Steam Deck: Shaders, Caches and You - The Beginner's Guide to Shaders

[@jeenyus424]

This video was unbelievable. I find it hard to sit through any amount of most KZbin videos but I watched this entire thing and learned so much. You’re awesome dude. Subscribed

[@Darkuni]

It pleases me a lot to hear people are getting good stuff from this. I learned a lot making it, too - I just love to share this stuff. Thanks for the sub!

[@jeenyus424]

@@Darkuni Well you’ve got a great gift in being able to present information in a really captivating and informative way so thank you! Already watched some more of your stuff and very happy I found your channel

[@Sdramsay1977]

Thanks

[@Sdramsay1977]

I have been trying to find an explanation for this for ages and finally found this video. This is all the info I wanted to know and is really well explained, thank you so much!!

[@Darkuni]

Thank you for watching!

[@luegi25]

Thank you Shane for that explanation. Makes more sense with that being said. I got a PC but I'll be gaming more on my Deck

[@dustinjohnston6705]

Just order my first Steam Deck a week ago. I've been reading up on it and discovered the "shader issue" for the deck. This video answered all of the questions I had. Thank you.

[@alfwaibel4773]

Thank you so much for this explanation about this shader thing - I asked myself so often, what´s the miracle around it. Thanks! After trying to move and relink shadercache data on my MicroSD cards, with the corresponding game titles, I faced this performance hit problems and decided to upgrade to a 256 M.2 SSD (from 64GB). Now the games, thanks to the fast precached shader loading from internal storage, run smooth as silk. It is probably no big thing to move the "compatdata" folders to the MicroSD cards, which house the corresponding games. But the shadercache folders have to stay on the internal SSD. In the end, every 64GB model owner needs and will have to upgrade at a certain point in time, when the "pile of shame" on the deck will grow too much.

[@ninjason57]

I did the same thing. In reality there shouldn’t have been a 64gb model. It should have been 128gb

[@kabosune9097]

This video is informative and amazing! People should watch this video if they wonder what shader caching is all about. And I hope most games start using Vulkan more regularly.

[@Darkuni]

Thank you so much!!! I'm glad it was useful.

[@xpressbeats501]

why? what would vulkan do? reduce shader cache?

[@Angry_Bean]

At 5:59 you said "Steam deck is the first PC that download the shaders for you." It was introduce to the Linux version of Steam about 2 years ago to stop the constant stuttering while playing the game for the first time when playing games with Proton in which the Steam Deck uses.

[@Darkuni]

Ya, someone else helpfully corrected me. :)

[@JaiOnline]

Learned a lot today and got to appreciate my Steam Deck even more. Thank you for this wonderful video.

[@Darkuni]

@@JaiOnline I'm so pleased you enjoyed it.

[@hansugu3265]

There is also another thing called shader pipeline that is implemented in Yuzu. It requires someone to play through the game once, but others can compile all the shaders before the game starts.

[@Darkuni]

Yeah and I know you can download precompiled shaders for all the top-tier switch games. I just really don't want to talk about switch stuff or switch emulation on this channel. I don't need the big N after me for any reason whatsoever.

[@hansugu3265]

@@Darkuni Interesting to see people get defensive even talking about technical things.

[@Darkuni]

@@hansugu3265 not being defensive .. just trying to be cautious:)

[@daylate7]

This explanation is everything! Thank you

[@Aurorex]

Hello from Germany, that Video was so nice to see! Such a good explenation and very easy to follow. Now i just hope that my new Steam Deck 64GB will not fill up fast because of the Shadow Caches :D Got a 512GB SD Card to store the games, and i think that is enough for me.

[@g00ndini46]

I have seen this a lot while pc gaming and using the deck. I'm a person that likes to understand new things and the why, and this video answered my questions. thanks!

[@franciscogerardohernandezR1979]

I just bought a steam deck for my kid and was wondering about the reason for the different SSD sizes and pricing. Keep up the great work!

[@Darkuni]

Thanks so much!

[@coolbrotherf127]

I've been on PC for about 20 years now and I only really think I've noticed these pre-cashed shaders start popping up in newer titles. I can't recall ever having to do that with older games that largely used pre-baked shading with limited use of real time shadows. With lighting engines becoming more complex, pre-baked lighting just doesn't cut it in the modern era.

[@Darkuni]

Seems like it is getting worse every day.

[@tom_123]

Didn’t expect such an excellent video when I clicked on this. Thank you :)

[@Darkuni]

I am delighted to hear this!

[@steveb6583]

Great explanation! I’m new to PC gaming and your videos are helping me learn. Thank you!

[@willbyers7233]

I think this deserve more views and discussion particularly if you’re a newbie PC gamer (like me) and you’re planning on getting which variant of SteamDeck is available. If I’d have known this shader stuff before, I would’ve bought the 256 instead of the 64. My only option now is to install a bigger SSD.

[@DabbathaHut]

Trust me you made the right decision getting the 64. Now you can spend what you saved on a 1tb m.2 and only have spent a few bucks more for way more storage than the 256. And it’s insanely easy to install. Take you about 10 minutes.

[@Thorkitty19]

I got a 64gb and upgraded to a 1tb SSD. This is the most affordable path and doing the upgrade is not hard if you follow an online tutorial.

[@chrom4ful]

dude I installed 1tb ssd i bought from AliExpress and have been going strong for 6 months now the SSD even came pre-installed with steam-OS so it was plug and play , and guest what it's way cheaper there

[@joeleckhart2308]

This video answered every question I had about shaders, the steam deck, and it’s storage. I rarely like or comment, but your video got both- and a subscribe. Thanks for the great work!

[@Darkuni]

Wow! Thanks so much!

[@pauldeshield]

Great video with a comprehensive explanation. 👍🏽

[@pennpen]

Simplifying the complex. Good video.

[@christofin6057]

Amazing video! Something else to add... besides shaders being compiled in real time or in the main menu, there's another solution I've seen. The Horizon Zero Dawn PC version initially had a main menu shader compilation step, but in one of their most recent patches, they changed the method. Now, you can load right into the game, and the game will compile all shaders during gameplay, by using background CPU threads, rather than compile the shader when it's being referenced, on the main thread. This avoids stutter and the only drawback is that you may see higher CPU utilization during the first few minutes of gameplay. It's a great innovation and I hope to see more games use it!

[@Darkuni]

That's really damn cool! I didn't run across that in my research. Thanks so much for sharing that!

[@PochisMovies]

Recommend on Reddit and wow this was very informative as I definitely was looking at them in a negative light.

[@Darkuni]

Glad it helped out!

[@N1c2k3]

This is exactly what I was needed to know, Shane. Extremely helpful.

[@TheSaintsGaming]

You’re content is amazing mate, so helpful for a new guy on the steamdeck

[@Darkuni]

Thank you so much, my friend!

[@willfreedan944]

Finally understood this. Thank you!

[@Darkuni]

So glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.

[@Boiler88]

Great stuff as always. Thanks Shane!

[@pedronewtonpascal]

New to steamdeck and this kind of videos really helps me a lot.

[@Darkuni]

My specialty ... be sure to look back at other videos in the STEAM DECK playlist!

[@Vidikron]

Thank you! I just got my Steam Deck a few weeks back and have heard plenty about shaders, but didn’t quite fully understand what they were. Incidentally, I ran across this video search for information about them. Specifically because I started the Street Fighter 6 Demo on my Deck sand the game asked if I wanted to “pre-warm the shaders”. I said yes, but didn’t know what that meant. Is “pre-warming” the game pre-building its own cache?

[@Darkuni]

Correct. Some PC games will build their own shader caches. Most of them however are built on the fly. One of the nice things about the steam deck is that valve pre-compiles them and sends them down with the game. Of course that doesn't work for every game.

[@cassiopeiablu7041]

Great video, great explanation. Thanks !!!

[@HoldMeForever]

Great explanation!

[@Darkuni]

I'm proud of this video. It isn't always easy boiling this crap down :)

[@figmentpez]

You say that the Steam Deck is the only PC that downloads shader pre-caches, but Valve added Shader Pre-Caching to Steam in 2017, over 5 years ago. From the Dec 13, 2017 patch notes, "New feature: Shader Pre-Caching. Whenever possible, depending on hardware and driver support, Steam can download pre-compiled shaders for your specific video card. This reduces load times and in-game stuttering during the first few launches of OpenGL- and Vulkan-based games on supported hardware. This feature may use a small amount of additional bandwidth as Steam uploads and analyzes a shader usage report after each run of the game. The feature can be disabled via a new entry in the Settings dialog." While this feature is underutilized, and not well documented, it does exist, and has existed for quite a few years before the Steam Deck.

[@Darkuni]

You're absolutely right and my wording choice on that was extremely poor. I appreciate being cross-checked on this (and you weren't the only one) :D

[@unfa00]

One minor correction. You say that shaders are executed and then cached. What you mean is that shaders are *compiled* (for a specific gaming system) and then cached. Shaders are executed for every frame. With Fragment Shaders this is once for every rendered pixel and with Vertex Shaders - it's once per mesh vertex. Shaders are shipped with games in a text (human-readable) format (GLSL or HLSL) that needs to be translated to raw binary instructions tailored for a particular GPU.

[@Darkuni]

Thanks for that clarification. This wasn't meant to be a low level look at things. Just trying to get the general idea out. Appreciate the explanation.

[@danpan11]

Extremely useful video. Great explanation! Thanks for this.

[@Darkuni]

I am pleased it helped you!

[@SYLXM]

Incredibly informative.

[@keynotes8114]

7:45 where's the link....?

[@eeeo2196]

I have rtx4080 i9 13900k and m.2 ofc.. would i still benefit from shader cache enabled or it would be faster if i disable it?

[@Darkuni]

I'm not sure I have the knowledge to answer that...

[@eeeo2196]

@@Darkuni thank you though 🙏 .. much appreciated

[@jupitervolcano]

Started re-buying all my games on steam ever since my first experience with the same game, but on another launcher. Storage space be damned, the performance difference is night and day on some games, and I'll never look back. Good on Valve for reeling me in like that 😂

[@jonathont5570]

17 years on steam and never saw a preshader notification until i got the Deck and its taken 1/2 of my 256 gb ssd with it.

[@Darkuni]

PC gamers have the privilege (and curse) of being open architecture. Shaders exist everywhere but seem invisible to consoles and even PC users don't really know about them unless the game won't start until they are preloaded. Look at it this way? Imagine how pissed you would be if you cheapened out and went 64gb?

[@MadaoAU]

You deserve way more subs for this video alone, it’s so hard to find something to explain to people what shaders are. Thank you

[@Darkuni]

Thank you my friend!

[@Teslacoil33]

Excellent and very informative video. Thanks!

[@Darkuni]

Thank you for watching!

[@kyleortiz2248]

Hey great video! Complete shader noob here… question: If the shaders are compiled(assuming into machine code), why can’t this be done before first launch? (Pre compiled during development?) what am I missing here? Does certain hardware just not have the resources to do what that machine code is telling it to do?

[@Darkuni]

Shaders are 100% dependent on two things: hardware configuration and driver. Hardware, obviously, isn't changing in the world of Steam Deck. But the driver? Absolutely. What can also change is the graphics code in the game itself. Any of these three changing instantly invalidates the shader cache. Many games support pre-compiling (as I showed - COD supports it) - but most do not. Some games, like the Last of Us has like a 20-40 MINUTE precompile process. Nobody wants to boot the game and wait 40 minutes to play. This is why we are in a problem state; it used to be that shader precaching took a few minutes. Games now? 20-40 minutes? They know people aren't going to bother - and leave out pre-compilation (see any of the biggest games released in 2023 - NONE of them support it). The Steam Deck made "history" by offering "pre-compiled shaders" for AAA games like Elden Ring. When you download certain games? The shader cache PREBUILT comes with it. But, as I said - caches can be invalidated by driver or code update. Probably why Steam looks to be "constantly" downloading shaders for the same game over and over. But, not every game has it - and I read somewhere that Steam doesn't build the caches themselves, but they are sort of "crowd sourced", meaning DAY 1 of a release may have SOME shader caches - but not all of them - and as more become available over time? You get the updates. Frustrating for some, but a real treat when you consider other PC gamers don't get them.

[@TomboBrewster]

Fantastic explanation. Thank you

[@luckieluuk1654]

wow, so well explained... thanks man!

[@robertlofgren162]

Great explanation, thanks

[@Ludecan]

This is so cool. Thanks for the explanation. One question though. Why are they updated so often? I've seen shader cache downloads happen every 2 or 3 days for games that launched in 2018. Shouldn't we have all shaders cached by now? Does it depend on the driver version or something else?

[@Darkuni]

Driver changes will trigger it. Also, I believe the shaders are community built. So even though the game is 2018? Not enough people on Deck have played it to contribute to the shader cache pool. This is what I was told - but I have no evidence to back that up.

[@Ludecan]

@@Darkuni ahh nice, the community building makes sense. Thanks for sharing!

[@loganeostendorff182]

Thank you so much I like your videos and style of explanation is straight forward and well organized... 😎👌

[@Darkuni]

I appreciate your feedback!

[@fille79]

Great explanation! I don’t own a steam deck but now I know

[@shaunmk]

yes my 64gb is so full of yellow stuff..not a single game on it..

[@deanwilson2804]

A brilliant and well thought out introduction to shader caches. As the Steam Deck is my first foray into PC gaming, this was especially helpful and intuitive. Do you think there will ever be a time when shaders will be automatically deleted once you install a game? Please bear in mind that I ask that out of complete ignorance, as I know basically nothing about PC gaming, as I mentioned before.

[@Darkuni]

Pristine games they should be deleted automatically when you uninstall. But it doesn't seem to be consistent. With non-steam games? You're sort of bucking the system so you have to be the system.

[@deanwilson2804]

@@Darkuni Okay, thankyou.

[@Finnedsgang]

Perfect explanation, hope this channel grows up ! no stupid animations like many new yt channels, just good old tech. Cheers from Italy !

[@Darkuni]

Trying to keep it simple and "earthy" :)

[@shadowscion]

So what is the ultimate difference between Steam downloading shader pre-caches and building those shaders yourself as you play? Is the end result the same? I've never noticed stutters like your Kirby example and I'm not sold on the benefit to these constant (literally daily, seemingly bugged) updates.

[@Darkuni]

Totally depends on the game. Try God of War without shaders. See how that plays. Play Overwatch 2 without shaders - it will be very obvious when you don't have them.

[@shadowscion]

@@Darkuni What happens if you turn pre-caching off, run the game, compile the shaders locally, and come back to the game later? Are they loaded again the way they would be if you had downloaded them?

[@Darkuni]

@@shadowscion the ones that were created yes.

[@shadowscion]

@@Darkuni That's what I wanted to know, thanks. I can see how that would be worse for certain types of games than it would be for others.

[@Darkuni]

@@shadowscion not every game uses/needs shaders. The ones that do? Tend to perform really poorly without them.

[@jamesm2075]

Can anyone please explain to me why I keep getting updates to my shader cache for games that I have already downloaded the shader cache for? Is valve updating the shader cache? If so, then does that mean that the shader cache is incomplete? Are they crowd sourcing updates for the shader cache from steam deck users that compile extra parts of the shader cache as they play?

[@Darkuni]

Shaders are usually invalidated when the GPU driver changes or there are changes to the game. If you play COD? Every NVIDIA update or game update, shaders have to be rebuilt. This is what I've been told - but I have no independent research to prove it. I'm also told that with big AAA titles - in some cases - Valve is able to produce a full set of precompiled shaders prior to release. But, the shaders typically come over time; a base set goes out - then more come. But this is all on a per game basis.

[@wolvrG]

Great video. I have a question though. Does the cache is only applicable for Steam games in Deck or from SteamOS? If I use windows 10 and run game pass games, then does it create cache too? How does it perform? What will be the performance be like for same game running in Steam (SteamOS) vs GamePass/Steam/Native installed (Windows)?

[@Darkuni]

This video has zero to do with Windows. If you're using Windows? This video isn't for you. One of the biggest selling points of SteamOS? Is the fact that it preloads shaders for you. Nothing in Windows will do that for you (unless the game specifically supports preloading shaders). Do a Google search on elden ring SteamOS performance and you'll see exactly why the Steam decks SteamOS is the superior athlete for most of your gaming choices outside of the few anti cheat games.

[@wolvrG]

@@Darkuni Yep! I get the point. And you did a very good explanation. I was just wondering if that is something which Windows has it too. I hate to buy the same game multiple times for different platform.

[@Darkuni]

@@wolvrG then you buy it for steam. And then you can use it on Windows steam as well as Steam deck steamos. I'm not completely clear on that statement...

[@two_motion]

So, my Linux PC has an integrated and dedicated GPU (both AMD). My OS and Steam platform runs on the integrated GPU, while games launch on the dedicated GPU (through PCI port >> motherboard HDMI port). I suspect Steam is downloading the wrong shader caches, which produce artefacts and eventually crashes the game. Has anyone had such an issue?

[@DX88]

Okay I understand what it is now, but why is it constantly updating shaders for old games that I haven't even played in a long time?

[@Darkuni]

Did you watch my video about the "always updating"? It isn't shaders. I would watch that video. It will answer your question.

[@DX88]

@@DarkuniI just did. Very complicated but a little bit clearer now, thanks. They should just do these small updates invisible to the user if you ask me.

[@Darkuni]

@@DX88 Then people would yell at them for not being transparent ... :(

[@DX88]

@@DarkuniAlso true, guess there's no winning in this case.

[@BernardoLeon]

This was a great video but I am still puzzled by the fact that after having downloaded the shader cache it is still downloaded again in subsequent updates, didn't we already had the shader cache downloaded?

[@Darkuni]

Excellent question. I'll do my best to explain it as it was told to me. The version you download may not be complete. Apparently these are "crowd sourced" in some cases (AAA high visibility titles are probably sourced by Valve) and the crowd sourcing can only provide the amount of shaders generated by people that have played the game. So let's say ... Lego 2K Drive ... which came out today ... has some shaders included from people that unlocked the game early for $100. In the last few days, not ALL possible shaders have been cached since they haven't played the WHOLE game. So, what you get today when you download is a "partial shader cache". As more and more people get it? More and more shaders will be sourced and are available for download. So when it "downloads them again" it is really "downloading more of them". That's how I understand it.

[@BernardoLeon]

@@Darkuni Hey, thanks for the prompt and detailed response! it left me wondering though who told you that this is the case? What is the source for this claim? Have valve or any of its developers said this, if so do you have the source? I am not saying I don't believe you but would like to know the source of this explanation, thank you!

[@Darkuni]

@@BernardoLeon This is "gleaned" information from totally unreliable sources. Mostly Reddit. It is easy enough to test on your own. Everytime shaders download for a given game? Record the size. Is it bigger than it was last time? Probably accurate. If not? then it is probably BS.

[@코스믹-b3d]

If the shader cache is only on the SSD, will there be no performance difference even if I install the game on an SD card? I've read that for some games like Horizon and Cyberpunk, installing them on an SD card can cause stuttering, so I'm concerned.

[@Darkuni]

It all depends on the SD card, to be honest. A good, quality A2 card? The game should run just as well regardless - as long as the shaders are on the fastest drive possible.

[@Geoff_the_Chum]

So getting a larger memory console is not an issue. The question becomes, how do we download games to the SD card yet keep the shaders on the internal storage of the steam deck? It would harsh to download the games (+shader) to the internal storage then move everything to the SD card.

[@Darkuni]

You just set the external storage as your default download location. Games files will go there, proton compatibility and shaders default to internal... It's what we got....

[@bitwolfy]

So, at least on my desktop, steam is no longer using the shadercache folder for me, in fact a new install doesn't even *have* the folder. It's just placing the DXVK and VKD3D caches with the exe's themselves, which is the default behavour with non steam DXVK games. Wonder if this was done to address people complaining their shaders were always on the internal drive.

[@Darkuni]

Really? I'll have to take a closer look...

[@bitwolfy]

@@Darkuni Theres a chance it could have changed so that only downloaded shaders go there, and generated ones stay in the game folder? Its just up until now ive never seen DXVK stuff in the games folders.

[@nickvosni8543]

So why does the stream deck have to update these shader caches every so often? I doubt they change over time.

[@Darkuni]

This isn't unique to the Deck. Shaders are built based on a couple things. The GPU+drivers and the program's usage of shaders. If either the program code, the GPU or the drivers for it change - then the shaders are considered depreciated and must be refreshed.

[@nickvosni8543]

@@Darkuni but I feel like it happens too often; the GPU doesn't change, the drivers for it don't change unless you update the system and the game also might not have updated, yet the deck needs to redownload the shader every 2-4 days. I've had the deck for a week and the game "A hat in time" has had to update the shaders at least 3 times

[@Darkuni]

@@nickvosni8543 I'm not 100% positive, but here is how I understand it. SOME GAMES do not have "complete shaders" at a given time. As the community plays a game, more shader caches are build and contribute to the overall shader cache. Those updates need to come down. A Hat In Time also has a ton of transcoded videos too, as I hear. For what it is worth, most people don't have that issue. So it is a game by game (hence case by case) basis.

[@saltydog1984]

I still have questions, what happens when you run out of space on your internal storage and you wish to install another game, will it just not download the shader cache? And why does the shader cache need to be redownloaded every time I swap out an SD card?

[@Darkuni]

If you run out of space, your Deck won't boot anymore. Not sure why shaders redownload. Might send a ticket to Valve..

[@kotenus.property]

speaking of MicroSD, you showed on KDiskmark that read speed on MicroSD is around 90ish. so does it confirm that the best MicroSD for SD is A1? because lots of info out there says A2 is better. but seing this like confirms that SD read speed is really capped at 100

[@Darkuni]

I have an SD video coming soon...

[@johnfrankster3244]

Idk if i like this or not tbh. Every time i boot up my deck games are downloading cache updates, im starting to question if its the same ones. Ive had A hat in Time on their over a month, after the last update 7.6gb shader cache update? Idk how tf that is even possible.

[@Darkuni]

Some people are saying there is a glitch where they are getting daily downloads whether the cache needs it or not. I haven't seen that behavior myself; but Reddit is alive with people questioning WHY?!

[@angeluxgaminguploads5352]

I am here waiting for my steam deck while it processes the shaders for a game. It's at 86% and has taken about 15 minutes now. On another windows handheld the same game would be running once I hit the play button. People need to know these things.

[@Darkuni]

@@angeluxgaminguploads5352 Running ... poorly I would guess. I know it sucks - fortunately the industry is getting away from it. Spiderman does some pretty interesting magic.

[@Wrestlingmann]

So whats with the same game download shaders literally every single day. Im on a constant download loop. Whats going on?

[@Darkuni]

It is really hard to say. Some say they are experiencing this. I have never had that problem. Shaders invalidate every time there is a driver update and can invalidate every time the game updates. Some say that shaders are community driven and you don't ever get them "all at once" rather they trickle down over time as people play the game and contribute. I can't prove any of this, because I cannot recreate it. :(

[@cheesedish6018]

Thanks for the explanation.

[@Ilya_Marshal]

It’s amazing video! Thank you and take care too

[@AlastairGames]

wow you have Faerie Solitaire!

[@TheDragonfriday]

I was getting annoyed everytime I turn on my steam deck, always new shade to download, thanks to this video I understand what it is

[@Darkuni]

Glad to have helped!

[@AkotosiTy]

So is it safe to delete shader cache?

[@Darkuni]

Sure if you want to lose performance. Just understand it's going to come back at some point.

[@NexXxus86]

my shader cache folder is 60 GB in size .... let alone A Hat in Time takes up 12GB of shader cache

[@Darkuni]

Transcoded videos I believe.

[@filcuk]

Great informative video 👍

[@RL-fj9yb]

I understand what you talk about ,what I dont understand is why steamdeck needs to download shader again and again almost everyday,it should be a one time job doesnt it?

[@Darkuni]

Shaders can only be built when someone actually plays that part of the game. So let's say we have a Day 1 release of a 10 level game. Someone at valve probably played level 1 long enough to verify the game is steam deck compatible. That generated shaders for Level 1. Valve took those and queued those up to be sent to anyone when they downloaded the game. Level 1. Over time, more people play and the shaders are further built; now level 2 and level 3 are available. Those are downloaded to you later when they are available. Then eventually? Level 4 .. level 5 ... more downloads to you. Level 6, level 7 - more downloads. NEW VIDEO DRIVER COMES OUT ... shaders are null and void ... let's start over. WHAT? NEW GAME VERSION COMES OUT? Shaders are null and void. Shaders would only be a one and done if: 1) they were all available at once ... 2) We never got a video driver update ... 3) the game never got updated. Hopefully that helps.

[@RL-fj9yb]

​@@Darkuni make sense,the game update almost everyday is blakmyth wukong,which I think should be more than enough shader cache for steamdeck out there, and even me myself had play it on steamdeck for quiet some time, so maybe the steamos's patch updated the video driver. thx for the answer

[@Darkuni]

@@RL-fj9yb Especially new games. SteamOS upgrade did indeed include driver updates. Remember a GAME update (however small) will trigger the shaders needing to be redone.

[@captainrick4513]

Would it be possible to just temporarily move and store shader caches on external storage drives, and simply keep/move the ones you're going to be specifically using on games you're currently playing? Games you more commonly play can stay on, but if you're like me, and play a specific game for a good while, would it make sense to just cut/paste shader caches for the current games you're playing?

[@Darkuni]

You would have to uninstall the game too I think otherwise the os would download them again and again...

[@captainrick4513]

@@Darkuni Yeah, that would make sense. Thanks. I've already been doing that for games already, I only keep certain small games, and games I constantly play installed, meanwhile, for example the Arkham series, I'd switch between one at a time. And emulated games, you wouldn't have to bother with, since the emulator is a non-steam game exe added.

[@philipbellingham6483]

What's the application you use at 7:21?

[@Darkuni]

Disk Usage Analyzer. I installed from Discover, but people report it isn't there anymore? WTF? Anyway, flatpack it... flathub.org/apps/details/org.gnome.baobab

[@philipbellingham6483]

@@Darkuni yeah I looked and it isn't there, thanks!

[@Darkuni]

@@philipbellingham6483 Did you get the flatpack working?

[@philipbellingham6483]

@@Darkuni yeah your link worked, cheers!

[@xiaovideogamer]

steam shader cache or nvidia shader cache better?

[@Darkuni]

Shaders are shaders and caches are caches. They're specific to the hardware the software drivers and sometimes the rendering mechanisms. Totally different things what you're describing.

[@gambaownsus]

tldr that means its better to have a better SSD (256gb) instead of buyying the 64gb? or buyy 64gb and swap it for a 1tb one for example but having your game as much as in the internal (for emulator) is recmmended instead of sd card right?

[@Darkuni]

I wouldn't personally own anything less than a 256 and have 512GB to 1TB as my MicroSD...

[@johnathonrhoades3712]

Are you aware of any way to save or preserve the cache through an sdcard swap? I set mine up with single player games on one card, and multiplayer on the other, and every time I swap cards I have to redeownload the cache for all installed titles.

[@Darkuni]

Hmmm.... the shader cache pointers must be blown away ... the shader cache has no visibility to the SD cards, but perhaps Steam has some pointers to keep track of it. I find this interesting - but alas, don't have a solution :(

[@crisvok]

Damn… great video thank you

[@Darkuni]

My pleasure!

[@Shadybiglpac]

Good video

[@sturange]

While I do agree that it is nice that they get stored on a faster drive, it isn't something to be praised considering most people getting the steam deck will not casually know this or know of a way to get rid of it since there isn't a straight forward way to do so outside of other programs, desktop mode, and having knowledge of your game ID numbers. This factor alone makes the 64gb model a instant problem for a lot of users and there should be a way to manage shaders on your device through a preinstalled program that is user friendly.

[@Darkuni]

I rag on Valve all the time about even offering a 64GB SKU - and the fact that they didn't bother to disclose any of this in advance. There should have never been a 64GB unit out there - it should have started with 256GB IMHO. The user is free to shut off shader caches if they want to. Nothing stopping anyone other than the dramatic hit to performance that anything outside of indie games (which don't have shader caches anyway, typically). People don't want to play God of War as a stuttering mess :)

[@EmergencyChannel]

I don't think it's that big of a issue, use internal 64gb for shaders and proton and delete shaders as you switch to new games on your SD card. Most people will only have a couple dozen games on a SD card at a time anyway, maybe 2 triple A 3D games and the rest 2D or low poly indie games.

[@Darkuni]

That MAY be the case. But based on the posts on Reddit? People buy 1TB cards and install a LOT of games. BTW, this video doesn't cover "cached video transcodings" where Steam takes game video that the Deck cannot play and transcodes them on the Steam servers and sends the altered versions to your Deck. I imagine a cut scene heavy game could suck down a lot of space.

[@MrsBlaileen1]

For PS3 emulation, do the shaders get used for other games or are they simply game specific?

[@Darkuni]

Shaders are all game specific as far as I know ...

[@MrsBlaileen1]

@@Darkuni Thanks. Trying to figure out how to delete all the game data, like PPU modules, after I’m done with it. Right click and clear caches or just delete the dev_hdd1 folder contents?

[@Darkuni]

@@MrsBlaileen1 I'm not going to lie PS3 is not my go to emulation platform. But I'll do some research maybe I'll get back to you here

[@MrsBlaileen1]

@@Darkuni Thanks! I’ve just been playing Shadows of the Damned on my Steam Deck so far and it’s been nearly a flawless experience.

[@Darkuni]

@@MrsBlaileen1 that's great. PS3 seems pretty hit and miss but when it hits? Awesome.

[@AntonioRivera28]

but why does the steam deck require me to download them again and again every single time i turn the system on? this has become a daily problem since i got it and its pretty annoying

[@Darkuni]

Not sure. I can tell you that it doesn't happen to everyone. Never happens to me. Those shaders are community driven. They literally could be changing every day. My guess is - we don't play the same games or there is a glitch in your set up... Beta or stable?

[@AntonioRivera28]

@@Darkuni you showed the yellow in the internal being all shaders. i dont have any games on my internal. but i have 77gb of shaders installed now... for 2 512gb sd cards of games. it seems to just keep redownloading new ones and not replacing the old ones... over and over every time the device is turned off and back on like right now its redownloading shaders for some. resident evil revelations, a 9gb game is downloading 3gb MORE shaders right now for it... with every other game installed lined up for even more shader updates. this is unsustainable and i use stable

[@Darkuni]

@@AntonioRivera28 Might be worth a trip to Beta, my dude. Remember, it isn't "just shaders" -- it is also transcoded movies that Linux can't play natively.

[@AntonioRivera28]

@@Darkuni ya, im probably going to have to do that. this has just been a headache

[@Darkuni]

@@AntonioRivera28 If you come up with something that stops it, come back and let us know here.

[@dragoondirk]

This has me thinking I should at least get the 256 then.

[@Darkuni]

I do not recommend the 64 GB SKU for anyone who doesn't immediately want to open it up and replace the internal drive with something bigger.

[@dragoondirk]

@@Darkuni I was going to buy a big micro SD anyway and I'm not sure about the 512 screen. You think the 256 is a good option? Also, I forgot to mention earlier but thank you for the video. Very well made and informative.

[@Darkuni]

@@dragoondirk The 512GB has had some bubbling issues behind the screen. Honestly, the 256GB seems to be the sweet spot with price and space.

[@84jesterx]

But why does something like Disco Elysium, a non online single player focused game CONSTANTLY download one every time I remotely leave an active online connection, or simply wake my steam deck from sleep? It's 850+mb EVERY SINGLE TIME I do this. It's severely dumb.

[@Darkuni]

Thing is, that behavior isn't universal. This doesn't happen to me. Some people (I see maybe 1-2 posts a month on Reddit claiming it) seem to have this behavior -- the rest of us don't. So we need to know what is different about you from ME. It could just be that the games you have (that I do not) are actually getting CONSTANT updates (however small) to shader caches as the community generates them. They may LOOK identical every day, but they really may not be.

[@patrickhawthorneLS]

I have wondered why emulators dont apply a cheat to a game and do a godmode 15 min flyby or something like that

[@TheRealAmericanMan]

Yes it is “convenient” in some ways but the inability to delete these shaders and the way they can fill the entire internal drive very easily really sucks

[@GG-ou7it]

Just got my deck a few weeks ago and it’s great but I’m shocked there has been no updates to easily delete the shaders or have them uninstall with games you are done with 😢

[@BreezyKun]

I get why they're necessary, but its still a bit ridiculous in the case of some games; A Hat in Time is a 11.1GB game, and its got 10.1gb in shaders. With a 26gb shader cache download queued up right now. W h y ?

[@Darkuni]

The biggest set of shaders I've heard of is 3 GB for borderlands 3. Something might not quite be right over there.

[@BreezyKun]

@@Darkuni Meant 26 MB, not gb, but I've compared against PC and these file sizes are absurdly larger than those for the same game.

[@Darkuni]

@@BreezyKun Don't forget, transcoded videos come down with shader caches too. Videos that cannot be played on Steam on Linux get transcoded and downloaded for playback. These could also contribute to large storage demands.

[@knockedgoose4206]

I appreciate the explanation, but I'm disappointed by the lack of solutions to this issue. I've only installed 5 games and my internal storage has over 20GB of "other" installed. That's a whole ass game! Honestly I wish there was at least an option in game mode to delete shaders for certain games temporarily. Then when I travel, I can pick a few games, and install those shaders, which will only be an inconvenience for a few minutes. I could probably even install them of my phones hotspot or a planes wifi and have my game ready in a couple minutes.

[@Darkuni]

You have some options available. First, you can turn off shaders altogether - not recommended of course. Second, you can delete shaders you aren't using at that moment using Shader Cache Killer (see my video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmLbZa1vfbGFqJY -- of course, Steam may try to reacquire them in an update later on. You may have to set the game to not update at all. Or perhaps you shut off shaders, kill the shader caches, then turn it back on when you're ready to restore those games for use. What really sucks about all of this is that Valve actually sold a 64GB sku of the Steam Deck without disclosing this information. Most people feel they can get the 64GB unit and just throw SD cards at it - which obviously is the same as putting a 2TB hard drive on a Windows PC that has a 32GB C: drive that is full. You can install on D: but a lot of stuff ends up on C: no matter what. Same thing here. And with 46GB out of the box? A game like Hat In Time taking 8GB of space (!) for a single game in caches and transcoded videos??? Messy. They should have started with 256GB and gone up from there ... IMHO of course.

[@knockedgoose4206]

@@Darkuni I saw the cache killer video. Everybody who owns a 64gb model should watch your video on that. You're the best!

[@Darkuni]

@@knockedgoose4206 Thank you!

[@danielkeller6610]

So why doesn't the game just come with all the shaders computed already?... This was and still is my question.

[@Darkuni]

On steam deck ... Valve provides shaders for many Steam games. That's easily one of the best features of the handheld. Non-steam games? Games from non steam lockers? Many Steam games even - don't have them. So they have to be built over time as you play. Some games preload them on first run.

[@Ficmon]

Nice

[@olewornhat]

Same

[@gambaownsus]

I preordered the 256gb because of your video. I was thinking 64gb+1tb SD card was enough / or the cheap solution. I didn't go for 512 because of the anti glare

[@Darkuni]

You won't be disappointed. The shader cache fills so much faster than you think it will ...

[@gambaownsus]

@@Darkuni thanks, it's almost criminal they are putting a 64gb.. who gave them the green check to put that knowing all that...

[@Darkuni]

@@gambaownsus I suspect the idea was that most people weren't going to shove their whole Steam library on a giant SD card. They probably figured people would have a dozen or so games installed and that would make the 64GB version just fine. For some reasons, though ... people want to shove 800 games on this thing and I just don't think that's the way Valve intended the device to be used. Shrug. Just speculating of course.

[@exzander]

@@Darkuni A quick question if you don't mind - if you uninstall/delete a game (from a micro SD card), will the shaders that are installed in the internal memory also be deleted? I mean, is simply deleting games when you want space like any other gaming device the simple solution to this?

[@Darkuni]

@@exzander Depends. I've seen both. When you uninstall something, go to the gear->Developer->Delete Proton Files. That MAY clear them out. I haven't tested this though.

[@curvedinfinity]

The explanation is incomplete. Shader compilation is an unnecessary step that developers use to make it so they can write one shader in a generic for multiple graphics API targets. The targets are typically now a days: glsl for vulcan/opengl (linux, windows, osx, ios, android), hlsl for directx (windows, xbox), and PSSL for playstation. The various shader languages have completely different syntax and functionality, so it would take a ton of work to keep all the shaders ported and normalized manually. What they did instead was create generic shader languages, write their shaders in those languages instead, and then run them through a compiler at runtime for whatever target the user is using. Plenty of games don't have a "compiling shaders" step because the devs do it prior to shipping their release and package the compiled shaders with the rest of the game. TLDR: compiling shaders is lazy dummy devs who decided not to spare users the wait because its easier

[@Darkuni]

Appreciate that detailed addition. But I thought shaders were GPU dependent which is why you can't have them pre-compiled for PC or more open platforms versus a console or handheld.

[@懶大蟲]

they shoud tell us before we buy 64G steam deck

[@Darkuni]

I 100% agree and wrote a WALL of text about it on Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/17rmgp6/comment/k8osksf/

[@azzart979]

I have had my Shader Cache folder residing on the sd card for at least a couple months now and I had zero problems of stuttering unlike what's shown in that video. Even with God of War. 🤷🏻‍♂️