Suburban Office Parks Are Terrible & We Should Stop Building Them

[@Cyrus992]

The mass separation of office and retail is the worst land use aspect when it comes large scale zoning in newer areas. Why this process? Codes?

[@andrewzheng4038]

Seriously, like why? What lifeless people woke up in the morning so many decades ago and decided “thou shalt not have convenient places to grab lunch”, or “no, there will be no places for you to grab a little gift for your spouse on the way home”

[@NelsonBrown]

​@@andrewzheng4038 I suspect a lot of it was racism. Living in a city in NA means tolerance for a lot of diversity.

[@kino_cinante]

It ends up being a subsidy for business because fewer amenities means lower rent for the business and lower quality of life for employees.

[@jamalgibson8139]

​@@andrewzheng4038 You can attribute much of this to Le Corbusier. I'm not sure if he came up with the concept of separating land use by type, but he certainly pushed it quite hard. Of course, the car companies needed no convincing to roll with this idea, since it basically guaranteed their products.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Just follow the money: compared to downtown development, suburban land is usually cheaper, low rise suburban buildings usually cost less to build, and the resulting property taxes are lower due to lower property values. What’s more almost all of the trade off costs-extra infrastructure, cars and gas, commuting time-are paid by other people, not the business itself. When you add it all up, the financial incentives are pretty obviously skewed in favor of the suburban development.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

It's ironic that one of the biggest reasons that cities were seen to be in decline was because of the excess and inefficiency of cars, and the "solution" is car-centric hellholes.

[@mickeygraeme2201]

Also because for most people most of the time it is better.

[@callmeswivelhips8229]

Welcome to the Land of Corporate Interests, I'm sure you'll enjoy our wide selection of cog-spaces...I mean neighborhoods! Freudian slip!

[@Rahshu]

Damn, did this hit home! When you can't afford to drive, getting a job becomes *SO* much harder! It's ironic that so many high-paying jobs are in Downtown as those employees can afford a car while so many low-wage jobs are in inaccessible suburbia with poor or non-existent public transport. It's ass-backwards! Ugh...

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Cars do not represent freedom, they represent financial subjugation. Driving is for the poor, and only the rich can afford to walk to work.

[@IncognitoSprax]

Depends on where you live as that isn't always true. I'm in NJ so you don't have to really drive in most of our urban areas. So downtown's are pretty accessible...the outer areas however are not

[@Basta11]

I'm not against suburban office parks or single family home suburbs. There will always be those, and some people do like them. I'm against making nothing else available or making them prohibitively expensive for most people. Just allow more choice that is all.

[@AL5520]

No one suggests making single family home illegal but if someone likes it and want's to live in one he must understand that less density means higher costs and he'll have to pay those costs. Today all those single family only areas costs more to maintain than the taxes payed by those who live in them so they are basically subsidies by those living in the dense areas and even worst, by growing debts for the city, covered by new similar area until it all implodes. The best way to handle this will be to separate those sprawls from the main cities they are part of turning them into their own municipality that needs to pay for al services. This will force those places to density and those who wants to maintain their way of life will have to pay the cost. It is possible to live great in a dense city if the money payed by those who live there is invested back in those dense areas instead of subsidizing the ones choosing to live "in nature".

[@mickeygraeme2201]

@@AL5520 I assure you the rent seekers are not who you think they are.

[@ispeakasiplease]

I completely agree. The only good thing about the suburban office park I work in is that it's so vast and expansive, it also serves as a food desert. Therefore, I'm heavily incentivized to make or bring my own lunch or not eat much of anything for 8 hours a day during the week which saves me money lol.

[@shieldgenerator7]

i love your optimism, but thats just looking positively at another negative

[@riblets1968]

I do the same out of habit! I like the way you think.

[@TLM860]

It's like a college campus except no one wants to be there

[@GegoXaren]

And not in the middle of town/city.

[@FlyingOverTr0ut]

Though I wasn't an urbanist at all at the time and wasn't aware of the concept, when I discovered suburban office parks where I'm from in northern Virginia, I found them so depressing.

[@icanhazADHD]

So happy I live in Boston and that I can ride my bike to work. It's less than 30 minutes each way, and Boston even clears snow in the winter!

[@kailahmann1823]

And suburban office parks create an even worse form of car dependency. If you need to travel two miles from your home to the next bus stop, you can do that with a bicycle. But what do you do, when you need to walk two miles from the bus stop to your job?

[@GirtonOramsay]

It's a pain. Had to do that when going home from HS in the Orlando suburbs...after cross country practice. 15 minute walk from school to bus stop, then 30 min walk down a stroad or wait even longer for a bus transfer. Biking would have been impossible since I took the school bus in the morning.

[@Bizcachi]

You're not gonna see this comment probably but just know this video is amazing. Youve hit so many good points abt these horrible places and im not even done watching Also I laugh (cry)at the concept or "rural living" when suburbs and office parks in Puerto Rico dont have like a single tree in sight.

[@missZoey5387]

I wonder how many NA suburbs can even be salvaged

[@3of11]

Most are built so poorly they’ll fall apart in 50 years. Let it return to nature

[@missZoey5387]

@3of11 at least we can get some abandoned exploration

[@Matty002]

​@@3of11unfortunately the introduced invasive plants [grasses!] mean they will never return to their 'natural' pre-suburbification state

[@Roxor128]

I was going to suggest an unwalkability tax for businesses, but I realised that simply mandating that businesses must pay their employees for their commute time and costs would have the same effect. If you have a hundred employees, would you rather pay them each $12k for car costs, or a few hundred in public transit ticket sales? Of course you'd rather the latter, so you'd set up shop near public transit, and if there's no such location in town you can move to, you'll gripe to the city council about it in the hopes they'll add some.

[@eugenetswong]

There is no need for a tax. Just let developers build offices above retail spaces, and below apartments. In fact, require it. Spread offices around, and densify housing.

[@seanm600]

The workers would eat the tax burden. That wouldn’t solve anything.

[@abcdeshole]

As someone who lives a 15 minute city lifestyle and walks everywhere, I wouldn’t appreciate it if my suburban coworkers made $12,000 more than I did just to subsidize and reward and them for driving into the city from their car-dependent hellholes.

[@Roxor128]

@@abcdeshole If they're being paid what the car costs to run, they're no better off than you, because they're spending it all on the car, so it's just making things more expensive for your boss. Just think what that'll mean when layoff time comes: the drivers will be the first on the chopping block.

[@iggel-]

That shot of 'Redmond: Bicycle Capital of the Northwest' was perfect lol

[@RafTheDude]

Oh my goodness, every time I pass by that sign, I just kind of 🙃🙃🙃 You cannot call yourself a "Bike Capital" and have the entrance be a stroad.

[@Roxor128]

Damning _yourself_ with faint praise!

[@rokksula4082]

You need to come to Vashon, the ‘Bicycle in the tree’ capital of the Northwest

[@coreballisepic]

It is wild to see my apartment building featured in a KZbin video. Everything feels so local and that’s why I particularly enjoy hearing from this channel

[@rachelwuest9776]

Same, lol. pretty sure my partner's Redmond business park was featured

[@joshposey116]

It's almost like the solution to suburbs is cities. Crazy that we've come full circle.

[@Matty002]

i mean theres always the streetcar suburb model 🤷‍♂️

[@Pseudo-Fraxineus]

so happy i found your channel from your blistering starfield review. yours serves the intersection of gaming and urban planning, which is a neat combo.

[@street_ruffian]

I work in a suburban office park that is completely devoid of transit connections and barely has sidewalks despite being pretty close to a dense walkable region. This means I either go by biking in bad conditions, sometimes using transit for part of the trip, or get stuck in traffic trying to leave the densely populated area. I always find I enjoy biking more, despite biking being a an after thought that is kinda dangerous.

[@Tampa0123456789]

Translation ( Classism ) Just look at these comments sections and read between the lines. They say things like " I don't want to be on the bus or train with those people " In America the inner city has been left to rot and die. Where I live ( FLORIDA) is all suburbs because it's a late bloomer state and Downtowns are all nice and new. But our American suburban lifestyle has more to do with Classism. I am not against it. It's none of my business but I see it where I live . 700 thousands dollar home 200 bedroom but only 2 occupants 😂. 10 row SUV but always 1 passenger. When I visited Europe, I noticed that the wealthy lived down town 😮.

[@janvanhoyk8375]

I wish I could go back in time and experience the joy that someone going into a new office park supposedly would have felt... these are some of the most depressing places in north america, and so isolating. I think companies in many cases liked the isolation and dominance of the company that these places instill in those who work there. I see so many of these abandoned nowadays. Easy to redevelop into apartments though which is great.

[@oregonsenior4204]

14:48 Good job capturing Seattle drivers tailgating and taking a yellow stoplight as a suggestion. I ❤ Seattle but the DRIVERS, man.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

Yellow mean floor it 🤣

[@pollyhasanasbo]

Interesting video, especially the history! I have to drag myself to head office this week where the "park" bit of "office park" is laughable: the only greenspace walkable in a lunch break is a bleak litter filled verge and rugby field on the edge of a stroad. And don't forget to pack your own lunch bc since the canteen closed due to work from home you have only one choice and because of that you will queue for ... your whole break. Truly an incredible feat of planning

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

While I prefer my compact mixed zoning from home (tokyo), i did like the peacefulness of the secluded wooded perimeter with a small plaza, business plate in marble out front, a small pond and a 3-storey curtain glass building accessible by a winding road that connects to a highway access road (but it's far enough away to not even hear). If buses could make it out there, it would be nice. I know this would be major expensive and impractical for each individual business or building to be done like this..as well as rather isolating.

[@Kaede-Sasaki]

Imagine if each that i mentioned above was a mixed zoning building, so each were compact neighbourhoods (mini-malls with apartments, but with curtain glass exterior)

[@michah321]

I'm totally for separation of residential from commercial and retail. But why separate offices and retail? That does seem odd and there's no way to get lunch

[@rachelwuest9776]

Very well done. I work at the NOAA regional center here in Seattle right on Lake Washington and although it's far from perfect our campus still has a lot to offer: walking trails, gardens, child care, cafeteria shut down in COVID but we just started having food trucks visit campus, multiple bus stops on campus although ridership is low.

[@cheef825]

magnuson brewery aint half bad either lol

[@pruwyben]

I love the footage of some of the nicer bike lanes and trails in Seattle.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Just follow the money: compared to downtown development, suburban land is usually cheaper, low rise suburban buildings usually cost less to build, and the resulting property taxes are lower due to lower property values. What’s more almost all of the trade off costs-extra infrastructure, cars and gas, commuting time-are paid by other people, not the business itself. When you add it all up, the financial incentives are pretty obviously skewed in favor of the suburban development. The way the system is set up, intentionally or not, it’s just good business.

[@kjh23gk]

NJB coined "fake London" because when people hear "London" they think of the capital of the UK. Does anyone really confuse the Reno in Nevada with anywhere else named Reno?

[@Kevin_geekgineering]

2nd that from Canada, all this country is sea of parking lots and strode after strode with absolute no side walk, cross walk or any thing that remotely let people exist outside of a car, what a stupid country, design exclusively for cars and nothing else

[@jackiepie7423]

😁i use to live in Seattle's Interational District and worked 7 miles away in Ballard. It took me 25 minutes to get there by bike and 35 minutes by bus. so of course i rode. I had to be there at 6:30 often at sunrise. I took the very same path shown 5:41 in the video. Beautiful.

[@linesteppr]

“American culture values the pastoral so much that we could gladly destroy rural settings so suburbanites could LARP as people who live off the land.” 👨‍🍳💋

[@riblets1968]

This video hit home hard. My company retrogressed from a prime downtown location WITH many businesses within easy walking distances AND reasonably good--although nowhere near great--public transportation options whose costs were partially subsidized to an ugly, soulless, suffocating, isolated suburban office that almost nobody in the company wants to commute to. Public transportation in the latter technically exists in this new location but it is hugely impractical for almost all of us to use it; there are few businesses nearby and not encouragingly walkable. The entire area has few places to walk in any degree of safety. Even if it were more inviting to walk on paper, it's obnoxiously loud from being sandwiched between two major highways. To add insult to injury, owing to increased traffic density compared to the the city center, the commute is just a bear. It's numerically farther, and considerably slower no matter which way you choose. I still work at home the majority of the time, thank goodness, but there is increasing pressure from the higher-ups to increase my number of days at that horrible office.

[@JoshuasRecordings]

2:48 - that is a lie. I love driving and therefore love commuting. Just me, my music, and my old 90s or 80s classic car (depending on which one I decide to drive).

[@Ranman242]

"Even the coffee breaks have glamour!" lol what?

[@kailahmann1823]

This constant fear of being in a car crash is something difficult for me to grasp as a European. Sure, crashes happen here as well, but they are more like a remote risk not worth thinking about. But in the US even a minor crash may cost you your job, because you are either late today or because you can't get there until you've brought a new car.

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

I work in a suburban park about 17km (10 miles) from home. My commute is about 45 minutes each way - by bike. I love it! 2 years ago I splurged and bought a $2000 titanium bike, but if the average American spends $1000 a month on a new car, I've basically been commuting free for a year and 10 months now. Lucky to have bike infrastructure about 1/2 the ride and mostly quiet side streets the rest of the way. But still, you're right, suburban office parks do suck. . .

[@GeeEm1313]

Office "park," where you have to park to access the buildings.

[@GeFlixes]

5:10 Actually much more. The costs of driving come out of your income you have already been taxed on. Spending 12k less on transportation is a lot more money for you than increasing your salary by 12k.

[@muphart]

Great video. I appreciate how hard it must be to make new urbanist content these days. This brought back memories of all the pain of deciding what was possible on my lunch breaks that would mostly be spent driving.

[@DinoCon]

If I'm going to be traveling a great distance for work, it better be fucking cool.

[@TheBitterSpinach]

Suburban Offices are fine, it's just how the US does them are terrible and too car-centric. Europe has them but they provide workers with multiple choices to get there besides driving.

[@Mario-mx1uh]

I commute by train and bike. That's genuinely an enjoyable moment. I also save a lot of money. Choose where you live wisely, if you can.

[@michaelarnold2728]

Loved this video, especially since I am familiar with every scene scape of the Seattle area you filmed. Some of those venues are a part of my daily routine, in particular the waterfront bike ride near the PI sphere. Thank you for the wonderful video tour!

[@gregorydaggett7444]

Love the content! Would it be possible for you to list the books/ references in the description? I'm a civil engineer and I want to look into the book you referenced. I'm sure if it was linked, more people would take the time to check it out. Thanks for the great content!

[@YetAnotherUrbanist]

They are listed in the description. This is the link to the book: direct.mit.edu/books/book/3128/Pastoral-CapitalismA-History-of-Suburban-Corporate

[@TheStickCollector]

Another reason I won't go into corporate jobs

[@TrogdorBurnin8or]

If zoning isn't an issue, then the moment you create an 'island' of mixed-use walkability in a highly desireable area, every office-park neighbor of that island starts getting offers from developers to turn them into clones of that redevelopment. It's not the easiest way, because the transport and utility infrastructure may not be set up in the right format, but it's the best way if we resolutely refuse to plan out new cities from the top down.

[@mickeygraeme2201]

There are examples of this in tysons virigina and in dallas and king of prussia pennsylvania. You are correct but most urbanists understand that this is usually coupled with a 1:1 car parking area. Which urbanists don't like.

[@Randomgen77]

As you touched on towards the end, I hope that the WFH “right sizing” of office stock will see a lot of the suburban office parts be first on the chopping block. Urban core office districts are inherently better able to have the desired surrounding environment (transit, food, other businesses). I have often passed by some vacant suburban office stock on my commute (and retail stock, too) that would be perfect for TOD housing projects, if the developers would get off the pipe dream of ever needing these buildings for office work again.

[@TheRandCrews]

I hated one of the new suburban development in my Canadian City. Southwest side of the city has like a new area built having new mixed use buildings inside a commercial center. Still wasteful on how much surface parking it has, but only less than a mile north of it there’s a Business Park along another Major arterial road, but they’re divided by a low density McMansion subdivision. It would’ve been a bit forgiving if they combined or densify the area in between or had the Business Park and Commerical centre near to it. They already surrounded by middle housing lots, practically like a new town centre but ugly planning and development killed that. No buses run on the busy arterial road for the Business Park, but the Commercial Center has like 4 15 min frequency bus routes and one of the busiest ones too. At least the new Southeastern suburban area being built feels like an actual new town with most buildings along the arterial are dense 4-5 stories housing, mixed use complexes, some low density strip malls but surrounded by apartments and condos, and a bike lane on both sides though atrociously designed. 2-3 buses serve it though an “Express” and a Weekday University commuter bus.

[@eugenetswong]

what city are you talking about? I am guessing that you want to keep it private.

[@kutter_ttl6786]

You're from Toronto, aren't you?

[@TheRandCrews]

@@kutter_ttl6786nope prairies

[@TheRandCrews]

@@eugenetswong Saskatchewan

[@eugenetswong]

@@TheRandCrewsHopefully, you can your city on the map like Edmonton.

[@jackh3242]

I'm confused by the graph at 3:26. It looks like it's saying cynicism decreases with commute time in minutes.

[@momentogabe]

Really enjoyed the video! You planning to attend some of the many transit events opening here this year? Swift Orange line opens in a week!

[@YetAnotherUrbanist]

I won't be in town for the Orange Line opening, but I do plan on attending some of the events, such as the Link Light Rail Line 2 opening at the end of April.

[@momentogabe]

@@YetAnotherUrbanist will you ride the new swift line after the fact?

[@NelsonBrown]

Oh man, you missed an opportunity to include the scene from Office Space when they hike from Initech to Chotchkie's Restaurant. (I think. It's been a few decades.)

[@davidbarts6144]

I have worked in office parks, I have worked from home, and I have worked downtown. Office parks are by far the worst of the three (and WFH the best). I have turned down a job because it was at an office park not served by transit and only reachable by badly-congested roads. The best thing about working downtown is the proximity of nearby restaurants; it is so easy to choose to eat lunch at a restaurant (and there is so much choice of options). Also, doing errands is easy: one can dash out to a bank, or a store during lunch hour or even a break.

[@LouisChang-le7xo]

On top of everything, those office parks suck out employment opportunities from the city center and essentailly kill downtown, forcing people to live in the suburbs and get cars

[@penguinsfan251]

We don't like cities, don't want to work.in cities or even go to cities. Litter...always people smoking...often blunts...rude people on buses. Cities are obsolete. The wave of the future is work from home and a return to rural living. Yup, rural living usually means a car. So be it.

[@TheNobleFive]

​@penguinsfan251 I'm afraod things won't be going that way. The things you don't like about cities are symptons of poor design and ned to be fixed, not abandoned. Besides that, there are a lot of younger Americans that are over spending a third of thier life in cars. They're going to build more walkable cities. You'll still have your rural lamd of you want it. Better cities doesn't mean no rural living. They're not mutually exclusive.

[@mickeygraeme2201]

@@TheNobleFive Cities are usually and have always been population sinks for the low iq.

[@timothyreal]

Great video! Thanks for talking about this!

[@Name_Pendingg]

i did not know that "the greenery" was an argument for suburbia, like, what greenery? the half dead looking trees and grass? it honestly look more depressing

[@lefishe5845]

Id be much happier with the marsh the parking lots took over than the trees ontop of this now flooding lot.

[@CaradhrasAiguo49]

18:39 otherwise known as a lifestyle centre ideally, my solution would be for a prohibitive tax assessed to the property management: PA / GA * FMV = annual tax owed PA = parking area GA = ground floor surface area FMV = fair market value of the office park

[@electricvehiclehead]

Was literally just thinking and reading about this this morning!

[@barryrobbins7694]

Has no one mentioned the movie “Office Space”? It’s a classic.👍

[@user-ue8vp6fy8y]

I will never get the bike thing. Why go back in time technologically? I can drive a vehicle where i dont get wet from a to b in 10 mins. That takes 40 mins in a bike. Please stop shoving this down our throats, its like telling people to go back to horse and cart.

[@LaMenta3]

I've had to forego a number of job opportunities located in isolated office parks because I cannot drive due to a disability.

[@riblets1968]

Here's an idea: instead of one huge, ugly, isolated, soulless building to make everybody go to; rent a number of smaller satellite offices in or near places where their employees actually work? Some can be in the cities, and others can be in suburbia, according to one's preferences.

[@aabb55777]

Suburban office parks aren't about cars. Suburban office parks substantially reduce premiums for business interruption insurance. Every building has its own industrial generator and fuel supply. Also the insurer/reinsurer can determine a risk for building damage and subsequent losses of data/files helping improve recovery insurance.

[@forivall]

Early in my career as a software dev i interviewed and worked at some places in office parks. At least it was in Vancouver, and so they were accessible by transit, but they still sucked.

[@dominiccasts]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess at least one was SAP, since AFAICT they're mostly set up in the industrial areas of Burnaby, and they were on a hiring spree a decade ago.

[@TJ-USMC]

Excellent Video !!!

[@YoJesusMorales]

I like the idea of looking the history of stuff that inconvenience us in some way and just say thanks.

[@famitory]

office parks can get pretty surreal in their islanding efect. there's one i used to make a bus transfer in called commerce valley that's right at the edge of a commercial zone, so you stand at the bus stop and stare down leslie, and between the crack of these pretty big buildings looming beside you, you see a vast expanse of almost nothing. acording to the map there's some housing further south but you can't see it from there, so it's as if civilisation just suddenly Ends without warning.

[@malaquiasalfaro81]

You are easily my favorite Urbanist

[@railroadforest30]

Agreed

[@ravenragnar]

There is no choice any more. Only the illusion of choice.

[@rokksula4082]

I love that Welcome to Redmond sign, the bicycle capital of the North West 😆

[@Mo-mu4er]

5:36 It's a Jeep thing!

[@mdhazeldine]

This video was a bit too long. You don't need to to make the first 8 minutes about "car bad". Anyone who watches your channel already knows this, or could easily see other videos you or NJB have made about that. After 8 minutes, the video was pretty good and you made some great points, although you do present a very one sided view. I have worked in several UK office parks in my life, as well as in the City of London, and at home, so I feel pretty qualified to have an opinion on this. In my experience, I liked that with an office park, you could park right next to your office and not have to pay. I also liked not having necessarily drive in the same direction as all the other rush hour commuters. That is one advantage of decentralising workplaces. Also, while working from home also has many plus points, there is something about being in the same physical space as your colleagues that you just can't replicate at home, and many companies realise this, which is why a lot of them are getting employees to come back to the office (at least some of the time). HOWEVER, I will agree that most office park environments are not very nice. Massive oceans of car parks are not a great use of land, and it would be much better if there were public transport options nearby. Also, the lack of anything to do on a lunch break is a big issue. I frequently found that I would have to drive to a shop to buy a sandwich for lunch and find a place worth going for a walk, so that's a fundamental failing of the design. So if we're going to build offices, I do think they should be put in more mixed-use walkable areas with public transport, but I don't necessarily agree that they have to all be in the downtown core, as that will just generate a lot of rush hour commuting traffic in a small area, and then the downtown risks becoming a ghost town in the evenings and weekends (which is the case in the City of London).

[@threesixnine369six]

Suburban/semi rural businesses/industrial parks in the Netherlands are funnily enough quite nice 😅

[@ONEIL311]

I feel like the landscaping isnt shit talked enough. Like yay we got grass and trees... where the the bushes and flowers? Like yall dont even got cherry blossom trees.. you got a boring ass oak tree you can sell for 1000 bucks easily when cut down and you got mulching you over paid for.. like wheres the blue bushes and pretty flowers. Like yall dont want deer wandering through the parking lots.. at least make it look nice and be productive like berry and grapes. Mass grass looks like shit

[@HarvestStore]

Great video.

[@OmegaRejectz]

Got a Ford ad. Good job wasting your money Ford.

[@apoletestry3766]

2:03 HOLY SHIT A BUS IN NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!

[@lopoa126]

Reno is also known to be pretty racist. My cousin lived there and people would tell her that her people are only good for cleaning hotel rooms. No shame in their voices.

[@jackiepie7423]

sounds like the office parks are on there way to a doom loop of their own

[@drsunshineaod2023]

The shots of Nevada you have are the hugest cognitive dissonance every time, and I think it's intentional. Far off in the background are these absolutely gorgeous glimpses of scenic mountains and valleys, a wonderful alpine paradise... were it not for the massive looming foreground of horrid grey concrete and loud cars zooming past at breakneck speeds on vast expressways.

[@matthewcron8842]

It really is. Nevada is some strange twilight zone like that.

[@woltews]

Major fallacy - everybody buys only new cars and buy a new car each year

[@SirKenchalot]

It is so frustrating how American academia tries to blame everything on a random quote from the Founding Fathers that they cherry pick after years of searching and then claim is responsible for all the woes of modern society, even though literally no one else remembers or has ever heard that quote. When I was working at an office park in the UK, having a desk with a view of the countryside was considered preferable by most of the employees to the point where I would use it as a bonus for those who worked hard; none of those guys have ever herd that quote yet somehow they still liked seeing nature, almost as if that's just a part of being human and not a Founding Father invention. People like looking at nature; they also like socializing in cities; suburbia and business parks are the bastard offspring of these two ideas and try to do both while succeeding at neither and it's nothing to do with Jefferson.

[@dominiccasts]

1:40 Regarding a derogatory term, it's probably best not to. "Fake London" kinda makes sense because London, Ontario is not the first London people think of, Reno is just what it is, and your frank discussion about the situation there does more than any epithet could to communicate your feelings.

[@baddudecornpop7328]

You're right, there's nothing representative of nature in the suburbs. However downplaying a legitimate drawback of cities helps nothing. Of course, the conditions differ but some are just downright squalid. Seeing ppl just lying around on the sidewalk and bars on windows in the "nicer" parts of cities is ridiculous. People won't subscribe to some of the urbanist's ideas or proposals until urban areas improve. For any that doubt, there plenty of channels where ppl drive around different places/areas. See for yourself.

[@mixolydia3309]

Those channels are playing on peoples’ fears about crime and trying to get views. Lots of urban areas are great. The suburbs just cater to willful ignorance about the state of the world. What cities have you been to?

[@baddudecornpop7328]

@@mixolydia3309 some channels may do that, I have no doubt. However, there are numerous that I've watched that aren't partisan and they show blighted urban and rural areas. There _are_ problems in our cities. Anyone trying to dismiss the fact isn't trying to discuss the matter in good faith and warrants being ignored. I've seen a fair amount of cities. Every year myself and a couple buddies travel to see our favorite baseball team play an away series. So yes I've seen for myself.

[@mixolydia3309]

@@baddudecornpop7328 I didn’t say they were partisan. If video counts of KZbin content correlated with the real world, with how many urban planner channels there are, one might think that the US is making great progress toward safer streets and more housing supply.

[@zephaniahgreenwell8151]

Gambling is the core of all video games. Modern AAA games are just regressing to the mean.

[@Roxor128]

Uh, a little elaboration on that, please? Do you mean use of pseudo-random number generation to add variation? While Doom (1993) makes extensive use of it, I'd hardly call that gambling.

[@manlykilt]

@@Roxor128Loot boxes, gacha, it goes by many names. Spending actual dollars (or usually some derivative currency separated from dollars by a few layers) on a chance to get the in game item you actually wanted. It works and it makes absurd amounts of money.

[@Roxor128]

@@manlykilt I was asking about the "at the core" part. Lootboxes are a recent con.

[@TacticalRuse]

I like cars and i like your ideas too but sometimes the community here takes it too far which is why I dont watch these videos anymore...

[@eugenetswong]

I think that offices need to spread out to be built under apartments and over retail spaces. Putting all the jobs in 1 place is what got us here in the first place.

[@kev2034]

​@@eugenetswongOr just use public transport and pedestrian paths to the office parks like the rest of the world. My nearest office park is faster to walk to than it is to drive because cars take the long way while the walking path is direct. It's a cheaper solution than redeveloping everything.

[@eugenetswong]

@@kev2034 Our business parks are too far to walk to.

[@walawala-fo7ds]

The only thing more miserable than a driver stuck in traffic, is a rider of public transit. Everyone is staring down and their phones. Dead inside just hoping for it all to be over. Remote for the win.

[@kailahmann1823]

Is it really more miserable? They can at least do something other than concentrate on not dying in a crash…

[@walawala-fo7ds]

@@kailahmann1823 like what, concentrating on if you're about to get mugged or shot by the next mentally unstable person boarding? Or maybe trying not to breath the toxic fumes from the druggie next seat over. And let's not forget the bed bugs or lice that may be trying to climb on you from that seat that has some really disturbing stains. Ah public transit. Yeah. All they joy.

[@THE_BATLORD]

The dude in traffic is doing the same thing a lot of the time so id rather have the guy on their phone in a train rather than driving. Lol?

[@walawala-fo7ds]

@@THE_BATLORD And people do that because they rather be literally anywhere else. This video makes it sound like taking transit is this romanticized social experience. When in fact it is basically one of the lowest points of the human condition. Buch of worker bees saying nothing staring at glowing screens hoping for a day off. Sad!

[@THE_BATLORD]

@@walawala-fo7ds ok bro

[@eugenetswong]

I think that you took in too much propaganda. There are lots of office jobs that can and should spread out. Does every lawyer need to be downtown? If he doesn't depend on people to be in neighbouring offices, then he can place his private practise closer to home under and apartment and over a retail space. The same goes for medical clinics, and therapy clinics.

[@drscopeify]

I LOVE suburban office parks but the kind that have wooded areas, open lawns, water ponds, what I love is #1 you can actually cycle to them from the suburbs which is freaking AMAZING, #2 you can get out of the office and actually run or walk the property and properly relax a bit in a stressful day which is such amazing mental help I cannot even describe it. #3 I go to buy lunch at a local lunch spot or local Subway get a sandwich and then walk around the property while eating lunch which is so much fun, there are ponds with ducks, and watching them while eating is just great. We have birds, racoons, geese, just wonderful environment for intense mental work and keeping sanity with real life and the outdoors, get some sun.

[@barryrobbins7694]

All those things can be true in a downtown location (even sometimes raccoons). Additionally, there can be great architecture and interesting people. One the problems with suburban office park is that it may still require a long commute for many workers without good car alternatives. People’s mortgages last longer than their jobs, and it is not healthy to continually uproot kids if they have a family. Plus two income families are the norm, so it makes it harder to get two jobs with good commutes.

[@drscopeify]

@@barryrobbins7694 Downton is noisy, I cannot cycle to it from the suburbs and seriously lack nature. Suburban office parks cut down on commute by allowing people to live much closer to where they work and I can cycle which is #1 awesome. Cities are a minority of the population so why force everyone in to them? Here in Seattle the city has 700k people but the metro area is 4 million so why force me to commute when I have nature, I can cycle, short commute 20 minutes for me and get to have great nature, ponds with ducks and local wildlife really enjoy the office park, teaming with life. I am not sure what you mean by mortgage I bought my house in 2012 so over 10 years ago.

[@barryrobbins7694]

@@drscopeify My comment was not about you specifically. The majority of people will have to commute into the city or to suburban office parks that are not necessarily within bicycling distance. Suburban office parks are not a good option for most. If they were, the suburbs would turn into cities. The noise in cities are from cars, many from the suburbs. Better public transit would help that situation. Both places would benefit from more bicycling infrastructure and walkable environments. The spread out nature of suburbs just makes it harder.

[@cmdrls212]

Hi. From a fellow tech worker in Seattle to another, I don't need anecdotal tales of how wonderful cities are. please we know how terrible downtown Seattle is. The toxic air in buses, trains and bus stops. I wear a mask just to protect myself from whatever terrible vapors. The mentally disturbed all over the place. The boarded up shops and big chains that left. Like you, I work remote. Fully. I've never been happier. I've never once enjoyed public transit in Seattle. Not once. This romanticized idea of smiling people on a train going to a office is absurd. 😂 Everyone is dead inside. Nobody talks. Biking? Yeah, sure, 6 months a year maybe. The rest, do you actually live here for real to appreciate how rainy AND Dark it gets in the winter? It is not only terrible but dangerous. We're blessed with nature all around the puget sound. There are better ways to exercise than on a bike on a dark street when it gets dark at 4:30pm. Thanks to my connections, I actually have free downtown parking in a secure garage. I only use it when I'm down to see Seattle symphony, or when the CEO is in town and we gotta show up to meetings. It is actually faster to drive than to take that terrible light rail that's dangerous, stops too much, and it is the world's slowest thing I've ridden. Even so, I still wouldn't want to work in Seattle. My commute is now 20 seconds. My car is for fun stuff, not working. My ebike is for recreation, not to be an office zombie pedaling to sit at a cube and bang code out. Now I see those trains and busses as insanity. Why are all these people required to see and smell each other just to type on a keyboard? All forms of transit, private and public are climate unfriendly compared to remote. That's just how I see it now. Not only do I want to see the office park end, but also cities and offices. Forever. So no brother. City cores may collapse for all I care. There is no joy in anything on the streets of Seattle unless you're blowing your paycheck on vacation and don't have to work there 😂. I'm typing this on my private suburbian yard surrounded by beautiful native Douglass firs that are older than me. I'm watching native birds chirp and come eat the seeds I leave the. I got two pairs of bewick wrens building a nest in a birdhouse I built in my suburbian garage wood shop. I'm thinking about creating a rain garden this summer full of native grasses and plants just to see what comes to live there. And here I am listening to you talk about dead suburbs... Man, it's sunny today. Go stroll around Pike place for I dare you to find more nature than in my yard right now. And take a deep breath of that second hand smoke in Seattle.. If you're lucky and don't get toxified by worse things than weed smoke. The only thing I smell now is my coffee, freshly cut grass, and the only noise is a small plane going to lake union, my beautiful relaxing wind chime, and my Chihuahua barking at some crow 😂. ☀️🌲🏠 I'm very blessed and privileged to have all this. But I lived in an urban shoe box from hell to get it for most of my 20s and 30s. And I'm not going back. Regards, fellow remote suburbian lover. Peace...

[@TheNobleFive]

I used to think like this until i got to visitvand live in better designed, better ran cities like Osaka and Boston. I agree that work from home is more efficient for industries that can swing it, though. Personally (and I know this is anecdotal) I don't work well isolated and alone. Especially not for months on end. To think I used to call myself an introvert lol.

[@Dave-ei7kk]

I love “strips of greenery and an ocean of (free) parking” around my workplace. And I love that I don’t have to travel far to get there, thus keeping my transportation costs low. The downtown alternative features expensive parking, crowded, dangerous streets, and a much higher density of armed criminals preying on people who have to work there. So no thanks urbanites. Downtowns suck and I would never live or work there.

[@TheNobleFive]

Stuffing everything downtown isn't the solution either. People should be allowed to build denser buildings out in the suburbs that's more distributed (and thus closer to where people live). which wouldn't get in the way of what you said. Aside from the free parking, anyway.

[@kev2034]

It's comments like this that make me wonder if Americans even like eachother.

[@mixolydia3309]

What cities are you referring to?

[@callmeswivelhips8229]

The infrastructure in this country is so lazy. To privatize all form of transit, consequences be damned, implies one thing. Corporate capitalism rules all here. Anything unrelated to the bottom line of the largest and most powerful corporations is not valued or given attention. Thus any and all of these problems may...or may not be known (in particular, to those that could do something about them). However, they are unrelated to the happenings of the likes of car companies such as General Motors, Stellantis, and Ford. A depressing thought, but then again we are in America. So that makes sense...somehow I guess. Ugh...