Stoicism and the New Testament - Shared Ethics

[@kentuckymoonyup1425]

Very informative and I really enjoyed your editing and sprinkle of humor. Thank you.

[@biblegeekPhD]

Thanks for watching! :)

[@thescoobymike]

Was Epictetus aware of Christianity and it’s teachings on loving your enemies?

[@biblegeekPhD]

No way of definitively knowing if Epictetus was aware of them. Teachings on love are older than Christianity. “Love your neighbor as you self” is from Leviticus. And, Second Temple Jewish Rabbis before Jesus were even making arguments about loving people being the goal of following God. I may make a video detailing that at some point. That said, I don’t know if Epictetus was aware of these teaching, or if other Greek philosophies had similar teachings.

[@thescoobymike]

@@biblegeekPhD I’m aware of the teaching going back further and being present in other older cultures. I just didn’t know if Epictetus got it from Judaism/early Christianity or elsewhere.

[@biblegeekPhD]

Well, I don’t know, but I do know that Philosophy of this time was well acquainted with taking things from other groups and remaking it their own. Stoicism, Epicureanism, the Peripatetics, middle Platonists, and even Judaism were all doing that, so it is certainly possible Epictetus was drawing on others to craft his ethics.

[@Good_apollo76]

I am curious to hear your thoughts on this in the context of Tom Hollands book "Dominion." I am sure you have heard of it but the jist is that Christianity has so changed the western world through its ethics. This includes ideas like all men are made equal, and as Paul writes that he finds joy in Christ no matter his circumstances. These both seem to follow some stoic teachings. In your opinion do you think that stoic philosophy had a large part to play in western thought in a way that may combat the idea that it was born out of specifically christian "philosophy?"

[@biblegeekPhD]

I have not read Tom Holland’s work, but I know many people like his stuff. From what I have heard, he simplifies Stoicism in a digestible way for people. I have, however, read many Stoic philosophers, especially those who wrote in Greek. I would always recommend reading them, as all their work is free on the internet because it is 2000 years old, haha. Now to your question, it is hard to say in the grand scale how much “influence” there was of Stoicism on Christianity. The source I cited that is about Stoicism and the NT is very thorough, but even in that source it is less about influence and more about shared similarities. We just don’t know if Paul or others were directly drawing on Stoicism, or more just living in the same world and thinking similar things. We do know, however, that during the second sophistic (the philosophical era that is contemporary to the NT) philosophies were all blending, Platonists thinking overlapped some with Epicureans and Stoics and Aristotelians, and so on. That being said, Judaism had various sects, and when a Jewish historian named Josephus described Judaism to his Greek and Roman readers, he compared the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes to philosophical schools. In this comparison he explained that the Pharisees were like the Stoics. And, it should be noted that Paul was a Pharisee. All that being said, while Paul was not a Stoic, he certainly shared similarities, so much so that other Jews recognized the similarities generally. These kinds of similarities were common among thinkers of the time. Lastly, philosophers often founded learning communities and wrote letters to those communities or their students, just like Paul did. So, the beginnings of Christianity, especially the way Paul spread it had lots of overlap with ancient philosophy. Lastly, the ethics of Stoicism are often categorized as virtue ethics, and these kinds of ethics are also present in the NT. You can read about virtue ethics in the NT in this book: www.amazon.com/Practice-Body-Christ-Theology-MacIntyre/dp/0227174607 So at minimum, the ethical systems they both present are similar. But with key differences, as I point out in the video, Paul’s understanding of Jesus is crucial, and Stoics don’t have the same kind of thinking. Great question, btw, thanks for watching.

[@Good_apollo76]

@@biblegeekPhD thanks for the response. I love the video. You got yourself a subscription keep it up!

[@DanielM-kl3bv]

Interesting, I think you could find commonality in a lot of different religions or philosophies. Not sure why you chose to compare Stoicism, and Christianity. I am not an expert on Stoicism, but if I understand correctly Stoicism teaches a form of fatalism. Is that a correct assertion?

[@biblegeekPhD]

Maybe. It really depends on what one means by fatalism. Amor fati (love of fate) is a Stoic concepts, but there are many varieties and understandings of “fate” and how one understands their relation to “fate” in Stoicism. As far as I understand amor fati in Stoicism, it seems more like accepting what has happened and moving beyond it. It’s more about how one responds to “fate” and less about everything being determined. But, I am speaking generally here. So, it really depends on what one means by fatalism.