Swim Explains Attach Interactions for 8 Minutes and 10 Seconds

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#LegendsofRuneterra #Swim #LoR

[@Swimstrim]

I Swim, I Strim, but on the inside i Scrim twitch.tv/swimstrim

[@brokeguy5607]

Give us a broken Yuumi deck already...

[@jeremyb5080]

@@brokeguy5607 we got the scout attach and mask mother attach decks

[@euklio5917]

oh really when is the last time u swam?

[@chronomirageYT]

No you don't strim?

[@hanabiilesley]

Stream whennn

[@Rumu11]

Bonus rule: They don't give negative keywords to their attached unit, so you can give an attach unit ephemeral with no downside :)

[@alifizharulhaq3370]

Cmiiw, but ephemeral etc doesn't count as a keyword

[@leagueofrazor]

nice info, hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time

[@fade6827]

@@leagueofrazor no

[@leagueofrazor]

@@fade6827 ok :)

[@fateheraclesillya527]

@@alifizharulhaq3370 it count as negative keyword, like when you silence the ephemeral unit, they don't die at that round end that mean ephemeral is keyword but in negative way

[@TMKing_MS]

Damn, Swim has a PhD in brokology. The study of finding what's broken.

[@vipfernandes94]

brocolis

[@leagueofrazor]

broken not must to be fix, hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time

[@franciscofernandez8183]

Attach keyboard should actually read: "You can choose to play me on an ally instead of the board, to give them my stats and keywords while I am attached. When that ally leaves your board to go somewhere else or you attach another unit to that ally, Recall me." It probably was way too long to include in this form, so they erased some key parts from the text explanation. The text we get lacks a lot of the description needed while still being the longest keyword description by far. All the weird interactions stems from the fact that an attach unit is never summon into the board while affecting another unit that actually is in the board. Most buffs are writen in the card they are buffing, attached units aren't like that. The buffs ar writen in a different card that the one receiving buffs. That's the whole difference. For example, units lose their buffs and any other "added text" (such as silence) when they leave the board. Attached units don't lose any buff or added text because they never leave the board (remember, they never were on the board to begin with). Entomb & ancient hourglass interactions came from the fact that those cards text doesn't tell you what they actually do: they obliterate a unit to create an exact copy that will be summon when the landmark countsdown to 0. The weirdness comes because the attached unit is still buffing the original card, not the copy. Since the original copy was obliterated instead of leaving the board (to go elsewhere) means that the attached unit doesn't get recalled. Instead the attached card is now stuck in limbo buffing a unit that's no longer in the board. Making an exact copy does that, it makes an exact copy. It's not like it copies the card AND the attached card, Just the one card. This why the exact copies don't have the buffs that the attached unit grant, because those buffs weren't in the original card to begin with! They were on the attached card!

[@christiansesler3395]

The phrasing "to go elsewhere" is still ambiguous imo. it implies that a unit that dies is going elsewhere but that a unit that is obliterated is not going elsewhere. with the lack of a graveyard system in LoR I think this wording still doesn't work

[@nerdstrong]

This is MtG levels of rules interaction. Thanks for going over all this craziness

[@tonymonteverde-talarico3261]

Welp, this is a good excuse to stay in my Lab of Legends lane. Thanks Swim!

[@markwilliams5604]

They deleted lab of legends Sadge

[@SuperLotus]

You can play Yuumi in Path of Champions tho

[@tonymonteverde-talarico3261]

@@markwilliams5604 Right, Path of Champions. I miss Lab of Legends :(

[@leagueofrazor]

hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time

[@alexstewart9592]

Here's a REALLY wack one I found against Veigar in the Path of Champions: effects that cause an Attach card to be played twice (or summon a copy of an Attach card you play) cause you to gain a second copy of the Attach card on your board, and if you actually attached them to somthing this second copy will be an on-board unit with the text of the Attached version (complete with the Attach keyword marker) but it actually counts as being on-board and you can attach somthing else to it - also note that since it has the wrong text a Yuumi made in this way won't work properly - she doesn't grow, she can't advance her own level-up condition and generally has no effect, although she CAN level-up as a result of the Yuumi that was actually attached to a unit attacking, which will give her the +1/+1 and Spellshield from the level-up increasing her base stats, but won't give her the extra +1/+1 and second spellshield from the level-up triggering her Round Start effect.

[@vengerofthelight]

So many exceptions. Such an inelegant mechanic. Thanks, Swim.

[@pedropradacarciofi2517]

Even ignoring the inconsistencys it's very bizzare design Most Voltron (ie: stacking buffs) strategys are vulnerable to singular removal. Remove the buffed creature and they lose the equivalent of several cards This is how it works on most games. Stack enchantments on Magic the Gathering and you lose them all when the creature dies But attach works in reverse. You can stack buffs all you want and never lose card advantage because (save onbliterate) you allways get everything back

[@Korinengamecorp]

It is very confusing. BUT it is also works consistently. I'm pretty that I can explain any "exception" as just inherent things that happens when the rules are applied (it's just that the rules are poorly explained).

[@zackc4466]

So it’s like Yu-Gi-Oh

[@Boguinnn]

@@pedropradacarciofi2517 but you really haven't argued why it's bizarre design. You've only argued that it works different than in other games, which is fine or even good. And there are even examples of cards and mechanics in other card games that work similarly (equipment in magic, val'anyr in hearthstone from the top of my head). Not losing card advantage when the buffed unit dies has upsides and downsides designwise. The upside is that the cards become playable without needing incredibly strong effects/support. For example equip spell cards in yugioh are almost unplayable unless the card is mega broken, or the archetype the card is played in has insane equip support. The potential downside for not losing card advantage, is that the cards provide a certain amount of inevitability, since the opponent will eventually run out of answers, while you keep the buff cards in hand. But in my opinion this really isn't a problem in LoR. If anything LoR could use some more inevitability.

[@Yous0147]

@@Boguinnn I agree here, I think the reason why attach works the way it does is exactly because the designers looked into equip and aura cards from other card games and wanted to facilitate something better that actually works. Similarly in MTG, both equip and aura cards are either never played, or they're broken or they're really just an engine card masquerading as an eqiup/aura. The fact that they managed to make the concept work so well in LoR relatively speaking (despite how weird it is) is a marvel really. Besides, one cool aspect of the weirdness is that it brings about an exploratory aspect that you rarely have in card games, usually that only comes about in deck building, and having it be consistent is both important and a big plus in making the unorthodox rules actually seem legitimate and fair despite the learning curve.

[@krejz1078]

In POC i learned something strange about this mechanic, when enemy will try obliterate your unit with for example yuumi atached and u will protect ur unit with spellshield, yuumi will be obliterated, but unit will not loose stats. That's really wierd interaction

[@johntheawesome6009]

In Poc?in People of color?

[@rara2ra2yrra3racjj2]

@@johntheawesome6009 Path of Champions bruv

[@ClandestineMerkaba]

@@johntheawesome6009 Damn dude, your brain is gobbledygook.

[@johntheawesome6009]

@@ClandestineMerkaba The joke 🛩️ 🧠

[@ClandestineMerkaba]

@@johntheawesome6009 Right. That's such a low bar for humor, only Rek'Sai could limbo it.

[@3goldfish]

This has to be the first keyword that doesn't fully explain itself in the game, wow. Still, it's mostly(looking at you, papercraft) balanced, but they really need to pay attention to what they'll do in the future to not break the mechanic.

[@braaaaaaaaaaaaaains]

How can you break a mechanic that is already completely broken ? I don't mean the balance, but it is so extremely counter intuitive and breaks multiple long established mechanics / rules.

[@rheyn8356]

Definitely not to the same extent of being unintuitive but granting keywords isn't fully explained either. There's no in-client list of keywords that Viktor/Hothead/Porobot can get and the list they can access is different from the list of keywords that can be shared by Sivir/Zoe/Give it All. E.g. Deep can be shared and instantly buff your board +3/+3 with Zoe but Viktor can't roll Deep as a keyword. Same goes for Double Attack, Lurk, Formidable and a few others. There's a funny interaction with Capture where if the original captor card is cloned, e.g. by Splinter Soul, both bodies are considered to be capturing the same target, so if either dies, the target is released. Found that one out the hard way in PoC. Stunned units can still battle if by another effect cast on them after being stunned, like Ruined Reckoner or Cataclysm. Units that summon extra bodies on summon, e.g. House Spider, appear to create the main body first, but the secondary body hits the board first when resolving effects like Roiling Sands. If a unit is summoned to a full board on the stack during combat that would kill a unit to make space, like by Concussive Palm, the new unit is still obliterated as the board is full when it tries to enter, but if it's summoned by an in-combat effect, like Braum, it waits until combat resolves to land on board. It's never been as usable as Attach, but card games, especially digital card games, have always and will always have weird fringe interactions between card effects. It's just part of the genre.

[@shai310]

I feel like adding attach units is going to be problomatic because I think they are very hard units to balance.

[@Yous0147]

I dunno, I love attach. It's the first real keyword alongside forged in a long while that actually feel unique and makes you play in a completely different way. On the other spectrum, I really dislike fated, exactly because it's really just an overly strong yet painfully similar way of playing as before fated was a thing.

[@leagueofrazor]

best keyword, hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time

[@RemiAutor]

Not even CLOSE to all of them. Didn't mention that Recalls from attached units are not actually recalls, meaning they don't level Yasuo or Ahri and don't buff Fae Bladetwirler, even though Fae Bladetwirler has Fae in their name and you would think there'd be synergy.

[@jalcome4201]

Its so easy to just say "return me to hand" instead of using a literal keyword. Its such an avoidable mistake. Oh well, guess its also easy to fix then

[@leagueofrazor]

hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time :D

[@ClandestineMerkaba]

Oof, that's a bummer. Seemed like an obvious one. tsk tsk devs...

[@raspy__]

U said one thing

[@gabriellefton6389]

Defective swapbot takes the combined stats and sets the attach stack to 4/3. It might be that all freezes and stat setting override the attach

[@480darkshadow]

Does the attach unit come back as a 4/3? Or goes back to normal stats

[@gabriellefton6389]

@@480darkshadow I don't expect the attach unit to be affected

[@ReflinWulf]

and also when attached units gets recalled they don't count as recalled for yasuo, ahri etc.

[@Anonymous-nm6zn]

You forgot to mention that Attached Spellshield can still be popped/silenced, even while other Attached Keywords can't.

[@Banana-senpai]

Rito: "we don't want to make fast speed silences or freezes because it is too complicated" EVEN tho it could be a good way to balance things Also rito: FUCKING ATTACH

[@Yous0147]

I think a dev cleared out that the reason behind not making fast speed silences and freezes is because of their binary nature, if you respond with a stat or skill buff while it's on the stack you'll end up surprised that your buff gets shut down because your buff goes first, then the freeze/silence second. This feels horrible, especially if you're new and learning the game you might fall for this a couple of times and it might be a deal breaker. Some people would argue that's just part of learning a competetive card game, but I'm sure the devs would argue that that kind of design is what makes LoR in general feel much less punishing than a lot of other card games.

[@leagueofrazor]

hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time :)

[@astonerdarkly222]

fast freeze or silence can't be balanced, you could only respond after they resolved (ie : after combat)

[@LazyLee]

Yuumi is basically an XYZ overlay material in Yu-Gi-Oh

[@Yous0147]

I personally really like attach, it's such a unique keyword that unlocks a completely different way of using your cards and the weird ruleset that comes with it is a nice exploratory aspect to the game that you so rarely find in card games in general. I definitely get that people would find it too weird, but personally I vastly prefer this over something simple but boring, and imo easily exploitable, namely fated.

[@OneUniti]

Swim hitting us with that “ONE MOAR THING” a la Grandpa from Jackie Chan in this episode

[@williamgarth994]

Also you can't have more than one thing attached to the same unit fsr. The first attacher will recall if you attach a second attacher to the same unit.

[@GrimmBones]

Get yourself someone with as in-depth knowledge of you as Swim's knowledge in Attach.

[@jeffdai269]

4:44 Time to take this of context :)

[@AEVAN00B]

Meanwhile Magnetic in Hearthstone: haha funny robots go *UNITY, PRECISION, PERFECTION*

[@elijahmoore9414]

Also I believe the recall doesn't trigger effects that activate when a unit is recalled. Probably because the unit was never in play to being with but still weird to use the word recall.

[@bryandiaz4541]

You are correct only exception is if an “attached” keyword unit is actually in play on the board

[@leagueofrazor]

hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time :D

[@Jayfire88]

Swim is a LoR Thesaurus !!!!

[@LiquidWasabi]

That's some riot 200 years shit right there

[@124blazer]

I also witnessed that if a unit has an attached unit on it, and the original unit successfully uses spell shield against an obliterate effect, then the unit retains the buffs and keywords from the attached unit, but the attach unit is still gone and will not recall to hand when the unit eventually dies. This is perhaps the least intuitive interaction I've seen and I feel like surely counts as a bug.

[@NoneYaBp]

i zoned out so hard i thought i fainted

[@randomname8616]

Whoever is editing for the channel, feel free to plug yourself in the discription

[@ValdisTan]

Riot: there are no bugs only features

[@pie7747]

entomb can obliterate attach units. so it is a fine removal for attach unit with fast and affordable mana spent

[@clashcrafter]

Don't forget that the recall back to hand when the unit is destroyed (or switches sides) isn't a recall and won't proc yasuo/ahri/blade twirler

[@adelmosallami]

Okay swim now you have to build herald of magus + siphoning strike with yuumi

[@vicious3526]

U ever coming back? Get yourself cleaned up, apologize, and pick back up where you were!

[@alexfisher4442]

So how does defective swapbot work when you target an attach unit?

[@Chloe-ju7jp]

Don't stacking powder kegs count as played but not summoned?

[@user-iq9rj4le2f]

"Swim should rap"

[@ahmetsezginn]

also it doesnt actually recall at all. in addition to keeping buffs it also doesn't count for yasuo lvl up

[@enriquediaz3336]

I haven't watched the video yet but just from watch the thumbnail and tittle it simply solidify why swim it's such an important part of the runeterra community when it comes down to providing proper gameplay mechanics and intricacies on how major parts of the game works......also I was a victim of the hourglass ,thought I was being slick with Akshan/yuumi and I had Akshan with her equipped and he was at 1 hp when the opponent decided to ping him and so I used hourglass and it summoned the landmark but both Akshan and yuumi died, lost the game on the spot🥲, so let's see 👀 how swim explains that disaster 😀

[@ivanchoz]

Also, it doesn't say anywhere that you can't attach 2 units on the same unit

[@qbx1094]

Does playing cards after Glorious Evolution give +2 power for unit with attached?

[@Jayfire88]

Good question

[@shapeshiftingassasin]

It shouldn’t since you can’t stack the augment keyword and augment only triggers for units on the board.

[@leagueofrazor]

i will try, hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time

[@jonad9504]

I had to watch the part with the exact copy 3 times and im still not sure i got it.

[@saaudzuberi8709]

This seems to predate the Field Promotion Fae deck. Weird to have this video come out after that and the SI version.

[@acoolnameemm]

2 minutes in and I have absolutely no idea what I am listening to

[@imrightbehindyou452]

A guy said double attack zed shadow 😂😂😂

[@justsomebadjuju1120]

But why does attach work for field promotion but not level two Nocturne?

[@danieelmanso]

This video is perfect

[@Lilybun]

What happens to the hand buff barrier on a recalled attach unit? Does the barrier count as being down on the second summon or does it get re-activated or what?

[@thelovebelow9165]

I just need someone... ANYONE... to explain why on earth if I hush a follower with an attach card, that it gets to keep its stats and keywords?

[@ClandestineMerkaba]

They dropped the ball with the _Out of the Way_ interaction though, unfortunately...

[@Ven_detta_]

wasn't this video supposed to come out like over a week ago

[@f.akhsanthufail3694]

how about the mechanized mimic interaction swimmmm?

[@DanteMustLearn]

My brain hurts 🧠 🤕

[@vicious3526]

Could quicken worn on a unit equipped with yummi?

[@SemenEagle]

Liar! It is 8 minutes and 9 seconds! And if we count outro it will be about 7 minutes and 58 seconds. Conclusion - you tried to bait us!

[@sonicdueler]

Bonus rule: attacking with a unit attached does not count as attacking alone. So if you only have poppy on board and you put yumii inside her, she is no longer attacking alone and does trigger her Stat buff

[@gustavsymann6133]

But how you can kill Yuumi than? Some examples?

[@rezasevenson6026]

he didnt speak about captures

[@matesconoliver3841]

What about capture?

[@modiej578]

I actually do have a question. Since the attach keyword says Recall, does enemy Yasuo strikes yummi when the attached unit dies?

[@AEVAN00B]

no, it's a friendly recall (which actually isn't even a recall - it won't level Yasuo/Ahri or buff Fae Bladetwirler)

[@leagueofrazor]

hello i'm starting a yt channel playing legends of runeterra please come if you have time :)

[@matthewotremba1531]

It’s frustrating because players of LOR are always deliberately misinterpreting the wording. Attached units are not units, they’re attached units. Anything that applies to units applies to units, not attached units.

[@swittchblade]

Did you even watch the video? Clearly somethings that apply to units apply to attach units as if they were regular units. It's an inconsistent mechanic. People aren't purposely making it obtuse and make no sense.

[@DogginsFroggins]

No, they just suck at explaining things.

[@matthewotremba1531]

@@swittchblade what do you mean? Provide a specific example.

[@matthewotremba1531]

@@DogginsFroggins in my experience, more often than not, the player imposes a more complicated meaning on a piece of wording in card text than the wording would mean.

[@swittchblade]

@@matthewotremba1531 Field promotion is the most obvious example

[@taba1506]

I actually lost a game Because my viego stole the Unit that had yuumi, it got recalled and he played it on a exclusive for the win. This game is fun

[@DaveSpen]

When's the test? x_x

[@tik6030]

so basically adding yuumi to the game makes the game worse, thats incredibly faithful to the original

[@k.r2081]

Gnarxus

[@gadgas6905]

So playing yuumi in lor is harder than league.

[@LucSchots]

O.M.G.

[@romusa10]

SWIM PLEASE READ THIS, have a nice day cutie

[@tomwalters3159]

Hot take: Riot has secretly been bought out by Konami ... Thus explaining the nonsense rules

[@danis.s2102]

Taliyah yuumi plz

[@justinwebb2773]

God this keyword is fucking dumb, the only way i can think of balancing this card without killing it is to force the card to be summoned on the board when the carrier is killed to allow interaction with the buff card.

[@MentallyLatent]

8 minutes and 9 seconds... smh my head

[@JavierGarcia-vq9zd]

so disappointed, you forgot the catch interaction

[@ericmarcelino4381]

Why don't they just use detain instead...

[@danilosilva9146]

......what?

[@tekanupe1306]

I see... I don't get it

[@mastyyu7986]

8min 10 or 8min 9? scammed fr

[@cubandarknez]

I can tell this is old cuz he is yet unaware of the degeneracy that are demacia attach decks

[@weebinwr8116]

🤔

[@nosferatumadness]

Hahahahahaha

[@jalcome4201]

1:48 man needs 200 words to describe a perfectly fine and very logical interaction, just to sound smart and confuse his chat. And has the audacity to say "for some reason". Man, can u read? Edit: Piface in the chat can read.

[@Zanador]

If Zed has a Yuumi attached to him, and he creates a shadow "with his stats" and the shadow includes the Yuumi stats, then that implies those stats are part of Zed's body. This is consistent with Mask Mother, who copies all of the stats as if they were on one body, despite sending the Attach unit back to hand. So far so good. The problem here is that making an "exact copy" of a unit that has a card Attached to it does NOT replicate the Attach stats. This implies that the Attach stats are NOT part of the main unit's body, which is inconsistent with the other two interactions.

[@jalcome4201]

@@Zanador Stats are not part of the base units body. Going tandem means they both share the stat display as a means to show their united value. Mask Mother and Zed look at the stats, like a screen scraper. Unconditionally just take the number and copy it. Iterative Improvement looks at the unit under all these stats (because it makes a copy of THAT ONE follower), where the attached unit is obviously not part of. Unless there is a card im not remembering, it makes perfect sense to me. I think u went wrong in ur first paragraph with a too hasty conclusion?

[@grawirawenang8404]

the stats from yumi doesn't count but the stats that come from her effect (+1|+1 every round) does count

[@Zanador]

@@jalcome4201 I think the problem is in wording. I understand that mechanically, stuff like Zed and Mask Mother are just looking at the stat number and copying it unconditionally. But that's not what the wording implies. Zed doesn't say that he makes a shadow with his stats plus the stats of another unit that is attached to him, he says he makes a shadow with HIS stats. This implies the stats that belong to Zed and nothing else. The shadow including Yuumi's stats implies that Yuumi's stats count as "Zed's stats" because that's what it's supposedly copying. But when you create an exact copy of Zed he doesn't get those stats, which contradictorily implies that they AREN'T "Zed's stats". Basically, the way things are worded, it sounds like "create a shadow with Zed's stats" and "create an exact copy of Zed" should produce units with identical stats, but they don't. They do different things under the hood in a way that is not communicated to the user. This is a UX issue.

[@BlackStrike3011]

Pyke buff in path make creatures have double lurk...