Icy Retaliation - Operation Arctic Passage 2/2 - SEA POWER

[@Zachattack-ot2un]

The penguin getting fooled by chaff is a glitch, it’s IR guided so chaff shouldn’t do anything

[@Seth90]

not necessarily. Decoy launcher on warships operate a mix of radar and infrared decoys. Sea Power seems to omit the flare on their stat cards however. It's the same with aircrafts. According to the game they all are equipped with chaff only, but when defending you clearly see them deploy flares as well. My guess is that the game always assumes both are deployed simultaneously regardless of the situation, instead of keeping count of how many of what types are stored and used..

[@stevepirie8130]

@@Seth90I was wondering when flares were added to defensive measures on ships. I know we had them early 2000s but these scenarios are late 60s-90 based so far. The Soviets did add IR seeker to certain missiles that are in the game so I’d expect NATO countered that at some point back then.

[@Seth90]

@@stevepirie8130 the most common launcher found on NATO warships is the Mk 36 and that one is in use since 1977 (according to Wiki) and was using both radar and infrared decoys from the very beginning. Those where passive, of course. Active decoys exist too but they came much later. As a rule-of-thumb: Chaff does not burn. So whenever you see smoke deployed it's most likely the result of chemicals burning up, creating false heat sources as well as concealment (not really relevant for ships).

[@Zadlo14]

SS-N-3 is older anti-ship missile than SS-N-2, originally being designed to carry nuclear warhead. It was manually guided with the help of radar seeker and could've maneuvered only in one axis at the same time. 16:45 AGM-119 has a infrared homing seeker (like AIM-9 Sidewinder) and because of this it is invisible to enemy if they don't use air search radars.

[@hmmjedi]

Yeah the SS-N-3 was a only useful against a merchant even a low threat corvette could defend against them and by the 80's easily spoofed or decoyed... also I think the Kynda's reload was a bit too quick as it carried 16 missiles 8 as reloads which would take some time to do so as they weighed around 5 tonnes...

[@ham_the_spam4423]

Well that name is just confusing lol

[@taiko1237]

@@hmmjedi I believe the Kyndas only carry 8 missiles in Sea Power, and they can fire fairly rapidly since they're all in separate tubes. At least in some videos where people were playing a Kynda they only had 8, not all 16. Also, the P-5, P-6 and P-7 variants of the Pyatyorka (otherwise known as SS-N-3) missiles were outdated by the 1980s, but I believe they were replaced by the P-35 Progress variant (which was modernised considerably) during the 1980s so they weren't as bad.

[@thegreyhound1073]

They may be able to see the AGM-119 on radar.

[@trickythefox9598]

Slava class cruiser getting attacked by a small missile force Now where haveI I seen that before

[@fgpk7734]

You mean it being destroyed by a nation that doesn't even have navy

[@adamtruong1759]

Those Harpoons wreck the Soviet heavy units, likely because they remained at EMCOM. Also, while the late diving missiles was a bug, an ASM not being able to track a target with a small radar signature is very much a real thing. During OP Praying Mantis, this phenomenon very much happened to Harpoon fired against a small Iranian craft (I wonder how viable it is to add a malfunction and dud rate to missiles).

[@Arks1103]

Those SS-N-3s and the SS-N-12s seem to miss cause they think the frigate has a radar profile too small to be hit or even considered as a target, they do detect the Oslos but at the very last moment when its too late, or it might be a new bug.

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Asked the devs about it. It's a bug. The missiles dive too late. It's been fixed now.

[@thesturmovik6410]

@@Stealth17Gaming now you´ll loose all frigates in 15 minutes :D

[@jackcarelli]

@@thesturmovik6410 obviously that scenario is a tiny bit unfair, the best Russian ships against some NATO second rate

[@volktheplate]

adding the tu-95 really change everything and actually more realistic, since the soviet wont leave their fleet alone without any scout plane

[@redgriffindiver7740]

Pegasus suffered the same fate as the LCS. USN never figured out how/where to use them. I would have forward deployed them to the Gulf. They would have cleaned up in Desert Shield.

[@evangalinsky2499]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like this is one of those games that really could benefit from using an ultrawide monitor, more than other games.

[@Dracomarine]

So glad I just caught a good sale.

[@Cris-xy2gi]

Ultrawide or multi-screen support. Have the 3D view on one screen and the tacmap on the other would be awesome.

[@InLoveWithCities]

@@Cris-xy2gi And another for the formation manager etc

[@Zenitchik_130]

This makes whole Kh-23 incident so much funnier. Seing how SS-N-9 and SS-N-12 missing targets while ancient command guided missile gets nearly 100% hit ratio is wild

[@filipearthur5379]

Its a game bug, been fixed by now.

[@Nikolai2s]

Did we ever figure out if the entire ship burning-out from 1 Kh-23 hit was a damage model bug or intended? IIRC, it was a OHP or Spruance that had all the systems burn out every time that 100% accuracy missile hit. Seems like a result that would only be possible if there was literally no damage control attempted.

[@Iamabot4708]

Game bug presumably

[@mikethompson2650]

this game just screams the need to support multiple monitors. I also noticed that ship damage is suddenly more detailed than in previous videos I have watched. They must have added some updates.

[@dashbee3264]

Multi-monitor would be awesome

[@taiko1237]

It may actually be multimonitor already, I'm not sure, but YT videos will presumably only be single monitor since that fits in the YT video format, unlike multimonitor.

[@bigpoppa1234]

What it really needs is to go back to look at the old Harpoon Classic/Commanders Edition Ui. There's so much micro that can be reduced by implementing a proper "Group" screen, rather than individual micro of ships & weapons. eg, you select a surface/air/sub group, and then use a box selection of enemy to engage, then you get a screen that pops up showing your selected units, and their weapon load, and then a list of the enemy selection, and you allocate weapons in one go.

[@thegreyhound1073]

I've had this game on my wishlist for years now. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas.

[@nekomakhea9440]

I think the Kanin didn't activate it's air search or even know the Penguins were coming until the last second because they're passive IR guided, unlike the active radar guided Harpoons blasting away to announce their presence. Without any ESM signatures radiating from the Penguins, the Kanin thought it was being sneaky by keeping its air search turned off, then it got Surprise Penguins rammed up its ass.

[@thisherehandleIdospout]

And no one, I repeat NO ONE... likes getting Surprise Penguins rammed up their ass -_-

[@firefox3187]

When there is no point unmasking the SAM on the Frigates, turn then Bow on to the missile threat. Lower the radar target

[@hmmjedi]

Penguins are IR Guided so the Chaff should not bother them though if IR Flares are in the Chaff that might cause them to divert off...

[@mala7794]

dosent heat radiate ir emmissions? i remember i saw a ship fire it iRL once and the entire heat signature got blocked by the chaff screen since its supreheated aluminium powder

[@hmmjedi]

@@mala7794 Yes heat does radiate IR emmisions it's what a heat seeker guides on as to the aluminium powder not quite correct as Chaff is strips of aluminium foil cut to certain lengths to help jam/confuse radar guided weapons so you need a heat signature to divert an IR seeker as stated the Penguin is like a Sidewinder whereas a Harpoon for example is more akin to an Amraam... different solutions to different issues also the Penguin is hard to detect because it does not broadcast any radar emmisions so ESM (Electronic Support Measures) equipment cannot detect them...

[@von_dusenhain2523]

i can't wait to play this mission myself :D

[@redgriffindiver7740]

Great wrap-up video.

[@anthonym2423]

Suspect some of that might also be due to if the missile was programed with large US, UK warships in mind the dive might give you a fraction off appearance for vessels sitting much lower in the water.

[@SecularFelinist]

Another tragic smoking accident on a Slava-Class.

[@MustangGT4]

This was great!

[@Wolfe351]

that was the whole point of the Pegasus class get in fast fire missiles and runaway

[@CaptainAvatar238]

I love the Penguins.

[@mrzedgaming5247]

They might be diving late from chaff confusion

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Nah it was a bug

[@mrzedgaming5247]

@Stealth17Gaming cus have just let me to believe it stealth

[@Celeon999A]

I really hope they will implement multi screen support for Sea Power. I have three displays here ready for those different task windows. No scaling and dragging required 😉

[@Clint8862]

The missiles that kept diving over the top of your ships could have been down to the seekers switching between the chaff and the ship before going terminal on the ship too late to hit..

[@gluesniffingdude]

No, it was bugged, confirmed by the devs on discord and already patched

[@Clint8862]

@gluesniffingdude fair enough. That's a damn good patch time from the devs

[@failsafe123123]

Nice battle. Loosing one frigate and one bacteria was really worth it. To be honest, these frigates were just big targets, bit lacking firepower and - most of all - proper ways of defending themselves.

[@ham_the_spam4423]

They’re old without CIWS and Sea Sparrows suck, however their large radar profile attracted most of their missile supply and their positioning far away allowed the rest of the fleet to contribute token intercepting gunfire. So I’d say they helped alot.

[@adamtruong1759]

These ships should have the improved RIM-7s, I think the devs haven't added that specific missile yet. Still don't understand why anyone would go for a Penguin or Exocet when they can get Harpoons.

[@ham_the_spam4423]

@@adamtruong1759 budget? Local manufacturing? Not enough time to refit? There’s several possible reasons a ship won’t have Harpoons

[@ackrazam]

if you have the opportunity, you gotta show this to the devs that's a good idea nice gameplay btw!

[@Stealth17Gaming]

I did. They already fixed it. Devs have been extremely responsive and helpful fixing bugs

[@ackrazam]

@@Stealth17Gaming that's nice, i hope they will release a note patch about that

[@MBkufel]

Can we count on you putting this mission as-is on the workshop? I wanna have a go, but granted the missile bug will be remove at EA launch - it will be brutal. I just have a couple of ideas involving popping the boats in and out from behind the island to make the AI waste their missiles. Or using the sub to maybe try kill Slava before engaging with the surface combatants. Can't wait for the release.

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Yes it's already up there

[@jwrockets]

3, 2, 1, Penguins!

[@akathenightmare4452]

been loioking forward to the next part since yesterday!!

[@historygeek0018]

Remember: There's no kill like overkill

[@davidwhitfield6025]

Who needs the USN, the Royal Norwegian Navy can handle the Soviet Fleet all by itself. Even in real life, even against stationary practice targets with no AA or other defensive counter measures, there is on average a 10 to 20% failure rate on missiles actually hitting their target. It just isn't publicised. Will admit the Narvick was lucky to be missed by both of those missiles but maybe the cold dead hand of Harald Hardrada raised his shield and said "Not today Ruski!". That well far better than I thought possible and really shows how dangerous these smaller craft can be to these big powerful warships. Might I suggest a similar scenario between the German navy and the Soviet Baltic Fleet, maybe a pre-emptive attack on the naval harbour of Kalingrad and an invasion fleet ala a repeat of the Exercise Tiger debacle where 6 E-Boats sunk 2 LSTs and damaged 2 others and killing a lot of US troops.

[@gluesniffingdude]

Enemy missiles were indeed bugged. Patched on 10/31 in stable #69.

[@MatthewJoyceAUS]

You need to tell the devs about all those missiles missing. It just doesn't seem right.

hard to see here-- is the penguin terminal weave implemented? It should be an extra challenge to ciws

[@christiangoy6643]

Based on findings on the efficiency of Russian / Soviet weapon systems in Ukraine, it is fair to say that the behavior of the Soviet anti-ship missiles is not unrealistic. :)

[@kiliksmith4624]

YAY

[@deltawarshipdelta8565]

I have a question, while I know that ships are not that fast, especially the Oslo class in this scenario, wouldn’t it have been a better call to change regularly course of the different units, making them less predictable to missile barrages and tracking of the enemy ?

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Maybe. They did have a helicopter to and a Tu95 out there. They probably had me on radar the whole time

[@simonallen4791]

@@Stealth17Gaming I think you need to use air assets more creatively use F-5a's (once available in game) to intercept subsonic ASM's at low altitude. They should be able to engage in rear aspect shots. Also if you have manual control over the F-5's countermeasures, spam chaff plus flares to confuse the Soviet sensors/ seekers. Frankly I would have planed that mission differently. Definitely adding F-5, F-104 & P-3s. Possibly adding GBAD and an OHP instead of the 2 PHM, Those boats are useless out of 'Glass', flat sea states. which a extremely unlikely at those latitudes. The US only build 4 of tem to test, in concert with the Italian Navy. Who went on to build the Sparviero Class FACM. .en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparviero-class_patrol_boat Finally Those Penguin ASM aren't as bad as they first appear. Warships generate a lot of heat from Electronics systems, Switching on any emitter also generates a localized heat signature. That's why IR works quite well for the Anti Ship role. also IR seekers are a passive system, meaning Radar Warning Receivers are useless against them.

[@mikemcknight1104]

In almost all of these videos you get shot at first. :D

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Yes. That needs to change

[@snisksnask]

You just sank the Moskva

[@jonathanduchesne5234]

Nice what is your gpu

[@Hurricane2k8]

7:35 You misread SS-N-9 as SS-N-19 in the previous video. The missiles you're not so sure about were in fact fired by the Nanuchka EDIT: 21:00 no such thing as "overspent" when it comes to anti-ship missiles :)

[@kralexprofill4571]

Why was your radar turned off on all units the entire time? They knew your exact location from the start

[@IscariottActual]

Missiles bugged... Cook scenario though

[@benrisse6021]

How will it cost

[@Badmavs]

@stealth17 gaming, recently found your channel, love it, Tom Clancy would approve it. BTW, regarding missile seekers: KH22(as4 kitchen sink), late soviet supersonic carrier killer missile still use by Russians to kill children in Ukraine, has a terminal probable target radius of 100m, so bad it was, soviets only considered using it against carrier groups with a nuclear warhead, since it can’t target any ship itself. Now it targets apartment blocks, hospitals, malls. Most games extremely over appreciative Soviet’s homing tech. Especially DCS, it’s just terrible. Like kh37, it’s lot worse than Phoenix and only really can target tankers and AWACS. Yet in games it can chase fighters from 150m away. Another example is Russian awacs, a50m. Even the modern version cannot guide missiles, let alone old a50 from 80-ties. Yet in games it is as capable as American awacs. Just pathetic Little trivia from insiders I known: s400 main command units uses i386 pc as main compute, despite declared 400km radius I does not have any missiles than can do it. It uses same missiles as s300. S500 uses old as mammoth crap missiles from 70ties used by Moscow air defence against icbm, which supposed to carry nuclear warheads since homing and intercept is nearly absent. Same as Ajax-Hercules from 1950-60 in USA.

[@spacehead74]

That ssn-12 bs was hard to watch

[@jevinliu4658]

3:12 wait why were the 40 millimeters not firing?

[@luked7525]

I don't have access to the game so this is just a guess based on what I've seen: CIWS doesn't seem to engage incoming targets while the ship is on "Weapons Tight" unless directly ordered to do so. If this is true, then my guess is that the Bofors operates in the same way, as the ship was in a "Weapons Tight" stance.

[@kdog3908]

@@luked7525 Seems a little odd though. IIRC, 'weapons hold' is the only stance that would stop any weapon firing under any circumstance. Weapons tight should still allow defensive fire against positively identified hostiles.

[@Iamabot4708]

Is there a chance in trying to fix the NATO weapons accuracy the devs screwed the acuraccy of russian weapons.

[@francescomolina]

sorry .. but we need reaction of AI .. for example course change of russia .. or at least the mission creater should skript it