Stellaris - Wide vs Tall (Post Federations)

[@ryanmassie448]

Aspec: Tall or Wide? Me: *Thicccc*

[@14thbattlegroupcommander]

Surely you meant to say *THICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCČCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC*

[@eycariot987]

EXTRA THICCCC

[@datduong97]

THICC Border

[@SupremeVelocity01]

Thicc just takes a lot of time compared to focussing on just tall or wide. The micro late game gets REALLY tedious. At some point in the game I just drop it, usually later than is necessary. I like my empires nicely build, but the effort I put into it is usually moot. Sometimes I pause the game and am busy just microing planets for 30 minutes, only to do it again after a year of playtime. You have to pause it because the notifications will put a wrench in your plan and your pc lags the fuck out without pausing. You know you did a good job when your autosave starts lagging your pc for a minute and you start to wonder if it will still run after the save. When I have to disable autosave for smooth gameplay is usually when I am done microing.

[@8Aznable8]

@@SupremeVelocity01 same here 😁 lagging every turn of the month 😅

[@inccubusdaniel9249]

Fortress habitat? *THE PLANET FELL BEFORE THE GUARD DID, SO WE BUILT A BETTER PLANET*

[@megumin6456]

Fortress Ringworld

[@davecrupel2817]

@@megumin6456 now THAT is OP.

[@tententononce2570]

Fortress Dyson Sphere

[@frenchfroi1799]

@@tententononce2570 Fortress Birch World

[@logangoerks236]

@@frenchfroi1799 Fortress Alderson World: Now with eight times the delaying action! Also is there a mod with 50x crisis strength? I even play with multiple crisis mods and 20x isn't enough with gigastructures.

[@ragerancher]

Wide: Take over half the galaxy Tall: Take over half the galaxy, but with more habitats.

[@jackmakila3776]

Wide: who cars about 1 planet I have to many to manage anyway Tall: each world is ridiculously well defended

[@NameName2.0]

Annihilation: destroy e v e r y t h i n g.

[@SupremeRTS]

I wish I could breed amoebas as pets. I like my pet amoeba fluffy, but I wish I could breed a herd of space puppies

[@kungfumasta2000]

Boi do i have a mod for you.

[@tententononce2570]

@@kungfumasta2000 I. Need. It.

[@YuYu-mu7xv]

kungfumasta2000 what’s the mod’s name?

[@lucasmarsh9841]

kungfumasta2000 what’s it called?

[@ShebaFr]

I called mine Ziggy Stardust, cuz I love my musical references.

[@scyobiempire4450]

Me as MegaCorp: AAAGHHH I’M 20 OVER MY CAP! Me as any other: 679/246? That’s fine, I’ll just get more planets for admin cap.

[@unknow11712]

ehehe .... last time i ignored something like 679/246 , i had the feeling of seeing the anarchy going wild , and fire evrywhere with my emperor sit on the trone saying : "its fine , we don't need tech if we just throw corvets at a problem "

[@onefastsled]

unknow11712 I mean, vette spam works wonders...

[@hisokamorow1816]

ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky what about enigmatic engineering tho?

[@tommerker8063]

@ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky that must be the most russian name ever

[@hisokamorow1816]

@ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky If they have enigmatic engineering you can't research their wreckage

[@baseupp12]

Wide or tall it doesn't matter every single successful empire needs to have a massive population

[@iwankazlow2268]

Correct. Pops are everything. And bioengineering pops for lackluster bonuses is insanely wasteful use of ascending perks. Because with pops and pop breeding speed you get really fucking fast to the repeatables for the basic resources. Playing voidborne you snowball without even wanting it and in a blink grand adminal AI are pathetic. And you have to dial back because consumer goods and alloys are worth less than minerals and building fleets and megastructures does not consume alloys fast enough.

[@brad9180]

@Cool Dude I had 5600 in my last game 1800 isn't a lot lol

[@chucktowne]

@Cool Dude So just about 15 planets then? Not even that if you had ring worlds and ecumenopolis'. You need to up your game!!!

[@arctifire5709]

chucktowne some people play on tiny, give them a rest lol

[@pll3827]

@@iwankazlow2268 With mods, somehow I got up to 9000 pops. The LAG. But I just had to fill up my Alderson Disk and other megastructures.

[@zekeiyf2003]

Any playthrough where "I am the Senate." is my go to play.

[@BlackBanditXX]

I was recently playing Space SPQR, founded the Roman Empire (Hegemony) and then coincidentally found myself in a position as the sole Arbiter of the galactic community, with emergency powers and an unlimited term. Yo dawg, I heard you like senates, so here's a senate controlling a senate.

[@aaronalbertson8670]

The commonwealth declares war on me "Its Treason, then"

[@reickuhibata]

Being the only council member is the best! Just veto anything I dislike.

[@PEWxDIExPIE]

My 1st save I'm so powerful my empires weight is so high I can just vote on anything I want and every other empire can oppose it and it'll still go through

[@The_Viscount]

With the release of nemesis, it just got better.

[@cryptekcathekh8798]

You missed the 'Gigastructures' Stellaris playstyle, an empire whose sole purpose is to fund ever more expensive and impractical gigastructures. This is CLEARLY the one true way to play Stellaris ...

[@furinick]

I thought stellaris was about galactic genocide 🤔

[@cryptekcathekh8798]

@@furinick What's galactic genocide without a few Nicoll-Dyson beams and Stellar systemcrafts : )

[@EvelynNdenial]

@@cryptekcathekh8798 galactic genocide is such a waste, i'd rather conquer the whole galaxy and move every single pop onto a birch planet.

[@MrVentches]

i once reached like 5k pops, and then resettled them all onto the birchworld. I had to get an autoclicker for that, still took me like 20min. instantly killed the game performance though:D

[@Karl_der_Genosse]

1. Build massive Alloy Focussed Empire 2. Play Tall until you can unlock E.H.O.F. or L-Cluster 3. Colonize the Cluster/Distant Stars 4. Build Outer Galactic Star Systems full of every possible Megastructure, make sure you have a Matroshka Brain and a Hyperstructural Assembly Yard 5. Get Quasar, abandon old empire, have the only connection to the outsides be a Stargate to the outer Galaxy 6. Build MASSIVE Fleets, Attack Moons, Planets and Solarcraft 7. Become the Crisis You are now Thanos, Destroying the Galaxy to resettle all Pops to your virtual Reality which you control as a god

[@AarenJable]

Heh, I forget people actually play the game instead of roleplaying everything

[@RubyRoseITA]

Why not doing both?

[@m4sherman926]

Half of everyone just tries role playing the imperium, none do it better than me though

[@RubyRoseITA]

The Man Emperor of Mankind Well, i tru to roleplay the Eldar before they became a fallen empire, so

[@jackharvey5613]

Ruby Rose I’m trying out a religious gameplay like the covenant in halo

[@RubyRoseITA]

Jack Harvey Never played halo, but cool

[@sevens3]

@4:00 "I don't think that anyone really trusts the AI..." FACTS.

[@teogrom]

For a game where there is such a huge focus on having as many planets as possible, the micro management is ABSOLUTELY abyssmal, auto sector management is uber trash.

[@kevshelby1679]

00 Automatic pops helps. It distributes all pops where needed. But you’re right the devs approach to it is rather ridiculous.

[@KouNagai]

İ didin't buy the game yet bu it doesnt sound that bad, at least it improves something rigth? İnstead of letting planets empty. İ would have used it

[@KouNagai]

İ bougth the game. İ never use oto mode, my planets are too important for me to let ai control them.

[@finnlake3180]

@@KouNagai The mikromanaging of 50 Planets ist Hell in Earth

[@jedipotater1388]

​@@KouNagai i had them set to auto and it has never built anything even though I had overcrowding and unemployment

[@costakeith9048]

Go wide at first, then go tall when going any wider means massive, alloy draining wars. Wars cost alloys which cost minerals which should be used on consumer goods to support researchers. Plus, the number of systems you control is only important early on, once you get terraforming/habitats most your resources will come from planets and habitats until you get your megastructures. I have found the real limitation of this game to be the number of planets you are willing to micromanage, you can become insanely powerful insanely fast if you're willing to go through micromanagement hell.

[@ryangolden2280]

I have done 200 habitats never again

[@sternguard8283]

@Ryan Plays you have my respect, I wouldn't dare go that high with just habitats

[@mikerodrigues9822]

That is the problem. The efficiency limit is based on much useless micro you are willing to do.

[@evanchan9983]

Tbh tall is just bad now. War is still efficient if you can take planets as the injection of low-maintenance pops to resettle and worlds to grow more is a huge buff to economy. Getting more planets with non-void dwellers until mid/late game just means taking more space around planets/chokes. That said, I play tall a lot just because of micro too : P I can usually only manage 20ish planets at a reasonable level during MP (fast speed, no pausing).

[@rhyssmith4218]

Planetary habitats mod settle every planet in the sol system plus regular habitats above all the planetary habitats. Use modded ascension perks one of which makes all planets a min size of 15 (works on asteroids) pulls another couple of tech and ascension mods that combine to add 3 different ways to expand habitats. Bio engineering ascension cause I hate robots and the shroud. Every regular habitable planet gets terraformed then turned into full city worlds (can’t spell the word) Turn all empires around into subjects

[@illusive_Man22]

Virgins: *Plays wide* Chads: *Plays tall* Master race: *Plays hybrid* Prethoryn: *HAK HAK HAK HAK* Hotel ? - Trivago!

[@ferrusmanus4013]

Hybrid is da way to play.

[@TheRenegade...]

Hotel: Trivago*

[@solar1nferno612]

But no matter how you play, there's never enough dakka

[@BrianM78]

Hotel Trivago woman is the most splendid thing on television.

[@illusive_Man22]

@@solar1nferno612 we need more dakka

[@Greningas]

2200 Ok focus, nice and clean tall game. 2214 Hey look, 25 size relic world 2215 Taken by blorg 2216 now its personal. Repeat this about 5 times and thats how my tall games end up, with half the galaxy mine or dead.

[@Thiago34657]

We just can't resist the urge to purge

[@overboss9599]

Me:ok I'm just gonna take this cluster and build it up. Hey look a system with 3 arid worlds I could terraform later well now I should go to that system so I have a chokepoint is that a great mining world?......

[@gutshotninja5757]

@OHGAS this would make a good book.

[@christiandauz3742]

Imagine a Wide Empire taking over a Tall Empire... ...then a Fallen Empire and then a Crisis

[@illusive_Man22]

Came faster than the Unbiden looking for prey

[@1estel1ch.42]

But it's the prethoryn that look for food

[@Monarch_Prime]

@@1estel1ch.42 prethoryn are not just looking for food, they are running away from the unbidden.

[@Monarch_Prime]

Unbidden looking for prethoryn amirite

[@olegoleg258]

That's what she said

[@Lito805]

my type of empire is both wide and tall, otherwise known as " T H E B L O B"

[@saganovsk6322]

Oh yes, wide empire plus tech rush... This is the beauty of exterminating xenos with the first wave of the fleets.

[@Lito805]

@@saganovsk6322 i may not always choose xeonophile ethics, but tbh i don't like xenos in my empire unless they look human

[@Alex-wk2xf]

make it a hive mind blob

[@Lito805]

@@Alex-wk2xf The Blob is a universal concept meant for all types of players and empires who want to be able to destroy any empire that stands in their way

[@dethernaxx]

was it a blue blob

[@DekaDanske]

Aspec: Tall or Wide? me a true intelect: MOUNTANT

[@HazzronIV]

This is a comment. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. On the item is a depiction of the John commenting on the greater complexity of Aspec's musings. It menaces with likes in the couple hundreds.

[@SeReGGa64]

@@HazzronIV I see what you did there

[@shamusson]

@@HazzronIV On the item is an image of a "J" in blue zircon, referring to John creating this comment on 19th of Hematite in the year 2020.

[@HazzronIV]

@@shamusson I should have mustered up a little more brain power for my comment but touché sir, I know when I've been bested.

[@edwardboss]

I play with a mix of both playstyles: Ultra dense empire but with lots and lots of vassals of similar size to force them to also become tall while going with monarchic government to prevent xenos from getting in power in my puppets. I also use a mod to tax research, minerals and energy (advancedascension)

[@darthrevan4933]

Same I think it’s actually the best use of the feudal civic

[@suokkos]

I have wondered would it work or not. But never tried it. To my play style and federation rule changes has made pretty much only feasible route to be early wide turning to later "tall" empire. But maybe going from start for tributaries and vassals might work even better.

[@DragonessYT]

Enemy Wide Empires: "oh no, we're dealing with over population and now have to gain more territory. But because we have more territory we have more empire sprawl, now we can't research things as quickly! And because we have so many planets to manage we have low resources and can't replenish our fleets from all the wars we're in!" Me, a Tall Empire: "Ah, the children are fighting in the back yard again. Whelp, back to building my Titans and ring worlds.

[@honorguard7616]

(has a friend who always goes big and always is in the top 2-3 fleet sizes)

[@haryen8876]

Stellaris really need some custom cenarios. I really don't want to start a new game from the very beginning every time.

[@davidtitanium22]

i would totally love to play in a galaxy with more pre-established lore!

[@furinick]

@@davidtitanium22 yeah they have some fleshed out stories already, just make some scenarios around these

[@wolftooth6678]

I doubt it would ever happen. Paradox would need to make sure both standard[random] galaxies and the scenarios work every time they update the game. And i really dont want them to have to split resources 50-50 as i would nevet play the scenario mode.

[@kevshelby1679]

So no performance at the start? Lol

[@the1lebanese]

@@davidtitanium22 some dude made a Star Wars mod with all the factions already in space and with most of the galaxy colonized

[@Nota-Skaven]

Aspec: you will have a lot of ethics divergence Me: Haha forced labour goes brrrrrrr

[@matthewvektrax9922]

100% me

[@tremor3258]

My last wide empire was dedicated to lots of species, theocracy, and deep space black sites to keep the former two under control.

[@gabrielkrone237]

*laughs in driven assimilator* what is this divergence?

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@gabrielkrone237 necrophage: The only diversity I see is diversity in food sources...

[@thesittingacheroraptor7565]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 devouring swarm: food is food

[@arearl]

Megacorps seem like the perfect way to go tall, with the use of branch offices across the galaxy.

[@kouron]

they are quite fun, especially since you get different buildings, depending on your megacorp (Crime Syndicate or Mega Church for example).

[@Adidas_der_schwanger_war]

also having much money simply allows you to ignore ressource production. Just buy everything

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@Adidas_der_schwanger_war then you get a few Dysons and Decompressors using the alloys that you bought and become the senate just on economy.

[@phildiop8248]

Yeah that's how I play. Tall with branch offices instead of tons of habitats, a few agrarian planets and ecumenopolies.

[@thedoruk6324]

Nothing could ever suprass the titanic smooth Wide-ness of an Aldersob Disk(!)

[@pll3827]

I could fit most of the galaxy in my disk. And I can build more than one!!

[@AlphaNumericKey]

It's so unnecessary..... Also, try building an Alderson Disk around a Birch World.

[@davecrupel2817]

TF is an Aldersob Disk...dare i ask?.... EDIT: i looked it up. Good God...it's like the Ark from Halo.

[@pll3827]

@@davecrupel2817 More wonders from the mod - Gigastructural Engineering.

[@rigen97]

@@davecrupel2817 dude don't give the modder ideas lol next thing you know Gigastructure would have Halo Array galactic project that clears up the galaxy for you lol

[@PhilboLetsPlay]

yo, this chapter thing on the video bar is so cool. Never seen it, good job for utilizing it

[@Animefan1803]

My way of playing is basically like this: Spread until you find either good chokepoints or got atleast 2 or 3 blackholes/neutron stars, pulars etc. You know, the good shit that is necessary for megastructures (or gigastructures depending on vanilla or modded). Then hunker down in said space. Every chokepoint shall be conquered and utilized. Then i start colonizing every planet i got (always staying in admin cap, or atleast slightly over it). I usually still try to atleast keep a fleet that equals my neighbours, which by the time of meeting get probably an envoy. Depending on their political system. (Materialists get envoys, Spritualists get executed.) Then i kinda just collect anomalies and dig sites like pokemon and try to get as much shit as possible. After hunkering down, i kinda concentrate inwards while keeping the galactic community in check. Technocracy and research push usually gives me an edge on unity and tech. While my pops reproduce or being build. Then i kinda start cranking out megastructures until i run out of space. This inwardly outlook kinda doesn´t really change until something forces me to change it. I´m like that weird grandpa that everyone kinda ignores. Until one of these ETs thinks it can use it´s disgusting tentacles and STEP on MY LAWN! Which usually ends in a Great Crusade being called to fully exterminate the lawn violator. Sometimes i use mods to destroy hyperlanes, with which i then dislocate my chokepoints from the rest of my empire. Just keeping Gateways. I like to think that these xenos believe, that my empire is infinitivly vast. While i sit down, knowning my grass will always be greener than the xeno ones.

[@davecrupel2817]

You would make a wonderful neighbor. Assuming you tolerate neighbors.

[@laszlomeszaros247]

Wow I do almost exactly this :D However, I don't kill spiritualist fools, only authoritatian slavers.

[@Animefan1803]

@@davecrupel2817 Depends, do you step on people's lawns? Reading through my comment just now made me think of Clint eastwood in Gran Torino. Which is probably the best description of my playstyle in general.

[@Animefan1803]

@@laszlomeszaros247 authoritarian slavers make great buisness partners. Besides to whom else do i sell these xenos i captured after someone stepped on my lawn? Can't stack fucks like these always into mass graves. Even if that does help the planets ecosystem.

[@davecrupel2817]

@@Animefan1803 That's exactly who i thought of too! xD In that case, I'll stick to my own galaxy. For my own sake ;P

[@sch3ffel]

i like to just role play when playing stellaris... so usually i try to make all my planets kind of self sufficient in resources wich usually means that i tend to have a lot of habitats, fleets and planets everywhere... even going like this: -"so president what planets should we focus terraforing during your term?" -"yes."

[@DukeRevolution]

The one glaring drawback from playing tall is that you miss out on a lot of the events, since you're not colonizing as many planets that can trigger the event. But if you've already seen all or most of them, it sounds like a good alternative.

[@iamusdamma2637]

Thankyou so much for this video because I saw that video back in 2017 but after the newer empire sprawl and planetary pop system I left the game for about six months then came back and scrounged through your channel and others channels looking for these videos around 2020 for the past 3 weeks so thank you for this video.I'm not going to tell you what to dictate your channel about however i will recommend you go over some of your more infamous videos of the past because a lot of players, me included want updated versions of these and this is actually why I checked out this video. It's just great valuable content and maybe everybody else might want these videos too. Hope this helps, this is a great game and needs more attention.

[@geofff.3343]

There is a mix of Wide V Tall that I've found which I don't know how to term, but the goal is in general to expand into every place you can expend to system and planet wise, but as soon as the galaxy gets more set you shift into keeping that empire sprawl well under check. It might be a master of none approach but I find it keeps the micromanagement of a tall game and the unmanageability of a wide game in balance. As long as those borders be nice and thicc you're playing right.

[@Felrika]

Megacorps are still king when it comes to playing tall. If playing a void dweller megacorp, your economy is second to none. I would also like to point out that, if you're playing a megacorp, don't bother with energy production - it's a distraction. Trade will get you what you need. If you focus on trade production and go for Marketplace of Ideas, you will crank out more unity than you know what to do with. I've also noticed one additional benefit to playing tall: Your resources devoted to maintaining your trade network are minimal. Even lower than that of a wide empire (which is still going to be incredibly low). At worst, you'll need maybe two stations devoted to trade gathering. Your fortress stations should do the work of maintaining your trade protection, leaving your fleet to sit in dock at your border rather than having to devote any of it to reducing piracy. Edit: I primarily build tall nowadays. I have little interest in playing Stellaris Paint.

[@lukefreeman828]

I did have fun with this one... I tried PURE trade, buy everything else. Was fun, probably not optimal, but reallllllllly fun :)

[@samuelbenasutti9114]

Void Dweller and Megacorp don't synergise very well in my opinion. You are always strapped for influence to expand and build habitats but if you want to take advantage of being megacorp you also need that influence to establish branch offices. I find that most of the time you are neglecting the branch offices in favor of building habitats to keep your economy and population from stagnating. You can still tech rush and have a very strong empire with this build don't get me wrong. You do get access to the trade league federation which is amazing so that's a positive.

[@lofidante1778]

See I would put it another way. Mega corps are great for a tall empire as it allows you to expand before you research habitats. However, once you get the habitat all your influence should be spend on them.

[@Adidas_der_schwanger_war]

when playing void dweller you will have close to zero generator districts anyway. Even as non megacorp but with void dwellers I think trade habitats are useful.

[@evanchan9983]

trade is super inefficient; 1 trade value = 1 ec and technicians get the +20% tech buffs from associated techs. the +2 amenities from clerks does not make up for them producing 2 less ec + ~0.7ec less for every technician buff tech you get. Endgame repeatable make this even worse, as there are technician repeatables but no trade repeatables. Trade really needs a buff + new techs to make clerks worth anything. The unity/cg are roughly equivalent to the loss in energy, although marketplace of ideas is efficient; consumer benefits is more versatile tho. TL;DR: Build generator habs for energy, avoid trade jobs/districts. That said passive trade value from pops + merchants being nice amenity producers is good enough that galactic stock exchange is still easily worth it

[@huntergoodman1948]

My first play through was wide and then I decided to play y’all and did much much better I had an easier time stabilizing my economy I felt like I made scientific progress and tradition progress a lot faster. I just love being small but dominating in terms of score I started playing wide when they ear in heaven starters and basically single handily conquered most of the galaxy. #TallGang

[@Z3ph3rus]

my recent game is playing tall using the worm in waiting and baol mechanics: turning my home system full of planets into Gaia worlds. Federations can help in the early game. but there is no harm in turning on them and subjugating your neighbour when you outgrow them :)

[@wuzzup3212]

Thanks Aspec! ive been waiting for an updated version of this video!

[@alex2000ish]

Please do an updated guide on playing tall

[@exantiuse497]

Yes, playing "tall" is very much different now than it used to be

[@durpychicken128]

I just finished your old video on this topic lol

[@InnocuousRemark]

Aspec I am so happy you posted this. I was sure playing tall was dead but still wondered what you thought. Now I get to find out!

[@1234kalmar]

The Void Dwellers are ridiculously good at being tall. I once had a playthrough, where I had 10 systems, Only one with habitats for 250 years. I was one of the leading superpowers, technologically, and politically. It was awesome

[@cursedwither7888]

I like the polca dot strategy. Where you start building out a bit, do alotta science and megastructures and then when you figure out how to make gateways you spread your dots and vasallise everyone

[@12Prophet]

"lot of other species that you'll have to integrate" Genocide geckos: Are we a joke to you?

[@TaisharEnder]

It's interesting to hear you talk about wide vs tall and the different play styles. I know that I like the massive fleets and economy of wide, but I also find tech-focused tall builds amazing. With the Federations update I have started to mix the two. I'll stay within my empire sprawl and focus tech early, use my better tech to stay alive, and then snow ball into a wide empire, leveraging that early power spike from my tech advantage to transition into megastructures and large fleets.

[@archmagemc3561]

A total war wide empire or a wide empire who goes the vassal/integreation route also has the influence to go tall at the same time, which is very difficult to manage, but my god you are sooo powerful its not even a joke. Taking on the fallen empires around year 2350? yes please!

[@kazjanik2572]

Everytime I play I end up vassalizing everyone within two empires of me from the immense amounts of research that I get from my habitats, I've got 12k research rn only 47 years in

[@TheRewasder97]

I though that since federations and the admin cap building, tall was not worth it, because the only downside of wide was the admin cap, and now it was sorted. I still like the tall gameplay more most of the time, being relatively small, playing my cards carefully and dominating the galaxy thanks to The Senate.

[@matthewmartin3787]

It sorta depends. Tall is more about turning that two mineral planet into a 60 mineral mining habitat, while wide says just get more systems with minerals. Eventually wide will reach a point of diminishing returns, where the alloys spent on war for more systems aren't worth the mineral income claimed, but by then they generally have enough planets they don't care.

[@zer0ix956]

Join a federation is almost essential for me if I'm playing tall. There's always xeno empire that will try to force me to be become vassal. And their fleet is always overwhelming while my economy and tech is superior.

[@matthewmartin3787]

their fleet may be overwhelming because the fleet power calculation adds in starbases, and since you get one starbase for every ten systems wide empires tend to have more of them. So if they have a few fortress stations, their fleet power may look overwhelming but have no actual ships. I once completely wiped a fallen empire's fleets but they were still overwhelming...

[@mikerodrigues9822]

It just means you arent playing well enough. Federations for my tall empires are just a way to get ships free of upkeep

[@MikeSnitkovski]

@@mikerodrigues9822 damn, Stellaris even has tax evasion

[@rhov5708]

Great video in my opinion, I have been looking for specifically this video in the last week, and all the candidates where about a year old or older :D I do have request though, I enjoy playing machine empires (probably cause I'm too lazy to deal with the politics of normal races xD), but this leads to some significant differences in play style or considerations. I would love a video that dives a bit more into the differences between the play styles and management decisions of different types of races!

[@CMAzeriah]

The tall bois can out run you whereas the wide bois will simply sit on you.

[@jaybee8862]

I usually start off Tall, like on my DA run right now i kinda just rushed a few chokepoints and chilled until i got cruisers... then i gobbled up some of my neighbours outer space and grabbed new chokes... i turned a couple worlds worth of pops into borgs at a time then peaced out before declaring on the next neighbour... then when im happy with the new space and surrounded by half dead empires i crank out megastructures I dont really like... straight up murdering Empires... kinda prefer to leave them around so i can take over a few worlds later and transfer pops before trading it back... that way my neighbours growth kinds helps me to

[@FARBerserker]

With 30 influence per outpost, very very wide . .

[@acharndael9159]

stellaris' musics are just great to express a interstellar species' evolve

[@javierfernandez8611]

Being a megacorp can even become a way to play tall while competing in the Galactic Senate. Each trading base gives + 10% economic power, which in the late game translates to a ridiculous amount in terms of diplomatic power.

[@Briggsby]

*glances at 10 million Diplomatic Power, permanent sole seat on the Galactic Council, veto powers enabled, tens of thousands of credits/month even without a Dyson Sphere.* I'm sure I don't know what you mean.

[@extra_crispy4958]

And if you do Secrets of the Cybrex you and get extra Megastructure build speed and also Mega Engineering

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

Not to mention the incredibly useful warforge. They're the best precursors by far, in my opinion.

[@A_Spec]

Agreed

[@CannonmangamingYT]

Idk if anyone else feels this way, but it feels like there are a lot of different blockers to prevent you from just going ape in claiming systems

[@Adidas_der_schwanger_war]

I once played tall as void dwellers and put 2 fortress habitats at the only chokepoint that lead to my empire. Never was defeating a crisis so easy. Void Dweller is my absolute favorite origin.

[@A_Spec]

Beyond powerful

[@DerBeppone]

Thanks for the tips in this playlist! :) Really helpful and the tall playstyle seems very intriguiging! Stellaris is a real good challenge and my door back into grand strategy, since I played EU IV. Right now I have had my first Gameplay pretty much through, since I got the game in this summer sale. And I just love the dynamics within the galactic community! I even managed to dodge annhilitation of an awakened Empire at this point. after I accidentilly vassalised myself, confused about the "partner" (I don't know the exact english name for it) status. We even lost just one empire to the prethoryns. Obviously Since I wasn't aware of different playstyles and just jumped into the game for a learning match, I played wide. I was waiting ages allready for a good package with a good price and now I am asking myself, why I didn't take the complete package :D Right now I have at least Sythetic Dawn, Utopia and Apocalypse.

[@felixrowan3740]

As a new player, I didn't know what these terms meant before. I must say that playing tall does sound quite interesting!

[@RosieMama]

Me at the start of every stellaris game: yeah I think I'm going to try to play tall this time Me at the end of every stellaris game: *MORE MAP*

[@purpledevilr7463]

Just get really tall, offer protectorate status, integrate them and now you’re core is tall and outskirts are wide.

[@A_Spec]

Tributaries are better tho.

[@Gabriel87100]

I wish there was a voidspawn + lost colony origin. Like, your civilization is planetless and living in habitats, but it was because your previous empire banished you for some reason, in another part of the galaxy you can encounter them.

[@RealAlexMoreton]

Your a legend dude : )

[@papercutseven1926]

Big thanks for keeping us updated on Stellaris, this really is a beautiful game

[@joosepkoressaar6660]

I've been playing stellaris for around 500h, just recently discovered your channel and i must admit, holy snitchel you're smort! I've been idk what actually, 50% tall (every system has habitats and huge citadels with fidget spinners totalling almost 500K in total defensive capabilities) and i also have 4 fleets basically consisting of picket ships, artillery and basically like a massively organized mess of mixed ships (each fleet almost 800k) and i always tease me enemy by claiming his one or two systems and slowly expanding because i really do dislike empire sprawl because i just love love LOOOOVE researching everything like a mad scientist on coke lol. Playing on Grand Admiral difficulty, crisis strenght is maxed, ai agressivness is high also with console i have AI_horde 10 (makes AI even more agressive) and 85% of time i'm just sitting behind pc, arranging me systems and sectors meanwhile enemies toss their near 1M fleets against me starbases with me own fleets (L-Gates and wormholes are also heavily guarded) and i have one empire literally trying his hardest to conquer my systems, i have around 40 planets, around 60 ring worlds (every system has a ring world). What is this playstyle? I'm not familiar with them at all, but lately i've been into your videos and our playstyle does seem very similar, careful and planned also lots of messing around with fleet manager. So, can you tell me, am i more to tall or wide? Map size is huge 2k stars elliptical. Current year is ~3200 victory year is off lol. PS: Love your videos man a lot and even now i'm discovering new things!

[@Namelesswhirl]

I found that a Devouring swarm is a good option for a wide empire. Your empire doesn't have to worry about happiness or comforts and any civilization you take over is a food source.

[@Frightning]

Changes Federations made to Admin Cap have made it so that there is no real downside to going wide (you don't have to min/max your wideness, but having more territory, all other things being equal, is *always* a benefit). With this in mind, the 'optimal' strategy for your given situation, is to expand when and where you can, and only when expansion is no longer worthwhile (specifically: opportunity cost of expanding is too great). Switch to a wide empire style of influence/alloy usage (or go to war with a neighbor, if you're so inclined).

[@kevinbarber2795]

My Hive Mind combines both. Wide in size, Tall in method. I love it. :)

[@aeromin7825]

love playing tall and getting a nice beefy militarist next door turn protective

[@ybwang7124]

there's wide, there's tall, and there's console command research 100000

[@Qanak479]

Technocracy empires with slaver guilds and/or meritocracy and mechanist origin is also an amazing tall start for easy and cheap tech and robits for more pops. Also great to grab synthetic ascension ambitions with

[@Centroidlocus]

I still remember my first game playing wide a few months ago... Got crushed by fanatic authoritarians, found the horizon signal anomaly, and went through with it since I didnt know what it was back then...

[@kubajackiewicz2]

My favourite hybrid style is go as wide as possible asap peacefully, get ~5-10 planets, then build them as tall as possible with labs, and offset economic shortcomings by increasingly good tech bonuses for production

[@shorewall]

Yeah, I always race for the chokepoints, and then more, then more, until I'm boxed into a secure position. Then I tech up, ignoring the outside world. Until I am overwhelming, and then I make the galaxy my subordinate. I really like Inward Perfection for that, but I also like the option to interact with the galactic community.

[@exantiuse497]

That's definitely not as strong as either of the playstyles described in this video. Pops and pop growth are key in the cuerent game, if you only have 10 planets to grow pops in you'll fall behind big time, in both economy and science. Before the change to admin cap playing with only a few planets used to be viable since you avoided the tech penalties that way, but now that you can just build more admin cap having more planets or habitats is always stronger

[@destrylett1619]

Tall takes awhile to get started but ends up a much much much stronger wide empire in the end

[@Michiganmayor420]

What if you play a game where you control the entire galaxy, have a habitat on every possible place, every possible ring world, and every planet. Meet the widetall crisis

[@hovant6666]

Wide just turns into notification-spam and getting buried by dialogue boxes

[@ZeraNex]

I love megastructures, science, planets, pops, THE L-CLUSTER, and total domination

[@catisreckless4647]

Life-seeded origin also works with a tall playstyle. Since space structures have 100% habitability, the Gaia world preference isn't really an issue. Plus you can augment your habitats by turning choice worlds into Gaias. Great if you're a Xenophile, since you can have multiple species in your empire without worrying about who can live where. Probably don't have as good a start as Voidborne, but still a good origin that fits the tall blueprint.

[@TexHaw]

I do a mixture where I have a core sector or 3 sectors of planets. Then I create what I like to call “The Maginot Zone”, wherein it’s a desolate region of space filled with fortresses and nothing else. Maybe a Habitat/Planet or two, but not a lot of people are in the Maginot Zone, just defenses and things that will rip up navies. This Maginot Zone is typically a sector thick, meaning the enemy must fight through a lot of stuff to get to my core planets. By the time they have, they’ll be torn apart and the fleet I have will be able to mop the floor with them.

[@AaronCMounts]

*Laughs in Multiple 100k+ Power Fleets* The best you're ever gonna get a citadel up to is about 60k power, and that's by going 100% defensive modules and buildings, plus maximum number of defense platforms. That'll get rolled by any FE or AE fleet with ease.

[@Chebington]

The One System Challenge is the only way I play anymore. Playing more vanilla builds are too easy.

[@magicstyx]

This reminds me of the time I got blocked in by two friends. I never needed to use my fleet because we were all in a federation so they did all of the attacking, so my fleet was just growing. Then I unlocked colossus and destroyed every other empire before the end game crisis even started.

[@Hitchclif]

My favourite playstyle is syncretic evolution, extreme specialisation for raw resources. Main race is research focused, then I go for bots and the ascension for bots, 1.7 pops a year per planet, profit.

[@zechariahrauch4740]

My favorite way to play, especially now that the Hegemon origin is a thing, is tall in the beginning with a militaristic focus, get a good size starting cluster, and go full feudalism on the galaxy. BECOME THE COMMUNIST SPACE PENGUIN GALACTIC GRAND MARSHALL.

[@INWMI]

you also can do a mix, instead straight tall i had a lot of fun with 10 planets empire, focused in strongholds. also once i had 15 planets in same system + another 3 nearvy

[@nobodyfromnowhere3597]

And than there is me who still go flexing, utterly baffling tall and wide empires of my friends.

[@Gwynbleidd93]

Here's my wide/tall, organic/synthetic, psionic/synthetic triple-hybrid playstyle: 0. I play with 36 building slots mod and another one that allows multiple 1st tier ascension paths (i.e. Mind over Matter + The Flesh is Weak). Neither are necessary, but they are quite good for this playstyle. 1. Lithoid, Xenophobe + F. Materialist, Dictatorial, Syncretic Evolution (another Lithoid), Mining Guilds, Technocracy. I give my founder species some leader-enhancing traits, and I give syncretics Very Strong. 2. Get a decent chunk of space and colonize everything. Lithoids grow slow, but it doesn't matter once they get 2-3x the amount of planets normal organics do. Aim for around 15 planets total or so. Habitability doesn't matter much, as long as they are not tomb worlds. 3. Setup planets in the following way: Capital = trade+unity (since planetary designation cannot be changed there), 2x alloy planets, 2x refinery planets, 2x bureaucratic planets, additional 4-5 split between minerals and energy. 4. Release the remaining 4-5 planets as a vassal. 5. Get to gene modding and droids ASAP. Don't bother with synths for now. Keep the toasters at servitude. 5a. Nihilistic Acquisition? *OPTIONAL* 6. Free the vassal, change your gov to a Corporation, form Trade League federation with the former vassal. 7. Your former vassal is a great place for your branch offices > Commercial Forum, Corporate Embassy and Mercenary Liaison Office. 8. Once you have enough droids to start replacing the syncretics, switch syncretics into livestock. Not all at once, do it planet-by-planet by gene-modding all syncretics on that planet into a livestock sub-species. 8a. Keep a few syncretics modded for Trade Value around to be your clerks. *OPTIONAL* 9. Turn ALL your planets into Ecumenopoli. 10. Galactic Community: try pushing for Galactic Commerce, Industrial Development, Unchained Knowledge and Mutual Defense resolutions. 10a. Galactic Commerce: Trade League trade policy synergizes well with those bonuses. At the same time, your empire will be swimming in CGs (neither organic nor synthetic slaves use them, so you will have more than you need), so bureaucrac upkeep is no big deal. Also, diplomatic weight from economy is our thing with those Corporate Embassies. Also^2, %-based reductions to naval cap hurt wide empires more than tall ones. 10b. Industrial Development: Lithoids on Ecumenopoli don't care about habitability. Unlike your enemies. Also, ID resolutions boost livestock output TWICE. 10c. Unchained Knowledge: We are playing tall-ish empire with enough research to benefit immensly from this. Also, researcher upkeep hurts others more than you, just like with Galactic Commerce. 10d. Mutual Defense: Flat naval cap increases benefit tall empires more than the wide ones. Combine this with Mercenary Liaison Offices, Anchorage spamming and Supremacy policy and you can easily surpass a wide empire in both fleet power and diplo weight from fleets. 11. Go psionic. This one is debatable, but weirdly enough, psionic ascension is the only one that benefits an organic-synthetic hybrid empire: Instrument of Desire, high planet stability and great leaders - neither of them are organic/synthetic-specific. Also, Lithoids get longer lifespans which is a good synergy. 11a. Mod your founder species to be Venerable for shit and giggles. *OPTIONAL* 12. If you play with mods that allow multiple ascensions paths, like me - The Flesh is Weak + Synthetics. Otherwise, skip this step (as you don't want synth rebellions that come from not having TFiW). 13. Transition to Tall-ish. Habitats and Megastructures where possible. Psionic ruler can help with Influence costs. Final notes: > Don't bother with The Chosen One being your ruler in a Corporation. Instead try to have TCO as an Admiral and try amassing as many unique traits (Hell's Heart, Foredoomed to a Randezvous, Dragonslayer etc.) on him as possible. > Keep only as many of your founder pops as you need to fill in all the Ruler jobs (and Researcher/Bureaucrat jobs, if you don't have synths) - have droids do the rest. Force your livestock growth once you have filled all the mentioned jobs. > Slaves use only 0.75 housing and amenities and almost none CGs, regardless of living standards. Also, livestock use only 0.25 housing. > Robot slaves use only 0.5 housing and amenities and no CGs. > With the 2 above points combined, one Residential Arcology (24 housing) can house: 1 founder-ruler, 10 syncretic-clerks, 30 syncretic-livestock and 16 droid-specialists. Nice. > Clerks and livestock will fulfill all of your empire's basic needs. CGs? Clerks. Energy? Clerks. Minerals? Livestock. Amenities? Clerks. Also, Unity? Clerks.

[@daemonic1317]

Thank you so much for these videos good sir.

[@Lord_Ocram]

Planets? Habitats? Tf are those? Give me an ecumenopolis and I’ll give you megastructures, then the galaxy

[@crisalexcris15]

I do play both tall and wide something like a pyramid structure where my main sector is heavily developed with other sectors serving as pop growth to trow at my ring worlds or ecumenopolis

[@dr_yeet9399]

I have somehow accidentally made a very tall empire in a game with two friends and some AI and they are a machine empire with a load of habitats and habitable planets in my starting constellation that I haven't left, only going as far as the choke points and defending them, I originally planned wide but stronger AI empires boxed me in, I went tall and its paying off. Weird how the game can just change how you think you want your empire to go versus how it actually goes.

[@ironviper72]

I like being Rogue Servitors who start with the ring world origin. You can put bio trophies on the ring world and turn any planet you encounter into machine worlds. Find a few planets in your starting constellation? Don't need to expand much further.

[@Grivian]

I think it is pretty cool when you create the FIRST GALACTIC EMPIRE

[@barkingbarker8291]

I must be that one player that takes over a large area and has a big military like a wide empire does but has basically no planets and a lot of megastructures like a tall empire does

[@pebble2258]

There HAS to be some way to ease the insane amount of micromanagement required in a wide empire. It's exhausting.

[@renatodutrarangel112]

Aspec: Tall or Wide? Me who manage all the planets of my half galatic empire: You need to chose?

[@juliankirby9880]

I started a game w/ a devouring swarm next door, and was able to box them in. On the other side of the galaxy at 2320 a driven assimilator spawned. I beat down the DA after allowing them to take 2/3 of the galaxy. for the computer,and allowed the swarm to feed. I’ll let y’all know what happens. As of 2390 the Swarm is taking territory, and I’ve given up a system with a gateway to them. To see where they feed.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Species you have to integrate. LAUGHS IN PURGE

[@venomdragon7853]

I have an empire that does both, if you manage it properly. Assimilators that rapidly expand but also have a science nexus by 70 years in. With outstanding tech and absurd fleet power. The cruisers that this empire typically produce has 13k shields and like 6k armor. Fleet power is usually six time as great as other empire's. Eco booms once you hit midgame. This empire I have created is truely disgustingly strong, and merges both playstyles into one. Currently I have 5 ringworlds, a dyson sphere, and one of each other megastructure. with many habitats and many worlds, and it's only 200 years in. I also own half of the damn galaxy

[@evolvedape2161]

In my last campaign both the Kahn and those people after you open the L-Gates both awoke at the same time. It was such BS.

[@blackcorp0001]

Bought this game after watching your vids ! Thanks for the content !

[@0ptera]

No one ever seems to mention how Cybrex also give normal empires access to warforms. Warforms turn those pesky Fortress habitats or FE Worlds with several k of defense armies into a minor obstacle. Just drop 10 warforms to fill combat width and watch them decimate massive armies.

[@maxs.5112]

I wish there were more ways to play the game rather than choosing either wide and tall. Even sub groups within wide and tall would be fine with me.

[@bluenightfury4365]

A middle ground play style?

[@maxs.5112]

@@bluenightfury4365 GENIUS!

[@SkyrimCartographer]

I mean really, there are. Wide or tall is a classic description for any strategy game. Many of the big titles out there host similar style strats for playing civs. But more to it, wide and tall both can be approached in a variety of ways from many different civ combinations. Check out vids from Lathland or Stefan Anon or even other ASpec vids, they all cover different strategies of the sort.

[@mikerodrigues9822]

Tall and Wide came from Civilization series, I believe the fourth game, where the middle ground was awful because you had penalties based on the number of cities, so you had to go tall to avoid them or take a Path to reduce the penalties

[@ace_of_laze]

Go wide, better get cybrex. Go tall, better get cybrex. Love the divercity here. (edit spelling)

[@A_Spec]

Cybrex in general is the best one.

[@ace_of_laze]

@@A_Spec I like the rework on them, and i think it made them even stronger. As you ve put at the end of the vid, its all bout managing alloys and influence, and the war forge does look just so handy for it. (edit spelling)

[@piolit06]

Playing wide and managing planets can get a little tedious but manageable, until your game almost crashes and runs on 1 fps because you have the view planet screen up, so you turn on automation everywhere and hope for the best.