STOP Overslowing Into Corners

[@MrApplebumPS]

I find many times that just downshifting and engine braking will slow me enough to get me through a curve without even touching the brakes. Of course this does depend of your entry speed and the severity of the curve. I agree with going light on the brakes at first when needed. I also like to assess the corner long before entering and keep my eyes roughly 2/3 in the visible portion of the curve and use my peripheral vision to view the near and far. Peripheral vision is a very helpful tool when riding and over looked by most riders. The best riders move their eyes around very little and make peripheral vision their friend. Thanks for the video.

[@motogymkhana_minsk]

Hi Dave! When I teach my students Trail Breaking, I spend 40 minutes explaining to them about 4 ways to take turns. And one of them is opening the throttle at the beginning of the turn, this leads to a simultaneous increase in the angle of the bike and an increase in pressure on the rear wheel. And also, to the highest chance of getting on KZbin with a lowside. Already in practice Trail Breaking, many brake too much with the front brake. I make a remark to them - you see, you don't have enough speed even to finish the turn from the cones on residual inertia... And then they try to slow down less, then they begin to enter and exit the turn smoother and more harmoniously. Your KZbin channel is at the top of my list! You are the best! I will definitely find an opportunity to shake your hand if I can move to the USA. Good luck!

[@storminben]

There is a huge difference between applying a maintenance throttle to properly balance the bike, as opposed to opening the throttle hard enough to spin the rear.

[@NoName-c4y7h]

What? The rear wheel is not steering the bike, so why would you lighten the traction to the front wheel?

[@storminben]

@@NoName-c4y7h the front wheel is responsible for CHANGING the lean angle of the bike. Once you are leant over in the corner the front is merely suspending. That's why you can wheelie on the exit of a corner with the bike still leant over.

[@CanyonChasers]

Oh my gosh! You totally had me, right up until the "getting on KZbin" bit. LOVE IT!

[@CanyonChasers]

​@@storminben Unfortunately, that is not correct. Motorcycles are designed and engineered by expert riders and racers. The front wheel makes the motorcycle slow down and turn. Rake/trail, fork compression, steering head angle are all specifically designed to do this in conjunction with gyroscopic procession. The throttle makes the bike stand up and go straight. Countersteering initiates lean by pushing the tires out from underneath the bike, but then the front wheel MUST steer traditionally in order for the motorcycle to actually change direction. I have an entire video detailing all of this, where I interviewed scientists studying the physics, and quote dozens of scientific papers and books detialing all of this. But we steer with the front tire. Not the rear. Wheeling out of a corner... the bike is not turning, it's standing up and going straight. If you are interested in learning more check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGmtdpqhgLKlmdUsi=beLWfSiHbITY9YLR

[@surdzo]

It really depends not only the skill of the rider but road conditions (some countries have really good, clean and well maintained roads and signalization, and others simply don’t) Also you have to have in your mind that is not the same riding 30k Ducati or BMW GS (always with new set of expensive tires) like riding 5-10k bike with worn and cheap tires. The only way to learn and build your skills it’s riding (practice) like anything else in life. Cheers 🍻(don’t dirink and ride 😅)

[@elgringoec]

Nice video. Actually, I don't understand "trail braking", and no, I'm not trying to use it at all. I rarely use the brakes when carving. I've been at it so long that I just know how to make a rhythm of it.

[@elgringoec]

@mildyproductive9726 I learned to ride a long time ago. We didn't have all this information bombarding us with different people's ideas of how we should do things. I had no instructor, not even a family member to show me the ropes. I just went out and rode, had fun, and got a little crazy. That part hasn't changed 😂 but I learned from every wipeout, every flip, every mud bog, every dousing in creeks and ponds... Now you got guys telling you right and wrong. And some people who eat that stuff up. I'm teaching my grandkids. I start around a year old by riding them around in front of me and getting them started on bicycles at two to three. When they can ride bicycles well on rough terrain and are big enough to hold up the PW50, I turn them loose on that. Now we also have a PW80, a TTR90, and a TTR125. Some are naturally more adept than others. I have one standout who just turned seven and I moved him up to the 80. He can hold the bike only on one side at a time it's so tall for him. But that kid rips! You don't have to tell him about the apex of a curve or any little details like that, he just kills it. He follows me and leads me on woods trails, through sinuous curves from wide to tight, bumps, dips, over logs, sharp curves at the bottom of pretty challenging hill climbs, even down the hill and make the sharp turn at the bottom. All this reinforces my lifelong observations that some people are just more cut out for it than others. It's not like I don't give him pointers, I do, for all the kids individually. This is just next level for whom he doesn't need much explained and needn't waste moments thinking about things that just happen naturally, like his rhythm and flow. It is really entertaining and rewarding to be part of.

[@aressimbamt0959]

If you trying to best lap on track ther will be a point to late brakes and trailbraking

[@elgringoec]

@aressimbamt0959 Okay... It wouldn't be "late" braking, then, eh? That's "just in time" braking! And "trail braking"? I've heard five people describe it five different ways. Just ride the bike, shoot for smooth.

[@ProphetAndLoss]

Those roads look fantastic! What a place to corner.

[@martinenn]

was looking at the asphalt and thinking, dude, these are laboratory conditions :D

[@CanyonChasers]

Since the video relied heavily on "go to a familiar corner" I specifically chose perfect asphalt roads that were just repaved. But we can all agree, perfect asphalt is what we all wish for!

[@RG-500]

Great video! Top notch content, very well produced. Thanks for posting this. Also well done on mentioning your credentials. There is so much misinformation out there and it helps to know why folks should listen to you.

[@soujrnr]

Hi Dave. This is OUTSTANDING! First and foremost, I'm so glad that you shared your level of skill, your certifications, your experience, and such, because for so long, you've been so humble that people may have thought you're just another guy with a KZbin channel talking about riding. You aren't being proud by sharing your education, experience, and accomplishments because they are necessary for people to realize just how fantastic of a resource you really are!! You are the quintessential go-to guy for all things riding. I KNOW that I over-slow in corners. I don't always do it, but when I do, I'm very cognizant of it and start asking why. As with all "why" questions in motorcycling, I find that "it depends." Sometimes it's fear. Other times it's unfamiliarity. Every other reason fits under one of those two headings, and sometimes under both. In all fairness, I've never ridden off the road because of entering a curve too fast. LOL I guess there is comfort in that. I also ride two-up with my wife, and so I refuse to do anything that would jeopardize her health and safety. All that being said, I DO want to improve, and I DO want to face those fears head-on and defeat them. It's a journey; not a destination. So, I keep coming back to your videos over and over again, and I KNOW they are making me a better rider. Thank you so very, very much for sharing your knowledge and experience!! It really is making a difference in my life, and for that, I am forever grateful to you, sir! On a side note, the scenery shots are gorgeous! I had a photography business years ago, and landscape photography was (still is) one of my very favorite things!

[@CanyonChasers]

Thank you! That means a lot! And thank you for being a channel member!!

[@johnsaporta4633]

@@soujrnr agree. He is more than just another guy with a motorcycle and an opinion.

[@waltershim55]

Of all the videos on corner speed on KZbin, yours always makes more sense and helped me greatly to improve mine.

[@CanyonChasers]

That’s awesome! Thanks for watching.

[@Ron-kn1fg]

Thank you for your awesome videos. I am a returning rider after 35 years. Detailed and clear concepts for safer riding. I have learned so much from your channel. Riding has become more fun than it used to be. Understanding why things happen and how to control them is amazing. Thank you.

[@CanyonChasers]

Thats the ultimate goal, right? To make the whole experience more fun!

[@deauvilledad07]

Every day is a school day on your videos Dave. So many words of wisdom. Stay safe and ride well. 🤓 🏍️

[@CanyonChasers]

I appreciate that!

[@je4444]

Simple but very helpful. For me I believe it is engine braking as many a turn I hardly need to use the brakes. Will be trying a higher [or 2] gear this morning. Thanks for this great content.

[@storminben]

There is a REALLY simple way to prevent engine braking from slowing you down too much in the corner. Get off the bloody front brake and roll the throttle on! It doesn't have to be massive acceleration, just enough to maintain your speed. You will also notice the bike suddenly feels much more planted and deals with mid corner bumps SOOO much better.

[@WJRobbins125]

Thanks Dave! I've been working on these things for a while now. Probably the thing that makes the biggest difference for me was learning how to use my peripheral vision to keep my eyes up, lowering that sense of "I'm going too fast!"

[@CanyonChasers]

Seriously, peripheral vision is such an important part of vision that is overlooked. I plan to talk about it specifically in an upcoming video I'm working on!

[@WJRobbins125]

@@CanyonChasers Cool! I'm looking forward to your perspective. It's not an easy thing to trust. 😎

[@Maxime_L91]

This season ive been practicing my vision more than anything. Vision smoothly and precisely gliding through the corner (or anywhere) equals smooth riding. Smooth continuity and a higher precision of where i wanna position myself on my lane will be my goals for a while.

[@CanyonChasers]

Vision is key! I'm was hoping to get a lane position video done before the snows came, but I still hope its one of my next videos.

[@vicmorrison8128]

Thanks to you and many other coaches, I'm still alive! That goes for countless others, too! That's a pretty cool thing to put on one's resume! ❤

[@mitchrichardson744]

Get out of my head Dave! Last two track days I was thinking... How do I stop over slowing in the corners?

[@CanyonChasers]

Haha! I love it!

[@tomquaker]

go the balls and go for it man 😂

[@erikjansen8597]

Thank you. I actually have been doing your second suggestion of hitting the corner in a higher gear. You just validated that for me, so now I know I am on the right track. Those corners have been smoother too. I am now going to apply your braking suggestion. Thanks again!

[@CanyonChasers]

Nice! We do that and the end of Champ School - called "Champ Laps" where we throw challenges at riders to emphasize the importance of being adaptable. Riding the track a gear (or two) higher than normal almost always turns on light-bulbs because of how much smoother (and quicker) riders tend to be.

[@jamesmcguire9155]

Been watching yer vids and rec yer channel to other riders for better part of a decade - thanks brother - Champ school online was a game changer. U r a great rider and wrencher. Appreciate all your riding and wrenching tips. Greaseninja!

[@CanyonChasers]

Thanks, that means a lot. 🙏

[@wadeblake3451]

Enjoyed the video and yes, I am guilty of downshifting for the exit prior to entering the cornering. Downshifting while leaving the corner vs entering it makes sense. Thanks

[@Kubek860221]

I didn't understand how I can go faster to the corner with going 2 gears higher. Especially when I got old Ducati where it will shake and want to die 2 gears higher than "normal". But the video topic is spot on! 90% of my corners are too slow, I often don't need to use a brakes to a corner, engine braking is sufficient. Or maybe I'm just a poor rider. Cheers!

[@rolandschleicher7458]

I just went out and used this information, it really helped. Thank you Dave.

[@davidruggles996]

This was a perfect video Dave. I remember going through the over-slowing plateau and while I managed to figure it out, having a good coach articulately explain it like this would have been priceless. Great work! ❤

[@philipparana9225]

Sometimes i set my cruise control for a reasonable speed and force myself to make the turn without braking to work on my vision and lean.

[@kokkiematematika1931]

I rarely scan 'back'. Unless I do it without awareness. I am only aware of continuously looking ahead 'through the corner.. 🤔🤔🤔

[@IvorMarshall]

Superb video Dave.... First class instruction and sage advice as always.... stunning cinematography....

[@CanyonChasers]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Gunner40Five]

Great job! I love that road, and yes the fresh pavement is a big improvement from a few years ago. Keep up the good work.

[@Ramon51650]

Mr. Chaser - thanks so much for this video. I'm working on fast eyes, but I think I also need to become more confident with what rubber does at lean. I'm going to follow your suggestion of kicking it up a gear or two when riding sweepers. Thanks!

[@CanyonChasers]

I'm working on a video about getting comfortable at lean, the answer is going to surprise you. :)

[@Ramon51650]

@@CanyonChasers !!YAY!! I'm looking forward to it, especially since I'll be picking up a new bike today.

[@6arethevan5]

Perfect timing!! I'm on a track day in a few days time, and slowing down too much for corners has been bugging me for a while now. Informative and enjoyable as always, thanks for sharing 🙂🏍️💪🏻👍🏻

[@DH-co7sh]

Hey Dave, there is one statement that I disagree with you about and that is, “Going to your brakes when you’re nervous”. I go to my brakes when I “need” to. Sometimes I may be nervous but more often than not, I utilize my brakes when I need to. Food for thought. This is something that I think YCRS should change as well.

[@CanyonChasers]

Not sure I understand. How do you know when you need to? The other thing is new riders are taught to avoid the front brake or never brake, so they avoid it until they are on the verge of panic, which results in aburpt braking. When I talk to professional racers, they wait to go the brakes until they get nervous. So it's a simple phrase that seems to work on two levels.

[@jairocantillo5678]

Thanks for such a great video. Sometimes, I have been in this situation without an answer for this overly slow approach, but I believe this is part of the answer!! Thanks again. I will share my experience after putting in practice it.

[@CanyonChasers]

Please do!

[@johnsaporta4633]

Best cinematography. I especially like how the point of view shifts in sync with a few key points of narrative.

[@CanyonChasers]

Thank you!

[@RanjanSkyline]

Wow, such a simple thing. I guess its the basics that make all the difference. Thanks for this!

[@amisfitpuivk]

You got it right with the engine braking. I end up slowing too much because of it trying to maintain powerband for exit, and when trying to get used to more lean angle with speed, with better trailbraking, it’s too much at once

[@greyanaroth]

Great. As always. Thanks man

[@vijayam1]

Sunlight, pleasant music and tips like these.. Brilliant..

[@CrissaKentavr]

This video is something I'm working on. With my bike, I usually have regen all-on when I hit the brake. But to do good trailbraking, I want to change modes to hit less regen and so I can do that! Doesn't really help when I forget to change modes before hitting hite corner. Can't shift that faster, like you can with a clutch.

[@mmac3326]

My riding suffers due to my lack of cornering confidence and "fear" of leaning the bike. I know the bike will do it but my brain says nope....so frustrating!

[@countryjoe3551]

I suggest that you sign up for the Yamaha Champions Riding School ChampU online course. I have been riding motorcycles for over 50 years and still found massive value in completing the course and now currently going through it again.

[@mmac3326]

@@countryjoe3551 thanks very much I will be sure to have a look at that! Presumably it doesn't matter which country you are in?

[@CanyonChasers]

Champ U is great and highly recommended. I even have a coupond code for you if you sign up; FOCUS. I'd also suggest checking out our tire confidence video. I'm working on a video specifically for "fear or leaning" - but the big point is, we SHOULD be afraid of leaning. Yes, the motorcycle must lean to tearn, But... Lean equals risk. All of the techniques I advocate for are actually geared around ways to reduce lean, reduce risk, etc.

[@storminben]

​@@CanyonChasers do they involve getting off the bike and walking it round the corner? Because that's where this seems to be heading. I can't argue though, it is definitely less risk!

[@Grahamvfr]

Great content thank you. 6 min 11sec "it depends" , so true, and yet its thought as a cop out answer, but thats only because some riders want an answer that doesn't require a bit of thought on their part. Good riding needs a lot work of work physically (practice) and mentally.

[@CanyonChasers]

Right! There are very few hard and fast, absolute answers in motorcycling.

[@DanielG34]

Hi Dave, great video as always. I have a cornering question and not sure where to ask it. There is one corner in my town which always messes with me. It's a 90degree right hand stop sign from an uphill grade onto a main road. The corner turns on to a further uphill grade. 50 above the turn, it's blind given the crest of the hill. Below the turn are multiple left and right hand entry points with vehicles entering the main road. You need to put some throttle in to keep momentum up the hill and to merge into the flow of traffic. I've come close to running wide multiple times as i'm worried about too much countersteer while adding throttle from a stop while accelerating up the hill. Is it just a matter of practicing it 100x in a neighborhood loop, or do you have some advice on an uphill right hander?

[@CanyonChasers]

Yep. Assuming its a first gear corner, we have one just like that. In this case a lot of clutch slippage can balance the speed, keeping us from running wide while also needing to be on throttle.

[@bramweinreder2346]

This hurts 😂 just made my bike winter ready. From the perspective of having a single cylinder air cooled bike, I actually do rely on engine braking a lot (first year of being a biker). My bike is considered an easy cruiser. That said, I think that the right gear inside a bend is the one that gives adequate throttle response. You don't want too much torque in a bend (high revs) or you'll risk sliding out. You don't want too low rpm or you'll bike have a harder time recovering from a bad patch in the road. And when you reach the exit, it's throttle wide open and go. At least that's how it feels to me.

[@BoxShifterGaming]

awesome informative video, thanks man. always trying to get better at riding

[@CanyonChasers]

Thank you and me too!

[@Racha0900]

So helpful and true.

[@baileylugnut]

I'll be the first to admit, riding a fairly steep downhill into a right hander, produced a whole lot of anxiety... too fast, go wide, head on crash ahead. The combo techniques that I've learned on this channel to overcome this fear were...(1) downshift, but not too low ..(2) begin Trail braking...(3) Ride closer to the centerline as I approached a right-hand turn... (4) get my head turned and look right before entering the turn...(5) Be patient and let the corner come to me. Stay committed to the curve (some can be very tight sweepers) until I see the exit. As I straighten the bike up, only then will I begin to accelerate. It also helps that I went from a 650 lb. Yamaha FJR1300 to a 330 lb. KTM 200 Duke! It is OMG fun! I just laugh through any corner now.

[@CanyonChasers]

I love it. Riding should be about finding the joy in the moment. Right?!?

[@SamGarcia837]

Great video. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and experience. This is one of my issues with the engine braking. I tried your advice with going into the corner in a higher gear, and that has helped me tremendously. Again, thank you for answering your emails and your great advice. Btw what is that windscreen you are using. I'm getting too much wind noise.

[@CanyonChasers]

Its just the stock Pikes Peak windcreen. My firm believe is that big windscreens are terrible for wind noise and buffeting. I'm always putting on the smallest screen I can find, to great results.

[@SamGarcia837]

@@CanyonChasers thank you. I'm starting to believe the same thing.

[@creedm3040]

Awesome video! You sure live in a beautiful part of the country! Best!

[@donmiller3941]

I have been a strong advocate of the " Canyon Chasers " channel for a long time. I appreciate these informative videos immensely. One question from me regarding this upload, is the difference in back pressure braking for different engine configurations. Surely this is a major component of integrating engine braking & manual braking optimally in differing conditions etc. If anybody says a silky right wrist, I'll vomit.

[@CanyonChasers]

For sure. Typically, bikes with lots of torque will have lots of engine braking. But also, bikes with lots of torque will be able to accelerate out of most any corner in most any gear.

[@RealMuroc]

Great video. Never thought of staying in a higher gear into the corner. Brilliant, will give it a try. Fantastic camera work and editing. What roads are those and what drone do you use? Really magnificent.

[@CanyonChasers]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Anderzander]

I’ve been waiting for this 😊

[@supermonkiey]

Appreciate this video! You're the best, really!

[@CanyonChasers]

I really appreciate you taking the time to watch!

[@SpringfieldFatts]

These new popup adds for merch are a blight.

[@jingshelpmaboab]

A light went on in my head when you spoke about engine braking due to changing into too low a gear before corner entry... guilty, in spite of reading something years ago that said engine braking is in effect no different to using the rear brake, which I have yet to see recommended as the way to slow down before a corner.

[@MrAsyter]

fantastic view, awesome tips.

[@glynhannaford7332]

Wise advice as ever, thanks Dave. 😊

[@peterhegol7548]

Hello dave, there's one thing I don't quite understand. My problem is exactly what you recommend to us - to shift into the right gear before entering the corner. But this ensures that the engine braking is stronger and I am less reliant on my front brake as I often slow down before the entering the corner. So my problem is that I can hardly ever use my front brake. What am I doing wrong?

[@CanyonChasers]

Wait to downshift until the end of the corner (in some familiar corners) to play with which control helps the most. Most riders find that waiting to downshift until much later results in a much smoother corner.

[@RaphaelChan888]

I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong (riding since 2019) but ever since I learned as a newbie that it's better to do most of your braking before turning, I've always downshifted to a comfortable gear before I enter a turn. I rarely ever touch the brakes once I'm in the bend. I've never felt too slow - at worst, I would maintain the throttle. By never having to rely on brakes in a turn, I feel so much more in control and safer - like I'm in a situation where I need to accelerate rather than slow down more if I ever have to compensate for poor judgement. I do use a little engine braking if necessary, so I find trying concepts such as trail braking impossible because if I was still touching the brakes into a bend, then I would really be over-slowing. Different strokes for different folks? Or poor technique? If poor technique, can anyone explain why?

[@storminben]

Not poor technique at all, setting your speed up for a corner and then riding through it with the throttle at least slightly open works in complete harmony with the basic mechanics of motorcycle dynamics. Sure, there are times when you need to brake mid corner so it is a really good idea to practice it frequently. But not to carry front brake into, through and most of the way out of a corner!

[@CanyonChasers]

"wrong" isn't really the best word. That technique is what I do in gentle or sweeping bends with lots of visibility, but its limiting when the road gets more technical, with more blind corners. The trailbraking method allows us to reduce risk. So we can ride the same speed we're going now with less risk, or ride quicker with the same amount of risk we were taking. The big problem with relying solely on engine braking is we are giving up a lot of control. The front brake not only controls our speed, but it controls our contact patch, our geometry and our radius. We can add and subtract small amonts of front brake pressure for incredible amounts of precision. Plus, because we are already on the brake, pushing the front tire into the ground, if something unexpected happens, like a deer or a cow, or whatever, I just brake more. As opposed to being on the gas in a bend and/or relying on engine braking. If something unexpected happens, do I add more coast? I have to transition from throttle to brake, allow the weight to shift back over the front tire before I can really begin to slow. Which takes up precious space and time. So, again, it's not so much about wrong, but more about using the correct technique for the correct situation.

[@IkaikaArnado]

I don't over slow. Some time I'll accelerate just to hit the corner faster. I feel like you have to go excessively fast to effectively utilize trail breaking on the road. Anywhere near the speed limit, I engine break into turns.

[@mikesbikechannel4387]

Upping your editing game i see! Good vid!

[@CanyonChasers]

Glad you like the new edits!

[@rcraven1013]

For those of you who live and ride in the UK just take a long look at this video and in particular the nature of their roads. They are wide, they are long, they are curved, they are pothole free and free of other traffic ie danger. and it goes on. We will rarely see any roads in the UK that look like these. So the roads he was on in the USA look as if one is on a racetrack due to the amount of space, tarmac or concrete available. We in the UK don't have that. our roads are smaller, narrower, bendier, blinder, severely bad surfaced etc. with shit , leaves water, ice etc. and so on. Its going to be increasingly difficult and dangerous gor us to trail brake here in the UK and also we do not teach the 'performance line' of the race track as much as they do in the USA. and its that 'performance riding' that requires and teaches only trail braking.

[@CanyonChasers]

This video, since i'm encouraging practicing a new technique, I specifically chose very mellow, easy corners. But I get this comment from UK riders all the time and it completely befuddles me. I love the UK and your riding, (freaking single track roads with passing places - I love it) but the idea that it's safer to accelerate or be on the gas in your kinds of bends is crazy. When I'm over there, I out-ride almost all the local riders, while taking significantly less risk. It's blind, with hedges, shitty tarmac, wet and greasy, I'm am 100% slowing down until I get the bike pointed out of the corner. The idea that one has to "read the corner" and predict the approprate speed, limites your options. I can't see through hedges and I can't predict the future. I will not go back to the gas until I can see my exit, verify it's clear. Accelerating towards what I cannot see is not the safer technique by any stretch of the word. Stop being afraid of your front brake and choose to be afraid of abruptness. Every UK rider I've coached whose tried my way comes back pissed off that they wasted so much time on your old-school roadcraft method. My way is safer, gives the rider far more options for the unexpected, more precise and more fun.

[@asturiancetorix2552]

That´s right, look fast, look far away, look near, medium range, near again, far again... constantly. Do not focus into something in particular. Just look, here and there. When you get used to it and do it right, you would be able to see more or less everything in front of you, but you are not really staring at anything, nor focusing on anything. Even when you see a inmediate threat, try not to panic and fill your eyes with it. Look around. A motorbike is little, sometimes there is a way out, but you have to look for it, not just keep staring at the threat untill you hit it bullseye. When you do this "looking fast thing" enough, then you realize that you will see the right path, a better turning point, see the correct apex, see that anoying bump, that oil on the road, or see if that car over there has seen us or not. If you look far enough you are buying more time to your brain to take good decisions, even when things are starting to fuck up. Safe riding folks!

[@CanyonChasers]

I love it! And well said. I always like how Scott Russell said his eyes were like a paint roller. Up and down up and down up and down.

[@FlesHBoX]

God what a beautiful, pristine road! That thing looks like it was laid just a few months ago! I really wish we had roads and scenery like that here in KS. Oh also, I'd have totally clicked on this video sooner (before I woke up today) if the thumbnail had an arrow on it! 😜

[@CanyonChasers]

The arrow version is testing 0.2% better than the one without the arrow. haha!

[@FlesHBoX]

@@CanyonChasers lol

[@stevemoore9951]

GREETINGS FROM THE PPRC GREAT VIDEO TODAY.🇺🇸🏍️

[@stromtrooper7118]

360 rules! As your advices!

[@Wroteread]

Dave, watching your videos I ride faster and faster yet safer and safer. Fast for me is slow for others and we all need to ride within our ability and experience. And yes - you do have 25 wrenches on the wall - did I win?

[@CanyonChasers]

So right! We ride the pace we are comfortable riding - above all else! And I've never counted my wrenches, so most assuredly win!

[@vijayam1]

The problem starts with when we start looking to infinity, but turning our heads too much. Flow with the line, see ahead, but don't go too ahead, that you come back, 50 pencing. Look far enough, gather the road data enough, and let the wheels follow your intended path of travel.

[@malarona]

Woooo..... this is the most beautiful scenery clip... a great video it is ...and thanks for the adv....yes..its all started with depend... 😂😂 ❤ from Malaysia

[@fallinginthed33p]

I still prefer going slower than faster up in the mountains with decreasing radius bends and 180° bends, where wildlife and gravel all lurk just behind the corner. I've seen too many riders bomb past like they were 100% sure there was nothing dangerous up ahead.

[@geoffbroderick403]

73 years old 50 bikes ,interesting video ,can you make a video explaining how different bikes have different engine braking some adjustable i have a t100 modded and has little engine braking also have a mv agusta brutale very seldom use brakes to me correct gear,and engine braking in corners is most offend enough to slow ,as the bike stands up on apex of corner one gets on gas ,there is more viable in ones style and experience, it's a bit like a golf pro no one the same ,get on Playstation improve reaction,and practice slow speed maneuvers, is my best tip

[@CanyonChasers]

It's really pretty simple, really. Bikes with lots of torque will have lots of engine braking. Old two strokes, no torque. They would seemingly accelerate when you rolled off the throttle, right? So while there is an element of style, or places where one rider is stronger than another, there are still a lot of fundamental basics that all the pro's are using. I know becuase I've been fortunate enough to talk to a lot of world champions. They do a lot more exactly the same than most folks realize.

[@geoffbroderick403]

@@CanyonChasers fundermentals don't change agree,track champion riders are like word champions my piont is that bikes are different eg my mv agusta on approaching a corner one has to if going fast enough using rh bliping throotle ,braking,off then on throotle ,and in sequence,will the t100 completely difference

[@martinkeet8373]

I have a 99 wide glide with a 21"front wheel. It understeers..... So I find myself entering unnaturally slowly, just to stay on the road...... It's really getting to me. My 98 Sportster S is neutral with its 19"inch front.... Is this just something I have to live with or is there a better way??

[@CanyonChasers]

I don't think understeer is the correct term. Understeer implies the front tires are losing grip and sliding so the bike keeps going straight. In motorcycle terms - we would say "tucked the front." Bigger wheels are more stable, but more reluctant to change direction. It's why 19 and 21 inch wheels are are dirtbikes and not superbikes. Smaller wheels are less stable, but more willing to change speed and direction. With bigger front wheels, it's more that we have to anticipate a little bit more because it takes a little longer for the front wheel to respond to our inputs.

[@martinkeet8373]

Thanks, appreciate your reply, don't totally agree.... Maybe you need to try a FXDWG.... 48 yrs experience here, more than 60 bikes but this thing has me scratching my head🤣 it sure feels like understeet, you just don't get the arc you expect... Anyway I bought an FXDX front end, will let you know 🤙

[@MattFellowswasHere]

I think for me, the problem isn’t vision anymore because I’ve been through some of these same corners 1000 times. The problem is, in right-handers, they always tell us to be on the far left side of the road so you can “see through the corner”… I’ve taught people that same thing. In practice, if you’re overcooking a right-hander…ANY increase in the turn radius puts you in the oncoming. So now I find myself shading right- of course that’s dangerous because you can’t “see through the turn”, but I’ve BEEN through the turn. And I hear a lot of people saying - what if it’s blind?-what if there’s gravel?- but what if there’s gravel right along the centerline when I’m where I’m “supposed” to be? I would rather be “too far” to the right when the tires start moving… I would rather end up on MY side of the double. So I seem to be carrying an insane amount of speed operating in the median of the right hand turns-and yes, I don’t have the “vision” to see where I’m going. I’m relying on a lot of instinctual type of riding. I would certainly not recommend this behavior for a brand new guy who’s unfamiliar with the local roads. But it’s the only way I could find to safely extract more comfort, and performance, while still going through the existing routes.

[@CanyonChasers]

So I love this point that you are making. Lane position, like so many other aspects of riding, needs to be dynamic. On one road, being as wide as possible into a corner is perfect. On another, I might be hugging the inside edge. But in both cases, I want to emply techniques that give me the ability to adjust or adapt to a tightening radius, an oncoming car, gravel, etc. KZbin likes video's with absolute answers, but the reality is there are so very few of those. Right?

[@MattFellowswasHere]

@Dave- I could not POSSIBLY agree more Dave-as you may know one the least favorite people to watch for me is MotoJitsu- Mr. “I have all the answers”- and you’re actually one of the folks I enjoy the MOST. As we know, motorcycling is not a settled science- in 2013 or so Marc Marquez taught us you can have the front wheel practically at full lock the rear a foot off the ground and somehow still articulate a race track- it looks like Pedro Acosta with BOTH wheels locked & sliding past people at speed -is going to teach us some more stuff… I’m not recommending we try ANY of it- but-Cossalter taught us that a motorcycle has ELEVEN degrees of freedom which is about 5 more than an AIRPLANE- probably none of us are gonna fully master its dynamics within a lifetime. So, much like you -I absolutely despise these- “just listen to me and I’ll tell you how this works” guys…

[@stevethomas4581]

I need a new full face helmet (must have a sun visor) recommendations please..

[@CanyonChasers]

My pal, Jen Dunsten just tested the new arai XD5, the new version of my XD4 and she says it's awesome. The new AGV AX9 I did not like, and the Klim Krios works well, but the fit and finish, etc isn't quite there yet. I've not run the Shoei because it doesn't fit my noggin, but I hear very good things about that one as well.

[@1mangostick]

Love the wobbie reference.. grunt things :D

[@CanyonChasers]

I got another comment that asked "was that in reference to Mr. Mom?" Well, yes, but also no! Haha!

[@andrea7693]

Which fork slider have you installed? I was trying to figure it out for my V4 PP

[@CanyonChasers]

Honestly, I think those were some Amazon ones I stumbled across several years ago. They've actually migrated from three different bikes. But SATO makes great ones, and I think GB Racing is also making some now.

[@888jackflash]

"PAINTING LINES" on public roads... washing your vision 'out and in' between the corner ahead and the current road surface. Roads (outside of California!) can get pretty choppy and require extra attention.

[@thanosetsitty1896]

Subscribed

[@CanyonChasers]

Thank you!

[@castor5001]

In your opinion, speed sings before the corner is a safe speed to take the corner. I tell the new raider you should take a corner at this speed. If you travel at 30 mph and the corner speed is 30 mph you no need to reduce... Have to be careful, for any road hazard. Then you can build up your corner speed from that speed.

[@CanyonChasers]

The problem is, what if there isn't a speed sign? What if the speed sign is wrong. What if it's raining? It's better to learn techniques and strategies that put us in the best possible position to deal with the unexpected than to rely on advisory speeds signs, braking markers, etc.

[@castor5001]

@@CanyonChasers good point, in my case in my motorcycle, (if the sings are not incorrect), If the sing said 30 mph no road hazard or wet surface confidence up 20 over in must cases. 25 over pushing a little. I really value your page and opinion,

[@CanyonChasers]

@@castor5001 There are so many really epic roads, some of my most favorites, and a great deal of roads in other countries, where you won't see a single corner advisory speed sign anywhere. So what do we do then? But also, I have the great opportunity to talk with quite a few world championship racers, and they say the same thing about brake markers. One even said to me "I've never once paid any attention to a brake marker" - He went on to clarify, that there are just too many variables. Fuel load, traffic, tire condition, temperature, etc. He said, I could use that brake marker to get a perfect entrance, but that only works if conditions were the same every time. The point is, we want to adjust and adapt each corner and not rely on rote sequences. KZbin really likes absolute answers, but the realty is, especially in our sport, there are so few of those. There are best practices, and proven techniques, but not many absolute, unbreakable rules.

[@CurtisBrandt]

But look at that fancy new Multi!

[@CanyonChasers]

It boogies!

[@CurtisBrandt]

@@CanyonChasers I like this presentation and I think you make good points, as usual. I hate to complicate it but I think setting corner speed takes a lot of practice, too. Use the tools (vision, lighter longer trail braking, etc) and you still have to creep up on the right speed for yourself.

[@lIlIllIlIllIlllIllIIIIIIIIIlII]

I struggle with taking 90 degree turns or U turns fast, I'm usually taking them around 20-30 km/h which makes me think I'm a bad rider idk

[@CanyonChasers]

So, in coaching on the racetrack once, i had a student come up to me saying "I can't find a fast line through that tight, 180-degree bend". My answer: There is no fast line through that corner - it's a slow corner. Remember, its not about being fast into the corner or being fast in the corner - its about being fast OUT of the corner!

[@CrissaKentavr]

Oh! What are the fuzzy things on the mic?

[@CanyonChasers]

The fuzzy things are called "dead cats" it's to reduce wind noise.

[@AwTheGears]

Those roads 😍 That scenery 😍 That bike 😍 Can you tell me where that is? Oh, and If you're ever back over in Scotland, give me shout and we can go for a spin. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿😎👍

[@CanyonChasers]

This was mostly filmed around Cascade Springs, up American Fork Canyon in Utah County. And we LOVE Scotland. Be careful, because I'll take you up on that offer!

[@AwTheGears]

@CanyonChasers You'd be more than welcome mate. If you could bring the weather with you. You know first hand how our summers can be! 🤷‍♂️

[@justahasbeen2728]

I'm glad you told us. I'd love to ride there but Utah drivers scare the crap out of me! Maybe one day I'll venture out of my beautiful Wyoming.

[@b-radsadventures6846]

CMP turn 8. We see it with students all day! (gods..I can't watch 360 cam footage. It is so unnatural.)

[@CanyonChasers]

Mrs. CanyonChasers agree's with you. She can't stand the fisheye thing. I just love the flexibility of it!

[@beanzbeanz]

Why is going slower a problem? If you’re going the speed limit and following the advisories in the turns you can ride and chill out. Take in the scenery. You’re not on a track and you’re a danger to yourself and others if you find yourself competing to look cool.

[@CanyonChasers]

Obviously, too slow isn't that big of a problem. But a lot of riders I work with struggle with overslowing so much into corners they are going significantly slower than the speed limit and the speed they want to be going. It's not about being fast, it's about precision and being able to get the bike to do exactly what you want it to do.

[@mroose97]

Wooby, Was that a Mr. Mom reference? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmOQf3meeq5geq8feature=shared 😆😆Great video!

[@CanyonChasers]

In a very roundabout way. In the Army, we were all issed a "waterproof poncho liner." They are universally known as the "wooby" (probably from Mr. Mom), but ask any Veteran about their wooby and enjoy the stories.

[@Eric-Marsh]

Great topic. Giving it some thought what I come up with is that where I ride (in the mountains of Spain) there are so many roads with so many corners that I never really learn most of them. We have some nice switchbacks coming down the hill (mountain) from my home. I know them well and am comfortable riding them at a reasonable pace. But all those other roads and corners out there, especially those that are blind spook me just enough that I probably ride over conservatively. I do have a 360 camera and here's an example of one of those roads. And yes, I may have been riding it overly conservatively. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpWQZ6CdlpmUqtk

[@CanyonChasers]

The truth of the matter is... It's far better to be conservative. I'm extremely conservative, especially on unfamiliar roads or even familiar roads that I haven't been on in a while. The ultimate goal is corner exit. If you are getting the bike pointed towards the exit and staying in your lane and all that, thats really what matters most.

[@jamescampolo7824]

I don't understanding all of this braking in curves. I almost never use my brakes in a curve unless it's a 15mph switchback in the Rockies. Maybe I have just encountered gravel in a corner too many times. Maybe it's 50 years of road riding on all kinds of twisties in all kinds of weather, animals, cow pies, etc. I always cover my brake but don't apply it unless something unexpected happens. Don't hit your front brake on a cow pie in the rain in a curve, I didn't and my back tire just slid out some and recovered.

[@storminben]

I'm totally with you. Not only were we being told to keep the brakes on the whole way round the corner, now we are being instructed to go round corners 2 gears too high!!

[@DH-co7sh]

That’s because you don’t understand the concept of trail breaking. You’ve never been taught how to do it. Simply put, “You need to load the tire before you work the tire”. Applying the brakes in mid corner without the front end being “loaded” is a recipe for disaster. Also, you may not go through corners quick enough to need any braking and there’s nothing wrong with that but knowing how to properly trail brake increases your safety, confidence and enjoyment. YMMV.

[@storminben]

@@DH-co7sh the concept of TRUE trail braking has been around for decades. This involves carrying brake past the turn in point (where you would ordinarily aim to be off the brakes) and, in some performance scenarios, all the way to the apex. The recent hijacked use of the phrase trail braking is nothing more than comfort braking used by people who have very low confidence in their riding and observation abilities. . The whole 'it's safer' argument is totally debunked by the fact people - don't use it in the wet (because it overloads the front tyre) - don't use it if they encounter dirt in a corner (because the friction required to use it is suddenly absent) - don't use it if they encounter bumps/ripples/ poor tarmac (because they unstick the tyre from the road) I'm ALL of the scenarios above having a neutral/ slight throttle and a very slight rearward weight bias works so much better. . I totally understand the appeal of 'if you need to brake mid corner then having the brakes already on is better' But the same applies on a straight and nobody is advocating riding down those with the brake on slightly 'just in case' . The simple fact is corners are scary and this fad is just a crutch for riders who would be far better served learning to corner properly and confidently and actually read the road

[@CanyonChasers]

Friend. I trail brake in all the scenarios you said it doesn't work. And so do the professional racers I work with. Please look at some updated information. I already sent you a video filled with reference materials, but also this book; Motorcycle Dynamics amzn.to/4fd4XzK uses physics and math to debunk your theories.

[@jamescampolo7824]

@@storminben On a curvy road, most of the time I stay in 5th. I have a Valkyrie which can slow to 25 if needed and go back to 65 in 15 seconds while in 5th. I don't have to do all of this braking and shifting. I just cruise.

[@kevinbroccoli2508]

People actually do this ?

[@kevinbroccoli2508]

I glad I’m not following you

[@wadeblake3451]

I find it frustrating when responders are adamant that trail braking is somehow wrong and unnecessary. Their solution of applying the front brake only once you are already in the corner and you find your speed excessive is simply wrong and dangerous in my opinion. If the best racers in the world consistently use trail braking how can it not be effective? I guess if you never go into a corner too hot (said nobody) I guess trail braking isn’t necessary.

[@CanyonChasers]

From your keyboard to gods ears! Trail braking controls our contact patch, our geometry, our radius, it gives us options to deal with the undexpected. It's not an emergency response, its part of the plan!