3D Printed Autonomous FPV Shuttle Glider

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[@rctestflight]

Looks like NASA got their flairs a bit more greasy than mine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnWohWaMqrlsoKc

[@sofiejensen3804]

One thing I noticed is that they say that they start the drop with full speed break to level out. I believe the virgin pod model does the same. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnWohWaMqrlsoKcsi=aoHC2XAjqSeVzoZr&t=90

[@brsrc759]

Bro please do a video building an RC version of the motor in this video > kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKatp6OimrKknZYsi=jffcn7eRH7dGxnwu

[@quartapound]

BUTTER! That just goes to show that... What does that go to show... You need more subscribers to get your R&D budget closer to NASA's!

[@phlatulance]

Food for thought:! The rotor wash from the quad is causing the initial instability since it is tailwind blowing against the control surfaces, causing it to use up altitude to get stable.

[@pinkpanther8427]

makes sense. any idea how to fix it best?

[@vinny5203]

longer string @@pinkpanther8427

[@phlatulance]

@@pinkpanther8427 From the drone, 2 thoughts. Guide rod angled away from the drone, or towing it like a glider and releasing. Both have their own challenges.

[@volkerracho7257]

Quick solution: Fly with a lot of forward speed during the drop

[@matthewconnor5483]

@@pinkpanther8427 Maybe two long rods to guide it and then keep the drone moving so their isn't a column of toward wash for the aircraft to be traveling through.

[@richardm.newlands2417]

Making delta-wing-shaped holes in the ground is something I excel at, so here's some painfully-obtained suggestions. Highly-swept deltas have vanishingly small inertia in roll, but a load of inertia in pitch and yaw. Their tiny wingspan also provides negligible roll-damping. This is a bad dynamics situation, so if they start to tumble, it's often game-over = flat spin/frisbee. Using aileron won't help you recover; it only makes it worse. We lob little 'shuttles' piggy-back off of model rockets using a catapult: if the release isn't clean and the delta starts to corkscrew, she's a gonner. The vertical tail on your seriously-cool 3D printed glider is way too small for the large yaw inertia, but that's an easy fix. Bear in mind that at high angle of attack, the fuselage is blanking off a lot of the flow to the tail, so folk tend to go with twin-tails. The high-frequency roll oscillation is what highly-swept deltas do as they're stalling. I call it 'wibble'. The vortices coming off each wing are battling it out over the centre of the upper fuselage. If you don't get the nose down sharpish, then one vortex will eventually win, causing the delta to roll right over. I've written some notes on this stuff on our website: www.aspirespace.org.uk/downloads/Winged%20rockets%20and%20boost%20gliders.pdf

[@scott_aero3915]

very useful response!

[@JaviRP97]

Really great content, Rick!

[@madcatmk213]

lets hope Daniel sees this

[@mythrillium2]

Is this why we don't really see delta wing aircraft used often, if at all? What you're describing exactly matches my experience with delta wing rc planes; supremely unstable, high speed required, be extremely cautious not to stall

[@richardm.newlands2417]

Thanks William, don't know about 'expert', just been doing it a long time! The thing about Daniel's brilliant vids is that we get to see exactly what's happening from many camera angles, and even from the cockpit. Watching this video lit-up so many lightbulbs: "Hey, I've seen that glider behaviour before, but never that clearly." Daniel's footage of the glider dropping off the drone was a real eye-opener.

[@Roboticwhale19]

The main reason I believe the shuttle designs don't work well is because the design of the space shuttle was made for hypersonic flight. Even while landing, the shuttle was moving very fast. Theres just not much lift in that design to get stable flight at low speeds. This is challenging stuff though. The one thing I might recommend trying is maybe a adjustable wing? So u could get more speed at a dive, and more lift while gliding... Kinda closer to an old fighter plane like the F-111 for example. Might be worth a shot!

[@cyberfunk3793]

Or try first with some traditional wing design modelling some known airplane and only try the delta wing stuff after succeeding with that. Longer steady glide path with less emphasis on the last second pull up.

[@Zeaiclies]

The Space shuttle enters Earths atmosphere at over 17,000 mph and slows itself down through a series of flight movements to final approach at 215 mph by 3,280 to 2,800 feet above ground. Final nose flare before touch down and arrester chute deployment is at 179mph and final roll out to a stop.

[@Rebar77_real]

The drop from a weather balloon at the edge of space is going to be epic! 😜

[@phlatulance]

There was a guy in Canada that did this a while back and it was pretty amazing. Had an automated return system. Sadly it was lost in the mountains.

[@Aviator747a]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKGln6ior9N5n9E

[@davidcatanzaro1019]

David Windestål also did this

[@gwheyduke]

That's an awesome idea !

[@HeroSnowman]

solar autonomous plane series continue when

[@esk1m0]

He’s teasing us with this

[@dontknow3886]

+1

[@TylerKaraszewski]

Summer maybe, when there's sun in the PNW.

[@_BL4CKB1RD_]

I will

[@oscarzt1652]

in the summer when there is sunlight probably

[@brealistic3542]

My father worked on the NASA Space shuttle. He was a mechanical engineer. He worked on the vibrations in the rocket turbo pumps and the heat shielding. He worked all his life trying to make a circler wing aircraft. The advantage of them is the huge speed range they can fly at. The one big trouble is "dutch roll" you can see the same effect in early lifting bodies. That is why NASA had to add the small wings. My father sent letters back and forth to Alexander Lip push the famous German aerospace scientist. The father of the Delta wing on the F,102 and F-106 and all other deltas. A brilliant man

[@megatesla]

For anyone building flat foam wings.... Add another strip of foam on top of the leading edge that is 50% chord or a bit less. And round the leading edge. This creates a KF airfoil (KFm-2) and it will fly way better.

[@vaelophisnyx9873]

better help is a scam. Stop taking sponsorships from them. They replaced most of their professionals with chatbots that just make things worse

[@d.jensen5153]

Be your own chatbot - is my philosophy.

[@chexo3]

Seriously. Their “professionals” were dubiously qualified in the first place.

[@ultra98000]

AND they sell your data

[@jossepililugo9476]

Yeah and they also sell private information about you to advertisers

[@JR-lg7fd]

therapy is just astrology for people who don't want to admit their problems are just the consequences of their terrible life decisions.

[@iamsick5204]

i bet the down wash of the drones blades is messing with the shuttles center of drag. its like throwing a dart backwards.

[@bobjove6511]

Falling with style

[@beavismount]

Dream Chaser's 2017 test flight used a three-point rig that released the vehicle while in stable forward flight. Your lifting-body planes spend half their decent just getting to stable flight, so a Dream Chaser styled release might benefit your tests.

[@madrigo]

One thing that would be super cool to do and very useful for a landing would be having a sensor measuring AoA. I know this because I've made the eletronics for it in the past but never managed to put it on something flying. Maybe my next plane will have it. With 3d printing capabilities, making a sensor like that would be very easy. Cheers for the great content mate!!

[@haydenc2742]

Is it just me...or does seeing the "drop" give you the willies? ooof! So cool though! Keep em coming!!!!

[@nadigaming1074]

play warthunder in first person

[@Srfingfreak]

Sometimes when confronted with destructive and yet iterative testing - it can help to have some "pre-iteration" done where you map out your experiment and have several test samples ready to go on test day.

[@robertcook5380]

I work on the actual dream chaser so I'd love to see that one finalized!

[@sparkequinox]

Rotor wash for sure is the biggest issue, you should do a short mission that moves from point A to B (then releases the plane) and have the quad move back to A. Like 10m movement and have the plane drop at the end of that point, at least you would only have the instantaneous wash and not the built up loiter wash.

[@larsulrich3356]

flat spin plane may be really fun to do pedal leaf turn stunts with an RC radio. May be one of the best ones you made.

[@rickbrasche8781]

I'm a big fan of vertical wingtips, they look old school and for paper airplanes as a kid, seemed to help stabilize roll

[@UltraNoobian]

I'll come back to watch later, but I'm expecting the "Aerodynamics of a flying brick"

[@Sn0w1981]

You could 3d print some little kerbals as crew. Best test pilots in the business!

[@davefb]

Watching those "landings", I feel a little Steve Austin (Bruce Peterson) would be more appropriate..

[@gwheyduke]

That landing at time 7:07 was excellent. Moving the CG back sure helped.👌🖖 Looks like the 3D printed plane needs a larger vertical fin, maybe even one under the tail to help tamp down the roll oscillations. You could even add a rudder with a gyro to help.

[@microjetmad]

You need a far bigger vertical stabilizer. That should stop the spiraling

[@zenengineer5803]

You make enough new airplanes that it might be cool for you to make a wind tunnel to test them in and fine tune the controller. Might make for a nice build video and help get more successes out of these builds.

[@beebo7071]

KZbinrs really gotta stop taking money from better help

[@Zeaiclies]

Why?

[@TheRealLosna]

My first thought would be to increase the vertical stabilizer. I have designed quite a few model airplanes myself, but never for this part of the flight envelope - so I may be wrong. However, this was my first thought.

[@johngoscinski1995]

100%

[@dianefair7941]

a small solid fuel rocket engine in the back of the foam shuttle would be great along with cameras

[@RyeOnHam]

Would love to see you try a skydiver / belly-flop system like the SpaceX Starship.

[@edheadgaming8411]

RCTF could team up with BPS.apace to make that happen!

[@Markus1406]

I'm here for exactly this kind of projects! MORE ITERATIONS! :D

[@caret_shell]

Hmm. Are home-made wind tunnel tests an achievable idea? Since a big issue here was repeatability, maybe there's something in between CAD and real life that could provide further data. It sounds hard to build a homemade wind tunnel that can do that, but Daniel and builders like him have shown that home engineers can do all kinds of tough projects.

[@kamipollna225]

Try adding a landing parachute that can also be used as a emergency parachute, Just in case The glide doesn’t really work and it goes into a tumble

[@Adrellias]

I wonder if some type of ground launch system wouldn't be better? Catapult or rocket motor? This way you are already in forward powered flight and then convert to gliding under full control?

[@RobSchmidt434]

I wonder if the downdraft of the lifting drone is setting it up for failure giving it less altitude to work with. I like the idea of dropping from forward flight where it starts off in a stable mode out of the gate. Probably would make things more predictable and tunable.

[@hotlapkyle]

Great video. Some negative washout in the wing tip will help. Then if you can incorporate a wing tip with dihedral

[@glenmiller1437]

Ya, I'm in agreement. Something needs to be designed into the wing/lifting body to so that it naturally seeks stability. I don't know if there is enough "wing" here to do what you suggested, but I think that's the right idea.

[@BrandoDrum]

I've loved watching you since you were a kid. You really maximize the possibilities of RC hobby grade equipment and open-source automation capabilities. A few small tweaks to your development goals and you could have a multi billion-dollar Defense/Defense Research company using your current skillset to shift the cost structure of short-range anti-drone air defense and front-line guided munitions. Not kidding.

[@nathantanti8283]

I remember sending you a email maybe 8 or so years ago with our own foam board design. One of my fave channels mate.

[@doctaotsu]

Hear me out: Downward facing catapult launcher on the drone to give the glider some initial airspeed. Maybe just something like a couple rubber bands to get it moving and give it a more consistent launch.

[@JoeGator23]

Use a longer tether to stay out of more prop wash and it will start flying sooner... that release cost too much altitude with the dirty air just below the drone. You can see it clearly everytime. Very cool.

[@Alex-sc6yy]

Attach a quick release weight on a servo and release when it's stable. And throw a flag or something on the weight so you can find it later.

[@janmessek1826]

you start off with the drone making a lot of down wind from the prop wash so why not use some forward speed and release in the proper direction like into the wind toward the clear landing area of the field.

[@jordillach3222]

Dihedral angle in the wing is the solution for roll axis stability.

[@HilmarLange]

You have to imagine that these aircraft were built to carry a pilot back then, completely without an Ardupilot and computer simulations. What a hero.

[@benmcreynolds8581]

Would it help to have the glider much further away from the drone before the drop. That might minimize the amount of turbulent roll it experiences from the quad copter?

[@FarSeeker8]

Maybe if it starts more horizontally it will fly better. Hook up the launch rail at something like a 30 deg. angle to the drone's level flight. Fix remote controlled clamp(s) on the rail that hold the glider in that position and release it from that angle.

[@toolbaggers]

No parabola for descent curve. A curved path of fastest descent under uniform gravity is known as the brachistochrone curve, which is a type of cycloid

[@panfilipelkooriginal]

True

[@KnowledgePerformance7]

They are controlling AOA, not position. There would need to be a controller to target position for this to be true, and it probably doesn't work because of aerodynamics

[@panfilipelkooriginal]

​@@KnowledgePerformance7I don't really think, that it is AOA, i would say that it is pitch, but I also agree with your comment. For the optimal path it should be based of some position system. I think that having some sort of system, that would meassure all of the flight parameter (as he mentioned in the video) and then it would compute the things to do in order to stay on the optimal path would be best, but also more challenging.

[@troypeterson1189]

I went through some of this waaaay back experimenting with Deltas and other flying wings. First, most of those models looked like they need much taller vertical stabs. At such low Reynolds numbers and short coupling, a small vertical doesn't have the authority to keep it pointed in the right direction with all of that wing wash spiraling up at the tail. The fact they never really achieved stability shows that. CG is also super sensitive at small scale like this, so there's a lot at play. I love your videos and you do awesome work so I commend the work involved to iron out the bugs!! 👏👍

[@nathan1sixteen]

So, one thing to consider is that the oscillation may be a result of over speed and not over tuning. You very easily could be exceeding the max speed limit of the aircraft, causing it to become unstable.

[@trafton00]

Add a larger tail fin to the 3d printed plane

[@msrt8]

I think a small ventral fin would help with the roll oscillations.

[@jetfuel3053]

I would want a small sensor that could sense air and calculate ANGLE OF ATTACK or AOA. Modulating this to near 1.00 just prior to touchdown would yield the flight you desire. But it would need a computer to sense air, direction, altitude, etc. Then you could program it for the ideal flight.

[@slateslavens]

so instead of gluing it together, consider "pinning" it with carbon rods. on each end, use a small spring, washer, and 'hair pin'. the springs provide the clamping force and when one part breaks, you may be able to reuse other parts. OFC, you could just print the pins in, but I have zero experience with 3D printing, so I don't know how well this would work.

[@poepflater]

I'm always late to the show. My only experience with gliders was a little circuit board I made for a friend who flew model gliders, it would beep a piezo if a servo movement drew the power rails below a preset limit, this way it would start making a noise before the batteries went flat.

[@whatthefunction9140]

Bro is bootstrapping the next Lockheed Martin and he doesn't even know it

[@cho4d]

ikr? casually developing glide bombs

[@lamarw7757]

@@cho4d ikr is one of dumbest sayings ever.

[@johnroyal4913]

try putting some winglets on. Also you might want to sharpen the forward strake leading edge and you need more or a flat top than a rounded one for lifting bodies to work best.

[@urnotaman4444]

.... This is the future......of rc

[@cameronhunt5967]

Figuring out some way to simulate the planes or another way to decrease iteration time would make this project easier.

[@enzoventer1922]

Something to think about:! Full scale the release is done from a forward flying aircraft. The tailwind from the quadcopter is probably a cause of instability.

[@rsquared9703]

I would entertain using PETG in place of PLA for your gliders. It’s a little more elastic and ever so slightly more dense than PLA. There might not be a whole lot of differences but it’s worth a shot.

[@bruceme101]

You might want to build a small wind tunnel to get the basic aerodynamic controls and tuning right before destroying the models with 400' drops. Wright brothers this thing!

[@johnanderson9128]

Could I request you have a second channel where it’s just the walkthrough of how you make all these amazing things, like not a in-depth tutorial but like high level so that we know what other tutorials to watch for specific things?

[@ParaglidingManiac]

Please please please make a autonomous POWERED high speed shuttle glider go waypoints! That would be so awesome!! Love your approach and passion!!

[@SC-mh5ix]

Also… thinking… should try aircraft computer simulator… a good one For ground effect… stall… free flight drops… Might help.💡🔦

[@m1t2a1]

Try launching a radio control Shuttle shape from an Estes model rocket. Worked for me, after a few decades. You just told me to make it work on Otto Pilot. Game changer.

[@dave20874]

I've been bingeing all your videos for the past couple weeks. I hope Spring brings a bunch of new content.

[@WetDoggo]

try adding features to improve the low speed stalling situation... like humps in the leading edge, which funnel more air across the surface. also, placing the antennas in front of the leading edge didn't do the airflow any good, since they cause irregular pressures

[@Gentleman_Jester]

Definitely try releasing it from an aircraft that’s got forward momentum. It will be so much easier to fly when you’re not starting off in a dive.

[@jdnic1]

try putting the vertical stabilizer on the fin. not the center. the blunt nose prevents some of the air going to the vertical fin, rendering it useless. hence why nasa put theirs on the wingtip.

[@ttttonyyyy]

Love that the failures are right there alongside the success. Never change.

[@scott_aero3915]

Good to see you back at this project - I enjoyed your previous attempts. I suggest perhaps some simple calcs up front to see if a simple tube with delta wings can be aerodynamically stable and at what speed. You'd think the shuttle would be as simple as you could go but I think you can go simpler.

[@bananadane]

Great video!. For some reason I started watching it after I first woke up and it turns out it was a really good way to get my brain ready to face the day. Maybe because of how you include all your experiments, not just the good ones? I'm going to try adding your videos to my morning routine and see if it helps. Thank you!

[@PMoney365]

Sweet! Happy to see the shuttle back. I printed the last one and it has been fun.

[@Razer_-fe9mo]

Yoo that Dream Chaser at the start looked sick! Shame it didn’t fly. Space Shuttle is awesome too!

[@nerys71]

I've designed and built aircraft like this in the past and I found an interesting problem that you have to account for in the design you can't use a central rudder or vertical stabilizer you need to use tip rudders or tip stabilizers or that central stabilizer needs to be about seven times taller The problem is your crank arrow delta is shadowing your vertical stabilizer so you essentially have a Delta wing glider that has no vertical stabilizer at all until the teams forward fight speed the wing prevents the stabilizer from seeing air so the aircraft flies as if it has no stabilizer I build a 14 ft long version of this that was a rocket glider very similar wing design and had the same problem I would get into a flat spin and it simply would not recover because the Delta wing shadowed the stabilizer it wasn't until the aircraft inverted exposing the stabilizer to the air stream that it then straightened out and of course crashed :-) The solution is to put tip stabilizers in the design that protrude both up and down this way no matter what orientation the aircraft is in some of the vertical stabilizer surface area is exposed to the air stream at all times this is one of the reasons why the space shuttle has such a gigantic vertical stabilizer in order to get it out of the shadow of the cranked Delta

[@nerys71]

This might also explain your role oscillation in the later model as you pulled up you were basically erasing more and more of the vertical stabilizer as you slow down and shadowed it with the wing although I'm not sure of that as long as you have forward airspeed you should be okay your solution might be as simple as putting a small stabilizer on the bottom of the fuselage so that no matter which side ends up facing the airstream on release you have some vertical stabilizer exposed to the airstream

[@johngoscinski1995]

Agree, the shuttle uses a super tall vert fin to get enough clean air. I'd start there. I bet he could test it just by taking the existing design and scabbing a piece of foamboard on up there.

[@nerys71]

@@johngoscinski1995 easier would be tip stabs. this eliminates the issue from all angles and is lower mass (lighter than a super tall central stab)

[@raybearden9594]

Try to integrate a high wing with some dihedral into your next iteration.

[@tobins6800]

Many full size aircraft use barometric altimeters ABOVE a certain height. Radar altimeters at lower altitudes, as at a certain altitude, they lose effectiveness. Baro is not stable enough close to the ground. If you have the means, fly over a pond/body of water to a grass field, then over a road, measure the barometric pressures at various altitudes.

[@Sawer]

Bro's been cranking out awesome videos like its nothing!

[@alexandregrynagier1762]

Hummm, i feel like i get a sense of where this blended wing design is actually coming from ;)

[@infinitytec]

You need something like the 747 used to carry the Shuttle for your approach and landing tests.

[@jackhydrazine1376]

Thumbs up for flying at 60 Acres Park!

[@Rosetown951]

This is my favourite channel on KZbin and today I learned I want even subscribed. It just always shows up in my feed.

[@jocax188723]

In the Space Shuttle’s defense, it also had all the best aerodynamic qualities of the average brick, so it being completely unmanageable in small scale is very much in character

[@pierro281279]

I think you're hitting the physical limit of actuator speed, inducing error and oscillations

[@pierro281279]

Speed and lag *

[@Celeste-ty5pb]

this is a really fun video!!! a lot of these designs you came up with look like f-zero machines

[@operaswift8623]

you could try to shoot it up with a model rocket on a launch craft and disconnect it on the upper arch, so you have airspeed and altitude. nice video daniel!

[@operator8014]

You could make it roll intentionally for the first few seconds on release, it already wants to do it, and it would give a bit of gyro stabilization.

[@frackcha]

Electromagnet rail gun style glider launcher when please? We all know you have the batteries for it ;)

[@noobmancool]

the space shuttle if it had gear would be so good

[@quandale8707]

You should make a psi sensor connected to a empty air tight bottle to find the altitude

Just idea i got when watching the last few seconds: Make a crash proof cockpit for your electronics. and desing your models around it. that way you do not have to brake so much electronics. Similar as F1 cars have for the drivers. It would be aesy to swap planes and servos while the electronis are one module. 👍

[@bbrachman]

How many designs were built over the years to perfect the space plane shape. At this point, only two were successful. Right? Space Shuttle, Dream Chaser? (oh, the secret Air Force pilotless version). It is not easy. If the best scientists cannot design one, you have the same chance as they do. I love your trials. Your designs are cool. Your improvements are mostly sound. Love these videos. Keep going.

[@RiderRickMaker]

Well, try Portugal :D That will help you with the mental health thing about the weather! Anyway...! You pulled a nice one on the shuttle! 👌👌👌👌

[@TheSlaughtermatic]

Maybe you should build yourself a wind tunnel for initial testing. You probably have most of what you need laying around already.

[@veizour]

I have the same interest. Find it really fun and neat. Also love the space shuttle. Also, (kind of?) similarly, the idea of the Aliens drop-ship also interests me. I believe the excitement of the drop in Aliens was of course for movie excitement, but technically speaking, they could do something like that on purpose to conserve fuel on re-entry for use during re-ascent.

[@3614crazedbiker]

Goose-hunting-helmetboy is my spirit animal 6:05

[@tracybowling1156]

I love, love, love when you show footage of you building anything!

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

As these are actively controlled putting the weight very nose heavy should be possible and still get it to 'fly'. That would then help it accelerate nose down more cleanly as you have put the drag and mass far enough apart... Of course if you or the code don't pull up at the right time it will turn into a lawn dart, or stall and then turn into lawn dart, as you will really need good airspeed to have enough control to lift the heavy nose...

[@edheadgaming8411]

maybe you couldhalf power it with a rc fan to gain a bit more airspeed while diving (i know it would ruin the whole "glider" thing but it would be cool to see it fly longer!)

[@ederplays2788]

11:50 pro tip: use the soccer goal nets as a net to catch the aircraft instead of having a hard landing

[@Nalanaij]

Due to your efforts on building the solar plane back then. I'm getting ready to start my rc fixed wing career. What about you creating a tutorial about ardupilot, waypoint missions, your experiences, fpv gear and handling? would much appreciate it.

[@nickshipley4372]

Model one after the gbu 39. Drop it with the wings facing downward and it will flip over and glide