Stormlight Archive Theories I Hate with Every Cell in My Body

Okay, so maybe it's a bit disingenuous to say I hate these with "every cell in my body," but it's called clickbait, okay people, I can't help the way the KZbin algorithm works.
Wait... Oh no. I've become one of THEM, haven't I???
00:00 Intro
01:17: Gavilar
04:46 Syl
07:04 Gavinor
11:26 Kaladin
Music:
George Street Shuffle & Tango de Manzana Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons...
#stormlightarchive #brandonsanderson #fantasy #cosmere

[@cadekachelmeier7251]

SL5 is when Kaladin finally convinces Odium to go to therapy.

[@martind2520]

That makes a weird amount of sense.

[@MrTNT49]

Brilliant.

[@j.b.5422]

peak fuction

[@Sevastiel]

..Maybe a little late for that one

[@angrychickengod3831]

I hate the theory that Kaladin's 5th ideal is gonna have to do with self-sacrifice for two reasons. 1) He would have sworn that ideal 10 minutes into The Way of Kings 2) If that were the case, there would never be any fifth ideal windrunners because they would all swear the fifth, then immediately die, making that incredible power go to waste

[@Tien1610]

I agree with you. I think his 5th ideal will complement the 4th: "⁴ i accept there are those i can't save, ⁵but i'll try nonetheless" Kaladin's whole arc is about learning to stop blaming himself for things beyond his control and finding value in his life. I think death wouldn't be a good ending for a character who suffered with depression as much as Kal, like a lot of real depressed people relate to him. Imagine the kind of impact it would have. This 5th ideal would mean something like "yeah, there are those you can't save and you shouldn't be too harsh on yourself if you fail, but you don't have to be apathetic to the level of judging people as 'impossible to save' too easily"

[@Arezoo298195]

I think his fifth ideal is realising there are those he shouldn’t protect and he will realise this in a confrontation with Moash who he still thinks he has failed to protect. Sometimes people make shitty choices that have consequences and Kal has to realise not to protect them from those consequences.

[@angrychickengod3831]

@@Arezoo298195 I agree, but based on what we learned from the Skybreakers, I think it will be something harder to accept than just "There will be those I should not protect" so I'm thinking "I will kill those I love to protect those in need" (Someone else said this before me)

[@Arezoo298195]

I dont see that being the case @@angrychickengod3831

[@coronin8587]

@@Arezoo298195 I'm not so sure, as I'd feel that would conflict entirely with the 3rd Ideal. I feel like it would more so go along the lines of “I will teach others to protect themselves," with the deep connection that Windrunners have with Squires (being the Order with the most of them from my recollection).

[@kylekerr7514]

My favorite theory is that Shallan's mom was a herald and when Shallan killed her, she returned to Braise and broke right away returning her and Taln.

[@Somerandom1922]

I'm pretty sure this is about 1 step away from being confirmed. We've had lots of hints, but also there was a VERY direct hint in the SA5 Prologue preview. Also, given the timings of things, I doubt she broke immediately. I expect she maybe lasted a year or so. But Odium was already making the everstorm, preparing it for the moment when a herald broke (after BaM was captured), so that if a herald dies again, they cannot return to Braise to stop the return. He either needed Taln to break (lol), or another herald to die, then break.

[@juanperret7044]

Everything being Shallan's fault but not really (because Shallan's mom tried to kill her first) is so on brand

[@connor_phillipz5689]

Agreed

[@Ruminations09]

There's a TON of evidence for this theory being true - a lot of it is very explicit in fact. But my personal favorite piece of evidence for this theory is from Words of Radiance. The very first line of chapter 10 in that book reads: "The world ended, and Shallan was to blame."

[@amandadamatta_]

Same

[@Señor-Donjusticia]

My real problem with the Gavinor theory is that Odium and Dalinar explicitly agreed to two WILLING champions. How in damnation can Gavinor be a willing champion? Even if Odium approached Gavinor and tricked him into saying “yes” this couldn’t in any possible way be seen as truly consensual. The books make it clear that silly twists of language do not satisfy these sorts of arrangements, and if the involved parties try, there will be severe consequences. Odium is NOT about to expose his own soul to Cultivation killing him and this kind of rule ending would most assuredly do just that.

[@josephjeffery3655]

Hello Gavinor, I'm your new friend Odium. Do you hate Moash for killing your father? I can help you get your revenge my little champion if you help me in the future. Don't worry, I'm here for you Gavinor in these difficult times. Give me your Pain.

[@havewissmart9602]

Since a child Shallan atleast reached the third oath, gavinor could be absolutely willing enough to be the champion. Just frame it as possible revenge on moash and the kid will agree

[@masonguthrie1257]

Also you need to remember that it was Rayse as Odium who made the deal and in general he was not as sly or as much of a gambler than Taravangian is. While Rayse would follow the spirit of the agreement we have already seen that Taravangian is more than willing to bend the wording of an agreement in the epilogue. Also it is to be noted that a theory on breaking oaths in this world has to be witnessed or known by the person who it is being broken against as Hoid was able to interfere when he helped Kaladin however he made sure to leave before Odium either noticed or was able to catch him in the act.

[@Señor-Donjusticia]

I’m not saying Taravangian couldn’t trick Gavinor. He absolutely could. This is the intellect of a toddler vs a god we’re talking about. Heck, Odium could have exploited Dalinar in the very first meeting when Dalinar asked him to leave. However, Odium had to first ask Dalinar if he was speaking on behalf of the world and then had to clarify that “those sorts of things” had to be done properly with full understanding by both parties. It is somewhat vague exactly how these god-binding laws work, but it seems to be that Odium is simply prohibited from taking advantage of a toddler’s lack of understanding, or heck, exploiting the vast intellect difference between himself and a full-blown mortal adult. He wasn’t able to with Dalinar, which leads me to believe that he wouldn’t be able to do so with Gavinor. At least, not do that without facing severe consequences that would lead to his destruction. Even as conniving as Taravangian is, he would still have inherited an understanding of the rules. Now, that being said, I do absolutely agree that Taravangian will comb through the rules for any possible loophole he can exploit. We have seen it with Wit when he altered his memories without “harming” him. The question in this case would become how far he could stretch “willingly” without harming himself by going against his word either in letter or spirit. There have been so many repetitions of the notion that Odium cannot act like the mythological voidbringers that simply twist language to exploit that I am inclined to believe that this is an actual rule and not something Odium just made up. Hence, I think the workaround Taravangian will figure out will be more subtle. Something that cannot be read as cheating, as again, it seems like gods are bound with consequences for those kinds of things, but simply as legitimately outplaying his opponent.

[@josephjeffery3655]

@@Señor-Donjusticia The nature of willingness has never been pinned down, with or without age or maturity considerations, this leaves Sanderson lots of room to use for his climax. Terovangian hates the conditions of the deal including if he wins. The clever part of the plan isn't Gavinor winning, it's having BOTH sides lose the contest. The terms only talk about when one side wins, so if both sides are no longer willing to continue then the deal is in default. The one wrinkle is we don't know the agreements from the previous Honor and Odium that is keeping Odium locked to the planet, but most likely this will free Odium from Honors tether. This gives Terovangian ten days to close off possible champions to be considered or metaling future visions to let them know what he is planning. Thematically the story starts with Gavilar's death and the ending will rhyme with Gavinor's fate.

[@kristal2783]

I think that Sanderson hinted of Gavilar not being a "nice person" when Navani was recalling how Gavilar treated her the night that he was assassinated. by berating her. She also mentioned that he would always make up for it later, like he always did so this was definitely a pattern of behaviour for him. I can't wait until next year!!

[@jahcode6132]

Yeah it wasn't so much a rug pull as much as his true nature was slowly revealed over the course of each epilogue. In the third one, his conversation with Eshonai makes you question what you've been told about him. In the 4th book, the way he treats Navani makes you really start to think that he's not as great as the previous books made him out to be. Then the 5th one goes full mask off and you see how much of a POS he really was.

[@dragonearth5456]

@@jahcode6132 I don't know what people where expecting though. He was a ruthless conqueror willing to have his side slaughter those that resisted him or even do it personally. He also was best buds with Sadeas and Dalinar who were pretty terrible people during that time period. He only stopped being super blood thirsty when he had one and even then he was still not a good man.

[@snowman9631]

I don't think we were ever lead to believe he was good... obviously early on we didn't know anything but almost immediately in TWOK Navani said several times he wasn't who everyone thought.

[@jahcode6132]

Honestly, when I read The Way of Kings, I thought Gallinar had gone through some kind of personal transformation similar to what Dallinar experienced the 5 years before and during the Stormlight Archive. I don't know what made me think that since it wasn't true.@@dragonearth5456

[@dragonearth5456]

@@snowman9631 Honestly everyone that knew him seems to agree that he was terrible.

[@orcishdad8075]

I think the suckling child is in reference to Dalinar's relationship to Elokar. The world wants him to take over, but that would mean betraying his nephew (letting the knife slip), who he still sees as a suckling child in need.

[@s.p.8508]

I’m convinced the suckling child in question is Oroden. Odium will make Oroden his champion and Kaladin will fight Dalinar to stop him from killing Oroden.

[@althechicken9597]

​@s.p.8508 he's not a suckling child, tho he's like 4 or 5 at the point of RoW. It's certainly possible, but it seems way too dark for Sanderson who has talked about not liking the child endangerment in GoT

[@ghostofdota]

@@s.p.8508 "Subject: a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note."- This doesnt fit either Kaladin nor Oroden

[@s.p.8508]

⁠@@ghostofdota the subject doesn’t describe who the person is, the subject is the person who had the death rattle. So a darkeyed youth of 16 years died and spoke that death rattle as he was dying.

[@ghostofdota]

@s.p.8508 Ah apologies, my mistake.

[@groofay]

I appreciate your graciousness toward the Syladin fans. Sometimes it might seem hopeless, but if the Stormlight Archive has taught us anything, it's that people deserve a second chance at committing horrific atrocities against humanity.

[@1wpc154]

*and singers

[@Lurklen]

Kaladin and Syl is not new, or all that out there. They're basically a co-dependent couple already. Not saying it's a good trajectory for the characters, but there's been lots of set up for them basically being this worlds Master Chief and Cortana. With Gavinor, it'd be freaking hilarious if we have all this set up and Odium is like "Mwahahaha, I have given you an *impossible choice* " and Dalinar just one shot ko's the kid with no hesitation. Odium's all "Dude, what the hell? That was a freaking child! You're the good guy!" And Dalinar doesn't even blink. "Gotta save the world bro, next time pick a tougher champion." Confrontation is over in like five seconds. Everyone high fives and goes home to whizz around with sky powers or whatever. I agree with you, but they don't need to show anything, Sanderson can just imply it as set up for Kaladin's return in the next era.

[@Jay-kx4jf]

Being co-dependent doesn't make you a couple. Two orphan siblings could also be codepeendent. Two makes a couple?

[@Lurklen]

@@Jay-kx4jf I said they were: "basically a co-dependent couple already" not that being co-dependent is what made them a couple. Indeed they could. Two of something can be referred to as a couple, yes.

[@Jay-kx4jf]

@@Lurklen actually you did. because i never saw them as a codependent couple. i saw them as a codependent raidant and spren. i really dont see any 'couple'ness in their relationship. but you do.

[@Lurklen]

@@Jay-kx4jf Actually I didn't. Just because we have a differing of perception of their relationship does not mean that their codependence is the reason I see them as possessing a romantic cast to their interactions, or think of them as a couple. What you did or didn't see has no bearing on why I came to the conclusion I did. I also see them as a codependent radiant and spren. Beyond that I see them as being potential romantic partners, and that many of their interactions already suggest a romantic dynamic. That you don't perceive it that way is interesting, but not relevant to how I came to my perspective. (Also, "radiant and spren" is not a cohesively defined relationship, it only exists in this narrative and the forms it takes even in that are already broad enough that as a descriptor it could cover all kinds of partnerships. Like a more sibling-like relationship, as you proposed, or any number of other kinds.) I said what I said, and you have become fixated on a particular interpretation of that. But I said that they already display the traits of a codependent couple in my view. That's all.

[@Jay-kx4jf]

​@@Lurklen I disagree that its not cohesively defined. the books do a lot of work to define the relationship and the intimacy that exists because of the nature of the relationship. i think its just shortsighted to boil that down to 'romantic dynamic' just because you dont have a model of the relationship. I do agree that it can come off as various other dynamics, like it often happens in real life(even with romantic couples themselves). but those 'projections' are often wrong. just like how you can have 2 guys who are bffs and roomates and do everything together, theyd display traits of a codepedent couple but are not really one. my point is that just because you see two individuals doing things that look romantic to you, but are in a completely foreign experience doesn't mean it is romantic as much an expression of the foreign experience.

[@Beldizar]

The idea that Kaladin would take over the Oathpact, or that the Oathpact would be reformed and Odium would be continued to be trapped in the Roshar system seems like an unsatisfying climax to the series. I think Cultivation has been pulling some strings, possibly since before Honor died, and that web of a plan is going to result in the "Odium problem" being taken care of in the Cosmere. She's already created and cultivated a mortal to hold the Odium shard, taking it away from Rayse. I think she's either got a plan to merge it with the remaining pieces of Honor, or splinter it in some way as to ensure it doesn't threaten her or what she cares about. Hoid once described Odium as something like "God's own hatred separated from the wisdom that gave it context." Maybe this whole story is about how Cultivation has laid a plan to give context to Adonalsium's hatred. Either way, the idea that the Oathpact would be reformed and we would end the series essentially back where we started, with the conflict continuing on in stalemate doesn't seem like the way things are going.

[@ElPanadero18]

I love the theory that Dalinar will take up both the restored shard of Honor and Odium, becoming the shard of War. It would suit him so perfectly, and merging Odium with something else is the only way to avoid either (a) Odium still being around at the end of Stomrlight, or (b) Odium getting splintered at the end of Stormlight, either of which would be hard to pull off without it feeling a bit disappointing.

[@joshuafischer684]

"He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, removed from the virtues that gave it context." Such a great villain introduction. Not something that is evil when given context, but when distilled to its purest essence and given over to a "loathsome, crafty, and dangerous" individual... truly a terrifying villain. But Taravangian is not purely Odium. He has been fairly heavily Invested by Cultivation AND has some amount of Honor's Investiture as well (being Rosharan). Taravangian very well could wind up merging three Shards or, barring that, take up amounts of Splintered power from Honor and Cultivation.

[@charlesburge2564]

"there are other things in life than just shipping fictional characters together when it makes no sense" - Truer words have never been spoken

[@dudethedude1220]

Anime community: *No*

[@Tien1610]

I think that while the duel is happening, the Ghostbloods will steal Ba-Ado-Mishram's gem and take her out of Roshar. This could lead to a war between Roshar and Scadrial. A separate theory is that by the end of book 5, the Storms(highstorm & Everstorm) will cease, living Roshar in a constant state of Weeping(that time of the year with no storms, which triggers Kal's seasonal depression). If it happens at night, it could be called Night of Sorrows, the night when the eternal weeping began

[@stealthmonkeydc2869]

Would be good to see another video on theories you like.

[@genericallyentertaining]

Yeah, I should probably have done that first, lol. But it's more fun to have hot takes about theories I don't like!

[@guddefulgaming]

@@genericallyentertaining Not sure :D "Theories I like" is something that has been done 1000 times over and over again, while "Theories i dont like" probably has been done much less (although not never i guess) This way you have a somewhat fresh format that makes us curious about Theorie you DO like. So completely fine in my book!

[@ctom42]

With regard to Taln not breaking, we know that a different Herald died on the day of the prologue. A prominent theory is that this herald is the one that broke. It isn't clear exactly how much power the oathpack still had to restrain the fused given the existence of the Everstorm, but the idea of reforging it has been proposed by characters in story so it seems there is still the possibility of it functioning.

[@Florkl]

Yeah. I don’t know if it’s a red herring or not, but I won’t be surprised if the oathpact is reforged. And, while I don’t necessarily think it will involve Kaladin, it’s also totally possible to just… not viscerally describe him being tortured in Braize. Like Sanderson did with Taln. Just because Sanderson is unlikely to write a plot point in an uncharacteristic way doesn’t mean the plot point itself is unlikely. Personally, while not mentioned, I think the reason Kaladin being stuck on Braize is unlikely is because his arc has been about struggling with being *too* sacrificing, and it would counterproductive to end his arc on a self-sacrificing note (which Sanderson showed he’s aware of with another character). Unless part 2 involved a rescue. Or Kal breaking.

[@VictorLopez-jq8ed]

In the prelude or the prologue?

[@hissingwings]

Wasn't it shallan's mom that broke? I thought she (her mom) was a herald and that when shallan killed her as a child that sent her back to braize

[@FelixM86]

@@hissingwings thats a very popular theory, but not confirmed (afaik)

[@hissingwings]

@@FelixM86 Ah ok, I thought there was a WoB on it somewhere

[@phill6504]

Kaladin is like Syl's doctor helping her get over her crippling amnesia while Syl is Kaladins psychologist, it would be weird if they were more than good friends. That said I would adore things like Syl and Kaladin going to the movies like that first fanfic image or etc as friends. Syl trying to get Kaladin with random ladies like she did in Oathbringer when she kept dropping things like that ardent drawing stickfigure pictures of Kaladin and her was amazing.

[@lutokill4784]

Nha, they are already more than good friends. They have a symbiotic relationship that surpass the concepts of romantic love, sexual attraction or fraternal friendship

[@Tien1610]

My theory about Kal's 5th ideal and how i think it will complement the 4th: "⁴ i accept there are those i can't save, ⁵but i'll try nonetheless" Kaladin's whole arc is about learning to stop blaming himself for things beyond his control and finding value in his life. I think death wouldn't be a good ending for a character who suffered with depression as much as Kal, like a lot of real depressed people relate to him. Imagine the kind of impact it would have. This 5th ideal would mean something like "yeah, there are those you can't save and you shouldn't be too harsh on yourself if you fail, but you don't have to be apathetic to the level of judging people as 'impossible to save' too easily"

[@igoutta]

god, I don't know why people want Kal to die. Feels so wrong about his journey. Dalinar, nonetheless...

[@rockargen9591]

i think this doesnt make much sense, since its already part of the windrunners oaths to alway try when you can, it wouldnt feel very rewarding if it was just confirmation of the second ideal. i think it will be something like "I accept that i may need protection" since he has already accepted he cant save everyone he only need to accept that not everything is his responsibility. besides, syl already told him this in the third book, wich could be foreshadowing just like teft was telling kaladin that he cant save everyone

[@oswinhull4203]

Yeah Kaladin dying would be probably the most heartbreaking death in fiction. Actually Syl dying would perhaps be worse. Syl living without Kaladin might even be even worse than that. It is all bad. I don't even want to think about it.

[@madjack5593]

my head canon for which herald broke is Chanarach, im a firm believe that Shallans unamed mother is Chanarach and when she killed her mother she went to Braize and lasted all of 2 seconds under torture and broke, starting the final desolation, because Taln never broke, im pretty sure Sanderson directly said that taln never broke during one of his live shows.

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

Because Taln is, in fact, *him*

[@christopheryoder8292]

If that were the case then the listeners would not have had to adopt Stormform and sacrifice themselves to summon the Everstorm. Also, if Chanarach broke so quickly it wouldn't have taken Taln years to appear in Kholinar.

[@madjack5593]

@@christopheryoder8292 so i didnt mean that chanarach broke immediately, that was jsut me exagerating, i do think the women might have lasted a few years under torture, and i beleive that Odium had been working on a way to circumvent the oathpact, which was the everstorm. Its my opinion that Chanarach ariving and braking allowed Odioum to accelerate his plans, starting a new Desolation and then implementing his oathpact workaround more easily.

[@christopheryoder8292]

@@madjack5593 fair enough

[@foodwaste3638]

Teft specifically says "Journey before destination. There are always several ways to achieve a goal. Failure is preferable to winning through unjust means. Protecting ten innocents is not worth killing one. In the end, all men die. How you lived will be far more important to the almighty than what you accomplished." I feel like the different orders interpret the first ideal differently, and the way your describing sounds like how the elsecallers would interpret it. The way that Teft interprets it is the way of the windrunners, the way dalinar and the bondsmiths would would most likely be something else entirely. I think it certainly is up for debate what Dalinar's opinion of the trolley car problem is.

[@coronin8587]

I'm not so sure about the "different orders would see it differently" thing. Each Ideal seems to work in the favour of the next, and since every order swears the first ideal, they would all see it the same.

[@jonahbardwell551]

​@@coronin8587 While they obviously have to have some common meaning otherwise swearing that ideal would be pointless, we've seen Radiants disagree on their basic meaning. Kaladin and Jasnah debate them heavily in Oathbringer iirc.

[@CTG3js]

I love this channel. your wit and general approach to these discussions are amazing!

[@radjedijake1414]

Looking at the ending of other Cosmere books they usually end with some major change to the status quo of the world, so while I could see some of the characters becoming part of some new generation of heralds (particularly a character like Jasnah, though I don’t remember if the Elsecaller herald is alive or not), I doubt they will be tortured for eternity.

[@Kuvantor]

it was very specifically stated by odium when making the contract that the champions must do it willingly. Gavinor just doesn't want bad things to happen to Dalinar, he plays with the boy as if he was his father. Gavinor wants revenge, and the person he wants to kill is a servant of odium, he would just never accept it. It would require a very convoluted manipulation, which would not be cool.

[@cirogoldemberg9910]

i'm actually to lazy to look for it but i would like to know if there's a theory around Adolin getting/making some new type of bond with spren in parallel to the Nahel Bond (his relationship with Mayalaran). Maybe it will lead to something similar as a Twinborn but with the Surges, making new combinations of surges. Something not as powerful as a knight radiant but more flexible with its rules. I don't want to make a whole page about it in case is already written and discused, but if you know i would to hear your opinions on the matter

[@igoutta]

That's a theory as old as book two but I loved and embraced it with all my heart

[@cirogoldemberg9910]

@@igoutta what the hell. How did people predict it already in BOOK TWO. What clues did they see oh my god

[@joshuafischer684]

​@@cirogoldemberg9910Adolin talking to his Blade coupled with the reveal that True Spren become Blades.

[@erickalfaro8389]

I can see this or a version of this happening. Since the shardblades can change to any weapon and they already set it up with his love of the spirit of fighting and how all weapons have their purpose. He had a rant about how each weapon has a purpose and a best application. Which makes me excited to see him fight and use the right weapons in a masterful way during an epic fight.

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

I think more Maya will return to before she abandoned her oath. Adolin's constant interaction with her, and her speaking during Adolin's "trial" show she's more active and conscious then other dead spren.

[@foodsupply5071]

There is the third answer that Brandon could take and it’s by far the worst one I think which is to save gavinor and still find a way to beat odium. I don’t think that Brandon will do that though because it feels cheap Personally I like the theory of Kaladin picking up the reforged shard of honor. I don’t know if I really want this to happen but it feels „right“ on an emotional level. It would at least be the person that I would most like to take the shard if Brandon makes a reforging happen

[@percyaddams8443]

Pulling a sazed again

[@Alkeeros]

​@percyaddams8443 I mean, it'd be interesting if every shard ended up being controlled by a character we actually know. What personal connection do I have to Rayse or Ati? None. What connection do I have to Taravangian or Sazed? Much more depth there. I like growing to know the Shards before whatever final punch up happens, and better seeing how the power changes the individual. But also he'll have to make each fusing with a shard unique or it'll feel predictable

[@percyaddams8443]

@@Alkeeros I agree!! It would be awesome to see this happen with some of his novels, but I feel like it doesn't make sense for stories like elantris (depending on what happens in the next book, idk if the shard will somehow heal itself) as well for warbreaker, we don't really even see a whole lot from endowment. I hope the second novel sheds some light on what's been going on.

[@zstewart]

I'll be interested to see what happens with Ishar's experiments with turning spren into physical beings. I think Roshar will ultimately be lost in Book 5 and survivors will have to flee to other worlds through the cognitive realm, and only spren turned physical can leave. I also speculate that the key to making the transformation work will be for the spren to have a Nahel Bond linking them to the physical already. We have already seen Syl gaining more understanding of human emotions as Kal levels up.

[@Beldizar]

We know that the idea of turning spren physical was attempted and abandoned according to Hoid. That's why Design has a wireframe construction wrapped in lightweaving instead of a physical body when she runs the noodle shop in Yumi. So I think the whole Ishar experiment is going to be something that goes wrong and dead-ends technologically, rather than becoming the future. We also don't ever see a physical body spren in any of the books that occur after Stormlight 5, which is further evidence of this.

[@zstewart]

​@@Beldizarthe phrasing in Yumi doesn't give any clarity on the reason it went poorly or even whether Hoid's statement applies to all spren or just Design in particular. And I don't think we've seen very much post Stormlight 5 anyway, is there much else confirmed to happen later? I guess Tress, since thats clearly post Wax & Wayne, but even Design doesn't show up there.

[@keybladerift5295]

The Kaladin idea actually came to mind a time or two, but I never really thought it was likely, more just a possibility. Though I think that was before RoW (just finally got caught up with the series like 2 months ago). I think it's very unlikely that the oath pact will be anything like the original anyway.

[@tyleroneill2136]

I think this is misrepresenting the Gavinor theory quite a bit, calling it just a trolley problem isn't really what it is. If it does end up happening, it would be a moment the series has been building up to for quite a while. The idea of sacrificing the one for the many has colored many interactions specifically between Dalinar and Taravangian, so it definitely wouldn't come out of left field. It is more than just a matter of whether or not Dalinar would sacrifice his nephew. It would be Taravangian forcing Dalinar to choose between his people and his personal ideals and honor. It would be a defining character moment for Dalinar personally, to see whether or not he will hold to his ideals, and I feel it would make a lot of sense in light of the relationship Dalinar and Taravangian have. Taravangian is trying to force Dalinar into an impossible position where he has to abandon his ideals to make the only "correct"decision.

[@EzaleaGraves]

Continuing with this strain, everyone on Roshar, even at the end of Rhythm of War, doesn't trust that Dalinar is trying to save the world. Can you imagine the repercussions the entire world knowing that Dalinar killed his child nephew, the only heir to the throne after Jasnah? There has been a lot of stuff setting up Dalinar and Navani with an extreme amount of power in incredibly suspicious ways. Dalinar conquered Alethcar, then his brother was assassinated the night of the peace treaty with the Parshendi, then he accidently found the home of the Knights Radiant and gained full control of it for himself, then became the leaders of the Knights Radiant. During that journey, he married his dead brother's wife, and shortly after securing all of this power he went the rightful King of Alethcar on a mission that got him killed. And after all of that, he's going to be told by Taravangian that he needs to kill Gavinor to save the world? Can you imagine if he does? Odium won't need the fused to destroy the rest of humanity, the ensuing planetary war will do the job for him. And if Dalinar knows that the rest of the world will turn against him, he might just decide that sparing Gavinor is the right choice. If the world is going to fight against Dalinar either way, wouldn't it be better if he aligns himself with Odium? That way there's a bigger chance that Odium will be defeated in the end Yeah, this is a lot more than just a trolley problem. Sure the switch between the rails looks the same, but we've got 4 books of backstory for each side of this track.

[@I5g58]

I’m pretty sure that most other monarchs would be willing to accept the death of one child to save the world. It would be decades before Gavinor would be a suitable heir anyway. Even if they did believe it to be fake, it would be a colossally stupid decision to start a war over it. Beyond that, even if it did somehow succeed, it would be largely due to luck, and taravengian is too smart to rely on luck.

[@I5g58]

Also, it would be completely possible to win without actually killing Gavinor. All it would take is a knife and an edge dancer.

[@AK-tr6lo]

One I hate is the idea that Kaladin is going to die in book 5. It’s similar to the theory he will become a herald. The big issue is that he’s spent 4 books failing to die and finding reasons to keep living. It would undermine that entire arch to have him die at this point.

[@e443productions9]

Kaladin is the sort of character that needs to make it until the very end otherwise it just loses the point imo. He's like the main protagonist of the series even though it is an ensemble story.

[@foodsupply5071]

@@e443productions9It can work though in my opinion. The magicians tv show did a great job with Quentin the suicidal protagonist dying. It was the reason why he died that changed the point of it. It wasn’t because he wanted to leave but because he wanted to save the people he loves and there was only one way to do it

[@e443productions9]

​@@foodsupply5071 See, but that to me is an endgame plot point, so doing it in book 5 would honestly kill all my interest in the back half. I'm already heavily against time skips because I have never seen a time skip done well in a way that didn't leave significant character development to be completely solved off screen that we never get to see. If you know of an example, please let me know because I have hated every single time it happened in other media. So if Kaladin isn't gonna be around afterwards then what even is the point anymore? That's just my thoughts. I think it can be done well, but wait until book 8 at least to do that. The other characters are great, but to me Kaladin is a core reason why Stormlight is so beloved and it would be a great shame. I'd rather have him become a herald and get benched until later so in that way we keep the shock value of a death but allow him to come back later on.

[@foodsupply5071]

@@e443productions9 Oh no I understand. Kaladin is pretty much my favorite fictional character of all time. It would devastate me to see him die but my point is that there are places where people with suicidal thoughts can die without it being a contradiction to their core character. As far as I know Kaladin is not going to be a main focus in the second stormlight half but I do hope that he still has a fundamental role in the cosmere. That’s why I like the fan theory of Kaladin picking up the reforged shard of honor because I can’t imagine anyone better suited than him. As far as time slips go I am somewhat undecided but I am hopeful that it turn out well. At first I thought the time jump would be 500 years and with a completely new cast but I am glad that it’s not and that we see many old faces

[@e443productions9]

@@foodsupply5071 Oh! I think we both had different meanings in mind for "losing the point". I was referring to my general interest in reading the SA without Kaladin haha, but yeah I do agree that there are great ways of closing off a story from a suicidal character with them sacrificing themselves without undermining the themes of valuing your life and finding a reason to keep going. That tracks for sure, and I can definitely see him dying in that sort of way, but only much later. I think he'll become some sort of mentor figure like how Dalinar sort of is in this first half of the story. He seems like a great candidate to lead the Knights Radiant if Dalinar finds himself in some other circumstances (like becoming a shard, becoming a cognitive shadow, getting imprisoned somewhere, etc. Also feel like he survives for the Cosmere endgame as a vessel or sliver or something of the like).

[@starman2995]

My theory for the duel is that TOdium is going to be gunning for a draw, as that is the only outcome of the duel that doesn't leave him bound to Roshar. That also helps give the Gavinor Champion theory more thematic weight, as there is another option that the opponent is trying to manipulate Dalinar into taking.

[@exorikk]

"Syladin" is the ship the unkillable teenage version of me in the back of my head comes up with.

[@trevorfultz]

Kaladin will most certainly become either a Herald or Honor. I fully buy the POV characters Ascending theory. However, my personal theory that I really enjoy is Kal becoming Honor after Stormfather dies, and then Syl becomes the new Stormmother.

[@illumstern8831]

Ooh! I've been a supporter of the Kal becomes Honor theory for a while. But, I always thought it would be Kal and Syl sharing the Shard, not Syl becoming a replacement for the Stormfather. My only hesitation is that I'm not a huge fan of anyone else bonding Syl(not necessarily in a couple/shipping way, just in an "I've got your back from now to the end of time" kinda relationship.) Hmm...

[@igoutta]

Nice reasonable theory. I don't know why people think Dalinar will be Honor when Kaladin is always depicted as song of Tanavast.

[@westquester]

Not a chance in Braze 😂

[@rockargen9591]

i think it should be dalinar, taravodium will definetly try something with his new powers and dalinar may realise that he has Honors power (since we know after his death, the power split across roshar, and what storm made from his essence travels through all of roshar? the stormfather) and rise up to the challenge

[@amandadamatta_]

Currently on my 3rd reread of the series and honestly? Tons of foreshadowing for Kal becoming Odium.

[@TheAngusm3]

You can peel Syladin from my cold dead fingers

[@HeyItsSnaith]

I see these theories, and raise you a Szethadin ship

[@coronin8587]

On the point of the Gavinor issue; I feel that a big notion in TSA is favouring the idea that not everything has a determined fate and that it's up to people to make decisions. That, no matter how difficult, they can still break out of what they consider to be their only options and follow a road that can bring them towards a better ending. Kal and the Honor Chasm, Shallan after what happened on the ship, Dalinar after Gavilar's death; these are all times that these characters could have given up, but they didn't and instead followed a path that seemed so difficult and yet the only way to keep going on for a better tomorrow. Killing a child is always bad. So too is letting b/millions die. So take a different road, bring forth a better tomorrow through actions that aren't as easy as a single decision and strive forth through hardship to bring about that end. It's not just JOURNEY before destination. It's LIFE before death, STRENGTH before weakness. Slaying an innocent child is disobeying those last tenets as well, as is doing nothing and letting a new apocalypse rear its ugly head.

[@enderknight39]

My favorite theory is that Elhokar is still alive. Yelig-nar was nearby when he died, and the characters left him pretty soon after. If Nale was able to resurrect Szeth after he was destroyed in the Everstorm, it makes sense that the same could have been done to Elhokar

[@agustinscarpati5966]

I like to think that if Sanderson were to make this video he would say the exact same things, word for word.

[@Xob_Driesestig]

10:28 ''Consequentialism doesn't always work'' I would say consequentialist *reasoning* doesn't always work to bring about the best consequences, but that's not the same thing as saying ''consequentialism doesn't always work''. Consequentialism doesn't state 'be a consequentialist', it states 'bring about the best consequences', if one can bring about the best consequences by not believing in consequentialism, then according to consequentialism we should do that. (this seems contradictory if you're used to religious theories of morality which place identity and evangelizing at it's center, but consequentialism doesn't care about any of that, it only cares about the consequences)

[@JayD001]

Two of your videos have been recommended to me this week, this one and the Wheel of time one about Rand. I wasn't able to watch the Rand video despite being interested as I've only just started the Eye of the World two weeks ago and don't want to get spoiled, (scary that KZbin knows what I'm reading) 😅. But I watched this one since I'm a big Brandon and Stormlight fan, I enjoyed this video so gave you a sub.

[@NoahWestover-xj2og]

My FAVORITE theory is that when they defeat odium Kaladin will become the new Honor and this makes sense because 1 he has just all the right principles and if you look at it it’s like he’s been being groomed for the role this whole time and I believe he even had his mind expanded, 2 his dynamics with his friends work out because he isn’t really close to anyone except for Syl anymore besides being friends with bridge four who are mostly off doing their own things now anyway, and Syl coincidentally is the only person who he could still stay with. And 3, in Sunlit man Hoid tricks Sigzel into thinking he was Kaladin, hinting that Kaladin is actually still alive meaning he’d have to be a shard. And lastly 4, out of everyone there are two people who could really take this role: Kaladin and Dalinar and by the looks of it, Dalinar is not exactly in the place to become a god considering he has a lot of worldly duties and he’s committed to a family and all this conflict with odium and stuff it just wouldn’t really make as much sense.

[@-WIT-]

the image of szeth and gavilar made me spit my drink😂 never seen it before

[@tomtheterrifying8592]

"Journey before destination" is absolutely a stance on consequentialist ethics. We have seen these dilemmas brought up in this series, specifically between Dalinar and Taravangian. The book has also shown that no predictions of the future are perfect, and Odium himself, a god, had trouble predicting all outcomes. Our heroes have on all fronts opposed the idea that "we shall take these lives to save others" and if they fail to continue doing so they will betray their own character. Because of this I disagree that Dalinar would choose to kill his great nephew, even if he knew from a prediction he would become evil.

[@BobertBobson]

I've always seen the "suckling child" death rattle as referring to Nale killing new Radiants in an attempt to stop the desolations from returning. As for who Odium's champion is, I don't think it really matters. Win or lose, Odium doesn't actually get what he wants. Unless Dalinar breaks the agreement Odium remains trapped in the Rosharan system for at least the next 1000 years. And Kaladin becoming a herald? I just don't see it happening. The Heralds were the best of the best, their wills further strengthened by their connection to each other. Kaladin is already suicidal, even if the Oathpact is restored he is not a good fit for being eternally tortured.

[@Sevastiel]

Some of my own thoughts! 1- If Dalinar gets better at conjoining realms, whos to say he can't learn to break bonds to? What if Odium goes, "Hahah, fight a fused, you cant kill that" and instead of using anti-voidlight or szeth's sword, he just decks the opposing champion and severs all of their connections to Odium and the physical and cognitive realm, re-fusing their bond to the spiritual realm, instantly killing them. 2- Kaladin's whole arc is him letting go and realizing his whole purpose as a human isn't just to hurt or be hurt, mans finally going to therapy. He's had a moment of absolutely falling apart every book so far, and each time he gets a little closer to actually being mentally stable for once in his life. That man doesn't need to go to braize, it'd invalidate his entire character 3- I was wondering if Ishi would be a champion for odium, or perhaps Nin, but odi boy already had a herald killed (if only by possible accident) so i think he might know that wouldn't work 4- istfg if the champion is someone from another series, I might be upset 5- If the champion is moash then im also gonna be upset and a little confused because that bitch is blind. Think he might have been being groomed for that though, too bad he had to see the light

[@Sevastiel]

Also kaladin would respond to the trolley problem by throwing himself at the trolley and trying to derail it via lashings, im 90% sure. or just getting the tracks stuck in the middle

[@ragnarokcinder470]

I'm one of who thinks Kaladin will become a Herald. But not in the scence that he will meet the same fate as Thalenel, but in the scence that he (When spoke his fifth and final oath) will too make a new kind of oathpact to contain the True Desolation for a couple of years at least, i can see the entire Bridge Four making this pact actually. But even if he meets Thalenel's torture, Brandon would probably do the same: imply, not show. Other theory i have is that, in company of Szeth, he'll find Honor's Shard in Shinovar because, as far as i am concern, no one knows or has Honor's Shard, nether Odium for obvious reasons. So... it feats that maybe Kal will become the new god of Honor, although i admit it sounds more like a fanfict right now. In the other hand maybe he will become accidentally a Worldhopper but, that seems more likely to become the future role of Shallan now days. What i want to say with all this crazy theories is that... Something will happen to Kaladin in the fifth book that will cause him to not being a main character in the six book, just knowing about him through out the perspective of his little brother and other characters, but we won't see his point of view in a chapter. He will provably: Disappear, Enslave in Condenation, become a greater entity like a Shard, Herald or a Cognitive Shadow, hop to other world like Scadriel or.... die. That's what i think. To frame my theory better: I haven't read a lot of books of the cosmere so, maybe I'm lacking a lot information about other possibilities or implications.

[@Alaric11]

One of the reasons why I think the oath pact won't be reforged is because I think the oathpact was flawed by design. Imagine if the oath pact only ended when all 10 heralds gave in. If that was the case then presumably Taln, the absolute biggest chad in all of fiction, would have kept the other 9 there suffering with him for eternity without breaking. I think someone had the same thought as Gavilor in the prologue of book 5, they wanted the power and were willing to risk eternal war to get it (Looking at you Ishar). Remaking the flawed system won't be any kind of real resolution, and sending best boy Taln back to Braise is unacceptable too.

[@someweeb4110]

That view outside looks incredible! Living in the city sucks man :(

[@NoorAhmed-nk2jq]

I don't know about Kaladin becoming a herald but from the beginning I always thought the ending of book 5 will mirror the prologue of book 1 in some way , and so I assumed that some or all our main characters will do some type of pact to buy the world more time thus taking the place of the original heralds, if they do get tortured it would be off-screen between book 5 and 6, it's not a fully formed theory just a feeling.

[@AndreKoop-nu6vk]

I agree with this, it gives a good conclusion to the 1st arc while still leaving a large conflict for the second arc as well.

[@Xanderqwerty123]

In respect to the Gavinor theory, it makes Gavinor an interesting Character in the second 1/2 of the series. He already has a vendetta at the age of 4, but he'll also have guilt for being responsible for the loss of the contest. This gives Orodin a chance to be his Tien and help him out of his depression when they are in their early twenties by that point in the story. It could have a longer character arc than just a sad trolley problem.

[@ericgabrielbautistajaimes9187]

The death of gavilán is not pathetic, the guy was the best representation of an Alethi, his death was amazing

[@jeffreyeshbach9372]

Gotta say, I’m not surprised about Gavilar being a terrible person. There were enough hints in the previous books that showed that he was up to something nefarious. The biggest questions I’m left with from the fifth prologue are 1) Who was the Herald that died? 2) What else might the Stormfather have been lying about that we’ve taken for granted as fact. 3) What is the connection between the Heralds and Ba-Ado-Mishram that Restares referenced when he said, “The one… we betrayed.”

[@ClayHales]

I think the big thing with journey before destination is that improvement is an ongoing process that shouldn't end until death. If you aren't always trying to improve, you are not living up to that ideal.

[@CHUCKLZLORD]

The Gavinor theory, you're missing something here. If Dalinar refuses to kill Gavinor, it doesn't mean he serves Odium. It's a fight to the death and Gavinor certainly isn't capable of killing Dalinar. The theory hinges on the "tie" condition that Wit mentioned when crafting the treaty. There's no conditions if neither side wins. I still think it's a weak theory and El seems to be the setup Champion, but who knows?

[@ryanboggs5919]

If i hadn't already read the prolgue of book five (it's on Brandon Sanderson's website for free) I'd have guessed we'd get to see Galivar's assassination through his pet axehound's perspective.

[@dominicandres1762]

-*Watches the video without having read book four, due to having forgotten 90% of the characters during the wait*

[@genevieveatwater4533]

Okay, I hadn't thought of all of these. But there is a note to the Gavinor one: In a fight to the death, Gavinor is NOT capable of killing Dalinar. And I don't think Dalinar could bring himself to kill Gavinor. So wouldn't that basically make the deal mute? A deal that New Odium doesn't want? I don't think it's what's going to happen, but it would actually be brilliant on Odium's part. A way to completely null the deal his predecessor made, and basically just call off the fight.

[@Alkeeros]

I think the fact that the duel's nature isn't well known (Dalinar basically said "I don't know what it will look like, I'm starting to figure it out" or something) could make the choice of champion very interesting. Oh, it's not a literal duel. It's.... a court case?!? (That wouldn't help Gavinor be more of a credible champion but hopefully you get my gist)

[@relapsedcactus4195]

Maybe not in 5 but I kinda disagree that it'll be fine for Kaladin to not find love. Sanderson has been writing about Kaladins so far failed quest for love since book one and has only given it a more prominent role in the character as the books have gone on. Will feel like a loose end if there isn't some closure whether that be in book 5 or book 10

[@user-ym2wv2sn2b]

To Syladin shippers. *Michael Jordan appears* "Stop it, get some help"

[@chindasasecas2461]

When i saw the syladin ship, i thought inmediatley that if they want to have some "adult fun", they gotta go to shadesmar for the full experience. That shit aint viable, so no problem.

[@thepyjamallamaloewen7655]

What’s this? A small KZbinr talking about a book series I love? Subscribed 👍

[@samwhite4961]

The debunks of Gavinor champion and Kaladin Herald made me think they were more likely😂

[@randondkdfujkf836hkjdgh]

Hey Nath, love the videos! If you were at BWI today I think I saw you, didn’t get a chance to say hi but keep up the stealer content!

[@JonnyRobbie]

I will fight you for Syladin. Choose your champion.

[@userJohnSmith]

Thanks for reminding me to reread everything

[@shrouded8797]

A deeper explanation of deontological ethics, consequentialism, and Radiant oaths would be appreciated. I think that sounds interesting.

[@wetpenguin]

I haven't read SA 5 prologue, but I thought it's well known that Gavilar was not a good guy from Navani's chapters

[@gyzardo3648]

I am NOT a theorist, I could never research a theory or anything but I CAN make predictions: I could see Szeth becoming Odiums champion. He's a broken, used and discarded man and would be VERY easy to take advantage of, however I want him to have more redemption.

[@vadersnemesis]

I don't see it, doesn't really fit with his character at all imo

[@rgprosucctions1704]

The real question is how tf you fill a 1600 page book with a 10 day story arc

[@brewster_4]

Imagine the book opens with the contest, and then the rest is the aftermath/fallout

[@ash7305]

I think if Gavinor ends up being champion (which I also hope doesnt happen), Dalinar would not be able to kill him, but Gavinor will not be able to kill his uncle eirthr. leading to a stalemate cause neither champion died which could in turn void the entire contract... (this could even be a loophole Todium spotted in the contract?)

[@deadcaptainjames6045]

Almost time to start my 5th reread. Im so excited for book 5

[@ryanboggs5919]

Also, Galvinar is the Qin Shi HuangDi of this universe. He united his warring states brutally, to be proclaimed King and go down in history as a great man, only to die prematurely because of his vain attempts of seeking immortality. In Chinese history, it was probably mercury poisoning from all the elixers he drank from his daoist alchemists.

[@ramspencer5492]

People who theorize often like clever... Like puzzles, with no consideration for the consequences of what that would do to the storytelling... To see one moment and say oh that's a cool moment... But they don't take into consideration that it completely wrecks entire character arcs and storylines. As far as Kal goes... His willingness to sacrifice himself to protect, would make it a lot more satisfying if he ended up not needing to have to do that! For something spectacular and unexpected to happen to Kaladen instead. I'd like to see a really different version of Kal show up stormlighter era 2... Maybe too powerful to be a main character anymore though.

[@SirKn1ght47]

*Massive Spoilers* I’m wondering, after that twist ending with Hoid, if Odium wants to use him as the champion… (Also, if he’s going to pull a lawyer trick and say “Well you said ten _days,_ but never specified which _planet’s_ day! I choose the longest of the Cosmere’s day cycles, say… Taldain’s?” (This mainly because having only ten Rosharan days seems too short for a Stormlight book… at least one where the hero wins) 😅

[@TheAmyrlinSeat]

I think Adolin will be odium's champion.

[@TheAmyrlinSeat]

There was some thing in Words Of Radiance about Adolin having Nine shadows. That's it. That's literally all the proof I have.

[@Ghost-Toast819]

I think Kaladin will become Honor long term not in SL5, but after the next set of books

[@emmamason5383]

He’s too obvious a choice though. Sandeson goes for the obvious person that you didn’t realize was obvious until the twist, like Taravangian becoming Odium or Sazed becoming Harmony. In which case I present Adolin. I actually didn’t come up with this theory until now, but as I was reading the books, I felt like Sanderson is building up something important for him. I wasn’t sure what though. And now I could see it. I wish I could bring more evidence but I haven’t read the books in awhile. Im in a reread session right now but i’m still only book one. I remember the court session with the spren though. And even though I don’t have clear cut memories of why, I just know that I had a strong sensation right then and there that he’d make a great Honor.

[@emmamason5383]

Wouldn’t it be funny though if it like turned out to be Lift or something 😂🤣🤣

[@Ghost-Toast819]

@@emmamason5383 adolin would make a great honor. though i believe him being in a relationship does decrease this chance a bit. unless shallan became cultivation or something (not completely oposed to that) but i also think that adolin and shallan will have child soon, and there child, along with oadin (pretty sure thats teh name of kaladins brother, cant remember) and elokars son are all gonna be really important for the story after book five. we already know that book 5 will have a 15-20 year time skip before book 6 meaning these younger kids will be adults at that point. now this doesnt mean adolin cant happen but i would really dislike it if he had a family and everything and was then forced to leave them for godhood as a shard. those are just my own feelings tho

[@Ghost-Toast819]

@@emmamason5383 not sure i would trust lift with that kind of power but honestly she would probably just conjure a bunch of food everywhere or something. she could be lined up to be cultivation at some point perhaps though as you said that might be too obvious. and honestly the more i think about adolin the more i like the idea. I love his character as much as i love kaladin. he is sorely underrated and id argue that he has undergone more development as a character than kaladin . if he becomes honor or by some other means i think he will be a catalyst for reviving the spren back to life. ok now that im typing this it makes sense. adolin is a bit of a rebel at heart to him honor is about love and kindness, and repspect to people of all level. we see more than once him treating lower class people better than others espeicially as the story has continued. he gave kaladin shards, he treats deadeyes like they are still people rather than a relic of the past and even in the very first scene with him he showed a whore kindness in the sadeas camp. this is all about honor but he also often disagrees with his dad becasue adolin doesnt like the codes from the way of kings. he likes to wear nice fashion and relax, and when he became highprince he relaxed the codes in the kohlin camps a bit. this shows that he believes in true honor and not all the cultural rules we associate with it. in short brandon will make a point of making adolin honor. Kaladin is perhaps the "right" choice similarly to how vin was supposed to inherit Preservation (preservation and funnily enough Ruin were both trying to utlize her since she seemed the most capable or something. ruin used the earing and preservation let her draw upon the mists for power) but it was always supposed to be sazed the hero of ages. adolin will be the sazed as kaladin will be the vin. good eye now i kinda wlll be suprised if it doesnt happen. then maybe kaladin helps raise adolins kid with shallan as a friend or father figure or something. that seems appropriate.

[@Stormhawk777]

Nerds clutching their pearls about kaladin boning Syl is hilarious They're basically in a ship already! You prudes are just so hung up on sex

[@Kat-gp6gj]

Ironically, Sanderson himself called Kaladin a prude

[@KatarzynaMatylla]

I agree, also I think the simple reasoning for those is 1. reusing of a plot twist. Sanderson is too good a writer for that. Also, too predictable. (However, of all theories you talk about this one is less bad IMO) 2. Too cheesy for Sanderson. 3&4. Too dark for Sanderson. I was surprised to not see anything about Moash, he seems to be most controversial character ever.

[@joshuafischer684]

Moash has incredible potential as a character. He could become an inverse Hoid, a blind wanderer stumbling through the Cosmere seeking absolution. Sanderson is a good enough writer to give him a redemption arc too.

[@Wantacow]

Theories of Kaladin dying just seem strange to me. Unrelated show but we saw so many theories about Bojack dying in the final season of Bojack Horseman. A series that deals with a lot of heavy stuff and depression. It just feels like people get quite lost with the message of media or maybe people just love when the main character dies a lot more than I do.

[@jobobminer8843]

Sylladin for life. Child champion is lit.

[@juanperret7044]

I actually really like the Gavinor theory if Dalinar doesn't kill him. I like a good moral dilemma and could see it causing a lot of drama within the Knights radiants. Like Jasnah would 100% be team kill Gavinor and Kal would be on the other side of that I think. Furthermore whether or not the choice is silly or stupid I think it would go far in showing what a man of extremes Dalinar is and how important it is for him to do what in his mind is the right thing. Dalinar does know that the immediate result would be horrible which would lead to great drama in the second half of Stormlight but as you say with consequentialism you don't really know what it would lead to in the long run. I'm a sucker for darkest timeline done well and I think that the reign of Taravodium at the end of book 5 is almost assured and Dalinar just losing a fight wouldn't really be the most interesting thing for me. But a moral choice this loaded, with MASSIVE implications for part 2 of the story sounds really interesting to me.

[@newbiesama]

For the champion: I don't know if it matters who it is. I would think El, but the real point is that both champs can't be harmed. And they are at Urithiru, were the Alethi live. SO what is holding Odiums champion back from just killing every person there? If anybody tries to fight back, it's a breach of contract and Odium wins.

[@adamoutrage6597]

It was already explained who Odium's champion is going to be. I'm surprised there's all these contrary theories.

[@Jason_Wilhelm]

We know the 5th ideal is the completion of the Knight's journey. The sky breakers was to become the embodiment of law. The windrunners are cultivated into what jeserin represented as the herald of kings. The fifth ideal of the windruners is to embody true leadership. I also think kaliden will become Honor's champion. I think Dalinar will reforge and take up the shard of honor.

[@liul]

I hate the Syl theory too, because, among other things, I see Syl as a child

[@elliotstaveley682]

The suckling child death rattle I always assumed it was from the POV of Hitlers mother. Just me?

[@althechicken9597]

Kal is definitely gonn **** Leshwi. As for syladin, WE NEED MORE PLATONIC FRINEDSHIPS BETWEEN GENEDERS IN FANTASY. not everyone who has chemestry should date. If you think that way (i dont blame you its societys fault) you are actively keeping yourself from having many fulfilling friendships.

[@barryallen2240]

Syladin's gonna happen, you can't stop it

[@peaceofcrap]

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

[@barryallen2240]

@@peaceofcrap kzbin.info/www/bejne/onSQn3tsiJmjY7Msi=NoMM9TK2xjt0tD-w

[@proto6948]

Kaladin making a sacrifice play would kind of make his whole arc pointless after RoW. He spent his whole life with the willingness to die for someone but now he's finally willing to live for the ones he loves. For him to die in a self-sacrificial way would undercut Kaladin's growth by just giving him what he used to want.

[@ShursGarden]

Well yeah, Kal isn't gonna be a Herald. He's next in line to be Honor himself.

[@ThatRedHead717]

lowkey though... I hope Dalinar does lose the contest because I want to see exactly what a Bondsmith Unchained working directly for Odium is capable of. Like bro could rock up to Nalthis and murder *literally everyone* on the planet. That would be so incredible to watch. I know we won't ever get to see that but like... it'd be cool as hell

[@ryanratchford2530]

I really worry about Syladin. I don't want it to happen, it's unneeded and feels weird. But I think there's a 51% chance of it happening. Especially after the sample chapters. Spoilers for all the B5 sample chapters... Over the last few days (time skip between B4 & B5) Syl has apparently rapidly become more mature & started to prefer to be human size. That's told to us in a very clunky (told not shown) way. I worry its Brandon's attempt to ease us into it. Random other thought about the B5 sample chapters. Does anyone else think the Jasnah chapter is weird how it abruptly backpaddles Hoid & Jasnah's relationship? It almost feels like a soft retcon but done in-world. I knew that a lot of people didn't like the Hoid & Jasnah relationship in B4 (mostly because it seemed to come out of no where and didn't fit either character) I sort of agree but feel like Brandon had their relationship in his mind for decades before even starting the series and discovery writing Jasnah's canonical character. E.g., Her relationship in Way of Kings Prime. Maybe Jasnah & Hoid was a late-game romance in his head in the original series & so he kept it as a plot point for B4 but maybe because of the audience reaction, he's decided to backpaddle maybe because he agrees with the reaction that it no longer fits the characters? or writing B5 has made him think they don't fit? I just think it's really weird to think that Brandon originally intended for JxH to become a couple during the B3-B4 timejump only to have it be explore in one scene in B4 and then end it immediately in their first scene of B5.

[@logicbugs9452]

where can i read these?

[@brewster_4]

I'm not sure about Syladin happening. I was so sure Kaladin and Shallan were going to get together at the end of Oathbringer, but then it didn't happen

[@vadersnemesis]

I truly don't understand the Syladin hate or the hype for Kaladin/Shallan. It's like we read completely different characters

[@longshot9757]

According to Michael Kramer, it's pronounced "Tuh-LEN-uh-lot" (len as in ben)

[@jimmyrome908]

Incidentally it's Dalinar so it is 100% Deontological Ethics. It's not even a question.

[@Richardiii2]

There is a bit more evidence for the Gavinor Theory. If you actually pay attention to what Gavinor says in RoW, he is extremely bitter and wants to kill Moash. I don't necessarily agree with the theory but will say Otium appears to have more power over people who are hating. The second thing to keep in mind is that Brandon is on record as saying a lot of the death rattles are referring to events in the second arc, so there is no reason to assume that the "knife to the child's throat" one is referring to something that is going to happen in Book 5.

[@amandadamatta_]

Imagine Syladin being a thing and Syl going through whatever Ishar is doing so she can become a being with physical matter and thus be able to be with Kaladin physically (if you understand what I mean) 😂😂😂

[@Kat-gp6gj]

Really recontectualizes that scene in RoW where Kaladin imagines himself in bed with a woman while Syl sits on the headboard shouting encouragement and advice 😂

[@Ghost-Toast819]

Im with you on Syl and Kaladin but i would argue that the set up is there. first of all syl is as obsessed with kaladins love life as many readers are and they continue to bring up his lonve life through kaladin throughout the series which would be a problem if it is not improtant to the story. also in addition to their realationsip in general, syl disguises herself as a human in Oathbringer giving readers an image of what syl would be as a human. lastly the end of RoW we see ishar working on experiments to bring spren into the physical realm and the most successful of those spren is an honor spren like syl. Let me be clear i do not want syl to be with kaladin in that way but it would not be the first time romance has blossomed in strange places in the cosmere and im not sure it will be the last. the path and the teasing has been offered so to me it doesnt seem taht far fetched. personally tho id love kaladin to end up with ryn. she is unable to walk which contrasts kaladins flighti. she has a pet dragon thing which would enable flight in the long term meaning a bond between her and kaladin in that way. she is quite posotive which kaladin needs and enjoys adventure and has an imense sense of duty just like kaladin. they are also about the same age.

[@Revanshard4501]

Honestly, I didn't even know Sylladin was thing until this video, but thinking about it, I have to disagree with your take. I think it could definitely work, if done right. Ironically, part of what you said is part of what convinced me. They are already in a more intimate relationship than most married couples are capable of. It wouldn't be difficult for that to grow into actual romantic feelings, and contrary to popular belief, that doesn't mean they would have to be sexual in any way (which is good, because I'm not sure how that would even work if they did, based on their fundamental difference in...existence, really.) All that to say, you've convinced me to board the Sylladin ship. I'm probably just hanging out in a slightly different compartment than most of the artists that were referenced in the video.

[@Axartsme]

I genuinely think Syladin would be the worst decision Brandon could make. Thoughts on the theory that Dalinar will forge a shard like War or Unity at the end of book 5? Not a fan of it myself

[@s.p.8508]

I’ve heard that one, I really don’t want that. I honestly don’t think he would do that because he’d essentially just be ripping off one of his own series endings.

[@garrettsoutham7361]

Uh oh, does this mean that you think "Moash Redemption Arc" goes in the good theory pile?

[@genericallyentertaining]

Nah, I just ran out of time to mention it. If he does get a redemption, I'd imagine it would be in books 6-10, because otherwise there's just...not enough time. I don't think anyone seriously wants a cliche "redemption" in the next book where he just saves someone's life just before dying himself, which is why I didn't really think of it as a "theory," just something bad that could happen (although it probably won't, because Sanderson is usually better than that.)

[@coronin8587]

@@genericallyentertaining I genuinely feel that if Moash gets a redemption, it should come across in flashback interludes across books 6 through... Whatever book the Dustbringer one ends up being.

[@snagsTS]

If we're looking at a suckling child Oroden is a better match. Not saying he will be I'm just saying people are being a bit blind just staring at Gavinor. Might just be Oroden is the suckling child and Taravodium uses him in his final play, creating conflict between Kaladin and Dalinar. Not my theory, just playing on what has been said here. How he will get Oroden to willingly be his champion is an entirely different conversation.

[@thermophile1695]

The reason I thought people were into the Gavinor theory was because TOdium found a way to guarantee getting what he wants, which I interpreted as finding a way to force a draw for the duel.

[@GrantDavis]

...That's an awesome location... Cool video too, but I couldn't stop wanting to go on an adventure outside behind you.

[@jonathanandgabrielsovereig5051]

Ok, I don't really ship Kaladin and Syl, BUT I honestly have a hard time with the idea of him having an intimate relationship with someone else when he is already so bound up with Syl. This is why I could see them having a romantic bond, but I also think Kaladin's character doesn't require a girlfriend to be complete.