Steve Jones reflects on his days with the Sex Pistols

Sex Pistols Guitarist Steve Jones on his times with the Sex Pistols and his new book ‘Lonely Boy.’

[@AutomaticSelector]

I hate this type of interview. She's the type of interviewer who is not interested in the guest she's sitting across from, but only wants to hear what they have to say about _other_ performers. Too bad Jonesy was too polite to walk out on her.

[@chrisbennett606]

AutomaticSelector exactly

[@lucianofigueiredo4877]

Vrdd

[@tommymaguire2839]

This chick ALWAYS sucked. I can't believe she's still on TV. Well.......is "Fox" TV? lol

[@breal1183]

You have no clue what youre talking about!! Or how an interview goes!!

[@AutomaticSelector]

@@breal1183 You are silly.

[@LS-ly8gl]

John Lydon is an honest, painfully honest for some genius.

[@scotthart2]

Exactly

[@MrRatrod57]

Agreed!

[@daveshaw2342]

@@MrRatrod57 love lydon hes no yes man .

[@kenairockband]

“You might not like me; but at least I’m honest”

[@jfpOne23]

Anyone who doesn't find a JR a genius ( and Malcolm) is a fool.

[@barfcoswill]

Lydon was right to walk-off, Ritchie's death was personal for the group, they knew him while Cobain was another news item. Their deaths do not compare much: Ritchie was facing a murder charge, looking at 20 years to life and they had enough to convict. Ritchie also had the Pistols taken away from him when they disintegrated, hard hole to fill and all of them had trouble just after the breakup, Jones and Ritchie hit H, Ritchie a lot harder. All of them were young people exploited and abused by the adults, Ritchie's mom providing him with the lethal dose. Cobain was not facing 20 years of jail, had record companies on their knees begging him, was married and just had a kid, was pushing 30, Ritchie was 21.

[@r.o7897]

First objective comment I've ever read about Sid.

[@Music-oi2nf]

But she and Steve were right in that Lydon probably walked out because the subject was momentarily someone other than Lydon.

[@Prin305]

@@Music-oi2nf Thats far from the truth. John has done many interviews and spoke about his peer Sid who was his Bestfriend from his childhood. So as you can imagine to ask him if his best buds forced overdose caused by his mother has recollection to Kurt Cobain who shot himself are 2 different worlds and is very insensitive. Now had the interviewer did her job and found out who Sid actually was and who he was to John she would've never asked that question and John knew that which is why he walked.

[@bluedahlia]

@@Music-oi2nf nah, if she really asked that, it really was an at best insensitive question, and in terrible taste overall. John was good friends with Sid, and he always talks about him with affection and compassion. He did the right thing to walk away.

[@User-om5bv]

People seem to forget than Sid Vicious was just a kid basically, imagine the life Sid had at the time he had it. It's not for everyone.

[@tonyp9601]

ha ha ha ha. It's no wonder Jonh walked out on her. He would have seen right through her before she started.

[@purplesunflower8242]

Yeap who is she? American wasnt born when the Punk thing kicked off in London ! we all felt so sad when David Bowie passed very sad.

[@lucianofigueiredo7220]

Verdade😆😆😆

[@Louie_The_Sexy_Hag]

Anyone got a link?

[@rebel-artist-nerd]

Johnny Rotten sent her into a tailspin and it was hilarious... That is Johnny for you! He don't like fakes.

[@SoloSaga]

He's also a conservative now Super punk

[@turtleneckferret]

She's fake. That's why he walked.

[@claytonstrickland8336]

@@SoloSaga Lydon is going to be other. Whatever other is. If he were in North Dakota rather than California he'd be a progressive.

[@yummyjackalmeat]

John Lydon just doesn't like people with fake tv personalities like this woman. Nothing against her she does what she needs to for her job, but it just doesn't make for a good interview.

[@TimeTraveller010]

The most balanced observation. Every other comment is caught up in a street smart reply. The replies above are awarded zero grades.

[@williamwoody7607]

Does what she needs for her job indeed-too bad you can’t ask Roger Ailes.

[@andrewjoyner4133]

Yeah she is a bit loud and annoying but I think Johnny must also have been in a bit of a sensitive place at the time tbh

[@vikingson9000]

Johnny Trash I was thinking the same thing!yummyjackalmeat is correct..wasn't that chick from MTV ?? Lydon has more talent in his turd then she will ever have!

[@persephone6896]

Awesome observation

[@HoodedExileTV]

Johnny Rotten was probably just sick of Sid Vicious questions.

[@topiciobanu]

Levi FTW or The situation still hurt him to this day, i mean he used to be very angry and all kinds of shit and now he s way softer

[@HoodedExileTV]

- Topi Yeah, that's kinda why I thought he'd be sick of the questions, I'd be sick of people asking me questions about something that hurt me deeply

[@niall441]

JOHNNY is a pure Gent! believe it or not.

[@BrungersBandRock]

Lyndon is a sweet, honest man

[@antyeardsley]

@NPC Beef totally agree..

[@felixfelix7447]

"Why do you think he walked off?" You know exactly why steve 😏

[@jenniferholt5194]

I disagree with Kennedy- John Lydon is one of the most honest- funniest people around!!! Please Kennedy!!

[@MrLJT1]

Annoying as hell doesn't begin to describe that interviewer.

[@chickenzalfrezi]

Gully Foyle she’d get it though......

[@creepshowcrate]

Her fuckin' DOG'S name is "Lemmy." She just to get to that critical piece of information in there while Jonesy was talking. What a poser.

[@rollacoastaride1937]

Johnny Lydon was out of order, he forgot to slap her

[@dannyinaus]

this stupid bitch likes to pretend she is a punk and soooo into it - but she works for Fox News Business - oops

[@chrisedwards2311]

Lydon wasn't there was he?

[@Mewted]

lol... ebonics4everyone just used a neo-Nazi fake ass "punk" group as a counter argument to liberalism.

[@angelocatapang6054]

skrewdriver=right wing neo nazi punks.

[@niall441]

KENNEDY is a phony wagon!

[@AmadorChann]

"You dirty fucker What a fucking rotter" -Steve jones

[@andrewstubbs822]

🤣

[@DaleRobby]

She is AWFUL!

[@RichieDb2]

She asked about the parallel between Kurt Cobain and Sid Vicious???!! Damn this chick is clueless. She should stop interviewing people.

[@LetsGoMetsGo33]

What? They were both charismatic, heroin addicted, 20-something guys in loud rock bands that got tons of press and were considered revolutionary. They both had obnoxious, controlling junkie girlfriends that were despised by their band. They may both have been involved in murder (the one that is thought to be a murderer might be innocent, the one thought to have killed himself may have been murdered). There were parallels. Courtney even had a role in the Sid and Nancy movie. Kurt used to sign in as “Sid Vicious” in hotels. Actually, the only DIFFERENCE is Kurt and Courtney wrote a lot of songs, whereas Sid, who did write a few, didn’t live long enough to do much of that (he joined the Pistols as a non musician at 20, was dead by 22).

[@eljefescientist5726]

In '94 all MTV VJs would ask Guests about Kurt. It would make sense to ask Rotten- esp. since Punk was-then making a '2nd wave.' Pre-Nirvana, Punk (other than the Clash) was not played or reminisced much, or if it was - still remained very much underground.

[@earnestonslaught3555]

Cobain could actually write songs

[@jasondankenbring1710]

@@LetsGoMetsGo33 Touche. Thanks for saving me 20 minutes, lol. I'm no Kennedy fan, but how could you NOT see the parallels (and if it's insulting to anyone, it's Kurt, so I'm not sure what the butter boy was on about). The older he gets without growing up, the more embarrassing it is for everyone involved.

[@jasondankenbring1710]

@@LetsGoMetsGo33 You forgot unattractive, both were unattractive (and KINDA similar looking, KINDA).

[@irishelk3]

He's really cool, I started listening to the Sex Pistols after watching his podcasts. He's so down to earth and he listens to his guests. Legend.

[@MrBrindleStyle]

lol

[@artapollo3367]

Kurt "died" in 94, not 95

[@tsmay4598]

So 95 was after Cobain died.

[@jonblazeinc]

That's right 1994. But close enough

[@hyena131]

What's great about her recollection of Lydon walking out on her is that it still clearly bothers her a great deal, whereas Lydon has probably forgotten about it. Or doesn't give a crap.

[@stevenwilliams24]

Coke or Pepsi, you got that right geezer. And we know the "special ones" are pulling the strings.

[@moonlily1]

Starting out her interview by bitching about Johnny Rotten was unprofessional. What does she expect, for Jones to bash him or come to her defense? I saw a clip of one of the interviews he walked out on, and he was pissed annoyed with her for talking over him when he was trying to answer her questions. "Would you just shut up for two seconds and just let me finish a fucking sentence?" he said; she kept talking and he left; she sat there stammering, "I didn't.....I didn't do anything..." Frankly, I loved him for it.

[@russellsims8197]

John Lydon does come across as unable to get over himself. But I'm glad he walked out of interviews with this interviewer who's a pain in the arse. You have to admire him sometimes. And Steve Jones? Top man.

[@jeffmurray6219]

Have a read of Steve's book. It's a real honest one. I wish him really well and thank you. Come on Jones's Jukebox.

[@TerryDrumCovers1951]

Steve's comment on politics at the end were priceless. Well done Steve. Loved the Pistols. I really wonder if this interviewer knew anything about the subject matter.

[@stephenspark9358]

no she is a fake and over paid shill

[@Franciscasieri]

She didn't...hack

[@stormbringercoming8105]

@@Franciscasieri In all fairness, she’s more informed about the subject she’s speaking about than most anchor babes.

[@machbaby]

I never could stand that woman. I can't believe she still has a career.

[@nymike06]

Kennedy is awesome

[@ethanballard631]

Maybe Lydon just doesn't give a f*ck about any similarities between Sid Vicious and Kurt Cobain. I know I don't. He's probably tired to death of talking about Sid Vicious (and doesn't want to repeat himself to some dim-wit) and probably doesn't acknowledge Kurt Cobain. Lydon was one of the first punks, and he made it at a time when punk was controversial. Why should he care about somebody that got famous 15 years later when punk rock was just a cliché for yuppies and about as controversial as "Old McDonald Had a Farm"? Why don't we ask Peter Murphy how he feels about Marilyn Manson, a tired and cheesy 1990's copy of about 15 groups from the 1970's?

[@billyrocca9029]

In fact Jonesey was a true sub-proletarian yob with a taste for clothes and real down to earth rock. He loved Rod stewart and Roxy music , was an illetterate thief who picked up the guitar because he'd knicked tons of gear ilke amps and guitars and thought he'd be better off learning how to play the guitar and he did! Plus he taught himself how to read and write and built himself quite a culture, and became a major gutarist in the rock biz. What a life and what a guy!

[@daveshaw2342]

John lydon is a living legend nuff said .

[@sidvicious355]

there is absolutley no reason to compare gallaghers brothers with steve and john

[@Vlad-tt9is]

Nail on the head Steve, votingin is the difference between coke and pepsi when voting for Main Stream parties.

[@dogsavethequeen7689]

my all time favorite jones riff is the chug and the bend into the 4th verse on god save the queen. 2 seconds of pure rocknroll fury.

[@georgeedward1226]

I have heard Chris Spedding played guitar on that album.

[@dogsavethequeen7689]

@@georgeedward1226 Strange. Jones is credited as the guitarist. I did find one obscure site that alleged spedding played guitar on 3 songs. Didn't say which or what. If it did happen it could've been background or accent stuff. Who knows. I'm sticking with Jones.

[@John--]

I think it's an inside joke as to who played what on that album. My favorite riff might be the opening to Holidays in the Sun. Nothing gets you pumped to play like that, or any song by them really. The fills in Pretty Vacant are great too.

[@michaelreidperry3256]

Never bring up Syd's death with Lydon in the same context of Kurt Cobain's death. Syd was John's mate. His death is still soar to John.

[@jonblazeinc]

I think it's because both Sid and Kurt had a huge cult following for their eras and lived damaged lives. I get it though Sid didn't commit suicide like Kurt did

[@gdr205]

@@jonblazeinc Not sure if either one killed themselves...

[@jonblazeinc]

@@gdr205 you think Kurt never killed himself? You suggesting it could have been made to look like that?

[@gdr205]

@@jonblazeinc Rumors...Who knows 4 sure?

[@jonblazeinc]

@@gdr205 maybe but I believed Kurt killed himself, he was heavily depressed person most of his life, fame might have been difficult to cope with

[@nuke97]

Damn. She does not look a day past 30. Jonesy's Juke Box on 95.5FM in Los Angeles is a fucking awesome program!!!! Love you man!

[@jakehughes735]

I don't blame johnny from walking out on her

[@dixgun]

Great political analysis from Steve at the end. Good interview as well. Nice to Jonesy as interviewee.

[@cedricduguay8492]

how come you start an interview bashing someone .. wow someone got hurt and i dont think it was JR

[@brianpetschow5159]

What's wrong with rotten, he's the man

[@Cryogenian]

Have a whole new respect for Johnny Rotten after listening to this interview.

[@beefheart1410]

The honest voice of The Sex Pistols

[@guidoahsam8043]

kep drinking th koolaid

[@raytrusty8618]

Provide some sort of link or proof for this assertion please!

[@beefheart1410]

Ray Trusty 40 years of reading, watching and listening to just about everything published and released re The Sex Pistols and first generation British Punk Rock.

[@boomerhgt]

Gus Grissom What a lot of nonsense

[@heighwaysonthewing]

Beefheart1 to be fair they ALL are honest not one of them isn't

[@leedsboy64]

A interview is a 2 way thing and becomes worthless if you can only ask certain things JL often walks off of them mainly so people talk about him over the years i have come to have far more respect for the brilliant Steve Jones who is far more real and genuine than his ex buddy

[@williamr3840]

What an appalling interviewer -- she's unbearable!

[@cambs0181]

It's Fox!

[@jazzisforpainting4928]

She sounds like has a mouth full of marbles whenever she provinces her 'R's.

[@neonknees]

She talked like this on MTV , too.

[@MetFansince]

Steve Jones on Fox News. Who would imagine that!

[@olgui375]

And now Pistol, based on his memoir, also will be on FX

[@VanielDeeform]

I didn’t know that about Steve wanting to join The Clash. It would’ve been amazing if they’d cut him involved for Cut The Crap and would’ve enhanced the record with them aiming for more Punk Rock direction and made for an exciting creative collaboration too.

[@slashtrio]

Steve jones seems like a pretty cool guy, doesn’t really put on a front, seems genuine. I can’t stand Kennedy but I think she’s not far off about rotten. While I at times find him entertaining, I think he tries too hard and seems a bit too egotistical. I was a big fan of the pistols in the 80s and think they created something unique that stands the rest of time pretty well. In a way I think the fact that they only existed a few years and only made one album adds to their allure.

[@terrythekittie]

two albums.....three, if you count the 'Filthy Lucre Live' album...maybe a fourth album in Bhutan for all we know.

[@Eleventhearlofmars]

terrythekittie one proper album, the swindle was bollocks, but bollocks wasn’t a swindle 😆

[@lonlevinholler74]

Johnny is authentic, she asked him stupid questions that were written for her by a clueless staffer. That's why he walked out

[@thorus528]

AFAIK, Steve Jones didnt even play on "Never Mind the Bollocks". Its was the guitar player of Sioux and the Banshees who did.

[@secretspurs]

This bitch is something else. Why not tell the full story? Who is the one making it all about them here? Basically, John Lydon LOVED Sid, he was his best mate, but John ALWAYS hated what Sid became. John HATED how heroin destroyed his best mate & he has spoken out against it for a long time. He did not want anything of that to be associated with himself or the Pistols as, in John's own words, it was the total opposite of what they were about. He believes in life & living to the fullest, & Sid's demise on heroin was all about ending his life, particularly once Nancy died. Now, John was to be doing interviews to promote his new book and it happened to be the day after Kurt Cobain shot & killed himself. John went on the Conan O'Brien show and was asked a very similar question, & he answered it with typical Lydon honesty. It seems that that honesty upset a lot of people. However, John is a complicated character. He LOVED Sid but HATED what he had become, and with Kurt he REALLY hated how this guy (who idolised Johnny by the way) who decided to end his life in a dramatic way, after struggling with heroin, was again being compared to Sid as if it were some Sex Pistols legacy. So Johnny had said what needed to be said on the Conan show, upset a bunch of people who were weirdly hoping for him to be somehow sympathetic when it is a subject he was distinctly blunt & unsympathetic over even when it was about Sidney, & then this dumb cow goes and asks him the same fucking question? What did she expect! John adamantly wants his message, his legacy, to be about living your life, enjoying yourself & people keep asking him about heroin addiction, suicide and death! He came on her show to promote his book, Kurt blowing his head off had NOTHING to do with him ffs

[@TheTestingGrounds]

If you use terms like "jerk face" I'd walk out on an interview with you also. A professional interviewer would know that when you are interviewing someone of the magnitude of John Lydon he doesn't want to be asked questions about Kurt Cobain when he could be in a pub talking to real folks.

[@cleanfreak2005]

Go to 0:54 when you want to hear Jonesy finally aloud to speak.

[@antonyfrost2541]

Don't blame Johnny for walking out on this she seems to have an inflated sence of self importance

[@tynkirbell599]

Like most yank interviews

[@bangtwister]

She should interview herself......her Ego would like it.

[@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504]

bangtwister she might walk out on herself though

[@excavator880]

Let's be honest !,,,we are not here because of HER! I like to have a beer or two with Steve !, l still listen to the pistols to remind me of the energy and frustration I had back in the day, I've just turned 58 still got the energy and frustrations so long live Steve and Johnny God save the Queen💂😜

[@i.cuthbert1003]

Johnny hurt her feelings. lol

[@anaccount8474]

"I think it's coke or pepsi" - best summary of politics ever.

[@TheGreatAlan75]

Jonesy is the coolest guy in the history of rock. Phil Lynott too

[@dalerbsr.5061]

Oh man Steve said it awesome; Reference USA politics is a bunch of nonsense either side, thinks its Coke or Pepsi, thinks there's bigger strings pulling the puppets! lmao, so frickin true!

[@christopherh5801]

I hardly ever watch Kennedy but after seeing how she talks down about the Lydon interview I will not watch her in the future.

[@69zenos1]

Kennedy is ANNOYING!!!

[@PsychoSeal1]

I wonder if Steve smashed that fox host to bits after this interview.

[@petermaxwell2965]

Hey hey ..my granny loved the pistols !

[@guitarofdestiny]

Steve Jones is hilarious, cool guy too

[@Backup218]

Id like to hang out with Steve and Paul. Glenn also. Glenn probably the sanest out of em all from the get go.

[@btothet3377]

Johnny did well to last 20 seconds with this bird - she gives you right GBH round the ear’ole

[@jpullen2415]

Talk about knives out when JR when he isn't there to return fire ... Sums her style up 🤷‍♂️

[@offaxisdude]

Great Book ....a true legend !

[@legslewis783]

I think that was a ridiculous question to ask.How bloody stupid.Good on him for not going along with her shallow bullshit!

[@Min-xm8tp]

Wow, 24 seconds and I 'm off, love you Steve but....Nah!

[@jonjennings13]

Jones is really nice (diplomatic) to her despite her trying to be hip chick (fail)

[@shaunmcgee4204]

Jonesy’s a gem! 💎

[@hyena131]

The Bird's Nest on King's Road now a posh restaurant and bar called The Ivy, full of Chelsea dahlings...

[@hyena131]

@Let's Go Brandon Why?

[@hyena131]

@Let's Go Brandon You're answering a question with a question. And I think you can do better. What do you know about the Bird's Nest/The Ivy on King's Road?

[@hyena131]

@Let's Go Brandon Fair enough. But for better - or worse - times/things change. And our ability to accept this/move on defines us. You clearly miss your youth.

[@hyena131]

@Let's Go Brandon <

[@hyena131]

@Let's Go Brandon Right. This from you (ha!) - a question avoiding, comment deleting fukkwittt with an anime avatar. Calm down, sweetie...

[@carltonflange9390]

Whoever this woman is... LOL... No wonder Lydon walked out on her! She's a fucking TERRIBLE interviewier! Hope Steve got to do what he does with people like this ;-)

[@81millionvotes]

Love Steve..such a cool guy!

[@AndyB1286]

I don't know the interviewer from outside this interview, but despite what others say I think she does fine. I've certainly seen worse. And Steve is good to listen to 👍

[@markdoughty8780]

Wise words from Mr Steve Jones...

[@Drjackdempsey9644]

Trying to do the Trump bait. Trump is more punk than Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten combined. Kudos to Steve Jones for saying I don’t get into politics. He’s right Coke or Pepsi. Love Jonesy, always have.

[@rickmerchant1835]

I really wish Sid Vicious was still alive he's a true legend.

[@Skin-ve2tt]

Vicious was a twat. Steve Jones is the TRUE LEGEND...He had to cover for Vicious' shit bass playing at live gigs. The "womble" Chris Spedding also covered for the smack head when the Pistols played live. "NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS" would be my desert island disc.

[@marguskiis7711]

If Sid is alive he would be just a old man giving stupid interviews.

[@niks7643]

Rick Merchant I'm a huge Sex Pistols fan but what did Sid do exactly to make him a legend? He was a junkie who couldn't play the bass in a legendary band he was a part of for a year. He contributed nothing musically other than a few covers during a solo career that lasted less than a year. A heroin addict who murdered his girlfriend and was dead at 21 is furthest thing from legendary. Sid was a loser.

[@DizzyKizzy64]

Rick Merchant no he's not, I was about for the days of punk..he wasn't a legend, Kurt was a legend, Janis a legend, Marc Bolan a legend, did couldn't fucking play

[@DizzyKizzy64]

I mean sid

[@microtonalbanana7235]

She dosent know why johnny walked out?!? Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@eltoro969]

Still today she doesn't get it. That tells a lot about her intelligence.

[@philmstud2k]

A Fox station showcasing a punk rocker? Things really are topsy-turvy these days.

[@skaboosh]

he's on the money about politics.... I think everyone would want to be a friend of this cool guy

[@TomTom-so6hc]

John had to run off and do his TV adverts for butter

[@astrix1014]

Prince over rated.

[@Ryang403]

didnt kurt die in 94??

[@linbennett4]

exactly what i was thinking .

[@linbennett4]

just checked , we are right . just about sums her up ! dumb.

[@jamiewulfyr4607]

Yeah.I was coming down off acid when I heard it on the 5.00am news.I remember it well.It was kinda like the Gen X version of "Where were you when Kennedy died?"

[@cambs0181]

I noticed that.

[@made1nhvn]

whats with this host???

[@TheNobbynoonar]

“ I think it’s Coke or Pepsi-there’s bigger strings pulling the puppets”.

[@simeonsamuel8495]

She still continued the interview talking about other people not his book or the Pisstols .

[@pandsdirect]

Used to REALLY love "The Jukebox". Not so much now. Who's slinging Trial Attorney Spots on the Radio? ...least John shows his eyes in an interview. God bless.

[@forevernow9459]

Wait, Lemmy died 2015. Bowie 2016. How could his friend be working with Lemmy in 2016 when bowie died? Was he trolling

[@paulpatmac]

Johnny has his quirks for sure - not perfect by any stretch but I'm just trying to work out who the interviewer is or thinks she is?

[@exb.r.buckeyeman845]

Hi Steve, can you cast your mind back to 1977, you were all at Penzance at the Go Karts, when you were given the last lap sign, and one of you came in flat out and hit the Armco barrier at 30 mph, and just stood up and walked off.

[@nashanator100]

You can just tell she’s never listened to any punk music without feeling that she needs too...

[@michaelbeswick9637]

Without John Lydon, Steve Jones would still be a nobody.

[@lysanderofsparta3708]

And vice versa.

[@marguskiis7711]

He is barely 60 but looks like 80.

[@alb3902]

“My dogs name” I would have walked out of that interview

[@thinkpositive2393]

Great work Jonesy.

[@MichaelReedAstrology]

Amen Steve 5:45 'I think there are bigger strings pulling the puppets.'

[@iggypopisgod9]

she is annoying...i would have walked out...Lydon is a genius

[@georgeedward1226]

"A dumptruck full of nepalm." Somebody actually gets paid to write these lame metaphors. Scary.

[@neilburns8869]

I don't really think that Steve actually hates Johnny he just doesn't want to spend any real time with him anymore. I think it's a case that they are probably two very different people these days and he would rather just be left in peace to do his own thing. Also, he touches on Johnny being extremely self-centred and narcissistic which I don't really imagine Steve particularly enjoys or anyone else for that matter.☹😠

[@donharrold1375]

What an annoying voice she has. Why does she keep raising the volume of her voice randomly?

[@deanl0]

Yeah Man ''The biggest strings are pulling them puppets''