Sun Temple Got BUFFED For The First Time In 5 YEARS!

[@MackanRules]

Really interesting changes imo! Let me know what you all think! Lot's of cool balance changes to talk about this update, and of course we will do some cool challenges with the new boss!

[@josh-gu6zi]

They look great, but may be too powerful especially for boss events. Dealing 100-200 damage for a 270k~ cost with sacrifices. And it's great attack speed

[@johannesdatblue4164]

..Nevermind you said it just after pausing xD but you also calculated that all projectiles hit, the sunavatars have a 3beam so i think you messed something up there and the 8 blades wont hit all the time, so the calculated dps is if all projectiles can hit. so effectively the dps may not even be 2x as much in best case

[@IsaiahSandau-pe5bw]

Can you make a late game guide for people with shiddy devices. Like a phone or sum

[@Kitten479]

They nerfed the pierce of the permaspike why can't we just have fun 😭😂🤣

[@penguinimptheinsane774]

1:23 the reason they say "other" patagons is because they were paying attention to how temples compared to paragons back when paragons first came out, and were happy how it was at the time

[@MackanRules]

ahh 🧐

[@different_stuff]

@@MackanRules goofy ahh

[@nothing-of5yc]

​@@MackanRules do the buffs apply to the tier 5 TSG?

[@patrickkujawski2511]

We love spending 300k on a tower just to be outshined by a funny dart paragon

[@DogzTheFemboy]

Temples are just better than the dart paragon…

[@clampchowder9569]

I think the dart paragon should have been like the sun worshipper, like the dart monkey is your regular monkey and then there's super monkey fan club and plasma monkey fan club, so logically the upgrade should be fan of the sun god, like a devoted worshipper that channels the power of the sun instead of plasma. There could have been really cool synergies between them, like a blessing effect on monkeys kinda like a permabrew thing. I feel like they missed a trick there considering the super monkey fan club already links both towers.

[@MaximilianTurner]

it's definitely better now if you 10x ultra boost, it can make it to 199 with only buffs addsd

[@Kitten479]

It's also funny how plasma monkey fanclub out DPS degree 100 dart paragon except on a few maps. Mostly the one that you can only place like 10 towers in 😭

[@JoeDan54]

The big change that stuck out to me was Ultraboost now being able to be used TEN times per round, well over twice what it used to be. (Oh yeah and Cryo Cannon is cheaper now which makes me very happy as a Golden Bloon hunter)

[@halt1931]

over three times

[@tpfoxCastro]

Doesn't that kinda ruin the point of the limit in the first place?

[@carldablob324]

​@tpfoxCastro The limit was not fun in the first place, it would trigger randomly when you didn't even stall rounds

[@sonicmeerkat]

@@tpfoxCastro kinda? but the limits moreso makes sense for farming to prevent cheese, with an ultraboost you're hard capped with how much you can snowball.

[@yolochip4889]

@@tpfoxCastro Ultraboost was being held back by inability to keep towers juiced with the temporary overclock buff for more than 3 times per round, which was stupid considering that Overclock itself didn't have a limit

[@LeDoctorBones]

I feel like a suggesting that 3 of the blades will hit is still an overestimation on single target. I would have placed it at 1 to 2, perhaps 1.5, giving 1165 and 1735 DPS respectively without buffs and 3333 and 3903 DPS with buffs.

[@Sol_Aureus]

Yeah, but rarely in late game will there only be 1 bad.

[@fnige]

@@Sol_Aureus He was talking about single target though

[@Kitten479]

I find it funny that the t4 and t5 too path super monkey in insta monkey form can be placed literally anywhere

[@Mar-oh4cl]

they keep buffing pirate lord what de hellll

[@Burger_145]

I know, it’s already an amazing tower just leave it be for now

[@TartagliaThe_11th_McDsEmployee]

I love watching Plord's ridiculous glow up history from being a niche insta killing tower to a monstrous T5 water tower that's been nerfed and buffed over and over

[@different_stuff]

@@Burger_145 pirate lord is not the best for bosses

[@Burger_145]

@@different_stuff it’s still decent

[@woeisme3018]

FREE 2TC!!!!

[@andrewlong9179]

That bug from v35 still exists. Can't wait for the day when there are just the right settings on a least cash elite boss where having two support temples is worth the extra 10% discount. (Based on some back-of-the-envelope calculations (admittedly, it was a very large envelope) with reasonable assumptions on what you need to spend before getting the temple(s), you'd start saving money at least cash scores of about 600k-700k. Kinda like the In The Loop Phayze event a couple weeks ago.)

[@fjolnirskaptason6841]

I've been trying to break the 300 round barrier on CHIMPS with no income bugs. The highest I got was 294 with good round RNG and 25k in support temple for more buffs/discount on other monkeys. I'm worried about these nerfs affecting the 150-230s which seem to be the make it or break it rounds.

[@foxwhistle]

The issue with balancing the temple is that it's so expensive in the first place that you're going to over farm and sacrifice the max amount anyway. The only times where you wouldn't are in Boss Events in which spamming Temples is the best strategy, but that's rarely, if ever the case. I would like to see some more encouragement to use the lower levels of the temple in more scenarios; They should reduce the Temple's base price by around $15,000 or $20,000 to make it a more appealing option for lower cash sacrifices, as the sacrifice amount would make up for the buff in price.

[@literallylegendary]

yeah, unless you're getting a support temple, if you don't sacrifice a lot of money into each category it's useless and complete waste of 100k

[@Kitten479]

They could also make it a cheaper only in chimps type of deal that would liven up chimps as much as a new tower would

[@lucianogastonbuetdelgado7670]

​​@@literallylegendaryMaybe it can work like the bottom village, the more sacrifices in range the expensive it gets. Until it got the 50k in eaxh categoty and cost its original price

[@hifty7779]

I think the nerfs to the pierce is fine, because of the new Mer monkey buffs that give more pierce, and extra to magic monkeys. the temple is meant to be buffed anyway, so a nerf seems fine.

[@Jams-On-Toast]

The mini sun avatars shoot 3 projectiles every 3/100 seconds that does 4 damage each, which is 12 damage per attack or 400 dps per sun avatar. I think in your analysis, you forgot to consider the projectile count of the mini sun avatars, therefore they are actually 3 times more powerful. This is why for single target is is actually better to go for a 1/0/1/1 temple because the support buff affects the mini sun avatars which will actually outperform the entire military sacrifice with just that buff. Though this is only true against single target because the planes have more pierce than the mini sun avatars

[@paumb64]

Amazing video! Very nice calculations, everything makes a lot of sense. Do you know how these changes affect tsg?

[@MackanRules]

Thanks! Im not sure because its hard to tell from just a quick sandbox test. I was hoping one of you guys would tell me lol 😅

[@evanjones9602]

I made a challenge in the last update that simulates a tier 5 boss fight on Sulfur Springs. Round 200 fortified BADs with 20x health but 5% speed, nearly unlimited money (10 million, to simulate a farming run on Elite Bloonarius), which I use to keep an eye on my DPS.

[@Kradrling]

I'm really surprised they left military sacrifices alone for the most part, considering that's generally considered to be the weakest sacrifice category

[@That1Dude.OverThere]

Old me: ughhhh! sun temple is such a waste! so wasteful! ughhhhh! so expensive! Me now: ughhhh! sun temple is such a waste! so wasteful! ughhhhh! so expensive!

[@original_pandus]

Lol same, i only ever used temples or sun god in very late freeplay games

[@tpfoxCastro]

Ultra lategame:

[@A_Good_Name550]

chimps/half cash be like

[@Acro_YT]

skill issue

[@abbadox315]

14:05 it's also important to consider the fact that shurikens now do significantly greater damage to stickied targets from MOABs to BADs (from master bomber). Ninja spam might still be the best. but I wouldn't be surprised if a hybrid of temples *and* ninjas contests or is on par with this.

[@anzeigefehler6495]

That hardly matters in lategame

[@abbadox315]

@@anzeigefehler6495 it does when one of the greatest metas includes spamming a TON of ninjas

[@PPedroFernandes]

I mean, the 10 times damage buffs seem fair enough to me. If you're sinking 300k into a tower, you'd expect it to be at least somewhat comparable to a dart paragon

[@Rohan_Spibo]

I estimated about a 25% power increase on my side-by-side comparisons, so it's funny to see assumption adjusted math actually back that up

[@calvinyee9002]

I just saw this change and started doing the math and was relieved to see this video so i dont have to do it myself

[@memeboi69-k3v]

Honestly, when I saw the Temple is being buffed in the thumbnail, I thought they were gonna allow for it to gain the powers from all 4 tower categories.

[@amethysttheotter5943]

its a huge buff with no drawbacks since pierce for temple doesnt matter, if you get a temple with those sacrifices, i can say you for sure also have anything that stalls, as a late game chimps player, sun avatar can do 4 times more than full only support temple, but with this im thinking about trying again for buffed temple sacs strat, the biggest issue with temple on chimps is its price, so you usually go only for supp sacs for discounts, but when you buy it you loose a lot of dps, so i always wait with purchase until i have like 20k over to buy super glue or something

[@josh-gu6zi]

I've seen the balance changes, and they are cool. But may be too much

[@GnarlyDuck-]

I don't think so for a 330k tower it's was pretty ass It needed a buff

[@GnarlyDuck-]

The buff is only about ≈20%

[@josh-gu6zi]

@@GnarlyDuck- it's only about 290k in hard

[@josh-gu6zi]

Yes, the late game buff is 20%~ but for boss events it will be alot stronger, since you wouldn't give it as many buffs.

[@josh-gu6zi]

And it is only single target, the pierce nerf is less of an issue

[@antoniokamenov140]

I can already sniff bro cooking a "new highest round in Btd6"video in the background

[@Potaot]

updates only out on steam not other platforms yet. so gotta wait if your playing btd6 on epic games or btd6+

[@olivergro7105]

Your stuff is great to watch when stoned

[@crosssans6133]

I'm still waiting the update on the playstore

[@original_pandus]

Same

[@josh-gu6zi]

Me too

[@Courraff]

Me three

[@MaximilianTurner]

were you accounting speed buffs in this ? just tested it in sandbox and the blades move as such a fast rate full buffed it's insane

[@khoderjbara7192]

did you have fast forwarding on?

[@bmanjamin]

this doesnt affect my strat vs tier 5 bosses to make a temple with an xxxl trap sacrifice and spam sun avatars i was honestly scared

[@nmmeswey3584]

I feel like the main issue with temple is that theres nowhere where it really fits save for ultra late game. In a regular chimps run you don't need anywhere near that much firepower, nor can you really afford to save up the 100k +150k in cash it requires, to say nothing of the other modes. You sometimes see it in bosses when all paragons are banned, but even then its mostly just for the support path and not as the main dmg focus

[@nmmeswey3584]

One big issue with this tower as well is that its a straight line attacker, and most maps dont have many places to place straight line attackers to maximize their pierce, and wherever would be a good spot for a dmg temple would also be a good place for most towers, wich you would have to sell/sacrifice when you get your dmg temple and rebuy them later. I get that it consuming every tower around it is part of the flavor, but it really hurts its use cases

[@dudhauwhejrnrk]

Even 3 is a bit much, theyre radial, so by definition more than one cant hit unless its on top of your temple.

[@Theverachic]

At least they’re better than bloonjitsus now

[@original_pandus]

I still dont have the update on android, idk why i dont have it on google play store but people got the update already

[@SchwarziHumor]

Android is kinda slow this time

[@Kitten479]

SO IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TODAY!

[@SchwarziHumor]

@@Kitten479 u guys got unlucky like the ppl that have the game on Epic Games they dont have it either yet

[@constellar6330]

​​@@SchwarziHumorman i was so hyped to update the game today 😮‍💨when will non steam btd players eat good

[@original_pandus]

​@@SchwarziHumor the update is already done we are just waitinf for google, apple or epic games to upload it

[@snowdrop9810]

There is something i really hate about temples: their support category outshines their damage category by far too much. Instead of sacrificing 50k of primary/magic/military, building 50k of those under a support temple is better. Which is sad because for budget setups, you end up skipping all but support, and end up with a glorified golden village

[@Oblivion9873]

I think using single target damage and assuming you're consistently landing 3+ blades every tick is silly

[@Lt_Koro]

the nerf to 1k military sac should be downright criminal

[@A_Good_Name550]

support is stuill the best sacrifice

[@vyor8837]

you made a massive mistake, a lot of the buffs increase attack speed, not damage (or do *both* ). This makes the buffs matter a lot more, not less.

[@Magikarpador]

Does any of this apply to sun god?

[@Glamiscoolest3]

svenska kungen tillbaka!

[@Chano-h2h]

First patch notes with no getaldo nerfs 😭🙏

[@RoderikThurgau]

on the new map geraldo is actually pretty strong because all his touretts gain his buff (i mostly use the camo mib moon 😅)

[@Kitten479]

So your telling me that we have to figure out how to get the temple in the center of spillway to get the most out of the temple

[@ashmander3465]

Fast track and double cash need to cost monkey money

[@Hollow_light]

Yep

[@NoamBenshahar]

bro what curentcy is that "E" where do you even live I don't think any country pays with letters

[@ivusin4670]

i love you

[@thivyanpa6750]

Why am i not getting the update yet, i live in norway if that helps its so sad😪

[@bomb2959]

I live in norway and i have it Try updating the game

[@dj_davey_d6851]

Coop cotd, just throwing it out there again…….

[@iwersonsch5131]

The pierce nerfs arguably help a bit with lag reduction. However, there's a much bigger potential for lag reduction by making - Sun avatar attack 5x slower, 5x more damage, and triggering 5 instances of all buffs and debuffs (we already know this can be done, see perma-spike) - Sun temple and TSG main attack 10x slower, 10x more damage, and triggering 10 instances of all buffs and debuffs

[@Craigalicioususa]

My game hasn't updated yet.... booooo!

[@judith6089]

24 seconds

[@zzgottold]

HII

[@BlueLobster-t3w]

this new boss absolutely sucks

[@Lilliana1]

Sun temple and true sun god are kinda trash compared to paragons let's be real here

[@number1-willstetsonsimp]

i feel like its a bit of a dick move to lock such a huge quality of life feature behind a paywall

[@NopeNope-mh4ty]

The problem is that it counts towards a black border. Like sure, if you want to pay to play with infinite lives and cash, go ahead. I’d rather actually have to try at the game. But counting it as a black border? That’s just not fair. I think they had to differentiate between this and sandbox/custom challenges, but this is just P2W

[@ShockRandy]

@@NopeNope-mh4ty I thought it wasn't usuable in C.H.I.M.P.S?

[@NopeNope-mh4ty]

@@ShockRandy i don’t know anything about it other than the bit in the video 😅. You’re probably right about CHIMPS, but it’s still annoying that it counts towards everything else.

[@ShockRandy]

@@NopeNope-mh4ty That's fair, honestly

[@Sol_Aureus]

@@NopeNope-mh4ty tbh, chimps (and maybe impoppable) are the only modes I care about as the other ones are not very fun (half cash).

[@ggdotlol]

not first :(

[@josh-gu6zi]

Correct

[@soimcoz]

First :))

[@Builevinh2022]

nice (first)

[@josh-gu6zi]

*second

[@Builevinh2022]

@@josh-gu6zi aw man :(