Su-33 Flanker-D Supermaneuverability Dogfight Vs F/A-18C Hornet | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Check out the Merch Store: teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store Link to Longshot's Channel: kzbin.info/door/szke4C7G1THhlh0puHWZ1g Had some good fun making this video, big thank you to longshot for helping out with this video, who do you guys think got it right when it comes to Supermaneuverability? the Russians or the Americans? Supermaneuverability has no place in modern air combat or its useful from time to time?

[@hkguitar1984]

These videos just keep getting better and better. Thank You

[@hectorarcia4853]

Su-30mk2 Venezuela 🇻🇪 vs F-39 gripen Brasil 🇧🇷

[@Voilento]

Depends if the new stealth figthers does that you cant bvr, or at least not at a great range, then the Supermaneuverability of russian planes gives them an option, that nato pilots dont have....... so yeah i think the russians have made a good choice

[@krissobieski4341]

Reckless speculation on my part but I think the reason Soviets went with Supermaneuverability because the Soviet air force (VVS) had close to 2000 fighter jet (in 1980s), against expensive F-15s they would take a one-to-one exchange ratio gladly. Supermaneuverability allows you to score kills that an enemy that does not train with SM aircraft would have a hard time anticipating...if it leaves the individual pilots vulnerable afterwards, that is just taking one for the team.

[@AbyNeon]

When are You gonna stop torturing Longshot?! :D You guys both rock big time!!!

[@jaydoh9439]

I like the mini documentary at the beginning, do more of tht. We like that. We approve.

[@bri-manhunter2654]

Yes!!

[@gypsykingg]

Not true

[@peterquackenbush2552]

I fully agree, I love informative sections, that's the main reason I watch this channel

[@joiethemadscientist5675]

I agree.

[@tterrag1987]

DID diagnoses?

[@zolikoff]

AIM-9X: *teleports behind you* "Nothing personal, kid."

[@KirShizzle]

Omae wa mou shindeiru desu...

[@scottyfox6376]

Stealth Blurter Shot (SBS) DARPA Tech ?

[@johnhermann7498]

Maybe annular blast warheads are a thing? ;)

[@KirShizzle]

@@johnhermann7498 the problem is the damage to the Sukhoi was on the far end of the aircraft, away from where the prox fuze may have detonated. Definitely looks like a glitch.

[@brazilianman4305]

He turns way too early

[@LongShotChannel]

Ohh you will pay for that disrespectful reaction in the first round.

[@avi8aviate]

I wonder how you felt about the teleporting AIM-9X.

[@dorkismcshane3706]

@LongShot nice to see you come with the shits.

[@gregbagel791]

I talked to a guy whose dad was a Top Gun pilot, and asked him to ask his about his dad's thoughts on supermaneuvrability vs BVR. his dad's answer was short and very insightful. "In a jet fighter beyond visual range becomes visual range pretty quick"

[@VengeanceSinX]

So thats why SM is still needed...

[@Joshua-by4dc]

​@@VengeanceSinX yes, as a plan B, that's why the f22 have supermaneuvrability either

[@Aem2512]

@@Joshua-by4dcNot so super as Su-57 but yes it has better manueverability than other usa jets

[@embeddd]

@@Aem2512 yes, the f22 does have super-maneuverability

[@lobster838]

Russia: Supermanuverable aircraft America: Warp-capable missiles

[@ryanvandoren1519]

Aim 9: Ludicrous speed, GO!

[@SunriseLAW]

Russia: if we are invaded by USA we will need to 'dogfight'. America: stealth is good for invasions.

[@bibinthomas5282]

@@SunriseLAW stealth killers they have..

[@joeclaridy]

@@bibinthomas5282 supposedly but still probable

[@h8GW]

@SunriseLAW America: "Hey broskis, we heard you like supermaneuverability so we put some supermaneuverability in our stealth."

[@thirdimpact172]

That AIM-9X had some Belkan tech in it for sure

[@sdaiopelix6071]

belkan witchcraft

[@vicemafia23]

Mr.X DNA embedded.

[@joeclaridy]

Didn't they lose back to back wars?

[@th0rn3]

@@joeclaridy it doesn’t matter how good your tech is when the other side has demigods for pilots

[@Galm02]

@@th0rn3 😂

[@kyleblecha1]

I have never played DCS but can't get enough of these videos. The way GS breaks things down and his videos have cinematic elements as well is great.

[@nemanjarankovic8883]

Play it, you won' regret a second spent there.

[@badgermcbadger1968]

@@nemanjarankovic8883 you won't but your wallet will

[@reggiesterling9394]

I'm with kerath I'm a console player since Nintendo's first system and have only played one PC game which was ever quest but this really makes me want to get into this game but I'm wondering how much it costs to get into it with a decent setup.Anyone have a idea how much it would be roughly thanks

[@yeetusyourmeetus]

@@AYYEPIC you can get away without buying a proper TrackIR setup if you just have a webcam and opentrack, works well enough for free

[@AceMadefake]

⁠​⁠@@reggiesterling9394I use a $40 logitech flight stick, a headset and a keyboard. They're < $200. Get 16 gb of ram and i7 and gtx 1660 and that would be enough

[@Le_Church]

This cloud update still blow my mind on how it changes how the world feels. Things seem MUCH higher than they used to. NOYCE.

[@jizburg]

Its soo much nicer.

[@hindd_05]

"the jam is wezed" GS, in an alternate timeline

[@kilianortmann9979]

Jammed ... Raspberry. There's only one man ... who would dare give me the raspberry! GS!

[@FoxWithTheAngels]

@@kilianortmann9979 THE SPACEBALLS

[@bluecaptainIT]

@@kilianortmann9979 *bumps into TAC-VIEW camera*

[@sander9683]

The US government watching the AIM9 teleport: Write that down! Write that down!

[@joeclaridy]

But they're the creators of the AIM-9X

[@hurricaneace143]

@@joeclaridy true. But that was the first "active" use of the 9x warpdrive😂

[@fennoman9241]

@@joeclaridy 🤓well actually US Government didnt create AIM-9, a private company named Raytheon did.

[@cardinalmendoza3449]

GS: "the flight path is a lil smoother on the 9X" meanwhile 9X: *teleports*

[@blessthismessss]

9:35 when Gaijin programs ur missile

[@fiery_ginger7530]

Once got hit by r60 from mig 21 8km away while I was mach 1

[@blessthismessss]

@@fiery_ginger7530 lmao what altitude cuz R-60s have a random huge range increase above 5000m altitude

[@jacobblair6181]

Bro for real!

[@emfournet]

That Sully inlay had me rolling. Unexpected, perfect, beautiful.

[@giannizen3775]

9:36 ED be like: guys, how do you like our brand new AIM9-T(eleport)?

[@homeboyactual]

more like AIM-9XT

[@sloppy-1-1]

@@homeboyactual AIM-9xD

[@wowfail6835]

@@sloppy-1-1 i hate ur comment lmaooo

[@Blue_Pumpkin]

@@sloppy-1-1 😍

[@N75911_]

Now it does what the bullshit R-27 does

[@notmetal0-130]

GS: trolling laugh in first round Longshot in round 3 and 4 : How does that feel. Huh!

[@SimplyHero]

Nathan Doan comedy reference?

[@LongShotChannel]

I still feel he need more payback for that reaction in round 1

[@cardinalmendoza3449]

Longshot: oh yeah? *whips out a teleporting missle*

[@LIKWID]

That first sequence was absolutely awesome, the information at the start of these videos really helps to give you a real world perspective on the aircraft itself then seeing just how well that works out in DCS, great stuff as always dude!

[@naimishambasana7494]

Finally, some love towards SU-33.

[@ReelRai]

Say what you will about the Sukohis, but goddamn I think its the prettiest plane out there

[@WildWestRaider]

That's the MiG-29 for me. Thunderbolt is a close second, because she's so ugly it's beautiful lol

[@nitonono4143]

second only to the Tomcat

[@DrittAdrAtta]

@@nitonono4143 I'd say second to none - just used some of the Tomcat's coolest features and took them to the next level.

[@johnniess7914]

@@nitonono4143 I still have the newspaper clipping from when they announced the retirement 🥺 best bird ever

[@90enemies]

@@nitonono4143 Ngl Tomcat is pretty sexy atleast sexier than F-15/F-18

[@seniorspaz8754]

9:36 - SRAAMs in WT be like:

[@Georgi_Drumev]

i see there is suffer-buddy here too

[@m1a1abrams3]

wallets in wt be like:

[@Thunderkorn]

Ahhh so accurate

[@Nope_617]

not if you have the hunter

[@boiiifuaintcare8629]

@@Nope_617 can u dodge sraams with the Starfighter doe?

[@TrangleC]

I'm firmly in the "skeptical about super maneuverability"-camp. There are reasons for why less maneuverable but faster Energy and Boom and Zoom Fighters outclassed and replaced maneuverable Turn Fighters (like the Zero) in WW2 and it seems those rules still apply today. The Eurofighter has the ability to engage targets "over the shoulder", meaning it can shoot targets behind itself, even when flying away from them. The IRIS-T missile and the full surround helmet lock on system are specifically designed for that. Surely other fighters will get that ability too soon and that will make extremely tight turn fights even less likely and less survivable. Bleeding off all your energy for some pointless turn and making yourself a sitting duck for a missile, while the enemy just keeps flying full speed and shoots you "over the shoulder" will surely not be a winning tactic.

[@ylstorage7085]

spitfire had to cut its wingtips (sacrificing speed) just to roll a bit faster.

[@dixievfd55]

Even in WWI. There's a reason why Germany ditched the Fokker DR.1 and why France ditched their Nieuports and adopted the Spad.

[@danielchoritz1903]

yeah believe so to, super maneuverability should be a missile feature, not for the aircraft.

[@g3arjammer837]

Day 7 of asking GS for a night battle with the new effects

[@dragonfire2371]

Gl

[@xero5101]

I like your little history talks... it's really enjoyable and I've learned a lot!

[@tupahutuokoneiswife3972]

That 9x issue, could not have happened to a better person! We learn way much more when you're puzzled! Much Love GS! and it was BS in my opinion!😁

[@rogerhinman5427]

I thought it was a desynch issue until the tachview. It must be Longshot's new "Spicy 9X" which becomes available only after getting gunned down on the first turn.

[@subjectc7505]

Honestly supermaneverability is more a choice then a requirement. It depends on the abilities and what you have created, your fighter to go against. I had experience with that in ksp with my fighters, most of my fighters was able to achieve supermaneverability but quickly lose air speed or put itself into a uncontrollable stall. With and without canards. But on one of my single engine fighters, canards improved it's turn radius and angle of attack at low speeds.

[@brendongraham3821]

The slowing down was killer. Started noticing it in round 2 but you held out for the win

[@NIR_Prizmo]

Im suprised how well the F/A-18C did in a dogfight.

[@JUFFAIR101]

How would the F/A-18E block 3 do against the Su-35?

[@airshark2764]

@@JUFFAIR101 not much

[@SPINERbg]

The intro alone is so valuable, let alone the whole video! Thank you!

[@alexandern4403]

I guess the idea behind supermaneuverability is to use it like how you're supposed to use Nitro in racing games. You're supposed to apply it cleverly at exactly the right time to gain a lethal advantage over your opponent but also as a back up system to get you out of trouble if you mess up, much like ABS on a car. Similarly though, you shouldn't rely on it. So if you gain the skill to know when and how to apply it, you could become invulnerable. Assuming you have NATO missiles though, because those Russian Air to airs are bad. And that's kinda surprising because Russians are know to be able to build missiles well.

[@nyafu_uwu]

honestly archers are pretty scary

[@luisito6314]

Round 1 was awesome you spread it on like icing on a cake lol

[@Kevin_Patrick001]

The same people who said super maneuverability is useless are the same ones that removed the gun from the F-4 by saying it was useless as well.

[@nitonono4143]

and they were right, the only thing that happened was the early missiles where buggy in its early days. can you recall any gun kills since vietnam? and even missiles are nearing the end of its life, as laser becomes more potent and efficient its just a matter of time when will be the last missile will be carried by a jet.

[@Kevin_Patrick001]

@@nitonono4143 There have been NO wars since Vietnam in which there was an opponent that had equivalency compared to Vietnam so your comparison is moot. Just because its not used significantly doesnt mean its obsolete. Nuclear weapons are very useful as a deterrence and just because they havnt been used since WW2 does not mean they have no value.

[@Christhebearable]

Id love to see you do a more traditional merge and save the supermaneuverable tricks for a spot in the fight somewhere when your opponent cant predict when it will come.

[@plumberjoe80]

Russia : “Hey! Let’s build a super awesome jet to use with our carrier.” Admiral Kuznetsov: “🔥🔥🔥🔥”

[@MrRoninGT]

Russia : “Hey! Let’s build a hypersonic weapons.” CSG: "🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥"

[@kchrys2750]

I love the specs and story part you give in the beggining! So nice and informing. Great video as always!!

[@kevinrusch3627]

Here's a case where supermaneuverability would be very useful - when you're in an guns fight, clearly your HUD says your plane's computer knows where the enemy is. It'd be useful if you could, for instance, leave the flight envelope by 5 degrees for 1/4 second for a burst, then return to regular flight.

[@tmytyson]

I think the best way to test supermaneuverability would be a Red-vs-Red fight of two identical supermaneuverable aircraft (e.g. Su33 vs 33) to eliminate differences in aircraft/weapon performance. You might also want to test different start conditions/loadouts (e.g. Fox3 only or 2v2) to replicate more likely scenarios. Food for thought if you want to revisit in the future!

[@davidburke4360]

The 9X I believe has a proximity detination so it's not a hit to kill weapon so if it senses it's close it will detonate

[@megascience445]

This is one of those videos where I really would've liked to hear the live-chat between you guys when playing, especially with the teleporting 9X!

[@ericandi]

The 9X must have been upgraded to a hyper sonic missile. It got going too fast for the naked eye. ;)

[@Robert53area]

To be fair the su 33 is a much heavier aircraft too, be like using an f14 vs a hornet. Do see the disadvantage your talking about but there was the right time and place where the abilities do come into good play. You also faught multiple rounds so long shot had time to learn what to do right and what went wrong. If youll were to do only one round, one life you took the easy advantage early. Was a great fight you can see the advantages and disadvantages clearly with multiple play through.

[@dominicdiclemente8877]

Hey GS, not sure if you have already done this but do you have a simple Dog fighting series ? For example lets take a 1 turn fight. You can explain how you get your best turning performance at X speed for an F/A-18, how do I best go about getting to that speed ? What things to look for when you are win/losing the fight. How to bail when losing a 1 turn fight. Something for those of us that have no idea how to even do the basics of dog fighting.

[@kelly2631]

Supermaneuvrability would be great for when the two engaging aircraft are so stealthy that a close-range battle is the only option that's left.

[@crazedpilot1]

Feeling impatient for the kill? Unsure if the missile will hit? Bummed that you can't edit the missile yourself now the the files are locked? Introducing the all new AIM-9X II brought to you by Eagle Dynamics. Now you can get a kill in milliseconds thanks to a new teleporting capability. Better yet, it has a 99% chance of appearing right behind the bandit when they least expect it! Available now for $19.99

[@lars9966]

insane upgrades on the 9x :O showing a fake location for the naked eye, amazing!

[@paulbrooks4395]

That was a very interesting intro, I learned some things. Also, your historical presentation and “talk only” videos are good stuff. I hope we can get some updated Red missiles, even if they are based on speculation or general weapon parameters. It’s interesting to note that the BVR design of jets is often offset by the ROE which have historically required visual ID. Even in a shooting war like DS, we had to be careful, as a friendly with broken IFF or in EMCON (or civilian aircraft with no IFF) looks just like a bandit that doesn’t return an IFF query. IRL there’s even more danger in a shooting war as ambiguity is much greater than games can present. This issue is further exacerbated by extreme range weapons, where a missile could feasibly shoot down something outside of the AO in the case of a miss / lost link / no track / having to go evasive. All that is to say that there’s a real benefit to being highly capable in visual range, particularly if the other side has to close to visual to get a positive ID. I still think the value of ultra maneuverability has diminished over time, in light of stealth and HOBS missiles, where the real value is getting a kill in EMCON without ever being seen.

[@manuelroblesduran5441]

Damn! All these stuff before the air combat, make me feel like watching Discovery Channel... awesome intro, GS!

[@CH3TN1K313]

How I understand it, the Russians are taught, is to use it as an ace up their sleeve, for emergency use, definitely not to depend on it, and only to get out of situations that would be impossible otherwise. Examples include jinks, as well as snap shots to surprise targets, such as when a stealth aircraft sneaks up with both being usspotted by their radars, and then picking up the enemy using IR in close proximity.

[@paristo]

Considering that earlier AIM-9 series before X should have 5 second 20G arming delay for a fuzes, they don't as they will blow anything inside about that 2.5 km range that it takes to accelerate. That is why you go for guns at couple km range as your AIM-9 can't deal the engagement. AIM-9X if having 1600 ft (500m) fuzing range, it becomes then to same class as R-60 was with 300 meters fuzing (900 ft).

[@modernmedicine2562]

Nice little snippet on the mkm..keep up the good work man!

[@DrDrew-mw2gy]

"I think the 9X has some teleportation technology that was previously classified" (Lost it!)

[@xaxac85]

LMAO Round 3 was a War Thunder moment with an invisible missile

[@ionator2000ist]

The big thing with russian super manueverability is based on the fact that USSR expected to be in such a degraded EW fight that they would have to be in close and wanted to win off the merge. Hence why they had high off boresight missile first and aircraft that could get high AOAs

[@Jahanbakht1977]

Just loved your excellent initial description plus the dogfight and your sense of humor and jokes as always!!!

[@Jacksteri]

Were you using the Special Afterburner mode of SU-33 during those matches? It is used in carrier take offs but sure helps in dogfights and BVR too as it gives you Double the thrust. For example SU-33 can reach Mach 1.7 in less than 3 mins. SU-27 can do the same in 5 mins.

[@scottriddell7893]

Re WEZ. Though your line of sight is 1000 ft the curved tragectory of the 9x is much longer. 3/4 around the turn the 9x is going 500kts+ and the Su is 160kts (t=15:01). Effectively a stationary target.

[@pocketpunch9920]

I generally tend to use the high AoA button as a way to pull the target into the HUD for a lower aspect fox2. It's for those moments you know you can splash the bandit if you can magically whip the nose around. I wouldn't use it at the start of the engagement but rather when the opponent starts getting mental attrition least expects it.

[@Phynix_Gaming]

I learnt so much about super maneuverability and why US didn't adopt it while Russia did. Excellent info and docu like intro.

[@magiscichoam]

An excellent analysis of the pros and cons of “thrust vectoring” and “super maneuverability”. Your “victory laughs” are super classic and so hilariously disrespectful to your less than capable adversary aircraft. Bravo!

[@cliffordmanono248]

I wonder what plan Long Shot had in exposing himself like that, not even three seconds into the merge. Nonetheless from Growling's throaty laugh, he must have been in disbelief at the gift Long Shot had presented him with and did not hesitate to take it.

[@IIISentorIII]

Obviously the AIM-9X did use Supermaneuverability at one point itself ^^

[@aleksibovellan9821]

That first round was so disrespectful 🤣🤣 Usually after such a move the F-22 appears.

[@andreasplosky8516]

The SU-33 is one of the best looking modern fighter jets ever. I have always loved the Hornet too.

[@fraer111]

The F-18 has always lower speed than the Su-33 without any supermaneuverability, but it doesn't matter, it turns perfectly well at M=0.22.

[@nomar5spaulding]

Looks like he got your Bashar in they let round. I guess the Su-33 shares that aspect in common with the MiG 29. No Bashar, no flying.

[@michaelwestmoreland2530]

I have never heard a more appropriate "Pppfffffff hahahahahah" in my life than hearing an experienced pilot seeing first hand what basically ignoring half the BFM rules he ever learned looks like.

[@ek4676]

Definitely my favorite FC3 module. And one of my top favorites in general next to the Hornet.

[@eidoloclast6521]

Is there any scenario in which you hold onto your energy in the first turn and then use the supermaneuverability later?

[@ValentineC137]

13:28 "my energy state is way too low" *_is at the same speed as the 18C, and is above him._*

[@deadliftalot]

Amazing piloting skills from GS , Amazing content

[@hbladeh]

The Su-33 may have more overall lift than the 27, however it's much heavier. Engines are upgraded, but still nowhere near the T2W ratio of the 27. Same supermaneuverability features are present in the 27 as well, so you would stand a bigger chance with that. Supermaneuverability without thrust vectoring is not much use tbh...

[@josephbishop3231]

Caught me first r60 in the face in a training mission yesterday, but it felt so normal after watching this channel for a year and a half

[@CanadianDad73]

My 10 year old and I keep watching your videos and then dog fighting on the weekend. He's beating me more that I am him now... and he's using all your lingo!

[@dannycolwell8028]

I think I can put guns on him “PPPPPPFFFFFFTTHHHHHHPPPHHH” Very accurate rendition of chain gun sounds, colorized, 1974

[@CanisDirusPrime]

I worked with 9-Xs in the USAF. They are designed to basically U-Turn with thrust vectoring. From what I know, that's a good kill.

[@h8GW]

GS: "That 9X's WEZ should've been jammed." 9X: "Imma just explode early, then."

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Just found your channel and I’m hooked. These videos are outrageous. A great look into the world of professional aviation.

[@alexeyaviator8600]

Second 9x was improved a lot) Interesting analysys on tactics advantages and disadvantages.

[@stormculture]

I'm thinking the "annular blast frag" is what got you - if its close enough to trigger the proximity fuse, there's a chance the fragments will still kill the target even if the detonation is >100 feet. Maybe that "chance" of fragments hitting at a longer range is a new aspect of the model.

[@Vintage_USA_Tech]

It looks like the computer scored it as a proximity hit I would as measure the distance of the missile to the plane just before detonation but even still you would think it would have been reduced damage.... that was a neat one to see

[@infitotem2142]

This jet is was my favorite growing up. I had a toy of it that I remember fondly. Good hunting pilot

[@lad4694]

Where can I find videos on FIGHTER JET technology like the canards and what makes one jet more maneuverable than another? Just like in this video

[@bigbitehood1353]

2:40 Which is pretty impressive

[@VivecsTDawg]

realistically, and even on a confrontational basis in game having that ability to be supermaneuverable can give you that one opportunity to land a potential shot when you otherwise wouldn't be able to. That being said, that's if you can get past BVR with modern jets and into a close encounter.

[@miscu2542]

I've finally bought the FC3 pack, and the su-33 has always been one of my favourite aircraft. It is astonishing! Very manoeuvrable and another planet from the Su-25T I flew before... can't wait to deep into A2A combats ;)

[@johnniess7914]

Lmk if u need a wingman 😎

[@spaceonisorceress4406]

Dang Belkans with their teleporting missile technology

[@AriefMamoerRiawan]

This is why the AIM-9X is just superior, it adds teleport to its ability.

[@joshuat20k]

I literally was crying laughing at the missile that hit you at 9:48!

[@nopp3810]

9:38 that’s belkan technology at its finest

[@jerrodcorey25]

9:47 SERIOUSLY WTF Agent Smith has entered the Matrix. Glitch Activated

[@lihisluikku]

The Russian supermaneuverability jets are kinda cool. I really doubt they will be ever holding a candle to NATO in BVR, which is like pretty much the bread and butter of air to air combat. But if they do ever get close, the Russian pilots that have half the training hours of NATO pilots, have some ace in their sleeves. I bet they were planning to just throw dozens of their fighters at NATO planes, some might get shot down BVR, but some would make it to a distance where they get to try that first turn offensive move. And that would truly be the test of the NATO pilots. Could they survive, or lose to the cheesy one trick pony tactic.

[@viktor_v-ughnda_vaudville_476]

Not much real estate in the cockpit where the control panels are situated but lots of visibility outside of that area doesn’t give the pilot much room to look at his panels and switches

[@jayceotter]

I totally dig it when you explain real life history and capabilities of the aircraft and their weapons.

[@MetaliCanuck]

First pass, imagine a F18 pulling a BLIND pull on merge. He would've loss his wings that day in my time and never got them back.

[@wowfail6835]

Hey GS, you must not have heard about the 400-ft proximity fuse and the 600 lbs warhead in the Aim-9X! /s

[@ArsenicShooter]

Very interesting analysis ! Great job ! Really appreciate.

[@flanker909]

Nice tacview background music. Very calming. That weird x9 could have been proximity fuse going off.

[@tr1sh2tom]

I do think you got screwed on the teleporting 9x, but I think it's karma from the first gunz kill.... probably an undocumented feature in the new 2.7.

[@TheEpicPancake]

Definitely feel it has use, just in moderation. Obviously once the opponent has a plan to dodge the instaturn, it's better to do a normal merge and use it to nab some last stand fire solutions. Thankfully it's toggleable.

[@Pincer88]

@Grwoling Sidewinder: Just out of interest: thrust vectoring does seem to work in the F-22 in DCS, doesn't it? At least in WVR. Or do you not use thrust vectoring in a close in engagement? (I'm not sure if you do ) My question then is: why would it not work for the SU-30/33/35? Is that a matter of thrust:weight ratio that enables tje F-22 to regain speed very rapidly where the Su's struggle to do so? Or does that have to with the modelling of the aircraft (or both)?

[@Mike_Romeo]

The F-22 doesnt have thrustvectoring either. Allmost every mod use a SFM (Standard flight model) which is not cable of simulating thrustvectoring. Instead all mods have a UFO flightmodel to simulate thrust vectoring.