Learn more about the 1961 Tempest and its unusual drivetrain, including the 195ci Trophy 4-cylinder engine, "rope" driveshaft, and rear transaxle.
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@kevinbarry71 Жыл бұрын
This cars layout is discussed in the movie, my cousin Vinny. Turns out to be rather important to the plot
@soaringvulture Жыл бұрын
It was only important because it got Marisa Tomei a well-deserved Oscar.
@megastick93245 ай бұрын
No, that’s a totally different iteration. What was discussed in the movie was posi-trac rear end vs open diff rear end. Those cars were more akin to the chevelle of the time than the 61 tempest, a league of its own.
@paradoxworkshop46595 ай бұрын
@@soaringvulture although, hearing her say 'shaft' might have been nice.
@KDoyle43 ай бұрын
No, that was the true mid-size car that replaced this "senior compact" for 1964.
@757boing Жыл бұрын
I've been a car guy my whole life,70 years,and I never new about the unique drive train of the Pontiac Tempest.Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
@williamlittle7987 Жыл бұрын
My dad had a 62 Lemans with the 4 cylinder 1 barrel and 4 speed..when i was a young teenager..i would help my dad do maintenance on the Tempest...in exchange he would take me out to a empty parking lot to teach me how to drive the Tempest...that was one of the most fun times driving that awesome car !!!
@SnifBelch Жыл бұрын
My 85 year old uncle said it was his favorite car, and he said it was the four cylinder. It's neat to have just been talking to him about his favorite car the other day and I am now getting a chance to look at it! Thank you for your reviewing it!!!
@Ed_Stuckey Жыл бұрын
My younger brother had one. He referred to it as rubber band drive because of the strange noises coming from the floor when he did hard acceleration. He said the thumping was the rubber band unwinding. (jokingly or course) - I had a 1965 Corvair Corsa so we were both driving 'unconventional' cars.
@joed59015 ай бұрын
I think it was a real nice simple economical car that I wouldn't mind having today!
@RobertRuhe-ep6lw4 ай бұрын
@@joed5901v v
@DSP1968 Жыл бұрын
I've always been kind of fascinated by these early Tempests due to their unique engineering. I'm glad you covered it, Adam.
@tiki_trash Жыл бұрын
My friend has a photo of his father in a 4cyl Tempest doing a wheel stand at the Christmas tree back in the 60s!
@tiki_trash Жыл бұрын
Any parts you could get for the Pontiac 421 you could get for the slant 4 and you got a forged and balanced crankshaft from the factory.
@toddbonin6926 Жыл бұрын
Totally agree. I always thought if GM had continued with this kind of innovation, they would still be the world leader.
@sp-yj5wr Жыл бұрын
Its too bad our great grandparents never bought great ideas like this and instead bought old tech land yachts. Similar to today with huge useless trucks/SUV's. Progress stalls if customers all buy the same thing. Of course, greed ruined the US car industry too.
@tiki_trash Жыл бұрын
@@sp-yj5wr They did buy these cars. They were among the most popular and most affordable cars of their time.
@jhaedtler Жыл бұрын
When I was a kid I bought one used from a neighbour, I only paid $75.00 for the car. He was told he needed a new transmittion! The drive shaft cover had just came loose at the engine. Cost to repair was one bolt! I loved that car.
@herbienbrian217 күн бұрын
Did you also buy a house for a whim and sell it for profit? Hows your 401k doing lately
@jhaedtler16 күн бұрын
@@herbienbrian2 Have you been an idiot all of your life?
@KevinCoop1 Жыл бұрын
When I was 7, my grandmother bought a Tempist with the 4 cyl and automatic transaxle. The shifter was a small handle sticking out of the dash. As far as how much power it had, I would have no idea. Her TOP speed was 45 mph. No matter back then the limits were 70 and 65. My older brother and I went on a 500 mile each way trip with her! We watched the small animals run past as she drove! Not really, but it felt like it.
@524kirkd Жыл бұрын
We always joked that if my grandmother was as ever in an accident it would never be because she hit someone. She drove so slow that there was plenty of time to get out of the way. 😂
@dansmusic5749 Жыл бұрын
This must have greatly extended the service life of her Tempest. lol
@TexJester-no8th5 ай бұрын
My gramma wound up with a 77 Mercury Grand Marquis with the big 460 engine. Her top speed, regardless of speed limit - 35 mph!! And she never used her mirrors ... I drive a truck (18 wheeler, flatbed, 40 years now), and one day while going through town, I spotted gramma in her land yacht, pulled up beside her and tooted the horn - she JUMPED! She told me later she had no idea I was beside here, even though I drove my BIG International truck beside her for FIVE BLOCKS!! 🤣
@tdvandy2 Жыл бұрын
I have been a car guy my entire life and have learned more from your channel in a couple of years than in all the years prior. Thank you, Adam.
@RareClassicCars Жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@madmike2624 Жыл бұрын
I second that! Outstanding videos!!
@UberLummox Жыл бұрын
That's great! Most "car guys" are sadly lacking in automotive history knowledge. Great channel for sure.
@UberLummox5 ай бұрын
@@TomSpeaks-vw1zp Right on!
@TomSpeaks-vw1zp5 ай бұрын
@@UberLummox Thank you. I’m an 82 year old car guy. There’s always something new & interesting
@Primus54 Жыл бұрын
My family bought a ‘61 Tempest automatic with the Trophy 4 as a second car. In addition to the strange drivetrain, the gear selector was mounted to the dashboard with a very short perpendicular handle. I was only 7 at the time but I remember it well enough to attest to the pronounced vibrations from that motor. Thank you, Adam. 👍👍👍
@stevegordon5243 Жыл бұрын
Yes! As a very young child I pushed the dashboard mounted Reverse button on our Tempest as we were going down the road at 35mph. My dad thought for sure the transmission was left on the ground behind us but it was not and it did not affect the transmission what so ever........LOL!
@davidpancerev9658 Жыл бұрын
Yes my uncle Nestor had a '63 2dr (4)..I too recall the inherent vibrations..a true cocktail shaker !
@beer1for2break3fast4 Жыл бұрын
Yes you're right and if I recall there was no park, just R,N,D,L
@kenmarsh2668 Жыл бұрын
Your correct on the shifter. I was in high school when my folks got one and took it on many a date. Got my license with our 56’ Ford Fairlane Victoria but I really enjoyed the Tempest; wanted a Le Manns when they came out. Regards
@Primus54 Жыл бұрын
@@kenmarsh2668 Ahhh… memories! 😉
@dvdosterloh Жыл бұрын
Trans was from the corvair, they used a hollow shaft with the "rope" running through the center of the transmission to transmit the power to the torque converter literally feeding the power in from the rear. In the corvair the torque converter was driven from the other end. So really Pontiac did not develop a new trans, they used the trans and some of the rear suspension parts from the corvair
@LongIslandMopars Жыл бұрын
Thank you!! I thought that would be the case (the transaxle being from the Corvair). After all, it was still General Motors.
@martinliehs2513 Жыл бұрын
That trick of driving the Corvair transaxle from the rear allowed the Tempest engine to rotate in the conventional direction.
@mrdanforth3744 Жыл бұрын
Pontiac considered making a modified Corvair as a Pontiac but rejected the idea. Instead they developed the Tempest which had a lot of Corvair in it. The body was modified Corvair, the transmission and rear suspension and possibly the front suspension.
@clarkinthedark1 Жыл бұрын
So it was a powerglide?
@bruce2900 Жыл бұрын
I learned to drive on a 61 Tempest. It was my Mom’s computer car. I was in the car when it was totaled on hill in upstate NY. My Mom used the transmission to slow her decent on ice by manually shifting down, the rear end basically locked, and proceeded to swap with the front, then slid into a culvert. I was a junior Motörhead and was aware of the unique drive train. Thanks for triggering some very precious memories. Excellent video.
@foxtrot312 Жыл бұрын
A COMPUTER car? WTf?😮
@chrispnw2547 Жыл бұрын
I can't say it enough. Thank you for your channel as it does something magical: entertaining and educational.
@christianheidt5733 Жыл бұрын
Agreed!
@jamesbusch566 Жыл бұрын
Agreed
@sunbeam8866 Жыл бұрын
As a teen in the early '70s, while staying at high-school friends home for the weekend, I saw their neighbor had one of these Pontiacs in navy-blue. She gave me permission to look under the hood. Wow! I'd never seen a 'tilted' 4-cylinder like that one. I didn't know about the unique drivetrain or transaxle until the late '80s, when I saw a '63 Tempest up on a lift in a shop, with the engine running. Watching that naked torque-converter spinning behind the rear-end was something else! It's the kind of engineering we should've had in the '70s, but didn't!
@mpetersen6 Жыл бұрын
The quick and dirty way Pontiac engineered the four cylinder lead to a number of its quirks. The large displacement due shafting the bore and stroke with the 389. The Trophy Four is a very large and heavy for a four cylinder given its origins. The only inline automotive four cylinder with a larger bore center l can think of is the 3 liter four used in the Porsche 944. And as I understand it that motor was derived from the V-8 used in the 928. Myself l would refer to engines such as the IH and Pontiac four cylinders as true Slant engines given the pan rail is horizontal while the cylinder bank is inclined. Versus those engines which are merely leaned over.
@gt-37guy6 Жыл бұрын
You are right, I would have LOVED to have an OHC six in my 70s car that actually performed like DeLoreans Sprint 6 4 BBL, put in a darn OVERDRIVE GEAR and you could get some milage and have fun too!
@mpetersen6 Жыл бұрын
@@gt-37guy6 In the 70s l doubt you are going to have anything that really performs all that great. It wasn't until electronic controls of ignition and fuel delivery came of age that real performance started coming back. Plus the US auto industry was really slow on going to Fuel Injection.
@sunbeam8866 Жыл бұрын
@@gt-37guy6 Yeah! instead of an OHC six, we got the malaise-era! Oversized, overweight, sluggish & thirsty, wallowing barges, with just the Pinto & Vega to take on Toyota, Datsun & Honda!
@jameslandry5952 Жыл бұрын
@@mpetersen6Hahahahaha! You had performance up until around '72 when the communist organized EPA CAME ON THE SCENE!!! 🙄
@buttguy Жыл бұрын
a crossflow inline 4, in a car with 4-wheel independent suspension, and a nearly 50/50 weight distribution thanks to the transaxle. Period tests reported about 24 MPG as well. Honestly if they would have gone with a more conventional displacement for the 4-cylinder, something more optimal in the 2-2.5 liter range, this would have been a perfect car, and a serious contender for an import killer. Beautiful styling to boot! Hands down probably my favorite GM car of the era, and one I'd absolutely love to have. I never realized the driveshaft was so unconventional. Wish the innovative and adventurous era of a GM that really thought they could never be beat would have never ended...
@sneff1052 Жыл бұрын
I have never understood why the american auto maker all produced contra flow inline 4 and 6 engines. Was there any advantage over the cross flow head design? It probably would have increased the efficiency and smoothness of these engines by a lot.
@NBSV1 Жыл бұрын
@@sneff1052The advantage was cheaper to produce. You only have to machine one side of the head and packaging can be easier since the intake and exhaust is on the same side. They weren’t really concerned about performance since the small engines were considered just the economy base models so low cost was the main focus.
@buttguy Жыл бұрын
@sneff1052@@NBSV1 to be fair, a reverse flow engine does (allegedly) burn cleaner and has better volumetric efficiency than a crossflow engine, and since nearly every american car at that point was carbureted, the fact that the intake and exhaust manifolds were usually directly connected to one another would make starting easier in cold weather. I do believe serviceability was another consideration, especially when you look at the big blank side of, say, a Chevy inline 6 with incredibly easy-to-access spark plugs, coil, oil filter, starter, distributor and fuel pump, but kind of a silly one as a crossflow inline engine is usually every bit as easy to work on if it's designed well enough.
@sp-yj5wr Жыл бұрын
...And GM could have kept improving it too but difficult to do when no one buys it. Its too bad our great grandparents never bought great ideas like this and instead bought old tech land yachts. Similar to today with huge useless trucks/SUV's. Progress stalls if customers all buy the same thing. Of course, greed ruined the US car industry too.
@mikebronicki8264 Жыл бұрын
@@sp-yj5wrI'm with you on the SUVs and trucks. As a used car buyer it really limits the field of available options.
@wingsley Жыл бұрын
One detail you did not cover: how many units of this model did Pontiac sell?
@FaeraOthronus Жыл бұрын
According to Hemmings they sold around 375,500 of them
@detroitdan8487 Жыл бұрын
Thanks, Adam. My very first car. Dad bought this for me used in 67 so I could get to college in the Upper Peninsula. It was a good, roomy car. Automatic gear shift was on the dash. Two speed automatic made passing cars on state roads an interesting proposition. If you tried flooring it to pass, the trans down shifted to low making you go slower. So, you had to leave 6 or 7 car lengths distance from the vehicle you were passing, wait for clear road ahead, gently increase pedal pressure to get up to passing speed, and if the road was still clear you could pass. Excellent car in the snow.
@dansmusic5749 Жыл бұрын
This is yet another example of a car that I used to think was ugly. That picture of the red Tempest with fender skirts is very beautiful and classy right down to the wheel covers. It’s a part of the past that is too distant even for me. I really think the late fifties and early sixties were some of the most interesting years for automobiles and American culture.
@lostpony4885 Жыл бұрын
Modern cars are uglier every year making old ugly cars look a lot better
@johnmaki3046 Жыл бұрын
Well, it LOOKED great...
@MichaelLSeery Жыл бұрын
Pontiac also offered some "sports car" options on the LeMans version: streamlined "Talbot" exterior mirrors, a real oddity at the time, and a frameless wraparound competition windshield for the convertible, absolutely unheard of. This did a lot to raise awareness and demand for road-race styling, in the era of the Mustang I.
@johnwilburn8319 Жыл бұрын
Yes,I think the most beautiful art in automotive history was created between 1955 and 1966.
@dansmusic5749 Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelLSeery Thanks for the additional info.
@Sedan57Chevy Жыл бұрын
The era when GM's engineers were willing to try different ideas. I'm sure some of the Trophy's power vs other inline motors was the fact that it had a cross flow head. I've always really loved the looks of these early tempests, a long with the other '61 compacts.
@j.kevvideoproductions.6463 Жыл бұрын
I would like to see american auto makers step outside of their comfort zone of copying foreign vehicles and become trendsetters once again.
@adotintheshark4848 Жыл бұрын
It's a shame they couldn't use a counter-balancer inside the engine. It would have quieted its vibrations immensely. All of the early 60s GM compacts were handsome cars.
@HighlanderNorth1 Жыл бұрын
Although you don't see them around, I think the '61 Pontiac Ventura looks great. It's a midsized car though. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5CzhXmPedlmjq8
@ednauseum3060 Жыл бұрын
Oh, GM engineers are STILL "experimenting" - take the 2-ton HUMMER EV battery, for example....🙄🤣😢
@sp-yj5wr Жыл бұрын
Its too bad our great grandparents never bought great ideas like this and instead bought old tech land yachts. Similar to today with huge useless trucks/SUV's. Progress stalls if customers all buy the same thing. Of course, greed ruined the US car industry too.
@charlesb7019 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting! I had heard of that “rope”, but never really understood how it worked. Thanks for explaining!
@bwtv147 Жыл бұрын
It was often called the "speedometer cable" drive shaft.
@larsongh Жыл бұрын
I a ‘62 convertible that bought I ragged condition. I restored it whit white paint and a red vinyl interior. Wish I had not sold it. It was fast and fun! Thanks for the video!
@88SC Жыл бұрын
In one magazine article that was published at the time of the car’s introduction, it was pointed out that the curve in the shaft matched the bow that you would get from gravity by supporting each end of the driveshaft on a sawhorse. So the two bearings didn’t impose the curve by force, but merely kept it in place inside the housing. And of course, the angle at which the engine and transaxle were mounted aligned with it.
@donQpublic Жыл бұрын
And it spun around like jump rope!
@charlesangell_bulmtl Жыл бұрын
@@donQpublic Chief in reefer?🤨 No, with it supported bearings in a rigid housing, no such silliness. Any whip would have had to have been minor. Actually...length of the shaft & the controlled flexibility probably aided vibration dampening....There's you some (engineering) magic to ponder.... Now I have to see why the bearings suffered.
@88SC Жыл бұрын
@@charlesangell_bulmtl naysayers will assume things, but what would be fun is to observe one that has windows cut in the torque tube, running on a chassis dyno. With and without bad bearings (within reason). Obviously not on a relatively pristine car, except by replacing the car’s own tube with a cut up spare! One could do a modal analysis as well. Given that the shaft has to align with the engine and transaxle, it won’t move around too freely.
@sp-yj5wr Жыл бұрын
Bearings are better today, but there is still no such thing as a lifetime or maintenance free bearing.... (well, except maybe full 100% ceramic bearings)
@geekthesteve6215 Жыл бұрын
@@donQpublic Nope, smooth as silk in the one I owned.
@ffelton Жыл бұрын
Fascinating vid Adam. I’m constantly amazed at not just the high quality of your videos as far as the production goes, but moreover the creativity and amazing insight you provide viewers with each topic you explore. You taught me - a serious 60’s/70’s era Pontiac devotee - something I didn’t know and I can’t thank you enough. Keep up the good work!
@RareClassicCars Жыл бұрын
Thanks again!
@radioguy162011 ай бұрын
Another interesting Pontiac fact you might not know is the 67 Firebird 3 speed trans was a Ford Mustang unit, Had both cars with the same tranny, seems Jim Delorean specified it knowing the Chevy unit was not as strong.
@michaelbrown5601 Жыл бұрын
I first learned about this vehicle from Marissa Tomei.
@turdferguson4124 Жыл бұрын
The car at 0:59 almost looks metallic mint green.
@soaringvulture Жыл бұрын
What a great way to learn about a car.
@danweyant49093 ай бұрын
Are you shoe-ah?
@jetsons101 Жыл бұрын
That was my first car, very used..... Mine had the 215, I think it was alumiuum, it was fun car, just be careful with fast sharp turns.... Thanks to Adam for posting...
@AbcDef-iq4no Жыл бұрын
In my opinion, the 1960 Corvair was created as a direct competitor to the VW Beetle, whereas the 1961 GM compacts were direct competitors to Ramblers, which gained quite a bit of popularity in the late 1950s especially after the 1958 recession.
@johnking6252 Жыл бұрын
Strange that you mentioned the 1958 recession in retrospect. 👍 Same as it ever was.
@charlesangell_bulmtl Жыл бұрын
A GD shame Nader screwed that pooch...It was a very well executed car considering it a GM 1st. Actual problem: Nader(aspiring political noob) / inexperienced with rear weight bias (noob) public. A far better execution than it's descendant Vega... Had GM not cheep assed with the Briggs and Stratton engine and built the Vega with a V8 capable front substructure...they would have had a winner👍
@nlpnt Жыл бұрын
@@charlesangell_bulmtl Lee Iacocca killed the Corvair. If anything Nader indirectly put its' body on life support. People wanted their "sporty" compact with conventional engineering and long hood/short deck proportions, Mustang was that, and by the time Nader's book came out GM had already zeroed out the Corvair development budget and launched the crash program that led to the 1967 Camaro. If it weren't for Nader, the last Corvair might well have been the 1966 model. GM built 3 model years' worth out of pure spite and not wanting to be seen as capitulating to an activist. He did screw the pooch by spoiling the 2000 election, though.
@toyyoda3710 Жыл бұрын
@@charlesangell_bulmtl No ... The Corvair was garbage. it didnt even have independent suspension. It had these awkward seesaw designs that made the car handle worse than a shopping cart
@AbcDef-iq4no Жыл бұрын
@denniswilson8013 Those Larks sure were some bulletproof cars. I have always wanted one with the 289 V8.
@kevinvoyer5053 Жыл бұрын
Not mentioned in the video was the optional 3 or 4 speed transaxle that was also available in the Corvair, that in the 4 speed was robust enough for a 160 hp turbo engine. So with the 4cyl 4 brl carb, with an available 4 speed and 3:98 posi gears, along with the 4 wheel independent suspension, made for a sporty handling car. I remember a family in my neighborhood that would car pool us to school on rainy days. The mother had a 4 dr Tempest, that had plenty of room for 6 passengers, 7 once in a pinch of kids. The Dad in that family drove a LeMans Coupe, with the HO 4cyl with 4 brl carb and 4 speed with posi I remember getting a ride one day with his son and I in the car and Dad chirped the tires in second gear!
@dennisbrookssr2903 Жыл бұрын
An era when each divisions automobiles, both full size, and compact, had power trains, unique to their division…A great era for GM, and an Awesome era for the Customers. I turned 16 in the mid 60’s, and the Pontiac line, was my preference, because they truly did ‘Build Excitement’ in the 1960’s…Beautifully designed, and Exciting to Drive.
@markdc1145 Жыл бұрын
To be honest, these early 60's GM compact cars were just not on my radar as a kid. They were somewhat frumpy cars that an older teen going off to college or a newly widowed aunt would drive. Only now can I appreciate the interesting engineering they had. The Tempest grew into a truly handsome car by mid-decade and was a beast by 1969.
@carlosstinechez5338 Жыл бұрын
It was a Monster in1965 and the most beautiful
@rogerdodrill4733 Жыл бұрын
@@carlosstinechez5338same as gto with different name
@atikovi1 Жыл бұрын
Back in the 80's I had two 62 LeMans coupes and a 61 Tempest coupe. Even back then when they were just 20 something year old cars, nobody knew they were ever made. The 4 cylinder engine came in four versions. High and low compression, and one or four barrel carb. You could mix or match either one. Mine were all one barrel but always thought the 4bbl on a 4 cylinder would be cool. I bought a 4bbl manifold at a junkyard and a carb on Hemmings but sold the cars before installing them.
@jthampshire Жыл бұрын
Great story. On toque multiplication. Engine torque is multiplied by not only the torque converter but by the gear ratio of the transmission. A 3to1gear reduction equals a 3to1torque multiplication. So in the Tempest the drive shaft was always at a 1to1 torque ratio.
@RareClassicCars Жыл бұрын
Great point.
@analogdesigner Жыл бұрын
That four cylinder engine was good at destroying timing chains. My family owned two of these, a '61 and '62. The main culprit was the crankshaft which was compromised when the 389 crank was modified to be compatible with four cylinders. The crankshaft had poor torsional stiffness, it was a "banjo string"!. Every time a cylinder would fire, the flimsy crankshaft would whiplash the timing chain. I even tried a Cloyes Trueroller chain and even that didn't extend the life very much. The tiny drum brakes were a problem too, so I switched to metallic linings. Thanks for a great video.
@TaylorZ2 Жыл бұрын
Do you know if the modified powerglide trans (for rear mounting) had a park position?
@analogdesigner Жыл бұрын
@@TaylorZ2, no it didn't. The dashboard selector for the transmission had four positions, R N D L. The car did have a good parking brake.
@sp-yj5wr Жыл бұрын
US mfrs always look for a home run in the first year. If no homer, they dump the whole idea. Meanwhile foreign mfrs just look to get on base and then improve upon the design.....Its been a long game, but foreigners won.
@alsavage1 Жыл бұрын
@@TaylorZ2 No, it shared the no-Park design of the pre-existing Corvair transaxle with the same PG. Well, except the '63 Tempest with the 326, I hear.
@GeelongVic7140 Жыл бұрын
Ultimately Porsche used a similar half-a-V8 concept when it produced the large capacity four cylinder engine derived from the 5.0 L Porsche 928 V8 for the 944 engine. Unlike John DeLorean's concept and then Pontiac's development of the non balance shaft large V8 derived four cylinder, to quell the vibrations of their relatively large capacity 944 2,479 cc four cylinder, Porsche added a balancing shaft and additionally paid a technical patent usage licensing fee to Mitsubishi to allow the shaft usage. Ultimately Porsche grew the 944 four cylinder from 2.5L to the 3.0Lfour cylinder engine used in the Porsche 968. So even Porsche engine thinking was influenced by the clever, quickly developed Pontiac Tempest four cylinder.
@Raptor3388 Жыл бұрын
The 1976 Porsche 924 already had this set up, the 944 was more or less an upgraded 924. The 924 was initally as a project for Volkswagen, so it was meant to be an affordable parts bin sports coupe. In that way, it does share a lot with the Tempest.
@Flussig1 Жыл бұрын
Not to mention they share the torque tube as well.
@johnpotter8039 Жыл бұрын
We had a 1961 Tempest with the aluminum V-8 and the automatic transaxle. It ran very smoothly and we drove it for many years. One really big problem- no PARK position. Our town of Sierra Madre, CA, was laid out on a slope. I had driven the car to my part-time job as a janitor in a church. I parked the car on the slope with the front wheel turned in, up against the curb, and the parking brake fully latched. I was inside, vacuuming, when I heard a very troubling sound. I knew it was the car, and I ran out, imaging that it was rolling backwards down to the main street of the town. What had happened was different. The car had rolled in a 3/4 circle, with the wheels still turned, until it was pointing to the 4:00 position, then it rolled up over the curb and sidewalk, stopping in a bed of ivy. Wow! I dodged the bullet with that one.
@StupidFastTruck Жыл бұрын
When I think of the 1961 Tempest, I instantly remember Marisa Tomei in the movie My Cousin Vinny.
@bobhill3941 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the heads up, I recently watched that movie.
@chickenfishhybrid44 Жыл бұрын
Great movie
@soaringvulture Жыл бұрын
Positraction.
@325xitgrocgetter Жыл бұрын
When GM innovates....it returns to old tech in a few years. Corvair supplanted and replaced by the X-Body Nova and the F-Body Camaro to a lesser extent....and the Tempest....advanced architecture but returned to a more traditional layout with the introduction of the 1964 A bodies...The Tempest was a plot point in My Cousin Vinnie with it's independent rear suspension. . Personal connection to the 1963 Buick Special...my Dad's first new car....a "keys and a heater" special. Had the V6, a three on the tree and no radio or A/C. Eventually Mom convinced Dad to get a car with an automatic and air conditioning...and picked up a 1966 Impala Sport Coupe...which was eventually replaced by a 1970 Kingswood as our family grew.
@Low760 Жыл бұрын
Holden Kingswood?
@danielulz1640 Жыл бұрын
@@Low760Chevrolet Kingswood station wagon.
@325xitgrocgetter Жыл бұрын
@@Low760 Chevy Kingswood...nameplate used on the full size wagons in the US Market for a few years in the 60s to early 70s.
@paulgracey4697 Жыл бұрын
I owned a Corvair during the time when those Tempests were also around, and when working on it noted that its much shorter driveshaft passing through the differential to get to the gearbox just like the Tempest's did, was the same small diameter. Coincidentally two of my siblings had one each of the Pontiac Tempest and The Buick Skylark.
@thomaswallace479 Жыл бұрын
When I was in college, my parents became so alarmed by the rusted-out wrecks i was, they gave me my mother's '61 metalic brown Tempest. I loved it. It had good acceleration, good handling
@allareasindex7984 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for explaining this in detail. I’ve read one-sentence descriptions for years and finally know what a “rope driveshaft” is.
@Finnigan9 Жыл бұрын
I had a slant 4 Tempest 3 speed manual. GREAT car, drove nice, rode nice, good in snow...loved it.
@GereDJ2 Жыл бұрын
When I was 16 my dad bought a 4 door, 3 speed stick, white, 1961 Tempest. I loved it immediately and he actually let me take it out a few times, which I immediately raced with my friend who had a 1961, 6 cylinder Ford Falcon. The Tempest just edged it out. It seemed to have a little more torque although the Falcon was quicker out of the hole. As mentioned in the movie "My Cousin Vinnie", the 1961 Tempest did indeed have independent rear suspension and a Positraction transaxle. It was nice and clean inside and had a decent looking body. It would get near 30 mpg if you kept your foot out of it. Would love to have that car today.
@62Madison Жыл бұрын
I love the BOP unibody ‘Y’ bodies. The 215 Aluminum V8 the went the power Rovers for years. The Buick V6 that went on to power AMCs and then back to Buicks for years. The turbo Olds that didn’t go on to power anything and the Pontiac that you did a great job covering with its 4 cylinder which people preferred over the V8. GM really was on a roll in the early 1960s. I would love to collect all three, my favorite being the ‘62 Skylark hardtop.
@davidpancerev9658 Жыл бұрын
Watch out for the rust.
@davidpancerev9658 Жыл бұрын
Actually the Buick V-6 was adapted for Kaiser Jeep (67)
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
The original V8 based Buick V6 was rough too until reengineered later for even firing.
@billdurham8477 Жыл бұрын
Back in the 80's I worked for a parts store with a full boat machine shop. Steve The Wizard says hey can you hand me that block? Sure. I almost tossed it over my head I yanked so hard. Bare block was just a few pounds. Steve thought it was funny......And that was the basis for the Rover 3.5. And back in the day at Oshkosh there was a Bede-5 with that V8. Won best engine sound of show.
@cameronearnshaw2259 Жыл бұрын
Actually, AMC never used the Buick V6 in its cars. The engine tooling was sold to Kaiser Jeep in 1967, and AMC acquired it when they bought Jeep in 1970. The engine was used in AMC Jeeps for one year, after which they switched to the AMC straight six, but AMC still owned the tooling and sold it back to GM in 1974. The engine continued to be used in various GM cars through 1987.
@ced3098 Жыл бұрын
Impressive design , thanks for the video and also a beautiful car from the 60's
@The_R-n-I_Guy Жыл бұрын
I would love to have a Tempest with the Trophy 4, or a Corvair, or pretty much any GM car from the 60's truthfully.
@thomasallen6797 Жыл бұрын
I had a 1962 Corvair. Great little car.
@christinecrawford5 ай бұрын
That 59 Bonneville at the beginning - chef's kiss! It's beautiful! My dad had a convertible version for many years so it holds a special place in my heart. 💟
@jack002tuber Жыл бұрын
We had one of these. You should show the dash and the tiny flipper handle to shift the transmission. I guess it was a long cable to the rear.
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
Probably from the Corvair too.
@AlexanderWaylon Жыл бұрын
A man I worked for is married to the owner of a Buick GMC dealership and his wife owns a beautiful yellow Tempest convertible flawless in all aspects. I never had the opportunity to discuss the car at length, compared to his classic GMC trucks some being the V6 (which I owned one myself at one point), that he works for his construction company. My uncle had an F85 which had an aluminum engine, if I am not mistaken. Nice cars. Good video.
@paleghost Жыл бұрын
A lot of innovation from GM back then in these early compacts. Tempest, Corvair, turbocharged Olds F85 and Buick Special aluminum V8. The next Tempest generation was my favorite with the 230 CID overhead cam straight six. The Sprint version of the engine produced 205 HP. IMHO that engine was a lot cooler than the V8. The styling of that generation was sharp too.
@mpetersen6 Жыл бұрын
It's a shame that between the bean counters at GM and the lower hood lines of the 2nd generation F-Body the OHC 6 was killed off.
@mrspandel5737 Жыл бұрын
@@mpetersen6Thankfully if you ever wondered where the Pontiac OHC could have developed, look no further than the Australian Ford Falcon. Even the very last Turbocharged Barra I6 from 2016 is at its core a direct descendant of the 144 found in the 1960 Falcon, with 56 years of continuous, incremental engineering upgrades, first separate intake manifolds to accept better carburettors, a crossflow head in 1976, later an aluminum head with fuel injection, OHC in 1988 and finally the 24V Barra in 2002. A superbly dependable and rugged Motor, with amazing Tuning potential
@mpetersen6 Жыл бұрын
@@mrspandel5737 Oh I have. Along with the 232/4.0. The 4.0 equipped with a DOHC 24V head is used for racing in Argentina. Along with Chevy and Ford inline 6s using the same basic head design.
@gcrav Жыл бұрын
Was that the same engine Pontiac used in the Banshee concept car? That was a project of Zora Arkus Duntov and is said to have reflected the direction he thought GM should have taken with sports cars rather than the C3 Corvette that followed, which was a glorified straight-line muscle car. The Banshee is an intriguing car that reminds me of the Datsun 240Z and presents a lot of "what if" questions.
@michaelhurley3333 Жыл бұрын
@@mpetersen6 when I was around 10 or so my brother in law had an early Temptest, not sure which engine but it would raise the front wheels off the ground, I remember that part fairly well!!!!
@ohio0610 Жыл бұрын
Love this video. I have a 61 Tempest sedan that absolutely adore for its uniqueness and quirkiness. The engine does have some vibration issues, but overall nothing horrible. It also has pretty good ride quality for a car of that era with its 4-wheel independent suspension.
@DavidSmith-vm3cu Жыл бұрын
Another innovation of this car was it was assembled on the same production line as the full-size Pontiacs at the plant in Pontiac, Michigan. Lots of innovative tooling to accommodate two different wheelbase and tracks, etc. I got to tour the line in 1961 while in high school. My uncle who worked at Pontiac suffered a puncture of transmission pan in Canadian wild, plugged with bubble gum and made it to dealer. A friend had 63 with 326 V8, which was a de-bored 389. Fun on Woodward Avenue.
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
Are you sure? The full-size cars were body on frame and the compacts were unit bodies and didn't share much other than some small bits like interior door handles etc. They did later assemble all the intermediates on the same line at least in Fremont but they were versions of the same car.
@mitchellbarnow1709 Жыл бұрын
We had one of these amazing Tempests in our High School shop class in 1977!
@cameronearnshaw2259 Жыл бұрын
My parents bought my sister a used '61 Tempest for her first car. It was slow-- 2-speed automatic transmission as I recall-- but actually drove quite smoothly once it got up to speed. It rode well due to independent suspension, but the rear swing axle meant that it had the same handling problems as the Corvair and the VW Beetle, though perhaps not quite as pronounced as the engine was in the front. But like the Corvair and the Beelte, the rear track got narrower-- and the center of gravity higher-- as the vehicle cornered. Not a problem when driven properly, but an inexperienced teenage driver going a little too fast was asking for trouble, and my sister found this out on a twisty road one afternoon. I was with her, along with another friend of mine. The car didn't go completely over-- the back end came around and she hit a dirt bank on the inside of the turn. That pushed the car over onto its side and it just stayed there. We were able to climb out the top window and push the car back over onto its wheels. Just scuffed up the sheet metal on the driver's side and bent an axle, and we drove the car home with a wobbly rear wheel.
@joemoore4027 Жыл бұрын
The father of a friend on mine who lived in LA back in the 70's was a GM engineer. One day he took us to the local dealer who was having trouble with an elderly woman's car making noise and no idea what they were looking at. It was up on the lift and it had the " rope driveshaft". It was the strangest thing I ever saw. His dad said take a look you'll probable never see an other one again ! he was right !
@johnplovanich9564 Жыл бұрын
I love your channel Adam.I am a petrol head from way back.I enjoy your content and thoroughness. Cheers mate from Eluethra, Bahamas.
@Daniel-lv8ze Жыл бұрын
I just appreciate that the trophy 4 was a cross flow engine. Something that couldn't be said for many other American inlines.
@67marlins Жыл бұрын
Excellent post. I really love the elegant, clean styling of the first Tempest. I'm a Ford and Mopar guy, but I'd love to buy a first generation Tempest wagon.
@tettazwo9865 Жыл бұрын
It is truly delightful to watch your videos as one notices that you actually know what your talking about!
@scrambler69-xk3kv Жыл бұрын
Just wish GM would have given these and the Corvair a park position. Parking brake would freeze in the winter because not having a park position, you had to use the parking brake to prevent the car from rolling away.
@freshdougg11 ай бұрын
I found this very interesting. My folks had Pontiacs in the 60’s and mom got the ‘62 Tempest station wagon in the divorce. I don’t recall the flattish floor but that car hauled me and her all over SE Wisconsin! By the time she traded it on a new Tempest T-37 in September 1970 (I was 9) that 62 was costing her a lot in various engine repairs. I just distinctly recall something with a clogged oil breather cap.
@UberLummox Жыл бұрын
They've always looked like such a grandma mobile. Love the plain jane '61 4drs. Tons of character!
@andrewadams488 Жыл бұрын
In 1962 the local Pontiac dealer donated a new Tempest to the high school for drivers ed. Quite a step up from the 1953 straight stick Chevy we were using
@jasonrackawack9369 Жыл бұрын
I cant see any Pontiac Tempest with that body style without thinking of the car in the movie "My Cousin Vinny"😅😂🤣
@justintyme7213 Жыл бұрын
Same here lol
@williamwixon Жыл бұрын
I had no idea! I had never heard this before! Absolutely fascinating. I’m not an expert, but I would never imagined an American automobile, build manufacture, creating such a freakish drive train. Pretty cool, pretty amazing! fun trivia! Thank you! 5/8 inch diameter driveshaft! Jesus!
@Dr_Reason Жыл бұрын
Note: Pontiac redid the rear suspension arms to be closer to a tailing arm and reduce the camber change of the swing axles in 1963. It seemed to have helped but then in 1964 they went to the new live axle car. Just one more example of fixing it just to stop making it.
@Piggypongtheavgeek Жыл бұрын
My father had a 62 tempest. Two door. Same color silver as the 4door you showed in the video. I have a picture of him standing next to it when he was a young man.
@sparkplug0000 Жыл бұрын
I knew about the rope driveshaft but you are the first person I’ve heard explain why it could be so thin. Very interesting, and that torque converter on the back of the transaxle! As your pictures show, this car also had independent rear suspension which was rare at the time. But in all my 63 years I’d never heard of that slant 4 engine!
@88SC Жыл бұрын
International Harvester derived the four cylinder for the Scout the same way. V8 with the left bank omitted.
@beer1for2break3fast4 Жыл бұрын
Yeah that torque converter was odd. If you looked under the rear of the car when it was running you could see it turning. When you put the car on a hoist the rear wheels folded in like a VW.
@kevinbarry71 Жыл бұрын
Engineers can do whatever they like to that engine, but as it is an in-line four, and given its size, those secondary vibrations are going to be a big problem. They would need a couple of balance shafts to handle that. Something that had not yet been invented. Revving the engine too high could probably disassemble it in a rapid fashion
@shiftfocus1 Жыл бұрын
Lanchester invented the counter-rotating balance shaft system in 1907.
@fob1xxl Жыл бұрын
My folks bought a new Pontiac Bonneville 4 door hardtop Vista Dome flat top. It was gorgeous! When the tempest came out, it was cute, but way too small for us. By the time my sister and I were out of the house and my folks decided to downsize, they bought a Pontiac LeMans 2dr hardtop in 1972.
@stephenholland5930 Жыл бұрын
Love the Bonneville Vista flat top, especially the '61.
@timothydigiuseppe1753 Жыл бұрын
Again, an excellent presentation covering a technical development I knew nothing about. Fascinating and thank you.
@fredflintstone8048 Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure exactly the year or the version of this tempest my father had. His came with a V-8, but still had the tube and the transaxle automatic in the rear. I recall it had some kind of performance insignia emblem with a checkered flag on the body advertising the fact that it had a V-8. He inherited the car from a relative that passed away. The car was a strong runner and enjoyable to drive. I worked on it for him. At some point it destroyed a rocker arm ball socket. I had trouble finding the part so I substituted a rocker from a small block chevy which worked well enough. They were fairly similar. If memory serves it did end up having transmission problems so was parked in his backyard for a couple of decades until finally being hauled away as scrap.
@rogerclyde2720 Жыл бұрын
The Tempest was a great little car when kept in good condition. It’s one of the first aluminum engine blocks was given to overheat damage quickly so it was very important to keep scheduled maintenance very up to snuff.
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
Back then a lot of people probably poured in the wrong kind of coolant and corroded the aluminum engine.
@martinneumann7783 Жыл бұрын
I did read an article about this car and its drivetrain in my German classic car magazine. Wtih your video I do know a little bit more. Thank you! Greetings from overseas - Martin
@lostpony4885 Жыл бұрын
Wow that half of 8 4 cyl is surprisingly cool configuration
@dvdosterloh Жыл бұрын
Another thing I learned is that by having a curve in the "rope" it didn't whip, if straight it would tend to whip like a jump rope or would have needed several more bearings or been much thicker. Engineering at it's best!. Also by connecting the engine solid to the tube and the tube being solid to the transmission, eliminated all but two front engine mounts and dampened the 4 cylinder shake. Talked to a former owner, he told me it was not uncommon to see the trophy 4 jump up and down as much as two inches at certain idle speeds especially since it couldn't twist much being connected to the trans so tight. Finally by cutting an eight in half the engine went down the same machining lines as the V8, line bore and all the cylinder machining and drill line for bolts, also the same with the head. Other than the crank and several peripheral parts it was quite cheap to build
@joes7968 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Adam for yet another comprehensive and interesting video. It is fascinating that Pontiac was allowed to proceed with such a unique product content given it’s use in only one vehicle. I also appreciate your Pontiac centric videos. They were such beautiful cars in the late 50’s and 60’s!
@adotintheshark4848 Жыл бұрын
Back then, even though GM controlled everything, each make was still fairly autonomous.
@christopherkraft1327 Жыл бұрын
Hello Adam, thanks for sharing this interesting & informative history lesson on the Pontiac Tempest!! 👍👍🙂
@73_f100 Жыл бұрын
This is a great video. Start to finish. Thanks for the effort.
@septembersurprise5178 Жыл бұрын
Was the manual transmission version mounted in the rear (transaxle)? If so it must have been an interesting linkage setup.
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
Probably a whole lot like a Corvair's.
@CFRoach5 ай бұрын
That's a good point, I would have liked to see that. I have the automatic version that just had a long cable.
@secondcreekworkshop3908 Жыл бұрын
My mom still has her Pontiac Tempest, well its in cubes along the fence line as a relative crashed it and totaled it and she had the scrap yard crush it into cubes, she also has the four cylinder (not crushed) the four barrel intake version.
@herrunsinn774 Жыл бұрын
Oh don't worry. All of that will buff right out. 😅🤣😂
@eddietucker3334 Жыл бұрын
Fond memories of my dad's 62 Tempest LeMans. Went on my first dates in it. I loved that car!
@jedsparks7324 Жыл бұрын
I had one, liked it. Had dashboard flip lever for changing gears
@hawk00055 Жыл бұрын
Hi Adam, Thank you for this wonderful video. If you could please make a video about the 1961 and 1962 Buick Special/Skylark and its wonderful all aluminum V-8 engine it would be great.
@johnleinen7167 Жыл бұрын
When I was a kid in the 60s, my neighbors had one of these it was blue and it sat in the driveway and didn't move from there for 35 years! It looked funny cause of the rear suspension caused the wheels to camber in and it had flat tires , it disappeared one day in the late 80s, this was in Downey ca..
@antera77 Жыл бұрын
1) 0:10 1959 Pontiacs just stunning, and way ahead of their time. Almost as much as the 1957 Chryslers 2) I get the impression the huge, rough 3.2 liter half-a-V8 four, and the transaxle / rope driveshaft -- came more from GM engineers experimenting with available parts--i.e. the Corvair transaxle reversed, than an optimized solution to a problem. Especially given the 215 cu in (3.5 liter) Buick aluminum V8 was readily available and fit under the hood, and it wasn't clear GM had any complaints about drive tunnel height.
@tonymaglio9376 Жыл бұрын
As A GM mechanic from the 80s. You never cease to amaze me with facts.
@N0Negatives4 ай бұрын
My dad had a '62 automatic. I got to drive it during high school in the mid 80's. My friends loved that car, so big for a 'compact'! When my brother drove it, he would put his surfboard in the trunk, with it closed.
@carlosdj4884 Жыл бұрын
Our 64 Pontiac convertible GTO Was a head turner a great fun to drive around the southbay Redondo - Hermosa Beach
@kayak63red34 Жыл бұрын
Wow, that was so intriguing! My Dad had one of these, I think a 1962. I wonder if the innovative stuff was known to him. It was just his work commute car, replaced by a 1966 Tempest with the beautiful GTO styling.
@wesalexander2693 Жыл бұрын
Great video, Adam, it brings back memories for me. My father purchased a then new 1962, two door Tempest with a manual transmission and the 192.5 cubic inch, 4 cylinder engine. In its day, as I recall, it was pretty quick. He had very few problems with it.
@richardstaples565 Жыл бұрын
Prior to the Tempest's intro, it was reported (by Popular Science, IIRC) that competitive corporate spies thought Pontiac was going to use torsion bar suspension, as they were stocking up with that alloy steel bar stock, LOL. In the early '60s as a young teenager, I worked at a local garage. One of these 4 cyl Tempests was towed in unable to start. I got to check it out, and discovered the timing chain had failed! I have since observed that the fewer cam lobes a chain or timing belt drives, the faster it seems to wear, probably due to the jerking forces the chain/belt endures, especially at low rpm. GM built some fascinating cars (Corvair Greenbriar, Rampside, Corsa, and Spyder, F85 Turbo, Toronado in the 60s.
@maxr4448 Жыл бұрын
Wow completely forgot out those cars. Thank You Adam... again for this. Great video and letting us remember these cars.
@carlosdj4884 Жыл бұрын
That Tempest was a great little car
@danreagoso3939 Жыл бұрын
When automotive engineers colarorated and came up with ideas and solutions . Products of the War ! Great men and minds.👏
@markhardin6186 Жыл бұрын
My first car in 1981 was a '62 two-door hardtop Pontiac Tempest Lemans - $500. Red on White, with that incredible, thick naugahyde upholstery mentioned below. Those deep, channeled seats were lipstick-red, just like the rest of the interior, it was a knockout to look at. The 1962 model had a pursed lip, chrome-edged fins, beveled fenders, that little 2-speed lever on the dash and socially incorrect red Indian dash light for the brights. It must have had the four-barrel on it, because those four cylinders drank like a proper Irishman. The engine vibration was just part of the experience. The weight of that iron engine was unkind to the front suspension, so the poor thing wallowed around like Aunt Myrtle in the kitchen. No problem with the drive train, boxed into its curving channel. By 1981 you couldn't buy replacement shocks - mine must have been original - so, i was cautious about the independent rear end. I sold it to a friend who wrecked it within a couple of months. But, I still have fond memories of that old girl.
@61rampy65 Жыл бұрын
The automatic trans in the Tempest was a slightly beefier Corvair Powerglide. The torque converter at the rear had no covering over it- if you looked under the car with the engine running, you could watch the torque converter spin. As someone else pointed out, in typical GM fashion, by 63, the Tempest was much improved, and then killed for 64. What I find amusing is the the Porsche 924 had the exact same layout as the Tempest, and all the car magazines hailed it as an amazing feat of engineering! The 928 even had a half-a-V8 engine. Lastly, I really wish people would stop calling it a "rope" driveshaft. It's more like a torsion bar combined with a speedometer cable. These were the days when GM could afford to be daring and experimental, but it also looks like when GM started killing cars as soon as they were fully developed.
@stevenlimbach3827 Жыл бұрын
Had one of these with the 4 banger ! Cute Red convertible. Was not fast, but rode pretty nice and was great for going to the lake in high school ! Sounded rather like a sewing machine going down the road as I recall. Had the thickest, most durable vinyl seats I have ever seen. In Wisconsin winters had to occasionally put a Sterno heater under the rear trans-axles so one side wouldn't freeze up and lock up one rear wheel. If it did, the car would make a nice 90 pivot, like a bobcat and end up sideways in the driveway ! Great memories,...neat little car !!
@larryfromwisconsin9970 Жыл бұрын
I owned that identical car in 1974. Same color, but faded by then. It was a good commuter. The two speed automatic transmission wasn't great for high speed but it was the time of the beginning of the 55 mph speed limit.
@emjayay Жыл бұрын
Once in high gear a two speed transmission isn't any different from a 3 (or more) speed trans, a 1:1 ratio.
@nedcrouch3202 Жыл бұрын
I have owned three 1963 pontiac tempest lemans, including a new one in 1963. Great car! John DeLorean's idea. Rope drive shaft. First "wide-track" Pontiac. Even 50/50 weight distribution, front and back. Transaxle. Gear shift lever slung under dashboard. No transmission hump. Fast as greased hell. One of my cars was a "slant 4," quiet and smoothe. The rope drive shaft made a distinctive noise--a muted nyah, sound. My first car, I took it back to the dealer, and they said, that's what these cars do. I got used to it, and even learned to love it. The 1963 was a realy good looking car. In 1964, they went with a full-sized car again: I never looked back.
@MrPoppyDuck Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the education! Very interesting stuff!
@Pauley_in_GP6 ай бұрын
Good video - as always, thanks for the memories. I was 10 years old when a friend of my mother bought one of these (light green), trading in his '54 Chevy. I remember that the Tempest felt kind of futuristic, inside and out to me - I think it was the first compact car I had ever seen or ridden in.