STOP ROMANTICIZING KILLERS | RANT

this just needs to end. also it's been officially ONE YEAR of no makeup mondays!
try the method I personally use for online counseling | www.tryonlinet...
------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l | [e-mail]
h o r r o r . c h a n n e l | bit.ly/1h7ZKUF
v l o g . c h a n n e l | / @sarahhawkinsonvlogs7150
t w i t t e r | #!...
s n a p c h a t | sarahhawkinson
i n s t a g r a m | / sarahhawkinson
d e p o p | www.depop.com/...
------------------------------------------------------------------
c a m e r a | canon rebel t5i
e d i t o r | adobe premiere pro cs5.5
FTC | not a sponsored video :)

[@ellad4776]

What people need to know is there's a difference between being interested by killers, and literally being like "School shooters are hot😍"

[@monochromedream-eatingbaku]

Exactly. I study psychology and crime in my free time, and I am especially fascinated by psychopathology, which more often than not leads me to research stuff about a serial killer. I do not like what they did, I think it's extremely wrong to kill someone, I only like to learn about it all.

[@mikabane9684]

I like to read about killers, crimes and stuff like that because is so interesting how the mind could work. The thing is, there is a lot of people who idolize those killers. Some time ago a girl saw me reading something about psychology and crimes in school and the girl approached me saying things like "Oh god!! you also love killers?! "X" is so hoot, do you know he killed a family? i don't like my family so i want a boyfriend like "X" and together we could kill owww 😍" I thought that she was making fun but... Well...

[@nickynicholsgf]

There’s a difference between being fascinated by it, but Columbiners/True Crime community?? MAKE VINE EDITS, think they’re sexy, want to fuck them, and defend them. That’s not normal.

[@babylozey]

To me there’s also a difference between being like “oh this guys attractive but he’s still a murder” and writing fanfiction about them. Like I think it’s okay if you think they’re physically attractive, but making flower crown edits and all that is weird.

[@reneemakope9760]

**cough** *_Nikolas Cruz_* **cough**

[@cj-kx4tj]

I used to slightly be a part of the true crime community (on tumblr) because like you I'm interested in the psychology behind them and their stories in the first place. But, most people apart of the community would do things like photoshopping flower crowns on serial killers, making video edits of them with romantic songs in the background and writing romantic fan fictions about them etc, it seriously made me feel sick to my stomach.

[@rainestar82]

tumblr culture as a whole romanticizes things that shouldn't be--mental illnesses and "sympathetic" serial killers being the biggest. I'm right there with you--I've always been interested in the psychology and in darker story themes etc, but tumblr people can't separate fiction from reality most times and its horrifying.

[@paigecoolest]

Cinzia J has anyone seen the tumblr community for Diabolik Lovers?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂 it's pretty bad

[@bunniesu_u]

thats one fucked up anime but at least its fiction

[@rachelmccourt]

Cinzia J i think its fine that you were a part of it as some blogs have very interesting content however so many accounts, like you said, just go over the line. Theres also so many accounts that ive found that just post lies:(

[@LadyWayen]

If i know the killers of the school shooting are romanticizing too, but rather the bullets lodged in all his fan girls heads

[@drewinsects]

Teenage girls who have blogs dedicated to romanticizing their fav serial killers should be forced to sit down and have a talk with family of a victim that was taken away from them by the guy they're romanticizing. See how edgy they are then.

[@bubblegumboi3869]

@reb 1999 lol you're still tryna' be edgy, give it up

[@bubblegumboi3869]

Lol you think your "bae" would love you? Hell no, they wouldn't think twice about shooting you too. :)

[@bubblegumboi3869]

What caused you to think like this? Hurting people isn't okay, that's so offensive to the victims families... I bet your parents regret not using a condom, either that or they did and you're just a condom malfunction..... :D

[@bubblegumboi3869]

@reb 1999 you're welcome :)

[@bubblegumboi3869]

And hey, i'm not the one saying "Fuck the families."

[@laupi90]

It's stupid when they say they don't idolize or romanticize them because of their murders but that's the ONLY THING they know about them. They don't know them, they don't know their personalities or how they really acted, they're only "falling" for them because they're good looking (questionable) and because tumblr makes people think that "oh, my love can save this abuser, if i love them enough they will stop abusing, they won't be bad if i love them"

[@sarahhawkinson]

sof exactly it's a toxic mindset and they have never generated a good enough reason for me to understand the posts that they create.

[@laupi90]

Sarah Hawkinson I don't think they ever will, they always give the same "I'm not romanticizing them" excuse. Also, they already started talking about you in their hashtags in tumblr lmao

[@toleratingtate1673]

it's not like that at all. look up Hybristophilia. they literally can't control how they feel, they feel attracted to people who have committed terrible crimes.

[@SephoraAri]

-Tolerating Tate don't excuse that behavior with something you cannot prove.

[@laupi90]

Tolerating Tate it's not proven, there's no research about it. It's a fetish and like any other fetish, it CAN be controlled, so stop excusing the romatization of criminals.

[@platypusnoiz93]

You know what? Shout out to all of the people who might have been killers but got help and never ended up hurting anyone. Way to go non-murderers!

[@themedia1271]

My dad admitted to me one time that he considered killing my mom's mom because she was abusive. So thanks dad for not killing her because I don't want you in jail!

[@bobbieproductions4491]

platypusnoiz93 finally, recognition of us!

[@Fallen-Saint]

The Media he get out of that shit Relashenship

[@diyasankar5147]

Sometimes I do think I am very detached from feeling remorse, and I rarely feel sorry for victims but I understand that, and I think that makes the difference. Maybe listening to way too many crimes being discussed made me used to it [ my family is mainly Police officers, my dad and his brothers are so true crime is like dinner table conversation to me, which is honestly sad because I feel like I can't or don't want to trust strangers, bc all I hear is the worst case scenario in everything] I don't know, but something I know very well is regardless of how little I feel about someone getting hurt, I would NEVER EVER harm someone on purpose..

[@sabrinab7974]

What people need to learn is that a person’s past doesn’t excuse their future, it just explains it.

[@emiliapawny4746]

They always had a choice. Their past didn't take every other option away from them

[@carlysmith6618]

Emilia Pławny It’s like these people fell in love with who they were before but even think that way abt someone knowing what they have done is disgusting

[@ichor2127]

Y E S

[@artisticalex1206]

That is very true

[@NoBody-zv6bh]

I agree. It doesn't excuse. It only explains.

[@HecticSophie]

I think the only reason we should pay attention to killers and their stories is to understand the psychology behind their actions so that we can see the warning signs and prevent these things from happening again. I don't have a formal education in psych like you do, so I don't know how much truth this holds, but I've heard it said that when you put people like this on a pedestal it makes other people in similar situations idolize them and make it more likely for them to commit similar actions.

[@briannasmith5384]

This response was amazing and I agree with you.

[@nowheregirl_19]

Hectic Sophie that's what I've heard too, and it's been the reason behind most cases.

[@gothwhisperer9656]

Hectic Sophie I love watching videos like that, I love how they think like Charles manson I'm a fan of him lol.

[@madmaggie7163]

I think we know plenty, and one thing we know is that it is very difficult to predict who will kill, or do other terrible things. The child who sets fires, is cruel to animals and wets the bed at a late age has been known to be high risk for a long time, but most terrible violent people will not necessarily exhibit all these signs.

[@xxmakeuplover05xx]

It really does. And some murderers are glad that they're story gets spread around. They love the attention. Reminds me of We Need to Talk About Kevin..the killer feels no remorse and is only happy with the attention that they're getting.

[@cassidymiao5835]

I think the postcard is fine because it says the name of the museum on it. It's a souvenir of the museum, not a tribute to the serial killers on it. The shirts are too much, though.

[@Marjol]

Cassidy Meow Also a postcard is not confronting other people like a shirt or other clothing item would be. You probably tuck it away as a souvenir of your visit. Unless you frame it and hang it because that can be misunderstood voor glorifying the killers.

[@5superbine5]

Cassidy Meow i kind of dont like that buying the postcard supports people that make money off of serial killers (&their merch)

[@cassidymiao5835]

Sabine Ihde that's understandable, I get what you're saying

[@wrinkleintime4257]

Cassidy Meow Like the stuff you would buy at Alcatraz ( the 1920's High security prison)? That makes sense to me though like a t-shirt or something really is kinda pushing it 0-0

[@wrinkleintime4257]

Sabine Ihde that's museums for you... have you heard of Alcatraz? It's a high security prison off the coast of San Francisco that you can visit and tour. And yeah, they're making money off of the prisoners and their stories , though you can argue that it's a historical place so it's alright. But yeah, museums need the money, no matter what their museum is about

[@jojocircus9818]

I feel like hunt a killer didn’t advertise that correctly because their service is more of a box that you solve a fake crime. So the ad was in awful taste

[@jackiejenson]

I might be sensitive because my friend was actually murdered by the father of her child and is still missing. But I think for some people unless you experience someone being murdered it is hard to understand. I can't say "I'm dying" or "that kills me" anymore without really questioning what I am actually saying. I can't even watch true crime shows, because it is not entertainment anymore, it is someone's real life and their friends and family have to suffer everyday because of the choice someone made. I appreciate you making this video and hopefully helping at least one person step back and realize how ignorant they are being. Thank you!

[@sarahhawkinson]

jackievongrimm I'm so sorry for your loss but thank you so much for sharing. I think too many people live in the fantasy of dating or being in the presence of a killer, and they could swear to me up and down that they would enjoy it, but I guarantee if they experienced possibly losing a loved one or facing that threat themselves, their entire perspective would change.

[@nnuu7618]

Elliot Rodger no one asked you to care.

[@lolipopscandy62]

+Elliot Rodger Of all the truly aimless people I have encountered online, you are truly truly nearing my top 5. Before I start addressing your truly destined-for-nothing ass, I'm so sorry OP to get kind of rude on your post, and all my respect to you and her family. Ok and now to you, you truly sad troll. There's no way you're a legal adult, so I feel kind of bad writing all of this to you. But you need to get a taste of your own medicine even though clearly the type of "medicine" you give to others, your brain obviously isn't developed enough to understand the impact your tasteless style of joking/acting is having on others. You have clearly been through some form of childhood trauma that is causing you to think it's cool to build up this weird ass "idgaf"/"I'm so edgy and dangerous" persona for yourself. Unfortunately, it really just comes across as sad, and not having the effect that you want. When you do this shit, people see you in the way exact opposite to what you want. You think by doing this, you're hiding your true self, but really we embarrassingly see an abused, weak, sensitive, sad child; that if faced with all the things they pretend to be up for will truly just transform to a pile of piss and tears...which is what you are. Like I addressed you in the beginning of this comment, "aimless" if you keep this up, and never accept that other people should not be the outlet for all of this, but really it should be the deep parts of yourself that made you act this way; this is what you will be in this life...aimless...and harmless. You will be an offensive outcast child forever living in the shadow that you don't have it in you to cause real damage, but still you are highly offensive and extremely unliked by everyone you meet. You will honestly die lonely...and UNFULFILLED, you'll always have an itch that you can't scratch. And the real shit of life, worse than you've ever seen will take you away from this careless persona; and you'll just be numb and sad and lonely. Stop this. Face your trauma, hug whoever did whatever to you. Start living properly, or truly live to be aimless, unfulfilled, hated, and alone (in the way where it hurts, not in the way that's ironic or cool). I bet you'd cry if I gave you a hug, heal.

[@WaffleFace23]

@Elliot Rodger We get it. You're so edgy and unpredictable. Feel cool now that you got someone's attention for once on the internet because you can't get anyone to give you the time or day in your pathetic real life?

[@elijahhartman5799]

Elliot Rodger I feel kinda for you, but the paths your role models took can only ever lead to being hated corpses before their natural end.

[@Sophie-gf9rz]

"The serial killer community" 2017, what a time to be alive

[@meat2023]

Sophie It has been around for years

[@meat2023]

justførkicks The loli/shota/map communities are still the worse though

[@цветок-ш7п]

Sophie lmfao

[@aurablue368]

Sophie it's actually called tcc or true crime community if I remember correctly

[@parkchimmin7913]

Battle wolf Yup, ever heard of the Creepypasta fandom? * shivers *

[@analisapena3086]

Let’s see how edgy they are when there’s a school shooter they’re in love with come to their school, and don’t spare them just because “They understood the shooters.” Or “they were cute.”

[@emiliapawny4746]

Dead bodies aren't very edgy (nor attractive)

[@analisapena3086]

Emilia Pławny Plus they stink after a while...

[@HaxStudio]

Many of them wish to be murdered by the killers. I’ve quite literally seen posts that detail how much they wish to be murdered mid-sex.

[@MR_3001]

@@HaxStudio ... I lost all faith in humanity

[@sarahlikestreez]

@@emiliapawny4746 mmmm, i'd have to disagree. not attractive to me either, but a heterosexual person wouldn't say themselves that a member of their own sex is attractive. it's simply subjective. and dead bodies are edgy (also subjective though), they just shouldn't be used to make one seem edgy or irritable.

[@idontknow.-.4477]

Most of the time the kids want to seem "cool" and "Edgy".

[@MrSafari12]

I watched this tcc vine compilation and in the comments they kept on saying “omg these normies just don’t understand” and that’s how I knew that they’re just stupid edgy teens

[@dreameva1400]

It's not from kids, it's actually from adults too so yea..

[@imshbcvhjh]

Idontknow .-. No not even

[@annabella6083]

No... i don’t think that’s right.

[@user-xc6ur2zq1i]

Got me there

[@mayaowens1699]

Apparently zac efron is going to play a serial killer in a movie and I am so completely worried that people are going to romanticize serial killers because of it

[@HeyPaulaCooper]

leo dicaprio is going to play hh holmes and I really watch that movies but I fear the same thing...

[@racheldestefano6312]

Maya Owens Ross Lynch (from the disney show Austin & Ally) is playing Jeffrey Dahmer I think

[@TheBellzilla]

Apparently he's playing Bundy. I'm honestly so worried for the people going to see it purely because it's a Zac Efron role and come out romanticising Ted fucking Bundy.

[@ΓωγώΚαραμαλάκου]

Maya Owens I hope people will realise that Zac Efron is an actor and Ted bundy is a serial killer and the fact that he is being portraited by a cute actor doesn't change what he did

[@LuciaBellanger95]

Bundy is a little different because he was a conventionally attractive man but it's my PET PEEVE when attractive people are cast as serial killers in tv shows or movies!! We shouldn't be attempting to sexualize them!! In Aquarius, the guy they cast as Charles Manson is really attractive, but Manson looks nowhere near like him. Also, don't even get me started on the romanticizing of Jack the Ripper ABC did for time after time on their twitter...

[@madstheghost4130]

Before anyone adds a comment! She is wearing a shirt with THE BAND MEMBERS OF THE BAND Depeche Mode! They are not, nor have they ever been serial killers or associated with serial killers. They are a BAND. Thank you.

[@alyssstiel1323]

thank you! i thought she was wearing one of the shirts she talked about (meaning having a serial killer on it). I was looking to see a comment pointing that out, but I didn't know it was a band so thank you for the clarification!

[@selenathetabby]

alyssstiel Oh my God, I literally thought it was Jeffrey Dahmer on her shirt until I saw these commentsXD

[@misscrouch]

Omg Fletch really looks like Dahmer😳

[@kittyxkat139]

This comment section is very interesting , I think this is the first Channel where everyone express their opinions in a respectful way & this is why I love it so much

[@Arrowean]

Mia Wallace Yes. I'm new to this channel and i love it.

[@abara5678]

nah theres more like this but they are hard to find

[@raversfantasy]

i have personal experiences with tons of victims families of the Columbine Massacre and it really hurts when these "columbiners" think they are so cool and edgy by glorifying the two shooters. You probably know about the girls that actually crush on them/write fanfiction about the two boys being secret lovers. I am interested in seeing the psychology behind THAT.

[@MadisonM1]

i know a girl who made a post recently memorializing them with a fan edit and shit and i always thought she was a dumb ass but that is some next level stupid ass disgustnig shit

[@k-musictrash356]

d a r k s i d e that is retardation

[@hamthehamster1892]

melancholy homicide bruh are you trying to support these people? Lmao choke

[@roselyali593]

No dumb ass if you are n love with a serial killer you are a fucking moron and crazy. I am in school now studying to be a criminal psychologist, I have a fascination with the mind of a killer. That's a huge difference between actually wanting a romance with them. these killers could give two shits about you they would kill you in a second but go ahead and keep thinking your special

[@fresh_tomatoes]

d a r k s i d e same, i also want to see why people want to be together with a mass murderer that ended many innocent lifes.

[@alexandramarie5926]

Stumbled across this video and immediately subscribed. being fascinated by the “why” behind a serial killers decision is one thing, but being fascinated with the person sexually or romantically is fucking disturbing.

[@CheekySmile98]

Alexandra Marie yeah same it’s acc ludicrous

[@chanelkohler9390]

Its also an actually Paraphilia, like someone who likes being choked or bdsm. So lets not poke fun or call people disgusting yeah? Note: I dont have it but if this girl can be a hypocritial sjw, i can to.

[@sullivn13]

i was about 14 or 15 when the tj lane shooting happened and being young and ignorant i made a joke on tumblr about how cute he was and then a few years later on a camping trip i met the sister of one of tj lane's victims and being that close to someone who lost a family member like that made me feel so sick and guilty for making a stupid comment like that

[@nnuu7618]

Elliot Rodger I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that if he killed one of your family members or friends. And how does that make him a hero?

[@xxmakeuplover05xx]

it shouldn't have even taken that much to make you realize what a sick joke that was...typical tumblr "edgy" girls

[@xxmakeuplover05xx]

Also the Elliot Rodger person has serious issues, they make edits of Elliot Rodger (a loveless boy who killed women in CA if I remember correctly because no girl liked him) so it's best to ignore them

[@samtaplet6117]

Erin Sullivan Did you delete it?

[@cal9464]

Elliot Rodger what the fuck. Stop trying to be edgy.

[@Ddscary]

Video Idea: Rehabilitation of killers and thoughts on the death penalty and life imprisonment

[@wickedamoeba8719]

Well, Manson is dead now. So we're good to go on that end.

[@slamacat9866]

Hahaha, you really think that'll stop em

[@ilikewatchingyoudostuff1525]

Maegin Williamson Now we’ll get “reanimate Charlie Manson” shirts

[@wickedamoeba8719]

I like watching you do stuff Oh shit, you are completely right! 😂

[@TheUniqueComedy]

when did he die?

[@wickedamoeba8719]

Danielle Trout November 2017

[@jamiethegaymie]

A couple of years ago I dated this guy who was obsessed with serial killers. At first I thought it was just a fascination with how their mind worked which I definitely understand because I do have a fascination with that but honestly his obsession started to actually scare me, he got way too into it and once even asked me to do a roleplay where he would be a serial killer and I the victim which I obviously could not do. I could not make this shit up. It's really frickin weird let alone just fucked up.

[@Sam-gv7zx]

James Cribbon It’s a good thing you got out of that. Not normal behavior

[@jamiethegaymie]

a girl named Sam yeah beyond messed up tbh

[@linziRyan1965]

My husband and I do that...role play Ted Bundy in bed. He likes to be dominant and I like to be dominated, isn't hurting anyone. It's consensual between us but I do understand if it upsets people.

[@cwupid1865]

Lindsay Chenault the fuckkkkk?

[@diyasankar5147]

@@linziRyan1965 why did i come across this comment..It's not my place to judge, but you do know what he did right? He was a necrophile, If i were you, i would think twice as to why my husband is asking me to pretend as a rape victim. Liking the feeling of domination is an entirely different feeling than getting off on vulnerability. Its not my place to judge but yeah man whatever, have at your kinks in your bedroom, but pray it on't bleed into real life..

[@LazyPeanut01]

I remember the first time i was introduced to this concept of romanticizing killers and real life psychopaths, we had a pretty nasty murder in Denmark a long time ago with a guy (Peter Lundin) that murdered his wife and children, chopped them up and threw them in the trash. Years later when he was still in prison i found out that he had been remarried in prison with a woman that had proposed to him through letters she had sent him througout the years. Unhealthy obsessions with killers could literally lead to your death if you take it too far, obviously the woman that married Peter is not dead since hes not out of prison yet but it's a very real threat.

[@briannalee1998]

Saw the title and said, "seriously." Because I agreed, but was still scared to watch this. Watched the video and subscribed. It is a problem that they do seem to be glorified. Why would anyone wear a shirt asking to free Charles Manson? Does she really not know what he did. Someone needs to explain to them that it's not cool or edgy to wear t shirts that seem to support serial killers. You are one of the most genuine and level headed KZbinrs I've seen.

[@xscwens4840]

Brianna Lee j

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

Well, at the end of the day, you have to understand people have their interests, and it's up to them if they want to gather envy or hatred. We just have to understand these people need help too. But condemning them isn't the best idea. A discourse would be more beneficial instead of slamming them.

[@isyourpunkrock]

you hair looks better than ever! it looks so healthy and full (and I am still obsessed with the colour!!!!) and I find this topic so interesting, since I study Criminology and I find the psychology behind it very fascinating

[@adeloconnell1220]

okay so everyone is dragging tumblr in the comments and I want to say it may have some twisted blogs on it but that doesn't mean the entire website should be shut down...I rely on tumblr for the supportive,funny,and relatable posts

[@sarahhawkinson]

adel o connell I agree it definitely has its dark sides, but there's also greatness in it!

[@KonekoNaru]

adel o connell same, tumblr has soooo many twisted, problematic sides at this point though, it's so sad. also everyone on tumblr only thinks in black and white, I hate it :c

[@adeloconnell1220]

Thank you for acknowledging that ☺ Sarah Hawkinson​

[@xChaiTeaLatte]

adel o connell Agreed. You can't really blame a website for the actions of a select few. A lot of people use it purely because they have an interest in something and want to follow others with the same interests.

[@adeloconnell1220]

Koneko Naru​ thank you for saying that..tumblr to me personally has been my haven for a few years now from the stress of real life as well as keeping me updated on my interests and I can waste hours on it talking to people. As well as that it is a platform for people to showcase their art or writing so to them it's a point of expressionism

[@tomesjanka]

Stop romanticizing killers. Start romanticizing The Killers. Nice vid though, i agree very much

[@tragic3086]

lol yES

[@wackywally69420]

AYYYY

[@estromberg5153]

He doesn't look a thing like Dyyylllaaan and he didn't shoot up a school like you imagined when you were yoouunnnngggg

[@misschnandlerbong7024]

I got sole but I’m not a soldier

[@anarchyalien2279]

This works much better

[@princessofpigs]

Most of these girls are super young, I think they are just trying to be "edgy" and they have alot of growing to do. I don't think most people can fully appreciate the value of a life until they get older and see a bit more of the world and have more life experiences. To them it's just typing shit into a keyboard because they are drawn to an unsaveable persona (Lets be honest most of these kids grew up middle class and probably haven't ever seen a real gun). I think with time, experience and also maturity most of those girls will come to appreciate how fundamentally weird the trend is

[@dayamdz9974]

Sophie Auld What's wrong with being in the middle class? I've used a gun before. I've used a rifle, etc. I'm 14.

[@dayamdz9974]

Sophie Auld Smh, typical rich kids

[@rice4854]

ive seen the true crime community on tumblr and trust me, majority of them are 17+ years old :/

[@candistelmos9423]

I’m going through like an “edgy” stage and I think this is so weird

[@buffysummers5828]

They're making a movie about Dahmer starring Ross Lynch, and all I see in the comments on videos about the movie are Dahmer fans talking about how much they love him and how they want to marry him and it's so sick.

[@mynameswhatsername6952]

hi lol ugh honestly theyre ruining the movie for me. im a huge fan of the graphic novel the movies based off (one of the first i read) and have been waiting for it to get adapted but i dont want these crazy bitches talking about how they "love" dahmer like wtf like he would ever look in ur direction anyway

[@toby7059]

They don't even understand that Jeffrey Dahmer is a REAL PERSON, NOT A CHARACTER. I had a scrap with one of the Girls at my high school about it, istfg.

[@Trunks1200]

I think there is a difference between trying to understand a killer and romanticizing it. As someone who wants to be a filmmaker, I think that movie is great, one of my new favorites. It is an interesting look into the tragic past of one of the most depraved humans to ever live. The movie does a great job showing how his horrible life effected his mental state while also not endorsing, glorifying, normalizing or making excuses for his actions. They show him as a horrible human, but a human nonetheless. The people who would deny that, and look at him as some sort of idol are either sick themselves, trying to be edgy, or not fully aware of what they're talking about. I can watch that movie and even on some level empathize with the shitty things in his life (parents getting divorced, being bulled at school things like that) But I still, if given the chance, would have been first in line to pull the lever on his electric chair because of the deplorable things he did. I know how to separate those things. Just because I understand why he did some of the things he did doesn't make them right, and it doesn't mean I have to be like him. These kids I think feel that same empathy, maybe they were bullied too or something? but they can't make the distinction.

[@цветок-ш7п]

hi lol that's fucking sick

[@420bb]

Dhammers gay they don't got a chance he's also dead lol head smashed by a sink in jail

[@blueberrybelly5048]

Adding in my input to the discussion, take the character JD from Heathers for example. He’s fictional, his character was in no way meant to glorify or romanticize murder, and he is in all aspects meant to be seen as a villain. And yet people still glorify his actions, tweens and teens saying “UwU he was just misunderstood, he moved around too much and his daddy was neglectful and his mom died ✨” Those events taking place in his life do not justify his actions. He had problems, those problems could have been worked out if he had gotten proper help. But he didn’t, he killed people, and his actions are in no way justified by his childhood traumas and are not meant to be glorified. Yet they still are, and it’s scary to see people justifying malicious actions like that even in a fictional character.

[@sierra2976]

YES like my cousin she’s actually pretty young and she said her favorite is JD and i’m like girl you do realize what he is right and she always replies “but stilll” like no there is no excuse!!

[@n4ti]

Thank you!!! I was trying finding who agrees. My friend think the opposite of me, and I’m telling her that he deserved to die (not trying to be rude) But what he did was disgusting 😤

[@andrealaura5817]

JD from the musical was becoming a better person cause of veronica, I really thought he was going to go to police and confess; but instead he exploted. in the movie he is a fucking murderous stalker who uses veronica fro his own advantage.

[@andrealaura5817]

i miss you Yeah, I agree. Sorry if my English was sh*t, 3:00 a.m me isn't really good at writing. But that was what I was trying to say.

[@lenatraceroxton1363]

pigkeeper102 Bo I mean when I watched Heathers, I really liked JD. I thought he was a cool character. That's the keyword: character. Obviously I know that it's not cool to kill people and plot to blow up your school but as a character, I thought he was interesting.

[@cosmocollier7352]

my brother just graduated from Marysville Pilchuck High School. And for those who don't know,we had a school shooting were i think 5 people died including the shooter, by his own hand. He knew the shooter and was good friends with him and recently got a tattoo of a tomahawk with two feathers, one blue and one red. the red one represents the school and the people who died and the blue one represented the shooter. the "my favorite school shooter" thing pisses me off beyond belief because so many people where absolutely devastated by the shooting. people lost friends, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews, nieces; and people DARE to say that they are a "fan" of a school shooter? NO. My brother got that tattoo for the people who died and for the people who's loved ones where taken away from them. His friend killed himself and 4 other innocent teenagers and nobody deserved that. Marysville is such a good town and that tragedy shocked everyone to the core. my Middle school had to set up a safe space in the library for kids to go there if they where affected by it. we made cards but cards don't make up for the lives lost. we made a banner, but a banner won't stop a mother from burying her baby girl. We cried and held each other in a time of need but that didn't bring back any lives. and for people to say that they are "fans" of these people who took lives and killed not only people, but dreams, ambitions and hope, is absolutely disgraceful and disgusting. Its been 3 years now and it still haunts me, the sick feeling. I was hollow asking if my big brother was ok, calling his phone and PRAYING for him to pick up. he did. he was ok. and i cried. people died. People where worried to the point of tears for their loved ones. and you know what communities like mine get? DISRESPECTED by CUNTS like these who praise and glorify people who did that kind of thing and actually got the privilege of living afterwards. congratulations, you love killers. I hope your "fandom" enjoys that.

[@nnuu7618]

Elliot Rodger What is wrong with you?

[@camomileparfait]

Elliot Rodger you're sick. You're an actual person. Making edits about that murderer in your profile picture.

[@taranorene7808]

And what if he had slaughtered you? Or someone close to you?

[@eimhearr]

Cookie Master this comment is beautiful. whoever you are, i love you, you are protected and your community is strong. there is always support !!

[@fijiwater6030]

ACE PLAYZ everyone has an option not to. they never had to do what they did. there’s plenty of other ways to deal with bullies besides killing people. you should be the bigger person and control your anger towards the bully. if revenge is your goal, you seriously need help.

[@jordans8617]

hONESTLY THANKS for this

[@christopherclark8788]

Remember Max from Stranger things? This is her now

[@lavashu1916]

Christopher Clark that is what I thought about first lol

[@cause-n-fx5833]

last name is literally Hawkinson

[@grace-4072]

omg i thought you meant the people obsessed w killers i was like UH

[@ichor2127]

"Feel old yet?"

[@kax358]

i feel like the tumblr obsession with Tate from American Horror story sparked this, and yes a lot of attention seeking i think

[@yerawizardjimmeh809]

Kax Tate is fascinating to me, but he is in no way a mentally stable or healthy person at all. He's a sociopath, with no feelings. I think AHS portrayed that perfectly when Violet left him because of how evil he was. I think some viewers just didn't see too deeply into the show and became obsessed with him🙄 it really is scary how some people just don't get the picture of the message ahs was trying to spread to the audience. At first Tate seems like a beautiful person. Then the show mindfucks you into having you find out all the terrible things he's did. Then you don't believe it at first, but then you realize how terrible of a person he is and are happy when Violet finally leaves him. Some fans just stop at the beginning and are so one dimensional that they can't read into the message of the show. So yeah, Tate is a complex character and is the epitome of evil and the epitome of why ahs is a psychological horror. Some fans just see him as eye candy, which is sad and makes me lose faith.😓

[@pigeon3264]

That season aired in 2011 and the obsession definitely predates AHS.

[@yerawizardjimmeh809]

pigeon exactly!!

[@kax358]

pigeon Um.. maybe the general obsession with serial killers but not this online stigma no..

[@samanthamickus7946]

Kax Tate is a fictional character though that's different. yeah he's bacily made to be a character in leather pants if you know what that term means.

[@emmayockey]

My only critique with this video is that you seems so afraid to ruffle any feathers that you end up tip toeing around the issue. You had a totally valid argument with every example you presented, but I feel you were unable to state your point because of fear that you will offend someone in this "community". You're an educated woman, be critical where you see fault and don't apologize for criticizing someone's behavior.

[@xxmakeuplover05xx]

I felt the same way! Like girl just tell them they're wrong for this and be unapologetic, cause they are unapologetically loving and romanticizing murderers!

[@emersonjakes8119]

Vina yes! This happens in several of her videos, and I fell like she's afriad to make her point and I would love her to be more behind her argument because it's a good one. It's not a bad video, just it doesn't help the argument

[@mantispantis]

As someone who has been on Tumblr for a long long time, i really saw this start when everyone started watching American Horror Story. Everyone on the website who was from the ages of 14-16 was obsessed and “in love” with the charector Tate from AHS. Keep in mind he set his mothers boyfriend on fire, killed kids in a school shooting almost down to the detail “do you beleive in god” from columbine, then killed 2 gay men, raped and impregnated the one of main charectors as well as what ever else he did...? It was all very disturbing and then well now we have this gross community.

[@countrystarkid]

Your Neighborhood Witch I think that one is down to people who think Evan Peters is good looking. I am one of these people I'm not going to lie he is a good looking man. I also think that they see how he treats the lead female character (I can not for the life of me to remember her name) how protective he is and ignoring all the crazy bits. I'm not saying that romanticizing Tate is in ANY way okay I'm just trying to think of the reasons why.

[@amalia3854]

Your Neighborhood Witch I'm 11 and I used to be obsessed with Tate Dont ask why I am watching AHS at the age of 10 lol

[@Sara-wu4vu]

I’m not in love with Tate, just Evan Peters 😂❤️❤️

[@TheAngelmisa]

Sara XD

[@noice2114]

I think the reason for it is that girls love dark, bad boys and love to think about the attractive psycho guys treating them differently from the rest, in this case, Tate. Not only is the actor good-looking but he also showed a very different behaviour and emotions towards the girl. I mean, I'm pretty sure the reaction of the females who watched the show wouldn't be much different if Tate didn't kill anyone and still had a tad bit of that psycho and dark aura around him, it's just the bad boy look and the thought of having a badass boyfriend. They probably just cut out all the bad things he did because they like the romance too much to be bothered, so I wouldn't look that deep into the Tate situation lol, he is a fictional character after all and I really doubt it that a lot of people liked him because of the killings.. But it's a very different situation if you feel like that towards a real life serial killer with real life victims, you can't really cut them out of the picture just so you can drool over the hot guy because the victims are actually real and dead, so that's definitely when you have a serious issue.

[@thepoetjonez]

As a person in the field and with a Masters Degree in Psychology , and someone who has studied criminal psychology, I do have an interest in criminals, crime, and individuals that kill (serial/spree/ etc.) However, what people do not understand that romanticize these individuals that kill is that these individuals often suffer from narcissism, poor impulse control, criminal psychopathology, issues with anger, and a lack of empathy. Most are very deeply troubled, and many have suffered a psychotic break or suffer breaks with reality. Dating one of these people would most likely subject you to high levels of both emotional and physical abuse, a lack of commitment on their end, or they could become overly possessive to scary and abusive levels. Not to mention many still have issues in terms of sex and their ability to have a normal and healthy sexual relationship.

[@juliejealousy]

Jonez ooh I'm going to grad school for a psych program next year! What did you study and what do you do for work now if you don't mind me asking? I'm also a criminal justice minor :) I agree with your argument here a lot! Sorry to randomly pop in but I read Sarah's comments sometimes because she seems to attract other psych majors 😆

[@thepoetjonez]

I mostly worked with young adults doing crisis intervention and also group therapy. I also taught some courses at the Bachelor and Masters level. Right now I am transitioning into another area of the field, but plan on teaching some more courses at the college level.

[@thepoetjonez]

All my experience has been in general counseling (family and relationship therapies as well as assisting LGBTQ+ youth that was in crisis.) I have a Bachelor's degree in Counseling and Psychology with an emphasis on abnormal Psych, a Masters in General Psychology and a post-masters certification in Teaching Psychology.

[@urmom-fs2qn]

Just popping in here, but would they have abusive tendencies over others if the killers did "Love" the person? Like, say this killer "Loves" someone, and that someone is already married or something. That could lead to a forced abusive relationship. But then, if someone liked them back, the abuse would drive them away, leading the killer to force you to stay one way or another. Am I right?

[@urmom-fs2qn]

And forgot to add, maybe try to kill people they seem like are taking you away from them, including family members.

[@raven9233]

She speaks with intelligence and compassion; she speaks the truth!

[@andjakiki78]

The thing about tumblr is that they try so hard to be "different" and "edgy". It's same as romaticising mental illnes, they simply want attention.

[@pabloinoveralls]

corina blue and literally no one is forcing you to read this comment go fuck yourself and your shitty columbine edits

[@hhasnohope8488]

corina blue Nothing annoys me more than people who use IQ as an insult. I mean even if you have an above average IQ it still makes you look like an arrogant douche bag. By the way IQ test are designed for children to take and only measure your ability of solving puzzles. Some argue IQ test don't measure intelligence at all. And also no ones forcing you to be here either. I mean I'm not mad that your here I just wish to understand why this is a phenomenon. I just don't get it it's pretty messed up... Sorry for my tangent goodbye stranger.

[@graciek4700]

I feel like a lot of these girls want to be the harley quinn type of person, that one person that can hang around with this truely evil person, and have a special connection with him. They want to be the one that can 'change' him. They want to feel special, different from other girls and edgy. That is what I think. Just hearing the things they post made me feel extremely disgusted. I hope they grow out of this fase soon.

[@IWantALeatherBag]

I really don't think so, I used to be obssessed with Luka Magnotta but never told anyone, I was only extremely fascinated by his personnality

[@graciek4700]

Miami Beach I did not say all girls ;)

[@societyclown1280]

These girls wanna have a Joker/Harley Quinn dynamic with serial killers, but I’m just saying Joker abused Harley sooo Bottom line is serial killers are bad don’t fangirl over them

[@abrahamnaquid4081]

It's just pretentious people trying to look interesting.

[@tictacsonthefloor1958]

Abraham Naquid catańo if it is, is it a problem?

[@mymomlovesme4986]

kind of, sabha, 'cause they're going to make a fool of themselves

[@tictacsonthefloor1958]

MY MOM LOVES ME isn't that their problem then?

[@mymomlovesme4986]

yeah, sure, except it's not actually just pretentious people, it's stupid people who glorify killers and then, in some way, possibly influence others, especially the younger generations, into thinking these killers/killings are great.

[@tictacsonthefloor1958]

MY MOM LOVES ME i think killers are always gonna have fans, no matter if older generations like them or not

[@harleydart]

Shows up to tinder date, sees guy wearing a John Wayne Gacy shirt, turns around....

[@Neha-ue3uk]

turns around, goes straight home and calls the police

[@ivannav9175]

Well if you're a girl you're safe. John Wayne gacy only killed men, men are victims too Becky

[@thisaccountisembarrassingi4429]

@@ivannav9175 True, but it's still creepy to be wearing a shirt with a killer on it.

[@m.h2247]

I COULD NOT agree further. Your words made me gain a bit more faith in humanity. Those people just want to get interesting lives, getting out of the "normal" circle. Usually, I just forget about them, they're mostly delusional but here it's just too much. Thank you for putting that up.

[@cceerrs]

Melody Headburn Yeah I get that 😟 I used to want to be out of the "normal circle" so I'd say and do the edgiest things I could think of. Eventually I realized it was wrong and just plain embarrassing and told myself there was no "normal circle" or normal people. But now I'm surrounded with friends like that because of my past actions. I can guarantee that people like that will regret what they said in the future 😑

[@anonymouse0123]

ppl focus more on the killers than the victims, like most of us know the killers names etc and not the victims which is sad when u think about it.

[@nnuu7618]

Elliot Rodger Who asked you to care? Seriously who did?

[@vivian2429]

Elliot Rodger GAG

[@GamingWithGlacier]

Elliot Rodger Honestly, wtf is wrong with you? Please tell me that all of your replies were a joke!!! What if that was your friends and family? What if someone murdered somebody that you deeply cared about? Would you still have that mentality? Yeah, I don't think you would. But then again, what do you expect from somebody who has the name and the face of KZbin's own school shooter. Serial killers are NOT angels in disguise. Serial killers are NOT cool. Serial killers are NOT cute.

[@pastelstarsmsp7460]

Most of the time, they don't reveal the victims' identities to the public, which is why most people focus more on the actual killers.

[@ellenmonaghan1006]

LMFAO hello elliot rodger, I see you have risen from the deceased

[@EvelynIvoldis]

All these people who idolize killers remind me of Helter Skelter and Jonestown. Literally, so many innocent people driven to worshiping a false prophet and do anything to please them. Whether it be killing famous celebrates or killing those who wanted to be free from the pain, no one but the innocent get blamed, and the killers are remembered as being false idols once again. It makes me sick thinking people who couldn't care less about others are being worshipped like this.

[@aporue5893]

the important thing to realise is that ''helter skelter'' is only a song

[@mori238]

I'm my opinion people who like ACTUAL killers have a problem, but if it's a fictional character then I don't entirely mind. In some movies the "villain" isn't always a bad guy. I mean the Joker is a monster, but if it's a character that isn't evil and more broken, then I can be flexible. As long as they aren't complete psychopaths and fictional, I think it's okay to like them.

[@noodlekatz4449]

The Pawn Goes First I totally agree, and the only version of the joker I've ever liked was the version from Batman: the brave and the bold. All the other versions I just can't like.

[@jiminpng4379]

agreed

[@monochromedream-eatingbaku]

Yup. People need to learn there's a difference between reality and fiction.

[@niamhusthegreat5085]

I agree. I low-key have a massive crush on Tate from American Horror Story.

[@monochromedream-eatingbaku]

+Ryan Stanley You might wanna spellcheck your comment. I mean, Genocider *Soy* would be a funny name, but still.

[@Sina856]

I gotta say, I'm so glad that you were in my recommendations! Rare to see such a well-spoken and sophisticated individual :)

[@nebbyandthecosmogrevolutio8477]

Teenager: serial killers are cute Me: *takes out a pair of clown shoes* go ahead put em on since your ass wanna act like a clown

[@aporue5893]

lol.

[@theresafrancis451]

having a favourite school shooter or favourite serial killer is like saying you have a favourite illness or something. it's weird. Serial killers aren't member of BTS, christ.

[@k-pooper4603]

Theresa Francis skanahbsjqo lmaO

[@PlantagenetRose]

( > ▽ < ) oh my gosh. Yes, if you want to obsess over someone hot, FIND A FLIPPING BOY BAND OR SOMETHING! Not a murderer! Like wtf?

[@zanezz224]

omg for real

[@xt0rt333]

You’re right, members of BTS are worse.

[@nyxie653]

ikr? seriously if you're wanting to claim a favourite of everything, go stan a boyband lmao

[@sara_abdin]

maybe these people who are "in love" with serial killers have issues themselves

[@iamyou105]

Sara Abdin I honestly believe we do. Especially the ones who fantasize about the killers performing horrible acts on them.

[@belle6506]

Don't we all?

[@aldodejellyfish177]

The romanticism of Ed Gein makes me sick all these inspired coats nasty

[@arianalopez9163]

I'm seeing a lot of 'stay out of their business, they're not hurting anyone' comments and I have to disagree. There are actually quite a few cases of individuals romanticize macabre literature and deceased killers. There's actually a several-hour documentary about the effects of young teens being involved in the dark web and getting themselves into communities that support these people. Friendly reminder, there was a case about two tween girls who took their friend into the woods and stabbed her 17+ times. They confessed they had been taught what to do by other girls in the Tumblr killer community and that they'd be like their idols by killing their friend. -\(•u•)/- this stuff has an effect on people, especially impressionable young minds. Don't tell people to stay out of their business and that this isn't a real thing just because it doesn't effect you.

[@midgetwthahacksaw]

Ariana Lopez Literature isn't too bad because it's fiction and most know it's only a story. In fact, Edgar Allen Poe really got me into similar kinds of works and The Hunchback of Notre Dame is also a dark, gothic story that deals with some disturbing things which make you think. It just important to be aware about how far you are going and what your motivation is. Literature to me is fairly harmless. Being obsessed with real life killers and putting them on pedestals to be worshipped is where the real danger comes from.

[@mariar.4893]

Ariana Lopez I hate the fact that I live in a world where “Tumblr killer community” is a legitimate thing

[@unikittyproductions2797]

Ariana Lopez Not only the the girls stab their friend, it was for SLENDER-MAN. A FICTIONAL CHARACTER

[@ladyscarfaceangel4616]

Ariana Lopez That Slender man case was just stupid! When I was a young girl I loved Micheal Myers. I’m still a huge Halloween fan, but I actually had a crush on Micheal Myers. I knew it was only a movie, & he wasn’t real. Murder never once crossed my mind! I just wanted to meet the different actors, & get their autographs. I had a huge collection of posters, the VHS collection, eventually the DVD’s when those first came out, action figures, etc. I honestly think those stupid girls knew Slender man wasn’t real. I think they just used that as an excuse to get out of trouble. If everyone thinks they’re completely bat-shit crazy their punishment will be less severe in their warped minds. They wanted to jump on the “blame the media” bandwagon. In this case the “media” was the Internet. They didn’t want to own up to their crime. I also think real life, & fiction are very different. I’d never idolize a real killer. I lost my sister, & my step-brother very early in life both to murder, so that’s something I take seriously. My sister, Julie Angel (RIP), was raped & murdered in Chicago in 1980 by serial rapist Robert Koppa. A sick pedophile who is thankfully, now dead. Entertainment & real life are separate worlds.

[@sarahlikestreez]

I HEARD ABOUT THAT CASE! They lied to her about where they were going. They said they were going to hang out. Wasn't it just because they were annoyed of her for some crap reason? I never knew that they had a TUMBLR community. I've never heard THAT detail... oh my goodness

[@VVacinoVV]

Whenever I see that kinda merch I automatically think, "we get it, you're an edgelord" 🙄

[@4st7lb96]

nobody says edgelord anymore lol

[@VVacinoVV]

@@4st7lb96 cry about it

[@monicalozano4072]

I like to listen to true crime podcasts and watch true crime documentaries, but I have never ever sympathized with the killer. I never even knew people were romanticizing serial killers, that's actually pretty messed up.

[@raydengregg1699]

those people on the tumblr community don't understand the finality and depth of death apparently.

[@darklobomator]

It's killing someone else that's inhuman, not death, fucking larping serial killers trying to sound deep cause they watch american horror story

[@genericperson1002]

melancholy homicide killing some one and natural death are 2 different things. And death is barely even censored otherwise almost every movie or cartoon you've seen would not have been made or aired on tv

[@layoverbear]

As a future forensic psychologist, i am obviously very interested in them. Read a couple books, watch some videos. But never, NEVER will i make them look cool or romanticize them. I want to understand how a human could do what some of them did. Its a healthy, professional interest.

[@taw2377]

As someone who was once friends with a dude who actually had plans to shoot up his middle school- thank you for this. He idolizes JD from heathers, Tate from AHS, Dylan & Eric, and sooo many others and he will cosplay as them ( not dylan & Eric lol that would be fucked up ) and his whole mindset is so gross. Now as seniors in HS he has dropped out so I don't have to worry about him committing a school shooting but dear lord. I was never scared of anyone who idolized serial killers/mass murderers before because I had a fascination. This kid made me learn the difference between fascination and idolizations.

[@martinm.5513]

taryn w you should have gone to the police

[@taw2377]

Martin M. He told me about his plans when we were sophomores, he said his plans had been in middle school and wasn't planning on it anymore, plus he lived in an entirely different school district than me. It would have been useless to tell his school or the police about 3-4 year old plans. Who knows, he could have been lying and they could have been current plans under the guise that they were in the past, and I would have felt incredibly guilty having known any information if he did do something, but really as a 15 year old I didn't know what to do with the information.

[@youtubetrash3196]

taryn w A guy I know at my school has Columbine stories on Wattpad. He gets mad sometimes in class, and people joke that he will shoot up the school. He's currently been suspended for 3 weeks for "disturbing topics" on his KZbin channel. He's a dumbass

[@aloser2821]

And the school gave zero fucks?

[@stephi6792]

I think it all boils down to how they feel they could change them, when in reality it most likely wouldn't be the case with some serial killers and mass murderers. These girls are fuelled with the fascination of these criminals and combined with their yearn to be edgy or cool, they tend to romanticise them and forget the ugliness behind the mask. As you would notice, most of these accounts are run by pre-pubescent teens who are naive and are left to their own accord online... It's the same with fan accounts for anime characters, tv show actors, musicians, youtubers etc. They see someone attractive (to them) combined with their fascination and respect; they develop this fantasy-like relationship as a way to perhaps cope with their own issues. If anything it's really sad.

[@slimkt]

I’m not one of those people romanticizing mass murderers or serial killers so I can't speak from anything other than an outside view. Much like you, I’m just fascinated about the psychology behind it, probably because the desire to hurt other people is so alien to me. That being said, I think these people that fantasize about serial killers/mass murderers are delusional people who have far too much access to the killers’ personal information such as Eliot Rodger’s manifesto or Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold’s personal journals. I think these people read those and begin to feel a connection with the murderers, much like stalkers can get with celebrities. The sad thing is, we (as a collective society) want answers when tragedies like massacres or serial killings happen, and the media are practically frothing at the mouth to get the hottest scoop (whether to help find those answers or to boost ratings,) and so those folk will always have a source of insight into the killers’ personal thoughts or life. The scary thing is just how many delusional people are out there.

[@zgi7907]

I know this is not an excuse but i love fictional killers like Dexter etc. I don't think it's a bad thing bc i don't have sympathy for real life killers. But the all this tumblr thing is real fucked up. They're all posers, like gurl, you'd crap your pants if you would've seen a serial killer.

[@LA-ot1zt]

Kya Moham why "other than the zodiac killer"?

[@ccddle]

I'm assuming it's because there is a lot of mystery surrounding the zodiac killer... His messages were deciphered but he was never caught.

[@niamhusthegreat5085]

I totally agree. I low-key have a massive crush on Tate from American horror story. I also love Dexter and all that. It's very interesting.

[@j0sie627]

trash kid liking fictional serial killers is fine as they don’t exist and haven’t actually committed murder, having a fascination with serial killers is also fine, as long as you don’t like them or praise them etc.

[@ElLibrerodeAlex]

That's what I was going to say, I was very attracted to Dandy from AHS but is because of that fixer complex,however I fucking hate real life killers, I really can't understand this "community" glorifying those people ugh.

[@elicrabcake5439]

I really enjoy learning about the cases but I have never looked at someone like Ted Bundy and thought "oh gee he is soooooo cute" I think "god what monster" I like to research but I feel empathic to the victims families and I think that's what some of these girls are missing. They are latching on to a killer and putting the Loki effect on them. "Oh well he is misunderstood and I am too." The girls blur the reality. Trust me when I say, while researching I've come across actual serial killer Fanfiction.

[@ladder6954]

he's a murderous monster but let's be honest, nigga cute

[@littlewinterflower1831]

Elizabeth Tracy I myself am always more fascinated by Villains in fiction than the heroes. Darth Vader, the Joker, and yes Loki is a really good example. I think people sympathize with "bad guys" a little more because as humans it is easier for us to be wicked than to be a good person. Though of course, no healthy fan would ever say they condone the actions of any of these characters, and for some of them I think the Savior Complex part is spot on.

[@emmarellda181]

Spot on with the Loki effect, I see that everywhere in the MARVEL community. I am always more interested in the villains and antiheros, because of how alike yet different we think. I think that people sympathize with them because they could see why they do that, especially with a bad past like Loki's. Its one thing to be interested and another to be interested in dating. But like Tom Hiddleston tho

[@a.b.2909]

okay so, if someone showed me a picture of Jeffrey Dahmer (and I didn't know who he was) I'd think he was a cute guy, but if I found out that he was a rapist and a serial killer that'd be the end of it. I wouldn't stare at pictures of him, I wouldn't write fanfics, I wouldn't want to date him. Yes, Ted Bundy is cute on the outside and so are a lot of other bad people, but come on guys. Seriously? Liking fictional villains is fine (I like Loki too), they haven't hurt anyone, but liking murderers/rapists/abusers is crazy

[@emyliojnes6784]

*cough* *cough* wattpad!

[@charleyturner7654]

TCC: omg I love him so much he's my favourite murderer omg he's so cute haha killing people is adorable tehe also TCC: excuse me we don't condone their actions when have we ever said that...

[@pyrosdad8280]

your point? They're different people,some are genuinely interested and some are fangirls

[@dannaalquati]

THANKS FOR THIS

[@michellemathers120]

Danna Alquati Dannaaaaaa

[@michellemathers120]

I never expected to find you here. Veo tus videos siempre😍😍

[@chaotica7271]

Danna♡

[@valeryperez6147]

Dannaaa

[@jemima885ify]

I'd never heard of TJ Lane before but I just looked him up, but I feel physically sick after seeing what he said to the victims' families at the trial, he is disgusting, how could anyone romanticise him

[@faithlusinger2146]

oh TJ Lane trust me no one likes him he's a sub bottom we only like the other ones like Dylan and Eric and Richard Ramirez and stuff like that

[@jemima885ify]

faith lusinger and by Dylan and Eric I assume you mean the Columbine killers? Who murdered 13 innocent children and teachers? And Richard Ramirez the Night stalker who raped 11 people and murdered 14 others? Do you have no respect for the victims and their families? Imagine your child had been murdered by one of these people and there was sickos like you who romanticise them and call them by their first names as though you're friends. And clearly people do like TJ Lane, this video shows there are. You're saying "we only like them" as though they're any better than each other, they're all serial killers

[@faithlusinger2146]

actually Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are mass murderer not serial killers so and also I understand where you're coming from but I'm not hurting anyone with what I'm doing so

[@faithlusinger2146]

also there is so much more stuff that goes on this world and you're worrying about who we find attractive like people are starving in dying everyday but you guys are worried about who we find attractive like it's not like we're going out and killing people now there is a limit I wouldn't wear anything with serial killers faces on or nothing like that but by me in my bedroom on my laptop finding killers hot isnt hurting anyone like did you hear about how Donald Trump banned transgenders from the military or other stuff like starvation stuff and you're worried about me finding someone cute

[@jemima885ify]

faith lusinger Is the distinction between mass murder and serial killer really relevant here? And actually you're almost definitely hurting the victims and their families, and it's highly likely that mentally ill people who consider murder see that murderers are worshipped on tumblr and find that recognition a good enough reason to actually do it. It's not like this is something I campaign against in my life, it was relevant to the video.

[@kimberlygonzalez9911]

I used to work retail, and I had this guy come in and cuss me out right off the bat because we didnt have the brand of bread he wanted. I looked down at Bread Guy's shirt and say Manson. The words on the clothes, "I will return." And that, fellas, was the day I quit.

[@vickbash]

Although he's a fictional character, this just reminded me so much of the AHS Tate (from Murder House) fans. I really don't understand how people can love that type of person because they're "attractive". It's ridiculous

[@naranciaisbestboi125]

Same here. I love Evan Peters but I hate Tate with a burning passion. It doesn't matter how attractive someone is if they're a monster.

[@fandmtrash8895]

Same with Heathers. I hate JD with a passion, but I love the actor in the musical and movie. JD is a dick in the movie and he's a typical yandere in the musical.

[@ilikewatchingyoudostuff1525]

I liked Tate not for the awful things he did, but for his fear factor. All the ghosts and demons in the world couldn’t scare me more than someone who could be right next door to you, plotting to kill. It’s a terrifyingly realistic character, and I can appreciate that much.

[@TheAngelmisa]

Spaalonebabuguuscooties Agreed

[@lexisl8900]

I’m fucking in love with Tate’s character😂

[@thebirthofjackie8491]

the weirdest part of tumblr is the columbine imagines and edits.

[@Hannah-sr6qz]

I've seen people literally get tattoos that glorify the Columbine massacre. Like seriously, that is permanent and for the rest of their lives they will have it. Like. UGH. Buying serial killer "merch" is one thing but actually tattooing stuff glorifying a tragedy??????????????

[@idal278]

It is so scary. Like what the hell is going on in their heads. Truly sad

[@iCookieChan1]

I just graduated from Columbine this year and that is seriously f'd up... Passing by the memorial in the park every day makes me want to cry and knowing people fantasize about the shooting makes me want to vomit.

[@miarae7786]

Sorry what

[@youtubetrash3196]

TheBirthOfJackie Someone I know has a Columbine story on Wattpad. He's a little off...

[@seo9923]

This is my first video I've watched from you and I think this is good stuff. Subscribed.

[@SH-vg1dr]

Christine Seo Saaaame!

[@ronnie-v1u]

Same

[@chele9704]

BRO ME TOOO

[@seo9923]

haha yea thanks to recommendations

[@a.b.2909]

same, i've been staring at the thumbnail for a few days. glad i finally clicked on it. subscribed too

[@kyliecrownover6560]

I'm so glad you made a video on this. I've noticed that it's almost trendy to worship these monsters. How insensitive to the victims' families.

[@thecoral2388]

Killing Stalking, i'm looking at you

[@Dennden]

The Coral Pretty much.

[@luzifurr4329]

The Coral HOLY FUCK. we're bringing killing stalking into this

[@cydney29162]

Ok yeah killing stalking is definitely SOMETHING but we are talking about people romanticizing REAL people who killed other REAL people. This isn’t as bad as people reading a horror webcomic.

[@zatrat5696]

The Coral leave me alone! >:(

[@weenurdogs]

I don't like the ship or anything, I ONLY like it for the story cause I find it interesting. I get angry when people always think we are always romanticizing Sangwoo, I'M not. It's makes me upset as I ONLY want to enjoy the story.

[@lukasandrew1990]

It's really weird, there are many girls who romanticize killers, even fake ones like Jeff the Killer. I don't understand why they have so many fan girls. I actually used to know a girl who romanticized Jeff the Killer (I don't know if she did the same with real ones) and I asked her what's so appealing about him other than the creepy story aspect (I like a creepy story too but I'm not infatuated with the main character). She said that he's cute...umm if I remember correctly Jeff burned his eyes and bleached his skin...he wouldn't exactly be very cute in real life.

[@matchamorphosis]

True, I don't get the aspect of people romanticizing creepy pastas. There was a phase at my school were creep pastas like Slender Man and Jeff the Killer were like center of every girls fuck world. It was so fucking weird and it made me so fucking uncomfortable.

[@urinarytractinfection4508]

Oof, they're attracted to the anime version of the pasta's.

[@DoodleDoo2]

OH MY GOD. There’s a webtoon with Jeff the killer in which the main character falls in love with him and people are calling him cute and shit when he literally is holding her hostage and tries to kill her pet. I voiced my concerns and got downvoted to hell with people defending themselves saying how “people can romanticize subjective things” and how there’s a disclaimer and shit but like that doesn’t do shit. It’s so frustrating.

[@giniimartinii]

Do you ever think that these people who romanticize these killers, could be the future killers themselves? They obviously aren't right in the head. I find serial killers to be interesting as well, but I could never love a monster who've done sick/evil things.(wtf)

[@verinawrinn7175]

[In Coming Rant] You should never romantize real life killers. It's so insanely disrespectful to their victims. You can be fascinated with them (I love *learning* about serial killers), but don't idolize these people. Some people are apologetic to serial killers who had a rough past or suffered abuse, you know what? That explains *why* they killed people, it doesn't *excuse* that they killed people. They might have a very interesting motive, but that doesn't stop the fact that they did /kill/ people. Now romantizing fictional characters is different in my book. Why? Because they aren't real. So go ahead and be in love with Loki (I know I am). Or Lucifer from Supernatural (Shout out to Satan). Or Amara from Supernatural (She's so beautiful). Focus on those guys/girls!

[@emmarellda181]

Yass Loki is adorable (I still like Bucky more). And friggin Luci is so cute. Hello fellow Winchester!! Exactly they aren't real. But if they were I'd probably not be in love with them but they aren't so

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

I'm against both because of just how toxic those fangirls can get and how annoying it is when writers pander to them.

[@TheAngelmisa]

Verina Wrinn Agreed its ok to like Dio Brando(jojo's bizarre adventure) and sephiroth (ff7) and Griffith (berserk) Because those characters are not real they're fictional. But people falling in love with real life serial killers is sick and disgusting and it makes me vomit.

[@TheAngelmisa]

OpalRoars I hate serial killers fangirls. They make me sick.

[@matchamorphosis]

@OpalRoars that doesn't mean anything. Killing someone is a choice and they gladly took it, no matter if they were abused.

[@sarah-xe3lk]

I'm sorry that it doesnt have anything to do with the amazing video but GIRL YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL LIKE WHAT HOW

[@sabrinalynn9302]

here's an idea for the edgy tumblr users: how about we memorialize omar mateen? wait, what do you mean its "different"? just because that was lgbt+ violence? i bet that if anyone dared to make those kind of comments about the orlando shooting, or any hate crimes in general, then that would be "disrespectful". yeah, you get what i'm saying?

[@flamingmonkeyheads]

honestly that’s one of the best ways to put it, everyone on tumblr practically worships the lgtbqa+ community (not saying i dislike them, i’m bisexual myself) and if anyone dare hurt someone who’s part of it they lose their fucking minds

[@muon1]

I go on Tumblr often and I just wanna say people are getting a little bit confused This "serial killer community" is a minority and i've never seen people that are sane try to justify murder. I think a lot of people are confused about this

[@Jenny-l8r]

Not trying to justify people’s weird glorification of murderers but I feel like talking about the Orlando shooter is different because it’s more recent than say the Manson murders??? It doesn’t really have anything to do with lgbtq+ but I see your point!

[@Carolineeexo]

pepole "love" dylan becouse he was "romantic" and in his jornal he was saying "I just want to be loved" or something like that..i think its stupid cuz if you were in the columbine shooting and he had a gun to you head.. would he spare you? prob not

[@ayyylmao101]

xXItxBexJoeyXx He spared a few people... but that was depending on their race, and he killed people in their stead. What is wrong with these people?

[@xXSkyifyXx]

My dad’s friend’s brother was preyed on by Gacy, he was so close to being taken by him. Seeing people wearing a shirt with him on it disgusts me. He was sick, he kidnapped so many.

[@TheAngelmisa]

SkyBlue I can't believe dumbass fangirls love real life serial killers.. And Gacy is ugly.

[@biancablake1999]

maybe some of these people have some sort of fetish for dangerous relationships or get a thrill from being in danger kind of like an extreme version of getting excitement from watching horror movies.

[@kaspbrakie]

Many are hybristophiles

[@sophroniel]

I think people build up these imagined fictional personas of serial killers, and I think the crucial thing is that it is a *fiction*, and it just goes too far. There's a certain kind of villain in fiction that people are often attracted to (and the resulting saviour-complex you mentioned, aka "I could save them with my love!"), and the true-crime aspect is one step from real-person fanfic, to me, in terms of creepiness and being not-okay. I think it's an interesting psychological study of the *people themselves* who are attracted or obssessed with serial killers; it appears to be almost a special kind of delusion where they ignore these awful things in reality, in favour of someone's looks or some imagined skills. Same diff as those people who penpal people on death row ... I don't say this to shame people who do this, but the decision to become involved in romanticizing real-life killers is just soooo far removed from reality, imo, and these people need to step back and actually address that these real people committed terrible things, and should not be glorified. Idk if that makes sense

[@ruthigailthompson1327]

Sophia McIntyre-Grey I don't think being penpals with someone on death row is necessarily romanticizing a killer. Many people in death row have actually been found innocent. I think their motivation is less from romanticism and more just them trying to comfort and be a friend to someone who will most likely be dead in a couple of years.

[@zombreon6021]

I wouldn't wear a shirt with a murderer's face on it but when one of my friends does it, it always strikes up an interesting conversation about a serial killer I knew nothing about

[@valeriaalmqvist6284]

I agree with everything you're saying, I know people who idolize serial killers and it's just like???????????? it's such a stupid trend of wanna be edgy people

[@hahaeggplanet12]

I agree with everything you say, in addition to that, I'd like to make a point: I'm guessing most of the people who romanticize serial killers are fed up with the people around them , and in general are not happy with their life. Maybe they are bullied, maybe they can't find anyone to enjoy life with, maybe they are just living a very miserable life, and they might be blaming that on other people. Literally all their rational thoughts might have flown away somewhere. They might be in a state where they just want to take revenge from these people who never gave them happiness but sadness instead. They need help, like the serial killers. And if they don't get that help, they might just end up admiring these people, these people might even become their heros (hell, they might become a serial killer themselves). But then again, there are these other people who romanticize them because they might want to attract attention, be different, or just can't separete reality from fiction. (plus they might be real sickos)

[@isobellally3923]

I’m glad you put this because what this video fails to mention is that it is actually a mental disorder called hybristophilia

[@sotsu618]

Same people: Ted Bundy is interesting! I don’t like him though Tumblr girls: hhrhhhhnghh daddy Bundy beat me with your crowbar

[@dianeyoung2666]

yes. yES. YES! thank you i'm so tired of everyone romanticizing or even idolizing serial killers. like what is wrong with people?

[@JustMySelfBro]

Awkward Hamster isnt marilyn manson the musical one

[@jess-di1zb]

FranRS Charles Manson made music too, but yes Marylin Manson does make music and his name was inspired by Charles Manson I believe

[@AurumGolds]

I am in the creepypasta fandom and Loki fandom but that is fictional so it harms no one but when you forget not everything is fictional you become these people they forget the reality of the situation. Like people that ship real people and forget that rubbing that in their faces and yelling things at their real significant other hurts them. DONT FORGET THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FICTION AND REALITY!

[@Valentine-kx7fk]

Look up the slender man murders.

[@chaoticneutralsheep]

Alexander The Great, yep and the murders for that anime death note and many more, I know there are guys that killed for their "waifu's", some people have difficulty telling the difference between fiction and reality, usually because they have other issues in their life and family/friends that are supposed to talk it out with aren't there or instead give them the motivation.

[@Valentine-kx7fk]

Chaotic Neutral there’s also the example of Jaws: after Jaws came out, people went on a shark killing frenzy and caused fairly stable shark populations to severely plummet. Fiction does affect reality and that’s something people need to stop denying.

[@chaoticneutralsheep]

Alexander The Great, can't deny that, sometimes people get informed about the world through fiction because that's all the education they have on the subject, and negative ideas even if they're fake seem to always stay there. I know as a kid me and my friend idealised the book lolita and she began flirting with a teacher, I realised it bothered me so I talked it out with her because I didn't want it to continue and see her get hurt and thankfully nothing came of it.

[@mkultragrl]

The creepypasta fandom is the only fandom I regret to be in. Like these pre-teen girls are making these pastel edits on creepypasta and killers was just weird. It's even more disturbing is that they would self insert fantasies fanfictions with the killers (which I read some until I realized I was reading shit grammar). Like I know that it's just creepypastas but still have a weird factor to them.

[@vanessa-eo2xp]

this comment section and channel has so much class, i love how everyone respects one another and has a story to tell. really good i wish the rest of youtube was like this.

[@LaurenMca]

I'm autistic and follow some blogs about autism. I hate how people list famous people that were (or might have been) autistic. Like there are so many awesome good hearted people with autism, why celebrate the few horrible people with the condition?

[@Amytheproject]

Lauren M hugs ! Stay strong homie .

[@202cardline]

Yes, you have these deluded people messing up tags that should be filled with many great people, stories, works, and characters, but tumblr has this issue with one niche community bringing a lot of people down. I don't think they mean to, but it doesn't make it okay.

[@splatterfarm]

There is actually a girl who collects Columbine merch. She has pillow cases and mugs with Eric Harris's face on it. It's crazy.

[@simpleplanfan27]

Hailey Weaver is that Lynn Ann? She's crazy.

[@dianamrzljak9799]

Hailey Weaver my friend used to be like that, and she got reported at our school for wearing a columbine shirt

[@splatterfarm]

Sniffles yess!! That's her

[@miserable6623]

Who would wanna sleep on a racist pencil with an octagon face??

[@doubleh333lix]

Hailey Weaver YUCK

[@ashleyr1787]

I do have an “obsession” with serial killers. I think it’s crazy the double lives they live or lived, yet never once have I thought about how attractive they are, that’s messed up

[@gabriellagarcia3996]

i think most people who wear serial killer shirts are just trying to channel their edgy macabre tumblr aesthetic

[@edenpffen]

Gabriella Garcia The girl who made the video is wearing a serial killer shirt the fuck

[@phant0m0th_]

You can have a blog like that and not be obsessed with mass murderers, serial killers, rapists, pedophiles, etc. Its horrifying tbh

[@gabriellagarcia3996]

yes, i find it in bad taste

[@aporue5893]

that is not an aesthetic

[@AdamLambertMyIdol101]

I'm in the true crime community and I agree with most of what your saying

[@plasmodom1403]

same

[@flamingomingo9810]

Victoria Carrick so then why are you in the true crime community...

[@AdamLambertMyIdol101]

Flamingo Mingo because I enjoy learning about killers and their motives

[@AdamLambertMyIdol101]

Juliet Capulet I totally love most of the community like they're all really respectful but you get the odd person who decides to dress up as Eric and visit the memorial it's so ridiculous

[@Emilyh-bo5bd]

Man there was this girl that went to my school who was actually in love with the boys who did columbine, and it was wild. I’m so glad my friend turned her in and showed her page about them to my principle about the time.

[@breaa5933]

I used to be obsessed witch reading about columbine and I became so sympathetic towards dylan (not Eric at all) and now I've grown out of it. For me, I was severely depressed and I felt like "if only I could have known him and I could have told him I'm sad too but look at me I don't hurt anyone! Let's love each other and overcome these bad times"....it's sad because I felt so lonely for about a year that I felt like I needed to find someone troubled to fix. I befriended boys who used hard drugs and cut themselves (I've never done either), and I would flirt with them and try to get them to stop being so negative. I'd say things like "but I think your great" or "you're so smart" and now that I'm a 20 year old woman I realize I was trying to make myself feel better by convincing myself I could "cure" other people. I'm glad I got help for my depression and I no longer seek out toxic people. I think for many of these women that romanticize the columbine guys for example are extremely emotionally immature like I was. We can only hope they grow past it and realize that you can't fix dangerous people!!! And it's not going to improve your life to do so. I'm willing to discuss this with anyone interested. It's not the same for every female with a killer obsession but I think a lot of them are the same as i was. Not dangerous or "mental" just broken.

[@AnnieBVB]

I really don't think people fully understand that most of these killers have anti social personality disorder, one of the most severe mental illnesses there are. These people don't have a way of understanding like normal people do. They do not process normal human emotions. Every interaction is a step to a goal they have, they are master manipulators and will say whatever you want to hear. So when people say I could change them with the love I would give them that's a very distorted way of thinking. You will not change who these people are, they will just use you, dump you and make you feel like you have done something wrong. Basically, people don't know wtf theyre talking about with this kind of shit. You can't save someone when there's nothing to save.

[@kaizerkeller]

Skull Trash they're not saying everyone with antisocial personality disorder are serial killers, but that most serial killers have that mental illness. Plus serial killers don't get their mental issues treated.

[@shabnaks8893]

antisocial personality disorder is just like any other; there isn't a single way to define it because it's different for everybody. i'm diagnosed with aspd and i don't care enough to bother manipulating people, and generalizing it as such is a bit...gross, honestly. i'd still throw myself in front of a bus for my friends, even if i don't feel anything when talking to or being around them. people with aspd don't always actively seek to manipulate people, because as you said yourself; we don't feel. we have nothing to gain from putting you down. we don't care enough about you, your life, or our own well-being to take lengths and waste energy on something like that. however, on the extreme side, there are people who do that. they know and recognize that something's not right and they seek to be able to feel. when typical methods don't work, they go to greater lengths (manipulation, crime, etc) to make themselves understand emotion on the same level everybody else does. but this is absolutely not what everybody with the disorder does, despite what society may tell you. you seem to be confusing aspd with the general behavior associated with napd, another notable disorder for manipulative and cruel people. bottom line, you know what aspd is, but you only recognize the stigma surrounding it. don't say shit like this unless you fully know what you're talking about.

[@mickeym00]

This was in my Up Next after one of Bobby Burns' videos and I love your thought process and how real you are with your audience. I'M SUBBING (:

[@sarahhawkinson]

ahh thanks so much!

[@ZipperT93]

reminds me of murder memorabilia. when people basically by stuff that was evidence in a crime whether it was famous or not. ex. selling a bin that had acid in it from Dahmer. (not sure if the T shirts in this video would be categorized under this) idk if it was a country wide (US) or worldwide phenomenon but a lot of people I met that had the interest in serial killers ( i used to read up on a few) was due to the fact they wanted to go into law enforcement or be an FBI profiler. the ones just going into like policing and state stuff were doing it to see if there was a pattern they could see and identify if they saw it at a case they worked. Or, liked mentioned in this video, they had an interest/going into psychology as their degree. the people that are romanticizing them sound like people who would marry them in prison. even though half of them fit the killer's victims to a T.

[@makutas-v261]

I know right, for the killers they would be mere toys.

[@UrrmmWut...]

Zak Bagans from ghost adventures buys as much of this crap as he can and now has a museum for u to go see it so all the young easily influenced ppl who watch his show now think these ppl are cool for doing horrible things and Zak is not realizing the actual impact he is having over these children.

[@pikalove8201]

WTF people I don't think there's anything wrong with him having a museum, it actually sounds kind of cool.

[@UrrmmWut...]

pikalove can I ask how old u r by chance? I love ghost adventures but I don't thk him making these items cool is a good thg for society maybe if he was donating some money to victims then I would b into it...

[@UrrmmWut...]

pikalove I don't mean anything rude vy asking ur age just curious

[@d.m7176]

I'm in the true crime community and I totally agree with you. Wearing serial killer merchandise is completely disrespectful to the victims and the family's victims, but having a post card is okay in my opinion. I have a blog about Jeffrey Dahmer, but I do not make stupid edits of him or romanticize them. My blog is about research on him, his case, and the psychology behind it. I don't condone his actions because his case is interesting. like how dare you romanticize and celebrate a school shooter because you like their face. It's okay to be interested but it is completely not okay to have a crush on them. it's disgusting! edit: I agree with the last part. We should honor the victims and the people who have encountered those monsters. I've even came across Richard Ramirez's niece on instagram. We talked about regular things, and I told her how I respected her strength. She has to deal with knowing she was related to a complete monster and she has to remember all the comments he made about her and her body. she was a nice lady and apparently she came in contact with one of the relatives of one of the victims (I prefer not to disclose their names for their privacy, they've been through enough) and apologized for everything.

[@PixieRosewood]

That part where you talked about the "saviour complex" thing, I get where you come from, but these ppl mean it like "he's a bad boy, but I, and I alone, can fix him, because he's secretly sweet and I'm special enough to see it" it's a classic girl fantasy on a disturbing scale, same thing happens with fictional serial killers like Slenderman and Jeff the Killer, but that's not as bad since they're not real, but these killers are real, and these girls take their fantasies to a whole new scale of wrong. All comes down to wanting to f*ck the monster or the bad boy, and this is a two birds, one stone situation for them.

[@k4ylaaaaa]

It fucking disgusts me that people fantasize over Eric and Dylan.

[@GrayWoIf]

You know what disgust me more is how they treat the mother of one of them so badly saying it was all her fault and the poor lady has focused her whole life since then to make sure this never happens again and people just put her down like she had personally killed everyone.

[@mynameswhatsername6952]

GrayWoIf plus theyre ugly as shit no offense- on the inside and outside.

[@k4ylaaaaa]

GrayWolf I agree, Sue Klebold shouldn't have been blamed