Stop Getting Lost: Make Cognitive Maps, Not Levels

[@Krash954]

A certain degree of "where the hell am I...?" or "how do I move forward?" can encourage exploration and ultimately enhance the experience... as long as the player doesn't stay lost for too long... because then they've become stuck. which sucks. Think of it as creating environmental tension and release.

[@mateusgodoy5060]

Your comment reminded me of Yakuza 0, a game in which you are able to explore the city's depth, but once you leave your character standing still, in idle position, he starts to smoke and to think out loud about the main mission goals, usually adding new tips to those already displayed.

[@theblobconsumes4859]

I agree. RagnarRox made a great video on it with relation to a 3D Metroidvania, 'Shadow Man'.

[@grudley]

Hollow Knight was good at this with the drop into deepnest

[@guilhermealveslopes]

@ColonColonel I think that's because the cycle of "increasing, releasing" is a fundamental pattern of human consciousness

[@olivierdulac]

a good exemple of very clever level design with lots of creativity and lots of paths (some which only open later on, when further abilities are available) : star wars: Jedi Fallen Order. But going back to the ship takes sometimes lots of hours (with some late-mile dead ends too) and would have benefited tremendously from a "return to ship" shortcut ...

[@DctrBread]

I find it funny that you mentioned designing with no navigational HUD. I remember hearing a study many years ago which concluded that playing a game with a dynamic minimap caused long-term atrophy of the player's ability to navigate and memorize 2d graphs in general

[@Wylie288]

This explains the gaming community so much. Personally I HATE when games do nav stuff for me. Its not engaging. Its makes the "game" feel like a mindless chore. Like I was handed my mom a shopping list and im just playing the "game" because im supposed to do it. Mainstream game design is so dreadul.

[@MrLachapell]

What's atrophy ?

[@morgierwin6641]

@@MrLachapell breakdown from non-use

[@darkelwin02]

Based

[@ninjadodovideos]

@@MrLachapell atrophy is when something withers and weakens from not being used, like muscles can atrophy like with astronauts in zero G (which is why they need to exercise so much in space), same thing can happen with your mind, abilities you don't use (like navigating a space without handholding) become weaker... for more detail check a dictionary.

[@AlligatorTower]

This is chock full of things it felt like I "knew." But you've given me much better words and mental-scaffolding to be able to articulate them. You're a great educator Nicolas, I'll be looking for more of your talks.

[@MFobes]

Thanks for the term “mental scaffolding”. You’ve also given me better words lol

[@landnavgame2160]

same here. everything he is saying i'm like, " i knew that!" but i never could have said it. Mental scaffolding is great term.

[@bobthedeleter]

even if you feel like you know things, talks like this which point them out help you get it right every time

[@lukkkasz323]

I recommend paying more attention to this point 15:00, because it can easily go unnoticed how useful it is. This can be used for a lot of things, like for example caches of ammo in classic FPS design. Grouping loot to specific spots makes it much more meaningful than just throwing several pieces of it around the level. I remember Doom 3 doing a great job at this.

[@StephenOwen]

Twenty years later, and I can still remember where my most favorite weapons would spawn in certain Halo maps!

[@dailyraven3241]

and I hated how Avengers the game handled this part. The level design was all over the place, it felt like they copy-pasted same mini levels into one huge level which made the game feel even more repetitive.

[@metasamsara]

What made Morrowind such a great game with no minimap is that whenever you get lost is when you discover new interesting stuff! And they make finding your destination that much rewarding! I miss it so much!

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@noxabellus]

ive been doing a playthrough of morrowind once every year or two for 20 years and it still has not become old at all. truly a masterpiece, in so many ways

[@dm_ex_machina3395]

None of the elder scrolls games use minimaps. That's why their maps are so memorable. People can visualise the path from the dragon attack to Riverwood to Whiterun and anywhere in between. Close your eyes and try it, I bet you can easily imagine all the spaces in between. This is because they give you an orientation tool to help you not lose direction, but they don't give you a mini map that you look at the whole time. This orientation tool is a minimalistic and unintrusive compass at the top of the screen. I know everyone always wants to laud Morrowind, but getting lost in that game is one of the most common complaints amongst players (even at the time of release when there wasn't an alternative to spoil the player, most people who stopped playing said they did so because they got lost). The inclusion of a compass doesn't let you move the triangle to the circle, as the speaker was saying, but rather assures that you know which way is the way you just came from through orientation.

[@morgierwin6641]

I take this away from his talk: Design a level not by focusing on its manifestation in pixels, but by focusing on the cognitive image or map that is going to be formed in players' minds. From this perspective you can first design functionally, and then expand.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Basically: Contrast. Just like in any art: Contrast is the main force driving interest, attention and focus. If you want people to remember/focus on something, create contrast in any way. Be it shapes, color, movement, value,

[@marc-andrerenaud1394]

The environment artists for Destiny 2 are magicians in the use of Contrast. Even if you're down a clear path, you would round a corner and in the distance you could clearly make out your destination, the boundaries and the path to that destination through the use of colour, changing textures, physical walls and also environmental elements that would effectively control the eye and point it in the desired direction. Granted my reaction was then to run in the opposite direction because there was invariable better loot and more secrets away from the stated goal, but that's still a selling point of open world games who recognise and encourage players to explore.

[@ChBrahm]

One of the things I respect most in games is knowing just by glancing which are the secondary paths and which is the main one while exploring. If a game can tell me just by the layout of the level where TO go and where I CAN go thats a good level design

[@w花b]

Yup, especially when it's more closed than it looks like Naughty Dog games for example

[@OwlMoovement]

When I read Image of the City 12 years ago I spent a lot of time thinking about how it applied to world design in games. It makes a lot of sense in games like Shadow of the Colossus. Another great read on the topic is in Edmund Bacon's (if you're wondering, one degree. He was Kevin's uncle) Design of Cities. The way pilgrimages instrumentally structured the cities he covered are a great reference for those who want to design game worlds that teach the player navigation without a map. Thank you for making this video.

[@Quarine1]

The cognitive mapping of Elden Ring comes to mind when you mentioned both landmarks and districts. The Erdtree for example can be seen from everywhere in the world and acts as an anchor in the story and in the way the player navigates the world.

[@jonludwig1632]

Incredible talk. Short, to the point, and incredibly informative. Really enjoyed this and it will shape how I design spaces moving forward.

[@suplextrain]

I actually found this to be bloated and not short. All of this can be summed up in 5 miuntes or in a single infograph.

[@Ryan-wx8of]

@@suplextrain He really thoroughly described really basic ideas, like how a road works, which can be good, but drove me nuts.

[@lumeronswift]

Fascinating comments about GPS - the difference between one of my friends and myself is that she always, always uses a GPS, whereas I instead check a map at the start and look for main roads and landmarks before leaving to go somewhere... and she usually doesn't remember how to get somewhere she has been to unless she has taken the road dozens of times, but I can (usually) remember a route I took once a couple of months ago. However... sometimes I get lost if I don't plan well enough... and ironically my ego can get in the way of pulling up a GPS... so sometimes not using a GPS can also be egocentric, haha.

[@Valiyus]

I just look at the Google maps and memorize where to go. If I get a little lost, I still have my GPS but getting lost is half the fun of going to a new place. It can lead onto other new places.

[@rydout]

I went from using maps to complete GPS and 100% I don't remember the way like I did while using maps... I notice very little in the world as I travel through that sticks to memory while focusing on the gps to tell me where to turn. I used to learn the way after 1 or 2 trips with maps. It's the same for me if I'm not driving I don't learn the way, if I am driving I do on a degree relative to with maps/directions vs gps.

[@marc-andrerenaud1394]

@@Valiyus Getting lost from "mis-remembering" the way to navigate to a new location is the perfect opportunity to correct and expand your mental map. I've found the best shops and restaurants that way.

[@theinacircleoftheancientpu492]

I usually look at the map to get an idea and then use navigation aids as a backup. I also try to switch to finding my way by memory on my second or third journey on the route. It tends to be a bit of a strain but I like to remember where all the roads in the area network.

[@maxwellsterling]

@@marc-andrerenaud1394 I do food deliveries and learned a lot of paths between the main streets by knowing my orientation and that "I'll probably reach that other main street if I keep going in this direction" - I'd often do, even if I didn't have the map in my head. It was also fun to have a faulty battery when I started deliveries because I was actually forced by circumstances to look at the map the shortest amount possible to prevent the battery from draining at lightspeed, so I'd draw minimaps on the delivery orders, references and whatever else. I've even had times in which I misplaced my phone or it was uncharged, so I'd spend 6 hours doing deliveries without calling anyone or looking at any map besides the one at the restaurant... and those were actually some of my fastest deliveries, even if rarely I'd need to go back to the restaurant because I couldn't find the house on the street and had no phone to call the customer with. In the meantime, the guy around my age that started working there at the same time as me still spends several minutes looking at his map before leaving, even after months of deliveries and hopefully learning the city.

[@darbyburbidge8976]

Just wanted to say while watching this talk, all I could think about is how most From Software games hit these notes so well. Really illustrates why great level design has been a hallmark of their games.

[@lucasissey7378]

As an architect and a former professor, I can easily say that this video is better than most of my college classes. Great approach on Kevin lynch to creating environments.

[@mitchellty]

This is the first talk I’ve watched in a long time. This is really good stuff

[@stinky59]

i’m an architecture student who likes to learn about game design, as soon as he started talking i thought “oh is this gonna be about wayfinding” and then he said it! i guessed it right lmao!! very interesting video, it was really cool to see how wayfinding can be applied to a different medium. it makes sense because games are kind of like a built environment too, so i can see how improving navigation in a game would be similar to how you’d do it in a physical space.

[@BadNessie]

This is gold info and 100% applicable to sound design as well!

[@UliTroyo]

To sound design too? Interesting, thanks for the tip!

[@BadNessie]

@@UliTroyo basically the same concept. It's awesome when taking one look is enough to give you the idea where you are within the map. If you close your eyes and you can *still* tell, unmistakably, that's very much helping the overall sense for location within a map. The way wind sounds in a city is quite different to how it sounds in natural surroundings, beaches sound different than forests, different parts of cities have their unique sound profiles. Players may not even consciously recognize it, but when at least one or two senses short (taste and smell), sound is the perfect tool to truly convey and embed the idea of the surroundings. That goes for general sound design as well as music. Priceless when well implemented.

[@Redheadtama1]

@@BadNessie That is such an excellent point. Thank you for sharing!

[@NanoAGI]

Seems to me that would make a good GDC talk. You should do that.

[@BadNessie]

@@NanoAGI That's very kind of you to say but I'd really prefer for someone who actually DOES the job to do this. Take Eduardo Vaisman, who has put a really good sense for this and the willingness to make the effort, just to make an open world game that much better through his sound design.

[@foldupgames]

This is going to keep me thinking back on it for a long time to come. Thank you.

[@patrickj]

The first Gothic games applied this really well, there's no minimap, compass or other navigational HuD, when dropped into the world, you're just given a path to follow and the information that there's a huge camp further down the road. Following that road down the mountain it leads into a larger open area, and from the top of the cliff you're already able to see said camp, establishing it as both a landmark and a hub district. Dialogue with NPCs then establishes names and desciptions for specific locations and minor landmarks within, like the main and south gate, the entrance to the fortress at the center of the camp, the arena and trade district, with quest givers referencing all those points of interest, combined with "real" directions, like the third hut left of the main gate, or that one hut set back against the fortress wall. Pointing to locations outside of the hub works much the same, with descriptions using established paths, landmarks and terrain to keep you on track, ever expanding your known area. As for the much longer journeys to one of the other hubs, there are NPCs that will escort you through the wilderness, thus letting you learn the right path and experience all the wayside landmarks yourself. Even later on when you actually aquire a map, those are kind of low detail, unlabeled, hand-drawn maps that focus heavily on paths, landmarks and terrain. It's not a replacement for your mental map of the world, but an enhancement, like a memory aid to help assure you where exactly you are, if in doubt. While rather small for an open world, It is quite the testament to these games' organic feeling world design, that to this day I'm having a harder time laying out the path to most locations on the ingame map, rather than imagining the way by chaning together landmarks, paths and directions.

[@TheFirstTriplefife]

Goes to show, design should be built around the players knowing there is a prize out there. The game itself is what drew them towards it, but they have to find it. Its the show, don't tell simplicity of storytelling that a lot of AAA companies and designers forgot about.

[@xBINARYGODx]

its show-vs-tell, the stupid version is "show dont't tell", but there are many things you are better off telling just as there are many things better off being shown. but, hey, you felt superior to AAA developers for a moment, so woopie doo.

[@TheFirstTriplefife]

@@xBINARYGODx okay. Apparently you can tell how I feel over online discourse. Some real super powers you got there.

[@GameDesignThinking]

I saw the thumbnail and clicked immediately. I'm not disappointed, quite the contrary, this was an amazing talk full of useful information. There's nothing more satisfying than see a complex concept being break down into smaller, self-contained and applicable chunks. Thank you Nicolas!

[@TheFirstTriplefife]

Huh, just finished watching the video earlier today. Seen your name in the comments and checked out your channel. I subbed. It looks like the kind of content I enjoy. I'll be giving it a watch some time soon.

[@GameDesignThinking]

@@TheFirstTriplefife Thanks! That's great to hear :-)

[@Lunareon]

Thank you for this excellent talk. Highly recommend doing the small exercise. It was a great way of linking how one personally observes their surroundings to the context of this talk. Very enlightening!

[@StarlasAiko]

I think of myself of having a strong sense of my location, but I always get lost in towns because roads keep changing direction. Out in rural areas, where I am not limited to erratically winding roads, I can always find my way. And that despite being raised a city kid.

[@gamongames]

a real pity these video-conference talks dont allow for questions. this one is so rich and to the point that Im sure it could benefit from a generous QA section at the end

[@hanzflackshnack1158]

It’s easy to get stuck in a “I know what I’m doing” mentality. With illustration experience comes an irrational complex. Game changing in the literal sense. Thank you 😁

[@leftistethan7346]

The start of this is a perfect appeal to ethos, I just think that many people shy away from attempting this as one often comes off as long winded and unnecessary. In my opinion, 10/10 opening

[@itisbuzztv]

great talk, thanks for sharing the info!

[@Wilhuf1]

Great to hear advocacy for allocentric navigation. Some of the hud markers make navigation too simple and harm exploration and the feeling of discovery. Btw I think From software were clever with Eldenring by minimizing use of hud nav markers and instead projected ethereal nav lines as hints.

[@michaeledgar5863]

Great shout out to "The Image of the City", by Kevin A. Lynch. Brought me back to Diane Ghirardo's ARCH 314 class. Fight On!

[@CamelliaFlingert]

I remember playing Journey, ABZU, HoB, Rain World and Subnautica, i almost never used maps and other type of navigations mostly (in HoB and Subnautica) and just walked/swam everywhere to find everything on my own, with mistakes and learnings, it was such a pleasant and beautiful experience, seeing all those sceneries and just traveling everywhere and chilling

[@TheCrimsonCat89]

The lack of a map in the HUD of FF: Origins makes the stages so much more exciting in tons of ways.

[@WhiteNorthStar1]

Exceptional talk, so useful. Thank you :)

[@whimshroud]

I appreciate you folks from TGC ! love your work and this talk is delightful

[@evanlane1690]

What a useful compact talk! Thanks Nick!

[@gavindheilly3620]

The fact that this applies to thought & mapping concepts is crazy. Amazing vid, really useful stuff

[@kalubandali2241]

great video, great talk, great presenter! awesome thanks

[@WhiteNorthStar1]

great talk in terms of content and presentation, thank U for sharing :)

[@Danteso67]

Great video! Thank you for sharing such a piece of knowledge.

[@HQ_Default]

I would be interested in seeing a follow-up on this that talks more about conveyance than simply creating a navigable space. I find it's pretty rare in games that I actually get _lost_ in the truest sense of the word. Usually that only happens if the level designer literally copy-pasted an area to pad out the length. What happens a lot _more_ is I get stuck because I don't understand what the level designer expects me to do. Usually things like a switch hidden in a corner somewhere or a door that doesn't look like a door, that sort of thing.

[@DarylMetzler]

Excellent talk. Thank you!

[@parsaM96]

I wish AAA games would implement these too, there are AAA games that i get lost in their open world constantly, the map button is literally one of the main buttons i use several times an hour

[@Tealsquiddev]

Indie games are so much better at this. Just look at A Short Hike or Hollow Knight

[@maxmustsleep]

There are great talks by cdpr on the Witcher 3, blood and wine specifically I think, on that topic

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Probably because most AAA seeminly have really little UX design put into the world itself. Some games just "flow" nicely, where I don't ever need a map as I can just find stuff intuitively and by just looking at points of interests in the distance. But then again, most games just have artificially generated worlds with minimal design, where everything looks the same and you can't rely on intuition to find something. If you remove the map / floating markers, the game would become basically impossible to play. Having to rely on a map is a sign of your failure as a game designer.

[@Alchemagician]

Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring are the only two open worlds where I felt like I was traversing a designed level that would help me understand my goals.

[@nankinink]

@@Alchemagician BotW and Elden Ring were the games that gave me that best feeling of exploration ever, thanks to its map design. tbf WoW also did as well but not the same level

[@kellinorris7608]

SUPER useful, this is what I’ve been looking for

[@krevetka9744]

Basically why I hate The Witcher's map and never really explored the world. And if you try to play the game with no map you WILL suffer.

[@Mister_Peppers]

I really liked this, I study a lot of in game maps (levels not the M key). For my broken brain, this would have read a lot better if he showed some in-game examples as I spent a lot of time trying to find a good and bad game example of each thing in order to visualize it in a design context. Currently playing Dragon's Dogma 2, DD1 is one of my favorite games and I wrote a lot about map changes that would make it perfect for me. It seems to have a map design that encourages getting lost with high cliffs that frequently block landmarks and paths that branch not only into smaller trails but longer out-of-the-way roads that still lead to the next node but take you further out into the wilderness often accidentally. It would be interesting to hear a talk on how game designers can use the information in this talk to subvert player choices and force them into desired content. Akin to Bethesda placing a quest on the opposite side of a POI but using the player's perceived choices instead. For example, placing a boss monster in route 6 instead of some cheese.

[@99secondsto]

This is such an interesting and helpful talk! :) I really enjoyed it.

[@TheSolitaryEye]

I think of Dark Souls as an example of how great level design negates any need of a map. I never really got lost in those games despite how dreamy and logically impossible their layouts could be. I still feel like I know the worlds of those games even though I haven't played them in forever. I didn't need a map. I was the map.

[@puddel9079]

I find that this is why Thief 1 and 2 were so good. The provided maps were usually incomplete, and in some circumstances out of date.

[@Radgerayden-ist]

part of it was the flow of slowly gaining new ground by defeating every small obstacle, dying and trying again, until you get to the next bonfire. Being familiar with the map wasn't a bonus, it was a great aid in survival.

[@zackaccount]

Thanks for this. Very enlightening.

[@rebeccachambers4701]

An edge doesn't have to be sharp it can be progressive like as you're traveling things start to slowly change maybe things start to die I mean I'm not remembering exactly but if you look at elden ring you kind of can tell that you're in different areas just by kind of what the scenery looks like like you know you're not in the same area you were before and even the enemy start to look a bit different too

[@rebeccachambers4701]

So even movable characters or whatever even though they're moving around and may not serve as the landmark they could still serve as showing that you're in a different area just because they maybe look differently than the counterparts wouldn't other areas

[@6ixpool520]

This is very valid, but I think the point was that you want to be deliberate in the application of the "Districts" and "Edges". Like, there's a great opportunity in utilizing these concepts to make memorable locations. Places that aren't quite as important can blend into the others, but if you're making a place which should be relevant to the player / game / story / traversal making use of sharp edge and visually distinct districts are powerful tools in a designers arsenal.

[@TimFisheroo]

Good stuff, for things beyond game design, too!

[@komakaze1]

I hope this leads to less compasses and minimaps in games, and more immersive and interesting navigation and exploration using a players own mental maps.

[@cowswirl]

What are some games that exhibit Ouejijan's talk? What games have great cognitive maps?

[@fathelos]

Elden Ring. Truly a masterpiece in that regard. Sadly, vast vast majority of games do not do this. They slap on the obnoxious quest helper interface and bam. I hate quest pointers. What a wonderful presentation.

[@keldencowan]

Sky: Children of the Light is a game by thatgamecompany depicted throughout the talk (11:09, 16:03). I could probably draw decent cognitive maps of most of their levels from memory. There are certainly trouble areas, such as the bell island in area two. But there are some excellent areas like the Little Prince area. I would say as a whole the game is a good standard to judge by. Sky itself *hinges* on level exploration, so if this talk was relevent to you I would check it out. It's free to play and you can complete a run-through pretty quick.

[@BadNessie]

The Pathless does an amazing job on that end, too. Technically there IS no map (from player perspective). All you have as a player are your surroundings, a mask that you gain which helps identifying undiscovered areas (but just from your current POV). While improving your skills your eagle gets to fly higher and you gain more overview. Knots, districts and landmarks are clearly distinct and after some progress you have the idea of where you are. I love that way of learning the surroundings.

[@saisameer8771]

Morrowind, gta 3 and vice city come to mind.

[@Tealsquiddev]

This approach to level design is actually genius.

[@cowswirl]

I enjoyed listening to this talk. I am merely a gamer. I do not create games. I would love to have a list of games that employ the approach that this speaker proposes

[@Hwyadylaw]

@@cowswirl Probably not too many, and those that do you'll never know about except for the unlikely case that a level designer mentions it in an interview or conference talk for example.

[@leegarnier9396]

Very well articulated, thank you. It's a great toolset that can also be inverted to reach different goals. In Red Dead Redemption for example there were different characteristic regions. Each had their own climate, vegetation, etc. However the transitions between these districts blurred into each other. This created smooth transitions, making the world feel more believable and larger. Going off the beaten path and the ability to get yourself lost within that world was an intentional part of the experience. It gelled nicely with the theme of trying to escape the advent of civilization in the west.

[@lejocarry]

Thank very much Nicolas ♥ It's clear and useful. You're doing great :D

[@j05hau]

Very well articulated. Thanks for sharing

[@lucashanscom2697]

Thank you, good information!

[@Aaron-oe8xw]

Really good video, i also studied architecture and its amazing how often design and ideas from that area of education can help one in other aspects! Great tutorial for urban environments and layouts I do have one caveat and that was the phrase "if you go outside there are no maps" and i would have to disagree, stars, rivers, and natural land formations can all act as maps or cues in which one does not write down on paper. I am interested in how these natural navigation cues can tie into your theory on cognitive maps

[@InexperiencedDeveloper]

Makes me appreciate the level designers pajama Sam so much more, they know their landmarks

[@jmarsh411]

Super concise and cohesive. Great talk!

[@UnderArea51]

I love this video!!!! VERY HELPFUL!

[@fal_pal_]

This is a galaxy brain level talk that I should rewatch when I'm not getting ready for bed lol. Incredible insight here.

[@zerenchen6064]

Amazing, thanks for sharing that knowlege !!!!!

[@DenisKhoninov]

I think, now - this video is best material for learning for all newbees in Level design.

[@michaelyoung7261]

That would help explain why I enjoyed my play through of Breath of the Wild more when I used the pro hud which removed the minimap

[@Raggra]

I clicked on the title because it thought it hase to do with psychology and cognition.. Didn't realize it's about designing video games.

[@SteveJubs]

The Image of the City is so good!

[@saibotgaming6045]

great talk Nicolas thx

[@robertwahlstrom]

Think the Xenoblade games are experts at designing good worlds with landmarks that melt into the game in a brilliant way. Don't think I ever gotten lost in their games. The road solution is sorta dumb as that can be immersion breaking.

[@dm_ex_machina3395]

A modern game that applies these principles very purposefully would be Deathloop, which relies upon you framing your position through experience. It's a little disorienting when you're accustomed to either linear maps or open maps that provide a minimap, but it was the right decision because lacking that players wouldn't engage with the areas correctly. In fact I think the degradation of cognitive mapping amongst players through habitual use of minimaps is partially why that game struggled on release despite it having wonderful level design and gameplay mechanics throughout. We're all becoming a bit crippled when it comes to navigational skills.

[@maxhuk]

I will never look at a map the same again 😁 Super insightful talk, thank you 🙏

[@HevonCZR]

Great talk and tips!

[@bonecircuit]

The links of reference at the end. The city image and its elements The perfect selfishness of mapping apps Path integration and the neural bias of the cognitive map Path integration in desert ants Embodied interact on with a 3d uses 2d mobile map Death to the mini map Cognitive maps in rats and men Visual map and instruction based bicycle navigation Variations in Cognitive maps understanding individual differences in navigator

[@magonus195]

Great talk!

[@GamerReality]

Very interesting and insightful

[@rewindcat7927]

Fascinating thank you 🙏

[@targard.quantumfrack6854]

Very interesting, thank you

[@sgregory0753]

Just wondering what is the source for the thumbnail, looks really interesting

[@johanlarsson9805]

It's always wierd to me how most people simply does not "feel" where they are. You know exaktly how you moved, therefore you know where you are in relation to the earlier points you've been at. I can go days and weeks knowing exactly where I am whereever I go. If i somehow do manage to loose track of my orientations i feel lost until I manage to orient myself again. I'll start on a new "map" while figuring out where I am and when I finally make it I simply align the newest data with that.

[@EvenTheDogAgrees]

And old-school mathematicians said the same about people not being able to do what to them appear as "simple" calculations in their head, after calculators became commonplace. And they'll also have perfectly logical arguments for how simple it is; e.g.: "How can you have difficulty multiplying 24 by 7? You simply multiply by 10, but you'll overshoot by 30%, which is close enough to 1/3. So taking that off again you'll end up with 160, which is a pretty good approximation; let's nudge it closer to 165-170 to account for the extra 3% you took off"... (yup, done that out of my head; the correct answer, apparently, is 168) Tribesmen and survivalists will find it weird that you can not tell which plants are edible at a quick glance, or which spots are good for setting up camp, and which spots will only cause you misery. Gearheads don't understand how anyone could _not_ know how to do simple repairs on their vehicles, or what that weird noise could be. And handymen find it weird that people don't even know how to do the most simple repairs around the house. Just because you consider something both trivial and somehow important doesn't mean everyone needs to share your opinion. For most people, being able to find their way without the aid of a GPS, is simply not a skill worth having anymore. They still get from A to B. Often while avoiding traffic, road closures, ... because modern GPS now dynamically re-routes you around those. For all intents and purposes, navigating by GPS only has benefits, compared to being able to navigate without. The only downside being that if they're ever dropped in an unfamiliar location, they'll be slower at navigating their way out. Which is merely a theoretical downside, since that will seldom, if ever, happen to them.

[@johanlarsson9805]

@@EvenTheDogAgrees Both of your examples are based on knowledge and experience which is different from "feeling". If you wanted an example it should be closer to knowing where your hand are when closing your eyes or pointing to the direction of a sound... both of which are totally natural and rely on senses and experience rather than knowledge and experience. In short, your examples are wrong but I am looking forward to your next try.

[@pushkar000]

@@EvenTheDogAgreeswell said! Fitting examples in this context. Everyone will have those things they consider basically natural, which others can’t do.

[@alfred0231]

I wanted to like Fez, but I kept getting lost. It was extremely difficult to create a cognitive map. Its the only game I quit playing because I kept getting lost.

[@rebeccachambers4701]

I think one thing video games do and then they fail at is they don't remember they're making a video game. I'll give you a perfect example cyberpunk 2077 it's flat this isn't Grand theft Auto this is the future it's cyberpunk there's skyscrapers things being built on top of each other's and the environment feels so very flat it feels like every other City You have mechanics in a game you have mechanics to move around and I don't think enough people when they make maps are making the maps in mind for the game so the players can really experience the most of the movement that they can do in the game. I mean also the the overall teams can receive the same blame for this but. Another example of this would be like Warframe they have 0 maps that go vertically and it is a game where the mechanics could definitely allow for it where your progressing a map or down a map. There are many games that do not include vertical map making because they're thinking of making a map like they would in real life. And sure it wouldn't work for all games but there's a lot of games where it's not just about necessarily platforming but when you're kind of feel like you're stuck on a 2d plane it feels a lot more like a game especially when it's a game that could have more three dimension and I don't mean flying around

[@silverklapwijk7963]

very educational!!

[@whowho1693]

in additive, there would be another way I think quite effective. this was quite interesting to me.... I had experience long time ago to make cognitive space by color planning like cognitive water dive depth with color change. I wanna adapt that other environment also but result.... I don know lol

[@BigDaddyWes]

Awesome!

[@Rize-TheArtOfPlay]

I am actually working on a housework for my studies about wayfinding in games atm. Good to see that the topic is not completely forgotten. There are way too little resources on it in my opinion.

[@lortigaproductions3120]

And yet, despite all these wonderfull metods to create navigability, most developers just say fuck it and cover the screen with arrows and minimaps.

[@tigersonalex]

Very good food for thought

[@psi4042]

hi archi bro thanks for good talk

[@maulanalaser4748]

High Details + High Variation of Height & Depth + Several Gradient of Shadow -> High Realism

[@monhoobatraa3967]

Interesting subject

[@misbahprayoga4181]

Miyazaki really make caelid fucking memorable landmark :v

[@PavelFadrhonc]

more like district but yeah Elden Ring is great example of all of these rules

[@nemesisurvivorleon]

Fantastic

[@maxmustsleep]

I find the thumbnail to be a bit misleading since this talk doesn't actually go into journey like at all But I do love the contents!

[@unuslupus-csa]

It's from the studio that made Journey, hence the Journey thumbnail.

[@maxmustsleep]

@@unuslupus-csa I know that, but apart from a screenshot in the beginning it doesn't come up that's why I find it misleading. I thought maybe he'd talk about level design in journey at least as an example but that's not the case

[@RailbladerX]

Could "Arrow Mazes" be a good starting point for creating these "cognitive maps"?

[@Tymon0000]

at which company?

[@fa-pm5dr]

interesting talk

[@LANSl0t]

what game company

[@LLJW4]

I feel like Elden Ring is pretty good at this, with all the creatures and items placed in just the right place to emphasise the different areas.

[@vlaskz]

Landamark: Cluckin' Bell in Las Venturas desert...

[@PSLegend999]

14:50 the group on the right is much simpler to determine than Dwarf Fortress's entire game. The left one is child's play, haha

[@audioblogs12]

He uses "edge" like "border" when I'm used to hearing it in conjunction with "node" to refer to the lines of a graph...