Struggling with Your Murderous Decision | House M.D...

[@user-vg6ym5xy2r]

Even Chase’s hair looks sad when he’s sad.

[@Lolmation223]

😂😢😭

[@ReivinXL]

Cameron always talks a lot about doing the "greater good" meanwhile Chase was like ... dont mind me if I do

[@Jarvis2500]

She’s textbook white savior complex, always saying fight the good fight but when a real mf like chase pulls up all of a sudden it’s taking it too far 😂

[@Sleepy_Holl0w]

Then she leaves him

[@DiogenesTheCynic.]

talk the talk vs walk the walk Just like in current day, everyone talks about trying to make the world a better place but do nothing about it

[@fuckhead0]

Cameron only cares about "coming off" as morally superior, while she really walks over any actual morals sometimes

[@emilycarter2492]

That’s because Cameron is sanctimonious. She didn’t love Chase, she loved the idea of Chase.

[@tally9542]

Chase didn't fail the trolley problem, and I respect him.

[@biolett553]

Wanna preface this by saying that I do agree with what Chase did There is no right answer to the trolley problem, that’s the whole point of it. Either you do nothing and multiple people die, or you do something and kill one person. Either way, you have to live with the fact that your decision cost others their lives. It may haunt you more to know that you actively killed someone, but deep down, your conscience isn’t any dirtier than if you did nothing, because you could’ve saved multiple people by doing something and you didn’t. Not doing anything just gives you a degree of separation from the consequences of your actions, or lack thereof. Doesn’t mean five people didn’t die because of your decision, it just means that it’ll haunt you less, because at least you didn’t have to be the one to run them over. If the train killed them, and you didn’t direct it to do that, is it really your fault? Replace train with Dibala, and you get the problem Chase faced. Either it’s your fault and someone died, or it’s not your fault and thousands of others did. The point of the trolley problem is to make you question morality, not the worth of human life. Of course it’s better if fewer people die, that’s not what the trolley problem is about; it’s about what you can live with knowing you did or didn’t do.

[@tally9542]

​@@biolett553 Everyone has their own set of moral axioms about what is good and bad, and seek to maximise them. I'm a utilitarian, not a (disgusting) deontologist. I believe deontology is fundamentally childish, and leads to consistently bad outcomes. Therefore, I also believe it is evil. If you make decisions about other people's lives on a rationalisation of "what can I live with", I think you are a failure and should lie down on the track yourself. Life is always a decision of lesser of 2 evils. In both cases it's your fault someone died, but if he let Dibala live, it'd be his fault that thousands died instead of just 1 dictator. You're right in saying you're not morally any dirtier because you killed him, choosing inaction is still an action. My position on succeeding and failing the trolley problem is subjective, as is any other moral conundrum, and I hold to the subjective conclusion, that he didn't fail at being a good person.

[@pi286]

@@biolett553 So God would send you to hell for killing 1 guy to save 100k+... but if you just chilled and let him kill 100k+ you go to heaven?

[@nitramx1470]

@@pi286I’m an atheist, but as I see it, god would see a sin as a sin regardless of the whole “for the greater good” stuff. You are not the judge, jury or executioner, he is. It would be the peak of hubris to think otherwise. The whole societal obligation to seek justice on others behalf is a postmodern discovery, that has no roots in religion (to my knowledge) and when you think about it, it’s simply easier to herd sheep if you teach them to herd themselves.

[@blank7998]

​@@tally9542of course the house md watcher would have such an inhumane philosophical position lol Agree with the "lesser" premise though

[@evankraabel5415]

Chase is the least selfish peraon involved. You think it was selfish for him to do something he knew was right, but which nearly destroyed a core part of him, his faith, in the process?

[@jhk3594]

How is passing judgment reason enough for taking someone's life.

[@evankraabel5415]

@@jhk3594 Because we have data that backs up the belief that doing so is the lesser evil. Chase failing to act would have cost thousands or millions their lives. Just because one action is inaction doesn't make it any better than the results it causes. What choosing inaction does is cost a million people their lives while allowing Chase personally to sleep a little better at night.

[@minnybri2010]

I agree. The selfish thing would have been NOT to kill Dibala--if Chase didn't kill him, knowing what he knew, he'd be deciding that keeping his peace of mind and holding to his oaths as a doctor was worth more than hundreds of thousands of other people. Later he told Cameron something like "Even if it destroys me, I'd do it again tomorrow".

[@Minezanians]

@@jhk3594 Your logic is precisely why "niceness" or "goodness" is not a virtue. "Good" people selfishly condemn millions to death and agony in order to protect their personal morality, those who are willing to betray their own morality to protect others is far more impressive.

[@AttackHelicopter64]

@@jhk3594 "Would you kill Hitler?" - "Yes, of course" "Would you kill genocidal dictator? " - "No, I can't pass judgment reason enough" same vibe

[@TheTSense]

6:02 "Every human life is sacred" "What is sacred about a dictator that kills a lot of his people?" "what is sacred about a doctor that kills his patient?" "My points exactly, nothing"

[@FelipeKana1]

great point. Goes to show that maybe Chase's faith keeps him to unrealistic standards

[@f_homo-s]

The priest was trying to prove that in the same way Chase is still a sacred creation of God even though he murdered a patient. The same goes for the dictator he killed.

[@fess3932]

That's a stupid point. The priest is making the point that Chase brought himself down to the level of the dictator. What kind of doctor is a doctor that considers killing his own patients? What kind of doctor tries to play god? No different than a dictator who does.

[@victorpradha9946]

Perhaps the premise of seeking to be sacred is the true flaw. The practical is what matters most. In the real world, practically speaking not EVERY life is sacred. While we hem & haw about executing convicted savage murderers, hundreds of thousands if not millions of comparatively innocent lives die of preventable causes--violence, malnourishment, abuse/neglect, non-treated/under-treated medical conditions for which society does little to next to nothing about. Thus, practically speaking, no...not every life is sacred, or rather we truly do NOT practice that axiom. Chase is grappling with the weight of having taken a life, knowingly and with deliberate intention. He is concerned what exactly that reveals about his nature. I am reminded of Wyatt Earp saying to his brother Morgan.--"You don't ever wanna know [what that feels like]!"--in speaking about how it feels to take a life. Chase knows that what he did is morally defensible, but that does NOT erase the fact that he orchestrated the death of another person, that too as a doctor regarding a patient in his care. And Chase did so utilizing his medical knowledge; it's not like he simply refused to resuscitate someone who went into cardiac arrest. Chase is grappling with what this means in terms of what kind of a person / kind of doctor he is. It's not so much a crisis of faith but a crisis of conscience and self-identity. What's brilliant here is this character arc continues through Cameron and Chase's split and onward til the episode entitled "Chase" (S8E12). In that episode, there comes a certain crescendo for Chase's crisis of conscience. He finds himself in love with a postulant about to complete her final vows for entrance into the strictest of Orders, prohibiting nearly all human contact. When the object of his affections believes that she experienced a NDE that absolved her of the guilt of the death of young child in her care (as the child's nanny), Chase is keen on disabusing her "self-delusion" by convincing her that it was just a flood of chemicals from the trauma and then the surgery that produced her "vision". House gives the most revelatory admission of the series in trying to convince Chase NOT to take away the woman's peace because however delusional that peace may be, it provides her comfort and meaning and purpose. Chase in pursuing love, cannot strip that all away from her and hope to somehow salvage a relationship with her. It's at this moment that Chase realizes that all this time he has been so merciless upon himself about all that he did with respect to Dibala. Chase realizes he can let go...and let Moira (the postulant) pursue her journey, even if that means it's without Chase. Chase is finally able to let go of the weight of his past actions realizing that all this time, his House-like insistence on rationalism did NOT serve him as on balance, Chase did good, and he did right and even though the consequences for him were heavy, and that's fine because Chase can in fact live with that, he can in fact let go and find peace with whatever follows. Chase finally embraces the path that as a doctor, he can allow some flexibility of the rational, empirical standard both for his patients and for himself.

[@yellowlynx]

The word "sacred" is to describe things that are irrational and have reasons, much like when we use "tradition" to defend something that makes no sense.

[@hollyb6885]

Chase in the confessional was heartbreaking. Well done.

[@neilpemberton5523]

The moronic priest certainly helped break my heart.

[@medikpac7105]

@@neilpemberton5523 The priest wasn't wrong.

[@neilpemberton5523]

@medikpac7105 It was terrible pastoral care. The first question the priest should have asked himself was "is this man a continuing threat to others' lives or his own?", instead of immediately backing Chase into a corner. He was careless about Chase's mental health.

[@cargopilotguy305]

@@neilpemberton5523he was telling Chase the truth and caring for his soul. Chase killed a man and was not repentant; he just wanted freedom from his own conscience. He even calls his victim “the worst person in the world.” As if he’s in any position to be able to judge that and as if his judgement meant it was morally acceptable to commit an evil act to prevent an evil act. Catholicism is not utilitarianism.

[@neilpemberton5523]

@@cargopilotguy305 I know all this. But it was still awful pastoral care. The next day the priest opens the paper and sees a doctor has committed suicide. He worked for Dr House, who treated Dibala. Does he get to thinking maybe I should have tried to form a relationship with the dead doctor instead of giving him only two minutes after he just admitted to killing a genocidal dictator? But that's okay. He can confess to a priest higher up, get absolved, and go on with his life. I went to an Anglican bible college, and at no stage were we told to behave exactly as that priest behaved. It's basic pastoral care. And btw, Dibala was pretty much the worst person in the world. Have you even watched the episode in full?

[@hot_soup4319]

In this trolley problem, there are 3 tracks: -1 man -Empty -5 people If you pull the lever left, you kill the one man. If you don't pull the lever, 5 people die. If you pull the lever right, you save both. But right after, the single man gets up and murders the other 5. What do you do?

[@autholicas9658]

Batman fans disliked that

[@C.k.101]

Red Hood Fans liked that

[@zoltanrobertlovas4672]

can you make it drift?

[@richcast66]

Chase went through his version of the trolly problem. He pulled the switch, saving countless lives. But the dictator was run over by that train. I wonder what percentage of people would have made the same decision Chase made. I'd assume most wouldn't, the weight of that call is way too much.

[@macmcleod1188]

I think it depends on the society. I think in some societies, it would be very difficult to do it. Meanwhile, in other societies most people would have little difficulty doing it.

[@R0S3inC0NCR33T]

@@macmcleod1188a big factor is distance. For Chase and maybe for you and me, it was a thought experiment. For somebody living under Dibala’s regime, the moral calculations would have been very different.

[@2EKgn16]

@@R0S3inC0NCR33T Indeed, those living under his regime would have pulled that switch and even reversed over the body. It's easier for people to be moral and righteous when they aren't up close to the issue.

[@kmarasin]

I caution you that this is not precisely the trolley problem. The difference is significant. If couched in terms of the trolley problem, what happened here is that the trolley wouldn't have killed x amount of innocent people if you did nothing. The man on the track you refused to divert the trolley onto got up and machine gunned a bunch of people after you saved him. You merely had his admission that he wanted to do so. The difference is a matter of responsibility. People are not generally considered to be automatons the way a rolling trolley is. D'Bala's choices are his own, and Chase is not responsible for them no matter how you spin the situation. If Chase wants influence over the outcome of the situation AND absolution, the priest is right. He has no choice but to turn himself in and accept the burden of having killed someone.

[@macmcleod1188]

@kmarasin agree with most but chase only "has no choice" due to his guilt which springs from his upbringing. In many cultures, chase could have killed D'Bala without guilt and had no need to turn himself in. He might have even slept better at night. Even in his religion, the holy book says, "happy is the man who dashes infants heads on rocks" and records genocide by a happy people against people of other faiths. Oh, and it's still in the "class" of trolley problems as is the problem of whether to take organs from a healthy person to save five other people. His inaction would have let thousands die.

[@kdmdlo]

By the way, that is NOT what would happen in confession. A priest would never make absolution contingent on turning yourself in. He can encourage it. But it wouldn't be a requirement. Absolution only depends on true contrition and a firm resolution to not commit the sin again (and to avoid the occasion of that sin). Given that it's highly unlikely that Chase would be in that position ever again, the resolution part is all set. And he clearly was contrite.

[@neilpemberton5523]

Yep. It would have been nice if this episode was co-written by a actual religious person who understood how a sensible priest would treat Chase with kid gloves. The priest actually turned a potential parishioner away due to sheer stupidity.

[@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh]

I must forthrightly confess that my religious beliefs now currently vacillate day by day or even hour by hour, but i retain enough "Catholicity" to know that, by definition, if Dr. Chase keeps insisting he did the right thing vis-a-vis the dictator, then he is NOT contrite or penitent, and he is going to confession for wrong / flawed self-exculpatory reasons. Of course, it is easy for me to play armchair philosopher without having to wrestle with the ethical dilemmas involved, but it seems Chase wants the self-congratulatory back-slapping from offing the tyrannical thug, but doesn't want any of the commitant consequences from openly acknowledging what he did. [I missed the relevant episodes--- did he not hide records of what he did, and involve others in his conspiracy to hide that as well.-? Leading others into possible sin is itself a culpable offence...] Now it is quite possible killing that murderous dictator WAS the right thing to do in the eyes of humans, but God tends not to take kindly to those who usurp His prerogatives. You know, the whole "No murder!" Commandment thing.~ The problem then, as the confessional priest rightly sees, lies in that if God disagrees, and in His Divine Wisdom rules that Chase sinned, then Chase's willful impenitence will indeed send him to Hell forever. It sucks to be him if that is the case, but hey, i didn't make the rules... And as the prophet Isaiah indicates, a sinful person (Chase) / nation (Assyria, back then) can be used as the tool of Divine Wrath, without excusing that sinful tool for its own culpability. Fear not, the dictator will not escape his just sentence of eternal torment---> Chase was the weapon in the Divine Hands that delivered the sentence of doom on that wretched soul. However, objectively speaking, it is likely Chase sinned, and will suffer the consequences for not admitting as such.

[@kdmdlo]

@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh Well, I do see your point about Chase's contrition. But he does genuinely seem broken up by the decision. Sure, he's glad he stopped him from killing others ... but he seems quite upset at himself. He seems to be experiencing guilt. Glad I'm not a priest in these circumstances.

[@plmokm33]

Except that he isn't contrite because he thinks he did the right thing. Sure it's highly unlikely that he would ever be in that position again, but IF he was he would do the same thing. He feels remorse yes, but that's not everything contrition is about.

[@kdmdlo]

@@plmokm33 Well, if Chase wasn't contrite or wasn't prepared to do his best not to commit the sin again ... he shouldn't have presented himself for confession. So part of this lies with him. But the priest is able to make a call based on his best judgement. I just can't imagine that a priest would actually withhold absolution in these circumstances.

[@alexpalmer4825]

Honestly agree with Chase. Sometimes gotta do what you gotta do. Some people need to die, you cant always make that call, but sometimes people are so far over the line they need to go. This was open and shut.

[@phantom8906]

Oh man prepare for the fbi open up replies lol

[@somedestinyfanyaknow3703]

I feel like Chase needs to contact the UN, they might give him some leeway in court

[@PJOZeus]

Accusations, nothing more nothing less Would purely depend on whether they wanted him gone or not@@somedestinyfanyaknow3703

[@ashlyn-6614]

the world would've been a better place without dibala

[@fahrenheit2101]

Its not his place to dish out justice. He made a "good" call, but definitely nothing close to a lawful one. And it's not a stupid law, if you let the masses dish out justice that's a recipe for anarchy. Yes, he's a doctor but that changes nothing.

[@jadenprice1463]

to take a life is a burden. doesn't matter if it was a saint or a sinner, its not the evil removed that's the issue, but the damage it does to the one taking a life.

[@thomaswalmsley8959]

There's plenty of times taking a life (in a justified manner) carries no burden to the the killer. You can especially see this in interviews of people who have been in self defense situations. You can also see this in interviews with former soldiers in combat. Probably better to assume there will be a burden (at least if a hypothetical "you" was confronted with the situation) but there plenty examples where that doesn't happen.

[@DisKorruptd]

@@thomaswalmsley8959 as for the soldiers, there is a difference when you have to do it at range, not to mention simply having been trained to be a weapon, to take lives. Chase, in the context of the show, was standing right next to the man he killed.

[@thomaswalmsley8959]

@@DisKorruptd I was addressing addressing general point, not the specific examples. In the specific example there was definitely shown a burden on chase.

[@DisKorruptd]

@@thomaswalmsley8959Yes, and the conditions in which the life is taken is an important consideration.

[@thomaswalmsley8959]

@@DisKorruptd yes but I was not disputing that point. My point was (and I even said on the individual level for you as an actor you should always assume there will he a burden) there is a large enough subset of people or contexts where no psychological burden is incurred. It will do damage most the time (let's just say 80% just to put an number on it, obviously that's not a real derived number) but let also no run that one is always incurred. That's my only point. If you disagree with that assement, we can go futher, but if you agree with it, then we have the same position.

[@mikew.965]

As a Catholic priest, I can say that when a penitent comes to the confessional and they are sorry for their sins, however grave their sins may be, the penitent should NEVER be turned away from the sacrament of Reconciliation. All life is precious but in this case there was moral confusion and outside pressure involved, and the penitent did not know if it was right or wrong at the time. I know that this was written into the episode for the show, but the priest in this situation may have turned this man away from Faith for the rest of his life due to his poor pastoral training. NO ONE should be made to be afraid to approach the sacrament of Reconciliation and denied absolution when they are truly sorry and have contrition for past sins.

[@乌托布斯]

In the show, Chase was studying to become a Catholic priest, so it's kind of a plot hole that he didn't know that the priest can't make Chase turn himself in as penance. He also could've just gone to a different priest.

[@Fossil_Frank]

Ah yes, because avoiding him "turning away from the faith" is far more important than insisting that a criminal faces the consequences of his actions. Indeed, a very Catholic way of thinking. It's amusing that you assume he's "truly sorry" even though he explicitly said he is not and believes it was the right thing to do.

[@mikew.965]

@@Fossil_Frank He wouldn't be sorry (or at least have some contrition) if he had not gone to Confession in the first place. I am not saying that he should be given a free pass for murder, just that the sacrament of confession is supposed to bring spiritual healing and conform one's heart more closely to Christ. Confession brings spiritual healing to the soul, but it does not take away one's civil obligations for the common good of all people. Although he can be forgiven in Confession, as a penance afterwards, for the sake of having a clear conscience, he should be advised to talk to the authorities, but the forgiveness comes first.

[@nicoloserri6071]

​@mikew.965 The forgiveness comes after the repenting, he didn't repent. He still though he did the right thing. He went there just to get an out of jail card with god.

[@lunarro7]

yeah whatever I'd be surpised this block of text alone doesn't turn people away from religion. You can just go on and on

[@grimshock6983]

All they picture is a man who killed. Picture the families, the children that get to enjoy life. The lives they wouldn’t be able to make if that man was still alive

[@ashleybeverly7328]

I felt so bad for Chase. After this episode, he was never the same. His life was never the same, but I guess thats what happens when you take a life😢

[@saradapagediocletian9707]

All the social conditioning can be difficult to overcome.

[@ashleybeverly7328]

Social conditioning?!​@@saradapagediocletian9707

[@jhk3594]

​@@saradapagediocletian9707 Nonsense, he knew what he was doing. He is responsible for his actions. Nothing to do social conditioning or influence.

[@jhk3594]

He lost his innocence in that moment.

[@vic91020]

​@@jhk3594 I believe he is saying Chase was justified in his actions, and that chase feels bad due to social conditioning although he shouldn't

[@DovahkiinDk]

House was very straightforward with him, no bullshit

[@Nikita-qb7xd]

As a doctor, he was a wrong. As a human being, he was right. If I were in his position, I’d be upset for a couple of days but then I’d forget about it because of all the pain and suffering he would’ve caused.

[@ca11rl77]

He did the right thing.

[@ToThePureAllThingsArePure]

this is a good 8 minute synopsis of dostoyevsky's _crime and punishment._

[@КартманКартман-я8ш]

not even close. in crime and punishment, protagonist kills a woman because he is young and stupid, he didnt have money to pay rent and instead of work he goes to a bar and listen a drunk man stories. raskolnikov`s actions are disgraceful. that is straight murder. and woman (pawnbroker) was absolutely innocent (and if i remember correctly, she wasnt even a bad person) chase killed a dictator. person who actually confess in genocide and planed to continue it. this maybe not an act of glory, but definitely moral dilemma where you can agree or disagree with chase, BUT you will empathise him

[@ToThePureAllThingsArePure]

@@КартманКартман-я8ш it's been 30 years since i read it, but from what i remember, it goes on for quite a bit about raskolnikov's moral justifications to himself about why he should kill her -- that in his mind she's basically a useless person who lines her pockets off of the misery of others. he is not inherently a bad person. the point is, regardless of whether you save a few people their hard-earned rent money or save hundreds of thousands from genocide, the moral prohibition against murder is for the peace of the soul of the potential murderer, and the one who breaks this law is doomed to torment by his own conscience, especially if he is a somewhat sensitive soul.

[@Zosso-1618]

@@КартманКартман-я8ш I agree Raskolnikov’s reasons for murdering Alyona are compromised by thoughts of selfish gain. But the book also shows that Alyona preys upon the weak and poor and really only harms people, especially her mentally disabled niece whom she abuses. One of the book’s arguments is that consequentialism, as such, is total bunk. That it doesn’t matter how evil someone is, you don’t get to step over morality, put yourself above it all and murder someone “for the greater good”. There’s no inkling of a compromise in that thought, nothing like “Well if Alyona was a really evil dictator and was planning to murder hundreds of thousands and Raskolnikov was planning to kill her to stop all that, then he’d be justified in burying an axe in her skull”. That’s not Crime and Punishment.

[@grimshock6983]

Did he break an oath. Yes. But those are just words. What matters is what is physical. Physically a country is going to be better.

[@danielboyas7645]

Why do you assume that. Hiw many dictatorships get better when the dictator dies. He's just replaced by someone else usually their child who continues his policies. Especially an African warlord.

[@romanj5256]

@@danielboyas7645You didn’t watch the show

[@worldsmostaveragemagician2246]

It is illegal for a priest to require someone to turn themselves in for penance

[@yisus1434]

This episode was so heartbreaking to watch. I feel so bad for Chase when he was struggling to continue with his life after killing Dibala. Later on, the consequences buried his marriage with Cameron and again, too sad to see Chase like that :(

[@l.a.3479]

*heartbreaking

[@yisus1434]

@@l.a.3479 mb

[@yisus1434]

mb@@l.a.3479

[@429PrøductiønźLTD]

Only a sith deals in absolutes

[@dotdot3658]

The makes note of how the dictators death led good outcomes, but in reality that probably wouldn't be the case and more chaos would ensue

[@unknown_individual7050]

Some might consider the individual life absolute and say chase had no right to take Dibala's life, but no matter how you look at it from above, the consequences remain. He doesn't kill him, Dibala returns home and rampages the lives of thousands to hundreds of thousands of innocents. He does kill him, he has to live with the fact that he murdered somebody. Say what you want. Slippery slope this, hippocratic oath that. It doesn't mean anything when killing this dude saved the lives of thousands.

[@SaraMorgan-ym6ue]

this is why murdering is something that will haunt you for the rest of your life dirt bag🤣🤣🤣

[@danielboyas7645]

We assume that's what happened. Who's to say someone else didn't take over as dictator and just continue his legacy like say his son. That's what would've happened more than likely and those people still died. Chase didn't save anyone.

[@miaamer7718]

It's not his job to play god.

[@Koraki0000]

@@miaamer7718 It literally is. As a medic, you metaphorically fight God everyday.

[@Losojostristes]

@@Koraki0000 Death isn't the only aspect of God, your fellow man became a doctor, hopefully, with the intention of healing you regardless of the kind of person you are in this life.

[@peter5.056]

If I was in that position, I'd sleep VERYYYY well afterwards.

[@tasmeenaali3041]

Donny and Chase both end up in the Chicago Fire/PD universe!

[@SiaroBolt]

i was about to comment the same thing lol

[@zach11241]

Chase is sad because he killed Simba’s dad.

[@216cle]

But he also took out Darth Vader

[@saradapagediocletian9707]

Social conditioning is a difficult obstacle to overcome. Sometimes what Chase did is the only right thing to do. Sometimes mercy is the sin.

[@Xander71267]

its actually just murder

[@maybeitsyou1317]

Nah Chase isn't responsible for anything DIbala did. No in the past or in the future. Dibala is responsible for that. Why are so many trying to downplay the evil of dictators like this? Shifting blame for his atrocities to doctors sworn to heal? It's just so ignorant that people actually look at the world in this way. Also enormous hypocrites as none of the people advocating this "Chase was right" garbage would actually do that. And what guarantee is their that this Dibala isn't replaced by an even worse guy that kills even more. Then what? Is Chase still right? This is more then a slippery slope.

[@Random-om8rq]

'i've crossed some line and i'm having trouble getting back to the other side' yeah no kidding.

[@LeopardKing-im4bm]

The hatred of hatred is love. And sometimes you have to enact violence to stop it. Anyone who loves confidence must veer away from paradox.

[@navigatorofthevalley]

Said no priest ever.

[@myeonbunkim3237]

Chase is the representation of every person who actually have an intact and working moral compass. Cameron is one of those loud ones we see everyday, probably goes to church every Sunday and is always quick to point out each bad deed they see. But when horrible things happen, they'll be the ones posting "thoughts and prayers" meanwhile people like Chase will be the ones going onsite and doing actual work to help. Yes, rules and laws exist. But education and experience tell you that laws exist mostly to control the majority of the world that is poor and powerless. Laws don't apply to the rich. They don't apply to dictators. No matter how we wish for there to be equality, it just simply isn't there. What happened here in my opinion is an extremely rare case where a good but powerless person was given the opportunity to tip the scales slightly into the favor of the weak. It wasn't RIGHT, but it was GOOD. It didn't change the world, but it sure as hell saved thousands of people.

[@myeonbunkim3237]

@@MrMalkraz it's called an ethical dilemma and what we're doing here is debating it. Maybe if you came up with a better argument than "murderer cope" it'll be more fun 😅 Humans are complex and everyone has different motivations. It's those motivations that sort the good murderer from a bad murderer. If all killing is bad then why is it ok when cops shoot down a criminal? Why are war heroes celebrated?

[@myeonbunkim3237]

@@MrMalkraz meh. you're boring 😒

[@2EKgn16]

@@myeonbunkim3237 Exactly! All this! Ignore the Camerons in the comments, they are useless where it counts.

[@NewbInLife]

@@MrMalkraz only point you made is you're too stupid to take part in engaging discussions

[@S.D.323]

Man I struggle with my murderous decisions all the time too relatable of a title

[@phil-2725]

People are misunderstanding the priest. It's not about whether Chase was "right" or "wrong" by breaking his oath as a healer. It is quite simple. Total absolution is possible, but only when Chase bears the consequences of his decision. It *was* his decision, he made consciously and premeditated. He chose to, in his mind, do the right thing. But a responsible adult understands that there is no free lunch in this life, that the bill always comes due, while an irresponsible person seeks to avoid reality and hide from the consequences of their decisions. "But... but he was evil!" Yes, he was, and you probably made the world a better place. But you cannot bargain with God. You're still a murderer. For many people, waiting for the other shoe to drop is worse than the drop. There is a world in which a punished Chase is finally free of the burden of his sin, despite being judged and locked away by his peers.

[@robsmith6281]

Chase killed Darth Vader.

[@TheImpatientGam3r]

Whats selfish is putting your own morals above the well being of others. Chase sacrificed himself to save others, somthing that alot of weaker people couldnt do.

[@Thathestiadevotee]

It was selfish of Chase to stop interacting with Cameron, lie to her, and disappear on her to the point that she was about to file a missing person report and then act like he hadn’t done anything wrong.

[@darkurges]

@@Thathestiadevoteei think it’s more selfish to gaslight your own husband into thinking he’s a terrible person for struggling with trauma. not to mention the fact she wanted to kill dibala as well, or are you just going to forget that?

[@Thathestiadevotee]

@@darkurges The difference is that she didn’t kill him, and when Cameron did want to kill him, Chase got mad at her for it and then he switched up.

[@Uknowjusticemill]

That last scene just made my blood boil, maybe it's personal experience but I HATE when your partner acts like you are in the wrong for keeping something to yourself, Chase was in a bad spot and was not ready to talk to his wife, yet she got mad at him for keeping a secret. That's not love, that is being a control freak who needs to know everything at all times, and when you don't get your way you act like the victim who is suffering was in the wrong, some people need to process things without the input of others.

[@Thathestiadevotee]

What are you supposed to do when your partner stops interacting with you, lies, and comes home at two in the morning drunk when you’re close to filing a missing persons case? If she had ignored it and acted like it was fine, everyone would have said she was a bad wife. When she tried to talk to him about it and got suspicious when he was doing things that looked a lot like he was having an affair and Cameron tried to figure out what happened, she was a bad wife. Cameron had her ups and downs, yeah, but she could never be good enough for the audience. Cameron had her ups and downs, yeah, but she could never be good enough for this fandom. Chase wasn’t a great husband to Cameron and to me, he was trying to gaslight her into thinking nothing was wrong. He loved her, but he worried her and lied to her and disappeared on her with no warning.

[@Nikita-qb7xd]

No, she’s not wrong for being upset at her husband for completely stopping communication. He could’ve just told her everything he was struggling with. If I were in her position, I’d forgive him. I’m no one to forgive him but i wouldn’t hold it against him.

[@Uknowjusticemill]

@Thathestiadevotee I will play devils advocate and say, I don't think their relationship would work either both parties are not made for each other, it's just a mis match. I still think you should allow your partner time to process, his behavior did look suspicious but you need to trust your partner, talk with them to make sure they are not cheating but then back off and give some space. I've been in a situation like this and her pushing, cost us the relationship simply because she couldn't just wait a few weeks until I was ready to open up, instead she tried to force it out with blackmail which ended the relationship.

[@neilpemberton5523]

You are a German doctor working in a Prague hospital in summer 1942 (how long before you guys figure out what I'm doing here? 😊). A man in the unform of a high ranking officer is wheeled in. He has been injured in a grenade blast. A chill runs down your spine when you recognise him, because your closest and most astute friend has told you in confidence he is the most evil man in the regime in his opinion. As a patriotic German you hate The Leader because of how he has dragged your country into a moral sewer of death and destruction. Your Jewish fiancee fled Germany some years ago and you have reconciled yourself to the strong possibility she will marry another man in America, because you told her you wanted her to have a long happy life no matter what, and no smart person wants to live in a country which has given her the suffering Germany has. You quickly realise you are trusted enough in your position to withhold the best treatment option for the blood poisoning this man will suffer. You can swap out the best drugs and maybe he will die. You know local people will die in reprisals, but you know what this man is like, that he will kill millions without a second thought. What do you do?

[@jayfisher3359]

I am Dr. Slanina

[@Losojostristes]

I treat him because I am not God. I have no idea what a man who survived a grenade blast will be like once he leaves my hospital and if I'm truly reconciled with losing a loved one, I wouldn't be thinking of vengeful murder now would I?

[@jbc6980]

It’s no different than killing on a battlefield.

[@neometalx9]

he should be proud of what he did tho...

[@coltclassic45]

His face at 5:20 should be a meme. 😂

[@Customgirl123]

lol - a catholic priest would NEVER sent somone from his perish to the police. it would be a complete violation of the seal.

[@janklaas6885]

📍5:16 yes it was

[@bethfiori4708]

That priest wasn't priest-like.

[@TheExeption]

After rewatching the show. Cameron killed someone. She had no right to treat him the way she did

[@kiratherenegade1561]

Chase learned a hard lesson in life. Women don't always mean what they say.

[@Romial34]

I always thought that this was a season 2 storyline. It feels like it. Not that it's a bad thing at all.

[@ericstanke3291]

People dont live in a bubble, actions have real world consequences. The dictator lives how many 10s of thousands of people die at the hands of a murderous psychopath? Sometimes doing the right comes at a steep price but Chase did what had to be done to prevent the slaughter of those people. Or look at it this way, Chase's job is to save lives, which was the greater good? How many lives did he save by one life being ended? i'd do what he did in a second and sleep like a baby. And the confessional bullshit, eat it. Chase did the right thing. Where was God when those people in that country were murdered? Where would God have been when the dictator returned home and continued the slaughter?! Watching from the sidelines and working in his mysterious ways?!

[@colinmackinnon696]

Chase did nothing wrong.

[@garylouderback4338]

Who are the energy vampires

[@EphemeralProductions]

i CANNOT be watching these! I;'m gonna end up in a full-on house binge again!!! LOL did that about 10 years ago. Don't need to do it again! LOL trying to forget that I skipped season 2; if I don't , i'll end up watching all of those!

[@GM-ks1pn]

bro got his soul split after killing someone like in harry potter

[@thomaswillard6267]

Crazy Reboot idea, Chase is arrested for the assassination and the show is House coming out of hiding to take the fall

[@Bellatrixqr]

Which episode is this?

[@ianboyle1026]

The ethical dilemma is BS. Chase is primarily a doctor, yes, but life sometimes changes us, temporarily or permanently, hands us a different role, and in the case of Dilbala, life changed Chase temporarily into a soldier. He did exactly the right thing, in the role fate put him in at that moment. Someone needs to just point that out to him, and let him get on with resuming his normal role. And while they're at it, kick the sanctimonious priest in the nuts.

[@Alex-ye9pg]

Well, it is kind of a dilemma. A Doctor is supposed to care for their patients and nothing else - so where is the line? Should Chase kill murderers and rapists? Thieves? Where is the line in how bad of a person that he's allowed to kill them? What if he killed the Dictator and the Dictators replacement was 100x worse? It's a dilemma as well because he committed a crime and he's concealing that crime. I'm not siding either way btw, plus if that's how the show went we would get the Doctor version of Dexter (but hopefully not the last few seasons).

[@ianboyle1026]

@@Alex-ye9pg You argue a good case, but I believe the key to my position is the word "soldier". Extraordinary circumstances overtook Chase -- in effect he found himself in a warzone -- and rendered him more soldier than doctor, for a time. There's no way he's going to make the change permanent, or revisit it, he's too much a doctor, but for that brief moment in his life, he was someone different. It happens to people.

[@miaamer7718]

@@ianboyle1026 There a doctor's in war too and even they are to heal people there, not play god.

[@ianboyle1026]

@@miaamer7718 Not relevant. I'm saying that Chase's situation was extraordinary -- he didn't choose to go into a war zone as a doctor; he found himself unexpectedly in one as someone other than a doctor. The psychology of his circumstances is very different. As I said, he found himself effectively turned into a kind of soldier, for a short time. I doubt if many of us know just how we'd react to the situation. Some doctors would undoubtedly heal the evil dictator, knowing no other way to behave. Others might very well do what Chase did.

[@miaamer7718]

@@ianboyle1026 A) You are aware he is in a hospital not a war zone, right? B) If he could leave his personal feelings aside he could have always passed it off to another doctor. C) They would probably go to jail and loose their medical license, if they did the same as chase. D) And considering you have taken an oath to heal people regardless of personal biases, those doctors that you say might have done what chase did, don't deserve to be doctors.

[@Dominus_Maximus]

I would have done the same thing, Chase

[@willnash7907]

As much as I like my Kant, sic semper tyrannis.

[@yugnok]

The confession is complete BS. That isn't how it works. Can't be bothered to ask a Catholic how confession works. A priest can't withhold absolution in order to force someone makes their sin public. All that is required is contrition. This is nonsense.

[@hellodolly9840]

Enter.. ether.. alchemy

[@whychoooseausername4763]

Oh, the age when doctors were allowed to wear watches....

[@Thathestiadevotee]

Everyone in the comments is acting like Cameron was awful for how she was with Chase during the Dibala saga, but are we just going to ignore the fact that he was pretty bad to her? She tried to talk to him, tried to ask what was happening, tried to help, but he dismissed her. He started obviously avoiding her, even at home, he lied to her several times, and he disappeared without warning and came home drunk as Cameron was filing a missing person report. Cameron couldn’t have known that his issues were being caused by Dibala, and his behavior looks like a textbook affair.

[@Intensive-Gamin]

Drinking is not the answer thou it's everyone's go to or drugs I couldn't handle in any situation if my wife pulled away from like that emotionally Do you think chase did right thing?

[@anjelica948]

It depends on what you see as right. If you believe it’s wrong to take a life, then Chase was in the wrong. If you believe that taking a life to prevent further loss of life is morally justified, then Chase was right.

[@hellodolly9840]

Just say daddie

[@arnoldmuvadi2364]

Help didn't help...😢

[@ObiWanBockobi]

This is good television. I don't agree or disagree with Chase, and that's the point, the show makes you struggle with the decision just as the character is. It draws you in and causes you to be a part of the drama.

[@hellodolly9840]

The way it B

[@TheBasedTyrant]

I'm pretty sure the police don't grant absolution and the priest should know this. He doesn't need to confess to an Earthly authority now he just needs to feel guilty when he confesses. Then again, I don't think anything is sacred and neither does God, he kills people all the time, and sometimes commands people to do so. The ten commandments are really just a set of guidelines, the only real rule is to do as God commands. If Chase was a good Christian then he would arrogantly assert that it was God's will that Dibala die, and he was just carrying it out. It would be his word against the Priest, what's the Priest gonna do? Is he gonna call God up on the phone and ask him if he gave that command or not? Is he gonna argue that God is based and doesn't care about genocide? That God has committed genocide himself and commanded people to do so, so God would most certainly favor Dibala? Is he gonna say that Dibala was doing God's will and Chase interfered? All of these would all be really believable arguments, (except the first one) but in the interest of keeping Chase from leaving the faith he might want to stick with the simple, "God is the only judge and maybe repent a little more sincerely" Telling him to go to the police is an insane thing for a priest to suggest, unless he means to suggest that he knows the police are a higher authority than God, because they really exist. If he doesn't know that (which he shouldn't) then why ask Chase to talk to them.

[@kbforme]

This is one of the most interesting ethical questions. Personally I would treat the man as any other.

[@Axqu7227]

Then you’d get to enjoy having the blood of millions on your hands instead of just one! 😊

[@kbforme]

@@Axqu7227It all washes off just the same.

[@Nikita-qb7xd]

@@kbformeIt really doesn’t.

[@esould]

I would just denied to take the case. If it was necessary I would quit my job.

[@chefluciana]

I just watched this episode

[@askjeevescosby2928]

The thing is chase didn't have anywhere near enough information to kill that guy. What one guy tells him to kill him and he does it. Bad move. Plus a new person would take over and do the same thing so he didn't even save any lives.

[@wobby1268]

On the contrary, Chase had all the information he needed, most of it from Dibala himself: he had committed genocide (though he disliked the word, that's what it was) in the past, he intended to *continue* committing genocide, AND he was the only one in his cabinet of advisors who felt that way -- he openly derided even his closest advisors as "weak" pacifists who wanted to "negotiate" and sign peace treaties. In fact, it was that little speech that sealed his fate; Chase knew then that, with Dibala gone, cooler and more rational heads would prevail.

[@askjeevescosby2928]

@wobby1268 but you have no idea of th other people weren't just as violent.

[@wobby1268]

@@askjeevescosby2928 Again: "He [Dibala] openly derided even his closest advisors as 'weak' pacifists who wanted to 'negotiate' and sign peace treaties." Those advisors *were* the "other people," and they would (and in fact did) take the reins of power after Dibala's death....which is why Chase noted at the end of the episode that the moderates had taken over and there was hope for peace talks.

[@hellodolly9840]

Ethi cal i???

[@brendan7704]

Anyone agreeing with Chase is missing the point. A Doctors oath is to help everyone regardless of who it is. They do not have the right to be judge, jury or executioner. It’s a slippery slope

[@hellodolly9840]

Theo retic ally.. I cood but I wont

[@abeltesfaye_]

Hope Benjamin Netanyahu's doctor becomes inspired by Chase 🙏🏽

[@Stuart267]

*He's a hero protecting his country. BIG DIFFERENCE.*

[@Stuart267]

Since when did it become trendy to support terrorists anyway?

[@Stuart267]

October 7th happened

[@Stuart267]

What's happening now is a response to it. Reap what you sow.

[@spiralbones]

Watching this after finishing and realizing Morgan never loved Chase you can see how it affects his character.

[@Cloverleaf...tounge]

15 min gang also finally got prime

[@angiebelle9440]

I am furious I am 8 minutes behind

[@Grand_Master_Skywalker]

You realize House is on Hulu also right

[@giftedmonster5293]

The confessional scene is emblematic of why I've lost a great deal of respect for mainline Christian and Catholic orthodoxy. All they do is pass the problem down. And I say this as a Christian. Chase saved over a hundred thousand lives. More than the Pope has ever done.

[@biggiesmol]

I wonder if he would had done the same if it was Henry Kissinger.

[@wobby1268]

All else being equal -- and providing that diplomatic immunity protected Kissinger from prosecution as it did Dibala -- no doubt he would have.

[@gerardomacias8130]

Priest messed up that last part. Whatever chase decides to do he must repent and live not for himself but for God. That way no matter if he falls Gods got him even more. Even if u don’t believe u can’t tell me God ain’t ever tapped ur shoulder and dropped a little hint or a care package or a nice emotion. Believer or not we are sinner but we’re made by the God of love light and truth to love

[@neilpemberton5523]

Yep. How many secular writers does it take to misunderstand Christian forgiveness? Just one.

[@jekyll011]

@@neilpemberton5523 Christian "forgiveness" is a morally reprehensible concept from the get go. The worst part is not that we have a fairy tale that people take as true, while we have absuletely no reason to think it is (altough having flawed epistemological framework is pretty bad in itself), but that religion hijacked the concept of morailty, and perverted people's idea of what actual love, and forgiveness is.

[@neilpemberton5523]

@@jekyll011 I never debate atheists.

[@f_homo-s]

@@jekyll011Good job saying “religion destroyed morality” in 10 diffrent ways. Now most people reading are gonna want these things called details and references. Start listing because what you just said is completely inaccurate.

[@xxmajesticsailorjupiterxx7951]

I honestly don’t know how I should feel about Chase anymore he murdered a man but at the same time the man didn’t deserve to live

[@miaamer7718]

No worries you can always hate him for his Fat phobia

[@Sniperboy5551]

Murder is murder, whether it’s one or hundreds of thousands. If Chase had the balls to kill the guy, he should’ve had the balls to turn himself in. I’m glad he didn’t though, it makes for more riveting television.

[@neilpemberton5523]

And Cuddy would have visited Chase in just once to say "You idiot. People like that man killed six million of my people in WW2. You should have come to me."

[@f_homo-s]

Exactly

[@hellodolly9840]

If God can create from dirt.. sx for what???

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

Her reaction is the reason men bottle up emotions. They are useless baggage.

[@alexritchie4586]

Chase broke his oath, the most sacred institution of healthcare. Doctors are not judge, jury, and executioner for a reason. He was wrong to do what he did.

[@miaamer7718]

I agree with you. Even though I see both perspectives of the argument.

[@miaamer7718]

I kinda also see a perspective of Camren too. Like you said, he took the physician's oath, to do no harm to others. He broke his oath. Do you know what else is an Oath? Marriage. If he can easily break that oath he took as a doctor then it could be very easy for him to break that oath that he made in his marriage to his wife. A man is only as true as his word. so when you break that word, you prove that you are not all that trustworthy.

[@newenglandsun4394]

The priest was right here.

[@gregh5061]

The captain was right, he just took out the trash. This whole moral relativism bullshit is..bullshit. Chase and House are chaotic good, not lawfully good.

[@thunderlighting2006]

Chase did the right thing religion is a guideline to have a good life doesn't mean it's a step by step instruction but you shouldn't consider it as taking out the trash either the choice has to effect the person that's what stops us from going down the dark slope

[@sorin_markov]

@@gregh5061 Deciding that killing one person is taking out the trash while killing another isn't acceptable *is* moral relativism

[@sorin_markov]

@@thunderlighting2006 That's not what religion says. Either you accept that a particular religion is a binding law handed down from a supernatural entity or you reject it altogether. The "oh it's just good moral teaching" argument is logically absurd

[@newenglandsun4394]

@@gregh5061With the captain, you are talking about a police officer who is dealing with actively violent people regularly. But Chase is a doctor. And House would not have approved killing a dictator either. He literally helped a death row inmate in season 1 and challenged Cameron's ethics for her refusing.

[@Galaxyruler]

First 5min gang

[@brucebanksshow]

Even the priest didn't agree with Chase 😂😂😂. He keeps trying to convince himself that what he did was right when it wasn't. Instead of just accepting that it wasn't and being ok with that.

[@minnybri2010]

I disagree with how Chase feels about it--he's not trying to convince himself what he did was right, he KNOWS what he did was right. But it FEELS wrong, and he doesn't know how to process and accept those feelings.

[@Xander71267]

@@minnybri2010 how is murdering someone right? lmao

[@Koraki0000]

@@Xander71267 Because that person would kill thousands of other people? Are you saying you wouldn't kill Hitler if you had the chance?

[@lorenzocassaro3054]

Guys, killing people is never good.

[@doupnetwork]

Murderer... He is basically Scar because he killed Mufasa 😂 But seriously even a dictator that orders people to die is no different than our own leadership whom we try to look at like the "good guys" Opposition is Opposition even if it's your own country-men and leaders have to make decisions even if some people see them as bad decisions. Taking action get this one killed but not taking action would have probably got him killed too

[@TheGingeGames]

first

[@berry-o4p]

House couldn't hold a relationship cause of selfsihness. Chase couldn't either. No wonder this SHOW did what it did. Poor women

[@miaamer7718]

I know right. House 1) Let Stacey go because of his inability to let the fact that she went against him in the choice for his leg. Then when they were thinking of reconciling his tells her to go back to her husband. 2) With Camren he was pushing her away for fear of getting hurt. 3)With cuddy he crashed his car into her house. She left him because he was using again too. And she has a daughter that she wasn't going to endanger . As far as I can tell the only relationship chase had was with Cameron, and he screwed that up when he killed someone.( and I know so people are going to come at me telling me that the guy was a dictator that deserved it, and I'd agree, but still Chase shouldn't have done that.) With Forman, the only relationship I saw him in was with 13 (my favorite character BTW) and screwed it up when he was not willing to make the same sacrifices of quitting and finding a new job that she was. Willison ( who always struck me as a male version of Allison) Had himself quite a few divorces, then with Amber she died. Talb was a serial cheater, So I don't think you need much explanation on why his relationships didn't work out. And that's all the men on House M.D

[@Cramhead43]

Comedy of the absurd