Stuffing Whales into a Spaceship!

[@mrg3241]

In the Star Trek world, the inconsistency of the Bird of Prey's size is insignificant next to the inconsistency of how long the writers think a kilometer is.

[@MichaelBrown1977]

Lol

[@DeeJaysterity]

Why did I read this in Darth Vader's voice...

[@mrg3241]

@@DeeJaysterity lol

[@beauxr.benoit1374]

Or as to what Maximum Warp actually is. And the inability for ships to go past Warp 10, however that Admiral Riker's Enterprise with three naselles was capable of Warp 13.

[@ai6894]

After all, they made 1 km ≈ 1 _kellicam_ in "The Search for Spock."

[@pairaka984]

Even if the scales don’t match up, we all know that Scotty was a miracle worker. He would have made them fit in a shuttle.

[@GlenDevan1970]

As canned fish or something like that?! 🤔😄😉

[@j-bob_oreo]

where do you think he got the idea for how he survived into tng ? he would just put the transporter in a test loop and store their patterns in the buffer

[@user-zh4vo1kw1z]

Timelord technology a a stable of starship design in Star Trek

[@brandonp2756]

@@j-bob_oreo came here to comment something just like that lol

[@davehart1027]

Welp, thereotically speaking, they couldve re programmed the transporters to materialise them on a smaller scale? I mean, therreotically again, you could transport a burger, save the data, put it in a blender, then transport the mush to materialise as the burger with the saved data? Although, given that thinking, then, if they saved the data of someone from when they were say 20 years old, and transported them when they were say 80, with organically grown material to replace ageing cells, or a healthy donor, would they materialize as a 20 year old them?

[@gallifreyarchives4434]

Klingons having moving corridors makes sense to me, from a cultural standpoint as well as practical. With the Klingons being a warrior culture, adaptability to any given situation is a worthy skill to have. So having a cargo bay that is versatile and can adapt to different cargos, (eg different sized kills from hunts, or scavenged bits of tech from a raid) makes sense.

[@pwnmeisterage]

The ship had many different configurations. Some with more cargo, some with more fuel or ammo or troops or sensors or whatever instead. A versatile ship - used for patrols, interdictions, raids, combat, scouting, transport - so it does make sense for this "cargo bay" to be a reconfigurable (maybe even a replaceable/swappable) module.

[@Bean41]

Kingon runabout?

[@spejic1]

It's kind of like the Littoral Combat Ships of the US Navy, which have massive empty areas designed to be filled with the equipment for whatever mission they are on, like minesweeping or landing special forces or whatever.

[@danamoore1788]

Having the central corridor move also means you can keep that a bit more structural and thus toughen the ship without using as much power on inertial dampers. The only issue I have in this is the getting the transparent aluminum inside they lowered it via helicopter. Through an engineering space?

[@seantape6628]

Klingons prefer LIVE food (preferably gagh & targs). Remember the Enterprise episode where they find a 22nd century Klingon Raptor caught in a gas giant & T'Pol, Hoshi, & Malcolm beam over? Among other things, they found a targ pit aboard. My bet is(prior to the alliance with the Federation), Klingon ships were used to going LONG PERIODS without resupply (or shore leave--see: "The Trouble With Tribbles" ) So it makes sense that they would need A LOT of livestock for their missions. Hence the large cargo bay in even a scout vessel.

[@mitwhitgaming7722]

I always imagine that people making movies in the 80's had no idea how obsessed people would get with details like this.

[@scytheseven9173]

Actually, Andrew Probert (who designed the Enterprise-D and Enterprise Refit for TMP, and was interviewed on this channel) did know, that's one of the reasons his designs were super detailed.

[@antonisauren8998]

Even now with everything composed in 3d and bunch of nerds discusing it for decades, scale varies to fit scene composition. And yet I never heard anybody blaming Rouge One for it or imagining new types of star destroyers. :P

[@derrickstorm6976]

Nah, more just depends on the people making the designs, if they care or not

[@scytheseven9173]

@@antonisauren8998 I mean they literally did that in Episode IX-the Xyston is a 1.5x scale ISD I model from Rogue One with minor alterations! God that was dumb.

[@scytheseven9173]

@@derrickstorm6976 I mean it's not always up to the designers-for instance, iirc Probert knew that one set wouldn't actually fit into the saucer section and objected, but was told that it was fine because nobody would notice (he knew they would, and was right).

[@eschatondesign7218]

"I've been looking forward to this." - some random Count of Serenno, idk

[@EVAUnit4A]

The proper scaling of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey is a meme amongst Trekkies.

[@InventorZahran]

Trekkers, or Trekkies?

[@EVAUnit4A]

@@InventorZahran I prefer and regularly use "Trekker", because someone is going on a trek, whereas "trekkie" sounds like an insult or mocking. (Seems to me Gene Roddenberry was asked this question, and honestly I can't remember his answer, but it is certain he's not the one who came up with either word.)

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I prefer Trekkie. Sounds neat for me.

[@AnthemAnimation]

@@EVAUnit4A Trekker is our word, you can say trekka

[@pwnmeisterage]

There was a time when "Trekkers" vs "Trekkies" was (to both groups) an important and sometimes controversial distinction.

[@GeahkBurchill]

EC Henry is exactly the kind of fan who should be earning money creating canon and lore for major franchises. That fact that neither Viacom or Disney are tossing money at him with a catapult is a crime against art.

[@exilestudios9546]

@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff if you are referring to the tie dagger thing EC Henry addressed that and he doesn't think they did as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with a tie fighter with triangle wings.

[@danamoore1788]

I think the problem is Hollywood producers do not see consistent canon as necessary to budget for. Heck one reason I heard the bird of prey was used so much in TNG as so many ship classes was they could buy the ship models anywhere. Not so much with others. Cutting costs increases profits or at least means you can spend the money on say having the disruptors firing.

[@Firefox13A]

Probably why 'NuTrek' and 'Store Warz' can't figure out starship scales without changing it every other interview.

[@Riceball01]

@@danamoore1788 They probably only had one model. The ting to remember is that the models used in movies and TV are tupically much, much larger than the model kist you buy at the hobby shop. As far as scaling goes,it's very easy to mess with the size of ships post, even before the use of CG. More oten than not, these models would be shot separately then compostied together into the same scene later. So by setting the camera, or the focus/zoom of the lens, closer or frather from the mdoel you can change how small or large the model will appear on film.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Ya they hire yes men not TALENT.

[@UGNAvalon]

“How many humpback whales can we fit into a spaceship? Join me as I painstakingly & accurately recreate ship models & movie scenes in order to answer this question!” Seriously tho, so much dedication in order to answer a question that must’ve been smoldering at the back of every viewer’s mind since watching these films! Mad respect! xD

[@SephirothRyu]

**Indignant whale noises**

[@darinbauer8122]

Utah Saints used whalesong in some of their tracks. Kinda spacey ravey music from back in the day.

[@jmmartin7766]

I saw this movie when it came out in theaters, and then many times since then (VHS, DVD & streaming), and never once did I give a rip about if the whales fit or not... Still don't. *It's a fictional story, people. Let it go!* Lmao!

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

The D-12 was supposedly 115 m long, crewed by only 12 people as a stealth ship, swinging its wings through all four positions. The B’Rel meanwhile was the light cruiser about 230 m long, onto able to swing its wings down or to a neutral position. Finally, the K’Vort was a heavy frigate/troop transport of 350 m and unable to move its wings at all. And you’re telling me this one wasn’t any of them?!

[@Restilia_ch]

D-12 was TNG era, so that's out.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

@@Restilia_ch Not so. The D-12 was *obsolete* in the TNG era, and implied to be the only remaining ship in Duras’ arsenal, likely a TMP-era relic.

[@RoballTV]

That's the trick the Klingons don't want others to know, it was all of them, the entire time. How else does an empire that spends most of its time in economic turmoil field a fleet that can handle any situation? with the secret 'one size fits all' tech ^^

[@toomanyaccounts]

@@RoballTV upscaling ship designs to fit various needs does occur in real life. if the ship hull design works and you can increase it by 50% to add more stuff then it would be done. The ship wrights already have exp building the design on a small scale so theoretically any issues by up scaling could be dealt with quicker and cheaper then doing a new hull design.

[@blcouch]

@@toomanyaccounts I can second that with some real world experience. My former employer built vessels on the same basic pattern in a 72’ and a 78’ length with the entire vessel scaled in such a way as to escape notice unless you were right next to one.

[@Chalor.]

The Bird's of Prey ships have always been a major "just go with it" kinda ship. Like they'll be made out to be these tough rather large ships, then often appearing 75% the mass of the pint-sized Defiant on DS9. It's as if all of those lit up windows are more like peepholes.

[@ReptilianLepton]

So, the moral of the story is that we were very lucky the probe didn't give a damn about blue whales.

[@razorfett147]

😆😆😆

[@SephirothRyu]

**Sad whale noises**

[@jurgmanx4644]

Would have been easier to beam the whales into a transporter buffer. Scotty has kept even himself in there a long time. Then time jumped to a point just before the alien probe arrived. Hiding out the whales so there is no paradox. Then releasing the whales at the appropriate time.

[@SephirothRyu]

@@jurgmanx4644 Does a Bird of Prey have that though? Its possible the klingon ship doesn't have the, er, finesse necessary in its transport systems to do what Scotty managed (by basically hacking the crap out of it, and at no small risk to his own person). All transporters have at least some degree of buffer, but they are usually intended for rather short term use. The Bird of Prey's transporter may simply not be able to do that. There is no telling if a whale with Transporter psychosis or any issues that trying to store them in a klingon buffer longer than advised would have been sufficient for the purposes of the mission.

[@PhoenixBird9000]

@@jurgmanx4644 If time travel screwed up the dilithium crystals I can imagine it wouldn't be too kind to the transporter buffers.

[@DrakeAurum]

Clearly the Klingons incorporated Pym particles into the design of the Bird of Prey. Excellent work as always, and a fascinating article.

[@DJS3]

Birds Of Prey were made the same way as a Tardis; they're bigger on the inside! 👍

[@BlueLightning12]

Don't forget the Enterprise J had this technology as well.

[@willowmillard]

Let’s not forget the tos shuttles, the Galileo prop wasn’t tall enough to stand in but the interior set was roughly the size of a baarge. Bit of dimensional engineering I reckon.

[@DJS3]

@@BlueLightning12 Sounds legit! 👍

[@DJS3]

@@willowmillard That also sounds legit! 👍

[@whowantstoknowido]

My thought exactly. Klingons obviously had access to Timelord tech!

[@coltrinculo703]

Rationalizing the scale of the bird of prey may be the greatest challenge this man has ever taken on.

[@SephirothRyu]

**Impressed whale noises**

[@MichaelBrown1977]

From "the big chill" “- Sam: Why is it what you just said strikes me as a massive rationalization? - Michael: Don't knock rationalization; where would we be without it? I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex. - Sam: Come on, nothing's more important that sex. - Michael: Yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?”

[@coltnichols4502]

"I've always wondered if you could fit humpback whales into a Klingon bird of prey"... Have you now?

[@bradhedgehog12]

Colt how bout Trying to Fit them Whales In the I.K.S T’Ong. I have them on Star Trek Timelines Game

[@RarebitFiends]

With the level of unnecessary detail and thought put into this, an order of magnitude more exacting than the production crew of the film cared to put in... I am actually fully prepared to believe that.

[@DogsRNice]

That sounds like it would be a line in the movie

[@RoballTV]

At this point, you've answered to many questions floating in the back of trek and sw fans minds that I've started to consider you as the authority. I'll believe your resolutions to these questions more than people directly involved in the productions of the movies and shows XD

[@DemocraticConfederalist33]

"I've always wondered if you could fit humpback whales into a Klingon bird of prey" EC Henry 2021

[@RoballTV]

There's a certain age bracket of Trek fans that have had that question haunting them since the 80's, not even joking XD

[@davidatkinson47]

Scotty was a miracle worker. The laws of physics don't apply when he's around. Hence insane deck numbers in the next movie. Bounty was halfway between a DeLorean (based on her previous captain) and a TARDIS. Just accept it. Edit: Like button hit on this video. Subscribed.

[@elicrowther7566]

Possible head cannon for the size discrepancy of the ship: the cloaking device was on the fritz causing an optical illusion that made the vessel appear larger or smaller than it should have been.

[@kelvyquayo]

That’s freaking brilliant

[@Typhis19]

I just gotta admit, I legitimately thought the answer would be a resounding no, no matter how you sliced it. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that it could be plausible.

[@maximthemagnificent]

You've now put about five times more thought into the plot of Start Trek IV than the script writers.

[@bubbadoom1837]

I wish the people that currently ran Star Trek, cared this much about Star Trek.

[@ToggerstheFroggers]

Trying to accurately deduce the size of a Klingon “Bird of Prey”? Sounds like a WHALE of a problem! I’ll see myself out now…

[@lanebowles8170]

UHHH! That tickled me something fierce! I'm still chuckling!

[@SephirothRyu]

**Unimpressed whale noises**

[@mattevans4377]

No no, come back! Otherwise I'm just left with people WHALEing because they think I'm weird for watching this video.

[@SephirothRyu]

**Even LESS impressed whale noises**

[@ScientistCat]

WATER you talkin about? I SEA amazing potential in you.

[@Jarsia]

Even before you said it, The idea of a sliding corridor was in my head. Makes sense to be able to make room for bigger cargo.

[@andjoa1975]

Maybe it's 65m, but the cloaking device malfunctions sometimes and makes it look bigger or smaller :)

[@robos3809]

That actually makes sense

[@PuddinTaim]

It'd be cool to see you redesign the K'Vort class cruiser so its windows, armaments, greeblies etc fit a ~350m scale but keep the essential similarities to the D12 and rationalize why these ships are built in the same overall shape and appearance.

[@PoorFoxface]

Oh, that would be perfect! He's done so much extreme forensic work to recreate blurry Star Wars background ships, so redesigning the K'Vort would be well within his abilities, and AFAIK no one's done it before either. Damn, I'd really like to see this now.

[@3Rayfire]

COSIGN! Henry, I need it in my life!

[@OllamhDrab]

One, I think good reason for keeping the appearances similar could just be for the pride of Klingon Captains: they can all say 'Bird of Prey.' :)

[@BlueSatoshi]

In Haynes' BoP Owner's Manual, it's said they share a base exterior, but the interiors are made to order, while the differing sizes are said to be different classes of BoP (e.g. B'rel vs K'vort).

[@DIEGhostfish]

If you've got enough EWAR to jam sensors having multiple otherwise identical ships of vastly different sizes could be great for sowing confusion, especially if they can can cloak outright. Is that B'Rel up close or a K'Vort far away?

[@vaos3712]

I think your explanation is right on target. I think the fact that they had Spock to talk to the whales through his mind melding also helped keep them calm while being cramped like sardines in a tight space. Could you imagine what would happen if one or both of them started to FREAK out?

[@brodriguez11000]

Maybe they were juvenile whales?

[@bobjoebo8933]

I still think they should have had dory to talk to the whales.

[@delappedesigns]

Incredible job rectifying Star Trek inconsistencies!

[@founder0171]

Trip: How can a ship be bigger on the inside than on the outside?” Malcolm: Could be a hologram.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Enhanced by Hammerspace magic.

[@bennettbt8864]

Don’t you know it’s compact subspace folds

[@richardthemagician8991]

NEEEERRRDDDD!!!! I totally watched this thing all the way through and will be sharing it with other enquiring minds.

[@PatMullen13]

Man, I think I've always been subconsciously aware that the bird of prey changed size, but never actively realized how much it does so. Thanks for making me realize why this ship is never the size I think it is in anything. Great video!

[@brodriguez11000]

Nice to know even in the future they have problems dealing with metric/imperial dimensions.

[@fightingcorsair7297]

Videos like this make me see I'm not alone. Calling out the discrepancies between the interior and exterior of science fiction ships is something I enjoy doing. Most of my friends, I think, can't stand when my rambling carry on too long. The Bird of Prey is by far my favourite of the Star Trek ships. Star Trek 4 is one of may favourite ST movies as well.

[@raenfox]

I'm just thinking, how do the whales breathe? It would be more logical if the cargo bay was only partially filled with water, leaving the blowhole free. Also, that's quite the substantial cargo bay for a ship that's geared towards combat. Yes, they were also used as raiders so they needed some cargo space, but still, it's huge. Especially considering it's likely the only useable space in that deck, the rest is probably filled with machinery.

[@daanvos194]

Ptobably held their breath in

[@76TomD]

When the BOP crashed, someone mentioned they had to get the whales out before they drown. Humpbacks are reported to be able to hold their breaths up to an hour but typically only do so for a few minutes between dives. So I guess the viewer must assume their trip aboard ship was to be within such a time frame

[@MrWhipple42]

I'm glad someone else wondered this same thing. The whales are clearly shown floating in a cargo bay that's completely filled with water.

[@Docktavion]

I came to ask the same question. My head-canon was some type of hyper oxygenated breathable water.

[@AmberAge]

I've just rewatched The Voyage Home the other day! Great timing xD

[@RetroAmateur1989]

I actually never thought about this. All I could think of, was nuclear wessels

[@hazelnoisette4539]

ST 4 is my fave ST film thanks for this!!

[@kadmii]

I'm more inclined to stick with the 74 meter length, since they went through the process of building the exterior to that scale. On the other hand, the smaller size seen in the matte painting is an issue of compositing, which places it in the category of honest mistake

[@jabdigital]

I'm so proud of you for making this. Now I'm going to watch everything else.

[@aaronheryford3507]

This is awesome explanation! I’m a nerd and I fricken love this stuff!

[@chadnine3432]

EC Henry asks the questions no one else thinks to ask!

[@brydon5721]

Having a configurable cargo bay makes sense, given that there will be times they may need to take onboard larger or bulkier items of freight for certain mission.

[@artkingofwholefoods74]

OMG… You just SOLVED a debate that has existed almost the majority of my life. Thank you Brother. 😆🙏👍🏼

[@JTPQuinn]

The lengths fans will go for continuity.

[@kazmark_gl8652]

This a thousand times. why are we so obsessed with perfect continuity?

[@gotindrachenhart]

THANK YOU, it's something that drove me nuts when I saw this as a teen back in the day.

[@GoranXII]

Can we just come out and say that consistency isn't a strong point for Star Trek?

[@KYle13265]

EC Henry coming in with the real questions. Side note: love your work on the Appalachia on STO it’s gorgeous.

[@Zeoinx69]

You should do a video on "Would everything seen in Halo 3's campaign missions taking place on the arc, used by the UNSC, actually FIT inside In Amber Clads ship hull. all the warthogs, scorpian tanks, mongeese, hornets, and Pelicians. Because if you ask me, That ship had some sort of pocket demension cargo bay thing.

[@jonathansullivan6706]

There is a channel on KZbin called Installation00 who does a lot of detailed breakdowns on Halo tech and lore. Among them is a video where he goes over Halo's problem with inconsistent size scaling, which you may find illuminating. I don't think he ever used Scorpions or other ground vehicles for scale, but he does do a good job of demonstrating the differences between the Canon sizes of ships and what we actually see in game.

[@UGNAvalon]

I was also going to mention 00, but specifically his analysis of the PoA’s Warthog Run compared to the actual size of the ship! xD

[@SephirothRyu]

@@UGNAvalon Eh, plenty have already looked at/mocked the PoA Warthog Run scaling.

[@PoorFoxface]

The In Amber Clad was in Halo 2; the frigate in Halo 3 was the Forward Unto Dawn. Regardless, an episode like this one on all the stuff the FUD carries in Halo 3 would be great.

[@Zeoinx69]

@@PoorFoxface Oh right, I dont know why I get those two ship names mixed up all the time

[@qetoun]

I love how Trek forces its fans to come up with creative solutions to otherwise humiliating problems.

[@verntigo]

I've heard of the Federation-Gallifrey Alliance, but this is the first I've heard of the Klingons being involved.

[@grantmobile8777]

Great video! I particularly like the adjustable cargo bay suggestion.

[@mortyjhones4068]

Note bad, there is just one problem.... during the part when ther converting the bay Sulu is shown flying a chopper and top loading the perspex sections into the cargo bay, with scotty and Ahura helping, they show that the cargo bay MUST have an direct acess to the top of the ship. and indeead the lighing of the cargo bay in the following cine shows it as having a hinged roof. It's also through this roof that the whales escape after the crash landing.

[@pills-]

Hold up, hold up... Just one problem at a time 🤣

[@DanakarEndeel]

Yep, I definitely recall the helicopter scene so the cargobay wasn't in the bottom of the ship but in the top. Back to the drawing board! 😜

[@keith6706]

The problem with that, of course, are those two big (warp nacelles?) at the top of the hull.

[@mortyjhones4068]

@@keith6706noThe two rounded sections eather side are supposted to be enginering and power, including Impulse and manuvering systems on one side and the warp core on the other. the top being covered with the heat exchangers of life support/cloaking device. the Bounty is tiny by Startreck standard's.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

This is a surprisingly astute for a film released in 86

[@JoeKawano]

The title and premise. Just LOL!

[@ГлебЧерепанов-з3ч]

These videos are just delightful, I really just can't put it any other way. I see EC Henry's video pop up, I go "Ho-ho! Jolly good, let's see what the good man has brought us today!". Jolly good video indeed.

[@justinslaughter2798]

Next question: how does the engine room fit in around the massive cargo bay?

[@ironwolf2244]

I just watched this movie for the first time in a long time. This video is much appreciated.

[@-Longinus-]

Great work, though personally I would just go with the larger size established in the whaling ship scene and the scene with the small space ship in the previous film. Those are scenes where the large size of the ship is directly observable and apparent, so that's what most viewers are gonna remember. Viewers are really not going to able to instantly comprehend what sort of size people standing on the small visible part of the ship implies. And it's not like 150m ship is actually large in Trek scale, it is still very small.

[@senselessbabbledotcom]

THANKYOU! This is something that has always bothered me for decades! I greatly appreciate this video!

[@I.Simmonds]

I thought the 120 meter Defiant vs the 170 meter Defiant was bad!

[@MoonjumperReviews]

Great video! I’ve never thought of the whales not fitting being a major issue. I’ve never tried comparing the size of people standing next to it, but seeing the BOP hovering over a whaling ship full of whale carcasses, and the BOP was bigger, was good enough for me. My issue with the Bird of Pray was that the bridge completely changed from Star Trek III to Star Trek IV. That took me out of the movie when I first watched it in the theater. I had to force myself to ignore it. LOL!

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Simplest solution is that the bridge in ST3 was an auxiliary control or gunnery room, since it seems smaller.

[@IAmEvilTree]

I have a little headcanon that all the different Klingon shipyards are divided, some along houses, others by engineering attitudes, and all have different opinions about how big a Bird of Prey should be. However all of these shipyards contribute to the wider Klingon navy leading to the different sized BoPs. I imagine debates between Klingon engineers about what the proper dimensions a BoP should be would get very heated; like the Trekkie arguments about this same subject but with more blood.

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

Simple, Klingon blueprints don't specify units

[@pills-]

That's... a lot of blood.

[@jenniferwilliams9612]

I love these analysis videos! You are good at scaling the ships and determining where things are. Keep it up!

[@Allegheny500]

Now you just have to figure out how Sulu lowered those plexiglass panels into place when there's no hatch that size on the upper hull. At least they used the transporter for the whales.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on Stuffing two Humpback Whales 🐋 into a Klingon Bird of Prey and how truly big in size that the ship would truly have to be for it to truly work indeed Sir!👌.

[@Restilia_ch]

2nd best Trek film (fight me) and a great analysis on the MOST inconsistent ship in the series. For the matte shot that gives the minimum size, it could be that they still had a ways to walk to get to the ramp, so it's bigger than that minimum, but maybe not by much. And to be crewed by 12 with such a large cargo bay (to accommodate all the live food Klingons prefer) that smaller scale makes sense.

[@toomanyaccounts]

scotty said he had to replace the klingon food tanks. Plus he said he would have to adjust the cargo bay to fit in the glass and make the whales be able to be transported. So he probably did adjust the layout.

[@Dee_Just_Dee]

@@toomanyaccounts Agreed. There's only so much room in the flow of the plot for technical dialogue... the takeaway should have to be that he outright _gutted_ the ship, as only a movie-class wizard like Scotty could do.

[@brucescott5387]

I kinda love that the 'modern' destroyer you used is an Iroquois class destroyer, the last of which was decommissioned in 2017. The ship in that clip is HMCS Algonquin, decommissioned in 2015, and was based out of Esquimalt harbor. Also the first ship I was posted to.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I think that star trek 4 just had to work with what it had. I really enjoyed the analysis here. The bird of prey can get a bit frustrating. There were the miniscule ones in Way of the Warrior where they look about 50m long, all the scaling you pointed out here, the "average" small one being 110, the Rotarran being scaled to 137, the Pagh looking about 230, and most of the cruiser types in next gen looking around 330-350. I do love the design, but I rather wish a bit of budget had been spent at the time to create unique ships.

[@roguetrooper5288]

Awesome video, thanks! 🔥🔥🔥

[@jwilder47]

The practical problem with the smaller design is that essentially turns the Bird of Prey into a freighter. Why would a ship that is effectively a frigate need a cargo bay that takes up nearly a third of its volume?

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

as someone else mentioned, Klingons don't eat jerky. They need room for animals and even more room for fodder

[@michellehanson984]

That's where the spoils of war go

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

Thank you so much for this. All my life I instinctively felt that it could in fact have worked with, in the worst case, just a little bit of upscaling...but by "worked" I mean ONLY if there were one whale on either side of the corridor. I always dismissed the two whales in one tank depiction as a throw-away scene intended to make sure the audience saw that they were both happily aboard the ship. But in my mind there will always be one on each side, especially now. This was amazing.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

"just isn't a very big ship" - depends on which shot you cherry-pick - it's several hundred meters long when it's facing off against the whaling ship, for example. But then it's about 40 feet long in total, in Star Trek 3 when facing off against the Enterprise. In ST4, the bulbous nose at the front is both large enough for 3 entire decks and a bridge, and it's also too small to fit 5 humans in, when they escape in the sinking scene. Can it fit two humpback whales in it? Yes, if the story requires it.

[@brodriguez11000]

Inflatable ship.

[@johnmiic]

All throughout the movie series continuity & scale was thrown out the window. The obvious answer always has been that whatever works better for the story is the way they will go. But your videos are fantastic. Keep making them!

[@NomadShadow1]

In my head canon the BoP has a shrink ray in addition to the cloaking device which is why the dang things are always a different size every time you look at them

[@Manomet84]

Not a Star Trek fan, but loved this video! Fun, well researched and produced, and mixes in some creative license to harmonize these apparent inaccuracies within the lore. Always love your projects and this one's no different, keep it up!

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

I had to adjust my spaceship's scale by 10% as some scenes would not fit the characters like the escape hatch room. It's at that point that I realize the importance to place a character in all the rooms for scale.

[@littlekong7685]

I draw layouts of ship deck plans for fun (my own design's), and I learned pretty quickly that you need that reference scale, some of my older exterior stuff jut does not fit if I try to make people fit inside properly.

[@robertd1965]

Absolutely love this video. Great analysis with awesome visuals and evidence for the scale of the ship (that the movies literally can't seem to keep straight.).

[@erictaylor5462]

6:00 It would be fairly easy to depict both whales at the same time, even if they are carried as you depicted. Establish the divider as a hallway and shoot down the hall. You could even place microphones and speakers so the whales could sing to each other. And we even established that the whales were intelligent enough to understand what was going on because Spock had communicated their plans and confirmed the whales would cooperate with that plan. Frankly, if I had been one of the whales, I'm not so sure I would be so willing to cooperate. If it had been me I would have been like, "Let me get this straight. Your kind (assuming the whales could not tell a Vulcan from a human) hunted my kind to extinction. Now a problem that had come to check on us is killing all the humans on Earth. You want to take us into the future, where our child will have no hope at all of finding a mate who is not the child's sibling, and you want us to stop the probe killing all the humans? "Tell you what, how about you fuck off and leave us alone. "By the way, you remember that space record you guys had a sign to, then you launched it into interstellar space 9 years ago? Yea, of course we knew all about that! Well, that wasn't just random whale song, it was a cry for help, and should that help arrive too late to save us, we asked that whoever finds the message should avenge us. "So, no. We have no wish to help you, stupid monkeys."

[@BaseStation]

Love this. I'd love it if you'd take on the Millennium Falcon. Try to make it's interior fit with a 3D model.

[@NateThe_Great24]

This video feels like it _should_ be a sh*tpost, but I'm certain the topic was taken 100% seriously.

[@michaelmoses8745]

Welcome to the EC henry channel.

[@TKnightcrawler]

I liked the video, but those whales seem like they'd be super-duper uncomfortable in anything but the 150m version.

[@CapinCooke]

Captain. There be whales here! 🐳 🐋

[@enprisezzz]

Great info! Thank you! Been wondering about this for decades now.

[@angryox3102]

EC Henry notification? Never clicked so fast.

[@elmartillo7931]

You know the best part about this movie? When it came out none of us knit picked every detail, we just enjoyed the film

[@McGowanForge]

How big is the bird of prey? It's about plot point x by plot point y Give or take a few inches

[@surge21xx]

It's nice to see, whether deliberate or not, the film did have the potential to make it work with that ship, so it is believable even if there's inconsistencies.

[@starsilverinfinity]

Hey EC Henry - I was browsing your older videos and rewatched the Nebulon-B Imperial Touch up, and then I realized: The Nebulon-C is in the same situation as our fictional Nebulons, basically shunted to the salvage yards and being fielded after the fact, and looking like it too So what would the Nebulon-C look like before they began stripping it and had to shoddily put it back together?

[@technicist6605]

I love this as the Voyage Home is my all time favourite star trek movie!

[@lexibyday9504]

dont you wish you could magically fix all the inconsistencies in the franchise. Of course that would completeely erase a lot of the new stuff but no one would miss it that much.

[@larnregis]

Apart from the Bird of Preys scale, a much bigger issue is, that the whales would drown. There is no air above the tank when they show them in the tank. It is a sealed tank 100% full of water, also because both whales were beamed aboard when they were fully submerged. Anyway, thanks for this great video and the nicely done animations and 3d models.

[@balrighty3523]

We know that the transparent material of choice in the 23rd century is transparent aluminum and we know that they didn't have that material available in 1986. So we know Scotty had to do some jiggering to configure the cargo bay to accept panes of glass six inches thick when they would normally take one inch thick panes. So I fully buy the notion of the middle corridor being moved to one side off-camera. How, though, did the panels get installed in a cargo bay at the bottom of the ship when we clearly see Sulu lowering them by helicopter into the top? Maybe the upper deck(s) had the machine shop necessary to cut the glass to its final dimensions/specifications...

[@atlass8331]

Amazing work. So well done.

[@athane8358]

The scaling was clearly a battle between design department and cinematography. Like how the JJ Abrams Enterprise is visually 370m but Internally is 700m. That or the Klingons have Time Lord Technology.

[@mister-v-3086]

Didn't you know?? Klingon birds of prey are made with Expandium alloyed with Collapsium. You push the right button and the ship is as large or small as you need it -- for now. Props to Sulu for finding the right button!

[@pixelkatten]

I'm not convinced that you have the scaling right when you look at the "crash and sink" scene. As you say, the underbite is missing, but what if the BoP has yet another scale in this scene and the underbite has already sunk beneath the surface?

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

Exactly my thoughts

[@erubianwarlord8208]

or the ship is upsidedown explains a few things such as the whale's exiting

[@colormedubious4747]

I, too, have thought long and deeply about this scaling issue. I resolved it by suspending my disbelief and simply enjoying the heck out of the most fun of all Star Trek movies!

[@Neilhammond64]

Sees all the inconsistincies in the Bird of Prey. Turns to the Turbolift section on the Discovery. Baby, I'm so sorry!

[@blammers]

It only makes sense that a starship would have a rollercoaster in it.

[@jonathansullivan6706]

I think that there's a point at which there's no point trying to make sense of it. Star Trek Discovery crossed that threshold long before the turbolifts were seen.

[@MissionReloadedGaming]

As someone who took three days to dive into this very same thing to build this ship in various games like starmade to starship evo and avorion....I came to almost the same conclusion you did about the 65 meters. Thank you for coming through with an entirely different angle of attack with the whales. I didn't even think to use then as a consistency piece.

[@purplepothos5794]

Now I'm curious how many whales could have fit into Cetacean Ops on the D.

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I love nerding over ST like that :). Good job mate!