Strava Announces Big Changes That'll Kill Apps

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

STRAVA is far closer to the guy in the breakaway that refuse to cooperate more than the guy at the front pulling the peloton.

[@kevinkwmiller]

👏👏👏👏

[@rcdogmanduh4440]

Hey that was pretty good!

[@HeartPumper]

It's called entitlement in a bubble mentality.

[@jakebailey146]

The Rui Costa of the fitness industry.

[@OneTouch1980]

Which is usually not a good place for they guy, he usually gets caught and passed by the peloton

[@kevinkwmiller]

You left out one of the best parts of their letter, "Note: Per our Community Guidelines and Guidelines to Ideas, posts requesting or attempting to have Strava revert business decisions will not be permitted." SOOOOO Customer Friendly.

[@Dcrainmaker]

Haha...I know, I couldn't figure out how to fit (and a few other items) in. I do have it in my longer written post.

[@roddyeskew3909]

Yup I clicked on the link they provided in the email yesterday and they had disabled comments on the article too

[@LomTong]

Yikes

[@colinm9168]

Strava are at times a third party app. They take data from Garmin connect for example and do everything they don't want others to do if that data is linked onwards. They seem completely oblivious to their actual usefulness.. There is definitely something in this on ownership of the data. Strava don't own it, the individual does. It could be an interesting angle to test them on.

[@LashanR]

By the way, please pay for Strava Premium! Kthxbye 🤪

[@irfuel]

The absurd part is that the data that they refer to, on Strava, for most users isn't even generated by Strava. It's generated by Garmin, Wahoo, .... so basically they are saying that once the fit file gets on the Strava platform you no longer decide what happens with your own data if you want to download it again (because the export through the API is basically the same fit file, bar some minor changes. It's not as if they apply a lot of transformations on the input). Somebody didn't think this through ...

[@CarlForde]

What exactly is "Strava Data"? Certainly not my fit file contents. That's mine. I created it. If I want to share it Strava can't stop me. They can refuse to do it for me though, which seems to be net of what they're saying. Like any other obstacle, people will route around it. Kinda like a big traffic circle in front of the peloton. :-)

[@AndrewBlucher]

Somebody didn't think this through ... such as what am I paying for, do I really need it now, and how much will it incentivise users to try (new) competing products.

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

It's by design, they're putting up barriers to make it difficult for users to use other products. It's part of a long term strategy to create a walled garden.

[@miketimmerman6336]

If Garmin or Wahoo stuck this same language in their agreements, Strava would be dead. I’m kind of rooting for the rest of the industry to give them a taste of their own pettiness.

[@AndrewBlucher]

@@tubularmonkeymaniac Yep, decision time!

[@johnalderson191]

I've been a Strava subscriber since 2016 and I just canceled. This notion that my data suddenly becomes Strava's data simply because it passed through their systems is ridiculous and the mindset that could come up with this notion is pure arrogance.

[@irfuel]

This is actually the worst part. It's not as if your data was generated by Strava. It was generated by another platform and pushed to Strava!

[@JC-pt2tw]

Same

[@SteRumbelow]

Cancelled too.

[@RichardGate-UK]

Same

[@dustind9242]

That aspect hasn't really changed. It's always been strava's data once you agreed to the terms and uploaded.

[@hervepoujol7155]

I love how the article on their blog announcing the new policy finishes with "Thanks for your feedback" and right under that sentence is written "This topic has been closed for comments"

[@NathanBudd]

I'd love to see the rest of the sector come together and drop Strava support. Garmin, Wahoo, TraineRoad, Zwift, Rouvy etc, all of them drop the option to post your activities to Strava.

[@steveshepard9430]

It sounds like that may be their only choice. Perhaps that’s Strava’s motivation?

[@sillydillybar]

I think my preference is for those companies to mutually start a competitor to strava. Sort of like when studios started Hulu as a Netflix that they owned.

[@JohnNeville617]

Strava is going to kill their company with this decision

[@AlistairLattimore]

That was be awesome. I’ve said this for a long time about the fitness world, it works because of free, openly exchangeable data between devices and services. When companies decide to break that, they should be punished as it is bad for the community and user choice.

[@miketimmerman6336]

@@JohnNeville617 They will back down in two weeks, pinky promise we all just misunderstood and then reintroduce some form of this in 6 months.

[@KO47893]

Strava is the lead-out rider who crashed and took out half the peloton.

[@Leo-ss2gb]

Strava is Jasper Disaster

[@DMW2000]

Half?

[@christosandreev6392]

Strava is the Alez Opi Omi sign holder

[@Thespinningwoman]

Basically everyone that thinks this is insane needs to request a bulk download of their data. The option is in account/settings/download or delete your account. Requesting the download doesn’t commit you to deleting your account but hopefully if their servers are flooded with requests, that might signal to them that plenty of people are considering it. Let’s have a run on the Strava databank, since they have forgotten whose data it is.

[@AlSalisbury]

Snap! Had exactly the same idea and kicked my request off earlier…. After all it is “your data”

[@danieldugal4057]

Done and shared to my Zwift team, 4500 members, thanks.

[@AndrewBlucher]

Good work Karen!

[@bubby372]

I'm on it.

[@garybonham6048]

No, if you’ve looked at the trajectory, they’re not listening. But the downward is an awesome idea, thanks for that. Se ya later Strava!!!

[@bradleytipp2750]

Whoa - Strava takes aims at foot and pulls trigger...

[@russelleldridge1756]

with a bazooka

[@andrewcockburn7484]

Again...

[@ralfmimoun2826]

And hits a body part about 1m above ground.

[@todd727300]

Strava should be commended for working to facilitate the rise of their competitors and encouraging their users to find alternative apps.

[@casualguy393]

Speaking of alternatives to Strava which ones do you guys recommend? If Strava won't let me do what I want to do with my own data from my own cycling computer that I gave permission to share with Strava then I will let my cycling computer share my own data with another app.

[@ketle369]

I now just sync most things to Apple Health. Not very social, but it’s at least everything in one place and that one place isn’t Strava.

[@lucmerryduke5022]

Very disappointing ‘strategy’ that will almost certainly result in me choosing not to renew Premium service. They are either incredibly confident that there is no (and will never be) a substitute, or letting lawyers dictate policy/GTM… or some combination. Either way, breaking my favorite integrations is a fantastic way to make me want to stop using Strava altogether.

[@pmcmpc]

RideWithGPS are going to be popping corks after this. Strava doing this is going to make it so, so much easier for them to obtain funding for the development and expansion of their platform.

[@todd727300]

@@casualguy393 Garmin Connect and RideWithGPS are two of the ones I see mentioned a lot. I have a Garmin Computer, so I use Connect, but I care less and less about the social aspect. I have a few select friends and family as Connections. In the end, the KOM type stuff really doesn't matter. I compete against myself. There is too much cheating going on in Strava anyway for that stuff to matter, to me at least.

[@thismarkp]

Cory Doctorow is right - it's all part of the enshittification of everything. I have a Strava ID in the 10,000s - I was very early there. 👋Strava.

[@philrolls3233]

So Strava won’t let us share the data that, more often than not, is being shared by others (Garmin, Coros etc) to the benefit of their platform. Got it 👍🏻

[@DanCave]

my belief and understanding is that it's nothing to do with an issue with sharing our data with third parties, it's the cost charged by strava's content delivery provider to third parties via the API which is the issue here. it's becoming too expensive for them to sustain providing the API functionality.

[@JoshuaParks]

Member since Jan 2, 2014. Paid since April 2014. Cancelled my paid membership. Hopefully enough people do the same and we get their attention. I put api changes in my reason for cancelling

[@saschaw986]

Exactly this!

[@JC-pt2tw]

Me too

[@SteRumbelow]

Same here.

[@bgav]

Same, put it in comments for "Other" reason for cancellation.

[@cheerin_app]

Hey Joshua, we worked really hard to create a platform for all active people to share and track their progress. I would love if you gave it a shot. If you liked Strava for its social features we will knock your socks off

[@MarriedWithBackpacks]

Strava forgot that they're just a social app. A place where people share their activities. Nobody I know records an activity on their phone with strava. It's always a watch or a bike computer. I think the amount of people who use strava as a training tool is really limited

[@tonygSDWR]

I totally use my phone for Strava for some activities, but I see your point.

[@Unknown-jl7mg]

any a little more serious cyclist has garmin(wahoo) in that system i get all the stats and for free... literally strava just a "share with friends".... another reason not to pay for their shit

[@squeezydelemon3380]

Strava looking at MySpace & saying hold my isotonic drink. DC's last point being a diplomatic way of saying that Strava's greed (or *belief* that this will make them more profitable) will bite them in their arse at some point. This is a corporate 'philosophy' issue, not a functional or privacy issue.

[@AndrewBlucher]

I will be reviewing why I decided to subscribe, and looking for other services. Strava put competitors out of business when they started, but is now offering them a respawn! PS And great to see the non-US spelling.

[@jzajzz]

Unfortunately..the modern day consumer is to blame..these companies think they can do this because the consumer won't vote with their wallet

[@AndrewBlucher]

@@jzajzz Let the X-odus begin.

[@jzajzz]

@AndrewBlucher if it's immediate and significant enough..they will reverse course

[@kev183in]

How do we get as many people as possible to cancel their Strava membership in the next 30 days? This has to go viral somehow.

[@Coolcmsc]

The answer, sadly, is that isn’t going to happen. My hope is that one of the big players sees this as an opportunity and poaches a few key employees to realise a better competitor. They wouldn’t need to be successful in the short or even the medium term. The alternative is for one of those companies to buy Strava, but their (Strava’s) arrogance will probably prevent that.

[@cheerin_app]

Yeah please use cheerin' instead 😂 we actually like our users

[@bbartel1978]

I just canceled mine. Hopefully more do as that's the only thing that will bring change.

[@DanCave]

my belief and understanding is that it's nothing to do with an issue with sharing our data with third parties, it's the cost charged by strava's content delivery provider to third parties via the API which is the issue here. it's becoming too expensive for them to sustain providing the API functionality.

[@ststevenau]

Just cancelled as well

[@wk633]

Strava is the least essential link in my Garmin/Strava/TP chain. And will be the first I drop.

[@wk633]

my mistake, I'm already pulling directly from Garmin to TP. Have to re-think what I'm paying Strava for...

[@phejom]

I'm right there with you!

[@mikeprytherch8875]

@@wk633I've just cancelled my subscription

[@derekschick4880]

I stopped paying for Strava when they bumped pricing. Haven’t missed it

[@wimvdputte]

@@wk633 - I'm thinking about the same kind of things. Strava is just for fun, not essential for my training.

[@bruceritchie7613]

Cancelled my auto renewal. I've been a subscriber since oct 2011.

[@RodrigoDeJaneiro]

Same here. Was a subscriber since Jun 2010

[@asspelican]

I cancelled and emailed them this being the reason.

[@ShawnIsBatman]

Great update, thanks Ray! This only makes sense from a business perspective if either 1) Strava plans to re-enable the data access/usage using some type of a paywall or 2) Strava has plans to come out with some amazing features that their user base would want to pay for that would effectively fill the holes that the consumers will be missing by Strava seemingly trying to kill-off the functionality of the Strava connected app world. If #1 were true, it would seem logical that Strava would have announced the pay-for-access scheme along with this change. If #2 is true, Strava should already have the feature set ready to rollout to turn the customer disappointment into customer excitement.

[@cliffwarner8356]

Yes, it looks like Strava is looking to take over AI based training app business and is booting all other third parties out prior to implementing their training app. Wild guess that there will be a significant cost for that service.

[@ruicosta3396]

Nahh it's #3: they didn't implement any new features, but want to lock your data into their ecosystem so you're forced to pay for a subscription (that they recently increased the price). They realised you could sync your data to other apps to do performance analysis (better than on their own app) so instead of adding value to their app, they short-circuited the ones who did.

[@miketimmerman6336]

@@cliffwarner8356 There is nobody I trust less to take over AI training and not screw it up than Strava.

[@DanCave]

Part of your point Shaun is already on point. If you are a premium subscriber, you're 'paying' ... that should imply that you allow other third parties to access your data via the API which strava get charged for.. my belief and understanding is that it's nothing to do with an issue with sharing our data with third parties, it's the cost charged by strava's content delivery provider to third parties via the API which is the issue here. it's becoming too expensive for them to sustain providing the API functionality.

[@ruicosta3396]

Just a thought: what if, people not only leave Strava but also ask to erase all their data from the platform? What happens to heat maps, segments, etc? Genius move: first increase prices causing people to leave Premium, second - limit third parties causing people to leave the platform altogether.

[@valiantabello]

Strava and terrible ideas, name a more iconic duo

[@Yannerson]

Reminds me of Reddit killing the best 3rd party apps.

[@Gregory_tottie]

Pizza and beer. But Strava and terrible ideas are a good one too.

[@petejohnson1524]

Strava has become insufferable. Please we need another company to come out with a competing app.

[@Albatrossamongus]

Zwift and terrible ideas...

[@cheerin_app]

cheerin' and not strava 😂

[@leandermeulebroeck]

My stava premium is ending in december, looks like it wont be renewed. Good job strava, you angered a paying user enough to make him stop paying.

[@danielhorta8465]

I'm not renewing Strava Premium this year either. Might just use Garmin Connect going forward.

[@aexetanius]

Strava's Morning Epiphany: It’s 7:00 AM in San Francisco, the fog thickens over the bay. Strava’s product team, still groggy from their morning coffee, gather for their daily brainstorming session. One developer leans forward, a mischievous glint in their eye. “Alright, folks, hear me out. What if we change the way segments are calculated again? Let’s make sure no one can find their PR unless they dig through three different screens. Oh, and let’s add another notification setting that defaults to ‘on,’ just to keep them on their toes. It’ll be a real treat for our users.” The room erupts in excited murmurs of approval. “Brilliant! We’ll throw in a confusing new interface update with no explanation too,” someone adds. “Perfect. Strava’s users won’t know what hit them. Now, time for some breakfast!”

[@elgrego]

Closed my account now. Very happy with Garmin

[@JacobJernigan-f8c]

Ray's analysis is spot on here, and it's a fairly large miss by Strava on understanding why (at least some of) their customers utilize the platform. This is as Ray broadly points out that due to the expansive integration both for data ingest and soon formerly sharing outbound it serves as a useful aggregation platform if you utilize multiple platforms. What is most likely going to happen in short order is 1) people will have to utilize a manual workaround with activity imports / exports 2) someone will build a platform to replace former Strava functionality by integrating with the various other platforms without the significantly restrictive terms 3) that user base that leveraged Strava as a "hub" will cancel their paid subscription as the rest of the functionality doesn't provide enough value standalone. I wouldn't be so bold to say that the number of users that actually initially cancel would be significant. It's certainly possible that the churn metric doesn't change enough to concern Strava in the short term. What it does do and why Strava should be mindful is it opens the door for someone else to innovate in the space without the feature moat that Strava previously had. This story has repeated several times in the tech space. Finally, on a personal data note, Strava is putting restrictions on how others are processing your data (which has a strong correlation to your health), but (and I admit I haven't reviewed the ToS to confirm) I'd suspect that they place no such limitations on themselves and absent data privacy laws for a jurisdiction likely no way for you to opt out of their own "service improvements". P.S. Watched about 2/3 of the video through lunch, so it's entirely possible that I'm repeating Ray's analysis at the end.

[@cheerin_app]

Hey 'platform to replace forme Strava' speaking. We are just hanging out here watching the people aboard the sinking ship and coming over to us :)

[@DanCave]

my belief and understanding is that it's nothing to do with an issue with sharing our data with third parties, it's the cost charged by strava's content delivery provider to third parties via the API which is the issue here. it's becoming too expensive for them to sustain providing the API functionality.

[@homoinspirus]

You can opt out from sending health data to Strava with your uploaded activities (I did this today). You can't opt out from sending GPS related to Strava though.

[@silaseul3186]

Could you please make a video about best strava alternatives?

[@jfritzinger]

Garmin auto sink to Training Peaks

[@OnMyWayToTheMoon]

I've been happily paying for Strava since 2017 and I cancelled my subscription.

[@BoyMeetsMountain]

2018 here, also canceled. I'd been on the fence through the last 2 years or so of poor Strava behavior. I'm just 'over' rewarding a company for treating partners this way.

[@OnMyWayToTheMoon]

​@@BoyMeetsMountain And it's not only this change. Routing started to be buggy, segments are messed up, the ones I cared for are hidden for some reason and the constant bombardment with notifications is just too much.

[@stephangeissler7491]

2014 and also just cancelled. As you said the behavior of Strava is annoying me more and more.

[@hoondie]

I have also cancelled. I wonder how many people have to cancel before they rethink this

[@echternordhesse]

So did I. Sub cancelled after 7 yrs. Gonna be relying on GoldenCheetah and something else instead.

[@AK-je7ns]

Keep up the good work Ray, good to have someone like you on the consumer side.

[@TheRidewithBenDelaney]

Good work, Ray. Thanks!

[@Dcrainmaker]

Thanks Ben!

[@explodeder]

@@DcrainmakerI pay for Strava and have 13 years of data in it. I push from Garmin connect and zwift into Strava so that it’s my data aggregator. Do you think there is any change with companies pushing data TO Strava?

[@Thespinningwoman]

@@explodederI don’t get how they get to call it ‘Strava data’ when it all comes from other companies’ hardware.

[@RodrigoDeJaneiro]

@@Thespinningwoman I know, right? That’s what really pissed me off, calling it ‘Strava Data’ … entitled thugs

[@Jarek.]

My Strava subscription was mainly to show kind of gratitude for creating cycling community. As this is no longer happening I see no reason to support them anymore.

[@phejom]

If you've not pivoted away from Strava being the centre of your fitness data then surely this is the sign you should do so now.

[@kevinkwmiller]

Definitely opened my eyes. Spent that last 24 hours figuring out and testing my new data flow that goes around Strava instead of through it. So, not only did they take away functionality, they also gave us all work to do. It's like they intentionally decided to piss us all off.

[@macktheinterloper]

Yeah, I'm thinking this may be the last year of my subscription. Plenty of alternatives. Most of them cheaper, too.

[@hervepoujol7155]

My whole setup is organized around strava database.. I bought my bike computer (from a small company) because it syncs with strava... Guess I'll have to buy a new bike computer from garmin and leave strava

[@hb2998]

Who do you recommend instead? Garmin should step up a bit I think.

[@jonsiegrist2382]

did just that today. Rungap getting my money.

Aren’t these rules in direct conflict with EU data portability laws?! I’m entitled to being able to take my data from Strava out and anywhere else I want. They for sure cannot prevent from doing whatever I want with the data. If they refuse to give me that data via API, fine, but obtained through data portability export the data should still be freely usable in whatever manner by anyone.

[@mrs3lfd3s7ruc7]

Strava is killing its self created eco system. That's what I understand.

[@jfritzinger]

I dont pay for Strava. Strava is a spoke, not a hub. Garmin to training Peaks and strava. Strava is nothing but social reward. Training peaks 1Ox more value for serious athletes and coaching needs. Great video.

[@sosllc]

Lets hear some of the alternative apps. I have no problem not using Strava.

[@cotochris]

Agree, I'm curious on what other Apps that could replace Strava.

[@garyfodden5034]

mywoosh

[@mihpop9733]

garmin

[@VirtualCyclist91]

RideWithGPS

[@jakajese5160]

Quite happy with the Suunto App, but you can't really use it properly (hassle free) with other brand of equipment.

[@snsstr-n2j]

It would be poetic justice if Garmin and other watch mfg's released a similar 'change' but only targeted Strava with it.

[@loganjackson9559]

the problem is, if a company were to do this, it would reflect worse on that company than it would strava. If wahoo, for example, were to prohibit heart rate sharing with apps. Many people would switch brands.

[@tsttt]

Right...Wahoo and Garmin stop sharing data and strava collapses

[@miketimmerman6336]

@@loganjackson9559 The point isn’t that Wahoo and Garmin shut this down for everyone, the point is that they should shut it down if data can’t move in both directions. If Strava won’t move data to Garmin, why should Garmin move data to Strava.

[@zenbe]

thing is there's nothing in it for them, except like mentionned above that it would hurt their own brand. If they had their own social platform, it would be another story.

[@homoinspirus]

@@zenbe Garmin does. A crapy one but still.

[@user-neun-breitaxt]

Did I get this right? They named my data Strava data? Yeah, not any longer.

[@ltu42]

I bet if you read the fine print, you always gave the right to use the data however they want to Strava. They even tried selling the insights to municipalities.

[@user-neun-breitaxt]

@@ltu42 I get this, yes, and I was OK with Strava also using my data. I am not OK with them claiming it’s theirs alone.

[@RodrigoDeJaneiro]

Exactly, that’s what REALLY pissed me off… ‘Strava Data’ … member since 2010, just cancelled

[@cheerin_app]

Come and generate some cheerin' data. Just joking it's always yours on our videos

[@bretprins4792]

I can’t stress how much of middle finger this is to everyone by releasing this going into December on a 30-Day timeline. Most software dev teams will be at 50% capacity throughout the month. Subscription cancelled. I don’t support anti competitive moves when you’re the industry leader and have every opportunity to create positive change.

[@donnybrooklads]

Competitions Bureau should get a phone call on this

[@MusclesandBooks]

Not to mention going into end-of-year change moratoriums.

[@murfpike187]

Would LOVE to know what company can and is going to do it better, stopped subscription a few years ago and have been waiting for something better. Let's put strava out of it's misery and find something that puts users first

[@casualguy393]

RidewithGPS?

[@threeshirescyclist554]

So next video idea I would love to see - How to manage your data, view rides, get analytics in the post strava world ?

[@MrAgglo]

Folks at Garmin are popping a bottle of champagne... Strava just jumped off a cliff

[@andreydonkrot]

I don't think so. Garmin doesn't look like facebook for athletes. It is rather personal analytical tool.

[@compasschiro]

@@andreydonkrotwrong, Strava is way more essential than garmin

[@RachelSchloer]

This would be something Garmin could capitalize on, however with not one competent dev in their team making any one of the millions of changes requested we will never see any meaningful change in their services in our lifetimes

[@rolandvaneijk]

Garmin, Coros, Suunto and Polar should team up to make a single API platform.

[@5mattcolour]

I doubt it. Garmin Connect is even more closed off than Strava.

[@MrMysto]

the BYD of Strava will be launching soon, leaving Strava saying “why didn’t we see this coming”

[@Abudirs]

What a terrible company to partner with

[@RYTHMICRIOT]

Strava watching Bethesda and Ubisoft and deciding someone in the activity tracker space needs to be hated this much.

[@bateriayvr8988]

Don't forget about Activision & EA...

[@randyandkeri]

Got the email and instantly couldn’t wait for this video.

[@2too]

No strava email here in finland. Is strava do that in EU countries at all? Maybe not? Where people live, who get that email?

[@ianwlisle]

15 years +. From August 7th 2009 until yesterday. For 15 years you’ve been part of my fitness story. I’ve loved being a data nerd with you. But I’ve also loved veloviewer. Now you’ve broken up, decided you were too good for it. Decided you no longer wanted to share custody of me or my data and you want sole custody. Sorry, I’m an adult now. So I’ll choose where I go. I’ll miss you.

[@DanCave]

Veloviewer are reportedly 'working through these changes with Strava'. What that means exactly is unknown. There are an estimated 120 million subscribers, of which a proportion use third party app intergration as Ray explains. This costs Strava money as each API request is likely being charged back by Strava's content delivery network provider. That's my belief and understanding.. Strava should be allowing folks who are paying subscibers to allow this since they're paying for premium features and such this shouldn't be an issue.

[@wstrzalka]

No other way of giving them feedback then revoke subscription renewal

[@cheerin_app]

Yeah we are so ready to replace them :)

[@shauninnc]

Just cancelled my subscription renewal. Was set for 23 Nov.

[@RideItBetterCycling]

It's weird that Strava calls it "Strava Data" because it's not. It's Garmin... Wahoo... Zwift... data, but even more core to that it's OUR data, quite literally our biometrics. Seems like there needs to be a service that can intercept/front-run uploads to Strava to ingest the data (again, not Strava's data) and vend that data out to the third party apps that we WANT to use.

[@nsmith131]

This solution kind of presupposes that being on Strava is desirable in itself. If it doesn't do integrations correctly then it's kind of DOA, and all that's needed is the middleman you described, minus the uppity entitlement that Strava have been cultivating.

[@RodrigoDeJaneiro]

That’s exactly what pissed me off.. ‘Strava Data’ … what a bunch of entitled thugs.

[@F4UZ3R]

I completely agree, but there is a Strava owned data there. Which is when they generate the analytics by grouping all the individual data they receive. Looks like they are addressing some GDPR regulations, but went a little overboard (like limiting coaches, that are authorized by you , to see your data only...makes no sense). The rest of its a bummer but they absolutely can do it. From 3rd party apps perspective, it's quite easy to solve it. They don't need Strava, all major devices used by athletes have APIs you can collect user data...just skip Strava and deal which population data based on your own pool of users

[@Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]

​@@F4UZ3Rwrong. He was wearing one on his wrist for starters

[@DanCave]

@rideItBetterCycling my belief and understanding is that it's nothing to do with an issue with sharing our data with third parties, it's the cost charged by strava's content delivery provider to third parties via the API which is the issue here. it's becoming too expensive for them to sustain providing the API functionality.

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

STRAVA: *Singularly Trashing* the *Analitical Value* of *Applications*

[@wullxz]

Last month i started a yearly subscription. I just cancelled it and wrote that the API changes are what's made me cancel because I use multiple third party apps for additional benefits and motivation. Maybe they'll understand that.

[@numinouspalimpsest]

They don’t need to understand they have to refund you as they changed t&c. Dispute the charges via your bank, which can likely be done via app (no PITA phone call)

[@wullxz]

@@numinouspalimpsest I have to check how and if that works. I used the subscriptions of Google Play Store to subscribe.

[@wullxz]

@@numinouspalimpsest I ordered Strava Premium via Google Play and just requested a refund. I got it immediately! Either it immediately went through because it's been less than a month or Google has some AI trained to recognize the patterns of the complaints and accepts the cancels ^^

[@thesuit4820]

Cynical reasoning... Strava wants to break alternatives to the analysis that comes with Strava premium.

[@Peakabike]

Sounds about right...

[@roddyeskew3909]

Strava premium doesn't come with any worthwhile analysis though

[@MattOtis]

@@roddyeskew3909 How dare you imply that an AI that suggests how you can rename your ride to increase engagement is anything but worthwhile.

[@mctrials23]

To be fair to them, if my AI analysis was as fucking awful as Stravas I wouldn't want people competing with it either.

[@mctrials23]

@@MattOtis Don't forget its summaries that could be written with about 5 if statements...

[@standish250]

I paid for a year of Strava premium this year after having used it for free for like a decade. I know I had the trial, but I was hopeful that I would be able to get deeper analytics and more use out of the premium features, but turns out it's basically the same. I also found Training Peaks and paid for a year of that. Training Peaks is what I was expecting a paid Strava to be. You get all the data, can narrow scope to anywhere in the activity and see adjusted metrics (like what was my average power in that specific climb?), an intuitive interface, planning and projected metrics. It's amazing. I don't see a point to Strava anymore for purposes of training

[@johngorentz6409]

Rule: Don't put your data into a system that you can't get it back out of. Or if you do, make sure that it isn't the only place where you keep those data. Because of this rule I don't let my Wahoo data upload automatically to anything. I first make sure I have copies where I organize them the way I want them, and then upload manually.

[@leapnlarry]

This really only affects power users that use all these apps, i just use garmin and strata together which wont be affected. Larry

[@crack0n]

sounds like RIP Strava 🤔

[@MattSwain1]

I doubt it. When I saw this video I thought there was going to be a bunch of my friends that would need to see it who all use Strava and then as Ray went through the details, none of them are affected so won’t care. They don’t use Training Peaks, Velo Viewer or anything else… they share their Garmin data with the world on Strava and job done. Don’t misunderstand me, I think it’s terrible but I stopped paying for Strava when they hiked the prices a year or 2 back. As usual though, most people whinged about the price hike and then kept on subscribing, just like they’ll say this is dreadful and continue subscribing.

[@mlegrand]

Looks nice and warm there Ray!!! Hope the water temps are nice as well. Good to see a few more sponsorships here also. Future is looking bright ☀

[@Dcrainmaker]

Indeed, another t-shirt and shorts day! Thanks Matt!

[@JulianBaird]

Companies like Strava do this a lot. I've always thought is a risky business model building a platform that is dependent on another company's platform.

[@uhhhuhyeah]

Honestly sounds like an opportunity for a new business. An app that simply syncs between different services from hardware.

[@phattysnow]

fairly simple and easy app to build, especially if they all take the same gpx data set. The issue is not in persisting the data (i dont think you would want that anyways), its in the holding of the 3rd party usernames/passwords for apps that dont have oauth in place (i would presume most do). Strava isn't allowing business connections because its too expensive to ship out via APIs, but doesn't think they can charge these vendors the expense of those APIs. It makes zero sense, they could easily cover this and more by selling targeted ads (its a social platform after all).

[@veers0r]

With Bluesky on the rise at the moment, maybe it's time for a federated/distributed Strava replacement. Stopped paying them a while a go, probably time top stop using Strava all together. Might even make a fun coding project over Christmas. :)

[@olasonn]

Segments is the only thing keeping me on Strava. Somebody make a proper alternative, I'll be there.

[@nathankendal]

Segments are not even that good anymore anyway.

[@homoinspirus]

Garmin has them for free

[@enigma1000]

What is Segments?

[@jameseastwood402]

Great video. Always so neutral, fair and reflective, but lay it all out when something is atrociously bad

[@CanyonWanderer]

I don't have that many dependencies to trainer apps etc, but Veloviewer sync I'd really not want to miss... BTW, Since the beginning I found it weird that the 3 sports in the left column of the dashboard page are not *your* 3 most favourite sports, but the three triatlon sports, as if to say "Look, we built this for tri-atletes"

[@joemiller7296]

I'm happy to hear that the TrainerRoad/Zwift integration is coming in January. Haven't heard that anywhere else, and with Trevor and Jonathan's teases on Strava, I've been curious as to when that's happening.

[@donbarnard82]

What I've been doing with garmin is while I zwift, which feeds strava, I also record the ride on my garmin watch to feed garmin, so trainerroad can get my activities from garmin. It doesn't need to connect to strava, though it currently does.

[@2fast2sweet]

@@donbarnard82that’s an unnecessary extra step? My zwift uploads to Garmin and strava separately

[@bgav]

Thanks Ray. I’ve been a paid member since 2011 and Premium subscriber since they launched that tier. I just cancelled my Premium subscription’s auto-renew.

[@VirtualCyclist91]

Time to move MY DATA to RideWithGPS

[@timmimhairi1312]

True. This is a great opportunity for Ride w GPS!

[@nhoover]

Thanks for the clear explanation Ray. I cancelled my paid subscription just now. If enough of us do it, they might listen - but don't count on it.

[@laffreux29]

I would never forgive them for killing Fatmap.

[@MikeBaloga]

You're 100% spot on in both your analysis and opinion.....my patience is also growing thin. So, the question is, what's the next best viable alternative?

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Sounds to me like a cost cutting measure to save on server prices. The massive subscription increase was the start. We still haven't seen our money's worth imo.

[@averyfollett4005]

I seriously doubt it would save them that much. More likely they're just trying to kill off 3rd party apps and start to integrate the features of those apps into Strava.

[@nationsnumber1chump]

@@averyfollett4005 idk I think they are scared of the Tariffs affecting server parts and whatnot that they use. Its funny we were supposed to have a huge semiconductor plant built in my city but it has yet to happen.

[@FasCatCoaching]

Whew, glad we are not reliant on Strava for our athletes sending us their data (this was intentional) But the REAL question is what Strava has cooking to warrant these changes. Maybe something in the AI Coaching realm??

[@mihpop9733]

The only possible way this could work out for them: if Strava come out with a head unit! or buy a brand with one and buy out zwift or similar app then they can have the entire ecosystem

[@RonBalone]

Strava sub since 2009 here. I can assure you, they;re doing the bare min towards customer experience. My most recent CS ticket took 6 weeks to answer, SIX! And that was just a response from the team, not a ticket resolution.

[@kata_mar_1989]

According to EU GDPR rules, Strava does not "own" you data. Your data is still yours.

[@xander0901]

This is a great opportunity for literally everyone else in the industry to start integrating Strava’s features into their own apps and ecosystems.

[@NedKelly21]

This makes me wonder what percentage of data on Strava comes from users who record activities directly in the (a) Strava app versus those transmitted from (b) devices like Garmin, Wahoo, Concept, Apple, or Android through the API. I’d imagine option (b) accounts for a much larger volume of activities. If Strava were to alienate these device makers, it could backfire if they impose restrictive API terms on Strava. This would threaten Strava's role as a 'common platform,' and we’d likely see the fitness community splintering in search of a new central hub. Just some food for thought.

[@2too]

Apple watch have strava app.

[@mopedvieh]

The most shocking thing is the angle of the brake levers in the backround :D

[@17cream]

Time for a competitor app to release

[@phillipraifordjohnson8371]

Strava is a social media app. There are way better things out there if you’re serious about training data. This move seems anticompetitive which is weird as I don’t see them as being a competitor product to these other businesses. Unless they are thinking about getting more serious about training, analytics, coaches, etc down the road. Anyway happy to stop paying them as essentially they’re a nice-to-have not central to training

[@timrichardson2]

I can see Strava going South very quickly with this, just requested Strava send me my link to download all MY DATA! Safeguard your data people, ask Strava for it now!

[@SonnyDarvish]

Happily a Komoot premium user, without needing a single benefit that wasn't available in the free membership anyway.

[@AveryAlbus]

Stopped using Strava few years ago - didn't regret once.

[@HeartPumper]

Hear, hear, exactly the same over here. I've enough dopamine during each of my activities. No need for "like" induced ones.

[@2006Whippet]

Yep, I deleted my account a couple of years ago.

[@sswindon]

Thanks Ray, great video. I like many dismissed the email from Strava as an update I didn't need to worry about. I wonder how they think they will benefit from this in the long run and how this can be construed as a positive for their users. I hate it when a big player throws their weight around to try to bully smaller companies that rely on them for their business model. I've just cancelled and sent them this explanation for my cancellation: "Your latest email restricting data sharing through your API with 3rd party apps gave me all the reason I needed to decide to cancel. Let's hope a competitor who understands how the 3rd party ecosystem works for the benefit of all comes along and eats your lunch."

[@completelyrandom8150]

Super dumb changes. In the end, after some short-term gains, it will cost them. People expect things to connect and they certainly want to use their own data.

[@florian808]

I cancelled my subscription about a month ago with continuous price hikes and lack luster feature adds over the years. Glad I did now :)

[@RustyRacer]

Sounds like their business managers had a meeting with their lawyers and forgot to invite humans to the teams meeting

[@xgymratx83]

Looking forward to your upcoming video about what app to use to replace strava for link all my 3rd party coaching etc

[@enrikschott9301]

a pity Strava closed to comment section for that announcement I would love to read the feedbacks there

[@vpnconsult]

The worst type of companies are thebones who turn against their customers.

[@Xhadp]

Meanwhile they still have fixed their stupid "kudos to you" notification I constantly get after every. . . single. .. workout. . . it . . . is. . . . annoying.

[@GvnS360]

Then turn off notifications 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Xhadp]

@@GvnS360 They said you can do that but they clarified it still does not completely remove it. (actual words used by Strava support)

[@GvnS360]

@@Xhadp I don't get them.

[@michellesgoldberg]

Thanks Ray. I pay for Strava since I've enjoyed what they offer, and wanted to support what I thought was valuable data, but if they no longer give me what I want, adios Strava! I use many 3rd party apps and if they can't all talk nice to each other, I'll go back to my hand written spreadsheets!

[@terraapi]

For all the developers that want to replace Strava, use Terra API

[@phejom]

@@terraapi I'm all for a new player joining and being the centre but terra API is for companies, not the end user, no? At least the pricing suggests that.

[@hoondie]

How does the little app that doesn't charge for it's product afford those fees?

[@terraapi]

@@phejom indeed - strava is covering their api fees through the membership, running costs for an api are extremely high!

[@terraapi]

@@hoondie hey we are doing our best. our cost structure is very high since we dont have the consumer end like strava, but overtime we aim to get lower and lower costs for every developer

[@yellowboat8773]

​@@terraapiBro, terra API is extremely expensive, surely 500 users wouldn't cost $400 month in server fees? Considering fitness data gets pulled up and down maybe a couple of times per day?

[@DouglasKubler]

I've been a member since 2009 (user #497). There was a golden age of apps. There was a wealth of data that many apps used. Strava has been offering less every year and less value every year. It's time for Strava to run out of money and relocate to a less expensive state.

[@overland_adventure_nz]

I would love to be able to turn off Strava Beta AI and go back to my previous editing each run myself.

[@markmitchenall5948]

You can switch that off, thankfully

[@_Dibbler_]

@@markmitchenall5948 What? Where? How?

[@markmitchenall5948]

@@_Dibbler_ I can't remember exactly. Might've been on the desktop browser version, but I've disabled the beta AI somehow, and don't want to see it back.

[@matthiaswolf8525]

@@_Dibbler_klick on an AI comment, then show more, then feedback and leave beta. Seems like they tried to hide it ….

[@overland_adventure_nz]

@@matthiaswolf8525 thank you very very much, I was looking in the settings for days trying to switch it off had no idea about clicking on the beta and then going to feedback and disabling it. I even scan KZbin about it at one stage. 👍

[@James-KL]

Thanks for the heads up on this issue! Yes, what a disaster for those thousands of us that use third party apps with our Strava 😨😰😱

[@martyjobs]

Was that a fart @ 10:11 ?? 😂

[@hellomihai]

Hahah I was 10:04 and literally watched that part exactly after your comment popped up. I was at the perfect time in the video

[@ukaszStachowiak]

looks like they will soon launch their own coaching system inside Strava

[@jumpleadsx2]

I record via Garmin and share to strava. Now strava thinks my data isnt mine? Lol. Goodbye strava

[@xB4R7x]

Been a paying Strava subscriber since 2015. Considering cancelling over this. It's MY data that I'm freely giving them I should be the one who decides how it gets used.

[@suecorcoran2676]

Why have they decided to make these changes? It makes no sense at all.

[@MegaCynar]

They think they own your data. They don't.

[@MarkLiversedge]

AI

[@HrvojeKrpan]

Such a shame that there are no open-source alternatives... This is ridiculous. Btw. Excellent video, thanks!

[@ltu42]

Are you aware of GoldenCheetah?

[@HrvojeKrpan]

​@@ltu42 No, I will check it out, thanks!

[@steveoc64]

GoldenCheetah .. open source, nice clean C++ code, with Qt front end. Easy to read and make changes to .. even for C++ noobs