EP 280: Bhogiraj Chamling | Kathmandu's History, Kirati History

@user-vv2qv6wh4y 4 күн бұрын

Probably best podcast ever . Totally connected. Gurung haruko grantha ma pani northern side bata aayera chhutiyeko vanne chha somehow it’s connected. Part 2 indeed

@memestudio56 6 күн бұрын

कतिपय आर्य नश्लको मानिसहरुलाई यी कुराहरू पचाउन मुश्किल भइरहेको छ। प्रत्येकको कमेन्टमा गएर नानाथरी लेखिरहेको छ। अहिले सम्म मैले खोजेको पढेको सुनेको इतिहासमा धेरै convincing यो podcast पाएँ। यसको लागि धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद। थप कुरा गर्नु पर्दा चाहिँ, उदाहरणको लागि राउटे जाति जसरी जंगलमा नै रहेको छ हालको समय सम्म त्यसरी नै सुरुमा यो उपत्यकामा सिकार खेल्दै आउने जाति मध्ये किरातीहरु नै हुन। यसरी आउने क्रम पछि सम्म नै चलेको हो, यसलाई नकार्न सकिन्न। कोही कैलाश मानसरोवर हुँदै आए कोही पूर्वको कमारुपा हुँदै आए अनि कोही दक्षिणबाट। दक्षिण बाट आउनेहरू चाहिँ धेरै पछि आएका हुन जो आर्य नश्लकाहरु हुन। उनीहरू मध्ये सुरुमा आउनेहरू चाहिँ पश्चिम क्षेत्रबाट आएकाहरु हुन जसलाई खस भनिन्छ। उनीहरू यहाँका पहिले नै आएर बसेका हरुसंग नजिकिन पुगेर उनीहरूको समाज र संस्कृति त्यही अनुसार बद्लिन पुग्यो। जो मानसरोवर हुँदै आए उनीहरू हडप्पा सभ्यता सँग नजिकिन पुगे। त्यही क्रममा उनीहरूमा द्रविडहरुको पनि केही प्रभाव पर्न गयो। यसरी गतिशील हुँदै हाम्रो समाज काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा एकीकृत हुन पुग्यो र जसको अन्तरसंघर्षको रूपमा नेवाः सभ्यता र समाज पनि विकास हुन पुग्यो। अन्त्यमा, यो हाम्रो नेपाली समाजको विकास बुझ्नको लागि समग्र हाल बसोबास गर्ने समुदायको दृष्टिकोण, समाज, परम्परालाई समग्रमा नियाल्नु पर्ने हुन्छ। हिजो ब्राह्मणवादी सोचले धेरै इतिहास दबिन पुग्यो। अनि अर्को कुरा, यलम्बरले काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा आगमनको विषयमा तामाङ समुदायमा एउटा राम्रो कथा छ, यसलाई अझ बुझ्न सीताराम तामाङ ज्यू लाई आमन्त्रण गर्न सक्नु हुन्छ। जाँदा जाँदै, चेम्जोङ जी ले भन्न छुटाउनु भएको कुरा चाहिँ जुन पाषण कालीन हतियार थियो त्यो मंगोलियाको गोबी क्षेत्रमा पाएको हतियार सँग मेल खान्थ्यो। धन्यबाद

@suyograi2012 6 күн бұрын

You are absolutely right

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu and Rai: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@user-kk5kh1mi8s 6 күн бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hv khubai thakuri sanga connect huna khojeko hola Bali haang raja magar vanney yo Nepal maa vaako mongol Samaaj maa sabai vandaa kamjor rah aafulai mongol vandaa ni aaarya thakuri vanna ruchaauney jaat magar ho thakuri ley raajya garyo vandai maa magar le raajya gareko pusti hudaina na gurung ley tyo tai na tui ko jugey ko etihaas Lai haami maandai nau kirati haru ley haareyko raajya Lai feri paauna agdam tigdam kaheley Pani garenau baru arko raajya Tira laageu timi Lai chai brain wash gareko ho nani hijo haami 5-6 class padhney bela yalambar Lai Nepal ko pahelo raja maanthyo vanthyo bich maa fraud indian bahun etihaaskaar ley aayerah paal bangsha ley pahelo raaj garyo vanerah promote garyo thakuri magar hoina thakuri India bata vaagerah Aayeko ho magar haru lai veda banaayerah brain wash garerah magar rah thakuri eutai ho vandai promote garyo rahan sahan eutai hudai maa jaat tharr eutai hudaina

@lyanglyang1 6 күн бұрын

त नेपाली होइनस मुजि । त नस्ल बादी होस , नेपाली होइनस । जा आफ्नो उत्पति भएको ठाउँ जा । तेरो नस्ल को मुल तेरो बाउ भको ठाउँ जा । गेडा देखाउदै नेपाल किन बसि रको छस । तेरो नस्ल तेरो उत्पति जा भएको हो त्यही जा, सबै मिलेर बसेको नेपाल मा यो नस्ल त्यो नस्ल भन्दै सद्भाव भाड्ने काम नगर खाते ।

@memestudio56 6 күн бұрын

@@lyanglyang1 इतिहासलाई बताउँदा सदभाव विग्रिदैन। तर सत्य पचाउन सक्नु पर्दछ। जुन अहिलेको केही अर्य समुदायमा छैन। उनीहरू चाहिँ के नस्ल बादी होइनन्? अनि अर्को कुरा त्यो मंगोल के के भन्दै हिड्छन नी हो तिनीहरूको नी विरोधी हो म। तिमीहरूलाई म नश्लवादी लाग्छ भने लागोस। तर हिजो नामेट पारिएको ईतिहास उजागर गरिनु पर्दछ। जुन धेरै हदसम्म इतिहासले खोल्न नसकिरहेको छ/ दबाइरहेको छ। यी कुराहरू पच्दैन भने मुख पनि नछाडदा हुन्छ। हामीलाई पनि मुख छाड्न आउछ। अनि हामी सबै अफ्रिका बाट आएका हौ, खोज्दै जाने हो भने त्यही हो। इतिहासको कालखण्डमा हामी यो स्थानमा जम्मा भएका छौं। हाम्रो केही समाज र संस्कृतिले तिमीहरूलाई केही असर पार्दछ नै अनि तिमीहरूको समाज संस्कृतिले पनि हाम्रो समाज संस्कृतिलाई केही असर पर्दछ (सकारात्मक /नकारात्मक दुवै दृष्टिकोणले हेर्न सकिन्छ) । अनि यो विभिन्न तवरले समाजको अन्तरद्वन्द्व त चली नै रहन्छ। तर, अब के??? आपसी भाइचारा कायम गर्दै अघि बढ्नुको विकल्प छैन। इतिहास को यथार्थता कोट्याउँदा तिम्रो नाख दुख्छ भन त्यो नाक फलिदेऊ। त्यो तिम्रो समस्या हो।

@narayanthapa283 3 күн бұрын

मैले यो लामो प्रस्तुति धैर्यताका साथ सुनें, हामीले इतिहास भनेको , मानेको भन्दा पनि धेरै धेरै परको कुरा, विषय आयो । अति रोचक र खोजमूलक लाग्यो । धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद छ सर यहाँको खोज अन्वेषणको लागि ।

@sijanshakya 6 күн бұрын

There are so many things that connects of Newari and kirati folklore the thing about some one coming from assam to teach us rice planting is so fascinating remember the main god if Newars karunamaya or rato machindranath was also brought from assam another thing sankhu is believed to be the oldest city of the valley so as the myth goes as the swoyambhu stupas seed was planted by amitabha Buddha and later on enshrined before the statue in sankhu there was the stupa enclosed to this day in temple and the Mahayana Buddhism was started there before Buddha then which I feel may not be called Buddhism then so too many dots were connected makes sense if we try to connect kırat mundhum. An interesting fact I know and we don’t care is newar play dhimey and the kırat too have the similar percussion drum and another thing newars and kirats both have a culture of worshiping their ancestors and yes ChyaSal exists and the modern days jyapu (kıssan) in newar community are kirats and identify as such viz. Maharjan dongol byanjankar manadhar Mali and few more. Interesting content

@dhanbirrai5931 5 күн бұрын

हाम्रो किराँत समुदायमा मुन्धुम बारे अझ धेरै अध्यान गर्नु पर्छ। बधाई छ भोगिराज दाजु।

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Күн бұрын

seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo

@limbuckl 4 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdYou are mixing Sikkim and Nepal history. Bhutias definitely occupied Sikkim first. Kiratis settled later after being displaced by Shahs during and after unificiation of Nepal.

@surajgautam7553 7 күн бұрын

मलाई ८,९,१० कक्षामा नेपाली पढाउने गुरु, आज धेरै पछि उहाको कुरा सुन्न पाउँदा निकै खुसी लागेको छ🙏

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 7 күн бұрын

The Limbu and Rai communities in Nepal and Sikkim have long been associated with the ancient Kirat people. However, despite the widespread belief in their antiquity, there is a dearth of archaeological evidence to support this claim. In fact, the available data suggests that these communities are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim. One of the primary arguments against the antiquity of Limbus and Rais is the lack of written records and archaeological sites that date back to the time period when they are believed to have inhabited the region. In contrast, there are numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions that attest to the presence of the Sen Thakuris and Bhutias (Chogyals) in Eastern Nepal and Sikkim, dating back over 600 years. Furthermore, the cultural and linguistic practices of Limbus and Rais are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. For instance, the Limbus have a significant amount of Mongolian DNA, which distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic connection is a strong indication that they are not indigenous to the region but rather migrated from China during the Mongol conquests. The migration of Limbus and Rais from China to Northern Tibet and then to Nepal during the 17th century is well-documented in historical records. They sought refuge in the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim, who provided them with protection and land in exchange for their military services and cultural practices. In summary, the available evidence suggests that Limbus and Rais are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim. Their cultural and linguistic practices, as well as their genetic makeup, are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. Therefore, it is essential to reevaluate the historical narrative surrounding these communities and recognize their true origins and migrations.

@ShumitraMagar 7 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd11❤😊0p 😊

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 7 күн бұрын

Rai Limbu kirati hoina. China ko sinchuwan bata tibet chireko ra tibet bata chogyal ra Sen Thakuri ko rajya ma saran lieko saranarthi haru hun.

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 7 күн бұрын

@@ShumitraMagar Rai Limbu kirati hoina. China ko sinchuwan bata tibet chireko ra tibet bata chogyal ra Sen Thakuri ko rajya ma saran lieko saranarthi haru hun.

@narendrayakthungba8171 7 күн бұрын

Nepal ko Mulbasi Rai, Limbu, Gurung, Magar, Tamag, Tharu, aru Himalayan tribes haru.. Tah haru ko 10, 15 pusta dekhi besi chaina hai Nepal ma etihas😊

@ashmad73 7 күн бұрын

I did a DNA analysis with the National Geography Genome Project, and it aligns well with Dr. Chamling's depiction. I belong to the Jyapu group, and my genetic mix shows 66% northeast asian, and the other 34% is a mix of others. My mother's ancestral DNA lineage resembles the modern-day Han Chinese.

@kaal-timespacedeath4905 7 күн бұрын

Yeah, if we Tibetan-Burmese speakers of Nepal do our DNA test, we'll probably have more similarities with Chinese people. There are two reasons for this. First, there hasn't been much research done on the different branches of Sino-Tibetan and tibetan-burmese language speakers. So, all of us are just lumped together as "Chinese." Second, until recently, we mostly married within our own tribes. Inter-caste marriages are a new thing. So, our DNA has stayed pretty much intact. Don't be surprised if you get 0.1% Native American.

@birajgautam7437 6 күн бұрын

@@kaal-timespacedeath4905 where can we take this test

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।

@prabhuewai9905 6 күн бұрын

Not only Jyapu people but most Newars with Mongoloid ( not Mongolian) physical features) have East Asian genes to varying amount.

@gyanbanks74 5 күн бұрын

My family members who have done the genome test has also revealed the same result…linkages to north eastern and Burmese origin.

@chomolungokhaldhunga7849 3 күн бұрын

भोगीराज चाम्लिङ ज्यूको अथाह ज्ञान सुन्न पाइयो । अवसर जुटाइ दिनु हुने सुशान्त जीलाई धेरै धन्यवाद ।

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Күн бұрын

seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Kasaile Sikkim claim gaeko chaina muji vele. Sikim vaneko sikimese haruko ho Limbu haru ko haina. Limbu haru Limbuwan ko ho . Tya ko sabai Limbuharulai thaha cha Tineru Limbuwan current Nepal bata Rana and Shah rule ko bela migrate vako ho vanera. History trace garnu laga ani Harek Limbu ko last 2000 years ko history Nepal ko Limbuwan ma vetxas muji. Harek post ma comment garya xa basya xa.

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@prabhuewai9905 15 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fddo you know anything about ancient Swayambhu puran which clearly mentions where kiratis went after lichchhabi's victory? Do Naga and Mizo people have archeological structures to prove they are indigenous to their homelands? Do you know anything about king Prithbi Narayan Shah's treaties with Rai Limbu? Do you know until panchayat rule east Nepal was divided into and called wallo kirat, maajh kirat and pallo kirat? Read Baburam Acharya, Janak Lal Sharma and Professor Dor Bahadur Bista to know who Rai Limbu are. By the way, why are you trying to mislead others? What is the reason behind your campaign against Rai Limbu people???

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 13 сағат бұрын

@@anmollimbu2746 Sikkim ma limbu haru le claim garera bhutia lepcha lai hairan garirako cha. I just came from that facebook page. The people of Sikkim are quite disturbed by the habit of limbus of making up history. They were claiming Eastern Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan and Assam were craved out of LImbuwan land which is a total bullshit. Limbus came to nepal 400 years ago. That's it. DNA tests shows high mongolian admixture up to 50%

@kiranrodung000 6 күн бұрын

मौखिक इतिहास र मुन्धुम बारे थप कुराहरू जान्ने मौका पाउँदा खुशी लाग्यो ।।।

@user-tg5ut6ic8l 5 күн бұрын

खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।

@manojrai6205 3 күн бұрын

@@user-tg5ut6ic8l पागल 😂😂😂

@maheshbista4280 3 күн бұрын

Thank you for such quality content. Please bring the Janak Lal Sharma, head of archeology department, as a guest. Hope to see more and more unbiased guests with great knowledge and researches.

@bikash2367 6 күн бұрын

Was amazed fee years back when i first time know Aakash Bhairav was resemblance of King Yalamber

@user-tg5ut6ic8l 5 күн бұрын

खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।

@nishantchamling1017 5 күн бұрын

@@user-tg5ut6ic8lthe myth is everything… even the MAHABHARAT Kurukshetra war…. See the dates when kurukhsetra happened and when the Kirat ruled Nepal valley under yalember … kurukshetra war happened in 3100BCE & after 2000years of kurukshetra war i .e. 800BCE when Yalambar ruled kathmandu valley…

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@villagetv1808 6 күн бұрын

नेपाली मौखिक ज्ञान, मुन्दुम र ईतिहासकै गम्भिर अध्येता भोगिराज चाम्लिङ हुनुहुन्छ ।

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@sapl923 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd baula jasto j payo tei kura sabai ko comment ma chai reply didai kina hideko 😂😂

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu and Rai: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@pratrikg1992 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd if you’ve watched the last part of podcast where the guest mentions that world is dominated by written words and that oral traditions are usually portrayed to be “hawa”. And you kinda prove his point with your “theory”. And where have you sited your source for your argument? Darjeeling hills predominant has been Lepcha and Kirati(especially Limbu) area until the arrival of the Bhutias. But we also must remember that all our ancestors have migrated from somewhere. It is also believe that Kirati probably came into these parts through the northeastern part of India from the Yangzhi river basin. If you’d paid attention to the guest mentions it’s probably from the Eastern side from which these people might have arrived. This is also supported but many many many tribes from Northeast Indian who also claim that their ancestors too have originated in the same basin. Many in Nepal might not be aware but the food habits and traditions of most Northeastern Indian tribes (prior to some fully immersing themselves into the Christianity) are quite similar to that of Kirati tribes and they also belong to the same language family i.e Tibeto-Burman. But I’d love to learn more about your theory about British great conspiracy to say that Eastern Nepal and Darjeeling hills to be exclusively Kirati areas. And that fact that Newar and KHAS ARYAN had legitimate claims over these areas? It’s actually the great that Kiratis and other non KHAS ARYAN folks got the opportunity of modern education which was clearly denied in the then Nepal that they could learn about themselves and tell stories of their ancestors to the newer generation and the world. You say this narrative is bias without realising how bias your random statements is.And yes please do share a link of your sources :) Thanks

@nam3615 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd what in the chatGPT is this...

@dibyeshworsingh3924 7 күн бұрын

The Best podcast and most meaningful podcast in Nepal. Thank u sushant . Amazing show.

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 5 күн бұрын

During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

"Through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Kathmandu valley."

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

"Through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims.Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Kathmandu valley."

@bhiyeemyaktunm2224 19 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdmate you r crushing sentences with loaded heavy information nor you prove yourself writing long sentences and word. If you talking about yourself no one care but if you're horny to reveal evidence. Need to dig whole ktm valley seek grave soil. Every layer of soil have to cranes with chuck of muds. Yatro prithvi 9 billion people ko history tyekka timi nai Liya kina eauta vulnerable community matraii kina linxu? Lu vayo yo dharti ma timrai matraii khandan poila aako theya aba ta chitta bujyo hola gari khau.

@mespangrai5240 8 сағат бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hv and @SandeshKushwaha3924 I guess you are either closely associated or the same person with a mission. Please let me know why you are so much against Rai, Limbu people of Nepal. Did a Rai or Limbu do something bad to you? You are trying to challenge already established history of Kirati people without giving any reliable references. Read late Suniti Kumar Chaterjee ( the renowned Kiratologist), Nepal's number one Sociologist and Anthropologist Prof. Dor Bahadur Bista, Prof. Dr. Surya Mani Adhikary ( Khas specialist, author of The Khas Kingdom), Nepal's number one historian late Babu Ram Acharya for real history of Rai, Limbu and Kirat people.

@acroshrai6414 6 күн бұрын

Part 2 needed.

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.

@homochomosofo 3 күн бұрын

Chup lag na vai @@ranjitamagar-ye1hv Kina batho huna khojxas. Spam na faila

@smartrai2642 6 күн бұрын

Very informative, forever thankful and grateful. Jai Bhojiraj sir🎉🎉🎉🎉

@SabitriGiriSaud 2 күн бұрын

सुसान्त भाइको पोडकास्ट हरु साहै राम्रो लाग्छ ।यस्तै पोडकास्टै माध्यमबाट पनि भाइले धेरै ज्ञानहरू आर्जन गर्नुभएको छ । अहिलेका ज्यापु समूहभित्र पर्ने पुराना किरातीहरू हुन् भन्ने जुन कुरा सरले भन्नुभयो र भाइले भन्नुभयो ।त्यसैले त भनिन्छनेवार भनेको कुनै एउटा जात होइन .नेवार भनेको एउटा समुदाय हो ।यो समुदायमा जुनसुकै जातका व्यक्तिहरू पनि हुन सक्छन् तर यहीको कला संस्कृति परम्पराहरूलाईलाई फलो गरेका हुन्छन् ।यसैको अर्को उदाहरण भनेकोअहिले नेवार समूह भित्र रहेको जोशीहरू सुदूरपश्चिमका ब्राह्मण हुन् । त्यस्तै नेवार भित्रै अहिले रहेको जातमल्लहरू पनि क्षेत्री समुदाय हुन् ।।त्यसैले नेवारलाई एउटा जातसँग मात्रै जोडेर हेर्ने हाम्रो मानसिकतालाई ठूलो बनाउन जरुरी छ।अझै अध्ययन अनुसन्धान गर्न जरूरी छ ।😊😊

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Күн бұрын

seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@sangramrai6658 15 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdतैले नेपाल को नागरिकता पाउनु भन्दा ८००० बर्स अघि नेपाल मा राइ लिम्बु हरु को बस्ती थियो, जुन बेला तेरो जात के हो भनेर नमुना पनि बनेको थियेन भाइ

@ranjanrai6349 11 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd over smart condescending attitude Ur showing as U r in every comment. Let me answer your profound question so I can satisfy your quest of knowing great kirati culture hence U can sleep well or increased insomnia. We kirati are nature worshipper. We are here and enjoying life without any temple or monument or any physical structure. We still practice. Come east U will be amazed how kirati culture is running today without any physical infrastructure. People like U made us to make sumina paruhang idol but still that is not kirati philosophy. So don't be cocksure about urself.

@mespangrai5240 8 сағат бұрын

@@ranjanrai6349 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong ( don't know why- may be sponsored!) They don't seem to know well-established and well- accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) in east Nepal long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim. They have no idea about ancient Gopal Raj Banshawali.

@rabinchamling1735 6 күн бұрын

After watching this video i just subscribed your channel.....to deep dive into the real history of nepal we must study the several unscripted stories of entire indigenous ethnicities of Nepal....very convincing statement Dr. Chamling.

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu people's oral traditions, combined with historical context and cultural parallels, offer a compelling argument for their migration from China to Nepal, seeking refuge in the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms. Here's a breakdown of the supporting evidence: 1. Mundhum and Historical Context: Uprooted from a Harsh Land: The Mundhum, the Limbu scriptures, mention a harsh and cold original homeland. This aligns with the climatic conditions of Sichuan Province in China. Persecution and Long Journey: The mention of persecution and a long journey in the Mundhum resonates with the upheaval caused by Genghis Khan's conquests in the 13th century. These conquests could have displaced Limbu ancestors residing in Sichuan. 2. Distinguishing Limbus from Kirats: Linguistic Evidence: Limbu language, Yakthungpan, belongs to the Sino-Tibetan family, distinct from the Kirati languages. This linguistic difference suggests a separate origin for the Limbus. Quang vs Kirat: The distinction between Quang (Limbus) and Kirat finds support in some historical accounts. This separation strengthens the argument for a distinct migration path for the Limbus. 3. From China to Nepal: Mongol Pressure and Tibetan Influence: The 13th-century Mongol expansion followed by Tibetan dominance in the region could have pressured the Limbus in Sichuan to migrate southward. Cultural Similarities: Shared practices of Limbus and some Sichuan communities point towards a common cultural heritage, potentially carried south during the migration. Sen and Chogyal Kingdoms as Refuge: The relatively peaceful Sen and Chogyal kingdoms in eastern Nepal could have offered a safe haven for the persecuted Limbus, explaining their presence in the region. 4. Weaving the Narrative: The harsh climate and persecution mentioned in the Mundhum align with the historical context of the Mongol conquests in Sichuan. The linguistic distinctiveness and Quang identity further differentiate the Limbus from the Kirats. Combining historical context, cultural similarities, and the potential refuge offered by the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms paints a compelling picture of the Limbu migration journey.

@bhiyeemyaktunm2224 5 күн бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hvDunge yog ma refuge vanne sabda poni vetindo raiixa hai malai ta thaha nai theyana teso va ta poilko Nepal ta aiile samma herda ta India Bata aune, China Bata aune, butan Bata aune, Pakistan Bata aune, Bangladesh Bata aune sabaii refuge raiixa hai dunge yog ko kura garne ho vane. Basha bikas vako koile ho poila Nepal eastern part ma basne sabaii refuge vannu khojeko hai. English type gardaii ma professor vayindaiana. Luh vo timro saka santan poilai bas theya xa gari khau

@user-tg5ut6ic8l 5 күн бұрын

खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@user-tg5ut6ic8l The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@SurenRai-on6sc 15 минут бұрын

कतिपय ठाउँमा हाम्रो किरातीहरूको मन धुम हराउँदै गइरहेको छ यसलाई जगर्ना गर्नुपर्छ।

@birenddreams365 4 күн бұрын

what a great remark regarding knowledge and our knowledge is not in writing but in tales or practical versions. I hope this spreading of knowledge in history telling through podcast itself Is breaking the hegemony of the written culture. great going Sushant and team for this effort. thank you Dr. Chamling expect more of the oral history...

@dibiarc Күн бұрын

V Interesting to know about one’s prehistoric background! If there was English subtitle, international crowd would also get to know about ancient civilisation as ours!

@manbahadurrai4739 Күн бұрын

Bhogiraj ra Susanta jyu lai dherai dherai dhanyabad. Itihas lekhnu bhyema biswasilo dastabej hunexa ra dhan, Nam amar rahanexa.

@ssuuy 3 күн бұрын

We native newars of Kathmandu are mongols. Thank you Bhogiraj sir for putting a light on this important historic fact.

@blastroisehunt6546 2 күн бұрын

Yes and no u guys are like Mexicans 😂

@silly-lantern3464 2 күн бұрын

Again, Kirants are native of Kathmandu not Newars. Wish you’d learn something more from the podcast.

@aa6eheia156 Күн бұрын

@@silly-lantern3464 idiot! clearly its said that Dravidians were first to inhabit the valley more than 51000 years ago while Kirats came to the valley no earlier than 10000 years ago

@babaji2948 Күн бұрын

wrong... newars belongs from BIHAR,VAISALI...

@Santoskc61 Күн бұрын

@@silly-lantern3464Newars are natives of Kathmandu because Newars are fusion between proto-kirata and indo aryan dravid (bihar kingdoms).

@netrabantawa3439 6 күн бұрын

Very interesting . Seems sound . makes one rethink ..many thanks.

@jinkazama1974 4 күн бұрын

This is definitely one of the best Podcast in Nepal. Very informative and interesting.

@whitecreation9982 2 күн бұрын

ईतिहास विदसंग एकचोटी भेट भाथ्यो। अथाह ज्ञानको खानि नै हुनुहुदो रहेछ।

@bheshrajentertainment 3 күн бұрын

भोगीराज आदाङ्बा बाट धेरै कुरा बुझ्ने मौका पाए । म आफू किरात समुदाय कै ब्याक्ती हुदा विशेष मलाई खुब काम लाग्यो । 🙏🙏🙏🙏

@Amkyu 6 күн бұрын

I am a big fan and follower of Bhogiraj Sir. Jaat bhaatamaa najaam, he is the true essence of Nepal. 🙏🙏

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu and Rai: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 5 күн бұрын

During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

"Through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims.Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Kathmandu valley."

@pacman3879 5 күн бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hv I don't know timi Kun chai ko theory ghokera ayera ya comment box ma spam haniraxau. You must be from other side of Nepal (India). Ma ni history kei student ho. You cannot rewrite the history and be delusional whatsoever. Can't change the fact by spamming the comment sections.

@pratapkhas579 4 күн бұрын

@@pacman3879 usle sabai kura proof ko adhar vneko cha. Kirat le Kathmandu ma raj garthyo re vneko adhar ma Hamile pataune prne? Proof khai? Durbar khai? Murti? Documented sila lekh? Euta brick dhari vetidaina, tyo tah mero jiju bajey ko soon ko hatti thiyo re vneko jasto kura vaigoni

@HANGSANG26 9 сағат бұрын

मैले सुन्न चाहेको Podcast ❤❤

@anjutimilsina3623 5 күн бұрын

This interview is so enlightening. Feeling great to learn. Thank you.😊😊😊

@rakong 7 күн бұрын

Wowowowow Bhogi Dai kura Sunna sarai man thiyo❤❤❤ love it

@user-tg5ut6ic8l 5 күн бұрын

खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Kirat Movement by Iman Singh Chemjong: A Baseless and Spiteful Endeavor The Kirat movement, initiated by Iman Singh Chemjong, has long been celebrated as a unifying force among the ethnic groups of Eastern Nepal. However, a closer examination of historical and archaeological evidence reveals that this movement was based on a fabrication, with no substantial historical basis to support its claims. Instead, it was a spiteful and divisive campaign aimed at the Bhutia community. This essay argues that the Kirat movement was founded on falsehoods and had no legitimate grounding in the history of the region. The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@aviale5162 6 күн бұрын

I don´t know ...history is right or wrong but I like this kind of stories...such a wonderful podcast.❤❤❤ One thing I am not a historian but..the ` di´ word is from magar language which means water..

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

"Through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims.Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Kathmandu valley."

@narendrayakthungba8171 5 күн бұрын

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3LUiWewgZacjNEsi=4CFNDkVAON0DaKDH

@jeremyrai3850 3 күн бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hvit's not just oral histories . There is also written history which is written in gopal raj vamsavali(a manuscript which was written in 14th century. Mind you this is before british ) and also in mahabarat there is mention of kirat dynasty it is said that the king of kirat fought along with the kauravs. So stop spreading false information. I have also read your others comments regarding darjeeling. Let me tell we Rai and limbu of nepal never said we were the ruler of Darjeeling. And if the rais and limbus of darjeeling says so they don't know their history.

@aa6eheia156 3 күн бұрын

@@jeremyrai3850 Yeah the Rai, Limbu and other Nepali speaking communities in Sikkim have been playing very dirty identity politics for a long time. They don't know their real history and all those who pride themselves as Indian Gorkha have learnt fake histories about Gorkha people from their Indian school curriculums.

@mespangrai5240 8 сағат бұрын

@@jeremyrai3850 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong. They don't seem to know well-established and accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim.

@cleverfox8267 6 күн бұрын

Thank you sushant for presenting this important season

@anishatamang7618 3 күн бұрын

People from harisiddhi lalitpur are the direct descendants of kiratis as per my grandmother. She is too from harisiddhi and she is no more today❤❤❤

@randomvideoz4715 3 күн бұрын

मौखिक इतिहासको महत्व यति धेरै हुने रै'छ, छर्लंग भयो। सरको किताब पनि हेर्न पाइयोस्।

@acroshrai6414 6 күн бұрын

We need part 2.

@nirajshrestha1758 6 күн бұрын

45:00 - Newari word has been converted into nepali word by adding "La" like Nepa - Nepal, Thabahi - thamel, Chabahi - chabel , CHYASA (newari meaning of 800, chya means 8, sa means 100) - Chyasal ...

@theObliviousone-jf6yn 6 күн бұрын

It was a Chinese tradition that was adopted by Tibetans and brought down to Nepal after the 9th century.

@user-sz1fx3om7q Күн бұрын

Jaa wakheu- jawalakhel La waakheu- lagankhel

@nirajshrestha1758 Күн бұрын

@@theObliviousone-jf6yn even newari months have "la" in end like kaula, Gunla, Kachala but i don't think words like Nepal, Chyasal dates back to 9th century & introduced by Tibetians,..still i would be interested if i get reference of this

@RAISUJAN 6 күн бұрын

Very true and logical podcast

@samsingbotamlingyakthung 5 сағат бұрын

ज्ञानबर्दक लाग्याे येस कुराकानि😊😊

@sureshasuresha6520 5 күн бұрын

Kathmandu उपत्यका मा चल्ने संस्कृति हरुले पनि इतिहास को झल्को दिन्छ। खेती संस्कृति, धान र वर्षा, आसाम का मछिन्द्रनाथ, काठमाडौंं का नाथ सम्प्रदाय, नाग सप्रदाय सबै इतिहासले संस्कृति बनाई आजसम्म निरन्तर चलिनाएको छ।

@sunitagurung7161 4 күн бұрын

Thanks both of u

@anujshresthaCBGN 20 сағат бұрын

one of the best episode , full of unheard knowledge

@99sacrifice 6 күн бұрын

Very insightful, based on facts and non bias.

@DevLimbu-xl4rg 6 күн бұрын

Great analysis

@Bajra9432 7 күн бұрын

Informative ❤

@BinayakRai 6 күн бұрын

Informative lagyo.

@DhanKhaling 5 күн бұрын

मलाई चै एकदम गज्जब लाग्यो, धेरै कुर जान्ने मौका मिल्यो धन्यवाद सुशन्त र भोगी दाई 🙏🏼

@user-tg5ut6ic8l 5 күн бұрын

खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।

@raikrishna4562 5 күн бұрын

Seworo..Ko ko Rai haru xam,like garum tw hjr..

@nishatamang3117 7 күн бұрын

I’m regular viewers of your all episodes. I appreciate this shows. Personally I would like to request to invite Botonist/ social researcher Kamal Maden as a guest.

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

"The Mundhum, the Limbu scriptures, mention a harsh and cold original homeland. This aligns with the climatic conditions of Sichuan Province in China. Persecution and Long Journey: The mention of persecution and a long journey in the Mundhum resonates with the upheaval caused by Genghis Khan's conquests in the 13th century. These conquests could have displaced Limbu ancestors residing in Sichuan."

@santirai3892 4 күн бұрын

Thank you sir for sharing very informative knowledge about ours history, especially mundum ,kirati 🙏🙏

@sudeepmalakar3781 6 күн бұрын

Excelent explanation... धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद 🕉️🕉️🕉️🙏🙏🙏

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu people's oral traditions, combined with historical context and cultural parallels, offer a compelling argument for their migration from China to Nepal, seeking refuge in the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms. Here's a breakdown of the supporting evidence: 1. Mundhum and Historical Context: Uprooted from a Harsh Land: The Mundhum, the Limbu scriptures, mention a harsh and cold original homeland. This aligns with the climatic conditions of Sichuan Province in China. Persecution and Long Journey: The mention of persecution and a long journey in the Mundhum resonates with the upheaval caused by Genghis Khan's conquests in the 13th century. These conquests could have displaced Limbu ancestors residing in Sichuan. 2. Distinguishing Limbus from Kirats: Linguistic Evidence: Limbu language, Yakthungpan, belongs to the Sino-Tibetan family, distinct from the Kirati languages. This linguistic difference suggests a separate origin for the Limbus. Quang vs Kirat: The distinction between Quang (Limbus) and Kirat finds support in some historical accounts. This separation strengthens the argument for a distinct migration path for the Limbus. 3. From China to Nepal: Mongol Pressure and Tibetan Influence: The 13th-century Mongol expansion followed by Tibetan dominance in the region could have pressured the Limbus in Sichuan to migrate southward. Cultural Similarities: Shared practices of Limbus and some Sichuan communities point towards a common cultural heritage, potentially carried south during the migration. Sen and Chogyal Kingdoms as Refuge: The relatively peaceful Sen and Chogyal kingdoms in eastern Nepal could have offered a safe haven for the persecuted Limbus, explaining their presence in the region. 4. Weaving the Narrative: The harsh climate and persecution mentioned in the Mundhum align with the historical context of the Mongol conquests in Sichuan. The linguistic distinctiveness and Quang identity further differentiate the Limbus from the Kirats. Combining historical context, cultural similarities, and the potential refuge offered by the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms paints a compelling picture of the Limbu migration journey.

@rajeshrai8811 3 күн бұрын

Very informative and knowledgeable podcast

@hamrochannel1029 7 күн бұрын

thank you❤❤❤😊

@supriyarai6406 6 күн бұрын

A must watch!!

@binodlimbu9713 4 күн бұрын

Worth listening podcast, such a deep understanding with simplistic explanation, much respect for your works Bhogiraj, oral tradition is alive, eg Mundhum is a science and story telling passed from generations to generations from ancestors. We have rich history of cultures, stories, traitions, true Nepalese identities should be promoted and saved and be proud of it.

@pratapkhas579 4 күн бұрын

There is no historical evidence of kirat ruling in Kathmandu everything is based on ' re ' not a single brick of archiloglical evidence is provided by kirat community to back up their stories we can tell the gopalas we're the first kings of Kathmandu valley because of foundations of pashupati, where as kirat claim they ruled over 25000 years but not a single stone carving exist to back up their claim ruling in kathmandu and east part of nepal, let's say for once kirat ruled over whole nepal!!! Then why is not even 10 percent of population speaking kirati who ruled for thousand of years and when asked to show the evidence of kirat and limbu ruling in east they often point out to forts and durbars of vijaypur & chaudandi built by mukunda sen which is well preserved and documented, only people of Kathmandu valley were real Nepali, rest of 54 kingdoms were never been part of nepal, since gorkha unified rest of 22 24 thakuri small kingdoms plus land of terai which belong to india manang mustang which belong to Tibet khas empire, kings of gorkha has legitimate right to call it a gorkha land unlike bhutias and north eastern Indian who have stolen the name gorkha land in sikkim & dorjeeling now darjeeling

@eirosgame8701 3 күн бұрын

After long time I listen great podcast with historic knowledge

@chandrarai9030 19 сағат бұрын

Great informative❤

@arm6255 3 күн бұрын

Yo Kirati story maile Pani Mero baju bat suneko ho . Uaha le vaneko thauma aile Pani Banda xa Ra Kirati raja tyahi gayab vako ho Ra atle Pani tyajako ko rukh katda whole body ma ghau aauxau

@ambeerai2869 3 күн бұрын

Mundhum ko barema dherai bujna paiyo...and Kirati history ko barema Pani..❤

@shantarai1641 16 сағат бұрын

Mundhum ko barema aajhai dhera hami kirati rai haru aajhai dherai jagnu parne hunchha jay kirat proud to be Rai

@asimsunuwar398 5 күн бұрын

Thanks for this episode. More interesting. Ani hamro savyata ra sanskriti ka bisaya ma aru pani video liyera aanus. Coming generaration lai vannu important xa. Yesto podcast ra aru short videos bata information spark garnu helpful hunusakxa. Thanks.❤

@zokera001 5 күн бұрын

The historical information on Chyasal of Patan was striking. Section on "natural medicines' was impressive.

@ajitrai5796 5 күн бұрын

Very informative, love it❤

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@Mash_Ree Күн бұрын

अत्तीनै दामी ❤❤ हेर्न र सुन्नै पर्ने ।।

@lilambernepali9278 2 күн бұрын

बरिस्ठ सिमाबिद बुद्धि नारायण श्रेष्ठ ज्यु र फनिन्द्र नेपाल को पोड कास्ट पनि ल्याउन पर्यो दाजु

@SUMANMAMATA Күн бұрын

Excited 😊

@arjun10able 5 күн бұрын

Amazing episode. We need More history content 👍

@nareshshakya4170 5 күн бұрын

Very nicely explained 👍👍

@navinrai6079 8 сағат бұрын

Very important interview

@user-py5px5wc3m 7 күн бұрын

Wow! So Interesting History 🙏Sir

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 7 күн бұрын

The Migration of Rais and Limbus from Sichuan to Tibet to Nepal in 17th Century Eastern Nepal boasts a rich tapestry of ethnicities, each adding a vibrant thread to the region's cultural identity. The Limbus and Rais are prominent among them, but unlike the Sen Thakuris whose reign is documented in stone, their origins remain shrouded in mystery. This chapter argues that the archaeological and historical evidence points towards a recent migration for the Limbus and Rais, rather than a direct connection to the ancient Kiratas, and positions them as refugees seeking refuge amidst the political turmoil of the 17th century. The archaeological landscape of Eastern Nepal presents a contrasting picture. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled for over six centuries, left behind a legacy in stone. Forts like Makawanpur, Udayapur, and Bijaypur, along with remnants in present-day Sikkim, stand as testaments to their centralized power and established kingdom. These structures not only solidify their long-standing presence but also highlight their administrative capabilities. In contrast, the archaeological footprint of the Limbus and Rais remains elusive. Their settlements, often nestled in the foothills, might not have been conducive to monumental architecture. Additionally, their cultural practices, relying heavily on oral traditions, leave a less readily apparent mark on the historical record. However, the absence of grand palaces doesn't negate their existence; it merely points towards a different mode of life. While some scholars posit a connection between the Limbus and Rais and the ancient Kiratis mentioned in Indian texts, the exact location of the Kirat remains debated. It's possible that the Kirati people represent an ancestral link, but the archaeological and historical evidence suggests a more recent arrival for the Limbus and Rais themselves. A compelling argument for a recent migration emerges from the upheaval caused by the Mongol conquests of the 13th-14th centuries. The vast displacement of populations across Asia during this period suggests that the Limbus and Rais, originally residing in Sichuan province in China or neighboring areas, might have been caught in this wave. This theory aligns with the suggestion that they first migrated to Northern Tibet before eventually reaching Nepal. The 17th century in Nepal witnessed a period of political instability with the weakening of the Malla dynasty in Kathmandu. This power vacuum in the east might have presented an opportunity for the Limbus and Rais, seeking refuge from the aftermath of the Mongol conquests, to establish themselves in the foothills. Interestingly, both the Sen kings of Eastern Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim employed Limbu and Rai soldiers. This suggests a period of accommodation where these newly arrived communities offered their military prowess in exchange for a safe haven. Over time, this integration process likely involved cultural exchange and adaptation, shaping the unique social fabric of Eastern Nepal that we see today.

@narendrayakthungba8171 7 күн бұрын

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3LUiWewgZacjNEsi=kZ_trngVKhopQ_X3

@narendrayakthungba8171 7 күн бұрын

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3LUiWewgZacjNEsi=kZ_trngVKhopQ_X3

@themikki8360 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd stop this fucking bulshit 😂😂chill bro

@nam3615 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd "Tapestry"...i know a chatGPT sentence when i see one.

@purnimalawati7871 19 сағат бұрын

Dherai etihash bujna payo Dhanyabat 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

@universal1772 5 күн бұрын

Informative 👍

@prad33pgrg 5 күн бұрын

this is more interesting than Game Of Thrones.

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@terishal775 5 күн бұрын

Very insightful just wow

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@neelbung 7 күн бұрын

Wow❤

@LeembuRoshan 4 күн бұрын

Thank you so much for the history and also expecting more history about Nepal .

@journey9184 21 сағат бұрын

Dharae ramro podcast aajhai vasa varna jat bara bisesh chalfal vayako podcast launu paryo

@gudiyaacharya8724 3 күн бұрын

Interesting podcast salaam

@rajukhaling556 4 күн бұрын

Very interesting and informative. Great podcast.🙏🙏

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@ashistamang581 6 күн бұрын

This show never disappoints me ❤❤❤❤

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 5 күн бұрын

During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

@@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@shivakumarrai9027 5 күн бұрын

त्यो बुढा दाजु संङग त्यो झार वा बनस्पति चिनाई माग्नु होला नत्र त्यो कुरा लोप हुन्छ । हजुरले उहा संङग अनुरोध गर्नु होला चामलिङ ज्यु ।

@manjushreenath7597 7 күн бұрын

Tha k you sushant bro sewa sewaro 🙏

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।

@charismaticklopp3024 6 күн бұрын

@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdtaro guff Sunda raxaul tira KO tapare dhoti jasto suninxa ni... Am I correct?

@Binodtimilsina9400 3 күн бұрын

Interesting history 🙏🏻🙏🏼

@sureshpariyar7300 20 сағат бұрын

भोगिराज सरको ज्ञानको ५% मात्र यस episode मा थाहा भयो। अझ बढी जानकारी थाहा पाउन धेरै episodes बनाउन जरुरी छ।

@bg33128 7 күн бұрын

Playlist banaidinus na dai.. Proper indexing vayesi audience kata badi interested xan vanera account hunxa hajur lai ni ..

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।

@sunilsyangba3732 2 күн бұрын

U r doing great susant g next episode haru ma tamang ko history ko barema pani video banaunu hola please

@bjime8714 2 күн бұрын

हो चितुको जराले एक रातमा हाड भाचिएको त होइन तर मड्किएर सुन्निएको मेरो हात २४ घन्टामा निको भयो तर पुरै मासु जलाईदिन्छ,यो कुरा सत्य हो,

@dipendrarai8129 3 күн бұрын

logical content

@KiratRai58 5 күн бұрын

Sarai ramro kura bujhiyo

@Chatur-fp4zg 6 күн бұрын

Rai ko xoroharumapani knowledge ko kami xaina vanne chai yo episode herera prasta hunx .keep going on sir keep working to kiraty culture n people... more....

@Muigokusama 6 күн бұрын

Tapai rai ho?

@mandeepkatwal1270 6 күн бұрын

Exactly bro kirat. Boudhi ra hindu hamro moulik dharma ho suru ma kirati haru ani hindi ani boudhik dharma nepal ma aako ho we should save.... euta kirati christain huna sakcha euta hindu christain ma pariwaartan huna sakcha tara euta christain bhayeko manche farkindaina eti samma ki 10 barsa ko love bhayeni christain ma convert hunna bhanyo bhaney uni harule chodidinchan... no freedom in two religion xtain ani muslim .hami harulai ekarka ma ladara desh lai xtain ra muslim desh banauna lagiraxaan

@Aakashko 6 күн бұрын

Raiharu chhetri bahun vnda kam xoen ho nplma... Rajya satta matrai bahunko hatma x so Sable bahunko jhola boker aafulai das nabanau

@Millionaire_Rai_Adcb 6 күн бұрын

@@mandeepkatwal1270fact yo desh suruma hindu kirat sangsanai milera samaj baseko thyo.aba Christian ley bistapit garla jasto vo

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 6 күн бұрын

@@mandeepkatwal1270 The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.

@pragyakiju7841 3 күн бұрын

It was a really nice informative talk; it would be really nice if you could list all the books that guests refer to!

@wordswave7317 6 күн бұрын

inviting bharat dahal, saurabh and biksasananda will change the dimention of this show.

@harirai7611 13 сағат бұрын

सत्य हो यो खोज लामाखुको म पनि हो, भुसुरीको सन्तान हौ हामी

@nomadicjoyride3699 3 күн бұрын

Beautiful content, thank you sushant. Be rational, keep decency

@NABINRAII 3 сағат бұрын

Still more things to be included . Anyways worth to watch this podcast ❤

@nabinniraula9267 4 күн бұрын

Great History 🙏🏽

@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd 4 күн бұрын

The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.

@pasang2256 5 күн бұрын

Such an interesting podcast. You need to invite him again. I think he has more things to say 😅

@anmollimbu2746 20 сағат бұрын

The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.

@whiteshadow8049 7 күн бұрын

❤❤❤

@ranjitamagar-ye1hv 6 күн бұрын

The Limbu people's oral traditions, combined with historical context and cultural parallels, offer a compelling argument for their migration from China to Nepal, seeking refuge in the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms. Here's a breakdown of the supporting evidence: 1. Mundhum and Historical Context: Uprooted from a Harsh Land: The Mundhum, the Limbu scriptures, mention a harsh and cold original homeland. This aligns with the climatic conditions of Sichuan Province in China. Persecution and Long Journey: The mention of persecution and a long journey in the Mundhum resonates with the upheaval caused by Genghis Khan's conquests in the 13th century. These conquests could have displaced Limbu ancestors residing in Sichuan. 2. Distinguishing Limbus from Kirats: Linguistic Evidence: Limbu language, Yakthungpan, belongs to the Sino-Tibetan family, distinct from the Kirati languages. This linguistic difference suggests a separate origin for the Limbus. Quang vs Kirat: The distinction between Quang (Limbus) and Kirat finds support in some historical accounts. This separation strengthens the argument for a distinct migration path for the Limbus. 3. From China to Nepal: Mongol Pressure and Tibetan Influence: The 13th-century Mongol expansion followed by Tibetan dominance in the region could have pressured the Limbus in Sichuan to migrate southward. Cultural Similarities: Shared practices of Limbus and some Sichuan communities point towards a common cultural heritage, potentially carried south during the migration. Sen and Chogyal Kingdoms as Refuge: The relatively peaceful Sen and Chogyal kingdoms in eastern Nepal could have offered a safe haven for the persecuted Limbus, explaining their presence in the region. 4. Weaving the Narrative: The harsh climate and persecution mentioned in the Mundhum align with the historical context of the Mongol conquests in Sichuan. The linguistic distinctiveness and Quang identity further differentiate the Limbus from the Kirats. Combining historical context, cultural similarities, and the potential refuge offered by the Sen and Chogyal kingdoms paints a compelling picture of the Limbu migration journey.

@Tobiraaaama 3 күн бұрын

Just read about lho men tsong treaty and Treaty of salt and water between gorkhas and Limbus.. But I think certain clans came from Tibet region as well as terai region to be included in Limbus later ..This thing must be common in others too

@rockhangrai868 5 күн бұрын

waiting for next episode also

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EP 280: Bhogiraj Chamling | Kathmandu's History, Kirati History | Sushant Pradhan Podcast

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