Surviving White Evangelical Racism - Dr. Lainna Callentine

[@HT4mebaby]

You had me till you mocked a white person, Donald Trump. As a minority. The phrase African American is profoundly offensive. I have never been to Africa. I am an American. I do not need other adjectives to describe myself. That’s the problem. If we are going to truly lament and heal. Why have to stop mocking others perspective. We label and in our attempt to unify we have to still jab. Sad.

[@PacoStTaco]

So true...

[@JonSmythe]

I am sure she thinks that blacks cannot be racist consistent with race baiting political activism.

[@laurakosch]

Amén. America is on a dangerous trajectory. There are forces who seek to divide and conquer by any means, including these labels you mention.

[@steelshepherd4004]

Your experience is my experience, and I believe my experience is your experience, both in so many detailed ways: - I was raised in predominantly white spaces, - Both my parents died of Covid a week apart from one another, - Ecclesiastically, I have been a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the Christian Reformed Church, and the Presbyterian Church in America, - I am a Teaching Elder in the Presbyterian Church in America. Our experiences are strikingly similar.

[@starlingswallow]

My heart. I hate how this woman's heart was hurt and he skin color was judged. I hate how this happens everywhere.... I just want you to know, my friends of color, You matter. You are seen. You are heard. You are worthy of good things, protection, attention, love, time, success, validation and acknowledgement ❤ I'm SO grateful for this woman! She's such a brave person to get up and talk openly about what she's gone through, and how this affected her and all our black friends & neighbors. I'm so sorry this is a thing 😢

[@RAPierce]

Wow, I felt this conversation on MANY levels! Every Black story is not a monolith, so her story is different, but still so many similarities. Not learning about important Blacks and their contributions to America until years later (as an educated Black person even) truly resonated. And I had to practically seek out that knowledge - much less for those being part of the "white invisible" majority. Not having many Black teachers all my life. I could go on! And I even understand how the awakening, and then loss of her marriage is part of this story. It's truly sad, and I pray for her continued healing 🙏🏾

[@JonSmythe]

Can I capitalize Whites? Why or why not? Why would capitalizing White be “supremacy” and capitalizing black not?

[@laurakosch]

Usually with Julie Roys podcasts, I come away with concrete information. This podcast was nebulous - it was assertions and no specifics. I am sorry, I don't mean to be insensitive. There were a lot of talking points, but I did not learn anything new to go forward with. It's hard to explain; I wanted to know how I could change and help a bad situation. And it's true, I do have friends of every colour - love them all. But all I learned is that this is somehow now a wrong attitude: to embrace all people, to love without prejudice or regard for race or colour. Yet this is the teaching of the New Testament - There is now neither male nor female, jew nor greek, slave nor free - we are all united in Christ. Unity. Lament... ok. Liberate - how? There are no details. "Reclaim... Re-imagine Systems" Many of us have been hurt deeply by the church. The pastor betrayed a confidence or crossed a sexual line. We have felt left out, invisible or were abused. White or black, this is happening and it's the reason Julie R has a ministry. Please tell me how white people specifically hurt this speaker? Compared to other stories (ie., Lori Ann Thompson), there are zero specifics here.

[@RAPierce]

I get what you're saying. There weren't many "hard concrete" examples that would slap you in the face. But maybe because I resonated with so much of it, I saw it clearly (not being part of "the invisible). To answer your thought on what you could do to help: I would say to go back to the apology from Julie at the beginning and listen from that angle. And then, as the speaker says, use your power of privilege to help those who don't have the space, place, or opportunity to speak up. Maybe also listen to the podcasts and read books that can help you see it more. Jemar Tisby, Esau McCaulley, and "The Holy Post" would be helpful to start. Hope this helps! 🙏🏾

[@Webbgurl2000]

Great answer. You’re learning not to center yourself in other people’s experiences.

[@Webbgurl2000]

I get how difficult it is to hear you’re part of a group who’s been harmful to another and how improbable it seems that one such as yourself who has been victimized and traumatized is now being accused of a hateful act. Racism is a sin of abuse on black and brown souls that starts from the womb and follows you to the tomb. While you’ve been so wrongly subjected to abuse, you can learn how others are abused by the trauma of racism. Perhaps, you don’t owe anyone an apology personally, but her speech is about raising awareness of other people who are victimized as well. It’s about de-centering your self without disrespecting yourself and sharing the stage. To be Black and Brown is to be abused by trauma with microagressions DAILY. While your abuse took place within the Church Community, ours is day in and out in ALL SPACES.

[@laurakosch]

Help me out - I'm a little fuzzy on what you mean. How can you know I'm "learning" this or that without having a good understanding of who I am? (this depth of knowledge cannot be attained based off of one comment). What is meant by "centering" oneself in another's experience? I think we can all learn from each other, yes. But our existence, identity and "self" does not have to be situated in the experiences of others. So... if you can explain further, I'm happy to take your comments into consideration. And because this conversation involves the volatile topic of race, I can't even tell if your comments are well intentioned or sarcastic (we lose a lot of meaning when communication takes place in text only). @@Webbgurl2000

[@laurakosch]

I'm from Canada. We do not have the same dynamics here perhaps as in the states. Privilege comes in many forms - and is not always measured by skin colour. To me, a privileged upbringing would be having two loving parents, committed to the sacrifice required to raise healthy children. It would be a home filled with peace, and a love for learning. Encouragement. And the gospel. Anyone who enjoys these advantages can be said to have privilege. There are white families who are a disaster of violence, domestic abuse, drugs and infidelity. The unfortunate children from these homes will be broken, and bear scars that make basic functioning difficult; they may not even be capable of being that "privileged" voice to speak on behalf of others. Almost everyone, of every race, has felt the crushing sense of being invisible, unimportant, rejected. This is part of living in a broken world. If the person of colour invariably attributes this rejection or sense of being invisible to racism, could they be overlooking the universal aspect of these feelings? And why do I feel them sometimes? What could be the reason I am voice-less? Is it because I am a woman, and I do not have the privileged position that men have? Believe me, I have wondered this - especially in the context of church, where it seems a sin for a woman to have any doctrinal opinions. I have longed for the "privileged" voice that men have (no matter what their level of personal study or understanding; they simple are allowed to speak about God and the Bible. I am not - especially if my opinion differs from the mens'). Anyway, yes, it was Julie's introduction that caught my attention and caused me to listen to this speaker with great attention and anticipation. When you say I ought to use my "privilege" to speak for others who have no voice, I can't help be feel this is a patronizing strategy which feeds back into a loop of racism. It is infantilizing and counters the truth that we are all valuable and capable. We need to see each other as human, all equal in value and all worthy of the love of God. This may be a step forward in solving both racial and gender inequities. Again, this appears to be the formula provided in the New Testament - God ERASES all the lines - there is no Jew or Greek, male or female - we are all united in Christ. I did review the resources you suggested. Thank you for taking the time to discuss this important topic. @@RAPierce

[@JonSmythe]

The video lady gives zero examples of the individuals that were racist to her. Unless she does that, its all feelings and see where it led to? Accusing the whole church of her version of “racism”.

[@johntobey1558]

In Pennsylvania we have walked alongside black friemds who were told they could serve as elders amd then they were quitlely taken off the ballot before they were permitted to have their name entered for a Congregational vote.

[@stacylynnh]

I believe it. My husband, a white guy, was told he didn't qualify to be an elder because, I have a masters degree in psychology and the white young evangelical pastor who inherited the pulpit because his daddy had it before him, was threatened by my education. Discrimination happens in many forms.

[@johntobey1558]

Nepotism should not be tolerated I am a Licensed Professional Counselor with over five years of graduate training in theology. Pastor's have many different reactions to us, frequently they are somewhat less then positive.

[@stacylynnh]

Thank you for having the courage to share your story and for exposing your experience. I can relate to so much of what you said, as a white woman, and not because of the color of my skin, but because of other things - education, being barren, having a mind of my own and so much more. A few years ago my friend, Dr. Aikyna Finch, invited me to speak at a conference she put together called the Social Power Summit. This was a summit put together because Aikyna noted that in the world of social media, that the only conferences that were being put on was the huge one put on by Social Media Marketing World, which boasts of being the largest social media conference around. The problem is that they had very few African American speakers and so Aikyna decided to take it upon herself to have her own summit and she targeted the African American professionals she knew in that space. She ended up having around 200 folks come and some of the most top quality speakers at the event (not including me). She invited me because, even though I am white, she appreciated my voice in the Christian space and SHE noted how I have been discriminated against. The irony of that. So, I was the only white woman at this event, who was allowed to speak to a whole conference of African American professionals and it was the joy of my heart. It was actually the first time I felt SEEN and not because I am white, but because I was finally heard. It makes me sick that the evangelical church has treated you this way and it makes me mad that when people speak out about it that unless they take up arms and do something, nothing gets done. Thanks for not giving up and for standing firm. Sadly, I hosted a podcast for 20 years and I never saw your name and I've had my hands in every ministry on the planet in that world. I'm glad I'm no longer apart of it.

[@JonSmythe]

Use of the word “space” indicates a leftist lean. Are you aware if that?

[@marymorris6897]

I've been through some horrible things at church, and I greatly sympathize with everyone who has had similar experiences. In my case it had to do with my undiagnosed CPTSD. Twenty years ago, my family met a fine young man from Kenya. He was here to further his education. While going to a small liberal arts college, he decided to run for student body president. The black students told him he would have no chance, his white friends said, "Go for it!" He easily won; he was that kind of guy everyone liked and respected. My point is that a lot of the suffering American blacks endure has to do with their own attitudes. If you go through life with fear and resentment in your heart and a chip on your shoulder, you will be side stepped by white America. We are tired of that attitude, even those of us who are sympathetic about they came about.

[@JonSmythe]

American blacks are a different mentality than blacks elsewhere. They are taught to have a chip on their shoulders by their generally single moms.

[@stephanieolsonspeaking]

Your statement is example of the importance of listening and trying to learn. I can relate to this message so strongly. I don’t agree with your comment, but what I would ask you to do is think of a time when you were deeply hurt. How did that affect you? How did that change your attitude, your mindset, and your heart? Please don’t minimize someone’s experiences just because you don’t have a full understanding.

[@marymorris6897]

@@stephanieolsonspeaking Stephanie, thanks for replying. None of us has perfect understanding. I could have said a lot more about the speaker's attitudes, but I was trying to be kind. Someone with her attitude should stay far away from white churches, because they will never be able to give her what she wants. I think she is hypersensitive and resentful. That may not be the case, but that's how she comes off.

[@marymorris6897]

@@stephanieolsonspeaking I'm sorry, there's something important I left out of my first reply. I also have not found a safe place in the white church, even though I am white. I have CPTSD, which causes anxiety. I've made a kind of peace with going to church and not getting involved. That way I can avoid rejection.

[@stephanieolsonspeaking]

@@marymorris6897 I am so sorry you have experienced that. The church is certainly made up of the broken. I’m grateful we have a Savior who loves us and understands all!

[@JonSmythe]

On the podcast site, some “Marin” lady is there talking democrat/leftist ideas. It’s hard to respond since the lag time for a posting to appear seems to take a while. I looked up the name on leftist LinkedIn, and found a divisive DEI “job” she is in.🙄 disclaimer: if it is the same person.

[@JonSmythe]

From the controlled, or shut down comments at the website. “Marin Heiskell says: January 15, 2024 at 8:42 pm I respect your experience, Barry. However, we must be careful with weighting such “I haven’t seen or experienced it” as little more than one’s personal experience; it is from a data point of ONE. I don’t say that to belittle your experience; I say that because “that’s not MY experience” is the same logic used to deny or invalidate claims of abuse (and racism is a form of abuse).” Facts can “deny” any claim and anyone cam question back if they are being accused of the garbage you promote, ma’am. Everything is not “abuse” so do not belittle real abuse by calling being annoyed by racism, black or otherwise, “ abuse”. 🙄

[@johntobey1558]

Praying for peace to be restored in your heart and the conviction of sin to those who apparently excluded you..

[@maryannplumlee2889]

As an older white woman raised in the south. I have been convicted of how wrong this all is. The churches opposition to CRT was a wake up call for me to realize there were things i did not know and was not supposed to know about racism. I am humbled by what i have discovered. Thank u for your talk. If you, in all your accomplishments have suffered, imagine other less accomplished and their suffering. Tragic. My question...what can i do? As one old woman. Ive made small, hopefully meaningful changes. Things like addressing as "ma'am" and "sir". I need to do more.

[@Susan-f5u]

What’s wrong with addressing anyone with ma’am and sir?

[@maryannplumlee2889]

Nothing. I'm making a point of addressing people in times past that I would have ignored. Using terms of respect. "THANK u sir for holding my door" "thank u ma'am for working on the weekend to check out my groceries". Etc.etc.

[@Webbgurl2000]

Vote your conscience. That’s what we need. Refuse to put another openly nationalist candidate in office. That will do a whole lot more to promote change then using titles.

[@Webbgurl2000]

Vote your conscience. That’s what we need. Refuse to put another openly nationalist candidate in office. That will do a whole lot more to promote change then using titles.

[@Webbgurl2000]

Vote your conscience. That’s what we need. Refuse to put another openly nationalist candidate in office. That will do a whole lot more to promote change then using titles.

[@joy-joy8675]

I have listened to this talk twice, and really pondered her words and the grief they covey. I believe her message to 'white folks' pointed out that her personhood had been wounded and she was taking a tremendous risk to tell the audience and then later, the Internet. I want to 'love my neighbor as myself' and could have areas in which I am blind to my own hurtful actions or attitudes. Could you interview her and gather more specifics on the areas of injuries, along with actions of healing that would be meaningful to her and possibly others who have experienced similar injury?

[@JonSmythe]

In all seriousness and New Testament teachings, how does this false blanket accusation accomplish in building up the church, the body of Christ?

[@JonSmythe]

The leftists terms used by the video lady gives what influenced her race politics. One is “spaces”. Everything got to be a “space” 🙄. Survivor is another word that leftists cheapen to make it fit anything. Save “survivor” for real things. “Hurt my feelings or annoyed me” doesn’t count. Save “abuse” for real abuses. Do not cheapen it. When I had an hearing aid very young, I was laughed at sometimes, but that’s annoying, not “abuse”. Racism is another word cheapened to mean whatever a black person decides it’s meaning, while no white person has a right to say anything but “I agree”. 🙄 Another thing, how did the video lady automatically accuse the white group of instant “racism”? What is sad is she should know better.

[@JayRuperRoe]

What does this have to do with Christianity? This should be in Anton LeVey's Church.

[@harrybiggmuth2765]

How about you listen! 😢 Yeah, got zero time for Eurocentric foolish theology!😕🤬😠

[@harrybiggmuth2765]

Grew up in a KKK town, hated those fools then, hate them more now! 🤬😠

[@JonSmythe]

Nothing to do with Jesus, just leftist issues, marxist issues, and political agendas.

[@JonSmythe]

@@harrybiggmuth2765explaining your thoughts biblically.

[@JonSmythe]

From someone else at the podcast good post. “I read the transcript and will re-read it for specific details and examples of what white people said/did or didn’t say/do to the speaker herself, or to others, which constituted white racism or white evangelical racism. It’s not enough just to conclude, they don’t see us as fully imago dei. How do they demonstrate this? By being the majority in some churches, denominations, as speakers or leaders or at conferences- therefore racism? I read a lot about her personal feelings and her opinions. I need to know examples of what happened to her at the hands of whites. She was singled out and received special treatment from the med school professor, who went to bat with her/for her when she was about to be failed - apparently more than once. I was expecting to read that the school didn’t fail white students with similar poor grades. If that had happened, that would have been racism. I’m glad she felt at home in Ghana, where 98.4% of the populace are ethnically and phenotypically similar to her in appearance; of course, they do not call themselves “black”. They are the overwhelming majority in their country, and indeed in Sub-Saharan Africa.”

[@JonSmythe]

It appeared that at the Julie Roys podcast page has cut off any responses to the lady in the video, who when comes to push and shove, her life revolves around her skin color, and she needs to ask for forgiveness in accusations against Jesus’ body, the church, and for her blanket accusations against all individuals in it of all colors. She’s not a survivor of anything except normal life’s garbage that everyone gets. Was she raped? Was she physically abused? Was she sexually abused? Those are “survivor” things. Who puts “getting feelings hurt” in the same sentence with “being a survivor”??

[@JonSmythe]

Black privilege example: A black can make racial comments without backlash, generally.

[@JonSmythe]

Why did the video lady make sure she was not associated with Focus on the Family? (In podcast’s prelude) If black political activists like her would Focus on the Family, the lot of black people would greatly improve. There would be no more “pushing 80%” out of wedlock black births.

[@lindajohnson4204]

If we could just repent of making politics and control important enough, in our eyes, to suppress moral truths, then we'd know we have no excuse to call evil good; or an exceptable sacrifice, considering the pragmatic costs. If we didn't believe that anymore, we'd know it was not okay to value the things that affect the other's life as less important thsn our ow, much less to do iit so we think the right people will be, or remain, in charge. Recent history ought to teach us better than that.

[@JonSmythe]

Black privilege example: creditworthiness is lowered for loans. According to my loan officer friend telling me.

[@JonSmythe]

So the lady ”preaching” in the video is divorced? 🤔 Discernment needed. Why? Reasons? Just stating that a divorce “just happens” with no background seems bitter off the bat. If a political activist speaker uses a divorce as an attempt at proving a point, more information needs to be given.

[@thebcvbookchapterversepodc7886]

WOW! Bethlehem Baptist Church too???

[@Window4503]

Every church has sinners. That’s why they’re there. The problem is when sinners refuse to realize or are ignorant of the ways in which they’re sinning.

[@starlingswallow]

@@Window4503amen 😢

[@mistybedwell5962]

So grateful to hear this message, so powerful, and wanted.

[@ruthtirado2750]

Seriously???

[@JonSmythe]

Yes, the matriarch is serious with her witch hunt for hidden racism.

[@JonSmythe]

Marin says: “Somehow, there’s always someone or something to blameshift or point to as a reason for how that “needs to be better understood” to lessen the accountability. We had NO business going against our founding documents and Christian principles by participating in the slave trade, period. Why is that so hard to say? Why is a “whataboutism” necessary?” One cannot hold dead people accountable. They died. Get over yourself, Marin, please, for the sake of Jesus. Listen lady, it’s calling “looking at the big picture “. It’s easier to refute your many errors here since the Roy podcast posts censorship is much less here.