STONER AND SLUDGE METAL Essential bands debate with Natalie Zed | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)

[@nolasludge]

Acid Bath is pretty clear cut sludge. How can you say that "Dr. Seuss is Dead", "Cassie Eats Cockroaches", "New Corpse", "Dope Fiend", or "Locust Spawning" fall under stoner metal? Because they had a few chill songs? I guess "Breakout" and "Changes" makes Black Sabbath a jazz band.

[@judykeller7474]

Extremely well stated!

[@mpeckmusic]

It’s very clear that either host have any fucking idea about Acid Bath.

[@jonathanwebster7091]

To be fair, while clearly a sludge metal band, Acid Bath did have some other elements to their sound. There's pretty obvious death metal and blues influences in there that make them different from a straight-up sludge metal in the sense of doom metal crossed with hardcore punk.

[@jonathanwebster7091]

@@MaxWhiteArabiLouisiana I agree to some extent. I'm in a stoner metal band, and I often just think of (and describe it) as just "heavy metal". Because that's exactly what it is. It's just a variation on a theme, as are all the other '_ metal' subgenres.

[@tyberard5736]

I'm from Louisiana and acidbath really is it's own thing. The vocals were more graveyard rodeoish. The drums have a lot of double bass, and though they have slower songs like Dr. Seus is dead , they have way faster songs like Jezabell. Also have clean songs. I truly think out of the NO Acid Bath and Soilent get lumped into Sludge conversations because let's face it, back then we all used Randall amps. From New Orleans to Lafayette and Lake Charles. Unlike us in Lafayette, they all played in mostly C standard tuning. Down here in Lafayette we all played more Death Metal and Thrash. We also played in C sharp and D standard. We had great spots back then that supported Metal acts with a thriving scene. 100 are so people at the shows. Lafayette had the sports bar.

[@SleepFan771]

Stoner Metal, Stoner Rock, and Sludge Metal has been my favorite genre of metal since high school. I'll see if I can contribute: Stoner Metal: Sleep, Electric Wizard, High on Fire, Acid King, Weedeater, Bongzilla, & Orange Goblin Stoner Rock: Kyuss, Fu Manchu, Truckfighters, The Sword, Monster Magnet, Clutch, Red Fang, & Corrosion of Conformity Sludge Metal: Melvins, Acid Bath, Crowbar, Soilent Green, Eyehategod, Mastodon, Kylesa, Zoroaster, Baroness, & Black Tusk

[@SleepFan771]

Ian-o -o The Sword has def gone more rock now if you've heard their most recent work. COC is often associated as being one of the first stoner rock groups, so I put them there too. They have several more metal distorted songs, but their song structure if most definitely more rock oriented.

[@TheRealProdigy]

Don’t forget Down as sludge

[@rudi246]

QOTSA definitely did not predate Kyuss. They formed after Kyuss split. On a side note, anything with John Garcia on vocals is amazing.

[@afistfulofpimples1745]

Rubbish

[@ocdrummer876]

I honestly don't know why people obsess over kyuss. I can't stand the vocals, they're too whiny

[@Karl_Marksman]

qotsa is one of the few bands I still like. The music is angry enough, I don't really need the angry lyrics and vocals. I used to like it but now it sounds like a hat on a hat, I prefer the contrast. Truckfighters do it pretty well, their V album has a couple bangers

[@2-pistols]

Qotsa came out of kyuss so rubbish dude shut up. I was listening to kyuss as the albums were being dropped and I went to the first qotsa tour after circus leaves town came out

[@TheAlbinodeath]

Neither Bongzilla or Bongripper was mentioned for stoner metal? And Weedeater was only mentioned briefly. Sad day for stoner metal.

[@lordgasman9099]

my thoughts EXACTLY. these were THE three bands I wanted to hear talked about.

[@fstabe5761]

The whole time I was watching this I was screaming put on Bongzilla!!! The injustice!!!

[@xenos_n.]

Bongripper is amazing stoner metal

[@jbernierjr]

Obviously Bongzilla is the quintessential stoner metal band, nuff said. I think this list was more about bands that influenced the genre and not necessarily the bands that perfected it, idk? Btw, I fucking love Bongzilla and they are at the top on my list!

[@metalmacabre9991]

There's too many bands for them to cover. The bands they need to mention are the bands like pentagram, Saint Vitus, electric wizard, and sabbath of course, but then you have bands like the Melvin's, eyehategod, acid bath, Sleep etc. There's so many bands to cover and then like I said some of them cross each other but aren't considered in the genre. Like the sludge bands. Although the sludge bands, and the doom bands play the same fests. I see lots of sludge bands play doom fests. Then fumanchu, and nebula. Those are California bands, I consider Stoner rock. I'm not really good at categorizing them even though I know there are differences.

[@marxman6896]

Did she just say Queens of the Stone Age influenced Kyuss? Like... wat. Kyuss was dead and buried before QotSA even existed. QotSA literally rose from the ashes of Kyuss.

[@deriksummerfield1522]

I was trying to shout this at them through my screen!! I can't believe everyone let that go when this was live. Crazy.

[@xCOULTERGEISTx]

DJ_Marxman yea she said that shit twice and also implied QOTSA came first, nonsense. I think they need smokers for this Stoner Metal episode

[@themarkedman72]

Yep.... She doesnt know kyuss was before QOTSA. she basically says....There was these bands like QOTSA who where more stoner rock and then Kyuss came and coalesced the sound to the more metal than rock. Thats the I read about it and dont know shit versus I lived it when it happened version of reality.

[@terminalspines]

yeah, how dare she make a single inaccurate statement in an hour long video that is recorded live and unedited!

[@themarkedman72]

yeah, I agree. ONE mistake would be ok for someone claiming to be an EXPERT. However the continuous and repeated mistakes clearly show that this is far worse. How embarrassing and publicly humiliating to have an hour plus of utterly misinformed and incorrect errors. Ironically it appears like you are trolling the "Expert". Just WOW!!

[@nolasludge]

She doesn't like Clutch, so that disqualifies them as a stoner band? By Zed's logic, I have become bored of death metal, therefore it is no longer a subgenre of metal.

[@thehorde1975]

Is it just me, or, did she claim that QOTSA pre dated Kyuss? QOTSA rose out of the ashes of Kyuss. Sleep, Clutch, Monster Magnet were the first bands to actually be labeled Stoner Rock.

[@SouthernCross_]

Never been a better time for post metal. That must happen. Isis, Neurosis, Cult of luna, Pelican there are sooooo many highly respected bands in the genre. This is the time. I will continue to demand it every week!

[@vedransurina574]

+Anthony Kerr I agree, so many great bands in the post metal genre.

[@franlovelsimic8421]

Yep! It is time chaps!

[@miguelrivoch]

Fucking The Ocean, man! Precambrian is one hell of a masterpiece.

[@Drewcifer]

Pelican is insanely good.

[@illuddivinus3309]

Anthony Kerr I wouldn't classify pelican as stoner metal.

[@bloodmogul]

I just can't take her with the way she just waves bands off because she personally doesn't like them

[@BlixTheGoblin]

Acid Bath is clearly Sludge. My god Im sorry I love Natalies enthusiasm but she has no idea what shes talking about. Very annoying to watch

[@ConvincingPeople]

CeaselessDischarge I assume you've only heard their first album. Their second album is way slower, druggier and doomier, and 100% belongs in the stoner doom conversation. Not saying the first album wasn't influential, but the second one was honestly more ahead of its time and shouldn't be ignored.

[@bearwithgun14]

@@ConvincingPeople No, thats wrong. Paegan Terrorism Tactics has plenty of ripping death metal riffs, hardcore punk, shrieked vocals, noise, industrial, etc. They aren't a stoner band. They're sludge.

[@ConvincingPeople]

Matter Daddy Electric Wizard and High On Fire have all of the above elements as well. I'm also not arguing that they weren't by and large a sludge band per se, but rather that her point about their influence being stronger on early stoner doom than on sludge as a whole makes sense given the time period and how unusual their sound on Paegan Terrorism Tactics was.

[@bearwithgun14]

​@@ConvincingPeople They really don't, man. Electric Wizard or High on Fire doesn't use industrial/power electronics, they don't play black metal riffs, they don't shriek like they're about to vomit intestines. And no fucking stoner bands that came after do that either. But there are plenty of sludge metal bands that have blastbeats, noise, and a horrific depressing atmosphere. There's also the fact that Holy Mountain came out before either Acid Bath record, so the record that literally every single goddamn stoner band sounds like was already being copied before Acid Bath made the two best sludge metal records that aren't Take as Needed for Pain. pissBOY

[@krogwaugh]

Googling "Stoner Metal bands" and "Sludge Metal Bands" is way more informative than this "debate".

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

Josh,would you think of Lid as a Stoner Metal Band?

[@musicaficionado3805]

Acid Bath is one of the premier sludge metal bands ever. They are in NO WAY stoner metal.

[@xenos_n.]

@@MrDinghus I agree, and acid King is amazing stoner and should have been included.

[@xokamikyox]

I think Deadboy & the Elephantmen was stoner, and I see where she's going with sliding them between stoner and sludge. That being said, I'm with you. Acid Bath is sludge.

[@MRSludgedude]

They really aren't anything..they fused death, sludge doom, black metal folk and alot of grunge . There you get acid bath. It's more it's own genra.

[@judykeller7474]

@@xokamikyox Totally agree. But Acid Bath was also an Avant-garde Metal band that pioneered Sludge every bit as much as the Melvin's did without even knowing it! Like most great bands that serve as prototypes for great genres! If Sludge ever had a "Big four" it would be The Melvins, Soilent Green/Eyehategod tie, Jucifer (another overwhelmingly underrated Sludge band falsely thrown into other genres) and at the very top of the apex...ACID fucking BATH! (Down gets a huge honorable mention but they were later. C.O.C. for being a crossover thrash band that played Sludge the same way that Zep were not a true Metal band but created Metal songs from time to time.)

[@judykeller7474]

@@MRSludgedude Yes, they were Sludge. The greatest pioneers of Sludge. But I do see your point because they were also Avant-garde.

[@MrBEATTITUDE]

Melvin's, Buzzov-en, Eyehategod, Weedeater should all be mentioned.

[@jasoncain1575]

Arguing that Clutch didn't belong because they are more rock these days is fine, but that initial out of hand dismissal as if we should all just agree that Clutch is "laaaaame" was some Pitchfork level snobbery. I have to admit that I am "emotionally done with" critics like this.

[@thaincrediblemaier]

Stoner Metal =Almost always uses the blues scale for riffs Doom = Almost never uses the blues scale for riffs. Easy as that.

[@thaincrediblemaier]

That is how I define it.

[@ripplewine6112]

wrong

[@satanlaffing]

CROWBAR!!!!! EYEHATEGOD!!!!!! basically any band from NEW ORLEANS.

[@jukujuku6153]

Floor’s discography was pretty broad, but they aren’t too well known. Cavity too.

[@bluegatorade358]

@@jukujuku6153 Floor are definitely one of the most underrated Sludge bands. Dove and their self titled especially are classics but they're always overshadowed by Torche sadly but they're great aswell

[@JamesThomas-dz4vj]

Great shout-out to Crowbar! My favorite sludge band of all time!

[@neuroisis85]

This episode should really be redone with the guy from Blood Ceremony who was the guest for the top Doom albums episode, that guy actually knew what he was talking about and clearly loved the slower styles of Metal.

[@kingdraven_9676]

We need to redo this episode

[@corpse1976]

How the hell could you leave off Buzzoven and Grief? Both are innovators of sludge.

[@xeverettx2564]

Because this girl is super young probably just like all the staff of the show and Sam isn’t a stoner metal fan generally speaking.

[@MegaMetal666head]

You know, when I saw this was the Stoner/Sludge episode I got really excited. Then I saw who the guest was all the excitement was gone. I feel like she really doesn't know what she's talking about, and that what she says is mostly opinion and she isn't really thinking about the bands' importance to the genre. I felt the same way in the Folk Metal episode. Does anyone else feel like this or is it just me?

[@fonzatron]

Did she really say Queens of the Stone Age influenced Kyuss??

[@stewartdowouis2457]

+Fonz Chavez Yes. Yes she did. When she first said that, I thought maybe I heard her incorrectly or that she got confused. But then she said some dumb shit like that again while discussing St. Vitus. I don't think she's aware that they're a relatively new band that formed from Kyuss.

[@Norg1]

+Fonz Chavez they should of asked here from the JUMP has Natalie Ever SMoked WEED ..?????

[@xenos_n.]

@@stewartdowouis2457 saint Vitus isn't stoner, they're classic doom. Wtf with this woman, lol

[@fransted]

Nebula, Monster Magnet, Karma to Burn, Brant Bjork, My Sleeping Karma, The Vintage Caravan, El Coco, Dozer, Grand Magus, Sasquatch, Truckfighters, Mondo Generator......

[@rocknroll1690]

oh man, thanks for mentioning these great bands

[@rk28984]

Since when is Saint Vitus spelled St.Vitus?! She seems to really know her shit! lol

[@hutch13pbbc]

literally on their first s/t album - how they declared themselves to the world. But she didn't merch for them so they aren't worth it

[@nomadichobo5161]

ACID BATH=Sludge!Was good until this point

[@nomadichobo5161]

Hipster Chick!lmao

[@ConvincingPeople]

Mel Robbins Go back and listen to their second album. Most people in this comment section seem not to have heard it. (I also honestly think it's better than their début but that's probably a scalding hot take.)

[@nomadichobo5161]

@@ConvincingPeople I prefer the second record but still love songs from the debut.I have to give the edge to PTT.

[@JamesThomas-dz4vj]

Eyehategod, Red Fang, Black Tusk, Electric Wizard, 16, Weedeater, Crowbar (my personal favorite).....all of these sludge/stoner bands are killer.

[@butchvito]

Another thing, woman!! It is "Saint" Vitus NOT "St.", unless all of their album covers and merch were typo's.

[@jesseaharris]

YES

[@Nightbreed82]

I learned a lot from this episode. Out of all the sub-genres discussed so far, Stoner was the one I knew least about. I've always assumed that since I don't smoke that I wouldn't really "get it", so I never paid too much attention. Glad to learn that's not the case. Also, as a guitarist, the thought of "smokey" guitar tones is very interesting. Now I have a bunch of cool bands to check out.

[@TheCJHowes]

+Paul Leach I suggest you start by Electriz Wizard's Black Butterfly.

[@lordgasman9099]

This needs to be redone with someone competent

[@funeralopolis1]

Stoner rock/Stoner Metal/Stoner Doom should all be under the same umbrella. There's not really much of a huge difference between Kyuss, High on Fire, Sleep, Buried at Sea, Electric Wizard, Church of Misery, or Boris. There's differences, but they all cross into each other. It's all just varying degrees of fuzz and speed. Making them separate seems a bit nitpicky for me.

[@georgethornton130]

I agree, I love bands like sleep and Melvins, and I always thought they were both just sludge or doom.

[@The_Cat666]

I absolutely agree. You can't really separate them.

[@georgethornton130]

Vinayak Shingornikar glad to know someone agrees!

[@Nightbreed82]

First marriage proposal? I proposed to Priya back in the Glam Metal chat. It wasn't acknowledged "per se", but as soon as I hit Enter, she gave a little nod as if to say, "come and get me big boy". It was at that moment that I realized we would grow old together.

[@mremppu94]

+Paul Leach seems legit, congratulations :P

[@BangerTV]

+Paul Leach True! How could we forget? Also I think Jason Decay's hair did get some marriage proposals.

[@thearchivist7824]

+BANGER Don't you mean Daniel Dekay?

[@Nightbreed82]

+The Abyssal Archivist Similar last name, but Jason Decay from the band Cauldron was on the Power Metal episode and Daniel Dekay from Diemonds was on Thrash.

[@thearchivist7824]

Oh yeah you're right.

[@8SweetPotatoLattes]

Banger Staff: I think a very welcome guest to a Lock Horns segment would be Myke C-Town from Dead End Hip Hop...brilliant, passionate, refreshing KZbinr who would be a good fit for maybe another black metal discussion?

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Wait... Black metal or black metal?

[@kingdraven_9676]

where's Bongzilla, I swear.

[@jmgmarcus808]

The first stoner metal record was Masters of Reality.

[@electricbogan8162]

Well shes just a goddamn genius aint she?!

[@AphoticJake]

Saint Vitus too fast.......Really?

[@kosherwhitewine5879]

"they say my songs, are much too slow," (they as in everyone except fucking Natalie)

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

@@kosherwhitewine5879 could that make Saint Vitus a doom metal band ?

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

@Aphotic Jake: Saint Vitus was a 80s Doom metal band...not Stoner metal I feel that including Saint Vitus with Trouble on the Doom metal chart would be the perfect fit

[@kellymoon3406]

I'd throw in Fu Manchu, Acrimony, High On Fire, Earthless, and Spiritual Beggars.

[@afistfulofpimples1745]

I wouldn't

[@TheCJHowes]

Black Pyramid. Weedeater. Bongzilla. Dopethrone. Seedy Jeezus. The Sword

[@Oldy-Sepulchre]

It actually is Saint Vitus not St Vitus. So it was right the first time lol.

[@muchzshroom]

Glad to see Acid bath on the list, they are soo good. Also I hope you guy's eventually do a crust punk list

[@stewartdowouis2457]

+muchzshroom Not likely. They didn't even bring it up when discussing EHG.

[@gmod8033]

crust would be cool happy to see acid bath

[@mosesgarner2404]

This lady is off her rocker. No Clutch? No COC? I'd like her to tell Pepper and Woody that they didn't make and still don't make Stoner/doom riffs. COC is 90s stoner rock 101.

[@mosesgarner2404]

And no MONSTER MAGNET????? You guys need a class in 90s Stoner,doom and Sludge. Horrible segment.

[@piricsiremus2405]

Monster Magnet had naked hot girls in their videos and concerts that's too sexist for these guys.

[@Thebootscrapper]

Eyehategod, Crowbar. This hipster chick doesn't know shit.

[@Phicxtion]

The Spicy_Weiner well said.

[@petecanthropus9947]

Clutch is a (of course well made) hodgepodge of rock subgenres and styles: blues-rock, funk, grunge, stoner etc. Monster Magnet is more stoner rock than stoner metal: I agree about Kyuss being the first stoner metal band. Indeed, if you do a search in the huge database The Metal Archives (which can't be accused of being biased or hipsterish) you will find that bands like Clutch and Monster Magnet are not included.

[@fstabe5761]

I'm very late to the party here but as someone who obsesses over these two genres to an unhealthy extent. I was really crushed not to see Bongzilla or Earth.

[@DLK18wp]

When she said maybe the day will come when there is blackened atmospheric doom metal. I thought to myself, well we already have it. That beast of a band is, The Ruins Of Beverast!

[@malayali-appreciator-69]

I would have loved to ask Natalie what she meant by song structures. I take it she doesn't mean a ABA song structure or something like that. She must instead mean something like how riffs are written and connected and arranged? I don't know. But being told a band has the "wrong song structures" to be in a genre/subgenre without further elaboration isn't terribly explanatory.

[@VCCassidy]

Masters of Reality, Unida, Monster Magnet and The Obsessed are HUGE oversights for Stoner. Also surprised that nobody corrected Natalie on the fact that Josh Homme started QOTSA in 1997, well after Kyuss broke up. They're not forefathers, so much as the mainstream alt-rock evolution of Stoner. Fu Manchu, I think, are/were pretty marginal in comparison.

[@elvistheripper]

+Cassidy Robinson Agree with most of what you said. MOR are definitely important to the genre but maybe too straight forward rock or blues rock. About QOTSA being the mainstreaming/alt-rocking of it, I think you are on to something. I recall Josh around the time of the 2nd record being very uncomfortable with the stoner rock label and intentionally getting away from it (feel good hit of the summer being the tongue in cheek flip off to that effect). I don't know if I would call Fu Manchu marginal though. In Search of was a huge record for those into fuzz rock back in the day and the Action Is Go and King of the Road records were one of the reasons stoner rock entered the mainstream vocabulary around that time.

[@VCCassidy]

+elvistheripper Stoner Rock and Stoner Metal are pretty fluid genres in my opinion. I think The Sword, Monster Magnet, Kyuss straddled both. Masters of Reality, along with The Obsessed, are the first two Stoner bands in my estimation. They brought back the 70s Sabbath style with a sense of psychedelia and groovy, bluesy guitar riffs. QOTSA, Fu Manchu, Monster Magnet and (I guess) Clutch all had big radio hits in the late 90s and were far poppier than the genre started and thus the style was kind of fractured. One could argue that bands like Dead Meadow, The Warlocks, Black Mountain and Goblin Cock are kind of the alt-Stoner or Stoner-Gaze that followed the success of the QOTSA. Certainly Eagles of Death Metal owe everything to Homme.

[@elvistheripper]

+Cassidy Robinson Yeah, I also think the Stoner Rock/SM debate is dumb. It's all rock in the end of the day anyway. And no one really self-identifies as a "stoner" band. I'm with you 100% on the Obsessed. They were right around the time of Monster Magnet's first (on record anyway) and the first bands I heard "stoner" being applied to (even if MM was kind of doing it tongue in cheek). Master of Reality though, far more Cream influenced than Sabs. I don't hear Sabbath guitar tone at all on those records. Maybe Chris Goss' role mentoring a young Josh Homme and that Desert scene has them in there as major influences but have you really listened to the records? Not much Sabbath there at all. Not even a hell of a lot of heavy/fuzz guitar. I love the band, don't get me wrong but I just don't see it. To me, more than Homme, the guys who really are the heart of Stoner rock, if such a thing really exists, are Brant Bjork, Mario Lalli and Wino. Criminal that neither Wino nor Brant were mentioned by name in this debate.

[@mmeesshhuuggggaahh]

also, shout out to Truck Fighters

[@eric_wood]

I really think y’all should revisit this and do a completely separate video for sludge medal instead of just compiling it with stoner (yes they do share very similar qualities) especially considering you have done less notable sub-subgenres. Anyways, this is series is such a badass rabbit hole to go down and would love to see sludge as a subgenre and the sludge metal bands get the appreciation they deserve!

[@odeleon24]

Thumbs up for including High on Fire!

[@c3920]

Thank you for this debate! Stoner metal is one of the most important influences in modern metal!

[@c3920]

Fu Manchu is one of the most under-estimated bands of its time. Huge influence on me and my buddies back around 1999 and 2000 and continue to be a big influence to this day (for those who have ears that can hear).

[@comradefreedom8275]

Everyone at Banger Bar and Banger TV. If you guys were doing this show while I was doing my senior project in high school, which was on the 30+ sub genres of heavy metal, I would've used this show as a source.

[@ryanweatherman-holt4805]

The cute round one needs to hear more Clutch.

[@ramon2008]

Rex Weathers lol round one hahaha

[@jokinmyass9446]

I'll bet she's a hot topic district manager.

[@splatterbrained]

I’d say Mastodon first 3 (I’m including the re released EP album they were certainly more sludge and around Blood Mtn they became more proggy

[@HVNTERTN]

Obviously some of her statements don't exactly work out well, but her points about the common ancestors and the textures of this sound are probably some of the best explained definitions I've ever heard.

[@maxsdad666]

So where would Monster Magnet be? Mastermind, Dopes, Superjudge, etc.-- I can only describe these Albums as Stoner. Am I wrong here? MM are a total Stoner Band.

[@the_chandler]

I think they're stoner rock, but probably not stoner metal.

[@butchvito]

Yeah just because she doesn't like Clutch personally doesn't mean she has to write them off completely. They've gone more down the bluesy direction with their recent albums, but their Self-titled and Elephant Riders are staples albums in the stoner genre.

[@xeverettx2564]

Yeah Weedeater have to be on there! The Sword have been around since late 90’s and were the first in this newest wave of “stoner doom bands”! The Sword is almost quintessential doom band kinda like blood ceremony and their purest angle they take!!!

[@brucenatelee]

The only Crowbar albums I listened to, in order, are "Sever the Wicked Hand" and "Symmetry in Black." Ilike the second one (the one I bought), but STWH was just... BEAUTIFUL!!! Also wondered if they could also fall under thrash, since some songs had a lot of speed to them, though more on a smooth rhythm.

[@Robert-rl7rd]

Well Sludge has hardcore origins

[@user-ld3ww2yx4k]

Hey people... thanks for creating this show. You are doing a great job for this heavy but still young genre: metal.

[@DemonAdvance]

did she just say that queens of the stone age predates kyuss...?

[@olivergrunseis2947]

She said something to that effect twice. So she doesn't really know what she is Talking about.

[@shaunaheron4448]

7 years late watching this, but as a non-stoner lover of all things stoner metal I am over the moon in agreement with Natalie's addition of the Melvins to this list (and most everything else she has said so far, 15 mins in).

[@slyfoxmoney]

Stoner-riff oriented, like Kyuss, Obsessed, E Wizard, Fu Manchu, later COC, M Magnet. Doom-darkness oriented like Candlemass. Progressive Doom-texture n feel oriented like Khanate. Sludge-working through something, like Melvins n Eyehategod.

[@anthonycox7879]

Asteroid from Sweden, Colour Haze from Germany and Elder from Boston USA! All softer metal and take a look, Much respect Love the show. However, they definitely fit this genre more than any other!

[@deiiiify]

wheres acid king

[@xenos_n.]

Omg thank you, they're literally one of the Kings of stoner, probably my favorite

[@calebomuireadhaigh2025]

So glad you guys did this one, Stoner Metal is as important to me, personally, as Thrash!

[@Flugmorph]

i really want you to do post metal

[@radshoesbro]

When this chick says that Mastodon are "too fast" to be in sludge, it makes me question if she's ever actually listened to EHG. Also, though I can see why they aren't on this list, if anyone reading this wants to listen to a fucking GNARLY band that goes under the radar A LOT: Cavity.

[@mitchfindergeneral]

I think I once argued with this chick on twitter.

[@matheusmotta1132]

*Calling it Psychedelic (Doom) Metal is WAY better than calling it Stoner (Doom) Metal!*

[@jondubb35]

I like how they just skipped right past Monster Magnet. Absolutely need to be under Stoner as does Earth.

[@melvinramone2605]

Earth, Sunn O))), early Boris, etc. is it's own thing that's totally distinct from Stoner.

[@DanielMartinez-vf8bf]

I listen to all three of those bands. Queen of the Stone Age is my favorite. Electric Wizard and Uncle Acid is also my favorite too. Thank you for doing this. I play under the names Mooon Doggie and Dr. Droid. The only song I have up for Dr. Droid is (Street Shaman). I don't play stoner but am very influenced by the genre.

[@mikebrown2736]

Queens of the stone age was started after kyuss by some of the same people all you had to do was look them up on wikipedia

[@badacid]

+Michael Brown : That also pissed me off hearing that. I had to go back as I thought 'Am I hearing that right? - Did she just make out that QotSA were around before Kyuss?' Most people didn't even know who Kyuss were until after they split up. They latched onto the QotSA hype, then went back and listened to Kyuss. When I was listening to Kyuss around '93/'94 I was told "Urgh, that's just like ordinary rock, or grunge or something ... what's so good about that?" - The same people 5/6 years later (after getting into QotSA) were all "Oh, yeah man, you're into that Kyuss, arent you? Do me some copies of their stuff".

[@kevandalzell7906]

Yeah, the lady said they started before Kyuss...?!?

[@meteor09]

Also, being a metal tree, I would say that I think we should definitely should need have a post metal genre. Starting with Isis, post metal was a completely new direction for doom. They took the slow and crushing riffs of sludge/doom and pushed it to evolve into a sound so powerful in feel and in thought. In other words, the "thinking man's" sludge/doom. Isis and Neurosis along with bands like Cult of Luna took the sound and pushed it far, giving metal a whole new life.

[@evaldasd2907]

In my ears Killdozer are the ultimate sludge band.Ozma and Bullhead by Melvins aswell.High On Fire.Kilslug. Whilst Sleep,Monster Magnet,Pluto by Seigmen.Soundgarden: )

[@BigVitus]

The misinformation about Saint Vitus is blood boiling. Not doom? "It's spelled St. Vitus" Every album cover has the word Saint on it. It's in the logo! god damn it.

[@kurtcostigan6625]

Sorry I missed the stream. Needed for stoner: Monster Magnet, The Sword, Earth and Clutch. I also consider White Zombie's La Sexorcisto a stoner metal album.

[@NullVoid241]

Really? I thought of it as an early groove metal album, but that a very unique album, ao it could be anything!!

[@kurtcostigan6625]

Tbone5455 Definitely pretty groovy, but Stoner is pretty groovy as a rule. It fit right in with Sky Valley and Superjudge. .

[@mr.natural3796]

i missed the stream too. lol. i just finished wstching this episode and wonder "where the fuck is His Hero Is Gone? Where the fuck is Grief?" smh

[@TheHooliganification]

Saint Vitus and Pentagram need to be put up with there with Kyuss, Electric Wizard and Sleep as the "firsts" and "fathers" of this genre

[@stationdisatrous647]

Kylesa is awesome... and the lead singer was considered a pioneer of sludge metal when she was with Damad

[@gurnblanston5000]

Best 3rd(?) generation Stoner Rock/metal bands...Karma To Burn, Halfway To Gone, Alabama Thunderpussy, Solarized, Zerocharisma, Twin Earth, Demon Cleaner, Iron Giant, Eighteen Wheels Burning, Ditchliquor, Stoner Kings, Suplecs, Spirit Caravan, & Beaten Back To Pure are great!!!

[@Jeffrey9In4Chains]

Damn I woulda loved to see an episode of stoner metal, its just the best.

[@Chuloloc]

Awesome. Thank you Banger TV.

[@Strohat8]

I can barely listen to this whole thing, ate there any bands recommended?

[@jondubb35]

So I’ve come back a year later to watch this again, thinking maybe this wasn’t as bad as I remember... wrong! It’s even worse! Banger, you have to redo this segment! And you have to get a different guest that actually knows and understands this sub-genre. No hipsters please!

[@mdventertainment]

LOCK HORNS: power violence band debate! please!

[@currerbell-eyre606]

Miss Zed was informed with her Folk Metal but she was not good at all on this one. There were some GLARING omissions. She really seemed to hold this board with an iron grip. Remember, this is not about what YOU think, it's about what the commenters think...oh wait. Seriously, Mastodon is prog sludge. Monster Magnet is one of the biggest and most defining stoner bands. Clutch is a stoner band. Weedeater is stoner. I really don't ever think that Zed needs to come back. Especially after trying to argue that St. Vitus is a stoner band. Have you listened to them?? This was a poor, poor episode.

[@MrSnuffian]

She thinks acid bath is stoner, so really I don't think she understood the defining attributes of either stoner or sludge

[@currerbell-eyre606]

***** maybe I misunderstood her, but I have never listened to stoner to contemplate the universe. I mean, yeah, bands Monster Magnet (WHICH THEY IGNORED) discuss such topics, but at the end of the day, stoner is about pot, man. At least in my eyes it is. Bad prog is for contemplating the universe (looking at you BTBAM) SQUIDLORD is about getting "High As Fuck On A Mountain." This episode was just pathetic. Even worse than Symphonic Black metal.

[@MrSnuffian]

+Thad White that's not all stoner is about, Surprisingly they don't just sing about getting high.

[@MrSnuffian]

+Thad White I didn't enjoy this episode at all, cause my two favorite genres are stoner and sludge, I grew up in San Jose where Sleep(the godfathers of stoner) are from where that's what a lot of people listen to.

[@doobiousd5020]

Brutal lack of DIY bands on this list. Corrupted, Grief and Noothgrush are super deserving for being absolute pillars of sludge. They are all pure misanthropy but don't sound like they are from the south - bonus points. They really carried the flag before Doom and it's subgenres surged in the aughts.

[@sgtmadness22]

Also a note to point out you need to add said band BUZZOVEN. aside from many member changes was one of the many pioneers of the genre not counting pre bands who paved the way such as Melvins who in turn with many others were influenced by sabbath/black flag... ect, ect.

[@firetamer]

With sludge metal, I always throw Creep Diets and Lord Mantis out there.

[@drzontar]

One thing that makes a definition difficult is that there's a lot of overlap between styles. Sleep, Electric Wizard, and St. Vitus are just as much Doom as Stoner. Plus there are stoner bands that aren't ultra-heavy, like Monster Magnet and Fu Manchu. I wouldn't put The Melvins in the Stoner category - they were influential to a lot of bands, but way too eclectic to put in any category. Maybe they can be considered Sludge, but they have a lot of other stylistic elements, too. The same goes for Clutch - too big and varied to classify.

[@blakemeads9225]

The Melvins definitely have albums that can be considered sludge. Namely Gluey Porch Treatments, Lysol, Eggnog. You're right, though, they've done and influenced so many different styles, that it's almost impossible to categorize them.

[@omarpagan4244]

well for me my war. black flag is the first sludge album ever but with all know is a hardcore legend band

[@kurtrosenthal6313]

*cough**cough**cough* sweatleaf first stoner metal song

[@zhuoerliu4805]

No Cathedral? Aren’t they Stoner Doom/ Sludge?

[@Ryhan_Beard]

The amount of Clutch hate from Natalie kind of bums me out. I think they're absolutely an essential stoner metal band (though admittedly it borders on being stoner rock or just plain rock and roll these days imo).

[@TheFujac]

+Woodshatter i'm not a fan myself but it was pretty obvious that she just has some kind of issue with the band.... maybe they wouldn't put her on a guest-list or something

[@ozzymetfan]

Down, Monster Magnet, Orange Goblin and Fu Manchu are stoner for me

[@rudi246]

Hell yeah

[@kvistulv]

One big thing here. Queens of the Stone Age are Josh Hommes band. Which he founded after he broke with Kyuss, and they are very much a desert rock band. Clutch is a band miles from metal. It's a rock n roll band, with boogie, blues, swing, groove and swagger

[@Markcello]

What about Soundgarden?

[@kevandalzell7906]

Indeed: "Louder Than Love."

[@marcelo.bassalo]

More of a Post Grunge?

[@jondubb35]

Marcelo Bassalo Post Grunge? Try again. They’re one of godfathers of grunge. Post grunge is reserved for horse-shit bands like nickelback

[@LogiBear59]

To a lesser extent, yes.

[@dieselnautburkey4677]

That gorgutts colored sand shirt is as awesome as the album! Great video!

[@jamesblobb7115]

"Smokey texture".

[@happycat4838]

She sounds like she is talking about a steak

[@danieldemetrio6474]

If Neurosis and Isis didn't belong to this tree, then you got to do a Post Metal episode! With Cult of Luna and Pelican too!

[@danieldemetrio6474]

+Ulysses Joyce like all good post metal songs lol

[@BangerTV]

+Daniel Demetrio We will definitely tackle Post Metal at some point soon!

[@danieldemetrio6474]

+BANGER That is sick!! I will keep watching the videos, thanks for the awsome work!!!!

[@awfulbox23]

melvins are beyond sludge/grunge/doom....theyre punk/prog to me. they also happen to be metal, but it seems somewhat accidentallymetal to me. people seem to harp on their slow material but try learning one of their MID PACED songs. so glad you added NOLA in this episode eventually. im so glad about the metal anthopology yall present to us.

[@Litoff90]

Aight. I'm really not an expert of doom, stoner and sludge, but I'm trying to learn and get into those generes. So, just yesterday I saw Banger's Lock Horns on Doom, and I think I have a pretty good idea of what doom metal is. As far a stoner and sludge go, for what I've read and heard, stoner's kind of a derivative form of metal of doom, but also combined with psychedelic rock, and acid rock (particularly rock from the 60's, Californian wave, all that) and a dash of heavy metal. So we're looking at bands like Kyuss, Sleep ... I don't know if Electric Wizard?? Fu Manchu, Queens of the Stone Age, maybe. Accordingly, also Monster Magnet, Clutch and Corrosion of Conformity are also stoner bands. But then, in comes sludge. As far as what I've read, and people I've asked, sludge derives as well from doom metal, but has also an influence of hardcore punk. I basically think of the NOLA metal scene: Down, Crowbar, Eyehategod, Superjoint, Acid Bath, and so on. Also COC come into mind. Some other sources indicate that The Melvins are closer to sludge than stoner. So ... How far off am I in understanding the differences between stoner and sludge??

[@craigroaring]

I was wondering about Neurosis, Isis and Cult of Luna. If they aren't sludge what are they?

[@franlovelsimic8421]

they are sludge but are doing (in case of Isis did :( ) something different and thus Post-metal was created :D