Supercharging a lathe / Rocketronics ELS

This device automates many manual lathe operations and allows making cuts that were hardly possible before - with a few clicks right by the lathe, no CNC software needed.
www.rocketronics.de/en/els/
Manual where you can find the details on every supported mode: www.rocketronics.de/download/...
Please join me on t.me/MaximKachurovskiy for more DIY fun 🥳

[@brucewilliams6292]

Thank you for the over-view. That is a very interesting product.

[@hedning003]

a realy usefull and cool piece of kit there...have to look it up further

[@OG1]

Maxim, your video is why I purchased one. I love it and the customer service has been excellent in getting it dialed in. I also want to know how to do a sphere or ball. I did a simple radius and it worked well and threading is so easy. I appreciate you sir.

[@rickkempf3092]

Excellent video. I think the Rocketronics product is really well thought out. He apparently has lots of industrial customers in Europe doing serious stuff on big hardware.

[@YooProjects]

Great video mate. Its really interesting machine. Thanks 🙏

[@WeCanDoThatBetter]

Really cool! Thanks for sharing :)

[@markhobster8113]

Also I really like manual work but was worried I'd have issues for quicker manual moving on X and Y , I'm glad you mentioned you can turn each axis off with a touch of a button so the motors don't lock the screws when els turned on

[@shawnmrfixitlee6478]

That is very nice , I really like it ! Great share ENJOYED ..

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Thank you, ShawnMrFixitlee.

[@markhobster8113]

Thanks for the info, I'm looking to get one so I don't know about most of the issues you mentioned at the end, but the minimum 0.1mm depth of cut might be able to be made smaller with a different encoder or servo motor ( or both ) , if the servo and encoder only has 400 steps then upping to 800 steps will allow 0.05mm , or if trying to hit an imperial measurement like 5/8" ( 15.875mm ) you could always set the final pass to hit 16mm , then turn the Y axis off and Indicate the cross slide for the remaining 0.0625mm, that would have to be a high resolution indicator though :) Or modify the leadscrew for the cross slide to be a finer pitch

[@wizrom3046]

Maybe you can use the "inner cone" function externally, that will give you the left handed external cone you wanted.

[@creatingcreations8647]

Superb

[@mylesdownham1819]

hi how to cut imperial thread

[@pfp960]

Hello, I have installed the same system but I have an issue on the x axis precision. I believe it's caused by back lash but I m not sure Hou to measure it. Did you have the same issue? Thanks for your help.

[@android4cg]

Great review! How have you motorized the X-axis? Do you have somewhere detailed view on this? Thanks

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Thanks! Sure, www.thingiverse.com/thing:4714722

[@denislafourcade8244]

Hello Maxim, I started to implement this solution, based on your parts for the steppers installation. Unfortunatelly, my lathe, although it's also a WM210V, is a little bit smaller than yours. It has in particular a spindle with a 21mm bore with a 40 teeth gear. So I redesigned the encoder gear with 80 teeth in order to place the encoder further away from the axis due to the pulleys. I modified also the encoder base to make it ajustable for the gears spacing. I also redesigned the stepper mount as yours is too big to fit under the left cover. I did all this starting from scratch with SolidWorks, and it was not so difficult as the parts are simple. But this is another story with the cross-slide with motor! It will probably be simpler to start from yours, but for that I need a CAD file compatible with SolidWorks, for exemple a .step file. So I kindly ask if you could provide me with such a file. Thanks in advance. I'm looking for a solution to keep the X index, one option being to make a longer X axis (with the lathe!). But I don't have a milling machine to make the keyway, may be with a parting tool along the Z axis with the spindle blocked? I ordered the motors (NEMA 23 Leadshine 23331-L, closed loop for the Z axis, and Leadshine 42CM06 NEMA 17 for the X axis. I'll receive them probably at the end of this month and I'll keep you informed of the progress of this project. I'm waiting for Rocketronics for the rest (controller, power supplies and RJ45 adapters).

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Denis, happy to hear that your project is moving along. Not quite sure on your question about the X index, maybe a photo or a drawing could clear things up. Please find the cross-slide STEP and F3D files in www.thingiverse.com/thing:4714722/files (they should start showing there soon after they go through moderation) - cheers!

[@denislafourcade8244]

@@MaximKachurovskiy Thanks a lot Maxim! For the X index, due to the gear, you have removed the dial in front of the handle, which I would like to keep with a longer axis. I've seen that the ELS4 controller can make keyslots with the grinding function (spindle locked), so I'll give it a try. Very best regards

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

@@denislafourcade8244 I've re-added the dial back as a plastic piece over the handle, wonder if something like that could work in your case. Best wishes!

[@denislafourcade8244]

@@MaximKachurovskiy Oh, yes, I see. That must do the job. Great!

[@denislafourcade8244]

I've done a remix of the dial by adding texts on the scale: www.thingiverse.com/thing:4927826

[@milanercegovic8413]

Hello Maxim Thanks' for sharing, seen you other videos and I can't recognize a PCB that you are holding , different to a digital feed 7e2 that I seen, can you please post Link to it. Do a video with Rocketronics ELS if you are making something to show capability.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Milan, I'm working on making a PCB for Digital Feed 7e2 and showing here the first prototype. It requires a lot more work and is not usable as is, hope to post a video on it when ready. Please check the video description for the Rocketronics manual - can you think of a cool item to do using maximum amount of modes? Thank you.

[@Tom-xn7zc]

Thanks for sharing!

[@paulpahl1607]

You are right about the missing functions, especially the missing ability of left handed threads is really annoying. That should be a basic feature. And there is another problem: Inner cones are cut from -z to +z, that means away from the chuck instead of cutting to the chuck. The manufacturer explains this with solving problems caused by the backlash of the cross slide this way, which is correct as far as you don't use ballscrews and/or your conventional screw/nut is worn. But on the other hand this cutting direction doesn't fit the cutting edge geometry of the most common inboring tools. I'm using the ELS4 for quite a while, but I wasn't able to cut an inner cone with acceptable surface quality yet with any of my tools. An the manufacturer refuses to build in an option for 'normal' cut operation in the code, he just declines that that would be usefull. I'm turning cones manually again and don't use this function any more. Btw: The last firmware update of the ELS4 Basic is from August 2020, so it looks like there is no further development. Disappointing, because this device isn't cheap.

[@RocketronicsDe]

Hi, there is development stil ongoing, but the last function updates were special modes for single customers who needed a device for a purpose not needed by anyone else. We work on an upgrade, and will have many things changed soon. Left hand threads can be done easily when you use inner threading tools on the backside of the workpiece. But we work on that issue also.

[@paulpahl1607]

@@RocketronicsDe "Left hand threads can be done easily when you use inner threading tools on the backside of the workpiece. " - If you don't need the live center - If the diameter of the workpiece isn't too big so you don't get out of travel of your compound slide in X- - If the tread isn't somewhere in the middle of the workpiece so the toolholder would collide with the workpiece. Lots of 'if'...

[@RocketronicsDe]

@@paulpahl1607 You are correct, is not always that easy. I will see if we can add the left hand threading to the current threading cycle, but we will only be able to do that with 0 acceleration way, to be sure we do not drive into the workpiece. PS: There is currently quite an easy way to make left hand screws, with a hack: Just enter the settings, reverse the Z-Motor direction and you can cut left hand screws, you just have to think the other way round when positioning in Z direction. Everything else is automatic then.

[@RocketronicsDe]

@@paulpahl1607 I just made a very quick coarse video on how to do left hand threads with reversing the Z motor: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6m8cnipoLKopdE

[@IsMaCR63]

hi maxim. I wanted to ask you if you have backlash on the transverse axis. I have backlash on my transversal axis and I don't know how to correct it. For nano els, rocketronics or digital feed can a ball screw be used?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Ismael, Rocketronics does a good job accounting for the backlash. Digital Feed also has some backlash correction. NanoEls has none :) Ballscrews require more space than is usually available on our manual lathes and would be really hard to install, though not impossible. It's also not as easy to disengage from the ballscrew, their nuts can't be split in half.

[@guitarchitectural]

wow, so i've now made it through all of your ELS videos. I love everything about this one! seems like it essentially includes DRO correct? would there be any reason to even try to add additional DRO? it's a little bit annoying that they don't sell the whole thing as a kit - the manual seems to refer to generic motor requirements and leaves it up to the user to figure out all of the mounting. did you leave everything in place from your previous ELS - and are you going to abandon it in favor of this one? also - assuming that one switches out cutters for different operations does this one have tool options as well, like a good DRO would?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Yes, this one includes a motor-based DRO which tries to account for the backlash. It's good enough for most applications but it probably doesn't have 0.01mm precision in real world. I.e. a real DRO connected to actual metal would always be more accurate. I'm sticking with Rocketronics for now though I'm rarely using my lathe these days. It's understandable that Rocketronics can't provide exact instructions since there's a 1000 lathe models out there and then it depends on how heavy your cuts need to be. Rocketronics doesn't have any tool pre-sets, it relies on you zeroing the tool every time. Overall, Rocketronics is the best option available on the market right now and trying to DIY something better is unlikely to lead to an overall better solution (and will probably take forever).

[@paulpahl1607]

The ELS is no replacement for a real DRO. It doesn't show the real position because there is no position feedback. It only shows the position the ELS thinks that it is at. If for example the stepper or Servo stalls the ELS doesn't recognize that, same if there is anything slightly loose in the mechanic. I've build my lathe such a way that I can use it both manually (most times btw) and with the ELS, and I have a normal DRO mounted as well. I definitly don't what to miss the real DRO. And the ELS has no tool table, that isn't the intention of this controller. It doesn't replace a CNC and it nowhere states that is does. It's meant for just one operation at a time, and between different operations it requires a new setup for the positions.

[@guitarchitectural]

@@MaximKachurovskiy yeah, fair enough! in terms of the DRO what happens when you go into manual mode, do you have to recalibrate the whole thing or does it track it fairly well? I wish there were more videos of "using" it - for example if i wanted to turn some raw stock down to a specific diameter (tool A) and thread it (tool B), how much fiddling do you have to do to zero things out, establish locations, etc? it's one thing to do that quickly with handwheels, but entirely another to try to punch all of it in via a control panel. for that reason i'm leaning towards the 4 pro but I would be interested to hear how you like it in that regard.

[@guitarchitectural]

@@paulpahl1607 to that end though it does seem like a tool library would be simple to implement - if it allows you to set a 0 location, a tool library just calculates position relative to that by doing the math "behind the scenes".

[@paulpahl1607]

@@guitarchitectural There will not be a tool library. This is not a cnc controller designed to make one fabrication step after another using different tools. It's meant to do just one job again and again. If you want to start another job with another tool you have to setup it again.

[@snaplash]

When will lathes be available with built in ELS?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

They are already available e.g. on AliExpress but those ELS aren't very impressive

[@IvanDragunova]

Hi Maxim ! I bought the Rocketronics ELS 4 Basic, and chose a non-differential incremental encoder, the MBL3806-AB-600-24C-2M two phases (A, B, +5v and ground wires). The ELS Basic user manual states that a differential encoder must be used. It’s really required ? In your video, it seems your encoder is not differential either. Thanks !

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Hi Ivan, I'm using a basic AB 5V encoder, seems like the same as yours, had no issues. Cheers!

[@IvanDragunova]

@@MaximKachurovskiy Thanks very much, your help is very appreciate !

[@denislafourcade8244]

Hello Maxim, This seems interesting, but I have a question: the positions of the sleds refer to axes rotations, which have more or less backlahes. I saw in the documentation that those backlashes are taken into account by the system, but why not using DRO rulers to get a more accurate positionning?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Denis, DRO is very hard to install on most lathes and is another 200-500 euro. Lead screw measurements are enough for most applications. For 0.01mm stuff you'd need a micrometer anyway I think since there you're fighting with deflections

[@denislafourcade8244]

@@MaximKachurovskiy OK, you're probably right. Nevertheless, before to implement this solution, I think it is better to install ball bearings like you did to minimize backlashes.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

@@denislafourcade8244 some folks do that but then I think you loose the ability to disengage from the lead screw and go manual - which would he sad.

[@denislafourcade8244]

@@MaximKachurovskiy I mean bearings on the cross slide and at the ends of the lead screw, keeping the half-nut.

[@user-oh8pi5wy7k]

Доброго. Подскажите по поводу резьб. Есть ли левые, конические? С Уважением.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Костя, в описании есть ссылка на инструкцию с описанием всех режимов. Левые резьбы поддержаны были плохо насколько я понял (стр. 75). Конических резьб нет.

[@wizrom3046]

It must be able to do left hand threads. It would be nuts if they put that much thought into it and forgot left hand threads. In the ext thread screen, try changing your; Z P= -15.00 To; Z P= 15.00 By reversing the Z parameter it will probably start at the opposite end and thread in the opposite direction.

[@thiagosanchez4453]

Powerfull

[@michaelsemenchuk3056]

Looks like this may be exactly what I need. It would probably cost prohibitive to have these shipped to the US.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

It's 36 euros to ship to the USA I think. Not sure if there would be any additional tax.

[@rickkempf3092]

No duty or tax if shipped to the USA. I have the pro and various accessories. No problem with shipping, but order eVerything you need at once - separate shipping costs for multiple orders adds up.

[@guitarchitectural]

@@rickkempf3092 how do you like the Pro? can it function as a fairly good DRO, or do you still need one of those?

[@juliusvalentinas]

So why this is easy to use compared to the Russian version of electronic leadscrew v7e2?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Compare their manuals and decide for yourself :) github.com/kachurovskiy/megaels vs www.rocketronics.de/download/zyklo/ELS4_Basic_Manual_EN_web.pdf

[@juliusvalentinas]

@@MaximKachurovskiy But you can buy russian versuin on single PCB with all parts as kit version, english or russian language.

[@user-oh8pi5wy7k]

Доброго. Эта система учитывает люфты на подачах? С Уважением.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Учитывает, см. backlash в www.rocketronics.de/download/zyklo/ELS4_Basic_Manual_EN_web.pdf - успехов

[@user-oh8pi5wy7k]

Доброго. А где и как возможно приобрести? С Уважением.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

@@user-oh8pi5wy7k на официальном сайте, rocketronics.de. Правда с доставкой в Россию сейчас могут быть проблемы

[@JesseSchoch]

I believe you can't do a sphere because the controller needs to know what the tool geometry is. I still believe a webUI is the winner for an ELS.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Hey Jesse, good to see you, the controller knows the tool corner radius. It can do a negative sphere (round groove) so seems like doing a sphere is far from impossible. It probably just wasn't prioritized.

[@lensherman6242]

Agree on the UI. Stepping through a bunch of 4 line screens would drive me nuts. Either serve up a page or do something like TouchDRO and send everything over to a cheap tablet via Bluetooth for display and UI.

[@HM-Projects]

I did think about buying one, but then at $450-500 AUD it's way too expensive for me. Also, building my own is more fun ;)

[@Dessa_O]

Максим ты что в штатах живёшь???Арина уже невеста?

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

Nik Den, привет, живу в Германии. Арине 10 лет :)

[@Dessa_O]

@@MaximKachurovskiy ясно,уже невеста😄а почему ты не снимаешь русскоязычный контент?Видно же ты спец.

[@MaximKachurovskiy]

@@Dessa_O я программист и во всем остальном понимаю не очень много :) На работе говорю по английски да и в мире в 6 раз больше англоговорящих чем русскоговорящих. Надеюсь что многие русскоязычные зрители немного владеют английским - а может мои видео даже помогут им его улучшить, стараюсь говорить просто. На крайний случай обычно есть автоматические субтитры с переводом. Ну и всегда рад пояснить в комментариях 😀

[@Dessa_O]

@@MaximKachurovskiy я уверен если бы у тебя был русскоязычный контент о токарных,фрезерных станках,подписчиков,зрителей было-бы в разы больше.К стати за онлайн калькулятор по набору шестерен тебе спасибо.