Folks, thank you for your enthusiasm. As a result of your awesomeness, we have already learned new things about stealth / radar / detection in 3.14. Expect a PART 2 video. In the meantime, some tips: 1. You *can* narrow a ping, it's just listed in the menu twice ("Ping - Increase Angle" etc.), and the first set are for scanning, not ping (event though it says ping!). Defaults are "period" and "comma". (thank you PhotonPulse) 2. No, as far as we can tell, the 15-20 km limit is no longer in effect. Rejoice! With a combination of pinging and passive radar you can now hone in on targets hundreds of clicks away. 3. We are still trying to figure out if CS is large enough to make a difference compared to IR and EM. 4. The chart shown for stealth modifiers in the video is old. Refer to the one in the description, which has some slightly different values for only a couple of the ships.
@Gallagher0683 жыл бұрын
CS will likely only matter in situations where IR is overpowered by ambient. In testing my group did, we took an M2 and powered off everything but engines, leaving the CS as the highest signature and when viewing the M2 from above and getting the maximum visual cross section. Interestingly, when we barrel rolled the M2 in place, it would blink in and out of radar as it goes from the large top and bottom sides and the thin side.... sides..... words.
@K0teng3 жыл бұрын
Finally, a video that gets straight to the point how detection has changed for 3.14. I wished CIG could explain their changes instead of having to relying on other people to test and figure out these changes.
@Godwinsname3 жыл бұрын
Well, they're still right in the middle of adjusting things based on feedback. Pretty sure they'll do something when 3.14 goes live.
@simonmercier67333 жыл бұрын
CIG won't explain how these mechanics work because these mechanics could be all iterated on and have a completely different feel come the next patch. For me, learning a mechanic is a big, big part of why I play those games, I wouldn't want CIG to tell us EXACTLY how things work.
@TheBinklemNetwork3 жыл бұрын
iTs CoMmUnItY bUiLdInG i agree
@pythonBlender73 жыл бұрын
Long live The Legacy Instructional Series! Love you guys keep it coming. Honestly can't wait for the 3.14 combat model i think it will bring us back to when it was worth a damn learning the glorious maneuvers taught on this majestic channel
@CatsAkimb03 жыл бұрын
Thanks for putting this out. Didn't even think about stealth this coming patch.
@ROrneli3 жыл бұрын
Stealth has been out for a couple of patches now.
@fastmadcow3 жыл бұрын
Just found this out with our own testing in our org. Wanted to search to see if anyone else had known this or made videos. Great stuff man!
@roughwriterskva27513 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another great video. I'm a bit disturbed that all my efforts to make my Valk as low-sig as possible were misplaced. With weapons stripped, stealth components added and IR suppressed the MFD was showing 1370 IR and 5720 EM making me feel much safer whilst ROC mining. Now I will go back to being the nervous wreck I was before. :)
@jub47373 жыл бұрын
Everything else xept the Suppressing IR would be helpful to keep signal down. Your MFD is accurate in all but the IR decay and IR suppression.
@MentalToast3 жыл бұрын
@@jub4737 Does this mean that for now, IR suppression is totally useless? Or will it go into effect if you use it post-warping to an area around a new ship. As mentioned, your IR/EM will go back to the normal max amount when arriving to a new area with a ship nearby, would then re-engaging IR suppression after you've loaded in by that ship successfully change the ranges?
@jub47373 жыл бұрын
@@MentalToast Since stealth has been a mechanic IR Sup has never worked as intended. Even if you toggle it on grid with people, it only affects your client. Comically, if you IRSup >your< ship, hop out and spawn another ship, your client will accept the suppressed IR and lock ranges will be reduced, but only for you. Just alpha things.
@Tyrain32 жыл бұрын
Hey man, I know Im late af, but how did you manage to get your signature this low? Especially the IR one. Im currently working on my Tali and cant for the life of me get it down below 9.7k (With supression) Looking at Erkul.Games, I see relatively similar stats for the valkyrie when comparing the two both stripped down, no shields etc.
@JagHiroshi3 жыл бұрын
This is really useful. Interesting that the scan zoom function isn't adding anything right now, but in fairness to CIG, they've thrown a huge amount of effort into this patch and these changes. As always, thanks for the work you do to clarify the impact of changes. Also - SPAT is genuinely eye opening.
@mrhunny-zf4gs3 жыл бұрын
thanks for the SPAT this sheet is pure gold , thanks for all the work and making it available for all of us..
@aariuswins3 жыл бұрын
Much needed and happy to see yalls return.
@expresselevatortohell3 жыл бұрын
This is AMAZING info! Definitely keeping this channel for reference.
@Hikurac3 жыл бұрын
Love the changes to radar and stealth. Much less convoluted than in previous patches. Great video.
@lordcoy4613 жыл бұрын
Excited to get into the new patch.
@whoisj3 жыл бұрын
this kind of reminds me of an old space fight game (maybe x-wing) where you had a passive bubble around your ship you could detect objects and the active scans of enemies. you also had an active scan cone in front of your ship which could be adjusted to be short and wide, or narrow and long.
@Muhanoid3 жыл бұрын
Didn't Chris Roberts work on that one?
@rclines0013 жыл бұрын
This is something I’m starting to research. I was looking for a good stealth smuggler ish ship. Seems this could be where the Nomad finally shines. Take the guns off and load all stealth modules and you can get both EM and IR to about 7-8k. Closest second was Cutlass at around 16k for both EM and IR.
@michaelknaptonmk Жыл бұрын
Pisces would be even less
@thedoopa3169 Жыл бұрын
I have a stealth nomad. One of my favorite things to do is fly past a massive ship have them lock on and shoot a barrage of missiles and I shut off my ship and watch every single one miss
@TheCoreGameplay3 жыл бұрын
Great info, thank you for this and the great spreadsheet
@DragonAlex13 жыл бұрын
I just saw that the Hornet Ghost only has 0.5 or 0.25 of its IR and EM emission and a dedicated stealth ship has 0.8... So another point where the heavily shield-nerfed Sabre is now useless?
@rhobit3 жыл бұрын
As always - an excellent tutorial
@bearowl9623 жыл бұрын
Good stuff. looking forward to more 3.14 vids
@chaadlosan3 жыл бұрын
Exceptional Job. Very useful.
@Ultrajamz2 жыл бұрын
What is the denominator value mean for those numerical values?
@DOAM12343 жыл бұрын
Love it, good work
@herdnkittens3 жыл бұрын
With this, pirates are going to rule Stanton now.
@Gallagher0683 жыл бұрын
Now if CIG would just fix trading so we had something good to pirate, "Had nothing but dirty miners for three stinking patches"
@SanctuaryofWanderhome3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant work as usual guys.
@Sattorin3 жыл бұрын
Spectacular work, as always!
@Crayma8002 жыл бұрын
Hornet Ghost with military components. I'm being detected from about 7-8000km away despite shutting down weapons , shields and reducing power output to below stealth level. I'm thinking of seeing if I can sit and wait until my IR can be reduced using my coolers , but doing this requires careful and steady piloting as any Aiden movements put heat back into the ship
@tahlularose92673 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the work and for sharing.
@unadoptedpuppy35353 жыл бұрын
Love you guys. Quality content.
@alltimenative2 жыл бұрын
you earned a suscribe ! great video. now I can get the jump on jump town lol
@TechnoEsoterica3 жыл бұрын
So people can no longer detect and lock ships that are powered down?
@ROrneli3 жыл бұрын
I think this is where Cross section kicks in, I don't think the auther has really explored how CS affects detection range.
@DeltafangEX3 жыл бұрын
I don't think CS quite works in general. You can still lock ships that are powered down but I get the feeling that the range is static.
@Dac853 жыл бұрын
... man I was hoping the Razor EX would be more stealthy than that. A whole 5% reduction. Whooo.
@SvetzBowman3 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@jaywright98203 жыл бұрын
Such great info, I had to Sub.
@michaeljemery2 жыл бұрын
What makes a component a stealth component, and do stealth components have modifiers (like the hull modifier)? I ask because I am comparing the FR-76 with Umbra S2 shields for a Sentinel. On paper they look exactly the same except for the higher IR value in the FR-76, and you would think that answers my question, except when I look in Erkul, the total IR values of the ship remain the same regardless of which shield I use.
@AndersJytzler3 жыл бұрын
Epic epic EPIC video! Thanks
@benvalle82533 жыл бұрын
Great video.
@mintberry60143 жыл бұрын
Just for clarification regarding the last chart, you multiply the numbers shown to get the reduced value correct? If so, that makes no sense in that a standard ship modified to be stealthy is more so than a ship design for stealth from the ground up. I’m sure Denys Overholzer and Ben Rich would have something to say about that. 😉
@WARDUKE_USMC3 жыл бұрын
Any testing data comparing detection of smaller ships near larger ships (Specifically, whether larger ships can mask smaller ships' signatures)?
@Ultrajamz3 жыл бұрын
I’ve been out of town so can’t test but wonder how the sabre is doing with all these changes
@SPIRIT-1173 жыл бұрын
I really hope it's good/better than it is in live right now, the Sabre is my favorite fighter looks wise but it feels a bit underwhelming :/
@DeltafangEX3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. My light fighter/medium fighter game revolves around the Talon and Sabre. At least until they develop a heavy stealth fighter. I mean, irl the F-22 is a heavy stealth fighter right? I figure it's just a matter of time.
@MrPyrotonic2 жыл бұрын
How do the cross section numbers fit in these these calculations?
@PH03NIX962 жыл бұрын
Does Star Citizen still have a cull distance? Back in the day regardless of signatures a target wouldn't initially show up on passive if they weren't within 15km. In this video you showed off how the target was lost at 40km but not if you would get an initial fix when they were within 40km? Unless I missed something.
@S1lverspike3 жыл бұрын
Stealth components weapons off shields off fire missiles before the enemy knows you’re there and enjoy victory.
@Stedman752 жыл бұрын
this doesnt seem to still be the case that it uses the highest number. It seems to be Additive, it adds the EM and IR together and thats your detection range. maybe they changed it? with my brother we tested various powerstates, direction facings and components. with my Sabre Raven, full grade A stealth components. and sitting normally, my EM was around 5000 and my IR was about 3500. My brother in his Hawk would stop detecting me at around 8000m The same was true of me to his ship, though his is significantly higher and i would detect him from 18,000m away, which matched his EM + IR. (this is passive radar) Using scan pings made no difference unless we turned 90 degrees to show the largest area of our ships to the other, then my bro could detect me from about 10,800m but only with a weak signal Cube Icon. Then my other brother joined in his constellation and it seemed to sort of work as you describe in this video. passively we could see his GIANT signature from 22,000m away which was his EM, but if we active scanned him with pings we could detect him from up to 45,000m away. which was roughtly both of his EM and IR combined.
@KevinHarper3DArtist3 жыл бұрын
Are you saying that if I lower the power in MFD to my systems, even though I see my detection range decrease, It will not actually decrease for my opponents?
@Skar38rus3 жыл бұрын
am i understand right that supress button wouldn't help me to be more stealth? and what else don't work? i know that this was mentions in video, but it seems that my English not so good to understand it with my ears :)
@Keithslawinski3 жыл бұрын
Is there any reason to buy stealth components in game as opposed to buying powerful components and just turning them off when not in use, or reducing their output until you need them?
@novalis7913 жыл бұрын
Thx!
@Godwinsname3 жыл бұрын
Very useful!
@melancholymonk78833 жыл бұрын
what about turning your pwr off and drifting, do you maintain ir? im presuming em would just dissapear
@lebouffi383 жыл бұрын
very nice idea for a stealth approach, so sneaky and deadly :p
@melancholymonk78833 жыл бұрын
@@lebouffi38 yeah, classic trick. i already de-couple my throttle when going into combat, it drops your IR over time so if you set yourself to like 400-500 m/s and decouple, by the time you get there your IR is like a quarter of what it is running coupled. i think gameplay like this is whats gonna bring sc onto a whole new level
@user-ch2vp8ge5m3 жыл бұрын
2:08 what is the difference between Hornet Ghost 3.9.0 an 3.10?
@nip3004 Жыл бұрын
Has this been changed again? With an em sig of 38k my friend 17km away still can't see me.
@funnelwebglider22423 жыл бұрын
whats the background music?
@crackedjabber3 жыл бұрын
Were you guys able to test if detection is still limited by the server? I think it was one of your videos that first pointed out you can't detect anything beyond about 16-20km, but after that initial detection, you could track it out to it's normal range. Is that still the case?
@MylesJacobSwie2 жыл бұрын
Obviously this video is pretty old so I’m not really expecting a reply but if anyone happens to know, it’s mentioned that the base IR max range is how other exterior clients will detect you. Does this apply for ships that have either powered off, or disabled systems entirely before approaching? For example, if an Eclipse toggled off shields and weapons, would it’s actual range of being detected go down? Or if someone were to be completely powered off, could they still be detected at a normal maximum distance?
@Cptn_Plucky2 жыл бұрын
Yes. This is the reason why you click the stealth button on one of your screens so it wont use 100% power. If you supress everything it wil lower even more then ontop of that the reason why players in the eclipse or retaliator (myself included) never have shields on is because it reduces you EM rating by half. So if you clicked the stealth and supress all buttons,shut down shields and weapons (for the bombers) i get a 5k EM rating on my retaliator and a 2.5k EM rating on the eclipse (with stealth components equiped) You're basically invisible. TLDR: yes, powering off/shuting down specific components effects EM and IR rating
@raymondsims5373 жыл бұрын
i scared the crap outta my friends by powering down where we were meeting in my saber and waiting till the last sec to power on
@eclipticsymphonyorchestra3 жыл бұрын
So Suppress IR does absolutely nothing. Is this just a feature that has not yet been activated yet? Also, the Stealth Button does not engage when pressing it. As far as I can tell it also does nothing. Is this also a future feature that has not yet been implemented? As far as Suppress IR goes, has anyone tested if this is a feature that is a defense against missile attacks?
@user-ch2vp8ge5m3 жыл бұрын
Thx for this
@bluman74243 жыл бұрын
Which does Is It the title of background music?
@manugarcia35783 жыл бұрын
What about the cross-section ? In a further video ?
@LegacyFleet3 жыл бұрын
Yes.
@51ghardy3 жыл бұрын
I am wondering if the 315p is going to remain somewhat stealthy
@davygravy73323 жыл бұрын
315P is good for drug running, 12 cargo, very good speed and maneuverability. Check stats out on www.erkul.games/ Stock 315P: EM 5090. IR 7616 only using maneuvering for calculations. Since IR is larger than EM will only use IR for comparison. Best stealth: EM 4997, IR 7291, 4.5% better Stealth except QD, used 'LightFire': EM 5022, IR 7338, 0.6% worse, but 380% more range for mobility. Now it get weird, same as above but removed guns and missiles, you do not want to get in a fight when carrying drugs, run like h**l. Make sure there are no gimbals. EM 3831, IR 6918, 6.1% better As a side note the difference in maneuvering and straight line flight only affects the lower EM not the IR. IF CIG starts to use cross section for detection then a clean vehicle should be stealthier.
@RhoOfFeh3 жыл бұрын
@@davygravy7332 "As a side note the difference in maneuvering and straight line flight only affects the lower EM not the IR. " - That's weird, as I would expect thrusters to generate heat when used. The control systems for them should boost EM a bit while in use, but I can't imagine that we're emitting cold propellant.
@davygravy73323 жыл бұрын
@@RhoOfFeh I do all my comparisons on www.erkul.games/, it may not be the best but it is the only way I know. Compare out the Eclipse on above site with same loadout but with/without the 2 CF-227 Badgers. I take them off by putting on the gimbles and then going back to fixed. almost 12% better stealth. Don't get in a dogfight with a stealth bomber just run back and reload.
@andrewcoetzee88582 жыл бұрын
can we get an update?
@Fletchman13132 жыл бұрын
Did anything change in 3.16?
@Ultrajamz3 жыл бұрын
Is there still a limit to passive radar of 12 or 15km even if someone had a high signal?
@jub47373 жыл бұрын
We didnt notice any limit in our testing
@Ultrajamz3 жыл бұрын
@@jub4737 thats great I remember it used to create a gap in detectability. So if a ship had for example a 80k signature and you are 50k away you could not detect the ship with passive radar or active ping
@Captain_Max3 жыл бұрын
I'm with RoughWriter. In a Valk, what is recommended to get a payload of Marines and a vehicle on target without getting our ass shot off?
@Gallagher0683 жыл бұрын
Clear airspace and flying low. Using terrain as available to shield against AA fire until final approach. If no clear airspace is possible. Bring some redundant dropships, maybe split off some Marines into a hoplite or two to try and get at least someone down on the ground to neutralize turrets and ballistas, etc. The M2. While technically more for transport. Could be very effective at smashing down into an LZ. Its VTOL is beefy and it's guns are meaty, and its shields are now vastly stronger. It also has the best ship board armory in game so far, with many suit lockers, rifle racks, pistol racks, and even heavy weapon racks for railguns
@shadejodoin66833 жыл бұрын
Damn the EX is the worst stealth ship? Thats rough news, just bought one yesterday
@lumavolt3 жыл бұрын
So the hornet ghost is more stealthy than the eclipse? Did I read that correct?
@LegacyFleet3 жыл бұрын
No. That was an old chart. Take a look at the one posted in the description.
@Ultrajamz3 жыл бұрын
Is there still magnification for ping?
@LegacyFleet3 жыл бұрын
Yes - default keybindings are period and comma.
@Ultrajamz3 жыл бұрын
@@LegacyFleet when using that then, you can detect a ship at over 2x max signature?
@RiccardoMaveVancini3 жыл бұрын
*Sabre ambushes incoming*
@travis22223 жыл бұрын
3.15 looks like stealth components are not stealth anymore as part of the great rebalance of components : (. Was hoping it was a bug but all PTU patches have this issue.
@SILVER-JOKER3 жыл бұрын
cool
@rossdavison65263 жыл бұрын
Thank you for such useful, well presented but disappointing news
@surject3 жыл бұрын
why?
@rossdavison65263 жыл бұрын
@@surject I'm really really looking forward to the Stealth mechanics being implemented properly. That time is not now 😔
@surject3 жыл бұрын
@@rossdavison6526 oh ic. Legit ;)
@Jamie-6663 жыл бұрын
😎
@tenryuta2 жыл бұрын
and i just dropped about 300k on the retaliator bomber, erkul says its still easy see
@christianlippmann84062 жыл бұрын
Im a new player. I didn’t unterstand anything :D GG
@aculeatus43563 жыл бұрын
I BOUGHT THE HORNET TRACKER LAST FUCKING NITE
@AlphaGamer19813 жыл бұрын
couldn't make any sense of this
@whoisj3 жыл бұрын
... IR = infrared, EM = electromagnetic, and infrared is just a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum 🙄 Game devs need to get their faux tech tend to at least not conflict with reality
@RhoOfFeh3 жыл бұрын
Naming could have been better, and who knows, they could change it tomorrow. I'm sure they wanted to convey the notion of waste heat vs. electronics emitting stray waves.
@fwdcnorac85743 жыл бұрын
Is it wrong that I'm not willing to deep dive this much into my ship? I enjoy flying and seeing things. I like to blow things up sometimes but mostly enjoy simply flying and exploring. This seems unnecessary except for PvP. Then again, he is trying to tell me how to avoid the griefers. Maybe I should pay attention?