Stop Giving Format Feedback

Get Practical Tools to Write Your Great Screenplay: www.practicalscreenwriting.com
When giving or receiving feedback on a story, one of the biggest mistakes new writers make is that they focus only on giving script format feedback and they don't give feedback on the actual story.
This shows that the person giving feedback doesn't actually have a solid understanding of story. Today I break down why giving script format feedback is useless and how you should approach giving and receiving story feedback.
Check out The Practical Screenwriting Course at www.practicalscreenwriting.com.
/ mowery

[@TylerMowery]

Get Practical Tools to Write Your Great Screenplay: www.practicalscreenwriting.com

[@mattkhourie4037]

Agreed. I hate giving my books' mansuscripts to friends and beta readers who only point out typos. Feels like working w the jerk who aches to correct grammar online.

[@ryanratchford2530]

Matt Khourie Completely agree. A copy edit is 100% useless because most of the manuscript will be rewritten so no point wasting time on that. As long as it’s readable, then please give relevant feedback.

[@one_man_community]

If they're able to correct you. They know what you meant.

[@mattkhourie4037]

@@one_man_community right? I wouldn't mind the corrections, honestly if it was a word used completely wrong or if i asked for a proof read. But telling me i wrote a 'teh' instead of 'the' on page 71 doesnt help me get a feel for how the story is working lol.

[@jibrijibri4548]

The beta readers who do this are probably worried you’ll miss it, but that’s what professional editors are for!

[@mattkhourie4037]

@@jibrijibri4548 maybe. But they know its not not first rodeo lol. And definitely, definitely thats what pro editors are for.

[@RobKristjansson]

I think what some folks are doing here is a great example of intuitive heuristics - "when faced with a difficult question, we often answer an easier one instead, usually without noticing the substitution" - Daniel Kahneman, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' Giving story feedback is plain hard, so a lot of folks swap the story part for grammar and spelling, and proceed, without even knowing they did the question swap. I think what we need to do when asking for feedback is be pretty specific about what we're looking for. Maybe even a questionnaire that asks questions like: - what's a possible logline for this story? - who is the protagonist? what is his/her story want? Need? (same for antagonist) - does the protagonist drive the story, or react? etc.

[@GrrMania]

I just wanted to say that you have maybe THE best writing content on KZbin. I along with many others are grateful for your channel. ❤️

[@TylerMowery]

Thank you!

[@shashwatjoshi3123]

@@TylerMowery he is right. People like you help us hope to be screenwriters without spending boatload amount of money to film schools

[@yourbarista4154]

The main obstacle for getting feedback is finding people secure enough they can give quality feedback. Most are insecure and have to point out whatever the can find to convince themselves they’re smart. I love this video and am glad you said something about it.

[@ggccllfour1398]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is a not a commentary video on improper feedback, this is a PSA. You are a true writer at heart, this video shows it all.

[@TylerMowery]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@andymason2457]

This channel changed the way i see movies forever you fueled my passion for becoming screenwriter despite of all odds in my way and how hard it is to prove your self among the hundreds of thousands of people who are trying to pass the field... I hope we get to work together one day. Love for you all.

[@TylerMowery]

That’s so awesome to hear!

[@songseakleng]

Guys look. He did say it matters when you sell it to production. So don’t just cmt disagree before listening!

[@thetramp123]

But I think he's also wrong when he says that anyone can just do a quick pass over a script and format it correctly. I've read countless scripts where this simply isn't true, and it's something that should be encouraged to learn early so screenwriters don't develop bad habits. Screenwriting is also a kind of writing where the form is inherently linked to its storytelling. I mean, saying that structure is divorced from format is just blatantly false. I don't think anyone is suggesting to ignore story for format, but an understanding of format will go a long way to writing better and faster. If writers want to focus on story first and format second then write a treatment. I mean, it's fine for people who have a relative understanding of format and might just have made a few mistakes here and there, like in his example about bad header here or there, and in that case I would agree. I'll still point out typos and mistakes, because normally when I read a lot of scripts, I've taken a job to do so. And that means to break it down both technically and narratively. But there are *so* many times I've read scripts where the writer's formatting is just an active obstruction to the story and to the reading. Though I'm also partial to the view that a script should have several passes before even getting it in front of someone else's eyes in the first place. Normally needing one or two rewrites before even the writer (okay, me, I guess) understands what works and where it's going before I would want to ask someone else. So by that time I would hope to have caught the majority of formatting issues or typos in some proofreading. Though mistakes are bound to come up. Which is why they should still be pointed out by other readers, because fresh eyes might catch what one might miss. And if a writer is only getting general formatting feedback and not much of any use they might just need to switch up who they're asking to read for them.

[@ventrillo9]

Yeah, I don't get the big thing with format when you are trying to nail the story you are trying to tell. I have old scripts that don't follow format and have typos for miles. Then when I did post it to the group, those were the first two points that were pointed it out. That was fine but I think I remember it saying "how do you expect someone to take you seriously?" ...I wrote something and posted it to the group page, how much more serious do I have to show? Something clean cut? Otherwise thank you for putting this video out because the whole format thing just bugs me

[@santinodicapua2777]

Have you considered maybe turning the ebook into a physical book?

[@TylerMowery]

I’ve thought about it! Right now is a bad time with the virus and everything. But it’s something I’d like to do in the future.

[@migueldelgadillo4097]

Giving feedback should not be mutually exclusive (format feedback or story feedback). When I write script coverage, 95% of the notes are about structure, character, dialogue, etc. But if I notice that people are having consistent formatting errors, that last 5% is usually to correct format. There's obviously an imbalance of importance between story and formatting, but formatting is still important and I think it's important to remind the writer to work on formatting if they're having issues.

[@eastflix]

Hey Tyler. I am a film - maker in Mumbai. I am thankful that you are doing this, fortunate to discover your channel. I have directed feature films, music videos and short films. I have even won a national award for my last feature film. WOuld like to see more of your videos. Keep doing this. Thank you.

[@SlenderGamer56]

Thank you! I asked for some feedback on a server and I get a DM of some guy saying I formatted the description of a character wrong. Never heard back from them again lol.

[@paulandrus8760]

Thanks for your good advice, your Practical Screenwriting course, ebook and videos. Keep up the good work.

[@TylerMowery]

Thanks Paul!

[@darryl0745]

I never give format feedback. I only give story feedback.

[@MookieMc]

I agree. Having compelling characters within a solid story is key. Content (good content) will win out at the end of the day. However, OCD folks will not be happy until every FLASHBACK (heaven forbid), INTERCUT and V.O. versus O.S. versus O.C. question is answered and formatted properly. The truth of the matter is that, for a spec script, you, as the author, are in charge and you get to, literally, call all of the shots. Once it's sold, it is out of your hands. But right now, you have the option to use anything you desire to tell the story. You can PAN or ZOOM or do whatever you want. The key is to make it engage the reader (audience) and to move the story forward in a compelling way. Formatting is important to a certain degree, but what's more important is the story you want to tell. Make it a good one. Also, ​Tyler Mowery are you using a dry erase board on an even bigger dry erase board? If so, that is epic.

[@miamirosefilms9760]

Extremely underrated video and channel. Have learnt so much from your videos!

[@Mlk-Al-Halabi]

Thanks for the clarity that you have in your videos !

[@TylerMowery]

Thanks for watching them!

[@ProfessorWalnut]

Format Feedback isn't constructive criticism, it's editing.

[@Ruylopez778]

I think people often find it easier to jump in and correct grammar/formatting, because there is a "correct" way. In a way, they are not confident enough in their judgement of the story (or even they lost interest in it/couldn't follow it). However, we should also be clear with readers what feedback we want. We need to let them know that it's not about whether they liked it or not, or what was good or bad. "I want to know if there's anything about the story you found confusing." And even just ask them their opinion on why characters were motivated in certain ways, "Why do you think X did this?" It's also important to perhaps ignore advice telling you *how* to change what you've written or *what* to change. Just focus on the reason behind why they think something should be different (e.g. a character is behaving in an inconsistent way) and work on the issue. Also, wait 48 hours after feedback before rushing to make any changes. Better not to make to write a sloppy story that is trying to please ten different people. It can also be useful to re-read earlier drafts and see if there is any 'essential context' that has been lost in the rewrite that needs to added back in. *All just advice I've heard or read

[@davidbridgeman]

I don't disagree with the premise of the video BUT I do disagree that 'any idiot can format a script'. It's clearly not the case with the number of incorrectly formatted scripts you see.

[@davidbridgeman]

I also disagree that giving formatting feedback means you don't understand story. Format is the absolute first thing you see. But, again, I agree that it would be more helpful to the writer and you as the reader to analyze the story.

[@beekenko2379]

@@davidbridgeman He's saying that format is vital at the very last stage... b/c it can deter the writer and get them off their pivot... the story is the focus in the 1st and second draft

[@anthonycorcino6700]

Actually you just got to know what the hell are you writing.

[@lukemurphy98]

I think if someone's willing to give you the time of day to read your script, you should at least make that experience as easy as possible for them. They deserve that respect. Format is there for a reason. It makes the reading experience easier. It's fine to have drafts without proper formating, but people should keep those to themselves. That being said, if all a reader can offer is format feedback then they clearly are only giving a swallow glance at the script and that's something that anyone can do.

[@dburnsauthor]

Thank you soooooooo much for posting this. This helped me so much 😍🤗

[@rohanann4914]

It is a stupid thing to criticise however, if you were breaking down all elements of the story and the script itself and the format of the script really was bad, I think it’s ok to point it out and say how to format your script properly, but as long as that is not you primary compliant towards the script, then it’s fine. If someone says: can you review my story, review their story. If they say:review my script, then review the script. Point out mistakes and make constructive criticism, but remember what you are asked to criticise, and what the thing you are criticising is about. I.e. script is about story, so try and focus your criticism on the story.

[@lyricarol]

Thanks for this! When I started writing screenplays a while back, I bought a good up-to-date screenplay writing program, which prevents a lot errors right from the get go. I also made sure to study formatting in order to be informed. Yet I often received criticism about my formatting, only to discover that the critic was using outdated information, or that the critic was just plain wrong, or to find out there's more than one acceptable way to format some minor issue. But, my formatting was never really bad, and most of all, as yopu p[oimnt out, I was hungry for a substantive critique.The formatting critics made such a big deal about it, though, I started to feel as if any minor mistake would land your script in the can. You'll look like an amateur! But I kept asking myself, would a formatting error really result in a screenplay's dismissal of an otherwise very good script? I doubt it! No one's going to throw out the next Star Wars screenplay because it contains a few formatting errors. All that said, I did recently advise a newbie to format correctly. I suggested he read scripts and perhaps buy software. There were so many glaring errors that the text was hard to read pay attention to. Even though I agree with you, I think I gave that person the right advice. Now, he's doing much better. The same holds true for grammar. Garbled sentences and paragraphs just don't cut it, but in this field, neither do you have to be perfect. And in dialogue, you want imperfections. The trick is, the writer has to be in control of the imperfections.

[@JoJo-xp6wr]

Studiobinder makes an entire video about format, then you, a fine young man, say that format is not important, also, is it needed for me to write a script with a format if I will be the only one working on the movie?

[@Giovannix51]

Youssef HEGAZY 2 He’s not saying it’s not important at all, it’s just format is not as important as story.

[@TylerMowery]

Format is important at the very very end. It's not what you should be focusing on when you're giving or receiving story feedback. If you're the only one working on it, then you do it however you want.

[@JoJo-xp6wr]

I understand, thanks, my friend

[@5staridiotproductions731]

If you’re the only one writing the script, and you’re the only one seeing the script, there’s no need for format. Sure, it’s good practice... but no need. I always write first drafts on paper to be more involved in the script, and that doesn’t have a format to it. Format is really only needed when you begin showing it to people. Unfortunately, if you’re trying to get your script sold or made by anyone but yourself, they’ll immediately turn you away if your formatting isn’t perfect. Sad but true...

[@JoJo-xp6wr]

@@5staridiotproductions731professionalism, though

[@vigneshravi6303]

Hi tyler I'm your fan from india . I've kept watching your videos that you've done and learned a lot form it . Now I'm on writing very first script. Thanks a lot to inspire me to write . I hope I would get it done

[@dnek1644]

Hey man, love all your videos and your channel! I've been watching all of them and you offer great advice. I was wondering if you could maybe do a video on REWRITES (sorry for the caps, I just wanted to emphasize that word lol)? :) I feel like everybody puts so much emphasis on getting that first draft out, but nobody ever really discusses the process of rewrites. How long do you wait in between writing the first draft or second draft? Do you dive in immediately or do you like to let it sit for a bit so you can return to it with fresh eyes? Would love to hear/see you talk about your process with going through rewrites!

[@AntonWongVideo]

I wouldn't say Stop giving it, but, if someone's asking for feedback on their script, they probably are looking for feedback on the story. Though, perhaps, folks who ask for feedback should be more explicit in WHAT KIND of feedback they're looking for (grammar, format, story, character, symbolism, etc.)

[@beekenko2379]

format is subjective in 1st and second draft

[@nicktheritter]

There are times when bad formatting can get in the way of understanding the story. In that case, I think format feedback is crucial.

[@TylerMowery]

But that is rare. Most of the time format feedback just masks the critics ignorance in regards to knowing how a story works.

[@nicktheritter]

@@TylerMowery Rare based on your sample set, sure. All I'm saying is that both can be valid kinds of feedback given different circumstances.

[@purityancerjallah4643]

nice i like it ur such good teacher to me

[@ericmathias4814]

tyler mowery i like u reasons u just a good teacher to me

[@Pearl_media]

this is such a common thing done by incompetent academics. some of the greatest screenwriters don´t even write in script form before it is absolutely necessary and i get why, a word is nothing without intent.

[@isthisavalidusername]

100%. Nothing worse than people giving you grammar and spelling feedback on a first draft. like, that's the last thing I'm worried about right now. I'll get to all that on the final draft.

[@originalbrighto]

Hey Tyler, can you do a video on outlining a script. It would be so helpful atm.

[@anothercharacter]

I think formatting matters. I mean not in the early stages of writing perhaps. But it's like a book's cover, it will give your screenplay a chance. If a producer opens your screenplay and there are so many formatting errors they probably won't understand your story. I mean if someone writes like prosa and not screenwriting. Of course minor errors might not matter... but formatting rules are there for a reason.

[@Nick-ft4dk]

Can you do a video talking about civillian feedback and your opinions of it? I wonder if feedback from people who arent interested in screenwriting and filmmaking is valuable or not, and if not is there a practical application to dissecting and interpreting their thoughts on the piece.

[@ElliotCoen]

Format doesn't matter to story, but it absolutely can matter to people in the industry. Some people won't read your first page as soon as they see it not in the correct format. You could have the best story ever, but they won't get as far as reading it. I don't think this is right, but it's a sad state of affairs some times. Basically, I think story matters a lot, but formatting also does matter.

[@TylerMowery]

Formatting barely matters when you are sending your story to people in the industry. And no one should be sending their terrible stories to industry people. Story matters most. And until you have a strong story, nothing else matters.

[@Ruylopez778]

I see what you're saying, and it's important to submit something looking as professional as possible, and that is entirely the writer's responsibility in knowing their craft. Having said that, if you've written an amazing script, with a great logline, and the person reading it can't get through the first page because of a formatting reason, that's maybe not a person with the mindset you want to work with.

[@anthonycorcino6700]

@@TylerMowery the story is important yes but it's the format that really draws your mind and the readers into the ambience of the world created.

[@briansimerl4014]

Point being...ask whether the person who is definitely looking for story advice whether they indeed want your editing advice as well.

[@jannis6600]

Yesterday, I watched a video about overwriting a screenplay. Would you say pointing out overwriting problems counts as a format feedback? I mean, it's not about the story elements, so....?

[@thetramp123]

I would say it's important to point out, but I also think it's important to point out formatting issues as well. But those are more so things to point out in addition to larger issues in a script. But I view any issue that may hinder a reader's experience with getting through a script as important to address. So sure they aren't as important as underdeveloped characters or clouded motivation, or any other more apparent story problems but they're also things one should try to catch sooner than later. To be able to keep from developing bad habits and to not have to worry about relying on a quick proofread before sending it off. Since professionals read piles of scripts they're often looking for reasons to put it down than looking for a reason to keep going, so a writer needs to try their best not to give them a reason. Shouldn't stress yourself out worrying about a format mistake, but it's still good to learn early and to try and catch any mistakes early as well. As for overwriting I think one of the best points I've heard was (I think) from watching something with paul schrader where he said to stop trying to think of screenwriting like writing a novel. But that it's more linked to an oral tradition of storytelling than a literary one. Which gives it the impression of sitting down in front of a captive audience telling them a story. So this helps me stay in the mindset of how I would shape that experience for those imaginary listeners. But just as well makes me also mindful of underwriting something too. I've read some scripts where writers seem afraid to be too descriptive as well, so they'll say something like "it was frightening" or "it was intense" when a scene would have much more impact if something set that mood or feeling than just told its reader this. Instead of just telling the reader but giving them a means of feeling tense or frightened themselves by describing something that happens in the script. But that, like overwriting, all comes back to being mindful with how you're shaping your audiences experience, and keeping it engaging to read.

[@samtanwar1108]

Please make a video on How to make charecters origin?

[@ReFilm72]

Can you please do a video about rewrite?

[@autumnrose9922]

Hi Tyler, I'm new around here.. and I did get the ad for your practical writing course, but I'm torn. I don't know if I should start the course, because I'm younger than everyone there. I don't want people to undermine me/my skills because I'm still a minor, and I do want to take this opportunity and finish my half-done pieces of work. Do you allow people like me to join your course?

[@alyssathelemon2235]

You’re better off getting MasterClass. He’s a student.

[@autumnrose9922]

@@alyssathelemon2235 Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

[@dinovelocir1115]

When you say “format feedback”, are you including in action line feedback?

[@welshinc5782]

That's what I'm wondering, because action line placement effects the story and how the reader visions it

[@5staridiotproductions731]

People who start off feedback with format criticisms are fools... some screenwriters do stuff like that because they don't have much criticism to say and/or want to 'put down' the mentee screenwriter asking for advice. Format criticism is almost as bad someone telling you to fix grammar in dialogue lol.

[@TylerMowery]

Agreed

[@joelmacha2104]

While I generally agree that minor errors should be ignored, I've seen things with such large errors that it made the story hard to understand. Mostly it was missing description. But I think it depends on how bad it is. Imagine a piano player asking you to critique a song, but the piano is horribly out of tune. It doesn't matter how masterfully the keys were played if the result is screeching nonsense. The best story in the world can't be told well if I am not getting the information I am supposed to. The conflict might be brilliant, but if you miss the voice over tag every time, I might think this character is a lunatic who narrates his life out loud. Also, you kind of just insulted everyone who doesn't get formatting by calling them idiots and monkeys.

[@ev7785]

The ones who give feedback on grammar and not on the story are the ones who cant write one.

[@bluemonk44]

So what is format? Can you give us an example?

[@TheRebelDottie]

You should always at least mention when formatting is off. No one will take your script seriously when the formatting is off. At least warn them before you give them story feedback.

[@KiDn0cuDi]

I've heard some moan about not being able to read one's work because of the format. It's an odd apathetic position to take. Like they're attempting to gain some form of pseudo place of hierarchy because they understand the - in other words - template. As Tyler mentioned, anyone can learn to formate, but to make a great story? Nah. I'll give any writer a 'beta read' if they like, just message to me.

[@sunnypardeshi8966]

Top line and bottom line: How well you tell your story. Everything else is a makeover which is needed later on. #TheStorytellers

[@daftbanna7202]

Damn we all need haircuts right now

[@TylerMowery]

Hahaha

[@cubul32]

Stop picking on his formating!

[@JoyjeetGupta]

Except writer's room what other Facebook group you run

[@TylerMowery]

The practical screenwriting course has a private Facebook group attached to it.

[@JoyjeetGupta]

@@TylerMowery is that available for those who attends the course?

[@jaronjoel4582]

Hello

[@rohanann4914]

Hello there, stranger on the internet

[@jjbrinkman6500]

You look like Giovani lo celcso

[@nathanielmontebon1798]

Unfortunately if you want to break in the industry, it does.

[@ericmathias4814]

tyler am merysah i need the friendship with you because am ur student in your utube channel and i need to learn more from you

[@matthewgayles3973]

No sir ... you’ve got to learn the basics. If you can’t even write a slug line properly I’m not going to read your script. 👎👎👎

[@ishaansharma8215]

first comment just like i joined your facebook group the second i got to know about it

[@leowong2613]

so your saying after all the changes i made its a wast of time?

[@TylerMowery]

I'm saying focus on making a better story, not a terrible story that's well-formatted.

[@anthonycorcino6700]

@@TylerMowery but on your thumbnail you said it doesn't matter

[@Leprechaunproduction]

I disagree. When I worked as a script reader, I came across numerous scripts that had good stories, but incorrect formatting that made them annoying to read. While the occasional mistake or typo was forgivable, I lost track of how many scripts were swamped with formatting errors, descriptions that were half a page long, etc. Readers don't have the time to go through scripts that aren't formatted correctly, and look for any reason to reject a script so they can try to make a dent in their never-ending to-do list. I did. Unless you're an established, big-name filmmaker, executives don't have the time or patience to read stuff that looks like it was written by an amateur. First impressions matter, and terrible formatting tells the reader that you aren't interested in how well you present yourself, and that WILL hurt you. Take the time to learn how to format a screenplay and tell a story within that format. If you do, you have a MUCH better chance of getting your screenplay into the 'consider' or 'recommend' pile.

[@purenuggets]

How about identifying serious members and creating a whatsapp group or email group with them?

[@VIK_1903]

1) Once I had this experience, showed the screenplay and got format feedback. Never talked to my (now ex) friend again. Pointless. 2) This is great advice. 3) People in the comment section are oblivious muppets. I can't believe they're trying to argue with this. 4) I'm really impressed with the amount of these clueless gits. Not only they miss the point as they try to argue. Amazing. 5) Great video.

[@KDRtheMDDGNS]

I like your videos but your FB group was filled with no names speaking down on others when we are all in the same boat of trying to be the best storyteller we can be.

[@gravityfel7896]

3 minutes ago... My new KZbin record.

[@burgerthecat2190]

This is already not good advice. Limitations and rules are set in place to help you. If you can’t get the format down, then you probably shouldn’t be writing a screenplay.

[@TylerMowery]

On the contrary, formatting is so simple but you’re bound to make a couple mistakes. Story criticism is more important than format criticism always.

[@burgerthecat2190]

If you want story feedback, then create a script outline and beat sheet. Not a script. If you’re writing a script and your format is wrong, it’s a clear sign that you probably don’t have the story down yet either, so that’s just my take on it.

[@film_magician]

I disagree.

[@solracv8528]

Lmao

[@TylerMowery]

A story will always be more important than formatting. Who wants a well-formatted bad script? Create a good story first, then you can easily spend 30 minutes correcting any format mistakes.