Sunak v Starmer: are Conservatives telling lies?

Devastating polling, the return of Nigel Farage and more talk of defections - it was almost looking like a truly nightmarish week for Rishi Sunak, but then came the TV leaders debate with Keir Starmer and the Conservative’s claim that a Labour government will raise taxes by £2,000 per household.
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Keir Starmer failed to effectively deny the Conservative attack line until the second half of the debate and called it a lie.
Today, Labour are again saying it is a lie and the Treasury have distanced themselves from it - but, perhaps, as the old saying goes, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has got its shoes on.
Two weeks into the election campaign, are we entering a new dirtier phase to this campaign?
Joining me in the Fourcast studio, Labour's shadow attorney general Emily Thornberry, the Conservative's Home Office Minister Chris Philp, and pollster Luke Tryl from More in Common.
Produced by Shaheen Sattar, Calum Fraser, Rob Thomson, Nick Jackson and Silvia Maresca
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[@MurphyOCP-001]

It's been proven to be a lie and channel 4 should take the most senior civil servant at the treasury at his word and call it exactly what it is, A LIE.

[@nimzgaz7049]

Looks like we’re gonna get four years off Tori done this Tories done that and nothing for the working people

[@mariaeast1429]

@@nimzgaz7049 the tories have never been interested in the working people, they give them breadcrumbs to keep their votes

[@seamuspadraigsanders431]

Don't let Labour make you look silly. I remember Labours claim over Iraq. Millions dead.

[@Pilky-Bs2Mc]

I cannot stand Chris Phipps. He's always been a weak tory MP. Cannot wait for them to be booted out.

[@RPKGameVids]

When someone tells you a pack of lies it makes you wonder what else they're lying about.

[@0MG.N0]

I'd be more impressed if you could point towards a single thing the Conservatives are NOT lying about. The party of Boris Johnson: BS wall to wall.

[@bluelv]

American here who can't vote but I really like Emily Thorberry! Elect Her!

[@coppershark1973]

Yes. They are desperate, desperate, desperate. What did we all take away from the debate today? One thing, Sunak is a LIAR. TORIES OUT.

[@ga4pro]

Both parties are neo n@zis. We need rus to denazify us please

[@maralynmitchell8261]

I've always watched Prime Minister Question time ,Rishi Shunak comes out on Top every time .A lot more I could say ,just watch some of them. Remember that Labour have not voted for much Independence for this Country .Check it out .What they actually vote for in Parliament .!

[@BogdanGheorge-bc8xu]

*RISHI MUST RESIGN*THIS

[@foolishnonsense2511]

So the Tories assert that Starmer hasn't got any plans at all and yet somehow they've managed to cost these non-existent plans in great detail and worked out it'll cost everyone exactly £2k in extra tax regardless of their tax situation. "Seems legit."

[@toriesout8692]

What Chris forgets is that it is a lie, and Sunak breached their own rules.

[@TheKnexMaker]

well said from Emily... a lie is a lie no matter how you package it or no matter who says it

[@GerryT.]

Theres no debate....Sunak said it was an independent Treasury assessment.......it was not. No disputing , it was a blatant lie.

[@mattbrown-mb]

Sick of the Tory lies.. vote them out!

[@tarquinmerryweather4929]

Sunak is a LIAR! Fact! The moderator was awful. Sunak acted as spoiled brat!

[@seamuspadraigsanders431]

Iraq.

[@johnsartmaterialguidestuto7757]

yes I said that too!

[@johnsartmaterialguidestuto7757]

@@seamuspadraigsanders431 Grow up!

[@seamuspadraigsanders431]

@@johnsartmaterialguidestuto7757 Dodgy dossier.

[@matt76716]

The moderator was awful.

[@joefortey4]

The newspapers are not talking about how Rishi had a good debate, they're calling him a liar. This is a disaster for Sunak.

[@JackGreen-gh6sw]

The newspapers are left wing, how stupid are you to not notice?

[@thecrimsondragon9744]

I’m glad he’s making himself and his even more unpopular than they already are. He’s doing us all a favour by hammering in the final nail in the Conservative’s coffin.

[@joefortey4]

@@thecrimsondragon9744 exactly, they absolutely deserve what's coming for them.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

Even the Spectator is calling them liars. I won't be happy unless this election results in the utter destruction of the Tory party.

[@birdyboy666]

Imagine getting Chris Philp on to defend that Rishi Sunak is not a liar! Off all the conservatives they chose Chris! The lad that was found out by Mick Lynch and called a liar 16 times on national television!

[@RK-bl8uv]

Chris Philp is just loathesome

[@romanparisi5503]

Really is

[@candyman5912]

He sure is

[@cly1121989]

Lol Chris filth

[@LightningStrikeify]

As soon as he said he was from a medical science background I was like ‘oh… that makes a lot of sense now’ 😂

[@esme8944]

Yes, I know he is,

[@andrewillsley6595]

Chris Philp comes across right now as unlikeable and a lier like his mate Rishi. Seems like to be a tory politician you have to be both.

[@nickd.6365]

He's just a turd. Something akin to a third rate double glazing salesman.

[@frankjaffray8148]

Chriss is a muppet the sooner his kicked out the better for the rest of the country

[@andrewillsley6595]

It was a lie and the tories can not get away with it

[@jaydenlee2774]

Rishi is only capable of being a big liar and he is unfit for purpose

[@spitfire1962]

Perhaps Starmer didn’t think Sunak would come out with a blatant lie.

[@nicksmith4361]

Labour are lying.

[@kanedNunable]

he knew he would, hes done it every day since he became PM.

[@nimzgaz7049]

Kier needs to answer the question and stop telling bed time stories to people.

[@asaasare220]

English people are amazing … the group that’s been in charge for 13 or more years questioning the plans of those out of power and they claiming the y have plans where were these plans all along .. but from a colonized person I wish these people every evil they’ve bestowed on the colonized world

[@supervalueonline3830]

It’s not a lie 😂🤦🏼‍♂️. You people honestly choose to ignore everything to stick with your party. The numbers are fundamentally well calculated 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@mincn001]

Chris Philp is one of the slimier ministers.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

He's on track to lose his seat. If there's any justice in the world he will.

[@31Blaize]

"Are Conservatives telling lies" - is the Pope Catholic?

[@guest6240]

I love the physical comedy that Emily contibutes. Not interrupting, but interrupting! Eye rolls, sighs. She''s so fab

[@Alex-cw3rz]

"Doesn't have a plan, yet also costs £2,000" lies often contradict each others

[@guest6240]

From hereon in, Rishi will be called a liar by all opposition parties. 5 weeks! If this is an elephant trap set by Starmer then Bravo Sir!!

[@DCDPM]

A live fact checker should be present during these debates. The lies are absolutely scandalous from Sunak, and are getting more desperate by the day.

[@johnsprott5173]

All the liar's will lose their seats including the liar on the panel

[@johndavies9589]

Debate summary - Etchingham: "Kier Starmer, you have ten seconds to explain how string theory relates to Einstein's special theory of relativity." Five seconds later she lets Sunak interrupt.

[@johnsartmaterialguidestuto7757]

I got the impression she wasnt impartial.......she scolded both when obviously it was Spewnak who was the goader!

[@markd1516]

And then the media run a panel with their 'science expert' to dissect whether Einstein has an identity problem and whether the polls regarding the merits of string theory have moved at all.

[@Paddle65]

Emily is Ace

[@mfahy9047]

Imagine pulling "thats your opinion" on the Polling guy.

[@lookatmyroflcopter]

Tories motto "tell a lie enough and it sticks"

[@spawn6636]

Labour moto "change your mind so much everyone else looks like their lying 🤥

[@lookatmyroflcopter]

@spawn6636 maybe but Blair's Labour was far better than the tories. And let's not talk about reform (the fascist lovers/Putin lovers) dream

[@alice1374]

​@@lookatmyroflcopterseen enough comments on novara's praising reform UK for maga UK etc they're very unlikely to get anywhere because gbeebies failed, unlike in the American market it didn't. That stuff doesn't sell here.

[@user-xz4all]

​​@@lookatmyroflcopterВам бы лучше не про Любителей Путина беспокоиться, а каждый день перечитывать про "тупоконечников и остроконечников" (which end of an egg a person cracks) из Путешествий Гулливера, этой бессмертной британской литературной классики Свифта.

[@FoghornLeghorny]

The format was absolutely terrible

[@ScepticalBrit]

its Chris GULP GULP GULP Philp 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@nickchapman4053]

Mick Lynch repeatedly called philp a liar

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

Stating the truth then.

[@ben-tendo]

Sunak wasn't forceful, he was bullying Trump style. Starmer tried to keep to the rules, which was his downfall because even the format failed to do so.

[@JackGreen-gh6sw]

Kier lost due to his own stupidity... he can't run as pm.

[@ben-tendo]

@@JackGreen-gh6sw Labour on 40%, the Tories on 19% and Reform on 17% doesn't sound like Kier losing...

[@Pilky-Bs2Mc]

It was to me, decency from Kier & filth from Sunak. The fact that Sunak HAS to resort to lies means he's lost the debate to begin with

[@northleedspoppa]

Starmer was right not to call him on it Infront of six million ppl Now 60 million ppl know rishi has just lied to their face

[@stanwilson8089]

Tories are educated in how to overtalk and to be ignorant.The Tory in this interview is a good example.Surprisingly,the main interviewer is being over ridden.The tories craftily took up the most air time with over riding ignorance.

[@stephenhill545]

It's also misogynistic. Men are louder than women.

[@JackGreen-gh6sw]

That's not what I took from it. Emily is a turd, Chris Philip reflected the true debate that occurred last night. Kier was a write off.

[@stephenhill545]

The other poll said starmer 53, sunak 33, it wasn't mentioned.

[@fintamaria2429]

Normally we are used to Sellers of Illusions, but Sunak is dedicated to distorting reality as well😅

[@robwakelin5559]

SO, Chris, is it raining? "The roads today are so much better under Tory rule, and I will add that the roof on the local bike shed is the best it has ever been, protecting bikes in a way that Labour can only dream of" WHATABOUTISM

[@metalthrashingmatt]

The moment when the mask slipped for Philps and he started talking about politicians not being normal was hilarious!!

[@hayee]

I absolutely love Emily Thornberry and was so hoping she’d be up for Labour leader after Jeremy Corbyn. She says it as it is, takes absolutely no nonsense and is hilarious! But even more importantly, she’s articulate, intelligent and is never scared to correct people.

[@johnsprott5173]

Kier just ignored him he is nothing but a liar he shouldn't be allowed to debate again liar liar

[@G-Unit-fitness]

Our attention span is only worth 45 seconds, yeah that’s how thick they think we all are 😢

[@sandrafrancis3631]

Chris Philp lying about lying! All Tories are like used car sales men, and Philp is one of the worst! Hope he loses his seat! When he does i'll be clapping 👏!

[@davidellis1355]

I would happily pay an extra £2000 not to have this Conversation goverment in power. Id pay more to see the lib dems in opposition.

[@TM1337FalconPunch]

"i don't accept the premise that Sunak came across as less likeable or relatable-" "no he absolutely did" "well that's your opinion-" "no, it's not, that's what the focus groups and polls say" "well i respect your professional judgement" I mean, he obviously doesn't, or he wouldn't have wasted time arguing with the pollster about a matter of personal opinion. Is Chris Philp thick?

[@TopCatUK76]

Taxes per household have gone up £13,000 since 2019 ABs the Spectator of all things thinks the the Tory plans will mean taxes have to be raised 50% MORE than labours plans.

[@perrythomas4115]

Chris Philips reminds me of when you lift a flowerpot in the garden and find a grotesque insect desperately trying to bury itself in the earth.

[@Sassssky]

Starmer doesnt have a plan but itll cost 2 grand?

[@__globalcitizen__]

CONservatives

[@covfefe1787]

IRAQ

[@__globalcitizen__]

@@covfefe1787 oh... Are we triggered? Hahahahahahahaha

[@philippajoy4300]

No-one mentioned the ridiculously truncated format of the debate.

[@lynnpresland4213]

Constantly gulping and swallowing shows he is lying through his teeth 10:13

[@jcanyiam8309]

33:01 So what did Sunak say to HELP THAT LADY????? You HYPOCRITE

[@custa73burner]

Are the tories lying ? They are ALWAYS lying.

[@bradleyshukla697]

This was a far better debate than the one on ITV.

[@Tom_murray89]

And to be called out by your own civil servants says a lot

[@timlamiam]

the Tories are literally exercising death throes, kinda sad to watch.

[@nimzgaz7049]

That lady accuses Sunak for interrupting Kia Starmer, but in this video she’s actually doing the same thing hypocrisy

[@spawn6636]

​@@nimzgaz7049 that's the left for ya lol

[@mariaeast1429]

When the Spectator points out that the £2k was a lie, and then Fraser Nelson in his piece shows using the same formula that the tory special advisors used resulted in a £3K tax increase under the tories… you know it’s bad!

[@Spica1000]

Well, Tories have a proven track record for telling lies! All I’ll say here is three words! Boris, pandemic and parties! Enough said?

[@neilburns8869]

This is a word that i keep hearing more and more about Sunak and that is DESPERATE.

[@chickenbites8877]

Tory lies

[@andrealester4471]

Emily Thornberry is sooooo good. I'm also so glad there is someone clearly saying LYING IS WRONG ITS AWFUL

[@massada9232]

SUNAK Was like a bully in the playground

[@TheDuckAndRogerTheHorse]

Desperately clinging to the £2000 thing. One trick pony.

[@MysticTaiwan2025]

I could feel Emily’s exasperation through the screen >

[@Warbaman]

Hang on... do they not have a plan OR is it gonna cost us £2000? Lol

[@timecorn]

"They have no plan, so we made one for them, and it sucks" 😀

[@jonathanfell688]

Starmer only needed a draw based on his overwhelming polls. He did better than that. Sunak needed 11-Nil, he didn't get it

[@airs1234]

I love Emily. She’s just like me in an argument. Rishi is out for sure.

[@MarkLeeMcMeekin]

The microphone should have a built in lie detector and mute these muppets when they start spewing them and fact checked there and then for all to see on screen!

[@DCDPM]

Lie Detectors are useless. A live fact checker during the debates would be a good idea.

[@StyledObject]

imagine they just got them both in with this exact format, it would have been 10x better than the absolute rubbish we got

[@TheRaptorXX]

"First they fascinate the fools and then they muzzle the intelligent". Bertrand Russell on how fascism starts... Take note and fair play Mr Russell...

[@robin7275]

Chris Phillip is struggling to answer Kris question. A lie is a lie, bye bye Tory.

[@jackplane7408]

Sunak is a liar again sunak and Boris one of the same. Tories out

[@peteskoczylis9432]

This Tory is as arrogant and unempatjetic as his Boss. The Moderator should do the next debate

[@AH-te5gs]

Utterly depressing and thus reflecting the state of the country quite nicely.

[@VeitchyVeitch]

Chris Philp will star in a future series of Stath Lets Flats as a tory estate agent that has a series of implausible pratfalls with hilarious consequences. Chris Grayling will play his boss and father.

[@MC-vr3yh]

Punak out and his mate Chris out and back to his business. Enough is enough! Who ever thinks of voting for Tories just think what that lunatic lier of Boris Johnson did to our country. Punak ( not a spelling mistake) is from that pack!

[@PaulCostigan-ru6eh]

Don’t forget war criminal Blair and Gordon brown , they covered themselves in glory??

[@owatopham]

Good God! What is Chris Philp like? So is anyone who may have had humble background taking advantage of it by merely mentioning it. He is so horrid. Does he model his demeanour on Alan B'Stard?

[@petermizon4344]

SUNAK HAS NO WORKING CLASS FRIENDS,

[@yorkshirehousewife784]

That’s because he doesn’t run in working class circles.

[@nickd.6365]

That's the Caste System.

[@lewisartuk]

Why are the Tories allowed to lie. When will this end? July 4th? Please god please

[@sv9950]

This guy is horrible. Trying to win by shouting. Rude, unpleasant and trying to repeat a lie. How awful! The desperation the Conservative show is pathetic.

[@monkeyboy8424]

It's my experience that Rishi Sunak is a liar and cannot be trusted about, "Government integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level", 25/10/22 outside number 10.

[@simongoodwin926]

Did it land though, did it though! RIshi is better at delivering a lie, all Tiries are, and look where it got us!

[@nevertoolate5325]

Do Tories lie? Do their lips move?

[@allyspeedruns]

so labour have a plan because they'll cost the average tax payer £2000. also, starmer doesnt have a plan. WHICH IS IT.

[@danny3171]

My mum told me too be wary of men with jeans and a dressed jacket combo they might be a kiddy fiddler so run. It's the truth I have a 99 page dossier on it in my pocket . 😂

[@kerb.]

A presidential debate in a country that doesn't have a presidential system of govt. Could this country get any more ridiculous?

[@Omenhachi]

Prime Minister is a pretty similar position tho?

[@kerb.]

@@Omenhachi no. It's not. Because you can't vote for a Prime Minister. The party with the majority can appoint whoever they like whenever they like - as they did with the current Prime Minister and the last one. So whatever their opinions might be they are irrelevant unless you live in their constituency.

[@Omenhachi]

@@kerb. Also, bojo managed to call a GE and get more seats and it has been attributed to his charisma and PR etc (i know, it's sad), so people do vote on who the leader of the party is, for better or worse lol

[@kerb.]

@@Omenhachi I should add that the Prime Minister doesn't even need to be an MP. Should they win, there's literally nothing in the constitution stopping the Tory party from sacking Sunak on the spot and appointing Piers Morgan in his place.

[@Omenhachi]

@@kerb. Yeah, you are right, and Tory leadership changes like every year haha, but the leader is hopefully someone that people rally behind, like Starmer, Corbyn, Farage, Johnson etc etc, obviously there is a lot of moving parts but who the leader is does kinda matter, and they represent the party as a whole. Question Time is better for the more devolved things.

[@nathanprice1841]

Why does Chris Philp get more airtime to talk about 'possible lying' when he's on a par with Boris for lying himself continuously?

[@loopdigga86]

I just skip over the Tory answers. Just gaslighting and lying, complete dishonesty all the way down

[@Ktea_x]

You skip Tory but you don't skip the terrorist supporter Keir Starmer? Hilarious

[@1ForTheShieldz]

Both these two parties need to go. Labour trashed the economy and Conservative continued it. Time for real.change vote refor..

[@AmbulanceWaitTimes]

vote out the tories and end this madness any more of chris for the next few years is just too much

[@Skalekul]

The whole £2000 average increase per household is total nonsense. It will likely only affect the rich because they pay significantly more tax so are likely to pay the majority of the £20bn costs. Normal people on a salary of less than £100k are very unlikely to see anything close to a £2k increase. Even still, that's over 5 years and is per household, not per person. But it's rich people Sunak cares about because he's rich himself. He even said in the debate that people who can afford private schools shouldn't have to pay more for them.

[@jakks2089]

The audience was literally laughing at Sunak.

[@frankjaffray8148]

The sooner these liar’s are kicked out of government the better for the country

[@andyh3873]

..and what about Sunak's continual misleading statement that "Starmer supports extremists", knowing that to be a lie also yet stated again last night?

[@matthewwaters9742]

Saying Sunak had a normal middle class upbringing but went to Winchester is so out of touch. Not to mention he married a multiple millionaire who got her money from multi billionaire father. When Sunak spoke about owning a house and trying to relate it to man asking the question I found it vile. His first home was a rented malibu apartment in California and then he bought a stately home in North Yorkshire. This is not the same as wanting a two up two down.

[@michaelhoodleeder]

RE : "Sunak is detail orientated" he looks at the spreadsheets and then sits down with his team and works out how they can make really bad things. Sound good?. And if they fail. just lie.. then repeat. "It's not a lie " over and over when people cross-examine you on the detail.

[@noway631]

Tories lie so naturally

[@simongoodwin926]

How detaiked was he in his eat out scheme! BS across the board!

[@hess6wi]

Fast talking Tory seems like he doesn't have a plan for his impending unemployment. Going for that talk so fast people don't have time to respond to your lies.