Stop Optimizing Fun

Games aren't that complicated. Just do what you want and what works.
The Discord server here (18+) / discord
#warhammer40k #warhammer #darktide

[@JebblesJunior]

One thing I'd like to reiterate as I've seen some confusion. Mind the "As long as you pull your own weight" caveat to the "Do whatever you want" sentiment.

[@agedgouda8809]

Lots of players don’t pull their weight tho, hence I think some people will be overly sensitive to unoptimized builds.

[@williejackson6905]

​@@agedgouda8809I hope y'all don't mean anything towards console players because I'm pretty damn sure we can hold our weight through any mission besides besides PC players that's always playing for competition.

[@agedgouda8809]

@@williejackson6905 no hate towards console specifically, there’s loads of pc players who throw missions in my experience

[@omegapanda9980]

Ive been loving the game; 30 hrs so far. Main thing that kills us usually isn’t competencey i think. Anytime we die everyone is miles apart. Ive seens some cracked lvl 30s solo the world in a crazy wild pov but i dont think everyone should separate and kill like john wick; massive hords and special units would be alot easier if we were all nearby; and I try to always follow people. Only time i die is when the floating deamon or certain metal defense enemies wanna punch me, outside of that, i usually wont die to anything else

[@veameal9725]

Precious. I'd game with your mindset even if I had to play uprising

[@thomas_dries]

I posted a clip to Reddit a few months ago of a Zealot that pulled off an INSANE carry. The whole team was dead except him and he went up against hundreds of elites, survived, and revived us all! Nearly every comment on that Reddit post was shitting on the guy who carried us because his build wasn't 'optimized'...

[@XiaosaGaming]

Majority of reddit people are crazy anyway I would take reddit with a grain of salt.

[@narottamakarunanidhi1731]

can i have a link for the reddit post? i want to see it lol

[@agedgouda8809]

That sucks, sounds like it was a cool moment

[@somedudewithgrassgrowingou4177]

Reddit is a shithole full of people obsessed with having a better build than you on paper so the can feel extra much like a little low-skilled cuckhold when they inevetably perform worse anyway. They get off on the shame and humiliation there can't be any other reason.

[@Sick_and_Twisted1]

That's because reddit is a toilet of under-achievers who get pissy when someone shows actual skill and/or goes against the hivemind. Those are the moments that make the game interesting. That's a shouting "F yea! He did it!" at your screen while punching GFG into chat moment.

[@kylecoolage4251]

Rule of cool baby. Idgaf if my ogryn is underpowered or not meta, the deamon gets the flying rock

[@DREADEDuuubGAMING]

Always and forever

[@Rocket5150]

Karkn' right!

[@TheCullousus]

For the Emperor!!!!

[@fellsoull]

Ogryn is best boy

[@ClaytonNeuner]

As fellow ogryn pal, I approve this message

[@jamiekay4210]

It's also been my experience that the same people who push "the meta" are also the same ones willing to abuse exploits or bugs, only to get pissy when the devs fix them. They like having their "easy button" too, they just like feeling that their way is the more "elite" way of doing it.

[@MegaCommander007]

Based take, that's something I noticed too. In fact I have a great example of that from when I used to play the cursed game of Rainbow 6 Siege (Which I don't recognise even slightly as anything Tom Clancy). I was the last person alive 1v1 and as usual I was having this idiot acquaintance moan at me what I should be doing, in this case he was complaining about my choice of position and telling me to move somewhere else and to move in such a way as to glitch out my character model. I didn't and wound up watching my opponent prefire their entire mag right into where I was being told to move, then I won the round. Do you think that moron heard a word I said when I told him that I don't like going into "meta spots" as that's exactly what other "meta" users would expect me to do? They're self absorbed toddlers with an inflated sense of elitism and honestly they drive a games community into the ground (Battlefield and CoD are the first that come to mind) as every game plays the exact same way and as people get sick of dealing with the toxic "meta players".

[@fancyelk2373]

A lot of em yeah, but you’ve also got autistic min/max players like tanner linberg who are objectively better than you and 99% of players. They’re meta pushing, but they’d still whoop you in success with basic gray weapons on auric maelstrom. Trying to say they’re not good at the game and just want an easy button is disingenuous to me.

[@africanpenguin3282]

The meta is usually a buff bug exploit just about every time. I just wanna go pew pew with an HMG build, slash slash with my Krieg shovel build, and lightening around screaming "Unlimited Power" into the mic. As long as you're not griefing or dying constantly by running off alone, I don't care. ​@@MegaCommander007

[@Sick_and_Twisted1]

@@MegaCommander007 Bullseye! There are certain friends I can't play regularly with because they just "meta" and no-life the fun out of a game.

[@bwestacado9643]

​@@Sick_and_Twisted1 That's the hard part of playing online, playing with other people. I want to have fun my way, not get a lecture because some rando doesn't like my choices

[@RBOBemployee]

Exactly. My moto is "if you pull your weight in a team play - you can play whatever you want"

[@TheRealSykx]

lol that's what people are complaining about smykers for.. not pulling their own weight. sweet delicious irony, yum yum

[@TheoLavoie-kr8cq]

On EVERYTHING.

[@Bigman-hi2ne]

Ya know you can optimize a smite psycher build? They’re really op once you learn how to use them, but you aren’t going to get good at it unless you use it, which generally involves spamming it for a while. The amount that y’all bitch about smite is stupid.

[@sladelius6174]

motto*

[@well8250]

Same here idc if you wanna run forward just don't die

[@Torinatorr]

Personally, I'm in the middle camp. :3 I think that 99% of people should just play what they want in this game and have a good time. I don't think anyone has a right to say anything about another player queing into their lobby unless they are dead for a majority of that game. I also optimize FOR fun. This is a separate camp. I think the problem becomes where optimizers refuse to believe people just wanting a casual game can have fun in that environment, and the discourse that optimal play for some reason cannot possibly be fun. Some of us like eeking out that last 2%. End of the day just enjoy. : 3

[@MegaCommander007]

I mean, that's the way it should be. I don't think you'll find alot of people having an issue with you tweaking your build in peace like a car lover tuning their vehicle to get an extra bit of speed out of it. In summary, I wish more optimizers were like you and just enjoyed doing their own thing without forcing it on others. Have a good one, glhf 🤠.

[@SergeyWaytov]

Im screenshotting you both for Posterity, cuz its like the Ultimate W Take on the matter!

[@gadflyofhumanity_6847]

As long as you stay away from auric maelstrom I don't care.

[@MegaCommander007]

@@gadflyofhumanity_6847 Oh look, there's one of the very annoying people we were just speaking of... Quick question, who made you god and gave you the right to tell people what difficulties they can or can't play on? Better yet, how often do you try to run ahead of the group and trigger every group of enemies before going down first; then blame your team for not keeping up (thanks to the horde you created) and then baby rage quit the game? I'd bet very often, like most "meta" players I've seen and have been captured in various peoples videos... TLDR: No one asked you a damn thing!

[@XiaosaGaming]

We both in this camp, I love to optimize for fun, but I also agree that we shouldn't force that such on others and acknowledge that people are entitle to play the game how they see fit. Who cares if its not as optimal, as long as at the end of the day we all having a good time together is what matters and as a team we make it through together.

[@omegaonthefly1977]

I’m just tired of people quitting matches. I don’t care why you died, but just because you died doesn’t mean it’s over. Stick around and see how it plays out at least.

[@spub1031]

The number of times I've seen a single person save a run like the God Emporer himself has blessed them with the balls of the custodes is astounding.

[@gadflyofhumanity_6847]

Hell no. What usually happens is that the _rest_ of the team gets downed cuz that one _silent_ netter can shoot through walls, or the horde of maulers and crushers *crush* them noobs cuz they weapons would hit 'em like wet pool noodles.

[@alexmartin3191]

​@@gadflyofhumanity_6847but if that is the case, you only waste a minute or two. Might as well stick around and see what happens

[@kuehnjakob]

No, don’t encourage them to stay! I‘ve had multiple games saved by bots replacing them, able to pick me or a buddy up after the shitshow the guy who left created. It sounds embarrassing, but one bot shouldn’t really be enough to make a win out of a loss, they were more useful at least then the guy who left.

[@agedgouda8809]

Fr, quitters are so damn frustrating

[@Mordecaisolosurverse]

Bro darktide just came out for ps5 today and i wanted to be a psyker cuz i wanna be a super dope space wizard. I kid u not Some dweebs on pc and xbox were calling me slurs because the character im using is "too op" like, bich i paid 50 bucks for this game so i play who i want how i want

[@voidyll5582]

Ignore those players, psyker is incredibly fun but by no means over powered. All classes have strengths and weaknesses, and the only class I'd say that is considerably different in strength is that the ogryn is fairly weak compared to the other classes

[@IsabellaRosalina]

Can you link a build? Pleaze

[@Rogue_Speed]

Feel your pain there but the opposite. Got a veteran with a Bolt gun. Fucking love the bolt gun. It doesn’t have a lot of ammo but it shreds bosses and feels good to shoot. But some people are saying that it’s not as good as the recon lasgun build or plasma gun build with this perk and this perk and this perk. I don’t care. I like my build. It’s fun and it keeps me alive. That’s all I care about. It’s my playstyle man that’s the whole point of the classes

[@wispyz0]

i’m sorry have they played zeal and vet? they are ACTUALLY op at the highest end but most people just cry about pysker cuz it’s a lower skill curve to get great results. this is why we just. have. fun! i’m never gonna cry about some pysker smiting a horde away in pubs because it also lets me focus elites and specials as vet. people cry just to cry

[@wispyz0]

@@Rogue_Speeddoesn’t even make sense cuz boltgun is up there right alongside recon and the plasma (okay maybe plasma eats all their dinners but vet has so many viable play styles it hardly matter what weapon you’re using as long as you use it and build it right)

[@2op4u41]

Gate keepers in PVE are the weirdest type of ppl. 😂

[@elseggs6504]

Brother Destiny 2 is notorious for this. The average posts basically dictate your build or else you'll be kicked. Demand you've done that raid 10 times even though it came out that week (often takes 1-4h). The bizarre thing is that those raids are designed to be cleared by almost any build and the worst thing about non-optimal is ylu have to do a fight longer. Thats it Low stakes, not that high of a difficulty, still more demanding and harder to please than a spoiled Tinder-Princess xD

[@2op4u41]

@@elseggs6504 See? 💀

[@2op4u41]

@@elseggs6504 See, the weirdest type of people. 💀

[@murdurmuffin7872]

Think of it this way... you be playing game, having fun taking on difficult challenges, then someone who doesn't have the knowledge or skill to even be attempting that challenge comes along side and makes something that pressured and tested you even more difficult. It's not your fault things are harder than they should be, but you still have the time you invested in the activity essentially wasted because someone else decided to go to the deep end and drown before their swimming lessons. For example, the number of players with single digit levels playing in heresy and damnation missions is frankly comical. My crafting material grind just increased by 300% because too many people who don't know what elites sound like think it's fun to donate blood to chaos.

[@Garl_Vinland]

What does that have to do with dictating builds? We’re talking people curating level 30 havoc missions, not underlevelled players. Everyone has the same skill points, everyone is equal, but you are dictating what perks your teammates should pick.

[@jamesflowers1295]

The crybabies rage quit when they don't get their way most often, so it's fine

[@Tang1294]

You look like you follow elementary school children "for fun"

[@shanehunt3019]

The only thing more fragile than a "high level" players ego is the half life of the heavy radioactive element oganesson.

[@LazarusBell]

As an optimzer myself, I say as long as you don't spend the whole mission on the ground or waiting to be rescued, you have my full respect, no matter what build you're using.

[@EKk8819]

i agree with everything on here. I keep hearing people say use this not that, if you use this you're doing it wrong.. Like for veteran I use stealth vet and everyone keeps acting like the shout vet is the only way to play, but I don't feel comfortable or like using that special, I like to use stealth then back stab, and I get way more kills and am a better team mate with it. If I listened to what everyone else is doing this game would suck for me and I'd suck at it.

[@dredgen0268]

I have this sentiment for games like Warframe and First Descendant; like min maxing is useful for some stuff like end game-but it’s definitely not needed. I enjoy doing what I enjoy, regardless of whether or not the character or weapon is uber meta.

[@swordsman1_messer]

My only rules when it comes to a game; -Pull your weight -Admit what you’re bad at -Ask for help -Learn how to read the situation There’s nothing wrong with not knowing. It’s not wanting to learn that I have issue with. Players themselves are a challenge, both the competent and the incompetent. I play War Thunder on binges, and it never ceases to amaze me the people who complain about facing Russia at the end tier vehicles in ground mode are usually the ones who keep trying to fight them to Russian MBT strengths. Like, you successfully ground vehicles all the way up here, and you’re failing the fundamentals you should have learned ages ago?

[@JebblesJunior]

Those are great rules.

[@MachiavelliNZ]

Good message. I swing between the two extremes. Some matches I run a Mega-Sweat-OptiMax2000 build that I have carefully honed and fine-tuned in the psykanium while other matches I run an absolute meme build just for the laughs. It's good to chill sometimes and not make it another job. It's a game! Enjoy it!

[@Suomiwimbula]

I had a guy call me a person who prefers the intimate company of the same gender with below average mental faculties(he put it less tactfully) because I had block efficiency on my weapon while preparing for a run on heresy difficulty of all things and then promptly left the lobby. A good reminder what taking a game too seriously will do to you and a sensible chuckle every time I look at that +20% block efficiency.

[@BlackDragon007-y6z]

I once lost in a mission on heresy threat, and one player blames us for not being good enough when he was the second one to get downed, I think. He definitely wasn't the last one though.

[@tonyheraldo6525]

The tricky thing about horde shooters though, is that the last person to die tends to be the worst player because they panic and abandon the group

[@BlackDragon007-y6z]

​@tonyheraldo6525 then I really hope I wasn't the worst xD

[@Neil_Manta]

The order of getting downed is not a good metric for deciding how useful a player is. In many cases the last surviving player is the player that caused the wipe in the first place because they keep running away and give no support. This is especially the case for knife/dueling sword zealots, who tend to fuck off to nowhere, busy fighting a horde of shotgunners that is miles away, leave the entire team behind to die, and then gets killed last by the things that killed their teammate. In your case, if he is the only one in the backlines clearing hordes and specials while the other three players abandon him, then it's not his fault.

[@maccaebus]

Darktide is a game where your skill matters way more than loadout choices unless you're pretty much deliberately choosing dead talents and building in a way with negative synergy on purpose. I run high level missions, I'm looking forward to Havoc, and I did high level missions with the *Turtolsky Heavy Sword,* an objectively bad weapon for Zealot that I ran at the time because it was fast and had good sprint economy. I would far rather my teammates be playing a build they're comfortable with and understand than have them be playing a "better" build that they aren't used to and don't pilot well. This goes for most games these days, but players will find a way to optimize the fun out of anything.

[@m1garandMUSIC]

I would think the heavy sword is great for crowd control. Hits fast, crits easy and can utilize any talent/blessing combination no problem. By that I mean there’s no need to synergize it

[@maccaebus]

@@m1garandMUSIC Any weapon is usable if you like it and max it out. The issue is it has a very low base crit chance and not especially great crit modifiers, whereas the Catachan swords also exist and are significantly better for that build. It has good cleave and sprint economy, but if that isn't too important to you there are much better crowd control options like the Heavy Eviscerator or even the power baseball bat. The Heavy Sword simply isn't your best option in any real regard as Zealot, but I used it plenty because the combination of things it does well (speed, stamina, sprint economy, and good blessings) made it useful on my crit dodge Zealot build where I ran throwing knives for disablers and the holy boltgun for anything bigger. Ultimately I would switch to the tactical axe on that build due to its substantially better potential for crit builds, but the Turtolsky served me well enough.

[@BoyDugo02]

I just had this problem the other day. I was playing ogryn and one player flamed me for not picking the exploding grenade box for my blitz. He said that I lacked wave clear. I was like "I don't care. Rock kills baddies. Throwing rock is funny. So I like rock."

[@GrimUndead94]

I once had a +1500~ lvl zealot that saw me having a smite in a lobby and went "OH IM NOT PLAYING WITH SMIKERS, ENJOY HOLDING LEFT MOUSE BUTTON FOR THE ENTIRE GAME" and then left. I use smite for melee damage multiplier with electrify heavies on illisi. Guess big fat trauma staff with armor strip was not humongous enough to see where the priorities lie. *WHEEZE*

[@thunder2434]

A Psyker using smite saved me yesterday from a bunch of crushers. It's not bad at all as long as you use it right.

[@DYHero_]

3:03 - 3:12 I agree until they bring smokes, I don't want to watch them suffer that much

[@FemStolas9748]

What is it's for a penance tho? That's the only reason I did that tbh

[@rastanamag59]

@@FemStolas9748 are smokes even any good except fucking with shooters' line of sight or is that basically it?

[@FemStolas9748]

@rastanamag59 i mean, that's probably the most common use for them.

[@CasualSlayer]

​@rastanamag59 the issue with smokes is they blind your allies from firing on those enemies too so what happens is both sides just wait till they can see shit and the scenario has stayed mostly the same. I'm happy for anyone to play eith anything so long as it isn't actively HURTING the team

[@Neil_Manta]

@@rastanamag59 I also block sightlines of all the specials except bombers so they have to walk through the smoke to do anything to you. So flamers and trappers need to get close to attack you, and dogs cannot pounce until they are through the smoke

[@LinkiePup]

Another point of Space Marines 2: Assault is considered the least optimal class- but I LOVE him. He has big smashy hammer!!!!

[@Mare_Man]

Power Fist=Good class

[@borone1998]

I think its more important to optimize things you can control (i.e. Dodging, sound cues, Aim, Knowing when to push/back, sticking with team.) since no build can ever beat that.

[@scrapzee1402]

Thank you!!! Its so frustrating when some dude says my build is not "optimized" like bro i dont care if you play meta, i just dont, it keeps the game fresh

[@thatoneguy8146]

Gamers will literally optimise the fun out of everything and then complain the game isn’t fun anymore

[@UnknownUsername131]

I also enjoy the lack of self awareness from the people cussing out others because "Theyre shitty and ruined my co op game." Bro, you're just a different flavor of shit. Why would anyone care about your enjoyment?

[@unknownunknown3086]

an evolution to that which I've come to witness in these players is that they eventually become people that actively kick out other players out of matches simply because they aren't running meta loadouts, expecting every way possible for you to cater to their experience because they have more knowledge of the game than you.

[@sniddler9114]

Optimal, sub optimal, doesn't really matter. I've never had anyone complain about me sniping a mutant with a rock

[@megasgobot]

My bad experiences with this game are so few, that the biggest one I remember was when I was playing the veteran. I brought in the damage aura and this one zealot complained that I should have brought the ammo aura instead since it was the meta pick for the time and that I was a detriment to the team. They said this because they kept running out of flamer ammunition. I never had random teammates so quickly and immediately call their take bs and defend me before in any game until this one. Great community this game has. One of the main reasons why I continue to play it.

[@stapy7303]

In my experience there isn't really any bad choices for loadouts in darktide, there are things that mesh better together but overall you can do well with just about anything as long as its appropriately leveled for the difficulty and you know how to use your weapons/talents

[@smorg9693]

honestly valid criticism and one that can apply to more games than just darktide

[@mizranozahara968]

I got some of my friends into Darktide, and Darktide has felt like one of the first games to me in a long time I can say to my friends: "Everything is fairly good, use what feels good to you." and one of my buddies became one of the best damn Ogryn mains I've ever seen because I encouraged him to play how he feels most comfortable and he picked up a fuckin' Cleaver and never put it down.

[@davideghezzi2501]

It’s the typical iron hands behaviour, just pure mathematics 😂 good video btw

[@wizard_4194]

If you're playing only the basic missions, no auric or maelstrom, I don't give a fuck. Play with whatever you feel like. I start having problems once those same types of people go into an auric maelstrom mission and fuck over everyone by having a reddit tier build. At that point its legit just griefing.

[@JebblesJunior]

This is why I specify at that start that builds should still "work" In other words, have fun, but don't shoot yourself in the knee pre match.

[@SubOptimate]

The triple wound gunlugger is just the kind of surprise difficulty modifier that spices up an otherwise dull no ammo auric maelstrom mission. Big Man must be protected at _all costs._

[@voidyll5582]

To be completely honest, I don't even care what build you're running in auric maelstroms, I'll care more about how you play than your build. I've seen plenty of people with random off meta or meme builds perform better and care more than their own weight than a hard meta zealot. Just be aware of your own skill level, and if you know you can't comfortable play at a difficulty with a certain build, then either lower the difficulty or increase the potency of your build

[@Ogredrive]

I’ve honestly come full circle with Darktide. When trying to break up into the higher difficulties I would get mad and although not verbally rage at others that were less focused as me I would still carry that anger. After a while. Months. Years. And I can reliably play on the highest difficulties, I feel protective of people learning and fucking up. When I see a team mate that is a weak link it becomes my game to figure out and fill in their blanks. It’s a weird zen state that I haven’t been able to reach in another multiplayer game. Maybe minus Chivalry dueling, where you learn to size up another player in a few strokes and learn to teach them through defeat rather than crush them utterly.

[@tiarnanbrennan1623]

“If your with the people you want to be around, your doing what you want to do… and it’s working? Well my friend everyone else can go piss into the wind” has to be a life lesson in its self. I have to say I’m fresh to this game and to your channel but I will be on this game more and definitely sticking around to hear those hilarious, but most times so true, analogy’s.

[@voidyll5582]

It genuinely doesn't matter what build you use. You just need to be aware of your own skill level and determine if the build your running will be sufficient for you to play comfortably for the difficulty and modifiers of the mission you're going into. EX: if you can usually play very comfortably in auric maelstroms with a hard meta build, then playing something more off meta that you enjoy more is probably fine since you can still pull your own weight. But trying to bring a build that has minimal armor damage into a mostly melee maelstrom is actively harming your team for example. Just be aware of what your getting yourself into, and if you aren't certain you can comfortably contribute your own weight, then either increase the potency of your build, or lower the difficulty until you have the skill to play the build you want on the difficulty you want

[@Fermentos]

I agree, I really dont care what someone brings as long as they perform decently. However, when they actively bring a build which is 'meta' and cant even kill a single crusher with their pokey duelling sword, just stop playing. Especially if you are flashing your storm survivor

[@JebblesJunior]

I want to get to the point where I can support the absolute worst players like that and make them pull something off.

[@gadflyofhumanity_6847]

​@@JebblesJuniorHeh, good fragging luck with that pal. I used to have the same sentiments, but my shoulders were so sore that I just gave up and solo'd the rounds until I can revive the "meatsheilds" to give me a breather.

[@thunder2434]

It always confounds me when players like that have Auric storm survivor when they obviously lack player skills. Did they get 3 really good friends to carry them for 5 Auric Maelstroms just to have a fancy title? While some, even most other Auric storm survivors are absolute units that play like John Darktide.

[@TheSkelzore]

Palpatine psykers the kinda homies who just wanna have fun and help the squad

[@annoyingkraken]

That's a great title for the video dude. There's a game previously where I realized that I wasn't having fun anymore trying to finish the "perfect" run. I think it was Worms 3D? Or maybe it was Crazy Taxi. Both of those games had timed challenges. Or it could have been Synthetik... Most likely it must have been a journey over the years that led me to realize the same thing. Just play for fun! No more questions of "what's the best, what's the most"... bleh! I just play with what I feel like. Enjoy the game! Edit: The X-shaped psykik shield @8:30 was a neat idea. I've never placed them like that before! That was a cool technique.

[@Kuh415]

I got booted from a helldiver group that took themselves WAAY to seriously like this after 6 months of daily play. I hope to play with a healthier group soon. Subscribing because of this video.

[@merek5380]

Good movement mechanics and situational awareness are stronger than any build optimization. I can take a cleaver ogryn into auric and still dodge/slide/push my way through situations when the rest of the dueling sword shouty veterans knew how to follow a build but dont know how to kite a mob. If you dont know the core mechanics and you are the min/max type player then all you get is more efficient dps that will still fail hard when the going gets tough and mistakes are made.

[@GuyMan8383]

I think everybody actually has a limit on how suboptimal they can tolerate their teammates playing, different people just have different limits. Like nobody wants to play with the guy who always shoots poxbursters no matter how close they are, or the zealot who runs ahead and aggros everything and then dies. Obviously you always have the option to leave when you encounter someone who makes the game unfun for you but that doesn’t mean you can’t think of them as bad as well.

[@JebblesJunior]

Those are less meta and more player that can't handle what they got themselves into. If it's their first couple times doing it, I let it slide. If they're regularly showing up and dying with no intention of improvement, that's an issue.

[@anamericangrizzlybear8315]

My first ever experience on Darktide was a group of 3 tryhards kicking me from the game because I dared use a Medicae station that they thought i didn't deserve another one appeared 2 minutes later, and when I pointed out that there's another and now everyone can heal that made them mad and they kicked me (this was on the lowest difficulty in the game And when I tried to find a new game it kept dumping me in a game with them so I kept getting kicked Some mf's need to understand some people play video games for fun, I couldn't imagine people like that trying to influence gameplay design

[@Mare_Man]

Don't all medicae stations have a heal for everybody?

[@mstucky4305]

@@Mare_Mandepending on location and mission difficulty no but right before areas you will be at for a while ie bosses, data transfers, or the final act of the mission will have fully stocked medicae.

[@thunder2434]

​@@Mare_Man On lowest difficulty yes it has a full 4 heals. On high difficulty it often has less.

[@thunder2434]

If a team operates under the assumption a player has to "deserve" a heal they're playing the wrong game. Darktide isn't about ego or "deserving" anything, but all about the team doing their best when facing challenges together. If someone needs more heals than the rest go ahead. If someone needs carrying you do it. Whoever needs a heal should take it, even if that means double-dipping or even triple-dipping. If another medstation is near and it's just some silly principle then who cares, only morons kick a player for that. There are so many things a player can do to legitimately need kicking, like singing on the mike, being super toxic or blowing people off ledges, but taking meds when nedded isn't one of them. "Stealing" the last med hit to heal a sliver when a teamate has nearly no health left by mistake is annoying but somethig that happens. It's part of the game. If a player does that on purpose repeatedly it's griefing and may merit kicking but that's not what this story was about. The game is full of medpaks and stims. At lowest difficulty there's plenty for all. Also it's entry level for beginners, people should be allowed to make many mistakes there if their learning the game needs it. You don't kick somebody there at all unless they spam hate speech or verbally assault others over the mike.

[@GoldenCrusader-ji5oq]

bro a full squad of any class in the game would go hard

[@maiapetersen9092]

A squad full of 'siblings' is so much fun!

[@supershot9729]

Four vets can be pretty rough though lol

[@sadwings7638]

Warmed my heart hearing this. We just met and you won me over. Subscribed

[@zeder4015]

Compared to Vermintide 2 it is a lot harder to make friends in game. You don’t stay in your strike team by default, so most players just atomize after each mission. In Vermintide 2 you would play more rounds in a row with the same people and get to know you’re teammates better. Eventually adding them to your friends list, for future games. Also a qol feature like chat-auto block further enhanced communication, since a lot of people don’t use voice chat. In my humble opinion, most community based problems boil down to these mentioned issues. Darktide has a giant pre-lobby, with enough space for a more “emersive” party finder. Maybe even a hall of fame for modders after dropping official mod support. Sometimes taking 30 seconds to explain someone that he is doing something wrong makes this world a better place.

[@JebblesJunior]

A better party finder, or some kind of whisper system, would probably be a great help. Especially to the loads of new players that are coming in.

[@supasneaks]

I really appreciate this video. I don't care what loadout you have AND I don't care if you suck. I agree with you pretty much entirely. People should first think about what they can do THEMSELVES to solve a problem. Your team is struggling to complete the mission? Don't want to get paired with random people with random loadouts and a mix of skill? Find a team you like and play with them. Getting mad at others for not playing how you want to such a waste of time. What gets me the most is that people become so focused on builds and meta that they actually lose sight of, or forget, what is actually possible. They forget that this min-maxing and optimization is built on something that already works; else they wouldn't be able to "optimize". They focus on marginal improvements, the numbers that are visible, the stats, and forget about or disregard the MASSIVE amount of "data" that you can't put on a spreadsheet. This game isn't a DPS race. Your breakpoints mean nothing if you don't focus on target prioritization, awareness, and positioning.

[@albertwesker828]

You don't understand I need to theorycraft this PVE game to the most mathematically perfect point so I can spend the least amount of time per level

[@NoxMonstrum]

Honestly I feel like this extends to the devs to at some point because eventually people will bitch about difficulty to the point they're just asking devs to extend it to a level where it's borderline unplayable just for the personal accolade of "I can beat this and you can't" and not because it would help the game.

[@Heavynaut]

Screen Play Rant --- Though DT crafting had been an rng fest for so long I had a similar feeling regarding players not taking "optimized" stat rolls. Those extra couple percentages really arent going to make a difference in *most* cases even at the hardest content. Same goes for someone's build or weapon choice. Sure there are things that are the meta or things people consider objectively "bad". If you're playing quickplay or just with randoms in general come to expect that not everyone is so tight on using the best stuff or whatever. I genuinely enjoy quickplay for the chance of seeing a setup I was unfamiliar with and might like, a combination of weapons I didn't think of etc. Or different playstyles I didn't think would work. I think people do take their favourite content creators' as the holy word, "new opinion just dropped" type beat. I do however think there is a point to be made. What you use directly affects other players. A smite psyker is probably the biggest issue in the game right now, and showing it off to new players gives a skewed perspective of "what the game is really like" for lack of a better phrase. A competent smite psyker can essentially turn off the horde and the player-to-enemy interaction is tuned down to almost nothing even at higher difficulties. Smite is a specific issue that destroys the game balance not for a player's individual experience but the entire lobby to the point of being unfun. How am I supposed to test a new build concept in a live experience if I have to guess whether the smite psyker is going to turn all of the enemies off? To a lesser extent the plasma gun is capable of doing a similar thing by single handedly eliminating every significant threat with little investment. Its fine to use good things, meta things, even broken things. I can leave the lobby but I personally don't have an issue with people using this stuff. That doesn't mean they are not an issue in the game's balance. Heck, the dueling sword and knife are probably the best two melees in the game. Using them is an option but when everyone uses them, or even one really good player does, the game experience for the other players is significantly impacted though not nearly as bad as a smite psyker. It might be a pve game, but there are still up-to three other players' experiences to consider in the balance of the tools we can use. If people choose to use it I personally don't care in the long run, its fun to them. Smite is just one golden bad example right now, and I think you'll see that many bigger creators and communities around this game do care about this sort of stuff. I care more to complain that these "OP" tools should be rebalanced or reworked in some kind of way to keep them fun but not this significantly impactful on the combat gameplay experience for everyone in a lobby. As someone who has been in the community since beta and has over 1k hours I can say that a large amount of the long-term player base does care about minmaxing and that representation could change if DT gains a massive influx of new players (which I do hope it does). This is also an example where players care about game balance and player experience. Smite as that golden bad example has the ability to eliminate player interaction with the game for other players for a significant amount of a match and that doesn't feel good for everyone. Some argue it does ruin the fun, its so easy for the individual player to do, and often IMO doesn't even feel good to benefit from having in the team.

[@razor_of_doom1139]

Didn't read

[@Heavynaut]

@@razor_of_doom1139 my bad tl;dr play how you want for the fun isn't an issue no matter if you're using "meta' or "bad" things especially if it isn't actively harming other player's experience. Some things in the game do make other player's experience worse. Smite is a hot-button issue for the DT community and actively lessens other player's engagement in a run at all difficulties. It may be fun or cool in theme but it should probably be reworked, though any given run where its present I'm not sitting there complaining. There are other examples like the dueling sword, knife, and plasma gun that likewise I personally feel could benefit the health of the game by being reworked or rebalanced slightly but they're not as big of an issue (SM2 meltagun argument).

[@JebblesJunior]

I do agree that overwhelmingly strong tools should be readjusted to a degree. But I also have the not so guilty pleasure of playing passively and using them to keep others alive. So I'm seeing both sides of the coin here.

[@Heavynaut]

@ I feel that. It’s a pve game so if somethings is op that’s mostly fine. The power fantasy DT gives is pretty incredible. Definitely better balance of power and difficulty than SM2 has. Should be able to play that power fantasy

[@Suomiland]

Meta-builders are the sole reason for why I want a solo mode

[@elgringofeo9348]

This really takes the fun out of any game

[@richardbudge9416]

I don't know if my support zealot build works mathematically. But heavy evicserator goes VRRRRRRRRRRR

[@MarkSmith8357]

The final 5 minutes of the video was perfect. Most of what you said should be enshrined onto a gaming code that should be mandatory reading before starting their 1st game. All i can say is , well said. Don't ever change.

[@twistedgrin3510]

Just got you in my recommended and just gotta say I love how you put things. Subbed❤

[@BrY4N23]

Helldivers 2 is a perfect example of this video

[@codyconnor6981]

Meta is the whole reason why it took me till two years after Elden Ring’s release to actually use Moonveil and Rivers of Blood. Every time I see meta attached to something I refuse to use it, because I want to use what is fun.

[@elseggs6504]

I used the Knights armour and Knights Greatsword throughout the game and only around Leyndell started to go for Faith. Was it a build guide? Fuck no, it was a seal that buffed what turned out to be Lightning spells. Lightning spells are cool as fuck. Simple as that. I paired it with fire too for good measure. I beat the Crucible Knight in that Evergaol by only using Parries. Was it optimal damage? Fuck no. Was it fun to download his moveset? Yes. In other words: FromSoft Minmaxers can suck my ween

[@johnboe3073]

I agree with you but just wait for when Havoc drops, they're gonna min-max optimization. It's going to be three Zealots and a CD Totem Psyker

[@bweach7393]

"Dont hate on the guy using the gas can" oh man what a metaphor... a literal metaphor

[@nosurvivors100]

I've only ever really met these kinds of people when I went out of my way to find a discord of darktide tryhards to go through tougher content with(which is rlly the only time youll run into these kinds of people for any game rlly, nobody gets min max angry at your builds in randos) And bottom line is this, they're annoying but their info very helpful. I chose to find these ppl in the games i play they rarely ever find me, which is mostly the case for many i'm sure.

[@JebblesJunior]

I saw a weird uptick in aggression when I was playing earlier today. It was primarily people being upset with the wave of newcomers from PlayStations pre-order access it seemed.

[@jafsrob]

*Very minor gripe* Smite psyker are disliked by *mostly* zealot players, and its because of how many "on dodge" effects zealot has access to. Smited enemies cannot proc those effects, because they do not attack, thus disabling potentially 4 really good talents and 2 really good blessings the zealot player is using. These effects add up to 20% crit chance, a sources of +50% and a source of +60% finesse damage, 15% damage resistance, some spread and recoil improvements, and 15% toughness replenished per dodge Thats a lot of really good stuff that smite psyker kinda just *disables* for large chunks of time, which can be frustrating more than it is helpful.

[@JebblesJunior]

There's also opportunity to direct perks into smite as well, it can go both ways.

[@jafsrob]

@@JebblesJunior And your not wrong. But if you queue into a match as psyker, and ur playing with 3 zealots, its probably wise to not pick smite.

[@majorandras7474]

Yes, and no duelist proc and a psycher who does half the damage their teammates while making enemies stationary pinatas the match became 30% longer and way less fun

[@anotherfriendlyshikikan6960]

The only time anyone should care about teammates’ loadouts are either playing in a party (aka having friends) or when someone brings

[@rheytalion70]

Yeah, but if i get a dime when some PoS join golden auric storm mission, do absolutely nothing and any criticism is meeting: "i play what i want" i would have two dimes, but its not funny it happens twice.

[@JebblesJunior]

That's kinda how the reality of gaming with randoms has always been, but I do dislike pocket change.

[@WhamyKaBlamy]

I'd say I'm a wee bit of a game historian, considering I've been actively gaming for like 35 years at this point. The meta thing came about with MMOs and CS to be honest, from what I saw. Back in the days of Ultima Online even there was the meta. There were also those that were willing to abuse the system to make sure that they were in the perfect meta. For example, there were some very early paid for macro programs that allowed you to do the 8x8 method. What this meant was that you found somewhere that you could travel one of the games cardinal directions freely. You'd travel along and do your skill 1 block at a time until you got a skill gain. When you got that, you traveled 8 blocks in the direction you were going. Sometimes you'd hit this sweet spot where you'd suddenly get this huge run of gains because of the way you were moving and the way the system generated those gains. The program allowed you to do that automatically. That was in the late 90s. You also had the start of what you currently see in most FPS games, and even MOBAs to some degree, with the way people were strategizing their picks between rounds. That's the earliest I can remember the meta being a thing.

[@RPGandFPS]

5:02 huge issue with this argument is its a 4 player team game. Not a solo game. You directly impact your team by failing.

[@apfelfreund6859]

If your team is failing because one didn't followed ThE mEtA it was not a good team anyway

[@RPGandFPS]

@@apfelfreund6859 nothing about the “meta”. Thats just a terrible mindset in a team based game.

[@JebblesJunior]

Throwing intentionally is bad, that's unquestionable. If you tried, enjoyed your time playing, and then failed, that's just the way she goes.

[@RPGandFPS]

@@JebblesJuniorIf you’re failing because someone gave you informed advice and you chose not to listen or even consider it that almost as bad as throwing. It’s like if a boxer said getting punched in the head hurts and your reply was “Nah I gotta figure it out for myself”.

[@oscarglad5284]

@@RPGandFPS not even remotely comparable, boxing has very real, dangerous consequences if you lose, in-game you can get your ass kicked and still have some fun doing it

[@maiapetersen9092]

"It isnt meta!!!" Counterpoint: when i use the weapon the little bar goes from left to right until it hits 20 at the end.

[@djayt1215]

Another youtuber said it best. This is a game that can be solo'd. If you get captured or die, thats no one faults but your own. Learn to dodge, block, and use your gear. Dont blame your team

[@davedaghost8636]

Every time when someone asks what is good to use, I usually say "use what ever you want I could give less of a shit what you use as long you have fun" or something like that and I dont see the point of meta building everything anymore

[@wickerg041]

Basically, do what works for you. Have fun.

[@ramonerichardson]

the only reason i decided to start playing darktide is because the boltgun looked fun to use and i may be a bit of a rookie when i start out because im only just getting used to it. the only thing that matters for me is enjoyment. and thats all you need to get me interested... that and also because i really love warhammer 40k

[@echosierra9990]

I’ve already seen posts where players say if class X is not playing with weapons Y and Z, they’ll drop out of the lobby or match.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

2:50 again no one is doing this and i think this is just a flat out bad take that has the terrible foundation it seems of YOU not getting darktides balance or what it takes to perform well in the game my friend.........

[@JebblesJunior]

You're free to be wrong all you'd like. It didn't even take past the first 20 hours of playtime to see teammates trying to rip each other's heads off over this nonsense. With the introduction of PlayStation newcomers, I've seen instances increase.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

@JebblesJunior and I think you failed the see what I was getting at that the only times people complain is when people are playing poorly and not actually accounting for their resources...... It's not about the build it's about the skill of the player because the build really doesn't mean Jack shit... Literally I and many other players know for a fact that you can do heresy and even damnation with grey weapons that are only partially rolled well and at least a basic build......... Basically the only people who get yelled at are the people who are playing in difficulties far above their actual skill level and thus are just being dead weight to their team and essentially causing everyone they play with to lose the game purely because they refused to play in the difficulty level that actually suits their skill or rather lack thereof dumbass

[@Jet-lx8uh]

I agree with this, i feel like the idea of perusing a meta and expecting it of others stifles creativity, and with specifically the tide games, the meta seems to encourage a lot of solo play that ends up souring the rest of the teams experience by essentially throwing them all under the bus in exchange for exploiting the enemy agro. the most fun ive had has been with the folks that just do whats enjoyable despite the meta because they actually work together and as a result make an overall smoother game.

[@SCPDOGE_]

I pay for game. I play how I want. I have fun.

[@TheDoggyDog]

I’m fine with people optimizing their gameplay as long as they don’t force it on others. If you’re upset with someone who isn’t running the “meta”, you shut up and keep it to yourself, then form your own team that will conform to it.

[@jollyroger195]

This is why I just screw around in tier three missions. It is the perfect mix of fun and challenge for me. Get to live the dream as an Ogryn that lives only to bonk heretics with a rusty metal pipe.

[@Akrilloth]

*Grabs popcorn* Oh boy. Personally i don't mind smiters, as the main reason i play this game is that I'm a massive 40k fan, and to watch heretics blow up when i hit them hard or shoot them with my gun. Without the violence the game wouldn't really be as worth it. But then again, i only occasionally play Auric Maelstorms, as even Damnation Shock Troop Gauntlet makes my head hurt from all the spawn sounds, especially the mutants. Really, would love it if i could just play normal High intensity Heresy and Damnation at my leisure, i love hordes of elites, as opposed to specialists and disablers.

[@Mad_Dog_of_the_Regime]

1:40 For some of us this kind of math IS the fun. Some are being overly toxic about it and bother others, but there's nothing stopping you to ignore them, it's fine.

[@JebblesJunior]

By all means, min/max to your hearts content. Just don't bring the hammer down on people if they don't want to.

[@Mad_Dog_of_the_Regime]

@@JebblesJunior Based.

[@mcsmash4905]

its just funny at this point the sheer speed at which ˝how do be X in stalker 2˝ videos appeared on youtube after it released , like damn

[@natesadly135]

Most of the rage quits are for auric survivor bc if they leave it doesn't affect their progress

[@jdakiller1017]

I didn't even know people hated the lightning builds Im ngl lmao, me and my buddy got back into the game recently and Ive been loving being the crowd control guy using smite and an inferno staff/force sword. And it's actually saved our asses many times too once I really got the hang of my loadout lol

[@mu7es]

The same people who only run meta complain the games boring, has no challenge, or doesn't have enough content. I remember when helldivers 2 launched and people were level 100 with a maxed out ship by week 3 and were complaining

[@Vincent_A.]

6:53 Great pun here if you’ve played TF2. Context: The PvE mode for Team Fortress 2 has a weapon upgrade for a throwable gas can. It’s pretty busted, and makes the waves much easier. Some unwashed gremlins were so mad at this that they flooded the servers with bots that would votekick people with it equipped. This was a few years ago, and they have since died out.

[@gablemakesshid]

further explanation: it is a weapon called the "gas passer", upon throwing will create an aoe that cover enemies in gas that ignite on damage, in mvm theres an upgrade that replace the ignition with an explosion that does 500 dmg,aka killing anything thats not a giant.However thats not the main issue.The gas passer works very different from other throwable as it can be recharged via damage , the explosion damage counts toward the recharge. The upgrade also only cost 500 credits

[@c10udy111]

that closing statement was funny asf ngl.

[@blunot6941]

Left 4 Dead 2 has been suffering the same problem, especially in versus. Sometimes it’s almost unplayable because the entire human team is using sniper rifles and the zombies can’t be exposed to them for more than half a second without dying. Matches get finished in minutes because people use speedrun tech to fly through levels incredibly fast. People are super defensive and elitist about it too and kick you for disagreeing, it really is sad

[@jambalolk]

Even on heresy i have people leave as they see me using smite. I like zapping things so i'll keep doing it.

[@SyLuX636]

Auric missions with randoms can be either amazing or stressful. Its huge the amount of times ive seen people who dont know how to dodge. Then theres a Random Ogryn who can dodge everything like a god lol. When you get a team where there all in sync it feels amazing. Has long you stay together and prioritize Special enemies every game is fine.

[@stayawayfromthoseoranges]

What a way with words you have. Thank you Sah

[@TheeChalk]

Look, I don't have a problem with people using what they want. But If people are loading in to Auric Damnation and Auric Maelstrom with bad gear and they are performing bad it's extremely frustrating because it really does make the difference. It's the endgame missions, and just like with harder raids from WoW you are expected to hold your weight in these difficulties because it's not fair for everyone else if you perform bad. I had a Dude who loaded in with a Bolt pistol, chain axe, smokes, and was just running a suboptimal build. He downed 9 times and kept dying, and after left the game on the last stretch, therefore making it a much harder experience for me and the other 2 guys. And Fatshark really needs to work on half the stuff on this game because it's crazy how poor some weapons, talents, and abilities are. Like some things are genuinely useless. If you want to play for fun, go for it. But don't load in the Auric stuff with bad gear and perform bad man, especially when everyone else has gone through the effort to get a good build together and perform well.

[@JebblesJunior]

This is why in team games I add "and it works" whenever I say do whatever as long as you have fun

[@TheeChalk]

@@JebblesJunior As long as it works it's fine. But without a scoreboard in the base game it's hard for people to dictate their performance, which is why Fatshark really needs to add one to the base game.

[@Ebb0Productions]

There's nothing wrong with the chain axe and bolt pistol. They're both high tier weapons. Sounds like the person had a skill issue. Maybe it was his first time trying Auric. You don't know how hard it is until you try.

[@jonnygadfly]

I'd 'like' this video a hundred times if I could.

[@keldon_champion]

I don't have a problem with min/maxing and I understand that for some people that is fun and have been know to do it myself in more than a few games. What I have a problem with is imposing your criteria for "right" on others. I have never tried to make anyone play the way I think is "right" with the exception of high level premade stuff (such as raiding in MMOs) and that only because its kind of needed. In games like darktide, helldivers, or monster hunter I don't care what other players want to do as long as we are having fun.

[@47RoninGaming]

In auric damnation hi-intensity, waves of specialists, muties. 3 people dead, one of the dead ones says "your build sucks your gonna die" i revived everyone but him the rest of the run. Dum dum spent more than half the run on his knees but my build sucks.

[@amalekedomite]

People feel the need to min/max in games like this because the core gameplay loop is more grind than fun.

[@prophetmuhammad2274]

Im not a math gremlin and am greatful truly for those who do as a filthy casual peasants and also single father it's refreshing that someone does it for you. I take a look at the builds and tweak for taste but you can't deny that with a broken perk tree and some nodes being detrimental rather than useful it is a beneficial resource

[@JebblesJunior]

My point was not that doing the math is bad. I'm just saying don't shout down others trying to do their own thing.

[@heftyjo2893]

Yea, it's about the synergy of different builds that help deal with multiple contingencies. If you have a team of zealots all using rapiers and throwing knives, they tend to get steamrolled by an ambush because they have no crowd control. Or, a group of psykers all trying to smite and they get smasha by a group of crushers and maulers because they have no single target. Or a group of Ogryns that get sniped to pieces because they are crayon eaters that can't aim further than 5 meters. Of course, that'll change here soon with the new Ogryn gun. Or a group of shout veterans that...well actually they probably can deal with anything because it's way to OP; but you get the point.

[@OniGanon]

Eh... I agree with the general sentiment, but if you want to do the crowd control thing full time you really should just use a Voidstrike/blast staff so you can also kill things at the same time. You can still take lightning for if SHTF.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

My gripe with some of the turbo nerds going off on optimization on this game is that they overplay how big most of the stats are. The tolerance for different builds in this game is pretty wide. Good gameplay is far more valuable than running a meta build and playing poorly (not sticking close to team, panicing in the horde, not using abilities and grenades properly, not prioritizing trappers, etc). They talk like its Path of Exile or some super complex ARPG, where stats drive everything. Darktide isn't that type of game. Now I will say I do get it. The game doesn't explain many aspects and interactions well. Optimized builds are far more necessary if you're really pushing far into the difficulties, but even then there are videos online of people doing auric max difficulty missions with grey weapons, SOLO. If that doesn't prove the game is skill based idk what does. I think its fair to say its a team based game, play how you want, but pick the difficulty that suites that mood and style. If you're just going to die immediately maybe play malice or below for that "fun" build.

[@ironhalocorp]

For years when gaming was a habit or addiction for me, I had to min-max to wring out whatever fun I could. After a break and a huge life change I approach the game w/ no cares other than to have fun. Deliberately use horrible weapons just because they look cool and laugh when people once like me huffpuff about it. Take it easy!

[@coffee0093]

I feel like humans are naturally programmed to optimize things they do, and we all like winning. Metas are inevitable (sadly). That being said, after playing some goofy ass builds in Damnation and winning fine, I think game sense is WAY more important in Darktide than your build. If someone is crying about your build, they're projecting xD PvE games are meant to be chill