💨SUPERFAST💨 (More than 5.7x28mm) - Liberty Civil Defense 💣.357 Sig VS 9mm+P💣

Testing the Liberty Civil Defense in .357 Sig and the Liberty Ultralight in 9mm+P. Both cartridges use a 50 gr fragmenting hollow point and the 9mm+P is rated at 2,040 FPS while the .357 Sig is rated at 2,300 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...

[@GunSam]

I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?! I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo. The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).

[@iratezombiemann]

Paul Harrell did a great presentation on this where it performed really well on his "meat test" but it printed off center for his pistol. I personally think it's a solid pick for short barreled pistols because it will definitely perform even out of a 3" barrel. This stuff is LOUD though.

[@paulscountry456]

I met him at a gun show in Centralia here and what a cool guy , he had a huge assortment of pistols , nice ones.

[@Southernguitar74]

Yes it is LOUD. Great round, though.

[@GunSam]

One thing I should point out is lens distortion and parallax. The .357 Sig bullets were actually hitting above the steel target in such a way I could not see the leaves move. The bullets were impacting as high as the head on that silhouette but going left or right of it and the whole silhouette blocked my vision of leaves being impacted. Because the downrange camera is lower than the target and aiming upward, it appears to you guys that the bullets are impacting low. I rarely saw leaves move with the .357 Sig. This is why I have mentioned a few times about not doing the 75 yard drills anymore, because people try to 'educate' me after the fact of what I did wrong, and when I explain all this they act dumb about it, and I get annoyed.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

I've always enjoyed your longer range shooting, I don't have a problem with it because I understand camera perspective distortion. Is there a way to use a standard lens for the downrange camera, or is that an expense not justified? Thanks for the entertainment and useful education.

[@onpsxmember]

Maybe make an info-graphic illustrating this and you can reuse it in videos if you find it necessary.

[@rob6850]

I really like seeing the long range accuracy potential, personally

[@wastool]

No, we need those 75 yard shots. I know you can hit the target. Those shots tell us more about the ammo than your shooting. Like you routinely point out. Bullets with more momentum tend to be easier to hit with at range. If those had been Golddot, I'm guessing they would have all been on steel.

[@CrashRacknShoot]

​​@@exothermal.sprocketI'm not sure what you mean by "standard" lens.

[@codered7453]

I know that everyone is a huge fan of the .357 magnum (as I am too) and it does have an exceedingly high stopping percentage, but check out the video on SCHP Mark Coates, who was killed in the line of duty by Richard Blackburn. Blackburn was shot point blank 5 times by trooper Coates with a .357 magnum using 125 grain JHPs and Blackburn managed to return fire using a Freedom Arms .22 LR revolver and hit Coates in the armpit underneath his ballistic vest killing him, while Blackburn, despite being shot to pieces was sitting upright and conversing with the officers that arrived a few minutes later. Anomalies do happen and you just never know I guess. GunSam, you make great videos and 1st rate tests and comparisons and for that we thank you sir.

[@DEAMcN]

Great shooting and very interesting test. Interesting ammo as well, that stuff gets there so fast you can't hear it hit. Love the long distance shooting man! I do a lot of long shooting with pistols myself and they are far more accurate than we are lol. Than you sir for another awesome video.

[@charlesmudd9834]

★ Insane velocity ! 😮 Interesting results and good video, G.S. Thank you!

[@tedcollins4684]

Liberty ammo works as described in all calibers that I've seen. Thanks for testing.

[@VroomNBoom]

Did you have to re upload this video i seen it then went to look for it and it was gone lol glad to see it back i love tge 357 sig its sad to see firearm manufacturers dropping it from preduction i can only find used thats not a glock ... I dont like glocks weird fitment in my hands

[@GunSam]

No. It was published before, even though I didn't publish it. I often have a dozen videos done and unlisted, then I publish them. So I don't know how it got published when I didn't do it.

[@VroomNBoom]

KZbin is weird sometimes lol it was like 2 days ago... love the videos man great information

[@Southernguitar74]

I carry this ammo (9mm+p) in the summertime. Whether accidental or intentional, I believe it is perfect for a shorter barrel pistol in hot weather. For colder months I will stick with HST. Great video as always, Sam.

[@mikeg1433]

So it doesn’t perform well in lower temps?

[@InGlockWeTrust1]

@@mikeg1433lol some people pebbles in their noggins. Ok summer =light clothes and light bullet Winter = thicker clothing heavier bullet / best round on the market

[@Rarry]

In the most respectful manner, you should consider that HST or any other JHP round will likely start its intended expansion as soon as it encounters any resistance. It doesn't discriminate from tissue to more layers worn during lower temperatures. That being said, the 9mm+p civil defense from Liberty Ammunition out of a 4" inch barrel goes through soft armor without any issues then dumping its devastation. There's a video on Military Arms Channel here on YT you can go and review for yourself. Be safe out there

[@kc0lif]

both pretty good energy.

[@jonclark8155]

Those are some hot rounds. I’m glad you’re testing again. Btw good shooting.

[@GunSam]

I never stopped testing....

[@user-oy9zy4ds9m]

I carry the 10mm version I averaged almost 2600 fps and it’s a 60 grain so 20% more mass than the 9mm or 357 sig going even faster. It might not make it 12 inches but it’s going to dump 900 ft lbs of energy into the person in just the first several inches creating a soccer ball sized temporary stretch cavity. I think the attacker is definitely still going to go down I’m not worried lol

[@RichiesHouse]

Looks Extremely Powerful. This company is making incredible product .

[@jordanhorst6]

I'd like to see how they perform in natural pork gelatin since that's what the fbi uses for their tests. clear gel has been known to be tougher and have less depth of penetration. Still great vid! Your channel is one of the reasons .357sig has become a favorite caliber of mine. 👍

[@PBVader]

Glad to see you got that fustercluck unkerfuffled. Thats some wicked isht, just in time for Halloween.

[@GunSam]

I'm not sure what that means.

[@imeprezime1285]

​@@GunSamTrick or treat!

[@Guitarsgunsandghosts]

Liberty should get Lehigh defense to make 50 grain versions of their extreme penetrator bullets and load em to those velocities.

[@GunSam]

I doubt it could be done. I mean, maybe though. If I recall right I got 2,200 FPS with the 68 gr, but the bullet style is so different that I cannot tell how much bullet is in the case.

[@paulscountry456]

I could pack that M&P and feel real good, I just like that stout duty gun and retired cops I know carry theirs in 40 as it was issued to state patrol here.

[@2Aknight762]

That .357 sig printed a nice group....in the dirt.

[@LarryeWhite61]

I'd like to see you test the 38Special version of it. Comes in a 50grainner

[@watariovids1645]

I've shot some of the 10MM version of this stuff. It has a huge muzzleflash but otherwise is very mild for how much power its putting out, On paper it's kind of like that FK-BRNO 7.5 round except less weight and more speed.

[@jason200912]

9x25 dillon prob better Shoot a 9mm out of a 10mm case at same velocity and a way fatter bullet

[@aljosaskrabelj8412]

​@@jason200912 he is talking about superfast Liberty ammo out of 10mm. There is no Liberty ammo in 9x25 dillon.

[@jason200912]

@@aljosaskrabelj8412 patience. Soon it will come.

[@aljosaskrabelj8412]

@@jason200912 yeah right

[@CeltKnight]

Interesting. I won't be changing my preferred ammo anytime soon, but this is quite interesting. I have to wonder what they would do with a flat point, maybe a truncated cone or some such. With the right engineering they might get a round that goes in a little deeper then yaws like mad, maybe breaks into two large chunks like 55 gr 5.56 was (in)famous for. Dunno but I have to wonder.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

These would give a bad guy a really bad day.

[@onpsxmember]

Glad you're uploading since these yt-issues happened. How did you resolve the changed settings for the future? With 2500 fps, would there any hydraulic effects if it wasn't meant to fragment?

[@waynedavis7245]

If I remember correctly the 357sig was designed for 125 grain bullets. That's probably why it pretty much exploded .

[@ShastaBean]

Really appreciate your tests. Awesome to see an alternative set of variables! Not a criticism, just a thought. Might having 3" of gel before the MDF be a bit too much? I'm sure you put a good deal of consideration in choosing that distance...so it may be that I'm just curious why chose 3". W/O having the experience you do, I feel like I would have put it like 1 - 1.5" of gel before the "bone".

[@murrayjimm]

Still love the 357 sig, flat shooting, hard hitting, loads flawlessly.

[@duaneridings6591]

great videos Sam

[@jackbauer9077]

Thanks for the content!

[@adamsaylor7427]

This stuff seemed a little inaccurate in my M&P 2.0 4.25” 9mm, but I also wasn’t shooting that great on the day I tried it. I still have a box of it left. Seems like it’s ideal for home defense where overpenetration is risky or for concealed carry in more crowded places, so I’m holding onto this box and may get some more if I see it around

[@terrymax5340]

I carry this ammo in my self defense firearm . I also carry Fort Scott 10mm ammo in my 10mm firearm .

[@SuperD00D]

So 9mm is really not only matching but regularly being pushed past .40 energy levels in a freaking 9mm x 17mm case and people act like youmre crazy if you want more rhan 600 fpe from a 5” barrel from .40? I’ve seen some guys in forums and one actually make and safely test the hotrods on youtube and rhey worked fine. The two he did were a 135 grain that tested at 820 fpe in .49 s&w from a 6” aftermarket fully supported barrel in a glock 23 frame, and then he got like 580 fpe from the 180 gr. As we all know it’s impressive to even go above 480 fpe from .40 factory ammo on 180 gr. So he hit max factory energy and equaled that Underwood 135 gr with a 180 gr, and then got 820 fpe from .40 I mentioned this on Reddit and everyone lost their minds and said just get a 10mm. Thats all fine, but .40 needs love too. When people say “9mm caught up to .40 with modern projectiles” and then people rebutt it saying “Okay so only 9mm benefitted from these projectiles?” What the first person in this convo should really be saying is “9mm caught up to .40 with modern ammunition.” Because even though basically all calibers get the projectiles, companies hsve done a lot of engineering to somehow extract magic from 9mm. Getting over 500 fpe from such a small case while also not going over safe pressures. I think the reason .40 got abandoned is because 1)Designed to be softer shooting as one of the main req. 2)Early 1st gen Glock kabooms. 3).Overall low popularity so they don’t foresee enough sales if they make some very powerful .40 ammo

[@327Federal]

I still want a Liberty Defense 327 Federal Magnum

[@ultrafuel2559]

Similar ballistics to a 357 Sig with lighter bullets.

[@timrobinson6573]

That way you can have the worst of both worlds.

[@327Federal]

@@timrobinson6573 3000 FPS out of a handgun. Rifle Velocity out of a handgun.

[@lens7859]

I’ll stick with Gold Dots or HST I think

[@rangetime6779]

Very explosive bullets. Very fun test. Their fragments are just too small to penetrate. Could you please test Leigh Defense fracturing bullets? They break into larger pieces and might get more penetration. 380, 9mm and 40 would be great!

[@Mayhem6466]

There known to go through soft armor

[@KevinBalofh]

I feel like these kinda rounds are really good for exremity shots if you miss and hit a arm or leg instead of getting a hole your basiclly gonna blow a chuck off someone might not be as good in a torso but still nasty nasty stuff

[@mikeg1433]

Kinda crazy how much denim gets into the wound channel. I know it’s probably the least of urgent issues you would have after being shot but must be a complete mess for surgeons to deal with.

[@wastool]

That bullet philosophy didn't impress Micheal Lee Platt too much. 115 grain Silvertips in the 80s were designed to have a large rapid energy dump. Yeah, there's a lot of tissue damage, but when you're talking about an opponent who continues to walk and shoot on broken legs, having their pecs turned into hamburger isn't going to slow them down to much.

[@chrisgabbert658]

It 💥 and loud , it’s not shooting through the whole house.

[@christophernemeth421]

Since these reach the magical 2,200 fps of actual rifle rounds where energy truly matters, how do you think they compare to true rifle rounds?

[@JD-nc7yb]

It might be intresting to try these loads on water jugs. May need a poncho. LOL

[@joemorganeatmyshortschannel]

watched this most thw way through night it accidentally went up so continuing where i left off

[@fashtaki1]

I wonder if there ammo will give flame cut for revolvers, too light

[@GunSam]

Depends on projectile length. I have a feeling the bullet length is similar to 125 GR. Very light alloy and huge hollow cavity

[@KnifeNinjaEDC]

For me personally I’d prefer something with more penetration in my carry ammunition. But those very fast rounds wow

[@bluescatreimer]

Crazy fast! I will have to try some 357 Sig in my 1911. Do you remelt and reuse you gel blocks?

[@GunSam]

Yes, I reuse them about 10 times. And after that they retire and I just get at least one or two new ones a month. They can still be used so I save a lot of them, and use the browner ones for ammo that will really burn the gel. The ones I used here were probably 8 or 9 remelts so getting older.

[@bluescatreimer]

@@GunSam That's great thanks for the reply, do you have video on how you make them?

[@GunSam]

@@bluescatreimer I don't make the blocks, I buy them. I have one video how I recycle them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGHMnZugepp-ic0

[@edsal26]

You’re normally very impressive. Maybe tomorrow you will be again.this is some very fast ammo.

[@Mayhem6466]

There have been test of it going through level 3 body armor 9mm

[@MichaelKMorris]

Liberty ammo exceeds the elastic potential of human flesh - so the.pressure wave will stop your heart even with a miss. It acts more like rifle rounds...so penetration isn't quite so important.

[@MichaelKMorris]

@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 out of a 6" barrel, my .357 sig liberty hits 2650 fps...the same weight and speed as many .556 rounds.

[@TheJwalk1234]

@@MichaelKMorrisI sholl was about to say that’s 10-13 inch barrel AR level with same weight. Only difference is bullet construction

[@timrobinson6573]

Everyone knows 9mm +P+ is just as powerful as 357 SIG and 357 Magnum.

[@GunSam]

I know lol. I actually scored a 50 round box of 115 gr+P+ Federal 9BPLE. I plan to test them when they arrive, at some point.

[@kevinrichardson8859]

Lol..no it's not..stop kidding yourself

[@louv4437]

357 sig is 9mm daddy all day everyday

[@progunliberal]

I think if you got hit in the arm from the side with this stuff, it would be shockingly debilitating. The soft tissue damage in the first few inches would be massive.

[@dilfbag]

🤘 😁 🤘

[@drewmoore365]

Do you think the high velocity fragmenting ammo in the semi's would give similar percentage stopping power with the 357 sjhp

[@GunSam]

It's difficult to know without real comparisons of actual shootings, and if this was ever used it's going to be rare. If I recall, I read on their website that a person used it in a real situation and it worked as intended, but that doesn't really tell me much.

[@TheJwalk1234]

I mean unless you talking about someone 5’7 400 pounds. You ain’t that wide where this shit can’t touch your heart sideways, fat isn’t that tough lol

[@bobborlog1677]

What are those projectiles made out of and where can you get them to hand load

[@GunSam]

I have no idea about either of those questions.

[@timrobinson6573]

They are made of depleted uranium and you can't buy the projectiles unless you have a hazardous materials handling license.

[@milohoffman274]

Get your channel stuff worked out? Great.

[@GunSam]

Nope

[@keithgregory7937]

I picked up a Rossi M88 it has the firing pin on the hammer do you know if this is safe to carry fully loaded?

[@GunSam]

With it unloaded, dry fire it double action and keep your finger fully depressed. Now keep your eye on the hammer very carefully, now let off the trigger slowly and watch if the hammer kicks back out more as the trigger is released. If it kicks back out, it has a hammer block and is totally fine to carry fully loaded.

[@keithgregory7937]

@@GunSam Thanks The hammer did backout a bit Thank you sir.

[@kevinbalogh356]

That’s like a 55gr 556 out of a 10.3 barrel but in a actual handgun why wouldn’t spec ops and swat use these in a chassis with a extended magazine seems like it would do everything a ar15 can do and more

[@michaeldoe4805]

The keyword to answer your question would be the 'sectional density' Too little weight for the bore size. 223 projectile may have the same weight and velocity, but it is 22 caliber, instead of 38, which gives that projectile a higher sectional density, translates to higher penetration. The only way to simulate a rifle impact with a handgun is to go down to 22 caliber, even 17!! 22tcm, 22mag, 5.7x28 does this very well. I believe 5.7x28 developed originally for special forces anyways. For a concealed carry civilian, Winchester White box 115 grain jhp would do just fine...

[@timrobinson6573]

Because they aren't retarded and actually understand how things work instead of just watching KZbin videos.

[@fairnheight3673]

Is there 38 spl ammo like this?

[@GunSam]

Yes. If I recall it says 1,500 FPS. I think it's the same weight bullet.

[@tihnsorfjw]

That round has weak accuracy, it's a no-go for me for that reason. Accuracy seemed poor at 25 and 75 yards. I'll pass on this

[@philipfreeman72]

Kinda like 17 hmr .

[@arkjones]

You hit 2times with the 357sig

[@GunSam]

Salute' captain obvious lol. On the range from 225 feet away it's just the same smack sound on steel or dirt with this ammo.