Should Marvel Rivals Have Role Lock? ft. Samito

[@Bt341]

This was not a problem in the beta in my experience it’s a way bigger problem now because they added SEVEN DPS and only 1 tank and 1 healer on support

[@Deusaga]

Literally the single biggest issue that caused many problems down the chain that has plagued OW since launch and MR made the same mistake :/

[@avariciousgaming1695]

From the leaks, future heroes should be a bit Vanguard/support heavy for at least a couple of seasons.

[@Dew-b8b]

The number of options isn't as relevant as you think, doing dmg is just more desirable than tanking or healing in most games

[@Deusaga]

@@Dew-b8b I argue it's much more relevant than you think. Yeah, there will be more dps players still if all roles are even, but having way more options in the other roles WILL have a big impact on the playerbase of saidroles. It's statistically certain that the role with 2x more heroes will have way more players. This is a hero shooter first and foremost. You are attracted to certain heroes, not necessarily the role. You're not a dps main, you're a genji/tracer main etc. And if the other roles had way more heroes, there's way more chance for a player to find a hero they enjoy in those roles. This is especially the case in MR where many players already have their favourite marvel heroes. BUT that is the case in 6 v 6. The fact the tank is solo in OW2 makes the role unbearable to play for so many, even if there are heroes in it you love. I LOVE Reinhardt, he's my favourite hero. I can't stand playing him in 5 v 5.. For example.

[@plaqued9526]

​@@Dew-b8b its extremely relevant. The content of the game is the heroes. Thats why it's called a hero shooter. Significantly more heroes in a role = more content to consume. Thats where the players will be.

[@TomRakewell527]

Casual players aren’t playing to win??? That seems silly to me. Casual players maybe don’t know how to win, but who doesn’t want to win the game they’re playing?

[@jaded-harper]

its the degrees they are willing to go to win. most low ranked players would rather just chill on their fav hero then swap to what the team needs/wants

[@reizka1866]

@@jaded-harper And that's exactly why we need role que.

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@reizka1866No, that’s why YOU need role queue

[@timmysdad4741]

When other aspects of the game besides winning are enjoyable, many players don’t mind taking a loss/not giving it their all for the sake of personal enjoyment of the game

[@DxXNA]

People don't play to win in call of duty. Some people only care about KDR and crushing the enemies. To them winning is whatever. There's also definitely people who just want to enjoy certain super heroes they grew up liking and probably never played an objective based game before.

[@SadTennesseeMan]

This game suffers from the same issue that plagues most hero shooters in that the support and tank pool are significantly smaller than the damage hero pool. It's especially amplified in a game like this where the characters are comic book characters. I know people who are only playing one character because it's their favorite character, and if it were in a different role, they would play that role just because their character is in that role. The support and tank pools need to be expanded, and they need to be made more fun for players who aren't used to that style of play. Do what Overwatch did with Doomfist and shift Wolverine to the tank role.

[@diamonshade7484]

Facts like why is it so off balanced, ow1 has a excuse because of the defense heroes but in siege6 you don't have access to offense and defense agents in the same round

[@diamonshade7484]

Yeah give me tank Wolverine with like 450hp with bleeds, attack speed buff and some regen and he could be a menace

[@gamist8166]

Doom fist going tank wasn't successful for the doom players is all I can think. Let's pls not forget how much worse that hero felt after switching

[@TheMeerpants]

Nobody wants to admit that tanking is just unfun for a lot of people. I personally enjoy playing tank, but it's a completely different style of play from DPS. It just doesn't vibe with a lot of people

[@nightfalltavion9936]

To a degree. I planned to main strange but he's boring

[@lxyacht]

Paladins low key been solving the problems of the genre and no one gives them credit. They had anti heal and global regen first.

[@guilhermedecarvalhofernand1629]

Mega true

[@ramsey-x2u]

Never played it but my brother does and I do hear good things about it. Seems to be a very overlooked shooter.

[@guilhermedecarvalhofernand1629]

@@ramsey-x2u the game solved lots of the problems of the genre but created others due to hihez management and bugs, lots of bugs. it can be a lot of fun althought has its flaws.

[@wf_vyzor]

hirez killed paladins. It had the potential to be as fun as marvel rivals while being as competitive as OW

[@notan3144]

Ana predates Paladins.

[@personamusicintensifies6341]

"Hela does 20% more damage when thor is on her team" They need to make it clear in the game that all the anchor heroes PERMANENTLY have their buff, meaning Hela always does 20% more damage for the whole season

[@DjNaste]

Or make it so she actually only has 20% more damage with Thor on her team.

[@DarthCookieOW]

@@personamusicintensifies6341 ngl these seasonal hero buffs are stupid af.

[@personamusicintensifies6341]

@@DarthCookieOW Yeah, it means some characters will have a huge drop in power when the season ends. The teamups should be active only when both heroes are on the team

[@diamonshade7484]

​@@DjNasteor loki

[@demifolk8940]

@@DarthCookieOWliterally the dumbest thing ive ever seen, i think its supposed to be some sort of solution of mixing up the meta with doing balance changes on characters. but its so stupid, confusing, applies only to team-up anchors for whatever reason. i have no idea why they did that. actually just thought of anothet reason as i was typing that makes sense. its done so people feel motivated to play those anchors in situations where they switch. but that can be avoided… by just giving them passive effects anyway instead of it being permanently on

[@ewww21]

A problem that killed MMOs was every player wanting to be self sufficient and no one wanting to play healer or tank, because they lack a little agency and you can't make plays. Because of that they started making DPS more self sufficient and you know what that leads to? Everyone just picking a DPS that could heal.

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

Disagred, guild wars 2 figured out the problem with their buff stacking system. Everyone just give something to the team and bring utilities. Though, they also made healer waaaay more fun than traditionnal mmo healer due to the absence of frame healing and combo spelling.

[@Richard-yj4zr]

Ive noticed people role fill in casual more than ranked. In ranked a lot of people have an ego and expect their teammates to conform to them and then only. God forbid u nicely ask a Dps with 0 kills to swap at the half way point. (3 max per role is all i would do)

[@Jessespresso]

It's more likely that players in ranked are picking the characters they're most comfortable/best with where as in casual they're willing to try a new role to fill whatever gap needs filling. Which fundamentally comes down to the game being the issue, not the players. Hero based shooters are always going to have this problem when they make roles so distinct from each other. They need overlay to give each character something for everyone to enjoy (usually that's damage)

[@thomasforrest7380]

​@@Jessespressowhy que ranked just to lock in 4 dps and be bad though I had a game where we had 4 dps and 3 of them combined barely broke even with the 1 good dps on our team

[@mariushager9983]

​@@thomasforrest7380 its the same issue in casual for me. I love to play dps but like 80% of the time im stuck with tank or support because the 5th dps is really not needed. Getting a lot more damage as the tank than most dps in my teams is just stupid. Everyone has an ego imo. They wanna play the fun role. Not the one thats gonna win you the game

[@tilting_cat3344]

some comp funnily work like the 3 dps 3 strategist

[@muckdriver]

People want to see "how far can I go" or get good at the hero they lock. In OW I only care to climb tank with dva, dps ashe/mei, and support with kiriko/brig. In quickplay it's what I want to have fun with.

[@fakenickib6245]

Samito the whole time thinking “Can i put this guy in 1.75x speed?”

[@FatMCSteve]

I'm thinking maybe a min 1 max 3 or at least give everyone passive regen Playing in a 4+ duelist comp is just miserable

[@Daveyjonesvi]

I agree with the 1 min 3 max. It gives the team the most flexibility and a bit of structure. It would guarantee 3 players play the role they want and not throw filling the gap of what’s needed.

[@SpaceCowBoyRay]

Game is fine as is and this is coming from a flex player that got top 500 in the beta

[@Notllamalord]

4+ duelists is just TDM, feels awful

[@Javano_]

I think "3 max" is a great place to start. Guarantees you'll more-than-likely have at least one of each role, in the majority of games.

[@brenthazelton6891]

At first i wanted role que, but as ive been playing more i think 3 max would be a better fit if they wanted to go that route. Im not screaming to the moon for it, but 5 dps 1 support is just not a good time

[@LouiseBelcher69]

Role lock is a terrible idea for several reasons: 1. If you're not skilled with a particular character and want to switch, you're stuck, which essentially means you're throwing the game. 2. If you're locked into a healer role but struggle with it, you're forced to endure bs on mic from teammates. 3. If you're playing DPS and fat fingers accidentally choose the wrong character, you're stuck with that pick for the entire match. 4. Implementing role lock feels like reverting to Overwatch's design philosophy, which stunts growth and innovation. That's how I see it.

[@QRIO44]

On the part talking about chokes: I do want to say, map destruction helps. It opens up more avenues, and even can widen many of the existing chokes! It’s a feature too young so we haven’t seen the full potential.

[@DangleSan]

Could u imagine if it reaches a "the finals" level of destruction variety

[@SoI_Badguy]

Also the ability of certain characters to destroy the environment is a cool niche some could fill. Venom tears up walls.

[@megamecha100]

Very smart comment

[@TheGingerjames123]

It gets very chaotic very quickly, there is a reason cs maps stick to the 3 lane layout. In paladins they had 3 lanes with 2 flank routes on each lane(which lead behind the chokes), worked pretty well imo

[@waynetec13]

@@QRIO44 stage destruction makes chokes obsolete. In many cases, you can simply go a little further away, and tear down a wall or even a whole building and just go through the new hole.

[@thegloatingstorm8323]

My favorite part about this game is pressing the “play” button and getting to play the game almost immediately. The thing I hate most about OW is sitting for a QUICK play game and waiting like 2-5 minutes for one match

[@gabrielsalahi3656]

Well that doesn’t really have to do with the game

[@lukasg4807]

Really? I don't mind queue times at all within reason. It's fun to play silly modes with your friends while you wait

[@ronramen5827]

I think part of that is it being a new game. Queue times will increase as people inevitably drop the game.

[@fahadsky]

Enjoy it while it lasts ig

[@Ziggyvu]

Better than 5 dps on one tram

[@shapshane8241]

26:05 hela doesnt do 20% more damage when loki is on her team, she always has the 20% buff as she is a season anchor, other anchors like hawkeye(20%dmg)and rocket raccoon (5% healing) are always active for the season regardless of whether the teamups are active

[@chaos9790]

that's insane

[@petermarsigliano2775]

it’s not 20% buff it’s 10%

[@yuh_19]

@@petermarsigliano2775it’s a 20% damage boost, look at it again

[@thebman468]

@@petermarsigliano2775hela’s is a 20%.

[@StriveFPS]

Oh… I see.

[@Middaylantern]

While I like the idea of passive healing, I think the lack of it is actually balanced. It encourages the team to stay together and it makes it feel worth it to chase someone down who is out of position. Passive healing actually feels bad as the player who has the advantage because it feels like you can secure the kill with good play. Passive healing just makes it feel like nothing dies. Passive healing was a mistake imo.

[@hiimnifty3625]

I personally think that while it's certainly not a fix all sort of solution, that Marvel Rivals on its own does hold the unique position that they can make tanks and supports that are popular characters in their universe and that should help mitigate these problems. Like for example say wolverine is an extremely popular character and a lot of people want to play him. If they want to slay out as wolverine, they are likely to just pick him anyways, so if they had made him a tank more people would I assume naturally play the tank role because of him alone. (Or the idea of any one character in their lore being a tank or support)

[@jeromenancyfr]

@@hiimnifty3625 It may slightly improve numbers, but I don't think a lot of people will continue doing something they don't like just because the character skin match one of their favourite hero. If Hulk or Wolverine are not buffed, they will slowly disappear at mid and high level.

[@hiimnifty3625]

@jeromenancyfr So then just buff them?..

[@jeromenancyfr]

@@hiimnifty3625 Not that easy, if you buff tanks and supports to have as much personal impact as a DPS, in addition to the defensive value of a support/tank, then the game become unbalanced, and you may even get people to play the character with no respect to the intended role.

[@hiimnifty3625]

@@jeromenancyfr Dude first off I said my opinion mitigates and not fixes. You literally preset a problem I offered the correct solution. It is as simple as buffing them it's also as simple as not overbuffing them it's seriously not hard. Basic game balance theory and you'd know this.

[@jeromenancyfr]

@hiimnifty3625 Yes it is not hard, just look at all those balanced multiplayer games, or all those games where everybody love to play supports and tanks

[@aaron8977]

One of the most appealing things to me is getting to control marvel characters I love, and it has a nice mix of characters I’ve never even really heard of

[@ZachStarAttack]

I just wish there was some kind of looking for group feature like there was an OverWatch so you can ask for supports

[@Paul-zh2jp]

incentivizing stacks if not having a full team queue would make any competitive game better. much better social and gameplay experience. wish games did this more. solo queue is just 1v11

[@polkafucker]

omg you're the zato guy

[@Sporkyz74]

​@@polkafuckerI know right? millia guy 2.0 plays marvel rivals apparently

[@ZachStarAttack]

@@polkafucker yo what's up man It's nice to meet a fan. Thank you for recognizing me and telling me that

[@ZachStarAttack]

@@Sporkyz74 Yes I do play it. I am trying to learn Thor because no one fucking plays tank but yeah. I'm enjoying this. by the way my main game now is rivals of aether II as it makes strve look horrible in every way And they don't do things like nerfing my main for 400 days straight leaving him in bottom tier

[@Javano_]

I think Samito seriously overestimates how much of an issue queue times are for 90% of the player base. No matter how you design the game, new/average elo players will *never* have problems finding games. Queue times only start becoming a "barrier to entry" once you approach high ranks (~top 10%), where the matchmaker starts to have a harder time finding players of a similar skill level. As long as the game has a healthy player base, Bronze/Silver Jimmy is *never* going to encounter significant queue times (unless he's queueing from South Africa, at 3AM).

[@DarthCookieOW]

According to MR, I am in the top 2.5% of the playerbase, and I rarely have to wait longer than a couple of seconds for a game, lol. Sure, role queue would increase the queue times a bit, but I'd take that any day over having no Supports or just a single Tank who flexed onto the role and doesn't play well.

[@Agitatedform]

My q times in ow2 at silver rank were 6+ minutes for DPS and support. The estimated times were never correct.

[@coolshirtkid]

yeah i always say people seriously overrate how bad queue times are in games, better quality matches are way more important than queue times to me personally, im fine with waiting 10+ min for a match that doesnt suck especially in games that punish you for leaving early when the game is already lost on character select

[@HasturBeta]

I'm in bronze 5 in Overwatch 2 and my average queue time for dps is 35-45 minutes for a game that barely lasts 15. I'm positive I could get better an climb out of this rank, but I both don't have the time an don't think it's worth the time tthat would be needed. Ironically, it would just be faster to say goodbye to all my skins an start a new account than try to play an climb

[@br3d9]

​@@HasturBeta bro play qo until you get better cuase there is NO WAY your ques are that long unless you are actually bottom 500

[@kennethmartin6349]

People have been asking for how long for 6v6 in Overwatch they bring it back and now no one is playing Overwatch it seems

[@michaelc7418]

Min 1: Max 3 would be very nice for Marvel Rivals, in addition to an All Heroes HP Regen Passive. I feel like these 2 things together would reduce 1-sided matches quite a bit.

[@bryceroberts1049]

Then its just a race to lock duelist and you get rolled anyway because the ones who locked duelists are dog water

[@elesu5129]

Id argue that its still healthier then 6 dps ​@bryceroberts1049

[@bryceroberts1049]

@@elesu5129 i just dont understand the reluctance to go role lock. How is role lock not just the correct answer? None of the arguments are compelling in my opinion

[@sharktos3218]

​@@bryceroberts1049As someone who enjoyed it in overwatch, I can give you several arguments. The game plays vastly different and sometimes you don't actually want 2 tanks. Some tanks play more like DPS and some like real protectors anyway. Sometimes your other tank is doing fine but you need to switch to Punisher because nobody is addressing the Ironman. Certain teamup abilities wouldn't be fully possible anymore. Games will take longer to get into. I am willing to sometimes flex to support if we need it, but I would never fully queue as just support and I bet there are many more. There are just not enough options for support and tank yet to lock us into these roles. And at last, it makes it so much easier for a meta to form. We want to avoid that.

[@elijahpanama4731]

​@@sharktos3218Thank you. We DONT NEED A META.

[@YeshuaMyGod]

No, they should just grant 5-10 chrono tokens to players who fill the recommended role at the beginning of the game and stay in that role for the entirety of the match.

[@Rohndogg1]

And an additional bonus if you win the match.

[@RemedieX]

Horrible idea, OW tried something like this. It ruined comp far more than it helped. Tons of people will "flex" as the DPS equivalent of those roles and essentially throw, never swap, and lose you more games than you know. C'mon people, every idea you can come up with has already been tried and failed.

[@pixelbomb7248]

@@RemedieX Its almost as if it was a joke.

[@YeshuaMyGod]

@@RemedieX It is different, it doesn’t lock you in, only incentivizes you to play other roles. Also, it would be tied to only 1 ranking system. So if you throw on tank, your dropping down on everything. You got any better ideas?

[@error404webpagenotfound]

​@@RemedieX yes but ow would give you 1 lootbox, which is arguably more of a reward than 5 or 10 chrono tokens for the BP. So it was more rewarding to get 1 lootbox playing a role you don't care about than getting 5 or 10 tokens doing the same. Ow still does the same with xp for playing flex, but it's not as incentive to a lot of people bc it's not a significant amount of xp tbh. I play Cloak and Dagger so it's not really a problem for me, I feel like it's a bigger issue to people that play dps or tank bc then the team has no healing and it's easier to have no dps or no tank and you can still win if played smart. Now I can't 100% garuntee that's the issue for them bc I play supp so I've not played a game with no supports yet. The rare games where I wanna play Squirrel Girl, there's always someone willing to play supp. I see people switch around most of the time eventually.

[@Steve1821]

A global regen passive will have the opposite effect because DPS players will need healers even less but tanks will still have an utterly miserable time without a dedicated healer. It will give DPS an excuse not to pick strategist. It will also incentivise DPS players to play away from the team because they dont need to dip back for heals. What we need are more vanguards and healers to pick from and more importantly they need to be more fun to play. The only way a global regen passive could potentially work is a coherency system like darktide but that's a huge change to gameplay that would take the game in a different direction and not necessarily for the best.

[@DarthCookieOW]

I feel like there are exactly three archetypes of comps that work in MR: 1-3-2 2-2-2 3-0-3 You at least need one Tank and you NEED two Supports at least. If these criteria are not fulfilled in your team but the enemy team has that, it's gg go next. Role queue sounds like an interesting idea to try out for sure

[@TaOPyr]

I won many 1-4-1 as Cloak&Dagger solo strategist. Mostly with solo Captain America.

[@MrBreakdownx]

Dont sleep on 4-2. Theres more then enough dps that can sustain themselves and are brawly.

[@reecelee5218]

Probably need to nerf heals to an extent. That's mainly why you need 2. If you nerf heals (but up their dmg/self heal) having 1 healer vs 2 isn't as noticeable cause dmg and poke outlast the heals.

[@reecelee5218]

Maybe heals go on a total health percentage of max first flat rate. Like I want to be able to keep my tank up. But also don't think I should be able to just sustain a Punisher thru 3 people on him.

[@BobFauci]

I've actually been having lots of success on 0-3-3. Supports are strong enough that you can technically not have a Tank in many situations.

[@protopotato979]

I think for magnetos bubble, he should have the bubble he uses(personal or team) be a twelve second cooldown, but the other one be a 6 second cooldown, but using it while the first is still on cooldown makes them both go on cooldown for 12.

[@WolfgangBrozart]

If they want it to be a casual game then they need to remove ranked mode. If they do keep competitive, then I want a way to queue for the role I want to play. If I want to be dps then I'll wait in line.

[@Popotato7777]

Only good take i saw on this was, Realth's months ago, they tried everything on OW but the only thing that helped was adding more characters to that role, tho they absolutly need better designs for the roles and a way the game should be played in their mind,

[@unbidabyss2903]

Streamers bitching about hitching their business to one videogame will always grate on my nerves. If you don't want your audience, without which you have nothing, asking you to do things, don't become known for one thing / one game I guess.

[@sillybilly4710]

Yeah dawg, Samito’s ‘role queue’ idea would get abused so much, because you can always change your intention vs what you actually do. You can SAY you intend to play tank but then just lock DPS every game. Great. Another team with 5 duelists asking eachother to swap

[@boopdeeb9444]

Some players will abuse it, but that's still better than it is currently where the matchmaking just group 6 random players. At least in role queue, there will still be players who queue properly, which results in better matches overall. Also, queueing for tank but then playing dps in game is bad for that player too. They'll end up playing dps in games without tank or support. Not a great experience for the player that abuse the system.

[@paulakroy2635]

League has this system and isn’t abused. Plus testing this system out is better than just auto role queue

[@Raytheman581]

@@paulakroy2635 League is also more toxic than any game out there.

[@beeree14]

Ofc if you are gonna use that extreme as an example then trolls are bound to be everywhere. As another commenter mentioned, LoL has a similar role queue without role lock. This issue is not that prevalent if at the end of the day, the individual player wants to win the game.

[@nathanielking8233]

@@paulakroy2635 I would think the difference is that you can’t swap champions in League. If you are building Blitzcrank as a support, you can’t suddenly decide to play ADC because your Vayne is 0-10. I know it’s not quite the same as what’s being discussed but role preference is problematic either way.

[@spr1ngcactu5]

I dont understand the logic of "you can play what you want" as the reason for ONLY open queue and not having role queue as another option. If you want to play what you want shouldnt you go with role queue? Then you can play the role and hero you want. Only 1 other player can steal your hero. In open queue you often get in a role standoff where you have to either get ROFLSTOMPED for not having any tanks or healers, having to switch to a role you didnt want, and 5 other players can take your preferred hero rather than 1.

[@gregjross852]

I’ve learned just like in WoW dps players can be rather obnoxious. I love healing but if I end up being the only strategist in my comp I’m more likely going to be panic healing the tanks while running from whoever is harassing me with zero support from another strategist while all the dps just refuse to switch off. Legit had some dude apologize to me yesterday after he complained and I switched off strategist only for him to go from 3 deaths to 14. Been playing support roles long enough to know most of the time it’s not your fault rather it’s the DPs Who just like to zuggzugg without a care in the world thinking they have a permanent pocket healer.

[@brigasm]

This guy is right. I play for Marvel and not because overwatch mechanics. I would not have touched the game if it wasn’t Marvel.

[@jameoww]

IMO they could just have a preference queue, where you just flag your role preferences and it doesn't try to balance it, it just sorts it, so it has no impact on queue times at all and there's no reason select a role you don't want because the matchmaker just tries to roughly sort players more evenly based on preference. You can still get a game where it's all dps preference players, but it'll become less common. No locks needed, no limits needed.

[@mattmeador2295]

One thing is the amount of characters per role. DPS has 10 more characters than both other roles so it should be obvious dps will be played much more. I wish roles more even

[@diamonshade7484]

Facts people were complaining about that but others told them they were being babies

[@aerostrafe1075]

It could be even and it wouldnt really change anything. I feel like people are fooling themselves. They could add 10 to tank and support tomorrow then you'll still get the instalock duelist.

[@ladyhdwastaken]

@@aerostrafe1075 Yeah, you will get those no matter what. But a lot of people who play this game play this game because Marvel. My favorite character is Deadpool. No matter what role they put him as I will probably play him. Even if he's hot garbage, I'll play him. He's cool. I am an off-tank player mostly. I have played strictly off-tank since the inception of OW1. There are no fun tanks in this game for me, let alone any off-tanks. So, yeah, limited options do suck. And I'm not particularly a Marvel fan either, just a few characters here and there.

[@thebman468]

@@aerostrafe1075well yeah, of course some people will insta lock duelist. But with objectively more variety, you’d be seeing people instalock vanguard a lot more too.

[@ender5892]

I doubt this will change because tanks and support are way harder to balance and develop than DPS. A buffed dps or a buffed support can break the game and become instant meta. A weak support or weak tank won't be picked.

[@bathsaltshero]

here's my take: the moment community realises that 3tanks+3heals is utterly broken and start abusing it - this is when they will cave and drop role queue. good luck trying to handle thor+cap+strange+mantis+luna+jeff! ps. before you go 'ackhstushally luna gets banned 100% of times on ranked' it dun matter - warlock and loki can fill in the gap and you still not touching the obj.

[@honeybeerose4108]

if your DPS is at all competent or if they're psylock and moon knight, then they'll just focus the supports, then take out the tanks

[@nycempirestate4689]

⁠@@honeybeerose4108 And if your tanks are at all competent, they’ll peel for their supports. Trying to jump on 3 supports getting shielded by three tanks while you’re getting frozen and slept is not easy.

[@honeybeerose4108]

@@nycempirestate4689 tbh it doesn’t matter much when moon knight’s shots ricochet, and as well characters like wolverine and squirrel girl mow down tanks, psylock can deal a lot of damage quickly, enough to take out most supports in less than 5 seconds, so with this kind of team comp, all you really need to do, is pick high DPS characters, and you’ll take out the supports fine, literally a moon knight counters that entire strategy because a tank peeling for their supports with a moon knight on the other team just puts the supports in danger

[@Big_ChefVEVO]

Role locking would be detrimental to quick on the fly changes to sway the battle. Im fully against it. Id rather deal with having to wuick switch to healer from DPS to make the battle work in our favor.

[@liarliarplantsforhire2581]

As someone who has thr most fun with the strategy involved in the game, open queues where me and my duo are the only tank and support respectivly get annoying. Sure. People wanna have fun playing whoever they want. But i dont find losing back to back due to nothing more than poor composition balance fun. Id like a seperate role queue, at the very least for competitive for that simple reason

[@partialartist]

If you were to do Role Queue, that could work as long as it doesn’t LOCK the player into the role(s) they choose. For instance, I’m okay with duelist and a good healer but a terrible tank. I choose both DPS and Healer and it matches me with players who choose opposite queues until it’s even. And like I said DON’T lock the people in their roles, just show the preferred role choices first and if they choose outside their role, give a “are you sure?” Button to confirm button so the developers can see how the matches go with people needing to switch or choosing to based on the outcome of the match.

[@umbralflow6883]

But what happens if you get 6 player that pick dps and another role. Who then joins and all pick dps. Wouldnt you run into the same issue as open.

[@partialartist]

@ thats why I said the match making would look for the opposite queues, like Tank/DPS or the ever allusive Tank/Healer. This is more so people can find the balance amongst themselves for who chose what role and sticks to it or see the change for whatever reason may be. If they truly don’t want role lock, then 6 DPS may be inevitable, but you’ll never be locked out and I think that’s what people complain the most about this idea

[@DesertFoxAxis]

It’s actually crazy the good that Spilo has down to Samito’s image in the Overwatch space.

[@ashmanchester2611]

The same people yelling about roll que are the same ones who complain that they have to play tank or specialist because someone else isn't. Let people play what they want instead of strong arming them into playing a certain class.

[@supra0_0nova]

Team based game

[@supra0_0nova]

Being a team is literally part of the game so saying stop crying and let people play whatever they want is kinda redundant

[@ashmanchester2611]

@@supra0_0nova then if it's a team based game then the people asking for role que should just pick the roles no else is playing. Not ask for the devs to make it so players are forced to play certain roles in a match.

[@cius2112]

Lol the very next comment too lmfao

[@squeaks5677]

People don’t fucking realize that when they add role queue, everyone will be queueing for duelist (the most fun role), not get a game, and just quit the game.

[@OpenYourMind88.]

I beat triple support last night by just going hard dive on supports and separating them

[@Notllamalord]

I think role restriction is good enough. The roles are actually quite flexible but when 5 toddlers all want dps the game is unwinnable. Give skilled teams the option of different comps (maybe 3 max) but also don’t let marvel brained randoms ruin everything

[@dronnovik95]

Weak argument. If marvel braindead random is going to ruin your game, he will ruin it regardless of role.

[@Notllamalord]

They’ll just queue DPS still and get longer wait times. It’s not like they’re gonna flex. Plus, they might be good at the game, but only want to/is good at dps alone

[@artsho]

if 5 toddlers all want dps and lose whats the problem? it should be all open.

[@dronnovik95]

@@Notllamalord even if they flexed they would just go for "dps healer" anyway, making role lock even worse. It is even more miserable to not being able to cover for lacking role, coz you are locked. *cough dps moiras, kirikos, etc., cough*

[@br3d9]

​​@@dronnovik95 dps moira's and kirikos historically tend to win games. But y'all might not be ready for this discussion

[@EvilShadex101]

Even at a casual level it’s not fun to just get rolled over because your team is nothing but DPS that are doing absolutely nothing. You can’t really even play tanks at that point unless you’re Strange cause you have no way to actually push forward.

[@Chinesetakeout382]

I’m at least in favor in a minimum of 1 per role kinda thing. The game is not fun if there’s no tank and completely miserable with no support. I don’t think people will want to stick around if half the matches are miserable because people don’t want to play support or tank. It helps make things less miserable while still maximizing creativity. In most situations, 1-4-1 is very functional for most players.

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

People will leave over time. The broader gaming community would have to be brainwashed for them to do it in a healthy way. Either leave it be, or just run straight propaganda 😂

[@gravybate2283]

Tank is not required. Support is

[@Ziggyvu]

In low ranks it works sure. But higher ranks you’ll just get slaughtered if both teams have equal skill

[@paulakroy2635]

@@ZiggyvuI mean then people learn to flex. Plus 1-4-1 was played in owl and won a season

[@TheSCPStudio]

It’s funny you say that because the people in your scenario are the exact same people who are perpetuating the issue. Instead of learning support or tank themselves they just leave the game.

[@duttdits]

It's frustrating how often I look at team comp and see that we're probably losing if I don't play support. I'm support like 80% of my games.

[@NDalll]

To add to the discission even if open Q games often have a good amount of supports/tanks, it is often the same people that end up filling. Psylocke is my favorite hero by far and I really don't enjoy tanking in this game, but I have twice the hours on tank than I have dps. It really sucks when it feels like I have to sacrifise my enjoyment of the game 90% of time, if I want to win.

[@ELI-521]

Then don’t swap and enjoy playing who you want when you want no one is forcing you to swap. You can play around teams with either 1 or no vanguard if this games ever get a global Regen passive you could even see more 1 strategist comps or even no none

[@pfalzFinest]

Don't feel forced to swap. 1-3-2 is very viable. Dive DPS like Psylocke/Magik/Panther basically do the same thing (disrupting the backline) as Venom/Hulk/Captain America do.

[@amarjo351]

Don't let them lie to you, 3-2+1 is only viable in certain sections of some maps.2-2-2 is by far the better comp. Those are the DPS hogs trying not to get put in a 5min que that's all.

[@FrostyShock349]

Stop switching then

[@ChumBucketMindControlHelmet]

The queue times are honestly what makes it super fun to play because if I have a bad game where I'm the only one to get a kill in 2 rounds I can just go again when in overwatch I get to wait and stew for 6 minutes sometimes for maybe another crappy 5 minute game. I can play MR for hours but OW I can only play a few games before I want to blow my brains out

[@notacoree]

I like open queue, I think role lock/queue should be its own gamemode. I don't think the game should tell you how your team should be composed

[@SteamGrace]

It does tho. It will tell you to pick heroes until you have a 2-2-2 composition.

[@kyall859]

@@SteamGracelies

[@macky453]

@@kyall859it's not a lie, he just didn't explain in properly. In rivals during hero select, there is a pop up that will suggest what to pick depending on what others have picked. For example, it'll say "suggest vanguard" when your teammates have picked 3DPS and 2 Supports

[@bathsaltshero]

lil timmy that's angry cuz he lost 5 games in a row as support now instalocked logan. enjoy.

[@zeethejanitor]

I think max 3 and team ups encouraging role balance seems like a good compromise imo.

[@avoided1885]

ive noticed in ranked and casual people will fill and swap, when you make heros that are actually fun to play it seems that people will go and play them and not confine themselves to one or two heroes weird. Hope they keep it open queue so far it hasnt been that bad.

[@ladyhdwastaken]

As a tank player Yeah I can't play tank. They're all unbelievably boring. I'm just vibing playing Jeff the Landshark until further notice. At least he's adorable

[@amarjo351]

​@@ladyhdwastaken peni is fun to play and so is venom, the other tanks can get tweaked a bit though.

[@Deusaga]

I don'twant role queu or role lock. I wnt them to even out the roles. Equal hero numbers in vanguard and strategist to the duelist. This will encourage players to flex more, MUCH more likely for any one player to find a hero they jive with in the other roles.

[@ladyhdwastaken]

Yes this too! I know DPS players who LOVE playing Junker Queen cause she's just basically a DPSy tank, or a tanky DPS, whatever you wanna call it. She's also just genuinely fun and satisfying. I'm a tank player and I love playing tanky, sustainy DPS like Mei. On support, I like Brig cause she's just a bodyguard for the backline. Overwatch did it so well with who's available in what role and a lot of this has been available since day 1.

[@thebman468]

100%. Rn I really only play Support or Vanguard once in a while, but you know DAMN well I’m locking in you-know-who that’s been leaked to be a support when he’s added!

[@ollydavis2495]

No if people dont wanna co-ordinate and flex to tank and support when needed they deserve to lose. Teamwork is part of the game.

[@fizzywhizzbanger5610]

Exactly; the solution is to stop whining and vary your skills, not restrict other players.

[@umbralflow6883]

@@fizzywhizzbanger5610 If you are doing everything right but the other 4 to 5 do not. It not a matter of skill. You lost due to poor comp and bad luck for getting them. you cant control that. That is not fun. Im a heal main but having to flex every game to that role is not fun. Later down the line this will harm the game. as players that feel they have to flex for other that would throw the game if they have to get off dps will leave the game or go to rank and open will dry up anyways. Rank wll become the main mode just to avoid dps locking until that too is ruined. They they leave the game and all you have left is dps player fighting over who is dps.

[@dapper-alcremie460]

Also, a good thing I heard too I forgot which youtuber said this, if they go the current direction they’re going with giving every character pieces to fill in other roles then role queue wouldn’t be needed (like wolverine having self heals and damage reduction and storm having buffs)

[@Zakon673]

@@fizzywhizzbanger5610 I would agree with you, except I believe it's DPS-only players who don't want role queue. They want fast queues so they can instalock DPS and never switch. It's people like ME who DO flex that want role queue so that I can ACTUALLY PLAY DPS FOR ONCE.

[@fizzywhizzbanger5610]

@@Zakon673 Except that I don't want role lock, and I legit never play as a Duelist. I prefer the Strategist and Vanguard roles because it's far more satisfying to get a triple KO as a healer than as a DPS, as well as keeping my team alive.

[@theezeuslord5317]

SIMPLE, If players want to insta lock 3-4 DPS in ranked and don’t want to fill to win in ranked and play something of value to help the team WIN in a COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT then they will add role lock just like overwatch had to because players became so frustrated and most lobbies were over before they started. NO ONE is saying that other comps camps work but if the COMMUNITY can’t stabilize it. Then it will be up to DEVS to correct this…SIMPLE

[@dronnovik95]

@@theezeuslord5317 overwatch added rolelock only because blizzard couldnt balance 3-0-3 comp that was actual optimal comp during that time. So instead of putting some though into it they just eleminated it all together. It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with player frustration. And even after that their tendencies to just remove things they struggle to balance is seen across the years.

[@caiuscosades362]

Longer Queue times are a top-down concern, even for duelist mains. 90% of players won’t have queue times longer than 2 mins.

[@KaptanqqTwitch]

thats not true, you mean 60% of people will have queue times over 10 minutes also if you gon use that argument then you only get 5 dps 5% of the time

[@waynetec13]

@@caiuscosades362 I'm Silver in OW. My son, who I play with regularly is also silver. When we queue for even QP, if one of us doesn't flex to support or tank, queues can take anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes. Even when I flex to support/tank, queue times still take 1-5 minutes. In silver quick play. Idk about y'all, but when I want to play a game, I want to play it, not stare at a load screen for 10 minutes.....every 10 minutes.

[@ender5892]

​​@@waynetec13group queues on overwatch are different because the matchmaking puts you on teams that also have groups stabilished, not sole players. That's not a role queue problem, it's an overwatch matchmaking problem. I also found it weird how long it took me to find matches playing with my friends until I've read this information in the game. In theory group queuing should be faster than solo queuing, but because of this simple algorithm they're longer.

[@Onechanzetolive]

F HEALTH REGAIN! I don’t want a hella with a passive heal 😒

[@swagfiltr894]

i personally dont think it should, it would be higher quality but the magic would be lost a bit and fun

[@cithiel7804]

Lmk what your opinion is after you're done watching the video as well 🙏

[@vi-vii-xcix496]

Whats magical about being forced to play a role you don’t wanna play or getting comp diffed cause you have 5 DPS in your team.

[@aerostrafe1075]

@@vi-vii-xcix496 This 5 dps in your lobby feels so overblown. I can solo que all day and not get it that often even when im the one insta locking duelist sometimes. I sometimes wait for my team to pick and others pick duelist. I even put in chat "I just flexed last game so feeling like duelist."

[@SamWhite-pg7bj]

@@aerostrafe1075I agree, I’ve had it happen once or twice but I hardly ever had 5 dps, hell, I’ve had to flex OFF support because too many ppl wanna play it. I also think it’s a hero pick issue, because some supp can totally solo heal a whole team and some cannot. The few times I have had to solo support I just play cloak and dagger bc her healing output is just insane, and I’ve still won some of those matches

[@vi-vii-xcix496]

@@aerostrafe1075 bro im a diamond tank player im telling u if i dont tank in about 3/5 of my games no one tanks or they swap when its too late. I cant count the amount of times i have had to solo tank on strange in DIAMOND. I gave up on solo que i just stack with friends now.

[@dodee312]

A form of role queue that seems to work really well is in Deadlock. You choose which heroes you wanna play and the system then tries to put you in a game where you can your most preferred heroes. HOWEVER, Deadlock is a different game from Marvel Rivals. For one, it’s a MOBA, yes it’s also a 3rd person shooter but it plays differently than Marvel Rivals. For example, Deadlock doesn’t have roles for each hero this is because the type of role your hero is, is not dependent on its skillset but rather how you build them throughout the game. This is why I think this type of role queue works really well with Deadlock. For Marvel Rivals, I can see it having some form of success, but the competitive aspect of the game also has hero bans and I don’t think those two systems would mesh well together.

[@vi-vii-xcix496]

Bro people gotta understand that open que is holding tank back. They cant make tanks “fun” by buffing them with open que so they will stay mid. The only negative with role que is que times and i would much rather wait knowing im gonna play a role i want to play then flexing to tank for the 7th time in a row.

[@KaptanqqTwitch]

not true everyone rn agrees that tank in ow2 is less fun and more miserable than playing tank in marvel rivals

[@soccerthepkmnmaster]

​@@KaptanqqTwitch That doesn't really matter if very few people play tanks anyways.

[@KaptanqqTwitch]

@@soccerthepkmnmaster dude what??? also forgot 1 thing, metas like double shield and goats were caused by the supports not tanks

[@soccerthepkmnmaster]

@@KaptanqqTwitch Unless Marvel Rivals is gonna nerf supports, that doesn't really matter either.

[@vi-vii-xcix496]

@@KaptanqqTwitch bro half the tanks in marvel rivals are map, team or mode dependent. The only consistent tanks are strange, magneto, venom and thor the rest take way too much effort for barely any value. Literally no one plays tank in my games and if they do they ass cause they are forced to flex.

[@skybreach4262]

It has been proven in any type of business, that quality leads to success. People will wait if it’s worth waiting for. Quality first always,not que times.

[@SnowyDogProductions]

Let the game be fun. Just let the chaos happen. This game isn’t competitive and it shouldn’t be. Just let the game be causal. Just bc there’s a competitive mode doesn’t mean you should focus on that. I have fun bc I can swap to all three roles in a game.

[@Rodinho37]

If you don't want to play for the win and tryhard just play fast play mode. Competitive if for someone who wants to climbs ranks and battle in more serious and intense games.

[@Maluuh]

​@@Rodinho37if a player wants to take it this seriously they could befriend and add support and tank players from their match and queue with them

[@Circurose]

Ok, so competitive mode?

[@fudgeanater]

No we don't. It won't make the annoying intsalock DPS learn other heros that isn't the DPS role. All a role lock/queue does is punish those of us who aren't annoying little twats and play every role. Also a lot of these heros have combos that are designed with 1-2 heros sometimes in the same role.

[@TheAzureSky1]

Are we forgetting that DPS wait times exploded after role queue in Overwatch? Streamers were waiting 5, 10, 20, 30 minutes for games. But they're streamers, they'll tolerate it. But what about casuals? Have people seriously forgotten how long waiting even a single minute is? You come home from your 9-to-5 and wanna chill, not wait 5 minutes. People hate waiting for ANYTHING. This is a multiplayer game: it lives and dies by player count. Role queue's effect on the player count is the single most practical reason not to have it. You can argue imbalanced games can also make people quit but if you lose badly, you can just queue again quickly. Losing badly AND waiting 5 minutes feels 100x worse than only losing badly. DPS will always be the most popular role in literally any team game. It's a fact.

[@mrcontractorbk201]

the queue time exploded because everyone wants to be dps and that's the problem. The punishment for too many dps queued up is the long wait times. Although I don't agree about how that is handled, on the other hand it is really annoying when you wanted to be a dps main but had to main support or tank cause your team wants to have mvp so bad 🤷‍♂️

[@spr1ngcactu5]

sounds like a game where every team will have 6 dps 0 tank 0 healer

[@TheAzureSky1]

@@spr1ngcactu5 Developers said very, very few games were like that.

[@amarjo351]

With all due disrespect, f'em, go play tank/support, no. Good, wait 20min for a game jacka**.

[@calos7349]

To state the obvious where conflating to different communities, the hyper casual quick players want fast queues at all costs and the esports watching ranked tryharders will wait 20 happily for the 100% balanced optimized match. Ideally the devs make two different systems to appeal to two very different player bases

[@chumcalmdown]

Provide both options for quick play and competitive modes. Include the ability to ban roles in the role queue mode. Having OPTIONS is essential. This can be managed effectively.

[@abelcross811]

Open que and poor balancing led to goats which then killed the game this game is HEAVLY BASED ON. Alot of you who argue for creativity have no earthly idea what brig 1.0 was like (or forgot) and clearly havent been ass blasted enough times by teams in rivals running 2-2-2. There is nothing creative about being forced to play a role you dont want to because people are inherently selfish instalock dps and now YOU try to salvage the comp with a tank or healer just to soften the blow. I'll take longer que times if i get better matches. honeslty you can make them separate ques anyway if people like losing so much Am I saying we will get goats 1 to 1 or brig 1.0? No, but I do think the games current environment will lead to something similar due to people not understanding they are in a honeymoon phase and just accepting everything netease do just cause its not blizzard.

[@36cowboysintotalatramranch]

If 2-2-2 is the best team comp then people who can play it will climb the ranks like they're supposed to.

[@beeree14]

@@36cowboysintotalatramranchexactly. People who are too stubborn to swap when they are sucking will just self cleanse the issue themselves and remain in low rank anyway. Truly competitive players will do whatever to win.

[@ender5892]

true

[@ihealforameal]

They should implement the rule that there should be a maximum of 3 players at each role. So that you can have 3 dps at max. It doesnt guarentee, that you always have a healer/tank, but it will make bad comps a lot less common.

[@CodeLehggo]

A good point that Spilo brought up is that frustration of never getting to play your hero (unless you wanna be selfish/don’t care about team comp) in low elo ranked. It’s something that higher ranked players don’t really have to deal with cause there’s more dedicated tank/supports up there

[@ELI-521]

Play with friends simple

[@CodeLehggo]

@@ELI-521 You do realize that’s a flawed way of thinking right? I shouldn’t have to play with friends in order to guarantee I get a halfway decent experience .

[@nathanielking8233]

@@ELI-521Good idea. The solo queue players can have role lock and friends can decide if they want a support or tank in open queue when they play as a group. I’ll support it.

[@bichitomax]

Most of the time I just want to play alone in my own time and not to wait friends to be available.​@@ELI-521

[@Eirenband]

"No offtanks" Magneto - "Am I a joke to you?

[@codyhernandez81]

Adam Warlock's shift does not need a nerf. Only thing he has to keep himself somewhat comparable to Luna, Mantis, or Dagger.

[@ash_yt0]

The game should probably have a format it aims to create. But at the same time if you're new to the game, you probably haven't decided what role you like most yet. It's like being asked what degree do you want to study in college before you've even gone to high school to sample all the basic subjects. The UI should probably have "All Roles" queue be the biggest button, which will put you into a game without locking your role, and that's the biggest button so casual players press that button as the default Play Button, but deeper in the UI you can specify roles which more hardcore players will take the extra step to do. Or maybe you have to reach a higher level to unlock Role Queue. Maybe make a system where every player who entered the game via "All Roles" doesn't get locked into a Role until unless other players have either selected their hero, or unless other players joined via Role Lock (which reserves their Role for them, locking "All Roles" players from picking that role if it's reserved by 2 people already.) So if everyone in the lobby joined via "All Roles" button, then they aren't locked into Support or Tank until after they've pick a hero. And then whoever chooses last has to flex to whatever is left.

[@ITNoetic]

If they add role lock, they are dictating the meta instead of allowing it to emerge from the intersection of intended design and player ingenuity. There are a looooot of really cool concepts we take for granted nowadays that only exist at all because of bugs and unintended consequences of certain design decisions. Combos in fighting games were an unintentional feature, for example. We got Devil May Cry because of a bug with juggling enemies in Onimusha.

[@ITNoetic]

I'm not anti-role lock, just saying that before we do role lock, to let the game's meta develop as it should first. So it will emerge from the right intersection. Maybe 6 to 12 months from now, we're having a different conversation entirely

[@bathsaltshero]

just make it so that there can be one set of max 3 of the same role - rest is up to the people to do. this should alleviate the problem (not remove as 3 tanks and 3 supports is still broken af).

[@ender5892]

The meta that will emerge: Goats 2.0

[@Im_So_Washed]

The best way to solve all of this is to implement soft role lock where you required to at least have 1 of each role

[@Krumm-t9k]

In a perfect world, we don’t need role ques. We are far from a perfect world. I main tank and heals… very discouraging being the only non Dps in a group consistently.

[@mertruc.5242]

The thing that I like the most about Marvel Rivals is they actually have balls to implament broken stuff into the game as casual without being annoying and it works

[@a5ymmetric15]

Im actually ok with rivals staying an open queue. I kinda like the idea of rivals being the casual game and overwatch being competitive. To me it feels like the two games were made with those respective mindsets. Cause let's face it, in overwatch quick play often feels more sweaty than comp. So having rivals there as the fun, non stressful alternative where I can just play my favorite hero whenever I want sounds pretty appealing to me. Then if I do want to play more seriously I can hop on overwatch where the format is more structured.

[@LeBronGotPosterisedByYabusele]

It shouldn’t because then if you have a bad tank or support you just tell them to swap and help them and you get more interesting team combos

[@echologic3918]

There should be queueing up as 2 roles like League of Legends, with your primary option being more likely to be picked but if you get a long queue you will be put as your second role.

[@FrostyShock349]

Ok time for a quick 30 minute match, in and out come on let's go! >Queues role because devs caved and forced it on everyone >20 minutes later gets a match >Switch characters anyways Damn I don't have time anymore and it wasn't fun waiting, better stop playing this game.

[@esaualfaro3447]

I find it funny how most people say you NEED tanks and supports or you lose, and they ask for role queue so OTHER players fill for them, instead of just picking correctly what the team needs.

[@Rando3210]

I dont see how they can do a preference based role queue, who would queue for dps for minutes, and then want to play tank or support. If a system like that was in the game the people who queue for whatever role would have to have priority to select heros on that role, or people would queue tank then just go something else for shorter queue times.

[@paulakroy2635]

Werid example but Sinatra was considered one of the best tracers but his tracking skills also applied to zarya. The idea is that you would at least one person on their main role so each team had at least role per team as well

[@beeree14]

Similar to LoL which does this. It just boils down if people want to actually win or just be selfish even if they are not winning. People who are stubborn and not swap even when they are sucking will just self cleanse themselves and stay in low rank anyway.

[@demifolk8940]

mobas do this and there’s nothing stopping you from queue supp/solo (or whatever the league equivalent is, i played smite). and just choosing their preferred character even if it was a mid or jungler. they actively throw the game pretty much. this may come as a surprise, but people who insta lock dps want a tank and heals, so that they can do dps things. also if someone is that desperate to play dps they can just play qp, it WOULD NOT and should not have role queue. its the fun mode, no need for it. maybe even qp can have passive healing, but its disabled in comp. there should be a secondary role option, and it should be optional. and it would be made clear that they will only attempt to put you into an equal match but thats its not guaranteed. you choose one primary role to increase the chance you get a specific role

[@carterfn5939]

I think the team ups which obviously were inspired by marvel movies/comics but also the first time I seen them in a game was in marvel alliance. However I think this concept should be in more games especially games that have lore in it. Overwatch is a slam dunk I think they can easily add something like this cool passives or even changes to active abilities with teams ups. I even saw people make concepts for games like apex legends for team ups and it really hit me that team ups are a really good addition to a game

[@seanbean3070]

Yes yes yes. Role lock. I couldn't care less if I havea DPS queue, I just want to guarantee that I'm going to play the role I feel like, and won't have to cover for a whole team that insta-locks DPS.

[@jaakezzz_G]

that's role queue then. Role lock means first come first serve, role queue means pick the role you want to play before you queue.

[@robot3153]

Hell no, go play overwatch

[@muneebow]

Amazing video. Saved it yesterday to listen to it today during my cardio 😂

[@Innes771]

I'm a healer main which is already a relatively small pool, but multiple times now I've had to swap to tank despite being a mid skill tank player so it seems to me that there is an even smaller smaller pool of tanks. Probably because the chars are so limited themselves, more strat and van heroes might make things more appealing - as someone else said, people often pick their favourite character, no matter the class, because theyre established comic book chars.

[@DjNaste]

Would it be the worst thing in the world for people to accept that some games will be lost because of your teammates, and there is nothing you can do about it? Does it matter more if you lost because your team doesn't pick the "meta" comp or if they pick the "optimal" comp and suck at it anyway? I think Role Queue would be a massive mistake, and I think the devs should instead balance around Open Queue. First thing they should add is a global health regen passive. That was the one good thing Overwatch has added for years, and I'm surprised Rivals didn't copy that as well. Second would be to crank out more Vanguard and Strategist heroes to try and appeal to more players.

[@yuh_19]

i agree with everyone you’ve said, but the idea of losing with nothing you can do about it isn’t a good feeling, if anything (to me at least) it’s more annoying in comparison to losing and learning. Especially if constantly you are facing 4 dps a game with none of them wanting to flex, it just pushes me away from playing and i wanna get off after 3 games

[@DjNaste]

@yuh_19 you will always lose games, though, and many you will not be able to do anything about. The format doesn't change that at all. The issue is perception and expectations, which is something that will realistically never change, but should. Let the Tournament mode be for the people who want to sweat as hard as possible, and rename "competitive" to "challenge" mode.

[@1of1june]

⁠@@DjNasteI shouldn’t “accept” losing my games due to teammates that refuse to cooperate and flex to another role. Getting an F for a group project that you worked on by yourself isn’t a reality we should roll over and accept. While Hero shooters are inherently toxic this really does a number on the wellbeing of the community.

[@DjNaste]

@@1of1june Bro, it's a video game. It's not that deep.

[@ryprims2189]

I’ve lost over 10 games because of this it’s no longer any fun trying to flex I’ll just throw with the team. 😂

[@AnthonyBoutdavong]

My solution to the comp is Min 1 for Tank and Support bc that’s just the essential. It doesn’t hurt the Queue bc you only need 6 players but they just have to figure it out once they are in there.

[@prancinNOOB]

The thing about role q, it doesnt have to lock 2-2-2, it just has to make sure both teams have the same number of tanks, dps, and supports. The anti role lockers are arguing in bad faith by not acknowledging this.

[@michaels9595]

Once people get tired of losing, regardless of playing out their hero fantasy of the moment, most will try to do something about it.

[@WhatAMagician]

If they don’t add role lock I’m going to quit and lots of people feel the same. No role lock is fine for the beginning to experiment with heroes and stuff but especially in ranked as we move into the real game, we need role lock period. Only people who argue are “pros” for most of the skill distribution we need it to have fun games. Especially in a game like this where the dps are so much more fun and expressive than the other roles (and larger amount)

[@ItsJustReaper-ys7ht]

You play ow don’t you?

[@FrostyShock349]

Just go back to your dying OW2

[@TheRolex216]

Ngl 3 support goes hard in this game, considering that a lot of those supports can dish out a lot of damage too

[@ikhalid1418]

how would role queue work without role lock if i backfill into a game and the roles i queued for were already taken?

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

You don’t queue for a role. You just queue in and lock the hero you want

[@beeree14]

It’s similar to league. It’s just queuing for preferences but not limiting the comp and swapping .

[@Leggett27]

When your 6 dps team wins, it feels amazing and super fun

[@Spawnova]

I don't want quantity over quality, I'd rather wait 3 minutes for a queue then get a 3 second queue with 1 healer and 5 dps and have a miserable time, and I'm also playing the game for fun, I don't want to be forced to fill a role I hate because I didn't instant lock a role

[@thebman468]

I genuinely only get a 0-5-1 match once in a blue moon. You all overstate this stuff by a lot.

[@robot3153]

Bro I’ve never had a game with 5 dps. Yall so dramatic

[@Spawnova]

@@robot3153 I'm glad your experience is the only valid one, I'm sorry that my games have not been the same as yours since yours are more important =[

[@robot3153]

@@Spawnova probably true cuz in diamond no one insta locks. Get better.

[@Spawnova]

@@robot3153 Sweet we're both the same rank, hopefully we can get better and stop being stuck in diamond, sucks to suck like we do =[

[@oessh9611]

These guys just need to change there teams up if they can’t beat 3 support. No role locks

[@ubadman1]

Player freedom is super overrated as a concept. People are selfish and it ruins games and peoples enjoyment. Plus its harder to balance When i play ow2 i know what im working with even if it isnt optimal.

[@FrostyShock349]

Then go back to your dying OW2

[@supertinydino]

I think open queue in this game is amazing, I personally think every team should have at least 1 of each role and thats about what I feel about team comp stuff

[@orangejuuc1524]

Short answer no long answer F NO

[@Arganith]

guess you like to play with like 5 dps players in your team or 4 supports

[@vgrm6116]

@@Arganithhonestly yeah I do. It’s always fun to see unoptimized comps to beat meta comps because players are playing what they’re good at

[@orangejuuc1524]

@@vgrm6116 I’d rather have a good dps than a dps player being useless on tank

[@mangshu21]

@@Arganith you ruined overwatch, don't ruin another game.

[@Arganith]

​Except you arent beating anyone when you lock in tank and realize your team is just dps and 0 healing or some other bs@@vgrm6116

[@salinaember9527]

it'd be interesting to have a role preview before a match starts. both teams can view their opposing team's composition and agree on locking the roles for the round. can be a way to mirror comps. can also have a preset template that chooses the most popular role comps, like 2-2-2, 1-3-2, 2-0-4, or 0-4-2, which both teams vote on.

[@Eastra3]

yes, a draft/ban system would achieve this, but you can't have a draft with the tank and support pool being so small.

[@salinaember9527]

@@Eastra3 hero bans are already implemented in high rank. i'm suggesting a further addition with role format voting.

[@Eastra3]

@ yes, that is a good idea. Also, there should be a draft/ban system in all ranks. I hate when games do that.

[@ender5892]

Wouldn't that just destroy the creativity or whatever part people been talking about to defend open queue? This way the team who is good with 3-3 will win over the team who never played 3-3 and isn't good with it. Matches will be always unbalanced.

[@Eastra3]

@@ender5892 'destroy' is a strong word. 'Limit' is a better choice of words. But also, you trade a slight bit of 'creativity' for more structure. Then, most people aren't upset that their teammates picked more than 2 tanks or supports. They are annoyed when they pick more than 2 or 3 dps, and the team lacks the fundamental bases for space creation and sustain that you get from healers and tanks. So the whole min1/max3 idea is mostly to address the greed of going too many DPS. 4 DPS may be 'creative' to you, but its absolutely miserable for those who have to solo tank/heal, and you are very likely to lose those games in the selection screen. I won a game in ranked playing the 3-3 GOATS, but no other team has wanted to do that. I personally don't like GOATS, and I think it only worked because the healing is overtuned right now, and their DPS weren't good enough to get picks, but they ended up going 3 tanks -1 dps - 2 healers against us, but we still won by a slight margin. So yeah, 'creativity' outside of some role que or role lock settings is usually just exploitation of playing DPS for most of the player base. I think that maybe the role que, role lock, min/max idea, should be for every rank below diamond. Then, when you get to Diamond, where people are more responsible with their picks, and aren't trying to play a dps they suck at just to get better and have fun, when everyone's rating is on the line, then you can remove all team comp restrictions.

[@bran4457]

Ultimately, people want to play the characters they enjoy... With that in mind, role que makes the most sense; if you are a spidey player, you do not have to worry about joining a game where there are 5 other duelist players, and you lose from the character select screen (most times). Even if you are a tank main, you know you'll have a balanced comp behind you. It also completely removes the risk of having GOATS like comps in the game that people mostly do not enjoy playing. Is it perfect, no? But im willing to bet most players would take 'quality' matches over faster que times in a heartbeat.

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

Look at Overwatch right now and say all that again. Role lock is a survivorship bias. So many players left after that because they can’t queue in to the game

[@KobeLoverTatum]

literally just add a LFG system in game and you'll literally never have to worry about roles, and it still allows you to switch roles completely, role lock makes the game so much more boring. no one wants to see 2 heroes from each role every game, they want much more variety

[@DarthCookieOW]

@RIP_ZYZZ1738 No, most OW players were and are jumping ship because of the switch to 5v5 and the continuously HORRIBLE balance patches and crazy unfair power creep bs no skill heroes added. It is worth experimenting with a min 1 max 3 concept, you could for example have queues for the respective roles only (and being locked into that role) and a flex option for players who play whatever on top. So you have at least one of each role every game and the flex players can play what they want/adapt

[@bran4457]

​@@RIP_ZYZZ1738Role lock is NOT the reason Overwatch is down right now. You'd know that if you actually played.

[@bran4457]

​@@KobeLoverTatumYeah, I'd be fine with some type of LFG system. It would be a nice happy-medium for those who want balanced comps, but also want to be able to experiment. My only question would be how much players would actually use it, rather than just queuing for solo q because it's faster? If I remember correctly, I think that's the reason it failed in OW1.

[@JonnyGolf12]

I have played ow since launch and this is the first time I’ve thought of this. What if they made it so your team in competitive mode needed at least one tank and one support. They can try and do what Samito was suggesting with role preference but I think if you’re the last to pick and you don’t have a tank on your team you will unfortunately be restricted into that role. I don’t think the obvious downside of this would occur that often since most games will probably have one support and one tank player, this is also where they could use the preferences to try and make sure the teams are assembled this way.

[@huuREG]

"Marvel rivals is close to peak OW 1" Oh nonononoo who's gonna tell him

[@Shogattsu]

For me personally I think coming from OW to rivals the biggest thing I don’t like is the hero bans. Yes, no one likes getting one shot by Hawkeye but having people perma ban heroes you wanna play is just straight unfun

[@gamist8166]

Whatever happens, i love that the support role isnt babied in this game. Its within their kits. When you give kiri the best cooldown in the game PLUS tp thru walls AND wall climbing AND the tiniest hitbox in the game, i could keep going on but that role also has MERCY or MOIRA or LIFEWEAVER like theres no argument here. Overwatch just thinks support players need their gameplay experience coddled. While Marvel Rivals does it right.

[@PgViking71]

It’s cause supports are the most vocal and cry the most.

[@franchezvibritannia7320]

@@PgViking71 DPS*

[@PgViking71]

@@franchezvibritannia7320 lol if only, all the support fem boys cry the most.

[@dragonmaster951753]

Dps crying that they can't play solitaire with the enemy backline. Tracer effectively has 6 dashes, genji reverses over half the supports kits against them 0 start up and a double jump, dash and wall climb. Ashe and Cassidy 2 taps every support without a pocket but yes they are too strong

[@PgViking71]

@ sounds like someone has shit positioning lmao. I climbed to masters on support and can’t break diamond 1 on dps. Support is definitely the easiest role. Y’all have characters that require 0 aim and still cry