What if an Attorney Knows His Client is Lying? Ep. 6.626

What happens if an attorney ACTUALLY KNOWS their client is lying?
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@technoxtreme178]

If they gave me a dollar for every reasonable time the word reasonable appears in statutes and rules, I'm reasonably sure I'd be unreasonably rich.

[@Rhuidian]

It's a reasonable word to use.

[@danielhoward8354]

sounds reasonable

[@skippyi6969]

LMFAO

[@alpheusmadsen8485]

I bet each field has their favorite words to abuse. In mathematics, it's "normal" this and "normal" that, with it almost certainly guaranteed that something "normal" in one branch is *not* related to something "normal" in another. And "regular" is close behind ....

[@billh.1940]

Legal ethics, an oxymoron! Please find a reasonable man, I am reasonable, he's not!

[@christophermcelligott1593]

Something I read once: "What most of us end up seeing and believing is that the lawyer's job consists of, not the provision of the best possible defense that the accused can get nor the pursuit of justice, but using as many technicalities and loopholes as possible to have the case so narrowly defined that it becomes nothing more than a big game between the prosecution and the defense, with the judge not as the impartial facilitator, but as the referee of a boxing match. When evidence is ruled inadmissible, when there are seemingly endless delays, when obviously guilty defendants go free, most of us can't perceive this as justice, but as legal maneuvering. And lawyers are at the forefront of launching appeals to overturn convictions and having precedents interpreted so narrowly or so broadly that they seem unrecognizable. We want a justice system, but what we have is a legal system; and lawyers are the agents who prevent it by making sure that Lady Justice 'can't see the forest for the trees.' "

[@aleksandrbmelnikov]

Legal does not mean just nor fair, only that something is of or pertains to law. Notice how they don't make illegal writing pads? Or as someone once told me, Ill-Eagle is a sick bird.

[@renektonftw]

🐊

[@creativecraving]

The basis for a lot of legal maneuvering in criminal cases is that no matter how bad the individual's crime, it's much worse if the government commits a crime in order to obtain evidence.

[@harveywallbanger3123]

"A big game between the prosecution and the defense" It's actually even worse. Not even a game, more like a play where the stars write the script up amongst themselves and take turns switching roles while the audience sits there mute. The system is so oversaturated with caseload that prosecutors, defense attorneys and judges are all aware that they are on the same team: the team of order, "the legal system". The game encourages them to screw each other, but they NEVER screw the system, because it's what pays their bills and justifies their existences. ALL of them. Put a Judge, a D.A. and a defense attorney in the same room for long enough and they'll all agree that the real enemy is not crime itself - it's anything that might drain the money and power out of their industry.

[@pkobalt]

There's the story about the criminal defense attorney who when asked how many guilty people's he's defended says "Zero, I don't do appeals cases, all my clients are innocent until the end of the case."

[@samjordan8800]

Innocent, I doubt. Not guilty? Now *that* makes sense! There's a biiig difference!

[@billytaylor6604]

I doubt they would ever say Innocent, they would say Not Guilty

[@drpinky504]

There's an interesting interpretation of "innocent until proven guilty ". I never thought about how far that goes. I would say that at appeal the burden of proof shifts to the defense if found guilty at trial.

[@paulcollyer801]

@@samjordan8800, Scotland has a verdict of Not Proven, in so much as the jury think they’re guilty but not enough evidence

[@TimeSurfer206]

@@samjordan8800 Yes there is. And THAT is why you will NEVER see a verdict of "Innocent." The only two verdicts allowed from a Court are, "Guilty, " and "Not Guilty."

[@caramanico1]

I'm not a lawyer, but you have me completely hooked, Steve. Fascinating stuff!

[@thomasbrown9699]

I'm hooked too!

[@itatane]

It's a good thing to have Ethics 101 as the first class in law school. Sometimes I wonder if it should be required to have a refresher course every so often... Edit: Especially for prosecuting attorneys.

[@benvarela4472]

Morseo for Family Court Attorneys

[@Gary2873]

Ethics 101 should probably be the first class in any degree

[@heroesandzeros7802]

Especially for judges.

[@thornmatthew8395]

How about defense attorneys?

[@rekietabeatslc9980]

Binger was sent Ethics books 🤣

[@karenshroyer7417]

My late friend,was a criminal case lawyer and explained this to me.You had explained it somewhat better.Thanks Love your program.

[@1.21JJWatts]

"A very long answer to what appears to be a simple question." Welcome to law.

[@Droppedpocket-987]

I love how the thumbnail looks like you are giggling, as if to say "of course they're lying!"

[@rafgomez333]

Great video, Steve!!! I've been an attorney for many many years, but it's always good to refresh these too familiar concepts. Thanks much,

[@justabigbaby]

Excellent examples. Above and beyond. That was fun. For some odd reason reminds me of your mechanic story tasked with rotating the elders pristine caddies tires. When a block or two down the wheel came off and passed them down the street. The mechanic said that he had done the rotation, but didn't see any order to tighten the lugs.

[@margaretstoner4701]

Dear Mr.Letho. THANK YOU. You make me smile. THANK YOU again.Do most people with common sense not know that when we are honest with you. You benefit us better.Honesty is my only policy.THANK YOU ❤

[@margaretstoner4701]

@@FriendlyNeighborhoodNitpicker I apologize. I SPELL WRONG SOMETIMES ⚘

[@Linghunt2]

I like this type video, touching all types of info as you go thru it.

[@disarmingset66]

yea don't always agree with him but i always listen!!

[@gsmith207]

hes great.

[@SubPablum]

Manson fired his lawyer everyday until he got one that objected to every half of every sentence the prosecutor said. He liked him. Best trial ever.

[@paulyoung181]

Seems like there is no simple question when it comes to law. I enjoy listening and the education!

[@davidchristensen1219]

Steve, have you ever done a video on "due process" and the requirements of the government to fulfill that obligation.

[@kenrodmelrocity4241]

I dated a lawyer. I remember being with a group of her fellow lawyer friends one time as they were talking about other lawyers. One of the first characteristics they discussed about other lawyers was whether or not they were ethical.

[@davejohnson7432]

I had an attorney, public defender, when I was younger, that is a very prominent attorney today in our community. She was assigned my case, and through our interview, she came up with a story that I could use that would put doubt in the jurors minds. I was 14 at the time. It was a criminal case. She must have missed that ethics course, or thought I was hot. But it helped, and I was found not guilty.

[@donfronterhouse4759]

That sounds more like the tactics of a prosecutor. They develop "a theory of the case" and then elicit testimony from 'witnesses" to sell it. It's more about imagination than fact. That's not to say that defendants are necessarily innocent,but they are, more often than not, over charged. And yes that term is a thing.

[@danieldudzik6470]

You have demonstrated why law school takes so long to complete. There are very few short answers to the law and you must be trained to examine every action from every aspect. Like a Chess master , you consider every move and counter move.

[@BrianWanda]

Good question with one lawyer in the room, great question with 100 lawyers in the room. Also: missed opportunity for a guest politician lawyer to join the episode.

[@thebrinx9632]

7:26 Heh, heh-heh heh, heeh. Trio of chuckles...I love it! Love your videos Mr. Lehto, If you had a twenty-minute video on how a clothes pin worked....I'd watch it! (and I'd click the "like" button).

[@samjordan8800]

"That's right. Not even MacGyver could fix this one." Bwahahahahaha! (Whoever she is, tell that woman she has a beautiful and SOOTHING voice!)

[@wrecklass]

On a related note, we all know it is illegal to lie to investigators like the police or FBI. Yet for some reason those same people are allowed to lie to those they are investigating. Why is that? Steve, perhaps you could do a show on why members of law enforcement are allowed to do what the people they are interrogating are not. I can provide examples if you need.

[@pattypetty9615]

Well the fact is all you hafto say is I'm not answering that! Lawyer, Lawyer, Lawyer! You do not hafto answer anything in an interrogation or even in court! In court you can take the 5th!

[@terrycrowell4303]

The truth be told, A poor man is charged with the exact same crime as a rich man,Who [ALWAYS] wins?????????

[@curtiswilson3597]

Enjoy this channel very much. My own situation isn't the accused lying, but the ethics of the attorney was in question. Texas Gulf coast. A family member had an altercation with a neighbor and was charged with Class A with bodily injury. We hired a defense attorney, paid his retainer. This went on for more than a few months and a few court appearances which were rescheduled by the prosecution. The attorney approached us with a plea bargain, which was no bargain. When it became clear that the DA wanted to go to trial, we found out that the plea bargain was what our attorney was proposing, not the DA. This included months of jail, apology letter, etc... in a case that we felt was a self defense case. At this time the DA ramped up the charge to Felony. At this point our attorney called us to his office removing himself from our case because he was appointed a judge in the city the altercation occurred and it would be a conflict of interest that he would be called to question police officers. We got another attorney, paid a new retainer and went to trial. They released the jury for deliberations, they also added the lesser charge of Class A. No felony, but we did get the Class A. This is the issue. I looked at the appointment of the first attorney and he was appointed long before he took our case and should have recused himself and not taken our case. I sued him in small claims court for the amount of the retainer and no surprise he won in that the Judge ruled we paid for the work he put into the case. Two things, he was pushing a jail time, and other things that in the end didn't have to do. We would not have seen jail even with the felony we're told as first time offender with no history. The second was the attorney new he could not go to trial and that is always a likelihood, so he took our case and retainer and wouldn't have been able to represent us properly. This all happened 10 years ago. We then had a civil case and we came out ok there to. We didn't take it any further, but felt the ethics of the lawyer was lacking. Take care

[@curtiswilson3597]

Both prosecutors were fired soon after for withholding evidence in another case.

[@skytechbits]

I love your sarcasm with that laugh 😄

[@UncleKennysPlace]

That's the problem; the first class is ethics, so it's the first forgotten! (I worked for a literal criminal of a lawyer; he was permanently disbarred, died at a young age.)

[@lilacdoe7945]

"When the going gets tough, you don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a 'criminal' lawyer." -Jesse Pinkman

[@marcosaceacevedo]

Each attorney has to take an ethics test before they take the Bar… So they have to keep on top of that… Dirtbags are gunna be dirtbags regardless of profession. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@musashiaharon9808]

Awesome episode! I love the ethical discussion.

[@joshweickum]

Your videos are very entertaining and full of wisdom. keep em coming man. thank you for what you do.

[@thefoolishhiker3103]

All your videos are great but this was my favorite so far. Thanks for making these fantastic videos

[@MrNolanmoser9109]

Steve I’ve really missed those 20+ minute videos like back in your early KZbin days awesome video as usual

[@acrvids]

We deal with the same thing in the Real Estate industry. Whether you’re an agent or a loan officer the first and last thing that we tell trainees is, "Do not break the law." Every now and then we'll get a client who offers to have their paystubs "edited" to help them qualify for the loan. Or they may tell us that they can get other documents forged. And we have to inform them that not only is this illegal, but at some point the validity of the information is going to be checked and verified.

[@bobbobskin]

Steve, I have done immigration law. In many jurisdictions it is a criminal offence to *assist* someone, either knowingly or by negligence, to make an application based on false representations. However, equally, the rules which we operated on stated that we could not refuse to provide work done - if a client demanded it - whether they had paid us or not (I know, no lien, crazy). For us, this meant that we would (occasionally) run into regulatory complaints when the evidence showed that the person lived in one city, and they had claimed to us, for their application, that they lived somewhere (with someone else who they were basing their immigration on) which their bank statements (for example) clearly demonstrated they did not live at. (simply put, they would say they lived in the north of england and all their bank transactions, for 5 years, would show not a single transaction outside of london or on the motorway or long distance coach or train tickets). In these instances, we simply refused to supply, accepted a regulatory complaint for refusal to provide the file, and would argue with the regulator that we could not lawfully comply.

[@StefanHillier]

Answer: They charge their client more. Remember they're called criminal attorneys.

[@insanitysportal6692]

Ha Ha!! :-D

[@seneca983]

Civil attorneys on the other hand know how to behave cordially even when they're downright seething.

[@gorillaau]

Defence attorneys will grab their firearm before leaving the office.

[@TimeSurfer206]

"After consultation with his lawyer." What are these Funny Words you speak, Magic Man? Only time I ever saw my Public Pretender was IN COURT.

[@sped6954]

The very first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this video is the very last point that you brought up just before closing it out, and that it isn't necessisarily a defense attorney's job to get an acquittal for their client, and that they don't have to believe their client either. A defense attorney's main job is to "defend" their client from any number of onslaughts likely to come their way, the most likely of which is themselves. "If you sit down, shut up, and do what I tell you to do, there's a pretty decent chance that I might just be able to get you out of here in 20 years, maybe 17 or 18 if you take a job and behave yourself while you're up." The next most likely threat is from the system to chew them up and shit out the other end. Again, it still isn't always about getting an acquittal, it's just to protect them from the system and assure that regardless of their obvious guilt, they still get a fair trial, and not just crammed through the system to the point that even showing up for court is just a formality.

[@aaronjwalkerga]

Let the client lie!! The cross examination by the Prosecutor will only be that much more hilarious!

[@daniell4501]

Steve, if you haven't seen "the Lincoln Lawyer" then you need to see it. It is similar to what you're talking about in this episode.

[@karlnieberlein6606]

He should explain that movie to us

[@KoJo-qh9od]

Having been involved in the criminal justice system in the past I can tell you some defense attorneys missed the ethics class.

[@rmkscrambler]

My very dishonest aunt once bragged about how her attorney could win any case by continually intentionally delaying it on every minor detail. To the point the prosecution and court would either give up or get so frustrated they would make mistakes causing the case to be thrown out. Is this really something an attorney can get away with?

[@ABT212]

Thank you for another great law video. So a lawyer can and will defend a client he believes is guilty to give him his due process under the law. I guess this is possible because a lawyer doesn't have to prove his client is innocent, he just has to have a reasonable response to the accusations, thereby remaining at arm's length from the truth, so to speak.

[@mrdanforth3744]

Everybody deserves a fair trial. Someone could be guilty and still deserves a chance to speak up for themselves, if there is anything good in their favor. Then the judge weighs the evidence and hands them just as stiff a jolt as they deserve. You could think of a million examples. Here is one. A man is accused of stealing a car. He tells the judge, yes I took the car. My wife was having a baby and I had to rush her to the hospital. At the time I felt I had no other choice. I'm sorry I inconvenienced the owner but I brought it back right away. The judge says, I find you guilty of stealing a car. I have looked at your record and you never stole anything before and never got in trouble before. Therefore I am not going to send you to prison, I am putting you on probation for a year and I sentence you to do 100 hours of community service. And I warn you to go carefully because if you get in trouble in the next year it will go hard on you. So the accused was guilty but he deserved a chance to speak up in his favor and the judge recognized that. I think that makes sense.

[@ABT212]

@@mrdanforth3744 Absolutely. And I think that's just fine.

[@SakuraShirakawa]

You spoke at length about Perjury. My issue would be, what if you are a court appointed attorney and the client tells you outright I committed the murders, I planned them out meticulously and am fully aware of what I have done and feel no remorse or guilt. How do you proceed to represent them ethically since your job is to keep them from or at least reduce jail time. The law states that EVERY person accused has the right to be represented. How do you proceed forward? Do you simply advise the to go for a Mental Instability defense? (Obviously someone who commits heinous acts deliberately with no emotional response to them MUST have issues).

[@dr.jeffreyharris3765]

A former student of mine became a lawyer up in Canada. I asked him if as a lawyer he could suggest various wild theories as to how a crime occurred in an attempt to muddy the waters surrounding his client. He told me that he is not allowed to lead evidence that he knows is not true. Yet I am sure we have all seen many real lawyers on TV (real lawyers not TV shows) doing this. Is there some fine line that they are skirting or are they just outright breaking the rules? Thanks

[@terryrazor5978]

Chatting with a public defender I enquired as to how he defended an obviously guilty defendant without suborning perjury. He answered that he never asked about guilt but would spell out the case against them and ask, "how are we going to defend against this".

[@kurtdanielson993]

I have always thought that a lawyer was there to help a wrongly accused person defend themselves against charges that are not valid, and not to persuade a jury that a guilty person is not guilty. It is in everyone's interest to have people who commit a crime are somehow punished for it and also, to uncover prosecutors and police who may fabricate evidence to convict someone they don't like (why they do this I don't understand, but it does happen).

[@x_Mr_Moose_x]

Hi Steve, I’m an attorney and this situation has come up several times. When it does and once the client takes the stand, attorneys generally are required to just let the client tell their story by prompting them with the question: so, is there anything you would like to tell the court/jury? Or “what would you like to say in your defense?” This lets the judge and prosecutor know (without saying it) that your client is about to lie but because of your ethical obligations and client’s right to testify, you cannot prevent the false testimony. The judge will typically let the client speak uninterrupted, since his attorney cannot conduct a direct examination without facilitating perjury. Once the client is done testifying, his attorney will simply say thank you, no further questions. Then cross examination.

[@wholeNwon]

Of course.

[@husseinyousif5654]

Perjury is a serious crime, be honest, and ethical!

[@richardjafrate5124]

A friend of mine is a criminal defense attorney who has represented murders, drug trafficker's, etc. When people would ask him "How he can you get these really terrible people off?", he would say the following: 1. Just because someone broke the law doesn't make someone guilty, If someone breaks the law they are guilty until the police and state attorney do their jobs and a jury say so. 2. If you do something and the police and state attorney do their jobs, the jury is going to find you guilty and there's nothing I can do for you except ask the judge to give you a room with a view. He then said "That's why I do what I do and why it's important."

[@wholeNwon]

Decades ago I asked my TAX attorney the same hypothetical question. He answered it in about 1 min.! In essence, an attorney cannot participate in perpetrating a fraud upon the court. Then what if the client insisted on testifying falsely? If the attorney cannot withdraw, he cannot participate by asking questions of the client on the stand. I would think that he couldn't even properly call the client to the stand. But that's my own addition.

[@jgunther3398]

good answer to a question we laypeople universally have

[@thornmatthew8395]

Journalists need about 3 classes of ethics per semester

[@wholeNwon]

Not unless you call Fox talking heads "journalists".

[@jimbergen5232]

It must be horrible to be a defense attorney ( public defender ).

[@beatadalhagen]

'... I'm going to lie ...' 'you lie like a rug', said my smarty-pants physics prof.

[@sweetandsouahpork2170]

Surely this doesn't include family law where the attorneys are usually dirty and suggest that the woman lie about her spouse's behavior and domestic abuse for a more favorable result.

[@thorinpalladino2826]

Apparently the reason that the first class is ethics is so that said ethics can be forgotten by graduation.

[@bobbobskin]

Utter rubbish!

[@thorinpalladino2826]

@@bobbobskin Yeah, that is why 90% of lawyers give the other 10% a bad name.

[@jmanko]

A good movie based on this topic is "The Devil's Advocate". When Keanu Reeves knew his client was guilty and still went ahead and defended him, it set off a whole string of events where he was going to be the father of the anti-christ haha. But he got a second chance (most likely from God) and then decided to not represent the guy. Great movie. Al Pacino was a great Lucifer.

[@ipsedixit6015]

A lawyer can defend a guilty client .The prosecution has to make its case. I have heard that if a lawyer knows for sure a client is guilty, the lawyer is not allowed to say the client is innocent; however, the lawyer may argue that there is reasonable doubt. Another question. Is that true.

[@Justanotherandy63]

A lawyer that has damning evidence suppressed due to a "technicality" is no better than a lawyer who knowingly lets their client lie.

[@ronaldmayle1823]

LOL It's the lawyer that teaches his client how to lie on the stand. It happens every day.

[@patchbunny]

Ethics is the first class so by the time you get to the end and graduate you've forgotten it all.

[@ki5rllthreedronefour85]

Someone should link this to Giuliani to watch.

[@hantenfox3357]

Never lie to your attorney. EVER. It’s hard for them to defend you if you lie to them.

[@wholeNwon]

Don't force your attorney to make ethical decisions you don't want him to have to make.

[@wolu9456]

they sure wont try to get you off if you do tell the truth

[@LeahLeahBurch]

Is that a cow bell in the background? Lmao. Moooore cowbelllll

[@snaggl315]

This is common practice in Cook County, Illinois. Those attorneys have no ethics what so ever, even some judges go out to lunch with defense attorneys. The attorneys give their clients lies to tell on the stand

[@wireman4029]

You have some good stories coupled with some adult humor, I enjoy listening to your channel

[@margaretstoner4701]

Hey hello there milk man...i love this gentleman's adrenaline...i 'd hire him in a heartbeat. ⚘

[@nickknickerbocker6415]

@@margaretstoner4701 ❣" NEED more people like him ❣{ check out Katie Porter on KZbin she knows how to ROADBLOCK EVASIVENESS!!} 🍎 (scroll down her videos )

[@keithrosenberg5486]

I was on a jury in criminal case. The defendant took the stand and lied about how the rifle was pointed when he fired it. One of the jurors of his height actually held the rifle the way the defendant said he did. It was not even close to matching the angle of the bullet holes left in two buildings and one truck. We jurors knew he lied from the physical evidence presented. Guilty verdict PDQ.

[@MissLibertarian]

Reminds me of Perry Mason novels. His clients often lied, and at least one confessed to the crime and committed perjury.

[@aporcelaingirl]

Fantastic Finnish flag t-shirt! I used to do volunteer work for my local cat shelter, including PSAs that aired on the radio for fundraising events (some of which I organised!). I never had a dog growing up cos I was badly allergic, but I have to admit I am a cat person through and through. That being said, I fully support rescue efforts and humane shelters of all kinds.

[@kyle1598hffgyfv]

In Ohio, a local lawyer was appointed to defend a guy for murder before the grand jury because no one else would take the case and he worked for the family on non criminal matters. Grand jury made it a capital case, he went to tribunal to withdraw as he lacked qualifications for capital cases. He got appointed as an independent consultant for the defense lawyers since the client refused to talk to the new defense team. Couldn't escape from the case.

[@Dj.MODÆO]

My humble personal opinion: If you know your client is guilty or intends to commit perjury, either convince them to take a plea deal in criminal cases or to settle in civil cases. If they refuse, drop them as a client or withdrawal. However if you merely suspect your client is guilty or may commit perjury when called to the stand, the best thing you can do is either prevent them from testifying as much as possible and tell them to plead the fifth.

[@codemiesterbeats]

7:32 picturing criminal defense attorneys with their fingers in their ears going "lah lah lah lah I can't hear you"

[@marcosaceacevedo]

Excellent!! This vid perfectly fits into my Legal Ethics study material…Would be great to hear Steve do 1.7 for us tho..😅

[@psychastria]

I really have to appreciate the Lionel Hutz action figure on the shelves. Did they also make one for Mr. Burns' blue-haired attorney?

[@blueridgebikeman]

Steve, have you ever represented a client in a criminal case in which the defendant was actually innocent? What was the outcome? We'd love to hear that story.

[@ssureshot]

Then - - - There is Saul Goodman...

[@jblyon2]

So far Saul has disliked this video from 10 different accounts

[@Goatcha_M]

I think the question is more about if they say things on the stand you know to be false based on their confidential testimony but they didn't tell you ahead of time that they planned to lie.

[@ecsciguy79]

You make a point that the first class you took was ethics. Unfortunately, in reality, I think the functional way to view this is 'For graduates/practicing lawyers, Ethics was so long ago I've forgotten it'

[@darkarima]

To me, the much greater question: Why are prosecutors almost never held accountable for deliberately misleading the court (hiding, destroying, or even manufacturing evidence) to convict an innocent person? Theoretically it shouldn't happen... but what do we think will happen when there are high rewards for getting a lot of convictions - and only a minuscule risk of being punished, virtually none while still in power?

[@blubase06]

If your lawyer doesn't know you're lying to begin with then they'll fight tooth and nail for you 🤷

[@roguepithlit]

This depends on where you are. It is not only accepted in Canada, it is encouraged.

[@michaelsommers2356]

A more difficult question, I think, is what happens if the client lies on the stand, the lawyer has good reason to think that it is a lie, but the lawyer did not know in advance that the client was going to lie.

[@stephenfoster7110]

You mean like AH just did to her lawyers? 😂

[@RationalGaze216]

The name Mortimer always makes the think of the book The Ghosts Who Went To School

[@josephtaub20]

Our system of jurisprudence in which we meticulously and fairly empanel 12 good men and true to hear all pertinent evidence necessary to decide who has the best attorney.....

[@bleebu5448]

Every single episode of Perry Mason ... This is the kind of legal education (as a layperson) I come here for.

[@rogerp5816]

Steve, as always a great video. It seems you didn't touch on Rule: 3.3 Candor Toward the Tribunal and how this could or should impact a case where as an attorney you knows or it's come to their attention the testimony given was clearly false. Maybe the subject of a follow on video talking about the responsibility of the attorney to the Tribunal in the pursuit of justice. How does an attorney ethically handle the balance between presenting the best case for their client and not allowing the opposing party being hurt by known perjury of their client? It would seem at times if the attorneys client is allowed to get away with the perjury third parties not even involved in the case could be injured in the future. It seems based on rule 3.3 an attorney has an obligation to both the client and the Tribunal and I'm wondering which is stronger. I'm not an attorney however I think I understand they're are some differences between civil and criminal proceeding and how these rules apply. My comment relates to how rule 3.3(e) works. As I read the the second paragraph of the comments for rule 3.3 it seems the attorney has to tell on his or her client, which to me makes sense in order to maintain the integrity of the court.

[@stevelehto]

I actually did a section on that but the video was too long so I cut it. I'll do a separate video because it is another pet peeve of mine (attorneys who argue things they know to be untrue or incorrect).

[@tjlynch20002000]

Great content Steve !

[@Docinaplane]

This is why I could never be an attorney. My opening statement would become my closing statement.

[@mikefochtman7164]

"Rumpole of the Baily" (British barrister TV show) had a dilemma like this once. His client was trying to admit to him what they had done, and Rumpole kept trying to shut him up. Once his client told him the truth, he had to withdraw. Did not end well for the client.

[@johnallen6039]

It is why Robert Kardashian did not say a word at the trial of the century. He knew OJ was guilty and let the rest of the "dream team" speak.

[@ObscureStuff420]

And he didn't look happy when they found OJ not guilty

[@toolbaggers]

18 seasons (so far) of "Keeping Up With The Kardashians"

[@samjordan8800]

@Timeless Metal Classics Maybe he knew something about wifey Kris and daughter Kim that didn't make him happy.... But in all seriousness, wife Kris Kardashian was close enough friends with Nicole Brown (one of the murder victims) till she claims she was supposed to meet up with Nicole for dinner the night of the murder!

[@jimmieroan9881]

my attorney for years would never ask me if i was guilty, just defended me the best he could

[@vaclavhruza2115]

So if attorney knows client is quilty, but client has the right to not incriminate himself, its alright to let him lie as long as you dont help him.

[@brettsadzewicz1760]

Here's another interesting question on that. Say your perjury hypothetical is the case and this particular lawyer sticks to certain morals: Lawyer requests to withdraw - Court/judge orders him not to/tells him no - Lawyer then refuses the courts order and withdraws anyways with a new explanation/statement of: I am retiring from practicing criminal defense law (I.E. Lawyer immediately decides they are done with those types of cases and will only do contract law etc... in the future).

[@catherinerhea6336]

*BLESS YOU STEVE!!!* My ex *DID NOT* want to comply with *ANY OF THE ETHICAL CONDUCT NOR LAWFUL CONDUCT RULES* when the idiot decided the thing to do was file *11 FALSE CHARGES* against me, *THEN INSIST THEIR LEGAL AID ATTORNEY PRESENT THEM TO THE COURT WITH ZERO EVIDENCE ON ANY LEVEL!!!* That poor lawyer got into such heated screaming matches with the ex, that the court decided to sequester them into a consultation room with a guard outside the door, because they were sooooooo loud, they became a disruption for the ENTIRE FLOOR!!! It should be noted the the ex is a diagnosed psychopathic covert NARCISSIST who had zero intention of backing down... My lawyer FORCED the production of ANY evidence to validate any of the charges BEFORE anything could proceed (back to your Ethics & Lawful Procedure Rules), & their entire case collapsed on itself- the entirety was forced OUT of the court & all 11 charges were withdrawn... That legal aid lawyer *BURNED THE RUBBER SOLES OFF HIS SHOES* he ran so fast to formally hand the court his *RESIGNATION* of Council on the case, telling my lawyer... "They are ABSOLUTELY *NUTS!!!* I rest my case... 💜

[@Bonno460xvr]

If the glove doesn’t fit, you must aquite. This a good example of you don’t believe your client

[@frankhoffman3566]

I bet such clients underestimate the courtroom. There, a judge sits above you. An armed bailiff stands there openly. A dozen jurors stare at you intently. Smart attorneys, who likely expected you to try that, ready their prepared examination.. It ain't your living room. If you think you can commit perjury convincingly there, you're dreaming. Your guilty demeanor will make it worse.

[@TheAdymiller]

What happens if you know your client committed a crime, he admitted to it, and someone else has already been found guilty of that crime and is serving time in prison for it?

[@williewonka6694]

Surely, this is strictly a hypothetical situation that would never actually happen.

[@opassem]

"Woah, you mean to tell me that perhaps I SHOULDN'T break the law in an attempt to prove that I HAVEN'T broken the law!?" 🤯🤔🤔🤔🤯 some people shouldn't be permitted to appear in public without a legal representative chaperoning them at all times. lmao.

[@jeffsutherland4380]

Sir, I was traveling not driving... that will be the basis of my defense

[@aleksandrbmelnikov]

Guy entered a lawyer's office, and said he needs help b/c he murdered his wife. Lawyer says, I want you to leave my office, and when you walk back in, tell me how you didn't do it.

[@pattypetty9615]

I wanted to be a Lawyer when I was young (high school)! But as I was young for me it was about defending people who are innocent! Well I found out it isn't about Guilt or Innocense it's about defending your client to the best of your ability!

[@davephillips9389]

All well and good, can't wait for these rules to apply to corp lawyers.