Why Season 5 of Game of Thrones is So Mediocre

[@szabok1999]

Ser Barristan's actor really disliked the idea of his character's death. He wrote a letter to D&D asking not to kill him, and gave an argument as to why it is important for Barristan to stay alive. D&D talked about this in an interview and said while laughing: "that just made us want to kill him more"

[@tam6753]

They are absolute assholes. They made fun of the poor acto, who incidentally had a much better understanding of the story than the so-called writers and showrunners.

[@szabok1999]

@@tam6753 Exactly. They had the supposedly biggest badass alive killed by a dozen punks with daggers in a pointless scene, just because they could..

[@maiaj376]

Karma's a bitch... life comes at you really fast doesnt it D&D😒

[@camerontennant30]

It genuinely would have been much better to have Baristan come into the hallway in full armour for the first time in multiple seasons and have him decimate the harpies. Show us how badass he truly is and they can still have their injured grey worm and action scene

[@domhuckle]

10 points to Bazza the Bold for understanding the source material better than 2 jumped up pricks

[@TheCatWatches]

In season 5, Baelish, Tyrion, and Varys dropped 100 IQ points and stopped being their characters

[@randomname1234-n6k]

thats season 7 for you

[@fatfrankthepeteacher4237]

The first scene with varys and tyrion in pentos on the balcony is one of the best dialogues in the series

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

And stannis 200

[@randomname1234-n6k]

@The King of Nature they didnt run out, grrm said himself they had enough for at least 12 seasons. They wanted to rush through it and basically skip alot of story material. That when they ‘ran out’ of material and started ruining the greatest tv show that ever existed.

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

By season 8 to 0

[@Elcrisso1]

Jon Snow: He died for nothing; he was brought back for nothing; he was King in the North for nothing and he was the rightful heir to the throne for nothing

[@Elcrisso1]

@Merlin 😦 Jon “buh you’re my queen” Snow

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

He was brought back to assassinate me?

[@MollyFC]

Ygritte tried to warn him.

[@sternonisoil]

🥺😢😭

[@florimond1816]

Not really true he did some really important shit in season 6 like the battle of the bastards

[@abnormallynormal8823]

The worst part about Ser Baristan in season 5 is that the actor wrote a letter to D&D explaining why he thought his character should live and the impact his character could have in the future. The response from D&D was “it made us want to kill him more”

[@cairodavies4862]

They are such asses

[@ignatzmeyer1978]

When the worst atagonists in the show are the showrunners.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

Shame! Shame! Shame!

[@shiroinamida2002]

this makes me even more mad because I hate assh*les with passion

[@johnnycashew9101]

His character was also one of the greatest swordsman alive in the books. Like he could have easily taken a few unskilled assassin's, especially with an unsullied by his side. Ugh, I just recalled how into the world I was before the two fucking ass clowns killed all of my interest in a song of ice and fire. They gave away the ending and a lot of theories of the books. They utterly, utterly ruined everything about game of thrones

[@Tommykey07]

Stannis at Castle Black is like Littlefinger at Winterfell in Season 7.

[@qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq3216]

Little Finger lost 150 IQ points since season 5

[@gfilmer7150]

It would have been cool if they actually developed a relationship between both men instead of just being chummy associates. Both characters are very similar and Melisandre in book 5 describes Jon as a younger version of Stannis.

[@adrianekong1465]

I kinda disagree. Baelish at least tried to do something (confront the Sansa and Arya), Stannis was only wandering in Castle Black and asking Jon to join him.

[@poutsamouni5483]

I disagree little finger did what he was here to do as a character it was a fitting death however i wish he could do a bit more before that happened

[@thefisherman0074]

Littlefinger in season 7 had to be nerf 500 iq points just so Sansa and Arya could be relevant.

[@everhall306]

They didn’t even run out of books by season 4! They just decided to crammed two books into one season! CUTTING OUT THE BEST BITS!

[@txy9911]

You’re so right! The show peaked with season 3 and 4 because they split book 3. And then they made one season for two books. Imagine 3 season for books 4 and 5 and it would be soo good. But ofc they still changed soo freaking much🤦🏻‍♂️

[@jaimelannister1797]

@@txy9911 Honestly I gotta disagree with that last part you said about three seasons. Feast and Dance lack a climactic moment half way through to split it into multiple seasons. While there's enough material to create two or three seasons out of those books, they would make for bad TV. Like for example, how would you split Dany up into three seasons? Her chapters in Dance are already bloated enough. Same for Tyrion, and then there's characters with not enough material for that many seasons, like Sansa, Arya, and Bran

[@jdanielcoronel2214]

@@jaimelannister1797 I agree, I think 3 seasons is too much. But 2 seasons would've been great. I would've loved to see Victarion, book Euron, Arianne, Quentyn, Cersei slowly destroying House Lannister, etc.

[@Damon242]

To prove a point, I stacked all the books next to each other and showed a friend - dividing the first four from the last two (with an obvious difference in size) and explaining that they only took ideas from these rather than followed their stories A few examples of the differences between the novels and the series was sufficient to drive the point home; they chose to not use this material, they didn’t run out of it

[@rolandluth2098]

@@jdanielcoronel2214 and the fucking amazing winterfell plot!

[@michaelmilian4336]

“After all, who here has a better story than Bran?” *LITERALLY BRAN BEING NONEXISTENT IN SEASON 5*

[@plutohendrix2941]

seriously lmfao i watched GOT for the first time last month and my most recurring thought throughout the series was “where and what the fuck is going on with bran and rickon”

[@szabok1999]

@@plutohendrix2941 With Rickon, apparently absolutely nothing.

[@zefferss]

he he he, ya hear what I said T? I said Bran the broken, like d and d's deal with Lucasfilm. he he he.

[@badass0510]

The funny thing is that Bran actually becomes interesting in book 5, yet, they cut him out of the season.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@badass0510 D&D for some reason try to change the history of GOT

[@cullermann2]

No shit they didn't know what to do with Stannis. They basically ruined his character and turned him into a semi-villain, because they didn't like his character in the books.

[@wozerbozer4050]

@@williamshelton4318 ikr even with the bad writing the actor of stannis still carried the shitty role

[@JackoBanon1]

@@wozerbozer4050 The actor of Stannis couldn't care much less for his role and only did it for the money. Yet he still did an awesome job as Stannis that was very close to the books even though neither he nor the show makers cared about this character at all.

[@garikavagyan3924]

@@JackoBanon1 I'm pretty sure most actors work for money.

[@JackoBanon1]

@@garikavagyan3924 Yeah, but actors like Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington lived and loved their roles. (Kit Harington actually committed himself to a psychiatric clinic shortly after the show ended because he couldn't get over it) On the other side there were actors like Stephan Dillane (Stannis) who didn't understand the show, the story or even their own characters and just wanted it to end for them as soon as possible. And yet he pulled off an amazing depiction of book Stannis even though he didn't know the books and didn't know what's going on.

[@garikavagyan3924]

@@JackoBanon1 Emilia and Kit were young and inexperienced actors when they got the role. GOT was a life changing show for them in many ways so their commitment to the show is understandable. Huge respect to Emilia for her work during the illness. I partly agree with you about Stannis and Dillane. I think he pulled of the best that's possible from that script. His Stannis is more or less truthful to the books only because of the actor and not that lazy writing. In my opinion this shows his commitment to the show. D&D showed their "love" to Stannis (as a character) in season 5. To me Stannis is one of the most interesting and complex characters in the books, so it's a really shame what D&D and their writing did to him. Fans and Dillane deserved much more.

[@luke8801]

Removing Jeyne Poole, writing Littlefinger into a hole by not continuing with the Alayne plot, which was literally started in Season 4 then washed away in Season 5, removing Arianne, Oakheart and Quentyn, deviating Jaime's Riverlands plot, removing Young Griff, Varys' motive and Crow's Eye Euron, killing Barristan, removing Davos' trip to White Harbour and North Remembers subplot, ruining Loras Tyrell and removing the Kettleblacks. It all started in Season 5, which is why Season 4 is the last good season. Season 5 could have been incredible with the introduction of so many new great plots, instead the world building was ruined and the show was doomed.

[@evoke97]

and mance rayder

[@sabersroommate8293]

All for Star Wars because two douche bags had inflated egos.

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

D&D got far too carried away with trimming what they perceived as the fat off the story, but then they weren’t left with anything to use and had to cut loads of corners. Bad planning, and poor writing. They essentially sabotaged their own success; so many fans of the books could infer satisfying character arcs and plot threads from the clues George has left, yet they utterly lacked imagination.

[@alg7115]

They definitely should of had 12 seasons and kept alot of the book plots expecially the northern and vale ones. Ultimately though its George that should take alot of the blame for not finishing the Fucking books. And the story not having a clear path to the end.

[@quinnmichaelson6793]

Hell they could have simply had theon rescue Rickon, who really doesn't matter, and that would be his redemption. Jeyne pool pretends to be Arya, not Sansa, because Sansa is a fugitive wanted for murder of Joffrey, and would invoke the Lannisters wrath. Little finger made advances on Sansa and in the books at least offered to marry her (before becoming a lord of the vale), and also somewhat contradictory treats her as a daughter. He is aware Cat (former love interest) was killed by the Boltons and he knows Ramsey is violent, putting Sansa in that risky environment where she could likely die is a waste of, for lack of better terms, an asset. Whether as a love interest, a student, or a political pawn. The Boltons did not help his ambitions at all. If he wanted to trade in Sansa, the best option by far would be sending her to the lannisters for the royal reward.

[@duhman3649]

0:10 That scene where Shireen asks Stannis if he's ashamed of her to which he responds by telling her about all the lengths he went to to save her life from the grayscale disease was a great scene. Stannis never would've burned his daughter alive, hate how they ended his story.

[@BLANK-kq8wv]

No he absolutely would've but it would matter, have affect direct or indirect and be much more emotional

[@adamweisshaup]

​@@BLANK-kq8wv Nope. She'll be burnt but by a maniac. Stannis isn't that.

[@mukta4689]

​@@kc_h7hhe only sacrifices his men if they are going guilty of rape or something more heinous. After all stannis is lawfully neutral. "The good doesn't wash out the bad, the bad doesn't wash out the good."

[@davegibson79]

He totally would. He is lawful evil. To him, the one thing he values more than his daughter is restoring the rightful king to the realm, and the one thing he values more than that is protecting the realm from white walkers in his godlike mission as the Lord of Light. He needed Winterfell and with it the north to accomplish both his epic goals, and blood magic with the blood of kings is the only option he had. [In the books he has another captive of royal blood who escapes with deserters which adds to the compelling narrative, although its also one of the dullest parts of the books too, to be fair].

[@davegibson79]

@@mukta4689He's lawful evil. He burns his men who refuse to convert, even the loyal ones, and he kills his own brother with black magic because he wants his army. He just needs to be put into a corner where killing his daughter is his solution to returning to the divine path he sees himself on. He is Abraham, sacrificing his son for his God, but in Stannis' case he is misguided by not realising that in fact Jon is the chosen one

[@IsaacWhittakerDakin]

It amazes me that they split A Storm of Swords over two seasons and then thought they were being clever by putting Feast and Dance all into one season.

[@alainmg2362]

Fr? Season 6,7,8 hasn't occurred in the books?

[@IsaacWhittakerDakin]

@@alainmg2362 Seasons 6-8 is pretty much original content from D&D, though Season 5 is pretty much an in name only adaptation of Feast and Dance

[@connorbosley4431]

And they even left out some of the best bits, stoneheart, stannis' march, and davos and wyman manderly.

[@IsaacWhittakerDakin]

@@connorbosley4431 Victarion Greyjoy, Arianna and Quentyn Martell, Mance Rayder infiltrating Winterfell etc.

[@MyPrideFlag]

@@connorbosley4431 who was wyman?

[@MaxSio8]

The actor of Ser Barristan Selmy also expressed his displeasure about his characters death

[@ViscountAlexOfTheHorsePeople]

I imagine grandpa Joe had some strong words to say about it!

[@alexanderbarkle5040]

And then D&D made an example out of him by stating in a public interview, that actors arguing against their characters death just makes them want to kill the character more.

[@sanjoog47]

@@alexanderbarkle5040 Yeah i saw that and it’s so annoying

[@gfilmer7150]

@@sanjoog47 They’re so petty and should be removed from Hollywood

[@sleepless_160]

Having seen interviews with him, I truely belive that he didn't want his character to die because he wanted more money or screen time, but becuase he really saw how important his character was at this time of the story... I'm just now getting to read the books (I'm at ACOK atm), and I know Selmys secret in the book already. Having read some of Catelyns and Tyrions Chapters I know his appearance will be as epic as it will be impactful for the rest of the books...

[@holysecret2]

Game of Thrones was such a great show, shame it didn't continue past season 4.

[@johnjoseph6874]

Wow, what an original joke.

[@holysecret2]

@@johnjoseph6874 thank you

[@holysecret2]

@@jeremyfilliavertini2019 I politely disagree

[@Vario69]

Season 5 and onwards, also known as Play Of Chairs? Nah, S6 was great, and S5 and S7 still had some very powerful moments

[@adam_toddster5367]

@@Vario69 how could someone be so wrong

[@DieselNail]

I used to think Ser Barristan’s death meant something. That was a huge overestimation on D&D’s writing abilities. He was killed by non-important characters and for nothing

[@dwwsk8]

⁶⁶

[@zoeycalloway2220]

I read your comment and thought that you played dungeons and dragons 😂

[@collincaperton6718]

Have you seen the reason given in interviews his character was killed off because the actor had disagreements with how the show was going because he was a huge fan of the books.

[@kriskimber3366]

I love how barriston selmy left the kings guard. With confidence he told like 5 other kingsguard hed cut through them like butter, and they were in full plate armor. Yet, 6 or 7 sons of the harpy wearing cloth robes, using knives killed him? So insulting

[@JouerMaintenant-jz8ci]

Kingsgaurds were pussies though. Look at the bald guy who hid with Eli at the wall. In real life, fighting in alien territory creates a severe disadvantage and this is a prime case. Look at US and Vietnam. US is clearly better but they lost because it was an away game and sometimes that’s a huge obstacle

[@joeywhat98]

He’s still alive in my head and iirc, the books.

[@mughal_r9374]

Tbf he was old as fuck at the point

[@michaelsnook7666]

Bro that is bullshit. This is Not Star wars. If two ppl strike him at the same time he is dead.

[@oscarcastillo2377]

@@michaelsnook7666 but theres clear skill gaps that are mentioned for a reason and shouldn't be brushed over so casually. normal people with knives and obscured vision are not beating one of the best regarded swordsman in the 7 kingdoms, despite his older age. just an excuse to kill of an important character that backfired not the creators.

[@rahbeeuh]

Can we stop saying D&D ran out of book material when they chose to ignore said material and give us Cliff notes instead?

[@justcrapynames]

It’s actually both. They run out by season 5 but by then we were wetting the cliffnotes anyway

[@FIN791998]

@@justcrapynames by season 5? I might be mistaken but Im pretty sure there are some subplots from feast and dance that they left for season 6. The siege of Riverrun is the first one that comes in mind. In general Id say season 6 had still quite a few reference material to work with and it borrowed quite a few subplots, scenes and dialogue from the books. It was season 7 that they made entirely from scratch and it really shows. (Not like season 5 and 6 are very good but you can still somewhat feel it being held by the books and not completely crumble from D&D's fanfic... thats probably the best way to put that)

[@FIN791998]

Its something that has been bothering me too quite a bit. They still did have reference material for season 5 and 6 and they did use it quite a bit. For some reason though they tried to change the story quite a bit and it turned out the way it did. Not because there werent a source material to adapt but because it wasnt really adapted faithfuly and some storylines were just changed beyond recognition. What I find quite hilarious is that whenever I see someone mention really good scenes from these seasons... you slowly realise that all these things are the ones that are actually in the books. Sadly even some of the scenes that were actually adapted werent really that good and it felt like D&D missed the point of the original scene. Daznak's pit and Jons murder are the first two that come to mind.

[@rahbeeuh]

@@FIN791998 it's definitely something that's bothered me. I was waiting for Lady Stoneheart storyline to unfold or Young Griff but neither happened. Then again, I think the latter was s'pose to be given to Gendry? Not sure but somehow D&D managed to screw up adapting an outline of a wonderfully crafted story just to laugh it off and give us misplaced phone chargers, coffee cups and water bottles. Like WTEH???

[@rahbeeuh]

@@justcrapynames perhaps but they had no idea what they were doing. They even went as far as admitting it

[@jacobseed2123]

"It's like David and Dan didn't know what to do with Stannis" this quote says it all

[@ViscountAlexOfTheHorsePeople]

I guess they decided Davos would work with Jon later, so didn't want him like in the book, trying to make alliances with northern lords. Shame because they wasted a chance to show new locations and flesh out the north beyond Winterfell, making people care when it was to be overrun with white walkers.

[@ViscountAlexOfTheHorsePeople]

@Kenny McCormick It's not that he dies. It's that he hangs around doing nothing, instead of trying to make alliances, either with wildlings or northmen. In the book, Davos is supposedly killed, but is working on an alliance with Wyman Manderley to oust the Freys and Boltons.

[@ViscountAlexOfTheHorsePeople]

@Kenny McCormick Have you read the book? There are northmen colluding with Stannis through Davos. Obviously Stannis wouldn't be successful, as he isn't in show or book. If Stephen Dillane wanting to leave prompted D and D to write Stannis as moping around with his thumb up his arse, that's still on them. As for the wildlings, he badgers Jon, but did he ever speak to Tormund? Not enough fleshed out wildlings remained. Shouldn't have killed Rattleshirt at Hardhome, as he's important in the books (swapping with Mance). That could explain the Red woman leaving, when she realises a king was not killed and it was actually Rattleshirt.

[@bretonfou7046]

And to think we could have gotten the Grand Northern Conspiracy on screen *sigh*

[@bretonfou7046]

@Kenny McCormick The northeners would team up with Stannis because in the books the North actually remembers. Every house in the North hates the Boltons, many of them would join Stannis in a heartbeat just to avenge the Red Wedding.

[@georgechristman6920]

They did Stannis so dirty. His storyline in the books (the whole Stannis/Northerners vs Boltons) was so intriguing and with much potential.

[@gfilmer7150]

They did and basically gave his story to Jon Snow a season later which felt like retreading the same arc along and it felt like Fanfiction. The integrity of The North is ruined because of drama..

[@BamBamGT1]

And even with his diminished army, he shoud have been able to take the Bolton's, they weren't established yet like they were in the later season. They had no support yet in the North. Writers just gave them a ridiculusly large army that made no sense just to mop up Stannis.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@BamBamGT1 So stupid. They hated Stannis and giving that arc to Jon is basically retreading

[@georgechristman6920]

@@BamBamGT1 In the show it just doesn't make sense that seemingly none of the noble northern houses rose up against the Boltons until the moment of their defeat. The northern lords in the show came out as opportunistic rats flying wherever the wind blows. So much for the whole "The North Remembers" thing.

[@Damon242]

@@BamBamGT1 let’s not also forget that Stannis sacrificed everything to clear the heavy snow and that he had no choice but to attack then and there before winter...only for it to completely vanish the next season and never return, even during “winter” (or whatever they called that dusting of snow only in the north)

[@perry4799]

I always hated that people say season 8 killed the show. Season 4 was the last season that felt like Game of Thrones and 5, 6, and 7 are as lame as 8 they just don't have the expectation of closing the series on them.

[@AnaGamer19]

Right. But at the very least season 6 was fun to watch... season 5? 7?...8? jesus...

[@Matt-qp8zt]

season 1,2,3,4 are masterpiece 5,6 are good and 7,8 are shit

[@martinkaradjov6153]

@@Matt-qp8zt 5 is sh*t They butchered Stannis character, Tyrion was also kinda lame, season 6 had some great moments but thats all, GOT is s 1-4

[@Al-ji4gd]

@@Matt-qp8zt Season 5 and 6 are shit, bro, barely better than 7 & 8...

[@firstlast9846]

People who say Season 8 killed the show are jumping on a bandwagon.. this shit was bad since Season 5 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@frankvandorp9732]

Thank you for pointing out that "you are the few, we are the many" line. It gets often overlooked, but it's one of my greatest annoyances how Cersei can just solve a political problem that got completely out of hand by blowing up a bunch of people. King's Landing used to be this interesting place full of factions and characters with its cutthroat politics. In season 7 and 8, King's Landing is no longer a city, but just a decor for the scenes of Cersei, Qyburn, Euron and the Mountain.

[@ontasbulent5709]

Season 5 is the beginning of the end for the show although 5 & 6 still have great moments they have equally as bad stuff like Dorne, Braavos, Littlefinger putting himself into a corner for no reason and my man Stannis getting massacred

[@ontasbulent5709]

@Fabian Kirchgessner it’s not bad but there is an obvious decline and some of the choices here doom the later seasons

[@leone.6190]

@@ontasbulent5709 Ne, wie kann man das als okay betrachten? Nenn mir eine logische Entscheidung in dieser Staffel.

[@ontasbulent5709]

@@leone.6190 Hardhome war sehr gut und Mance Rayder seine Story kam zu einem guten Ende.

[@leone.6190]

@@ontasbulent5709 hardhome war visuell gut gemacht. (Da konnte man aber rein Inhaltlich nicht viel falsch machen...) Bei Mance Rayder kann ich nicht zustimmen, da ich die Bücher gelesen hab. :D (was übrigens sehr zu empfehlen ist. Wesentlich spannender.)

[@ontasbulent5709]

@@leone.6190 Ich habe die Bücher ja nicht gelesen aber werde es sicher mal machen. Staffel 5 is nicht wirklich gut aber es ist auch noch nicht ganz schlecht. Es ist einfach langweilig aber es hat noch nicht die Charaktere zerstört und teleportation eingeführt. Deshalb würde ich sagen es ist ok.

[@rociomiranda5684]

Tywin's death was the peak of the show. It all began to crumble from there.

[@hawkins347]

@@jeremyfilliavertini2019 Good cinematography and good writing are two different things.

[@frankvandorp9732]

Although leaving out the Tysha revelation just before that scene was a major blunder. That's what caused Tyrion to become a lot darker and more ruthless in subsequent books. In the show, however, Tyrion became a lobotomized lackey and morality pet of Daenerys without any discernable personality.

[@lisandromariani7907]

@@frankvandorp9732 What happened with that Tysha revelation? I didn't read the books

[@frankvandorp9732]

@@lisandromariani7907 Tyrion told Bronn in the first season of GoT that he once fell in love with a girl and married her, only to have Jaime later tell him that this girl was just a whore and Jaime had arranged the whole thing so his brother could get laid. Tywin then had his entire guard rape the girl and made Tyrion watch. This is also in the books. But in the books, right after Tyrion gets liberated by Jaime after Oberyn lost to the Mountain, Jaime admits to Tyrion that this "whore", Tysha, never was a whore at all, that that was something Tywin had forced him to make up. Instead, she really loved Tyrion and wanted to be his wife, and the whole "she was a whore" story was a plot by Tywin to prevent his son from marrying a peasant girl. In the books, when Jaime admits the truth to Tyrion, this is what causes Tyrion to search out Tywin and murder him. And he pulls the trigger of the crossbow because Tywin calls Tysha a whore, not Shae. After Tyrion leaves Westeros, he is consumed by his lust for revenge against his family for what they did to him and Tysha, specifically Cersei and Jaime, and he becomes a much darker character.

[@leonpaelinck]

@@frankvandorp9732 exaclty now the only reason he kills Tywin is because he has nothing to lose.

[@rowananderson8318]

Clicked on this video quicker than d&d signed a Netflix deal

[@bronislavmily9735]

Impossible

[@pierrelhommet1118]

Is it possible to learn this power ?

[@MohiyuddinShaikh]

ROFL 😂😂😂😂

[@Batman_the_bad_man]

Ouff

[@neptoon5954]

quicker than d&d got assigned to another adaptation as punishment

[@PistachioDean]

Me before season 5: Wow, Sansa is going to go from whiny teenager, to full on political player in the Eyrie with Baelish, while literally wearing her dead Aunt's clothes. Me after season 5: *sigh* I was genuinely interested in Sansa's character, and while I'm happy where she ended up, it was really disappointing seeing how she got there.

[@Samaru163]

This was also the season where Martin's themes of pursuing revenge leading to a life of pain and bloodshead started to get ignored. Brienne is a good example of this: she gets to kill Stannis at the end of season 5, and then in the beginning of season 6, she rescues Sansa as well, thus suffering no consequences for choosing vengeance over her vows. The same happens with Dorne: The Sand Snakes and Elaria Sand kill Marcella, then in the beginning of season 6, they kill more members of House Martell and suffer no consequences.

[@davidlewis5312]

I had a problem with that. There is no price paid for Brienne ever for choosing her blood debt over Sansa's safety Ditto Arya and the Faceless, Arya and the Freys

[@johnwayne1069]

Woke character's, strong female leads can't be killed 💁💁

[@SP-cp3qu]

good point!

[@danvocals123]

Brienne is maybe the worst bastardization of any of the book plots. She gets none of her good parts and everything they wrote betrayed her character

[@stevendchu]

@@johnwayne1069 Olenna dies, Cersei dies, Margaery dies, Catelyn dies, DANY dies, all the Dorne girls die...... but ok sure complain about Brienne

[@lv83bloodknight]

Season 5 was when the cracks started to show.

[@awi1316]

there were warning signs from the beginning, like them making Catelyn into a supporting character

[@warmike]

@@awi1316 and the Talisa plot

[@dennisreynolds1341]

No it was season 4. The show started getting mediocre since season 4. Don't forget Arya's awful, "Nothing is nothing" shit. The only good scenes in Season 4 were the hounds chicken and Tyrion at the trial. Apart from that, the show really flopped. They added so much more filler (granted the hounds chicken is filler but it was good in on its own). They wasted so much important screentime with irrelevant shit like Tyrion talking to Jaime before the red viper vs mountain fight, talking about their cousin who killed beetles. Like what the fuck?? They could have reminded the audience about Tyrion's wife, briefly mentioned in season 1, and allowed us to know that 1 - she was still on Tyrions mind, and 2 - it's a good set up and reminder for when Jaime tells Tyrion it was all a sham at the end. BUT that never happened in the show. None of it. Such wasted character material.

[@thelaurinshow]

@@dennisreynolds1341 season 4 was literally the best season of Game of Thrones

[@szabok1999]

@@dennisreynolds1341 I agree. That season had great things but also a lot of time filler. I would still say it was very good.

[@LukasKellett1988]

The thing that i found most unforgiving in this season is the fact that Book Stannis,, in any way shape or form, would even contemplate sacrificing his daughter. He truly loves her and from the third book onwards is highly skeptical of the Malisandre and her religion. Also the Barristan death is ridiculous.

[@dandaman62]

You know, it has since been confirmed in James Hibberd's book that Stannis burning Shereen is something that will happen in the books. It was one of the 3 things George told D&D (along with Hold the Door and King Bran). Not just Shereen being burned, but specifically Stannis doing it.

[@JackoBanon1]

@@dandaman62 Yeah, but in the books it probably happend after Stannis' victory against the Boltons. (In the books Shireen, her mother and Melisandre are still at the wall while Stannis went out to fight the Boltons on his own) It will probably be Stannis against the White Walkers at the wall with a far inferior army and after Stannis sees that he has no chance against the White Walkers Melisandre will tell him that his only chance for victory will be to sacrificy his own blood. And even though he will burn his own daugther he will still die with his army trying to protect the wall and mankind against the White Walkers. In the books he basically burns his daugther for good weather because Ramsay and 20 good men were enough to destroy his army.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@dandaman62 If so, the execution still sucked. They needed to do more with the character.

[@otto_jk]

@@dandaman62 one conspiracy theory is that GRRM lied to Dumb and Dumber because he hated the show and didn't want it to spoil his books

[@Amaru19]

I don't understand you Shireen-burning deniers. Of course he loves her, that's... the entire point of sacrifice.

[@satannis7966]

Most of all sorry for Stannis. David and Den did not value the character from the very beginning. And in all the episodes where they were involved in writing the script, Stas looked like a typical cardboard villain. And only a few scenes written by Kogman followed the canon at least a little. Stephen Dillane himself played brilliantly, conveying all the complexity and inner conflict of his character. Some other actor could interpret this image more simply, confining himself to the hypostasis of a stern warrior and not noticing Stannis' hidden vulnerability. Dillane found the perfect balance between determination and vulnerability of this hero. Moreover, he shows both very expressively and subtly ..

[@scottnewton9370]

I concur , he performed admirably

[@toby1061]

No, I disagree, Stannis’s death by Brienne was idiotic, not only does Brienne not serve Renly, but also he shouldn’t have even been desperate, he could have spent the first few episodes leaving Castle Black and gaining support of the North by fighting off the Iron Born which is what he did in the books, not only did they make Stannis a fanatic and a man manipulated by Melisandre, but in the books he is using Melisandre to gain power, he helps the North, because he wants to help the people of his Kingdom. Stannis as a character was completely destroyed after the battle of the Blackwater, because D&D didn’t like Stannis for some reason, honestly they made Renly such a likable character, but he isn’t, and Stannis wasn’t this evil fanatic who just pushes for winning the Throne. Honestly Stannis was destroyed, and his death and defeat was just a bigger insult.

[@Ben-fk9ey]

It's also idiotic because Brienne got to have her cake and eat it. She was meant to wait for Sansa to light the candle and rescue her, like she swore to Caetlyn she would protect ect her children. Instead she leaves her post to go get her personal vengeance against Stannis for killing Renly. When this happens Sansa lights the candle but Brienne is nowhere to be seen so her and Theon go it alone and nearly die. So Brienne gets to somehow kill Stannis and then find Sansa and Theon and save them from some Bolton's who tracked them down I think? Just shitty writing. An actual impact would have been to maybe leave Podrick looking for the candle in the tower, have him to go and find Sansa and Theon only to be mortally wounded defending them. Brienne finds them, kills the remaining Boltons only for Podrick to die in her hands because she didn't do her duty and forsook her oath for her own selfish revenge.

[@Lohanujuan]

@@Ben-fk9ey I like how most people with more than a couple minutes can easily come up with a solution that’s better than what the writers did

[@riccardoalcaro8483]

You’re right. the killing of Stannis for the sake of Renly shouldn’t be important any longer to Brienne at this stage, but the writers didn’t give a fuck about how the characters developed

[@michaelsalmon9832]

It was just done stupidly and lazily, like they just skipped a bunch of steps for the same payoff like in got season 8, where it’s just sloppy and rushed

[@orssidia]

@@Ben-fk9ey damn that plot point is so good given Brienne’s fixation with duty. Never thought of that before

[@VladimirPackard]

Imagine going from splitting Storm of Swords (Book 3) into 2 whole seasons to ensure to adapt it well enough, and then adapting all of Feast for Crows (Book 4) and Dance with Dragons (Book 5) into one season and cutting out all the good stuff lmao that's so bad

[@russman3787]

To be fair, feast and dance are chronologically happening at the same time (more or less).

[@henrimentrup9105]

The saddest thing is that they hadn't even run out of books at this point. They just decided to do feast and dance in a single season, leaving out a lot of subplots while absolutely butchering what remained (with some small exeptions).

[@mr.plaguedoc9284]

I was really upset when they didn't even mention the pink letter plot of Stannis before the battle of Winterfell.

[@GeronimoPlaz]

I think D&D secretly got the $250M deal from Netflix during season 3. They jammed the next two books into s4, then proceeded to write the show as poorly as possible at the behest of Netflix. It's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with for S8 lol. It was a move by Netflix to cost their main competition billions of dollars, which S8's quality absolutely cost HBO in the end, all said and done, considering lost potential profits.

[@FrostReave]

@@GeronimoPlaz Netflix has countless competitors and they don’t have the money to throw around to sabotage other successful platforms. D&D seemed to just be done with the series. They were burnt out and had other projects that interesting them more and they had nearly caught up to the books. And instead of doing the sane thing of convincing their higher ups to put the show on Hiatus they instead decided to half ass everything and when the series started tanking they decided they didn’t want to come back to a uphill battle and just burned through it as quick as possible.

[@bendover2649]

I can sympathise somewhat, being that Feast and Dance increased the complexity of the story immensely, well beyond what a TV show could reasonably adapt, D&D's failing being that they couldn't identify what aspects of the story they had to preserve in order for it to not completely fall apart. ...on the other hand, ASOS was split into two seasons, with Season 4 being dedicated to the last third or so of the books. So it was probably the first sign of many that the story was being rushed to the finish line in 8 seasons instead of the 13 it was supposed to have.

[@zekaizerguy1181]

Saw Stannis in the Thumbnail, noticed nothing else. Read the title. I clicked on this bad boy faster than it takes to ride from King's Landing to Winterfell in Season 8

[@freezysyahz]

Huhuhu same 😂😭

[@Tibo-f8s]

The ride from Kingslanding to Winterfell? That's a bad comparison.

[@imightdeletethislater3810]

I thought i left GoT related content behind me for good after watching literally everything GoT related under the sun. Yet this drops. It appears my job is not finished.

[@zekaizerguy1181]

@@Tibo-f8s enlighten me

[@Tibo-f8s]

@@zekaizerguy1181 sorry, i didn't read that you were talking about Season 8 😂😂 Teleportation from KL to Winterfell

[@sakei-kun3090]

Last time I was this early Robert was still enjoying his time with Bessie

[@laurocoman]

And her... assets.

[@gautamjuyal]

And her wit.

[@Batman_the_bad_man]

He was still winning against boars.

[@thepaperninja3123]

Give me something for the pain and let me die

[@ankitbhandari7199]

Thank the gods for Bessie...

[@str.77]

Indeed, Cersei's taking the throne should have met with much more resistance given that she had just blown up half the city and had no right to rule to begin with. There could have been a montage of resistance being crushed, maybe something like an oath of allegiance being forced on everybody.

[@calebbonney4193]

Can't forget that she blew up the center of the religious faith of Westeros. There's not a house in Westeros (not counting old God worshipping houses) who'd forgive that. She should have secured house Lannisters extinction in that moment.

[@str.77]

@@calebbonney4193 Indeed, and she blew up part of her family in the process anyway.

[@phnargg]

For me, S5 is where the story’s stakes and consequences start to fall apart, even at the micro level. Earlier seasons were so realistic, there was tension in a stand-off with just a single enemy. Like in real life, anyone with a weapon could potentially kill you. Starting in S5, the fighting becomes more like a Hollywood action movie. It’s where things start to happen for no real reason other than plot convenience. Characters are saved by random events, not things that were set-up properly. Like, say a character is lying prone on the ground, an enemy has a weapon pointed at them- when suddenly, the enemy has a sword through their face. Oh, turns out an ally killed the enemy from behind. Cool. And they pull this trick like maybe 5 times? Throughout the series. (I think the first one is with Jaimie and Bronn in Dorne) Or like in Essos, a random guard unshackles Tyrion in the fighting pits. Why? Or when the Sand Snake girl poisons Bronn, oh no! But then she gives him the antidote right after, so it’s ok. Why? (Other than to let the audience know about the poison) Surprise! A character we haven’t seen in a while shows up just in time to save a character from enemies. And so on.

[@Bigkingmonster408]

Wow, imagining Ser Barristan dying instead of Misande would have been so hard to watch. I never cared that Misande died tbh.

[@THEINFERNOKID]

I don't think anyone did.

[@MollyFC]

She was too boring of a character. Oh wow a yes man character with no personality died! So sad.

[@brokeguy5607]

She just had no character at all. Just a maid, no depth of character. Only thing she did best was announcing self-entitled Titles for Danny and even that was boring as hell.

[@scottnewton9370]

She was eye candy but I always saw her as one of the valentine family from Hollyoaks

[@JackoBanon1]

Her role in the show was obviously not very deep and not very diffucult to play. But she was one of Daenerys closest friends after all. That still no compensation for what they did to Barristan Selmy but Melissandre was very important to Daenerys, too.

[@jamesjameson7384]

They ran out of books after season 4? Season 4 ended at the end of a storm of swords. There were 2 full books left lmao

[@lluewhyn]

There's maybe what, 20% of A Feast for Crows in the series? Brienne's part is almost completely different, and she's one of the main characters from that book.

[@frankvandorp9732]

Yeah, it is more accurate to say that season 5 was the point where they decided to ignore the books and write their own fanfic. And it was terrible, in my opinion the worst season apart from season 8.

[@Blood0cean]

@@blaubeer8039 that point was made by the show runners or their handlers which is why ppl always say that. Everyone kept thinking s4 was the last of the books adaptation and s5 is now completely fresh territory. Instead it's some fan fiction of the horrendous kind.

[@SuperChunk19]

Those two books though were all mostly buildup and the two fuck wits in charge were too impatient for two seasons of buildup, even though that's what made the early s seasons good

[@ontasbulent5709]

RIP Stannis Baratheon the one true king of the seven kingdoms and protector of the realm King of the andals and the first man Defender of Storm‘s end and conquer of Dragonstone. You deserved better

[@pokemontas8025]

nah he boring

[@confused4971]

Stannis the god. damn. Mannis.

[@gfilmer7150]

They ruined his character in one of the most contrived plot turns of the series. They gave his story to Jon in Season 6. I hate this Season so much. It killed my favorite character and didn't include five other ones from the books. Long Live The King!

[@confused4971]

@@gfilmer7150 He really was my favorite character as well. I refuse to consider anything past Season 4 to be canon

[@gfilmer7150]

@@confused4971 Same. I did a rewrite in google sheets that basically changes everything after Season 4. To fit the scale of the story, I extended everything to 10 Seasons with 10 Episodes. I changed a lot of Stannis’ story to be more in line with the books.

[@vaporwave4880]

Jon executing Janos Slynt immediately leapt to mind as a great moment from this season.

[@megamovieman101]

Janos Slynt’s death was also pulled right from the books lol

[@vardiganxpl1698]

Sadly, Janos' death was only one of the few if not, the only good moment from that season

[@hayleyb2254]

Totally agree about Barristons death. Was the beginning of the end of the show. They also killed Mance Rayder off too early too.

[@nicbahtin4774]

At this point it makes sense for Danny to go crazy cause shes just mad at the writing.

[@Karen_Mkrtchyan_Horquri_Gandz]

D&D; okay we messed up the ending but is has been years and no one should care anymore This guy: The North Remembers

[@leonpaelinck]

you mean we messed up the second "half"

[@lydiapinnell1124]

For real 😂

[@Lexio3031]

When Tywin died was the peak of GOT for me, it’s all downhill from there. Feels like I missed an entire season, suddenly some of my favorite character’s IQ dropped

[@the_mia_mia]

Completely agree. There was a palpable decline in the quality with everything - dialogue, plots, character development and actions.

[@theladyprincess]

joffrey dying was the start of it, then the moment it was tywin’s turn the show dropped along with him

[@the_mia_mia]

@@theladyprincess I think Tyrion's trial and the trial by combat, meaning the stuff after Joffrey's death and upto tywin's death, was pretty good, no?

[@theladyprincess]

@@the_mia_mia oh yeah those were still pretty great, one of the standouts during that season

[@the_mia_mia]

@@theladyprincess 😭😭 oh the good days

[@HUNTERKILLER20001]

I very much disagree that Stannis's sacrifice of Shireen was satisfying. It was done for shock value and didn't need to happen. Doesn't happen in the books either, as Stannis leaves Shireen and his wife behind in Castle Black, with instructions for his men to make Shireen the heir to the Iron Throne, should he die.

[@atharvvir]

season 1-4 : GODLY ✨ season 5-6 : eh season 7-8 : there is no season 8 in ba sing se

[@anonymousperson8475]

The saddest thing is that they didn’t even run out of books yet. They had two more books worth at least 3 seasons! They just didn’t feel like adapting the Dornish or Ironborn plots, which negatively affected the Meereen plot as well. They also wanted to simplify the King’s Landing, Northern and Vale plots. For some reason they chose not to include fAegon or any of Brienne’s actual plot either. None of it makes any sense and I’m glad people are finally talking about seasons 5 and 6, as they are not that much better than season 7 even though they were praised by critics and ”fans” alike when they came out.

[@awi1316]

the Riverlands and Stormlands also kind of stopped existing

[@cinderluna]

This season wouldve been way more interesting if they chose to include the lady Stoneheart story

[@lluewhyn]

Removing fAegon (and with him Jon Connington) was one of their largest mistakes, IMO. They pitted Daenerys against Cersei, when the latter should have absolutely no support from the nobility OR the smallfolk, whereas Aegon is going to be extremely popular. They had a big conflict between Jon Snow being the "rightful heir" to Westeros, even though he flat out says he doesn't want the role (and this has happened before in Westeros's history!) as opposed to Aegon who wholeheartedly wants the throne. Varys's motivations make no sense in the story because of Aegon's removal. Jorah being given Jon Connington's greyscale was absolutely pointless, while Daenerys being given what will likely be Jon Connington's reactions to the city bells ringing was likewise nonsensical no matter how much D&D tried to justify it. They made lots of mistakes by omitting or combining certain characters, but fAegon was probably the worst.

[@pastlife960]

@@lluewhyn I’ve never realised that Jon Con attacking KL because he heard the bells makes complete sense.

[@lluewhyn]

@@pastlife960 Well, it may not specifically be attacking King's Landing, although it very well could be. It could also be Jon Connington *defending* King's Landing against Daenerys's troops (maybe he refuses to accept the city surrendering), or perhaps be set in an entirely different city altogether (although it probably is King's Landing). It basically boils down to him considering that His Greatest Failure was losing a battle because he didn't commit war crimes, and ringing of bells is his trauma-induced trigger reminder of that fact, which means "Hearing city bells ringing" = Time to commit war crimes as only hope of winning . How that plays out has a variety of options, but the important fact is that it won't be *Daenerys* snapping at the sound of bells.

[@lykastannis7662]

While reading the books, I get the feeling that King Stannis may very well be an endgame character. He died several seasons too prematurely and in the most bland way possible. I can only see him dying at the end of the series fighting off an army of white walkers with his flaming sword to save the world.

[@phantom_mist1726]

That would’ve been MUCH better than what we got. I’d much more believe he’d die protecting his daughter and fighting with his men to the end.

[@jtthomas7349]

This series might be the greatest "what could have been" in all of creative fiction.

[@DatPodolski]

Except we're lucky enough to be blessed with a proper, alternative ending when GRRM gets off his ass and actually finishes them. (At least we know it'll be good with the amount of time he has put into thinking about it).

[@MinoritiesRlazy]

@@DatPodolski hell never finish.

[@tricko8000]

Also Kentaro Miura's Berserk

[@mdraj5655]

I don't want to say it... But it this case he will die without finishing his work. Like the author of berserk who died at the age of 54 and he is 72....

[@poutsamouni5483]

@@mdraj5655 i doubt it

[@erikcarrillo7378]

Berristans death was insulting and even more so when you find out that the actor who plays him wrote a letter to the writers explaining why they should keep him and it annoyed them so they pretty much sped up the process.

[@nicholasbarker8596]

By season 5 they still had two massive books of source material left so saying that they "ran out" is a poor excuse

[@Divine_Chareka]

Season 5 - D&D sentence GoT to death Season 6 - D&D asks for the sword Season 7 - D&D swings the sword (a man who passes the sentence should swing the sword) Season 8 - D&D burns the dead show. Lest it might wake & haunt them as they travel to the kingdom of STAR WARS & far east to the continent of NETFLIX.

[@HappyMarshmallowGamingComedy]

Bruh 😂😂😂

[@deyoungyoung3059]

Good comment

[@ChrisTheDragon]

To netflix to write trash comedy,heared about that one?

[@samvarrow408]

Sounds better than those seasons anyway

[@frankie9772]

Yep, that’s pretty much what happened.

[@beerillo]

Imagine Arya using her no-one skills, Bran using his third eye for something useful and Sansa remembering the manipulation lessons Littlefinger taught her in the Vale. Imagine them all darkening and becoming something close to villains but super cool. Imagine George Martin taking this route in the books. Amazing, right? Keep imagining. Convince yourselves S5-8 are just a bad fanfic and Martin will actually finish the books. You're happy and everything's okay.

[@THEINFERNOKID]

But that's not how it went, we were betrayed because writers gave up and wanted to work on starwars lol

[@samuelfrias7124]

I'm sad because all of this will happen in my mind

[@beerillo]

@@THEINFERNOKID keep imagining😂 if you pretend it's real, truth can't hurt you

[@THEINFERNOKID]

@@beerillo sounds like some drunk or drug user that doesn't want to deal with their problems.

[@beerillo]

@@THEINFERNOKID you are close, I feel exposed

[@ryankelly8428]

Going from season 4 to 5 was absolutely jarring in terms of story telling. I found GoT not long before season 5 came out and was completely enthralled with the show, everything about it was so amazing and it seemed impossible a tv show could be this good and consistent. The hype for season 5 was as big as Harry fucking Potter, and then it dropped. I felt nothing. I couldn't understand why I so suddenly felt nothing about this show I was so incredibly passionate about. Then I clung on like an abused SO each season, holding onto the little bits of satisfactory storytelling that managed to eek through until finally the show died, getting horrifically more and more abusive until the very end. I'm still not over it.

[@vsGoliath96]

Fitting two books into season 5 was some pretty impressive foreshadowing for how D&D would get bored and cut the show 2 seasons early.

[@jokester3076]

Varys in the novels stayed behind in Westeros to wreck havoc on Cersei and the Lannister’s, The eunuch’s hidden agenda and true goals are revealed. Illyrio tells Tyrion that in the days before the mad king’s downfall, Elia Martell had entrusted Varys with smuggling her infant son Aegon out of the redkeep to safety, they swapped the princeling with an orphan boy to maintain the deception.

[@Seven_Leaf]

Season 5 of GoT is very similar to the 'Frog in slowly boiling water' experiment where a human's ability to spot crummy writing and plot holes is concerned. If you don't much pay attention to such things you wind up in S8 wondering what happened.

[@Asterix958]

I understood show goes downhill when I watched Season 5. Actually everyone with common sense understood that but majority of people believe mainstream media instead of what they watch. Actually we saw some shit episodes before season 5 as well. For instance, season 2-4 Daenerys story is terrible. Greyjoy's episodes also really bad especially their clothes are silly. These episodes were written by Writers not G. R. R. Martin. Therefore, everyone could understand show will be death if book material run out.

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

@@blaubeer8039 S5-S7, the naked Emperor enters the prison shower. S8, he picks it up.

[@GeronimoPlaz]

@@Fridaey13txhOktober wut

[@njahmoon89]

Basically the "game" of thrones stopped being interesting and everybody just waited for the white walkers vs. dragons starting this point.

[@freddiecawston2892]

"Reeeee! A vagina ghost that killed Renly vaguely looked like you" - says Brien as murders her actual liege lord Stannis out of petty revenge.

[@pokemontas8025]

not a vagina ghost now chile 😂😂

[@tomidrac9719]

Someone is salty

[@freddiecawston2892]

@@tomidrac9719 indeed...

[@tam6753]

@@rv2167 love your take on this!

[@gfilmer7150]

@@rv2167 How? Brienne is in The Riverlands and Stannis is in The North. By the time Brienne ever gets to The North, Stannis might be in Winterfell (Google The Night Lamp Theory)

[@shoelace.16]

Season 5 really felt like getting dragged through the snow to a slow, agonizing death. I actually don’t mind that the weather played such a big role in Stannis’s demise, because they alluded to it many times. But they didn’t actually show any of it. Anything that would have been interesting- seeing the men sneak off in the night, seeing Melissandre ride off and having a few lines giving insight into why. They show how she’s conflicted and disturbed after the loss, but she doesn’t say anything about it until season 6, but even then it’s just melancholy “woe is me.” I would have liked to see more of her contemplation of “I burned that little girl alive and it didn’t work, did I run away with ambition? How much suffering have I caused because of my ego rather than the lord’s actual will?” And I would have liked seeing more of Stannis’ conflict with sacrificing shireen. And with the mother too. Her reaction during it didn’t really make sense. It would have also given us a lot to see in the dynamic of stannis and his wife’s relationship which is obviously complicated. It would have been interesting to see shireen’s mother pushing for sacrificing her, with the motive of “finally what I gave you can be of use” since she repeatedly said “all I gave you was disease, disfiguration etc” (paraphrasing). But then having moments of sentiment, despite seeming disgusted by her own daughter. When she’s reassuring stannis right up until shireen is burning, she could have sounded more uneasy, more like she was reassuring herself more than anything, looking to stannis for reassurance, who is unresponsive. They could have done more to show how his unresponsiveness was resolve- gripping his sword, rigidity- rather than just stoicism. They have her switch to wanting to save her right when shireen calls for her instead of her father, which I don’t hate, but they make it feel unnatural. They could have shown her mom reassuring herself before with the thought that shireen didn’t even like her or love her, she loved her father and Davos. And hearing shireen call for her broke her out of that, zapping her resolve as she realized she is her mother. BUT NO. The same thing with Sansa’s rape scene. The issue with Dan and David is that the brutal heartbreaking scenes, they played up for the horror aspect- screaming and crying to disturb the audience. They completely miss that what made all the previous deaths or horrors so brutal was the emotional devastation on the characters. Sansa, who escaped such brutality and torture by the hairs on her neck, finally is cornered in her home and is helpless to stop it as she’s been sold by the only person she trusted. Stannis and his wife, and even his army, their resolve and loyalty, solidity, burned to ash along with shireen as they realize they’ve sacrificed their humanity and have destroyed what they were fighting to protect- their families and children. All the other sacrifices were hard but they had purpose still, but a little girl? Shireen, who everyone knew was sweet as can be, and unfairly locked away out of her mother’s shame? How are they any better than monsters? It’s those conflicts and emotional consequences that made early GOT’s harsh scenes so great. D&D made the mistake of thinking everyone loved GOT for the gore and sex when people really tolerated how over the top it was because of the characters and writing. Sorry for the long ramble, just many feelings about it lol

[@YvieT81]

I felt the sparrow movement was only there to make Cercei walk the walk of shame. After that they didn’t really know what to do with that storyline so in the end they just decided to have Cercei blow up the entire thing to basically literally kill off that storyline

[@Kandranos]

My theory on why Bran was not included in season 5: George RR Martin said in a Q and A Bran was the hardest to write, being in one of the most unique positions, being a cripple, a warg, and a child made him rather difficult to write. Since this is D&D's first season without raw source material to steal, they chose to omit the challenge rather than try to face it. Just my thought.

[@ontasbulent5709]

It’s actually fact because D&D said they wanted to limit the magical elements so more people from the general audience would watch it and it would be easier to make the show.

[@dominicgomez1140]

@@ontasbulent5709 yet the goofballs went ahead with an undead army and dragons. those lazy bastards

[@ontasbulent5709]

@@dominicgomez1140 and didn’t even use them well the whitewalkers could have been really interesting but were used as a generic bad guy army lead by evil general and the dragons were nothing more then spectacle instead of the nukes of GOT which could have opened moral questions for Dany which yes the show a bit explored but it was rushed

[@lluewhyn]

@@dominicgomez1140 Because they're mostly riffing on The Walking Dead at that point. Actual magic, like what Euron's likely to do in TWOW, is way more explicit and earth-shattering.

[@TheBarber5550]

But DnD didn't run out of source material. Season 4 basically ended at the end of A Storm of Swords, there were literally 2 more books worth of material to use. DnD simply have always been shit writers, seasons 1-4 were good because they were guided by the hand of GRRM.

[@dominiqueodom3099]

Stannis the Mannis deserved more better. The scene where he tells his daughter the story about how much he loved her,despite his outward appearance not always being friendly. That was a great scene and a great moment for Stannis. The writers didnt know what to do with him so they gave his storyline to Jon Snow.

[@heisenberg4659]

and tbh the battle of the bastards is cool and all but really overrated for me. There were times where Jon could've died more times that I could count but his plot armor saved the day, again. All of that for him just to end up in the Night's Watch again in the end lol. The show died when Stannis died.

[@danielamaris6367]

@@heisenberg4659 GOT have had plot armor in a bunch of characters since the beginning. Jon should’ve died in season 3 then lmao.

[@heisenberg4659]

@@danielamaris6367 Never really said that plot armor wasn’t there since the beginning. BOTB pissed me off cause Jon could have died more times than I could count within 20 minutes, even David Benioff said the he’s just plain lucky, a writer and show-runner said that.

[@BH-98]

I remember back in 2015/2016 when this season was considered the low point by everyone. Oh how naive we were.

[@boxes9]

5 may still be the worst season imo

[@someguyontheinternet9808]

I don't understand why they decided to stray so far from the books in Season 5. The plotline with Stannis, Jon, and Davos in the books is so cool, and they pretty much scrapped the whole thing.

[@thefilmwatcher1216]

Season 5 was entertaining and it had some awesome moments, like Jon recruiting the Wildlings, Tyrion finally meeting Daenerys, and the supposed death of the Hound. That said, the entire season felt like the writers asking one question: "What's the worst possible thing we can have happen to every single one of our characters?" So Cersei has to walk through rhe streets naked while being taunted, Sansa is abused, Stannis just becomes pathetic, Brienne sits around, Arya sits around blind, Jorah gets greyscale, Jaime saves his daughter only for her to immediately die, the Hound is thought to have died, Bran isn't there, Jon dies, and Shireen is burned at the freaking stake. The only people who are successful are Ramsay, who becomes an official Bolton, and Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who complete their mission, a mission that isn't even that interesting.

[@collincaperton6718]

Tbf Sansa being abused was like her only character trait since the moment she entered kingslanding

[@thefilmwatcher1216]

@@collincaperton6718 Yeah, but this season felt like they did more than usual. It made sense for the story and it led to some great payoff in Season 6, but that's just an observation I had.

[@collincaperton6718]

@thefilmwatcher1216 I mean other than her being raped which yes while being awful and traumatizing what else did the Boltons really do to her?

[@izkocineytv]

And don't forget all about dorne is just pathetic

[@vwgames49]

0:49 Because this was the fist season that George RR Martin was not involved in

[@henrywayne5724]

That's weird. I saw him credited as a co-executive producer

[@dandaman62]

@@henrywayne5724 he had that credit right up to the end, but it was really more of a courtesy. He had no actual involvement.

[@JackoBanon1]

@@henrywayne5724 At the end of season 4 GRRM & D&D had a big argument about the future of the show. The show runners didn't want to adapt the authors 'too complex' plotlines but to simplify and dumb down the story for 'a larger audience'. That's why the author left the production team after season 4. And that's why the writing and the dialogues became so bad starting with season 5.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@JackoBanon1 And the big argument was primarily centered on Lady Stoneheart and her presence in the story.

[@dr_volberg]

After finishing this video, I suddenly had the urge to re-watch seasons 1-4 :) And only 1-4

[@Thierce]

@@jeremyfilliavertini2019 from a writing pov its pretty shit tho

[@gfilmer7150]

@@jeremyfilliavertini2019 Stannis arc in the show is so disappointing compared to his arc in the book especially the march on Winterfell in book five

[@bigplayjayy]

"Yu wan' de good girl but yu need de bad poosey" best moment in season 5 for sure.

[@scottnewton9370]

Oi Sand get ready for Bronn snake

[@tomisenbugel6370]

You said D&D ran out of books after season 4, but they didn't. That's the worst part. Book 1 and 2 were 1 season, book 3 was split into 2 seasons. And then there were 2 books left that were massacred and mostly intnored and barely filled one season with it. They should have used so much more of the storylines from book 4 and 5

[@Logan-dk8of]

i love how Cersei blows up the great sept and probably killed thousands to tens of thousands of citizens in the process and no one cares, and also just declares herself the queen and everyone goes along with it

[@davegibson79]

Yeah, it's the Putin approach to power. Make a big enough display of death and destruction and everyone will just hand you the keys to the kingdom and be good sheep. Humans don't work like that. You kill their cousins and they come after you in force.

[@TheStranger-27]

I’ve been telling my friends for years season 4 was the last good season but they thought it was awesome till season 8 lmfao

[@jayoyo1001]

I agree with you.

[@rahulmenon9530]

I think season 6 was pretty awesome. Not in the level of 1st 4 seasons but still awesome

[@areswalker5647]

@@rahulmenon9530 i loved 1-4s, enjoyed 5-6s, endured 7s and hated 8s

[@Jordan-mq4wj]

I loved it up until season 7 & 8

[@TheStranger-27]

@@Jordan-mq4wj I agree at least it was watchable till then

[@vrxyoungeditor7846]

Stanis: i thought i would be king Melissande:that was when martin wrote the scenario

[@saltlakeatrocity9771]

Back when it was popular to bash season 8, I'd been pulling my hair out wondering how people hadn't noticed that the show had been equally terrible since the beginning of season 5. Season 8 was par for the course at that point.

[@scottnewton9370]

The shrinking of westeros to the size of the isle of man took the piss

[@Nicholascagesmandolin]

Yeah I remember everyone at work being mad at me because I just used to say 'it's gone pretty shit hasn't it?' everyone refused to accept it until season 8

[@PickledShark]

I mean, yeah, 5, and 6 weren’t good, but you have to be smoking something to say they’re as bad as 7 and especially 8.

[@theholyinquisition389]

I'd say another problem with season 5 is that D&D left out some fairly prominent characters in the earlier seasons which is now coming back to bite them. For instance the whole Sansa-Boltons thing happened because Jeyne Pool is missing from the show, who in the books is the one who is married off to Ramsay while disguised as Arya.

[@wirginiamobillio]

And she also escaped from the Boltons with Theon, just like Sansa in the show, so the show just replaced Jayne with Sansa

[@Galatea507]

D&D were petty and arrogant, and when Ser baristans actor spoked up, they killed him to punish him, questioning them. That's something cersi or Jeffery would do.

[@AmTrFilms]

Yup, eveything went downhill after season 4

[@reesespieces8173]

Thats just not true. Book fans are such fucking pathetic gatekeepers lol. Season 5 and 6 were the best show on television and it wasn't even close lmaooo

[@Fabi-es1xy]

@@reesespieces8173 no

[@AmTrFilms]

@@reesespieces8173 Did you even watch this video? He made no comment towards what happened in the books, yet still tore it down.

[@ontasbulent5709]

@@reesespieces8173 One word Dorne

[@skyworm8006]

@@reesespieces8173 Just because you liked something doesn't mean it was good. We have earlier seasons to compare so we can confidently say it was shit. I, and others, have been saying it was shit for years. I was confused as to why everyone was suddenly doing a 180 with season 8, when 7 was just as bad (if not worse) and 6, aside from a few eps and certain scenes, was also nearly as bad. I didn't even watch 8, just skimmed it, and barely forced myself to watch 7, because I knew exactly how it was going to be (dogshit). 5 was alright and enjoyable but noticeably lower quality writing and plot. This is when it starts to become silly and shallow (the writing) but obviously enjoyable cinematically and it still holds together unlike the seasons that come after which are among the worst big budget TV ever made. The last three seasons are practically totally divorced from the characters and storylines developed in the first 5. In reality the show ended a long time ago and was never finished. And no, I haven't read the books. Muh gatekeepers doesn't even make sense. It's weak deflection. Stop making words meaningless through improper use.

[@mattchew8mealey921]

I think the most infuriating part of the writing decline being blamed on "they ran out of books to adapt" was only because they chose to. They practically cut out all of the plots and stories regarding Form including everything going on with the sand snakes, the grand Dornish plan, Quentyn Martell, all the interesting bits of Myrcella. Everyone that happens just in Dorn was enough material to be it's own season without the rest of the books plots. There's so many interesting threads and characters introduced there. And then there's all the material cut from the Iron Islands, Young Griff, ect there was so much good stuff they went out of their way to cut out

[@RenegadeShepTheSpacer]

Stannis's arc was absolutely butchered and I'll hear no arguments to the contrary.

[@gfilmer7150]

I agree. It started out okay-ish but sucked after he left The Wall.

[@gunnariron797]

The worst thing of all is that, they didn't run out of plots, they just decided to ignore them and make their own

[@beckybrynolf962]

I'd disagree that DnD can't write dialogue as well as GRRM - they wrote Tywin's intro scene where he skins the deer. Really effective, economical dialogue that tells you everything about his character in a few lines. I would say DnD can't write dialogue as well as GRRM in the first two or three drafts. When they took the time, they wrote great original stuff. When they didn't take the time... Well...

[@hiphopotamus69]

GOT season 5 is the epitome of that meme “sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit”

[@extraplain2412]

I've been saying that the quality dropped from season 5 onwards. 8 was just the final nail in the coffin.

[@keanentregaskis987]

D&d literally said that brans arc wouldn’t have been cinematic enough😂. Like are you just going to not write about him and his pretty clear good cinematic arc

[@hawkins347]

Shows how much they know since Bran is a literal show-don't-tell exposition machine

[@sistersofthegeek5895]

As sad as it is... 2 years passed since the finale and we are all still here!

[@ithinknooneshome2451]

They didn’t run out of books after the fourth season. They just took everything from books five and six and dumbed it down because they didn’t want to add new characters.

[@ioanevans6763]

Man I love how you're still making GoT videos. I actually started watching it way later than I should have, so most people were already over it by the time I was becoming obsessed. I couldn't properly be a part of the hype because I started watching it after everyone was disappointed by the ending. So glad there are videos like this being made today to prolong my obsession, keep it up!

[@helafed]

2021 and i'm still not over this. Literally started reading the books a few weeks ago to wash away the sour flavor that the show has left me with

[@THEINFERNOKID]

Same mad, still maf asf how they ended it and I hope I stay mad about it, I'll forgive the writers maybe someday, but never forget or be surprised with their actions.

[@MollyFC]

I want TWOW dammit

[@brokeguy5607]

I'm skeptical about reading the books bcos of the possibility that Martin wont be able to finish the books.

[@helafed]

@@brokeguy5607 and imagine we’re all just stuck with D&D’s ending.. oh the horror

[@gfilmer7150]

This season was aweful

[@Nihoolious]

Its funny how even now Hardhome is the only thing I fondly remember from all of Season 5. So much of that season is forgettable except for the really bad parts.

[@iDeathMaximuMII]

One way I view my experience with Game of Thrones Season 1: Phenomenal Season 2: Great Season 3: Very Good Season 4: Phenomenal Season 5: Questionable but still kinda enjoyable so you forgive it Season 6: Fun to watch but a head scratcher on many things Season 7: Garbage Season 8: Thank god it's over

[@adanomic949]

I personally loved John's story in S5. Sure, nothing extremely exciting happens for a bit, but it feels like it's setting up a huge amount of conflict. That happens in this show from time to time. A lot of the plots ended up flopping down the line, but while it was happening, I couldnt get enough of LC Snow v. Stanis.

[@yohannessulistyo4025]

Season 5 is indeed where everything went downhill, just like Tyrion's last trial by combat. Jon Snow's death is actually quite a clever plot to free him from his Black oath using pre-established plot device that is Lord of Light's reviving power (which has been shown to be able to fully resurrect Beric Dondarion earlier). But, it is eventually rendered pointless in season 8, where he eventually has to return. Of course that resurrection plot is rather shallow and very predictable. Ever since season 5, forces suddenly massing without needing to assemble, fleets are instantly built and deployed, their numbers are up to writer's convenience. The horse drawing indeed became a random children pencil scribble starting from season 5.

[@valeria122]

Lolz I’m still wondering why didn’t I rage quit after what they did to Stannis ughh

[@Garvak]

The moment I saw the Bolton forces converging on Stannis I just turned it off. Didn’t bother finishing the episode for a couple weeks.

[@vitsobotka6268]

tbf Hardhome is one of my favourite moments from the whole series, it was so raw and unexpected and the way that episode ended, in just silence, was so good

[@MigligM]

I'm a book fan, the moment they killed Barristan Selmy on a random ambush in some random alley while he's still alive on the end of book five I just turned of my tv and never watched the show again for years. On the pandemic in 2021 I decided to watch it all, and man.. how they messed up everything.. Littlefinger giving Sansa away to Ramsey Snow/Bolton was so absurd that they should be arrested lol.

[@lordstinson8095]

Thank you. I never got why people were so surprised witnessing the terrible quality of season 8. D&D began to show their incompetence in writing back since season 5 itself. The writing has been nothing but abhorrent since then. I personally just kept watching the show out of curiosity of how it all pans out.

[@kaneslives]

I wanted Shireen to see the dragons.... Shireen: You’ve got rough skin like me! :) Drogon: :3 Dany/Stannis: ............ Wholesome.

[@melissablackwood]

And since Shireen and Gendry share a Targaryen great-grandmother, they could've been publicly recognized as Dany's relatives. She gave Gendry Storm's End strictly for being Robert's son, where she could've called him cousin in front of everyone.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@melissablackwood Her legitimizing Gendry gives him a stronger claim to The Throne then her and Jon

[@melissablackwood]

@@gfilmer7150 I've seen people argue that vs Dany taking the throne by conquest cancelling out Robert's heirs. I don't feel strongly either way, not that it matters now.

[@gfilmer7150]

@@melissablackwood Well Robert won the throne in a war. People say Cersei also won the throne but she stole it and pretended she was acting in the name of House Baratheon. So technically, Robert’s Dynasty was the most recent and last legitimate dynasty. When Daenerys takes the throne, Gendry has a claim as her cousin.

[@kashishkumar8374]

Whenever someone refers Game of Thrones or the final two books of ASOIAF series: P A I N

[@cluelessclown6562]

I recently discovered your channel. Fueling my rage for dumb and dumber. I love it! Also wanted to say that because of the 'no consequences' from any event post season 4 it makes the world feel really empty compared to season 1-4. Back then the world felt so real and alive. A real fantasy continent full of people with their own goals and ambitions. Unique personalities. Lots of noble families. Season 8 Bronn gets HighGarden. Like it makes me feel that's some abandoned castle and that everybody in the reach died after season 7 battle. Childish writing. Really wish someone remakes the series post season 4 after the books are out.

[@drdumpenstein4868]

I stopped watching GOT after the last episode of season 5. It didn't think it was bad, but i just stopped watching it after I found out that what happened to Jon Snow at the end of 5 wasn't "real". Thank goodness I did, because I wasn't "invested" in the show anymore when it ended up taking a dump. The genuine fear that main characters and protagonists were going to die, the highest stakes, no longer seemed to be part of the show.

[@THEINFERNOKID]

Sometimes I wish I never watched Game of thrones because of there betrayal in the last season to avoid the pain. I am still so badly disappointing in the ending even 2 years later, once again, a great series that was ended the worst way possible because of bad writing.