STICKY M8 CRANKSHAFTS! A Harley Flywheel PSA - Baxters Garage

[@jamzholm]

As always, what great information! Only wish all technicians were as competent and knowledgeable as you are. Love the videos!!

[@KevinBaxter]

Thanks for the kind word sir all the best

[@edmundwasilewski]

It appears that the motor factory does not had any form of "Quality control" practices in place 🤔 once gain, Sir, you are an engine Professor. The most educated person i have ever had the pleasure of watching.

[@larrys.3992]

Kevin, my M8 114 just passed 25K. Say a prayer for 😂 it!

[@AndyPat239]

i'd like a harley but scared of potential rebuild costs down the track

[@2low2live]

Kevin, spot on here. I had a top end, cam, lifters etc. put on a low mileage 2018 M8 by a local independent mechanic. Updated to latest version oil pump installed along with cam. Bottom end was not checked and about 1200 miles in had tremendous knocking in engine. I pulled the top end off myself along with primary drive (was some thought noise could be in primary...) Just as you showed tight rods, top end thrashed. Cost me the several thousand for the top end and cam work, then many thousands more for a replacement motor. Sold the bike with a crate motor in it. Staring over with a 2022 117 Street Glide... Peace of mind is worth the cost.

[@deweydodo6691]

Seems too early to be watching problems with M8's and low milage .

[@lpd1snipe]

Very informative. I'm an old guy still riding my 1949 EL Panhead. I have no M8 bikes, so none of these issues.

[@geraldgoodiii6993]

I just realized I wasn’t subscribed even tho I get your vids nonstop on my suggested vids (I watch many of yours) SUBSCRIBED NOW sorry about that

[@thomasbartlett3409]

Great video Kevin, as usual. The showstopper from owning a HD is the stock M8 engine quality. First, it's not a true liquid cooled engine and is crudely built from the factory. Factory quality is not the same caliber as the metric engines, as demonstrated in your videos. HD focuses on cosmetics, sound and style, while metric's focus on engineering, quality and the highest reliable performance. The HD M8 is a wonderful platform to build upon with lots of potential, even though its air cooled. If I bought a 2024 CVO , the engine would be in your shop while still in the crate for a blueprinted makeover with an S&S or Darkhorse crankshaft and the best aftermarket parts for reliability, before I would trust it .

[@dalewarren9885]

When I built my 02 FXDX out to a 117" I went with an S&S crank but had been thinking of changing to an M8 . Had thoughts of a 124 kit, mild cam and nothing too extreme, now I'm thinking that maybe I should hang on to my twin cam.

[@ferdinanddolliver4333]

Would be interesting to know if any of the pistons. Came out of motorcycles with vented carburetors into catch cans . Or for that matter, the vented transmission top.

[@d.sandell2555]

Your a handy guy to have around...👍

[@craigkemmerzell5741]

Good show I like to see a Twin cam.build 😅

[@KevinBaxter]

There's a ton of them in my library if you roll back to previous videos. Many in great detail

[@kerrylewis2581]

I'm looking forward to the members live coming soon. I also found the Starrett contact point set I want to send to you.

[@KevinBaxter]

Me too my friend thank you. If you don't mind shoot me an email or give me a call. I'm not sure how to get in touch with you and thank you for locating that contact Point set. I really appreciate it pal

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

Whether it was twin cam or the Rushmore the M8 I'm not familiar with them other than watching videos and reading about things. But it seems like there's always always upgrades it's like the factory releases stuff and hopes for the best... I think this is why I like my Evo and my shovelhead. Now my shovelhead sometimes tends to be cantankerous but.... I think I'll stick with them....🏍️✌️

[@roncoburn7771]

Great video.I have a stanley gardner GRC bottom end with moonshine/cp rods she is right some of These m8's from the factory have terrible ring seal problems.its like you buy a new one and have to pull it down to make it right.

[@aaroncox3340]

When I did my 21 ultra limited at 8000km for a cam upgrade (myself) I checked pinion run out only, should have done the other side as well. The pinion was at 2 & half thousand, bit still would have been beneficial to check the other side for sure. Thanks Kevin.

[@KevinBaxter]

There is no substitute for knowing for sure

[@dougcox2537]

Very interesting video. I am sold after watching this. If we were not doing a full build on mine, I would pay to do this. I am assuming that all of this would apply to the twin cam engine.

[@KevinBaxter]

This factoid applies to all engines honestly. Even though we are doing a full build on yours this would still be checked during the tear down. Every teardown is an education in wear patterns problems and noises even if they don't present themselves as mechanical failures during normal operation. Every opportunity for learning is a great opportunity

[@tobpitbull]

That’s the way it should be done BUT.. IF… the crank is tight, sticking, loose, etc… customer need to realize the price on that build just went up about 2500.00 +/- depending on mech. most won’t do crank in house ( they should) and send off to a couple companies in the US which is expensive, 150 just in shipping. Lower end should be looked at.. great, proper suggestion! Good job Kevin with tip.

[@Sam590ss]

Thanks to you as well, Kevin. Hang in there brother!

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you, I will

[@redwine1671]

Thank you

[@efakter1]

Now are these motors that are sitting on your bench been either cammed or modified in anyway or are they complete stock motors?

[@KevinBaxter]

These are completely stock engines.

[@heybruh3274]

@@KevinBaxter 😢 doesn't inspire any confidence. Hopefully the VVT is more solid. I will just wait and see how it goes before buying another bike. I don't consider $25k + a consumable item type of purchase

[@martincvitkovich724]

My Indy cautioned me that my 2003 RKP with 118,000 miles may be hanging up like that. Suggested a complete overhaul. I sold it accordingly and bought an EVO Sportater

[@tombrocco5377]

Harley cares more about selling low quality products for premium dollars. Look at the CVO line of bikes. Beautiful paint jobs, lots of chrome, and some extra add-on bits out of the catalog but the internals are mostly the same. All for nearly double the price of the standard models. But that poor quality keeps guys like Kevin and many other shops employed. And Kevin is a master at his craft. His videos are a master class of Harley engine building. Would like to see him build a complete motor using no Harley parts at all. And I would bet that motor would have near .000 run-out and no sticking crankshafts even after 50,000 miles.

[@blackvettespeeder]

Awesome as always, learned a lot from this video, thanks again for the insight

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you very much sir.

[@raymondjohnson6496]

Which one is better in a fat boy the twin cam or the Milwaukee eight can I get an answer

[@Mikey_556]

Air cooled is like a boat motor they are designed to wear out or eventually grenade, stay up on maintenance and hope fore the best.

[@Festus69]

Kevin I like hat from east Hickman fire and rescue .

[@frankponte4031]

Why are these late 2019+ M8's still sumping if they have the new, updated oil pump installed as OEM?

[@KevinBaxter]

It can still happen for many reasons outside of the camshaft plate and oil pump

[@Rick92153]

So to show my ignorance, will you show the breakdown of the cause of the “stickiness”? I’m guessing either a bearing or a crank issue?

[@heybruh3274]

are these issues only relevant to HD or is it an issue with VTwin motor design? thanks

[@johnbaird2395]

Do you have a compensator preference video installed

[@Stevie-F]

Got to ask why a Harley so often fails. Even a good one seems worn around 50000 miles. Bought a Road king classic in 2010. Only had it a few years as moved bike to bike etc. looking to get a Road king special but so many videos of too many failures it’s got me doubting the decision. Lovin your videos btw. With you were here in UK. Would be great having a top engine builder 🙏🏼

[@cholber1]

Is the sticking because the crankshaft had moved from true center I guess you call it? When the crankshaft is pressed together is it cause where it’s pressed together it spun on its self causing the rods to lock? I hope that makes sense. lol thanks Kevin.

[@KevinBaxter]

It could be because of the rods the bearings the flywheel halves which effectively would lead to excessive run out between the halves. It could also be due to crankshaft bearings which I'll discover once I split these cases

[@cholber1]

@@KevinBaxter thanks Kevin!

[@ChasCrewChief]

I agree. With the compensator not present won’t the flywheels move towards the right case and drag and feel resistance of the pinion side assembly ie oil pump, cam plate plus the .010” cam end play taken up? My opinion includes the comp bolt with machined spacers to replicate the flywheels true position when rotating. Following the same theory as torque plates on cylinders for true readings

[@JCunningham21]

I thought you were going to say to inspect those out of spec drop in cylinders O and if anyone buys a kit with CP Carrilo pistons. the CPs require .0030 min cylinder clearance. not the .0025 that those drop in cylinders come with. CP pistons are 2618-T61 aluminum not 4032 so they expand more then 4032 aluminum pistons do.

[@browngreen933]

Wouldn't a sticking rod and flywheel assembly have been caught during the factory inspection process? Or did the problem develop after the bike was put into service?

[@KevinBaxter]

More than likely the problem developed over time

[@denis9272]

⭐️

[@vf12497439]

I knew a guy who destroyed his M8 in a couple months. Called it junk and returned to his beloved twin cams. Keep in mind he runs the dog shit out of his engines. He is the guy who keeps two or three fresh engines on the shelf because he will scatter an engine. He is in a club so his bike must be running. He has three bikes so he is always running and rotating bikes.

[@JCunningham21]

I wish I could afford to do a crank right now. I have the motor out of the bike for a 128. runouts .005 on both ends. Redoing the top end because the cylinders were not clearance right. Im sure the Daytona cylinders are clearance @ .0025" and the CP pistons I got with the kit need .003"

[@Chaplain161]

Hello Kevin. Does pulling the stator rotor off a twin cam or M8 require a special tool?

[@KevinBaxter]

No special tool really... just something to get a firm grasp on it to pull. The stator magnets are strong.

[@tla5859]

Another great PSA kevin, a couple questions, on the motors that have the issue, will you be fixing them? if so can't wait to hear the cause. Next I have a '19 107, don't plan on any engine mods, and whats your best guess, if no issues pop up might a motor with this binding last any decent length of time? say 50,000 miles

[@KevinBaxter]

All are getting full builds. As far as timeframe with these issues uncorrected??....its anyones best guess.

[@tla5859]

Great on the full build. I hope you let us know what the cause of the binding was. Thanks​@KevinBaxter

[@distancejunkiemonkey4491]

PSA- if you own an M8, you must go the extra distance on preventing engine failure. I have a 2019 Ultra 114 M8 with 50K miles, that now is getting an entire new engine, via warranty, for an oil pump failure. This engine was properly maintained on time. Basically the oil pump was insufficient and destroyed the engine over time. It also sumped under extended high rpm operation.

[@darksoulscorner]

41k miles on mine and have to replace the whole top in.

[@CapnDrift]

With the engine in the frame couldn't one rotate the crank with the tranny in neutral? I understand there would be added drag, but a person should be able to feel a problem bearing... I would think.

[@KevinBaxter]

In an extreme case I would agree with you. For example if the crank was locking up as you saw in the video yes certainly you would feel that without removing the primary. There was a second point to the video to demonstrate that sprocket shaft run out also needed to be checked. In order to do that you must remove the compensating sprocket and primary chain. As far as the clutch goes yes you could run it in neutral and rotate it through not only do you need to overcome the drag from the clutch chain and primary chain tensioner but you also have the stator and rotor assembly. Those magnets are very strong and through rotation it can be difficult to distinguish between the near clunk that you feel as the magnets pass over the stator versus something being up with the bearing. Again we're not just feeling for an extreme case where the crank can lock up we're also looking for tight and loose spots.

[@boscodog4358]

What was the problem with those tight crank assembly?

[@KevinBaxter]

It's not sprocket shaft run out at this time so it could be pinion shaft or connecting rod bearing or main bearing issues. To be determined in a future video

[@mitchelldarnell5334]

Oklahoma old man here..

[@chrisbarbour9533]

I never get notifications from the other guys anymore

[@kirk32216]

My m8 stage 3 114 just had major failure flywheel damage and no esp isn't going to cover declined the claim.

[@kurtengel6029]

08 UC SE stage 3 pro kit 10.5:1 forged pistons se259 cam heavier valve springs and se clutch plates she honks. 50k And i can proudly say original compensator, original cam chest, original tensioners and guides, stock cam chest stock oil pump, you get the idea, i haven't experienced any of the fear mongering failures that utube is full of. Mostly se synthetic, i've tried the other stuff couple of times, so my point is for all the sh!t talking of se parts, i say enjoy spending and mix matching your after market parts, when i was a little boy dad opened the hood on the 77 olds, and you know what it said on the air filter, keep your GM car all GM, this applied to my HD since new and it hasn't steered me wrong. Rant over

[@mickc4633]

👍

[@fighttechnician8676]

I have a 2017 Street Glide 107 with 20,000 miles with a stage 2. Thinking it maybe time to sell it.

[@stephengibbs4372]

And they said AMF had bad quality control 😂.

[@gregmannos]

Im shocked the motor company dont pay you to not make videos 😂

[@kenken33333]

Six M-8s on the table with no more than 30,000 miles max on them. Two of them have crank/con rod issues. Tell me again...why did I ever think buying a HD was a good idea?

[@Jhood0729_jerrymesser]

Nc saying hello

[@KevinBaxter]

Hello NC!

[@richardbeucler6425]

You convinced me!No M8.

[@KevinBaxter]

Keep in mind that Harley has built a whole bunch of these things since 2017. Yes some certainly had problems but there are hundreds of thousands of them out there with high miles that operated trouble free. Only a small minority had the problems we speak of. My goal with the channel is for those that do have problems to help them understand what they are what causes them and how you can fix them.

[@jeanpaullavieille5806]

Go on market place thar is a shit load of m8 top ends for sale. 😅

[@FlipandTheBlueMule]

👋👋🫡🇺🇸😎

[@magic4221]

I still see only a one man shop.....no background noise..... Please get a couple of bodies in there to give you the time to...A...spend some time away from that building and B time to specialize on your engine builds. Bodies to pull engines,install engines , grunt work, stuff you shouldn't be doing. You do engines and tune!! Get some help to make things more efficient and SAFER for you......only so many years at this pace before you burn out BAD. Ask me how i know!

[@wvbiker746]

30,000 miles shouldn't be having any problems.

[@TheDesmoto]

My world with Harley ends at the evo, no interest in anything newer

[@lloydsuddreth5343]

So why don’t you tell us what the runout was on those motors? Everyone should absolutely check runout when installing a cam. Unless you’re doing a big bore kit what’s the point of taking the primary side apart. Not everyone is doing a blueprinted motor.

[@KevinBaxter]

Checking the run out will be in the next video. This was done as a demonstration to offer Clues to someone before they move forward to the next step. The point of taking the primary side apart was stated in the video and the previous video.. the need to check the sprocket shaft run out in addition to the pinion side run out to get a total run out. Just checking the pinion side only addresses fitment for the oil pump but not complete health of the flywheel assembly.

[@mickrose6450]

GURU 🫡🇦🇺

[@marksmallman4572]

HD needs to enter the 21st centuary and stop producing archaic engines..😢

[@KevinBaxter]

I believe that process has already begun with the Pan Am series of engines. We will see where it leads us.

[@marksmallman4572]

I hope so, not a great lover of HD , not my thing, 50 years riding Japanese and Italian bikes, but do not wish to see a motorcycle producer die because of lack of forsight , appreciate your responce.​@@KevinBaxter

[@kerrylewis2581]

I like the archaic twin cam in my 2013 FLHTK. All it needed was a few improvements to improve TQ and a great tune.

[@frederickking1660]

That's not alot of miles

[@adambarker3578]

Pay them a little now or a lot later bottom line.

[@KevinBaxter]

Knowing in advance can save a lot of money in the future.

[@bassslayer18]

Buy a new bike, remove the M8 and sell it to one of these poor souls and install an S&S T111. Twice the motor with way better parts and more power than a M8 114 ot 117. Miles of smiles. Pulls torque from 2000 to 6500. Excelent replacement motor for heavy baggers.

[@AMERICAFIRST54]

I don't know a mechanic that's not trying to get into someone's wallet.

[@KevinBaxter]

Sure we all have to get paid for our time effort work and experience however doing so doesn't mean it's being done unnecessarily or with poor intent.

[@darrinleazer6784]

Hey everyone!! Listen' and I hope I don't get any smartass answers for me asking this question. Because I will be man enough to tell everyone, that I don't know absolutely nothing about Motorcycles at all, as far as motors and things that is having to deal with the motor. So' here's my question, because I don't know, I have a 2015 Harley Fatboy, and I'm watching his video, about M8's my question is, what motor do I have in my 2015 Fatboy. Is it the M8 he's talking about here, or what other type do I have. Again' I know nothing about the names of motors that go into bikes. Now' if it's motors that go into cars and trucks, I know my stuff very well. Just not motorcycles.

[@KevinBaxter]

Hello sir. I would hope you wouldn't get any smart-ass answers here. We have a great community that follow this channel and we want to see people succeed and learn things. To answer your question with a 2015 model you would have a twin cam B engine because it is in a softail. That means you have dual internal balancers that allow the engine to idle and perform at low RPMs smoother. Your engine is rigidly mounted in the frame which is different than rubber mounted A engines that you would see in Dyna and Touring bike models

[@darrinleazer6784]

@@KevinBaxter First' thank you for reaching out to me, and let me know what I have. And secondly, would like to say' that I enjoy watching your videos, because though' I haven't needed anything major done to my bike yet' I still appreciate your videos, because I'm learning as I watch them. As you might can see from the picture, this is my bike, it just now has 24,000 miles on it. I did have the oil changed when I got it, which was almost a year ago. And I actually put the saddle bags on myself. Because I didn't like the fact of moving my tail lights, and wanted to keep them in their original place, I designed a bracket to mount the bags on. Again' thank you for getting back to me and letting me know what engine I have on my bike, and I sure to keep watching your videos.

[@iginogasparini3369]

Pure garbage you would think for what harley davidson sells these bikes for they would build quality but pure garbage