STEEL SHOT FOR UPLAND HUNTING

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

I’ve watched this video for the third time. I’ve been a resident in California and have hunted upland every single year for the past 43 years. I also hunt upland almost every year in Arizona, Texas and Louisiana. I’ve been hunting waterfowl in California (and Louisiana) for at least 35 years and have used steel on ducks since 1991 when it was mandated nationally. That all being said, this video is the absolute BEST advice video I have ever seen about the subject. Nothing comes close as to the information given in this video, regarding the use of steel, chokes and upland game! Very impressed. This channel is fantastic.

[@romeoalphafoxtrot9517]

Excellent video! I'm a dove and quail hunter in the Desert of Arizona. Last season on a a whim, I decided to try some 12ga Kent Steel Dove #6. For dove, over the years, I had been using cheap lead target loads #7 1/2 with a modified choke with not that great of results over the years. I noticed a big difference right away with the steel shot. It friggin stoned the birds right now! I was so impressed! Right then I decided to use steel on doves from now on. I decided to try the #6 steel upland ammo on the Gambles Quail in October. Same results as the dove! It absolutely stoned those Quail! WOW! I'm planning to try my 20ga with some Federal #6 Upland Steel this year.

[@YouWillPay1wayoranother]

Probably the best and informative video of patterning ive watched! Thank you!

[@bmoorear]

Thanks for making these video's. We kinda learned the hard way back in 2019 going lead free for dove. It seems most everything on the shelf was 7 or 7 1/2 steel and we were not too happy with it. We had a noticeable difference with 6's, even with my hand loaded shells only doing 1280fps we were dropping doves and cottontails at upland distances. I did not know until recently about steel patterning tighter, we have basically moved to IC and light mod chokes only and I think I will be adding skeet chokes to our line up for kicking up quail.

[@patricktravis8996]

Thank you for what you do my friend. I really enjoyed your videos and have learn to use steel now for upland hunting.

[@lancevoorhees7318]

I liked your video, I’ve shot trap, skeet, and sporting clays all with lead! I shot steel, bismuth, tungsten at waterfowl for thirty or more years! I’ve read Bob Bristers the Art and science of shotgunning! Your conclusions are good, Bob-used sheets on clothes line multiple shots to see where the gun patterned! It worked for him! I used multiple one shot per paper like you did, and found that some loads in lead were ragged even when everything was the same with bigger shot sizes,and the opposite with smaller shot sizes, because of more pellets meant greater density! Yes steel is a different, I went with more open-chokes and found my favorite load was 3” steel in no. 2 for ducks, and larger for geese! Your conclusions are good, I learned from you, my own experience, and Bristers book! Thanks a lot!

[@jeanmorin3247]

That was very informative. Thank you from Canada.

[@joshb.6166]

Loved steel since I made the switch away from toxic/lead ammo. Steel 2s and 3s at 1400fps for ducks and pheasant all year. Steel 6s for grouse, woodcock, and doves. Never felt short gunned or range was limited with either of those given the game. Wont ever go back!

[@cleaner6666]

best hunting channel 👍

[@markdidier5896]

Very informative. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this> Really eye opening>

[@LeotheBarbarian]

I just patterned that same Kent fasteel #5 7/8 oz load in my 20GA today, it's really helpful to have something to compare it to! My little RIA single shot is fixed choke, good thing it throws a decent pattern with this load, I'm getting excited ti go after mountain quail!

[@blor6507]

Holy shit I enjoyed this more than I thought. I love the scientific approach.

[@joshwilcox8941]

Love your vids, Very informative live and cover key topics other channels don't. You look like a Bond villain in this vid. Just missing a cat!

[@ejesoriginal]

I just stumbled onto this video and I want to thank you for making it. NOBODY talks about this, and it drives me nuts. More and more of my land is being made non-toxic only, and I'm not sure I am totally against it. Steel makes more sense than lead if you eat what you shoot, I just wish it wasn't more expensive. In my gun, #7 steel with a skeet choke works well for dove. Again, thank you.

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

I've never tried steel for upland birds. I used to hunt pheasant in Kansas every year and with lead I had some 3 inch loads of number 6 shot that worked well. Take care and good luck the rest of the hunting season DD.

[@mrsmith9079]

Seems a bit like overkill to me. You'd probably be better off with an ounce of 7.5's for walked-up shooting.

[@MrJVote]

Thanks for the video. I've been thinking of switching to non-toxic when I get back to the US.

[@wenzelschmolke9427]

best steel shot advice seen until today!

[@johngeddes7894]

In the late ‘70s or early ‘80s, I went with 2 buddies to the Tule Lake refuge over thanksgiving for pheasant and geese. The rangers tried to talk us into using this brand new steel shot, and you got to hunt the best blinds if you did but we were stubborn for the first 3 days. Finally, we decided to give steel shot a try on Sunday, when temps dropped to -5 degrees F. I was missing everything but my buddy watched real close and yelled at me to quit leading the geese. After that, 3 quick shots and a limit of 3 dark geese. I still had 3 snow geese to get. My first snow was easy, but after that, the only snows I could locate were mixed with Speckle Belly geese. I picked 2 snows out of mainly dark geese and felt like an ace all these years until you nailed it. My pattern tightened up and that’s why me and my 870 were on fire. Learn something every day.

[@garyfensler2501]

I don't believe a single word. I am born and raised in Tulelake (one word). Steel shotguns shells were unheard of in the late 70's or early 80's in the Klamath Basin. There is also no such thing of Rangers on the refuge system, maybe game wardens. Game Wardens did offer best blinds for using steel shot. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to gain by being untruthful.

[@garyfensler2501]

Correction: Game Wardens did NOT offer blinds for using steel shot, as spaced blinds were not available at this time.

[@johngeddes7894]

Evidently you weren’t hunting that Thanksgiving werkend when we DID most certainly have blinds issued to us for geese, in the fields, not near any water. Sheepy Ridge was right in plain sight, but the Sunday we hunted the fog rolled in and I called birds right into our blinds. What would I have to gain by making this up? Next, you’ll tell me we never stayed in the nearby town of Newll, at the Clyde Hotel; all since have been bulldozed. Piss off knowitall. You don’t know shit, nor do you control anything. You must be bored in your mother’s basement to troll my story, it isn’t THAT exciting, but a great memory nonetheless. Piss off.

[@davidmalone4017]

So much great info--thanks so much!!!!

[@Blackpanther_risen]

Yup I totally agree w/ u that when patterning a shot gun, u should definitely use a rest/bench. Like sighting in a rifle, it eliminates inconsistency

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Exactly. Watching the youtube experts pattern shotguns off-hand, then blaming their poor pattern on "human error", makes no sense. This ridiculousness stems from confusion between "patterning" a shotgun, and checking shotgun "fit". When "fitting" a shotgun for wingshooting, it should be done from a natural standing position.

[@dads2006gt]

#5 Kent teal steel works great for Pheasant. Had to many get away with #6 fastlead.

[@jstokes861]

Thanks for the info and detail.

[@hntnnut]

When I saw this coming and bought 40 boxes of bismuth for my 28 ga. when cabelas had them on sale and you could still order ammo through the mail. The choke tubes specifically state no steel so I was stuck with the bismuth.

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Modern bismuth loads are actually pretty good IMO. Not the brittle shot that would fall apart before it left the barrel, like we used in the past.

[@ktkawaguchi]

Dont like messing with my press so i been making 2.75 inch 12g rounds with recipes that come with Precision's B&P 1 ounce and 13/16 ounce wads. Go 1 ounce for speeds you mention. Having said that, I've had great luck with the 13/16 loads going faster than your optimum speed. I know this is about upland game, but I choke tighter with the 13/16 ounce loads with waterfowl size pellets to keep the density thick enough. Precision's Lightning Steel concept gets you fast steel loads with only Fed209a, Alliant Steel, and 2 wads. The 1 ounce wads come with more variety in the recipes though. Just find what works for you in restrictive states like Cali. Dont ever give up and keep the heritage alive! THANKS FOR THE CONTENT!

[@nathanhileman3848]

This is a fantastic video! So thorough! One question though - why don't you reload your own shells? You would LOVE tweaking your powder charges and amount of shot to get the perfect pattern!

[@rsvp2rip570]

I've had the opportunity to hunt at a private club twice in Illinois that requires non-toxic number 5 or smaller for Chukkar and Pheasant. They hand out Kent Upland Fasteel #5. I never had a problem with its ability to cleanly kill pen raised birds over flushing dogs where shots are close. I just cut open a shell that was left in my vest and while they had more than advertised payload by 8 pellets, and the weight and diameter of shot was very consistent, the number 5 shot measured 0.11" and weighed 1.5 grains. That's #6 shot in my book. Hard to see an increase in killing power comparing #5 vs #6 when the different shells have the same thing. Of course the next batch may have different sized shot and I didn't have a #6 Fasteel to compare to, but it seems that bigger ammo companies are always looking to stick it to their consumers somewhere, be it exaggerated velocities, underweight charges, or in this case undersized pellets.

[@ericc3327]

Most of my upland guns are no steel, so I’ve stuck with bismuth in the past. I do have a few that I could use steel though, thanks for the info!

[@WillyK51]

If modern shotshells use plastic Wads, why not use steel in older guns?

[@WillyK51]

Once the load exits the shell casing, it will loosen it's compactnes and plastic wrapped should slide trough the choke without harming it ?

[@ericc3327]

@@WillyK51 oh it should, and 99.9% of the time it's no problem, especially in an open choked gun. For large shot (2 or bigger) you have to worry a little about bridging, but I'm not too stressed. But at the same time, I have a 120 year old gun that I like for pheasant and grouse. I love that gun. Steel shot gets nowhere near it because I'm paranoid.

[@WillyK51]

@@ericc3327 My son in law, an active soldier is also Eric, Right now I have no need to use steel, and the only 12 Ga Shotgun I own is a Browning Superposed from the 1970's IC and Mod 26 " , no interchageable chokes, yet I looked into having them installed (Brilley) when they first came out, To thin to machine, A lifetime of handloading got me to extend the 30 yds max range to about 45 yds. Had to make an upland shotgun a do it all .👍

[@ericc3327]

@@WillyK51 thanks to your son for his service. With a nice gun like a superposed, I would personally not run steel. You could probably get away with small shot sizes, but you run the risk of scoring the barrels. With larger shot sizes, because steel does not compress like lead, you could potentially bulge the barrels which would be a great shame. Fortunately bismuth is available, and it works beautifully for upland birds. I’ve used #5 for pheasants, and would be comfortable with #6s. Not cheap, but there is some reasonably priced stuff available or you can order shot from a company like rotometals and load your own.

[@adamnajera1297]

Thank you. I'm looking for a good load for quail and dove.

[@outdoorswithroostercurrie6984]

Well done. I’ve found that when hunting Doves in an area where Steel shot is required #7 steel shot in an Imp. Cylinder is absolutely devastating on Doves. I get a lot more pellets on target than with lead. I don’t feel hindered at all by using #7 steel.

[@paulsimmons5726]

I doubt if Alabama will ever ditch lead ammo but this was a great video, just in case. The only folks in this state who care about the environment are the hunters and farmers. Our politicians are concerned about what gets them re-elected and environmental concerns are never on that list of issues!

[@chrisrogers4594]

DD, I've read that a side-benefit of steel shot is being able to use a high-powered magnet to search for shot in the meat. Have you any experience with that? edit: Also, from what you've said about chukar and pheasant, I estimate that #4 might be a good shot size for a large grouse like blue/sooty. Would you agree? Thanks!

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

I do not have any experience with that.

[@YellowHammer26]

Thanks DD, that was a lot of information that I didn't know. 👍👍

[@godoit3795]

I've been shooting #4 steel 3" for upland game since 2001. Love it never had any problems killing birds or rabbits. I bought 2 cases of super x on sale in 2001, not sure if the quality was different, its put a heck of a lot of food on the table.

[@briankopp1369]

I only use steel shot for shooting dove and snipe because when I bring them home I feed them to my kids and I'm not good at finding 7 shot pellets every time my kids will chew up and swallow a lead pellet brother will bite a steel pellet and spit it out or swallow it and poop it out tomorrow with no ill effect

[@josephmarciano2584]

I was an "Ammo-Zombie" and missed the Fall CA Quail season because I started looking for ammo in August. Never Again! Availability is, of course, a big issue, but any advice on Quail using 12 GA #6 loads. What if I can only get 3-inch? Should I step down to # 7 or 7 1/2 shot?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

3" loads are way overkill for quail. #7's steel works, but you will experience a lot of cripples.

[@jake9705]

11:10 -- During your quail autopsy you didn't mention how far you shot that quail. Was it 5 yards or 25 yards? Hard to evaluate until we know that.

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

About 20 yards. Much more damage than #6 steel at 1400fps does.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

I like #6 faststeel for quail. With chukar if I can’t find #6, I’ll look for 3” #5 steel. But that’s even harder to find than 2 3/4.” I’ve also like #4 steel for pheasant.

[@giovannicalignano7707]

Hi, a question. But for shots attracting at 40 yards towards not too hard animals what size of steel pellets and which choke should be used?Since with the same chokes but from different manufacturers the result changes, but above all since with steel you have to use 3 maximum 4 chokes C IC LM M is it better to use a semi-automatic or over-and-under shotgun? Thanks

[@jaynewmeyer6020]

Over the last ten years of duck hunting and a few times upland where steel is required I have noticed that after shooting keep your eyes on the bird till out of sight. Been seeing a lot of duck and pheasant flying for up to three hundred yards and then just falling dead. What used to fall dead is now flying till it bleeds out, I think? Even the harder lead will do this also. No feathers or rocking the bird and looks like a plain miss. Maybe punching through with no shock and damage. Watch what you shoot at for as long as possible

[@jackbuendgen389]

#4 steel is my favorite for pheasant with an improved cylinder choke. Seems to anchor them better than #5's.

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

That's my favorite combo as well

[@jackbuendgen389]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 HA! My gun likes Carlson chokes to 😆

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

@@jackbuendgen389 Those cheap Carlson's chokes seem to always out-pattern chokes that cost twice as much.

[@montanamountainmen6104]

I've used steel shot since it was mandated for waterfowl since '91. After decades of use I still dislike it. I've used every shot size from T to #6 , settling on #2 for most uses for ducks and geese. I found it works but thats about it. Bismuth works better and if you use older shotguns steel will destroy the softer steel barrels and chokes. My state still allows lead for upland hunting and that allows me to use my Fox SxS 16 ga and my 1899 English SxS exposed hammer shot gun.

[@tylergordon696]

I wish they would make more non toxic shot im 410 and 16 ga. I can roll my own, but components are so hard to get right now.

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Yep, I haven't hunted with my 28 in years.

[@tylergordon696]

My goto upland gun these days is my win 9410. Get a bunch of funny looks from people. Even had a few game wardens come after me thinking I was shooting a centerfire rifle at birds.

[@dennisvandergriff7757]

Boss shotshells, they make both gauges 410 and 16

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

@@dennisvandergriff7757 Only problem is that they are almost impossible to get and are way too expensive for dove and quail.

[@philipfreeman72]

Ever try the fed dual size steel ?

[@jake9705]

24:39 -- Hey what desktop gun vise is that? Looks useful.

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Not a gun vise. It's a Bald Eagle Triangle shooting rest. www.grizzly.com/products/bald-eagle-triangle-plain-rest-aluminum/be1128

[@davidbodjanac7566]

Desert Dog, So I purchased a S&W 1000 12 gauge 2 3/4, id like to use it for Turkey hunting (in California) how ever I cannot find Turkey shot shells in the 2 3/4. I reached out to Federal and the respond was they don't make turkey shell for the 2 3/4 12 gauge. They suggested to use # 4 shot that is available. What are your thoughts on Fasteel 2.0 #4 non-toxic shells?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

I hate steel for turkeys. Go with TSS if you can find it, or Hevi Magnum blend, or maybe bismuth. I have a hard time bringing down ducks with #4 2 3/4" steel. I have always used 3" shells for turkey, so I don't have experience with 2 3/4" on gobblers.

[@davidbodjanac7566]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Thank you for the quick response. The problem with TSS and Hevi is they dont make them in 2 3/4 12 gauge.

[@davidbodjanac7566]

I just found some bismuth. Thanks

[@lifewithdoberman1701]

I use 7-1/2 for pheasant hunting works well but for quail it doesn’t work at all I don’t get that quail is lot smaller then pheasant. I find good spot for quail hunting when i was deer hunting, but it will de close range shooting too quail what choke and load i use steel and lead ?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

7.5 steel shot is WAY too light for Pheasant. Borderline unethical IMO.

[@kitbruttig1995]

HI DD. Do you have any experience with Boss shells? They have both waterfowl and upland non tox loads. The price is very reasonable, about a $1.90 a shell. That includes shipping. Love to hear your opinion. 🤞

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

I'm using all Boss shotshells for wing shooting this year (Doves, ducks, quail, and pheasant) in various different sizes and calibers. I'll do a review video at the end of the season. Lots of pros and cons so far.

[@Imragnar1]

Pheasant number 3

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

That's a great load for pressured wild birds in open country. 3" #4 loads are great for closer birds in heavy cover with a more open choke. Both work great in my experience. If you're a crappy shot, don't pattern your gun, or have a poor-fitting gun; nothing matters.

[@luvtahandload7692]

Nice, thanks for that, Dog! Makes me want to try some upland steel even though my state doesn't mandate it. I might want to revisit my book on shotgunning by Bob Brister as well.

[@daveybernard1056]

Your dentist WANTS you to bite down on steel shot. Those boat payments aren't gonna make themselves.

[@luvtahandload7692]

@@daveybernard1056 agree 100%

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

@@daveybernard1056 I get every bit of steel shot out - so never had an issue. It's a lot easier to pick out when using #5 and #4 shot. I tried to do the same with lead, but that #8 shot was hard to find! lol.

[@frechwieoskar8052]

I went for good with #3 steel shot for ducks..#5 works too but less lethal. We are forced legally to use non toxic shot. Lead kills better though. Tungsten ist better, but no 20gauge ammo available in Germany

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

#5 steel for ducks is too light my friend, unless you’re hunting over decoys really close. #2 steel performs equivalently to #4 lead and is the optimal duck load. #3 steel is equivalent to performance of #5 lead. Also, with steel you probably already know that if you used a full choke for lead, go down two choke sizes to “modified” (“1/2 choke” in the U.K) when shooting steel. Anything tighter than “modified” choke with steel and it causes serious pattern issues and may also damage your gun.

[@mackellyman5642]

DD, since steel doesn't deform is the length is the shot string as long?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Shot strings with steel shot are generally about half the length of lead shot.

[@mackellyman5642]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Wanted to comment that shooting a shotgun off-hand to pattern a shotgun is extremely difficult to get your timing/trigger/shot release lined up with the aiming spot. Seems Hunting shotguns have a 50/50 sight picture and a trap gun is typically 80/20 or more. Did a bunch of testing back in the early '80s when I started shooting trap. A longer shot string helps if your timing was off a whisker I think?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

@@mackellyman5642 Quail and Pheasant fly about 40-50fps, ducks about 60fps. Most upland loads are still doing 800-900fps at 30 yards. I personally don't think "shot string" is of any importance while upland hunting with high-speed loads.

[@davidmalone4017]

Does the recoil increase with steel shot?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

No

[@davidmalone4017]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 -thanks very much!!!

[@davidmalone4017]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 -thanks very much!!!

[@joeltowle2737]

Bismuth for older doubles!

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Yep, but just wayyyyy too expensive for dove and quail. I couldn't imagine shooting 4 flats of bismuth during the dove seasons.

[@WillyK51]

Can you shoot steel shot out of old Shotguns?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

Depends on whether or not the barrel is rated for steel shot. You risk bulging the barrels on many old fixed-choke guns. Many older screw-in chokes were also not compatible with steel shot, and tended to warp or get stuck in barrels.

[@wannabuyamonkey5983]

I have 2 older funs and neither is OK for Steel Shot. Talked to the manufacturer of one gun who is still in business and they have, when available, replacement barrels properly lined for Steel with screw in chokes.

[@libra7624]

something funny for a concept would be Ackley improved chokes and Creedmoor shot gun shells, they dont exist but funny to imagine, or even nosler partition BB's 😂

[@michaelconvey8017]

had some bad lead loads that barely made it out looked black cloud coming out

[@tomhman6441]

It’s just a matter of time before the anti gun people jump on this topic. Bad news for us recreational shooters. Steel shot cost more and I like to shot 4 boxes when I shoot clays.

[@Sneakyjoe69]

Let’s go hunting

[@bryanheimann5370]

The winchester xperts are not much better than the cheep cheep clay loads. Just bigger, faster shot.

[@jimb8904]

This. Is. Excellent....outstanding...above. average..and. exciting. To. Me...for. the. Fact. I. Have. Hunted. And. Shot. Pheasants. With. Steel. Also. Myself... around. Fish. Point. And. Point. Moullee. In. Michigan...this. became. extra. Interesting....with. you. Mentioning..bismuth...I. have. Shot. Grouse.... snipe. Woodcock... pheasants.......even. one. Rabbit...with. bismuth. 6.s. not. To. Mention. Many. Duck.s. And. Geese..with. Bigger. Shot. Like. Bb.s...n... 2.s where. Non. Toxic. Loads. Are. Required... and. Part. Of. That. Choice... was........ this. Bismith. Is. Barrel. Friendly.... To. Guns. Made. Before. The. Steel. Shot. Requirement.s. where. In. Designated. Area.s..... in. The. 1990.s. there. was. At. Least. Two... articles..in. major. Publication.s.. reccomending.. it. For. Guns. Made. Even. As. Far. Back. As. The. 1930.s. or. Earlier.... this. Is. A. Good. Vdeo..by. an. All. Around. Gun...man.....rifle. Man.....and. literally.. show.s. you. Do. Your. Homework. So. To. Speak..... have. A. Nice. Day... mine. Will be. Better. Now......

[@daveybernard1056]

If steel was a fine replacement for lead, why did we have to be FORCED to change?

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

I never said it was a fine replacement; but it is a "workable replacement" if you're forced to use it. Many hunters voluntarily use it because they don't want lead in their food, on their soil, or in their ponds. So sometimes, it's a choice.

[@daveybernard1056]

@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Lead is mined out of the Earth. Hunters occasionally return it to the Earth. Where it lays happily.

[@AdamDguitars]

I don’t judge you for owning so many chokes. I do judge you for living in California though.

[@Imragnar1]

Our gmas rquire it

[@desertdogoutdoors1113]

This is becoming common in most states.

[@chaecoco2]

There is no such thing as "non-toxic". Everything is toxic and it is dose related. Even water is toxic if you drink to much of it.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

Thanks for your public service message. Good to know. Not.