Sajam Learns Skullgirls | Step 4: Day 1 Playing Online

[@kevinrivera9917]

6:18 Rando: Has 4 trillion+ ping GGPO: 5 frames of delay seems about right.

[@JameboHayabusa]

If it was a delay based arcsys game, it would be at least 12f delay lol

[@thegreekfiles]

Ngl, it is reassuring knowing I'm not the only one getting destroyed online

[@SupermanSajam]

In my case, it always happens because I generally only play experienced players who come to the stream to play. In this game, and TFH, I haven't really played anybody besides super experienced players.

[@aczinordp]

@@SupermanSajam Man, people really love to jump at the chance to play a beginner. You should start learning games with someone else or something

[@TyIerrr]

@@aczinordp it's good to play experienced players when you're learning so you can take in what they are doing to win. Losing to experienced players is much more beneficial than flailing around with someone else who doesn't know what they are doing.

[@aczinordp]

@@TyIerrr Also very true, but it seems like all he does during these streams is get rolled by people who have played way longer than him. He should play someone that's also learning every once and a while too

[@FOGSHIE]

Tyler William There’s a limit to how much you can learn facing someone much better. If you’re getting absolutely ass-blasted it can be difficult to parse through what you need to learn, especially when you’re new and don’t understand all the mechanics.

[@JacksonR2V]

As someone who’s always wanted to get into fighting games but usually gets stuck right around here, aka the getting your ass kicked repeatedly phase, it’s honestly really reassuring that even someone as well versed and experienced as yourself still has to go through this phase in order to learn a new game

[@readmore5888]

These learning series are great

[@Xandian]

I went online to Skull Girls last night. This was my exact experience.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

there are alot of vets playing online. that said don't let it get you down, they are willing to teach you if you ask em.

[@Xandian]

you have to get bodied to learn.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@Xandian i mean, you're gonna get bodied alot yeah.

[@SophistictaedDevil]

Tbh you're better off learning another game than SG unless you're cool with getting fucking obliterated. The 7+ year vets will be THRIVING off of all the new blood lmao

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@SophistictaedDevil again as i stated, yeah there's vets who will crush the new players but the community over all is very beginner friendly. People making guides and willing to train players in the discord. Hell we made a community wiki that's super handy (way more than that old srk one) and covers basically every little thing used in the game

[@LuluStarlight]

47:43 The song reference big band did is "You wa shock". kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmmlinWXed9jf8U

[@Next-xm2dh]

He's A Man Of Culture I See

[@bananawaver]

Banger

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

time to learn online. It's a fun time. Bonus: Mike Z just recently updated the game so Lobbies don't break as much. So things are going to be super solid for EVO

[@Magdala-lk2wv]

Dude, I played sg for a long time and can say with certainty it won't be "solid"

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@Magdala-lk2wv i've played SG for 7 years, also a long time. Lobbies breaking isn't super common but reducing the chances of any breaking happening is good in my eyes.

[@dekuskrub2154]

@@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi i was getting constant lobby crashes a week or two ago, but now everything seems to be running smoothly

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@dekuskrub2154 Yeah can't be too sure what was exactly causing you to have so many crashes outside of you trying to connect to someone that has unstable internet. But the recent patch has prevented some of the crashes like the ready up timer bugging out and such.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@Uchechi Godwin-Offor yeah i know i keep track of all the shit. alot happened over just a single year. SG is in a better place, Mike Z is gone, EVO is changing and overall the SG world championship is taking huge steps to helping the community.

[@coten]

"gonna start with jumping medium" at 35:35

[@viniciusraraujo]

Top 10 words said before disaster

[@RobSomeone]

"I'll do the opposite of jumping medium"

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Delay Based Devotee *270 ping* Name checks out.

[@MrAgentIncognito]

Good to see Majas still out here, sporting his classic team.

[@kholdkhaos64ray11]

6:20 That ping scared the shit outta me before it evened out. That was like almost 2 months worth of ping.

[@Marthroy9000]

When I first started playing I realized that I'd lab my first character so much that My second and third characters wouldn't level up as I played. Eventually it got to the point that I had to dhc into my other characters every time I got the hit to get more match time with them.

[@2la84me]

Ah Skullgirls. The launch party never stops!

[@grantgarbour]

On some rollback video I watched it definitely said do not set delay to 0 lmao, now I see why

[@orionfire1947]

Five seconds in and sajam picks goth double. A man of culture.

[@doesntno]

Thanks Sajam, you've helped me realize that even good players can get destroyed when starting out.

[@zoggere4226]

Heres how you delay in a rollback game Let the rollback go up to 3 delay After that set the input delay up to 2 ontop of that. Any more than that and dont play. At least thats my experience with melty, im not sure why chats saying always do 0 input delay when that leads to alot of teleporting.

[@MrAgentIncognito]

People hear "How much input delay do you want in your game" and will often respond with 0 because they don't know how a couple frames of input delay can help in a big way.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

you don't need to set it that high in Skullgirls 2 Frames is usually good enough. If you're in a match that has 300+ ping then yeah i guess 5 frames of delay but at that point you'd be better off playing a connection that's closer to you cause 5 frames of delay in SG can be enough to screw with some setups.

[@zoggere4226]

Ninja i said “up to” 3 frames of rollback and then after that “up to” 2 frames of delay, 3 rollback 2 input delay is the max thats playable imo

[@StarVarianth]

In SG you always do zero if you have a green connection. It’s more than playable

[@FOGSHIE]

Zoggere There’s no golden rule that applies to all connections. I’ve also heard, “Add 1 frame for every 100ms.”

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

The problem is not with losing. The problem is with these games being so inherently arcane, that I don't even have the tool set or knowledge to be able to figure out why or how I lost, so it's difficult to act upon. It's easier for you because you're a veteran already, you know what to look for and notice the lil' things one might not. It isn't like a game like Dark Souls or something where you might need to figure things out but there are only a few options to think of. The complexity is staggering in FGs.

[@2la84me]

Well. I mean, I understand where you are coming from but I kinda started my path down FGC stuff and learning the lingo AT Skullgirls and I dont feel like it was that bad. It was more fun if anything else getting learned and getting better. Like no one is saying "JUMP IN RIGHT NOW WITH EVERYTHING". There no shame in picking it up bit by bit. Like I didnt know what a OTG, Roman Cancel, a "Happy Birthday", Frame Data or any of that stuff is but I picked it up along the way while I was having fun. No one is saying hop online and get bodied, the base game content is really large and is more than enough for someone who doesnt want to get wild with the killers online. Like. Everyone starts somewhere and I think its weird to chalk up someones hard work of learning something is "Youre a veteran". Like yes of course, if I play a genre of a game of course I would pick things up fast in a game in the same genre. That argument doesn't hold water and it devalues people who cut their teeth on Skullgirls and owe so much of their FGC knowledge to it. If you REALLY want to learn it then I would always recommend Skullgirls to start at because the tutorial gets you learned best out of most I've seen but if you think that the scene is not for you then thats alright too. The people who make you feel that learning a game is impossible or hard to master just dont pay them any mind and enjoy the game on your own. THEN if you feel yourself cocky THEN you watch a video or hop online to get humbled and ask yourself if youre investing the time to get good or if youve had your fill and its time to bounce.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

@@2la84me Didn't mean to undermine anyone, just trying to be understood and bringing a different perspective. I've played the SG tutorial. Might dip into Tekken. Ugh, just thinking about it is daunting, oof. Glhf, thx for the kind words.

[@thedjokerWasTaken]

Just realized Fuzzy Snugs was Delay Based Devotee

[@orangesoda4535]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who ate dirt on their first day of online matches.

[@supervillianspotlight]

Bro i just started yesterday! perfect timing

[@arlexruiz]

1:11:00 Sajam Vs Future Sajam 41:35 that's yaya team... cool

[@icerres1067]

I saw triv get more roadrollers in 5 minutes than every tournament I watched combined.

[@wallacebarnes2391]

YES, more Skullgirls!!

[@StarVarianth]

Sajam if you have 2 meter and double on your team there’s no reset you have to respect

[@seangaines4369]

Sajam: what should the delay on? 0? I'll put one. Everyone saying 1? Ill put 2 lol

[@egrassa1480]

As you should, chat knows nothing

[@SomeBlackDude26]

Why was chat saying to lower the delay? Even on a good connection the lower delay will lead to more rollbacks right? Why not just leave it at 3f?

[@richieh7476]

I've never had issues with setting it to what the game suggests as long as the connection was consistent

[@SomeBlackDude26]

@@richieh7476 Maybe the early match he had with that one dude was just an unstable connection.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

2Frames is more than enough for most matches in SG

[@grantgarbour]

Because chat doesn't know what they're talking about lol

[@edhenshuusha4666]

I constantly play with people from other countries with 2-3f as the game sets and it's pretty smooth.

[@pretzels1208]

dude when i saw that "delay based devotee" was fuzzy_snugs i was like o h n o

[@ViroVeteruscy]

Welcome to SG, everyone are sharks here >w> A lot of the combos in this game are player/situation specific. All the characters have a ton of options so it depends on what your play style is going for.

[@roarore8810]

This is making me feel a little better about myself, thank god honestly. I bought this game 3 days ago for 2 dollars with the 2nd encore upgrade on fanatical, and damn am I bad. Before this there were only two games/series I actually wanted to get good at, SF and Tekken, and I'm only half decent in street fighter and I suck at Tekken. So I'm not exactly good at fighting games, and this is the first airdash, or however this style of fg would be called, game that I've played. I get absolutely bodied by long combos/resets online and 90 percent of the time I can't get one hit in. Current I'm just learning Ms. Fortune and I like the idea of a one person team, but I want to also learn R. Fortune and Valentine. Im trying to get to a not die right away level for evo online so I can see if I can even beat one person since Street fighter isnt going to be an open tourney.

[@danielboi1869]

rip evo xd

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

"If you ain't first you're LAST!"

[@TurboNemesis]

Just want you to know that these learning videos have reignited my interest in fighting games. I've always admired them from afar but didnt know how to approach learning one. I picked up Skullgirls yesterday and I'm slowly working my way through the tutorials. Maybe well see each other online!

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

don't forget there's a wiki and a community discord to help you out!

[@TurboNemesis]

@@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi shit i didnt even consider joining a community discord. good call! i'm still getting my legs under me. it's been ages since i sat down and tried to learn a fighting game.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@TurboNemesis it's cool man, and if a discord isn't your cup of tea, the community has also made their own wiki covering pretty much everything you need to learn about the game, characters, combos, resets, ect. wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Skullgirls

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@simonm7917 links to all SG community resources are here: playskullgirls.com

[@jeremyporter6776]

Turvon was your first online opponent? That's rough buddy.

[@NaxipTV.]

i'm 30 minutes in and I don't know if he's told this but if there are blue question marks that means you missed the block on an overhead. also you can cancel almost everything on whiff in this game.

[@nandomax3]

I really like skullgirls and I wish I could play it better. I tried SGirls for a couple months, but when I tried SFV it felt much better to play. I'm now trying to learn SFV and SFVI in the near future. I hope one day my brain and hand will be able to do better at skullgirls

[@mutantdude6373]

Seeing all this gameplay makes me wish I got into this game competitively when it first came out

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

never too late man, SkullGirls' launch party never stops

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

That's me but with every FG.

[@2la84me]

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

@@2la84me But then you take one step forward, four back, sit down a lil' bit, quit, take one again, mess around, then realise you might not have time for any of this and there might be more important things to do.

[@2centstudios]

I recognize the avatar for delay based devotee but I'm not sure who that is exactly. That's not Yaya is it?

[@ilexyellowdog]

It's Fuzzy Snugs

[@2centstudios]

@@ilexyellowdog That was it. Thank you~

[@realhero4356]

Its hard to learn play in online nowdays cause everyone there playing since 2012 and just destroying u in endless combo. U don't have even a chance to practice.

[@grantgarbour]

This is how I felt in under night, but eventually I got used to their set ups, learned to block them and get out of them. After I acquired a beginner level defense, I moved on to learning how to pressure them, and then putting it together. Learning process is tough, but you can only get hit by a set up so many times before you try to learn how to stop it

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

I love everything about SGs but as soon as I saw online footage of 60+ hit combos I knew I'd never wanna touch online.

[@KuroOnehalf]

Just make a lobby and title it beginners only. There's more people at low and intermediate levels out there than you think. If someone gets in that you feel is too high level, just kick them from the lobby. You could also find some sparring buddies on discord. Also, nitpick here, but very long combos are disincentivized in this game and there's a few systems at play to enforce that. The game wants you to reset often, and that gives you chances to stop the offense if you're the one getting hit. Sajam's previous SG videos went over that. :p

[@realhero4356]

Kuroonehalf ill try lobby strat, thx mate

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

@@KuroOnehalf Most Beginner Only lobbies are baits made by better players to feed on and troll newbies so I doubt that'll work well. As for combos, yeah, I heard what Saj said but still resetting isn't easy either and to me even 10+ hit combos border on being too long.

[@dekuskrub2154]

I usually keep my delay locked to 1 unless the ping starts getting bad

[@tristankeech4070]

Not playing big band REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@CF565]

I thought SG was famous for its netcode- anyone know why his experience looked like shit?

[@scouty2957]

You literally picked the worst spot for the face cam

[@tremorchrist84]

At the very least, it'll help people seeing you getting your ass kicked online too. It's good to know you're not alone.

[@bmx9757]

Ppl keep saying it’s reassuring seeing him get his ass kicked when its the complete opposite for me,if im watching someone way better at fighting games get their shit kicked in what chance do i have?

[@eshaanbasu9342]

How can both players select different team size in this game?

[@grantgarbour]

Because the game allows you to have 1,2, or 3 characters

[@sledgehammersssssquad3624]

health and damage is scaled based on how large of a team you pick.

[@eshaanbasu9342]

@@sledgehammersssssquad3624 is losing assists a big disadvantage?

[@TheSlinja]

@@eshaanbasu9342 its balanced by how much more health and damage your solo char has

[@sledgehammersssssquad3624]

@@eshaanbasu9342 I would say it's definitely harder to win with a solo character, since having tags and assists and stuff really opens up your options. Being able to tag out and regenerate red health can tip the scales a bit against a solo team as well. But it does feel balanced enough. Most top-level players use trio teams but occasionally sonicfox will roast everyone with a solo fukua or there's this guy who does shockingly well playing solo peacock with a mixbox made out of a shoebox with the attack keys on the left and the direction keys on the right

[@beanavitch]

hey

[@tylermarsh7517]

It didn't even look that bad? But I wasnt playing tho

[@GoldenPandoria]

Holy *fuck* MPGame's Robo-Fortune was fucking insane. I play robo............ I wanna do that.......... someday lmao

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

you can, the wiki has alot of good stuff to look over. and I'm sure MP is willing to give out a few pointers

[@akathesk]

you're one of the few players who I've seen who has an attitude of "just murder me if I'm new". It's rare new players have the discipline to tough that out especially when they first start and I know no-one enjoys fights that one sided, viewing figures prove it. Getting flattened by a professional boxer doesn't achieve anything except test the new guys will, not something you ever do to to a day 1 learner unless they have an ego which needs to be humbled and the same is true in fighting games.

[@tylercafe1260]

That analogy doesn't really convey why this is a better strategy. Like something people unfortunately equate with is "Wins = Improvement" and that's not even CLOSE to being true. I would want to go against a pro boxer if I was serious about boxing. Who am I going to train with otherwise? Another amateur? People take the shit talking from the FGC so serious that if they go 13-0 they might just think they truly suck at the game. Losing/failing is natural to the learning so I gotta rep that L a few time before you go up in weight or else you might end up hurting yourself.

[@akathesk]

@@tylercafe1260 so many games not to mention the fgc itself just drill it in your head that all that matters is not getting the L. and just to clarify there's a world of difference between a professional boxer who will flatten you before you even know what's going on and a professional boxer who punishes you for making stupid mistakes. Most of the fgc thou? Like to flex and tends to fall more into the former.

[@NeoKurow]

13:15 this is why I gave up in fighting games online. This game have rollback netcode and that guy have a 83 ms ping however for someone like Sajam his connection was "bad". Well guess what when you are any other country in this continent that is not USA or maybe Canada you will never have less than 100 ping. That was not good enough even with rollback netcode there is no hope for fighting games online not now and not in the next 30 years.

[@egoalter1276]

Not ever. Internet ping is not technology dependent, its literally lightspeed lag.

[@vangoghsseveredear]

Skullgirls fans, constantly: "Bro you HAVE to come play skullgirls, its the best game ever made" Skullgirls fans when you try to play:

[@thisistherun4015]

Gooigi Double is so funny

[@shalltear159]

i am pissing my shorts

[@Guccibear100]

The thing is, the only people left still playing SG online are this good, so yeah, no new players stick with it. no one is as patient as Sajam.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

that's not true actually, we do have beginner friendly match making/tourney in the community discord. The community understands that a majority of them are strong long time players and that can discourage new players coming in, that's why we try to help and teach people when they ask for help.

[@Guccibear100]

@@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi oh wow thats good to know, sorry for being proud of my ignorance.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

@@Guccibear100 hey it's all cool.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Japanese voices? Wat

[@zerobasedgod9291]

Gay furry in the lobby lol???? Tear him up???

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Filia and... Double? Really? Bummer.

[@tariqkhan-qo3ow]

This may sound crazy but do you think this game overly animated, to the point it's un aesthetic.

[@Copperhell144]

No. And yeah, that does sound crazy.

[@Next-xm2dh]

The only Character Who Suffers a Bit From This Is Double

[@2la84me]

I get what you mean but I fundamentally disagree when its applied to Skullgirls. It uses every technique in the book to animate its characters and thats why it holds up so well and will never lose its shine. Besides, its usually better to over animate than to under animate than have gameplay come off as choppy especially in a fighting game where every frame matters.

[@2la84me]

@@Next-xm2dh That's because she's meant to be unnerving. If you find her hard to look and unsettling then the animators have done their job right.

[@Next-xm2dh]

@@2la84me It's Nothing About Her Being Unsettling, She Transitions Between So Many Different Characters Normals That Most Of the Time It's Hard To Understand WTF Is Going On, That goo That Comes Out Of Her Everytime she Does It Also Doesn't help

[@isaacsteele7986]

Skullgirls has way too many unreactable mixups and resets, super degenerate to play

[@egrassa1480]

Yeah, but fun

[@jugemujugemu4690]

Okay scrub

[@isaacsteele7986]

@@egrassa1480 Getting locked into combos that arent infinites but that are so hard to escape may as well be infinites between the resets and the burst bait,combined with the neutral game that is way too active with extreme mixups and is all over the place with random attacks, and yeah its not very fun. Especially when your caught in the blender and it becomes one player for both sides.

[@egrassa1480]

@@isaacsteele7986 it's aight for me

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

@@isaacsteele7986 Since noone here seems to be capable of empathy, yeah, it's hard and it can suck. I feel ya.

[@jamestaylor9151]

I like the concept of Skullgirls... then I watch 5 mins of play and to me it just looks like a bunch of anime nonsense appears on screen and you just die from two combos. My eyes hurt and I realize I could never play this game.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

have you not watched competitive marvel 2 before? SkullGirls is like that

[@jamestaylor9151]

@@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi Competitive marvel is exactly like this. Don't watch that either.

[@2la84me]

@@jamestaylor9151 Its a shame its not for you but keep in mind youre watching high level play. I could show you high level play of near any of your favorite games and it will just suck your soul out. I love Tetris and Skullgirls, both games with killers just sitting on every corner you can imagine and I just do my best to have fun. Besides, the ingame CPU fights are really good. Like once you can scale up from Easy, Normal, Hard all the way into nightmare THEN you'll feel the urge to start cutting your teeth online and seeing how sharp your fangs can get after they get broken 50 times in a row.

[@8bit_pineapple]

​@@2la84me ​As a complete newbie I think it's that all the moves have wildly different unique silhouettes which causes some information overload -- By the time I comprehend that Felia's hair turned into a scorpion tail twenty other things happened. But ... that probably makes the game easier after you've learned the move list since you won't confuse a move for another. Whereas a game like Tekken a brand new player might _think_ they comprehend what's going on, two guys punching/kicking/grabbing each other, but overlook characters have ~60-180 different moves.

[@TheRealJawnz]

@@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi Marvel does have very two important things going for it though: Characters have transition frames and animations when they attack and characters don't look like multicolored blobs colliding with each other, unlike SG.

[@sleepofgc]

first haha poopoo pee

[@alexfernandez9290]

Get wash