsparklepants1705]

Really enjoyed this interview, the impact families has on a child’s development is understated. Yes there are single parent successes, but I believe more succeed with both parents behind them.

[@WhizzingFish12]

Statistically its not even close. Single parenthood is the #1 predictor of poverty and its associated pathologies.

[@winstonsmith8240]

I very much doubt Stoneage women would have faired very well as single mums. 😉

[@WhizzingFish12]

@@winstonsmith8240 Its almost like men and women are designed to be complementary to one another. Almost. lol

[@Madonnalitta1]

@@winstonsmith8240 no, imagine having to fight a sabre tooth right after giving birth! Man's work.

[@Queen-of-Swords]

He literally IS an example of people being a success with a "bad" background.

[@md1trk]

People don't become more conservative as they get older, they become more experienced as they get older.

[@paxandlux]

When I went to college, I had a similar experiences. One of my friends told me a few months into freshman year that some people thought I was making up the stories of my life because I had so much drama going on. I was really offended at the idea that people thought I was lying. My family was really extremely dysfunctional. So, Of course, the stories about my family were going to be messed up and crazy. I’m creative, but not that creative.

[@robertrussell2202]

The key to a good life = Purpose, loving family, loyal and fun friendships, a supportive and truly caring Life partner and basic sense of community and security of being surrounded by decent and fair people I think these are all key components to living a full life as a human being and yet it seems these basic things are the hardest to attain in modern society

[@stephj9378]

First time I saw it put this way. Spot on!

[@hayleylongster4698]

Indeed. They key word here is 'purpose'. We all find purpose in different things (some people are quite happy without a family, but with a vocation, some people's purpose lies entirely in their family etc. etc.) but a combo or selection of all the above will satisfy most people. but you're right, these things are now hard to attain. Especially the community and stability.

[@James_36]

​@@hayleylongster4698"but a combo or selection of all the above will satisfy most people" I would say all people - I have yet to meet anyone who has devoted their entire life to a career not live to regret it later on at some point for example. People pay a price for their dedications

[@annabell3385]

I don't know anyone who is happy without a family of some kind. The lack of is why so many people are obsessed with their dogs to a very demented extent.

[@WayoftheFerret]

I know the thing I need in life is purpose, and it's the one thing I cannot acquire. Quite cruel if you ask me.

[@emilymunton9978]

This reminds me of the movie, “He’s just not into you”. Many of us in society where we see failure want to build people up. For example, your sister’s marriage fails and you want to affirm her as a single mother. Or, your girlfriends struggle to meet someone and you want to affirm their life status. It is a desire for kindness and empathy and an acknowledgment of the difficulties posed in the modern environment. Have said that, what is kinder? The truth or empathy? A push towards relationships and stability? It’s a tricky one to navigate in one to one relationships.

[@timwilson2920]

How can the truth be at odds with empathy ?

[@conradmason87]

What you're talking about is actually other regarding yet self referential. Philanthropy is a slippery slope to nowhere.

[@conradmason87]

Avoid being a rescuer, lest you drown along with them.

[@amorfati2663]

In a nutshell being “nice” should never be put above being honest. But they don’t need to be entirely mutually exclusive. That’s why diversity, inclusion and equity and indeed compassion needs to be seen as subordinate to competence, merit, discipline, resilience but still relevant. Nature is not fair, life is not fair. Humanity would have already failed many times if that fairness was an expectation. “The obstacle is the way”. I also think that history and in particular the lack of a middle class until relatively recently is not appreciated by the “woke” liberals and the vast majority of feminists who have digested a mistaken highly abbreviated and self serving black/while, male/female, master/servant narrative. We live in times where both history and science is denied and twisted to suit the narrative of the truly privileged.

[@rachaelbrugmans4309]

@@timwilson2920 when its not paired with solutions, tact, patience and situational awareness. You're both right, and you're both wrong. Telling someone you love a brutal truth, is something to be thoughtful about. It should always involve examining the right time and place, context, who SHOULDN'T be present (if anyone), public or private, and what they are doing AFTER that in the next 24 hours (do they need to focus on their kob as an air traffic controller tonight? Yeah maybe don't give them something big to think about today) After that, we must assess the best way to convey this hard truth: Is the person a straight shooter? Bring whiskey and tell it straight. Be prepared for pushback. Be calm, be warm, and speak less, but be logical for the most part Or is the person sensitive, or avoidant? Better to hint at the truth in context of several conversations, and be very careful to frequently affirm that you are here for them and believe in them as a person, and their ability to turn things around/fix things/move on to better times...rather than wrongly pandering to a delusional depression-induced alternative "perspective" out if the reflexive fear of hurting feelings. Be prepared for tears, and there may or may NOT be a follow up "therapy" session where they NEED to talk. And I could go on. Truth without empathy and some measure of Mindfulness and tact, is just being a lazy jerk. Motivated enough to harshly spit out the truth to feel superior in telling the truth... happy to stroke their OWN ego, but too lazy to do it in a way that benefits both parties. Nope, just truth bomb and leave, because its all about them. Lame.

[@konmoe121]

In Switzerland it's important that you don't show off your wealth. And I think we have those topics as well, but our dual education system (and the high skill level and pride) gives traditional jobs like carpenter etc. a really high value so just being in top universities doesn't give you that social credit

[@georgeromey4971]

The vast majority of rich people don’t give a rat’s ass about poor people or poor minorities. They do it for virtue points.

[@michaelhampner7672]

What a great conversation. My daughter is inside the leftist Antifa circles and all of their friends are from the higher middle class, well educated families like teachers and doctors.

[@serpentines6356]

@@emmalouie1663 Oh, they are right out with all their garbage. Pushing it through the state and everything. It's not stealth at all. I guess so many parents are weak, and putting up with it, so not sure if it's any use asking, "Why are so many parents putting up with this"?

[@davidcook680]

Great job idiot. You raised a stupid person.

[@michaelhampner7672]

@@davidcook680 such a kind reply. Thank you so much.

[@thedemonnemo]

​@@serpentines6356 a lot of these activist kids' parents have identical beliefs.

[@serpentines6356]

@@thedemonnemo Oh, sure some do, but a lot of them don't. A lot of "kids" get very influenced through school, and the parents are busy working, and then even more influenced when going off to college. The kids think of themselves as brilliant. There's no getting through to youth when they have become so influenced are are convinced they are right. There's always trying though.

[@user-ts8ec7mm7u]

Gosh, the culture shock of going to a PhD program has been upsetting honestly. I fund everything myself- my parents do not help financially, but a lot of my peers have their parents still paying some bills for them, even when everyone in our program is funded and we all get a paycheck. I had to have MAJOR surgery this year, and thankfully I found a resource for that would offer to help pay for my procedure and PT. I had a friend who got a house and got the down payment from his girlfriend's family. When I told him that I was thankful because I got help to pay for the $7000 of medical care that I reacked up in the past 2 years from being ill. His first thought? "Oh do you know any programs that can help a first time homeowner". I wanted to fucking scream because he made fun of me constantly for investing my money and caring about my financials, but literally got a house through his girlfriends family and didnt even care to try to find something cheaper. Oh and there going to leave thius home in approximately 4 years, which is a waste of a mortgage. I'm constantly around people who just don't get it, and I absolutely hate it

[@SomeGuy-cw9rw]

Read lots of Thomas Sowell while you’re working your way through that PhD program. And Robert Nisbet, Roger Kimball, Theodore Dalrymple (aka Anthony Daniels), Walter E. Williams, James Q. Wilson, Roger Scruton.

[@thedemonnemo]

He is likely to rent the house to grad students as a source of income after he graduates, I used to work for a management company that would help individuals in my town rent their houses and took a percent of rent for payments.

[@catleugh]

Historically, In England, White Privilege was never the biggest problem. The worst injustice was from Upper and Middle Class privilege over the downtrodden Working Class of whatever colour (mainly White).

[@DarkAngel2512]

White privelege wasnt a problem atall as it didnt exist as a concept.

[@mc.8391]

How right you are..... but the so-called Elites do their best to fade that out, and in its place put "their White privilege" which is exactly that "Theirs not Ours"....

[@suziecreamcheese211]

People listened too much to celebrities, people who could afford to get married, have children and divorce frequently. These single mothers who “worked” had plenty of money and paid staff to look after the house and the children.

[@mattschrader5047]

The vast majority of political hatred in the past two centuries is born out of Marxist ideology. The oppressed/oppressor narrative is what you are pointing out. During the industrial revolution the economic elites were the oppressor and the working man was the oppressed. Today, that paradigm has been proven to be bullshit in free market economies. The Marxists have taken a different tack now. White people are the problem, and there are a lot more white people to hate in this world than there are rich people and Marxism has never been more popular. It's an evil tyrannical ideology based on manipulating the masses to install the regime so the academic elites can rule.

[@mattschrader5047]

@@DarkAngel2512 Because it is born out of Marxist critical theory. More commonly known as scapegoating through propaganda. Hitler was a master of this concept. Privileges are born out of your culture not your skin color. Just because people with cultural privileges share common features like skin color does not mean that skin color is how those privileges came to be. That has got to be the most ridiculously lazy and biased assessment of world history and the struggle against oppression that I have ever heard. Essentially make white people subservient and all the problems in the world go away. Absurdly racist not to mention dangerously genocidal.

[@josephshepard2962]

Rob is largely making the same argument Charles Murray made in the book "Coming Apart." The well off know what needs to be done to be successful, but refrain from telling everyone partly because they don't want to come off as judgemental. Also, part of the "luxury beliefs" approach is that the well off are intentionally giving bad advice as a way to lock in the *real* privilege they have and don't want to lose.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

Although of course they are destabilizing society when a majority of children grow up with instability. It seems to be one of the obvious reasons for the huge increase in depression and anxiety in young people in the past few decades but especially the past 10 years as we reach 2 or 3 generations of instability across virtually all working class communities.

[@martindenham2207]

This makes so much sense. I listen to a lot of advice about filmmaking (a very privileged elite industry), but know from my own filmmaking experience, what they're saying isn't helpful at all - it's like they're not trying to help whilst appearing helpful...

[@hayleylongster4698]

Ima read this book now, thanks

[@andrewwood7303]

The well off are busy being well off. Why would that conjure a conspiracy in one’s mind?

[@conradmason87]

Having a brain and using it critically and concisely is not a privilege it is an evolutionary trait. Some abuse their opportunities and fall by the wayside. The fittest and most coherent survive and thrive and no amount of levelling out will alter that!

[@nicholasschmidt3073]

This guy should read Thomas Sowell's the Vision of the Annointed. He talks about exactly the same dichotomy.

[@mikegray8776]

What a great guest - such uncomplicated and effortless wisdom. He sums up exactly what we all perceive vapid 21st century American elitism to be. These ARE the last days of Rome - which, for me, frankly can’t all come to a head too soon.

[@rid.h.tom.4296]

The last days of an empire is not something to wish for if you took into account what the repercussions would be on most of people.

[@mikegray8776]

@@rid.h.tom.4296 When two factions each buy into a different and openly corrupt ideology - which can incidentally never be wrong about anything - and elects to openly despise the other, with no attempt at mutual understanding - then both sides deserve what befalls them. Sadly, those “elites” (financial aristocracy) which have studiously engineered the current situation, will probably survive better than most. But even they WILL catch a cold, world-wide - which is way overdue. Obama was in a UNIQUE position to break that mould in 2009 - but instead voted for the Library and the home in Martha’s Vineyard. Sadly predictable. Any democracy which is inspired by Lobby culture rather than Representation deserves to fail, and those who choose not to see it, do not deserve to be exempted from the fallout. Hopefully a 21st Century democracy, more fitting and more noble, may arise from the ashes.

[@jamesgornall5731]

@@rid.h.tom.4296 mos def, the best reason for gun ownership is that at least when things fall apart you've got a painless way to game over yourself

[@rid.h.tom.4296]

@@jamesgornall5731 if that’s your plan…. Personally I do my best to train and always prepare to give myself and my fam a chance at making it. But I am also a realist….

[@fantasyfootball804]

Brilliant interview. It's difficult to imagine how one grow up in dysfunction and rise up like this guy did. Very inspiring story.

[@alisdairmccabe7497]

Heard this guy with JBP last year and his concept is something i figured out a while ago but without the finesse :) Love this guy :)

[@SATULAL]

I can say I have had the same experience as you! Rob just nails the concept of 'luxury beliefs' in a cohesive way!

[@russellsharpe288]

@@SATULAL Yes, I think 'luxury beliefs' should take over from 'virtue-signalling' as the term of choice for the woke potpourri, not least because it pinpoints the self-serving nature of the whole thing.

[@martindenham2207]

Absolutely brilliant interview that really shines a light on what is REALLY motivating what we say or what we do. There's a lot of craziness in the world right now, and it's not always easy to decipher what's going on and what's driving it, but what fascinates me is when you filter that through psychology to find the true motivator - bitterness, jealousy, revenge, desire to be liked, expressing moral authority etc... it's frustrating when you can't have an honest conversation with people about solving a problem when the reason those people are in the room is anything but to solve the problem. The status game is certainly an exhausting one to play. However, it's good to know you're not crazy when in such situations.

[@KatieLHall-fy1hw]

Yes! This is one interview that I find SO important!

[@conradmason87]

The fact is that everyone is playing the survival game, which is not actually a game but a necessity. Some understand that, and what it actually takes, far better than others.

[@tablescissors]

Narcissists are never wrong. Remember that. And...they are vengeful.

[@martindenham2207]

@@tablescissors I couldn't agree more. I've been on the receiving end of narcissistic behaviour far too many times.

[@richardkovacs2006]

Norbert Elias wrote about this in his "The Civilizing Process" (1939) that the upper class always finds nuanced ways to distinguish themsleves from the rest/lower classes in forms they (the lower classes, esp the middle classes) have to learn to imitate. By the time they do, the upper class finds another way to distinguish themselves. As far as I know he (this book of his) became very popular and influential among sociologists in the 1970s. I'm just 20 mins in, he may mention this book later on. But his ideas very much remind me of Elias's theory.

[@gunnersaurus17]

I’ve wanted to see an interview with this chap since I read his superb Quillete article a few years back. Thanks for making it happen, Francis and Konstantin, and for Rob for taking part. Good show!

[@naomiruwainegutierrezparri3997]

This was a wonderful video. I am happy to say I watched all 56 minutes of it. Rob and I have something in common with each other, we both grew up in foster care and crawled our way out of it. I was taken in by some good foster parents my senior year of high school, but they are ultra liberal and could never provide the structure I needed. It wasn't until my early 30s that I was able to be grounded. I completed my undergraduate degree in foreign languages, and am now earning a second BA in business. I speak three languages fluently, work in a public school and own one small business. Rob speaks a language I understand. Nobody will really know what it is like not never feel like we belong. I appreciate all the work he has done.

[@margaretmaeda2548]

He’s brilliant! His idea is so simple, so obvious - I never thought of it!!

[@classycompositions932]

The analogy of raising children comes to mind: some people don't set boundries for their child and let them do whatever the hell they want, somehow thinking / claiming that it's the nice thing to do and the child will be happy that way. But actually, both children and adults need boundries. Noone can function with no structure or set of norms, being told "do whatever the hell you want". And some structures or norms just objectively produce better outcomes, so it is a form of relativistic inresponsibility to undermine those.

[@nowistime8070]

what an amazing story of overcoming

[@djlow2398]

Voting left while living right is common. If many people wore the consequences of their own promotions and votes, they'd be doing it very differently.

[@c.b.4270]

The ❤️ is on the left , but the wallet is on the right is a phrase here in Germany..

[@TwinTalon01]

Phenomenal interview, absolutely love it. Thank you guys so much for bringing him on and talking to him. Very illuminating.

[@danepaulstewart8464]

What a GREAT GUEST! THIS was the discussion that cleared up so much of this giant messy topic! REALITY CHECK! Gotta have him back on the show for sure! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@sophieoshaughnessy9469]

This is fascinating and rings so true. The only thing I would question is that supposition that the single moms in lower class New Haven owe their current status to the luxury beliefs of the upper class. That seems an unaccounted for leap of logic.

[@adventuremedic4538]

This really is a great interview! Rob was able to clearly articulate things I have felt but have not been able to put nearly as nicely into words. I watched the whole thing even though I didn't intend to. I can really relate to the part about the ones having and promoting the luxury beliefs not having any close proximity or understanding of the damage these beliefs actually cause. As a paramedic, I see it with the changing attitudes towards hard drug use. Don't get me wrong, I don't think just locking people up and not offering effective rehabilitation is the answer. But the trend towards decriminalization and outright facilitation (no penalties for open use in public spaces, free needles/crack pipes/etc, a lackadaisical attitude towards the massive influx of illegal drugs into the country) all contribute to the increasing negative effects of hard drug use. To say that it only affects the user is patently untrue. There is a direct correlation with hard drug use and crime, poverty, child abuse and neglect, homelessness, the list goes on and on. But those who scream loudest about racist drug laws and defunding the police are the ones living in rich, safe neighborhoods or a security patrolled campus. Is there room for improvement in these areas, without a doubt! But until you've done CPR on a 2 year old that's been beaten to death, picked up the stiff body of an infant left alone in a crib to starve while the parents shoot up, fought with a naked person in the throws of excited delirium or listened to the intense sobs of parents who just found the dead body of their overdosed teenager; you do not get to lecture me on how a relaxed attitude on drug use is better for society.

[@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293]

Thank you for taking the time to leave this comment. You're stronger than many and definitely wiser and more useful than most of our pompous talking head politicians.

[@rosiegomez5809]

Thank you for your comment. So many who support drug decriminalization & legalization constantly minimize the destructive impact on the people around the users/addicts. What's always omitted in debates is the horrific abuse of children by drug abusing parents/caregivers. The discussion focuses on giving adults their "freedoms" whilst sacrificing the society's future... children.

[@adventuremedic4538]

@@rosiegomez5809 The children are definitely the losers in this situation. And all to often, grow up repeating the cycle. There has to be a better way!

[@serpentines6356]

Yes, thank you so much for your post here. I recently talked briefly with an EMT, and we were talking about that problem of throwing tons of money at the homeless situation, enabling them without making many of these people responsible, and requiring them to be in rehabilitation, etc. He mentioned how all these people will OD, and just expect the EMT to come along with the Narcan, and walla - bring them back to life again. Over, and over again. I also think NOT doing much to help these people recover makes the politicos that constantly ask for more money to "help" these people feel relevant, and strokes their ego. These politicos can keep promoting themselves as "caring" by talking about it, look all "concerned" about it, drag that on whenever it suits them, and keep taxing the cr*p out of us. It's despicable. Keeps all these bureaucratic jobs, money, blobby thing going. I got so sick of seeing the paid petitioners at a petition table - asking people to sign up for more tax money to get spent on "helping" the homeless. Our governor already got tons of money - billions from the feds to throw at this, and I said that to the people signing the darn things. Many people are bleeding heart suckers. I can be too. What we think of as compassion, isn't always real compassion. I also recently was reading an article series about the problem of suicides in the fields of EMT/Firemen/Police professionals. Was very heartbreaking. You take care! And I want you to run for office and actually do something to change these things for the better. 😁

[@adventuremedic4538]

@@serpentines6356 "What we think of as compassion, isn't always real compassion." I agree with this statement so much! I think you are spot on. There is no real incentive to fix the problem as long as the problem is making money for the people taxed with finding solutions. The EMT you spoke with is spot on. The expectation now is that Narcan makes drug use "safe". No, it perpetuates the problem and gives people a false sense of security. The government subsidizing Narcan availability is making the narcotic crisis worse.

[@markhamilton8491]

Rob, you are a legend. So great to listen to such calm wisdom

[@zord829]

So glad you finally have this guy on. I listened to him on the Bari Weiss podcast and find his whole luxury beliefs thing very relevant of what's going on.

[@jittmet7766]

Dr Anthony Daniels (Theodore Dalrymple) used to write about this.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

On his web page Rob has links to many Theodore articles and acknowledges his contribution to the commentary on this topic.

[@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293]

I love how Francis and Konstantin ask their questions, they remind me of the ease and conversational intelligence shown by Joe Rogan during his earlier years doing his podcast. Near the start I clocked Konstantin saying to his guest, '"you've had an outsiders perspective to many different worlds...?" and I thought that was a brilliant comment and such a skilled way to further unpeel and open up a conversation, both broadening the cultural scope and deepening the psychology. Such an excellent channel guys, well done. Nothing is overlooked or missed by your viewers, we get all the little gold nuggets and really sit and appraise them. Value. :)

[@minuishaq631]

This guy needs to write a book about luxury beliefs to get his message to a wider audience

[@shaneemanuelle6243]

I remember the first time I heard of all this white privilege and mysogeny stuff. I by no means was poor growing up, but certainly rich either. So there was me this white, rural bloke being lectures on white privilege by a rich Gujarati woman about my privilege and that she as a coloured woman was oppressed. Visited her house, mansion next to a golf course, father surgeon. My parents typical country town home. And I was being polite, driving her around showing her the countryside, since she was the sister of one of my friends.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

What is very much missing from the current identity politics involving biological sex, gender and ethnical/racial background is CLASS. Without acknowledging class we can get the most ridiculous claims from the truly privileged such as the daughter of a surgeon.

[@nevbarnes1034]

@@viviennedunbar3374 The left tried dividing us by class--pitting the proletariat against the bourgeois--and that failed to bring about the global revolution they wanted. So now they hate class issues, and instead divide us along lines of sex, sexual preference, race etc. They refuse to address issues--such as immigration--that disproportionally effect the working class.

[@scottdoesntmatter4409]

that sort of behavior ticks me off to no end, and frankly, I would have let her have it with a lecture of my own.

[@skylinefever]

I enjoyed when some lower class guys reply with "Wanna trade that for my white male privilege card?"

[@doh917]

Rob is great. His views and his thesis is an extension of the Thorstein Veblen's 1899 - Theory of the Leisure Class. I point that out because that's how far this ideology/pathology runs. It's a part of socio-economic adaptation

[@susiewickham9990]

You are so on the money. I will watch this. I was just saying how arrogant decadence on western society is destroying all the good bits.

[@mecheva9098]

I read this book. It was excellent. I finished it in a day. In fact, I gave it as a graduation gift to my nephew. He just graduated from the Air Force Academy, and he fits Rob’s definition of elite. I can see him being a leader in the future, so I’m hoping this will help him be wise.

[@louisecook6483]

Getting married and having children gives the best stability for children and for both the parents too. Yes some will divorce , but not all and we need at encourage young people to see it as a life long bond not something that can be dropped just because you aren't happy, you need to sit, talk and work out why you are unhappy and work on it together. The grass is definitely not greener on the other side. We need to instill personal responsibility and self respect , dignity and that you don't have to sleep with someone you go on a date with, wait until you find a good relationship first, and wait until you know that you are staying together, planning to be married etc . Waiting should be the norm not encouraging women to drop their drawers ( English slang for knickers) every time they go on a date.

[@Wonderwoman79G]

I get the sense that young people do not have any or few older role models. It does not help that there is a high divorce level so a lot do not have any couple to look up to. Moreover, there is a huge hook up culture which does not help. Even online there is a lot of toxic masculinity encouraged by older/young men that encourages young men to hook up or to not get married.

[@elsafralves]

Hmmm yes and no, bad marriages can be way more traumatizing than some divorces... Yes father and mother together - and happy - is the ideal but we need to admit that the probability for something to go awry is too high. Many full functional adults have survived divorce so...

[@MathildaFlow]

@@elsafralves Are you a divorced mother?

[@elsafralves]

@@MathildaFlow my personal life is not relevant at all to debate the problem

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

@@MathildaFlow a shitty reply to a sensible post.

[@creamonfirst3252]

I found this very interesting. I am an older woman who worked in the NHS, now retired. I had/have friends and colleagues who are very into soaps and the latest story line of murder and infidelity. Not fond of these programs myself. It seems these storylines constantly being pumped into people's homes show this negative view of life as "normal" for all. I realise not all would be affected necessarily but it is still more popular to watch this than constant happy/bland stories.

[@bravenew1934]

I feel like I’ve always been a hardcore “liberal lefty” at heart (I’m a mostly straight white female, if it matters) and one thing I really can’t get over these days is the fact that certain people who used to tease me about what a “bleeding heart hippie” I was, like, five to ten years ago, have since ended up condemning me for becoming too “centrist” for their liking - even that I might be in danger of being “radicalised” by the alt-right or something. The worst one for criticising me for the above was in fact a straight white male, if it matters. Go figure. All the while my core beliefs basically haven’t changed - it’s other people, apart from a level-headed select few, who have apparently changed and, in the process, gone batshit insane. Incidentally, not a single person who could *legitimately* claim at least some oppression status (non-white, non-straight, non-middle/upper-class, etc) has ever had a go at me for being not “woke” enough for them. Maybe because they’re actually trying to get on with their lives and actually have much more important shit to worry about than if enough otherwise privileged people are sufficiently virtue-signalling..? Or they’re just basically not full of blatant hypocrisy like the “do as we say not as we do” class of people now overwhelmingly tend to be..?

[@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293]

Me too. My sub-cultural background is the anti-establishment DIY underground music, fashion and art scene and to think that I'm now seen as 'right wing' and all those other disgusting meaningless lazy pejoratives by the younger generation (and my dopier peers) is UNBELIEVABLE to me.

[@Sly_404]

It's simple, upper/middle class have overtaken the discourse on the left. It's in their very interest to end discussion on class (as this would put the spotlight on their own kind) but identity markers like sex, gender or race!

[@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293]

@@Sly_404 Good observation!

[@Microtherion]

It's odd. Definitely, there are a handful of subjects where my views haven't changed in the slightest, but are suddenly 'unacceptable' to the same people who didn't bat an eyelid 20 years ago. None of them has anything to with economics, so how they can place someone on 'the left' or 'the right' is mind-boggling. What is a 'left-winger' who never talks about redistribution of wealth, or affordable education, or healthcare, or pensions etc? (Except a massive hypocrite, as you say!) They rail against things like 'colonialism' - a truly appalling system of course which, however, ended in the mid-20th century - whilst ignoring the extinction of normal jobs in the west, and the simultaneous exploitation of foreign workers *today*, taken to extremes which genuinely resemble (another talking point) slavery. I don't see them attacking the CEOs responsible, but they'll give us all a long and incomprehensible lecture about why a statue is offensive, or why we need new pronouns and so on. And a suspiciously recurrent factor is that it's always the well-off who are offended, and always on *someone else's behalf*. (Could we not let them speak for themselves? Are they too poor and stupid to do so?) Long story short, if your wealth is the cause of someone else's poverty, I suppose it *is* a neat trick to reduce every conversation to a question of attitudes, never anything so vulgar as money. What are they going to do: protect our 'feelings', including new ones they make up, or allow people to feed themselves? The second one would be really expensive...

[@chrisdavie8163]

I'd say I was somewhere on the left and it was those same types who made me wonder whether I had moved to the right....or had they moved to the extreme left? I'm very happy with a welfare state, I'm really happy with a colourblind approach to race, I'm really happy for women to do whatever they want in life, I'm mostly tolerant of religions as long as they don't change our culture or force their opinions onto me.... Yet according my old friends on this new left, race is a problem, religion (mostly Christianity) is a problem, sex and biology and women's rights is hushed up, the working class and welfare state is hardly ever talked about, the idea of nationalisation of utilities (an idea where I'm not even sure where I stand nowadays) is largely forgotten. The left also don't understand how damaging it is for Britain to be selfishly nicking the best from other countries and stealing all their talent just because "immigration is nice". I have become a somewhere where they've become an anywhere. They began to use new words. They started to hate old films and music we all used to like. The 1990s/early 00s was dirty to them when it was a joy to me growing up. They became less tolerant of debate. I became more tolerant of debate. They wanted more authoritarianism via the state and had more distrust in people when it came to voting (Brexit, General Elections etc). I had more trust in people and wanted more democracy via the people to develop (Liquid Democracy advocate, voted Brexit for a mixture of left/right and centrist reasons including less layers of politics and more sovereignty to the people). It's all changed. But who actually made the change?

[@robertrussell2202]

It is awful. The rich elites tend to be the one's who need educated on fairness and basic decency

[@Normalperson2]

Rob is one of the smartest social philosophers around. Great talk

[@ladycourttales2720]

He is spot on. I’ve had the fortune to walk in both worlds. I prefer reality The break in understanding causing harm is an excellent analysis.

[@frankvonfrauner]

Whenever people are in the majority, they seem to develop a complete inability to judge whether their actions are good or bad. Results don't matter, only social pressures. As long as they get that feedback convincing them that they're a good person, they don't care what harm is done in their name. Just look at all the suddenly pro-war leftists that support sending $40 billion to Ukraine to buy US made weapons, half of which are going to end up on the black market because we KNOW Ukraine is a deeply corrupt country that sells arms to terrorists and Nazis. But that's okay because everyone has Ukraine flags on their cars.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

I went to McGill in the mid 1980s, and this phenom wasn't as large then, but the same cohort of the out of touch elite was there. I was in engineering, so I didnt run into them too often, as they were mostly in the arts/humanities faculties. Today they are al over this. As an alumnus, its hard to watch.

[@marcmeinzer8859]

At a state university in Ohio it was the middle class white guy room-mates who were clean and conscientious and the aristocratic now billionaire Arab foreign student “distinguished alumni” who was a dysfunctional slob who had to be asked to leave owing to his poor behavior. He told me that Omar Sharif played his real life great uncle in the film LAWRENCE OF ARABIA but then later while making a study of this film I learned that that character was actually fictional. I met the foreign student at a Halloween party where I attended dressed as TE Lawrence. I found him fascinating though and was opposed to kicking him out of the apartment. He had a WASP girlfriend from an elite background but is now happily married to a member of his own tribe and has a large family.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

@@marcmeinzer8859 interesting. Thanks.

[@lisamierop3870]

outstanding interview. What an inspirational voice. Please let him be heard! He makes complete sense in such a reasonable voice - so unpretentious.

[@psyskeptic9979]

What a great insight luxury beliefs is by Rob. I knew about it before, but listening today I understand it more and it is brilliant!

[@concilium1]

Narcissism is the word that describes what we’re witnessing.

[@elkpaz560]

I think he underestimates the malice involved in the rich keeping themselves rich.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

He has already said he won't be staying in academia when he graduates with his Ph.d because of how hostile it is to facts that contradict the dominant narrative. Once he is no longer needing approval to get through school hopefully the gloves will come off.

[@Lucypetuniaggm]

Agreed, but I would add “keeping themselves powerful.” Wealth brings power & power brings wealth. Hard to separate those, particularly in politicians.

[@skylinefever]

I often mention how I don't always hate the rich or powerful for being rich or powerful. I hate them for finding ways of taking away the ladder after they climb it.

[@paulrevere2379]

This guy is breaking through one of those barriers of things that "you aren't supposed to talk about" Good on him

[@paulrevere2379]

After my tour in Iraq without a single day off in six months straight I decided to go see Australia and New Zealand afterwards. While visiting there I encountered a couple young guys from Boston. We spent a few days together with a rental car, sharing hotel rooms etc. These two guys (one more than the other) were those kind of rich kids who downplayed their atire and it was pretty weird. What they casually spent on one night of drinks would have been enough to upgrade their wardrobe several times over via thrift stores - places they probably have never stepped into. I saw the most worn out credit card (not old just heavily used) ever in my life used by one of them. Point being that money and cost of things never crossed their minds like most people who ask themselves "can I afford it". Such a thought never crossed the minds of these guys I met. It was a weird experience for me as interacting with a military veteran was for them. Later on I learned that the seriously wealthy class have one major obligation. Oddly, it seems counter to my comments above but it really isn't. The obligation they have is to keep up appearances and a close relation is you don't share knowledge about your class with lower classes, you just look down on them if you are part of the wealthy. The only book I know of btw which tells about this keeping up appearances dynamic is Tolstoy's War and Peace. The dressing down thing is a newism which still doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I think it makes sense in some weird way to the narrow perspective of a seriously rich young person.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

I really appreciate Rob Henderson's analysis in regards to the way cultural elites are eroding the life chances of ordinary people; however, other than his own very depressing story of a broken childhood, Rob brings nothing new to the table. Peter & Brigitte Berger's (1983) The War Over the Family anticipates this conversation by 40 years. Thomas Sowell's (1995) Vision of the Anointed identifies the same problems as does Charles Murray's (2013) Coming Apart. In Britain, many thinkers have identified the same patterns of cultural and social decay based on the good intentions of elites. David Goodhart's (2016) The Road to Somewhere gives a very persuasive analysis of how the 'knowledge-class' (Berger & Berger, 1983, or 'anointed' Sowell, 1995), what Goodhart describes as 'nowheres' have contempt and disdain for the 'somewheres', that is, people who have strong roots in their local environment, family, and more generally social conservative practices.

[@WillyJunior]

There's no harm in repackaging and bringing awareness to other people's ideas. I imagine a lot of people, myself included, learned a lot from this.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

@@WillyJunior I wasn't implying there was harm, but just giving a quick survey of the history of the problems with elites screwing up people's lives. It's not a new thing.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

And if you check out Rob's web page he recommends many of the previous book such as Charles Murray. I do think his term "Luxury Beliefs" is very helpful however. Its easy to explain and so can be used as a sledgehammer against many of the ridiculous ideas and ideologies promoted by the upper class who don't practice what they preach.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

@@viviennedunbar3374 That's helpful

[@jenniferpearce1052]

It is ok to have more than one person expounding upon a concept. He's young. He has time to expand his thoughts on these topics.

[@laikwanstone8929]

What a vital, pivotal conversation. That was outstanding. If only the world and academia would learn these things…and face them.

[@taniabluebell3099]

Excellent conversation

[@DMR_MAK]

Ive noticed a friend of mine, who I grew up with, began adopting these beliefs after becoming successful, married, and owning a very large house. I think he’s adopted these beliefs to distance himself from his past, a way to signal “oh I’m not like those infidels I grew up around”.

[@jameswhite7997]

A HUGE prejudice that is everywhere you turn, that is completely undiscussed (in the UK at least), is that children in the care system, or who have been in the care system, or, who are adopted, are destined for failure and/or crime and are second class. As an adoptive parent and a teacher of white (oops) excluded from school mostly boys (oops) I will fight these prejudices til the day I die. Even if he wasn't a brilliant interview he is living proof we can write no one off because of their start in life. Awesome in the truest sense of the word.

[@hayleylongster4698]

White working class men and boys are the most criminally underrepresented demos in all UK institutions right now. Even the white wealthy guys are getting an ass kicking via their 'privelege' but at least that's real. The 'privelege' of the working class (of any colour or gender or sexuality) is a myth.

[@redskyatnight123]

I was in care ,you are right aswell, I found it best not to tell people because you get bullied, I also ended up homeless and went through the hostel system, had various drug issues aswell ,I wouldn't want anyone to go through the system, it messes you up. Also the hostel system is a massive money maker ,now landlords have cottund on ,they charge council exuberant rents. The support network you have to fight for,they have shut so many vital services. The ellegal migrants are looked after so better than British homeless, its aspeciely bad for male homeless, if you don't have mental health issues, then good luck your living in a tent , the drug services are rubbish. It's not for the benefit of us addicts it for society benefit, hence giving you stuff to get addicted to wich is worse than the drug.but it stop all of society suffering the add on problems of addiction, rehab is nearly non existence unless you have money. I've found people like to virtue signal that they care about alot of issues but its all for show to satiate there entrenched white guilt. Its like look at me I'm a good person

[@redskyatnight123]

Another thing when I was younger if you talked alot or were hyper they would just put you in isolation and lock the door ,I spent my last couple of years at high school locked in isolation, 😂they even welded the windows shut because I used to clime out, it turns out as an adult I had adhd, if only they worked out what I liked and was good at and encouraged it. In the end I had sod all gcses never went to college or out, that effected the trajectory of my whole life .

[@redskyatnight123]

Not only that I was put in care from the age of 3 onwards and moved about loads , so never had a loving connection with family or friends, so now find it hard to connect with people, it's sad because I've always been able to drop people and relationships and not really bother about it , I'm not sure I even know what love is,

[@stellifriends7785]

language and marriage are two great examples of this; as well as the hypocrisy of it, wealth insulates from the consequences of stupidity and debauchery. i have been threatened with being sacked from the school governors for saying this.

[@patrioticlegalimmigrant2987]

This is a 5 star interview. I don’t miss the legacy media at all!

[@viviennedunbar3374]

Agree 100%

[@nealasher]

So true about ‘them’ holding ideas contrary to ‘the masses’ to distinguish themselves, which by extension applies to belief systems and perception of self too. And it’s all insincere too.

[@kendrom]

Great episode! Something I wish the guest would’ve touched on further though, is why for example, the idea of marriage being outdated is so harmful to poor people. The simple fact is that no matter the type of family unit you grow up in, heterosexual, lesbian gay, two parents concentrating their financial and moral efforts on a child is far more beneficial than one. Due to advancements in technology, for the first time in human history, women can live independent of men. If you’re a woman in the upper class, it’s completely feasible for you to pay for child care, or to hire a nanny. However, if you’re poor, this is often not an option. So it’s very easy for a rich woman to say that marriage is an outdated concept, because for her, it mostly is. For her, marriage is relegated into the realm of novelty. But for a poor woman, having a partner of any type, helping to raise a child, is a far better prospect for the child’s well being. To is a perfect example of the detrimental claims of rich people having a very serious impact on poor people.

[@theresewalters1696]

Thanks for your contribution to this. It is refreshing to hear from someone outside the bubble. Most people do live outside it. Personally I believed in the traditional family. Married young but found that my husband who professed the same values became a drug addict. I had to make a decision to leave for the sake of myself and the children. So I became a single mother at 25. I always worked and was very responsible. But he paid no child support. And after several years died from his addiction. My family of origin had not much financially. Both of my parents passed as well as my children 's grandparents. With no real inheritance from either side. I am now 64 without much to pass on to my children or grandchildren. But I will say we love each other and do enjoy time together. We are good people. I do worry for my grandchildren because the world is so unfriendly for those who have no money. But I have to say when we get together we enjoy our time. I just feel bad that our Country has come to this where no one cares about humanity anymore. Seems that those who have less are Considered lazy, which we are not. BTW, my father was in the Army during WWII. I believe we still deserve respect. Our circumstances are beyond our control. I suppose if money was our aim it might be different and that is our fault. I guess I didn't take advantage of my whiteness? So I have been told.

[@fraserbailey6347]

Nothing particularly new here, but Rob is an engaging guest who has lived of what he speaks.

[@elusivemayfly7534]

A big source of insight, meaning, and often joy is spending time with people who seem totally different from you. It’s getting harder in some ways as we get more digitally connected and less engaged with each other in person. But people of different ages, ethnicities, beliefs, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. help shape one’s sense of the world. More perspectives give you a broader and even deeper understanding of what the world is like. This also brings humility and shows us good places to put our energy, plus it shows us that we are all MUCH more alike than different. I’ve not mastered this art by any means, but my life has just brought me into connection with a variety of people. I hope to meet and love many more and learn, learn, learn.

[@harryfloros8796]

They sound a lot like Chekov’s well to do characters that flirt with the idea of doing something unconventional and adventurous for a while, and then just do what they were always going to do in the first place or what their parents did before them. The only one of Chekov’s characters who did anything was Wolodya. He blew his brains out with his uncle’s gun. The rest of them just got married or stayed married, never left their wives for their mistresses, never had that affair they could have had, and they lived comfortably ever after on their rental and investment incomes.

[@mc.8391]

I really enjoyed this conversation, thank you Rob Henderson, Konstantin and Francis...

[@llamasugar5478]

This brings to mind Liz Murray’s story. I attended her talk “Homeless to Harvard” in the early 2000s, and her determination has inspired me ever since. I highly recommend interviews with her that one might find on the ‘net; the TV movie did not do her story justice at all.

[@mst-pierrem5729]

True. I was raised in upper middle if not rich family and now being a married to someone who was raised low-income family and so much of what he says is true. When I started working a low income (community sector ) I realized with quite an emotional growth and maturity shock accompagnying those discoveries that I WAS SO SHIELD about what goes on in the world but also how it works. Gosh, the research that about people who grow up in rich cast are less likely to be truly empathetic beings vs their poor but STABLE married home counterparts is giving me hope for my own family! Thank-you for being so spot on everything.

[@skylinefever]

I think about how many rich people are massive dark triads, passing down dark triad genes.

[@karl2851]

Brilliant conversation gentleman much appreciated.

[@wwaldron3]

Awesome interview, Rob is a great thinker, and has an amazing story. Thanks guys.

[@Torgo1969]

I thought I was the King of lowborn Ivy Leaguers, but this man comes from even more humble roots. Respect and honor to him. And I agree that it is a shocking experience to see how others have lived.

[@j.hmarvelous2231]

The great pioneer and USA treasure DR. Thomas Sowell started writing about this in many of his books. I’m so glad Dr. Thomas Sowell has influence many generations. 🙏🏾

[@michellechaskacyr]

Excellent episode guys! Really liked the thought on how fluid being conservative vs. progressive may actually be depending on situation. Keep up the great work!

[@walfredswanson]

Great discussion of notions of "conservative" and "progressive" ideas. The balance of ideas through thoughtful discussion is ideal.

[@jjohanesson9139]

I follow him on Twitter and think his output is so informative. Thanks for getting him on guys.

[@RussellBowes]

One of your best interviews. Rob's theories are incredibly interesting and I can see so many examples of such luxury beliefs around me.

[@HarryBalzak]

47:00 Tradition is a set of solutions to problems we have forgotten.

[@skylinefever]

There are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs. Traditions were the previous tradeoff.

[@shannonswift2233]

Man, this hit me hard - Rob and I definitely have had similar lives. Don’t talk about it much even though I’m not ashamed but it’s so hard to have young friends when many don’t relate