Symbolism of Epiphany and Theophany | Manifestation of Logos

Epiphany or Theophany is a Christian feast that for many has fallen to the wayside, but the symbolism of this feast is important to understand if we want to see how things can find their meaning, find their center and begin to shine in the world as a manifestation of logos and light.
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[@Eternaldream13]

Here in Bulgaria, we celebrate John the Baptist and the blessing of the waters is still a revered ritual by many. Young men in particular are eager to jump into the waters to get the cross, even if they're freezing, though this winter was pretty light. Come to think of it, many Eastern Orthodox rituals have been preserved here in symbolically straightforward ways, especially around Easter and Christmas. Interestingly, there is a mix between Christian and much older pagan rituals here that is quite interesting - there are the kukers, wearing costumes of animal skins and scary masks, reminiscent of African masks, carrying bells to chase away the evil spirits at the end of winter. There are also the nestinars - firewalkers devoted to St Constantine and St Elena. I'm doing research into the origins of these rituals, both the Christian and the pagan and it's incredibly fascinating, though a bit frustrating to actually pinpoint the exact mythological and cultural origins. A friend of mine and I are planning to do short documentaries about both the kukers and the nestinars, the rituals, the people, the beliefs, the symbolism, the history, etc. It's quite the interesting journey of, how Dr. Peterson puts it "rescuing the dead father from the underworld". Strangely, the more I learn about this, the more I feel both connected to the land and a sort of outsider, being strongly influenced by Western European thought and dismissing much of Bulgarian culture until relatively recently. However, with humbleness and open eyes, there are whole symbolic and ritualistic worlds out there to explore. Thanks for the great videos, Jonathan, and don't you worry about the stutter - I've listened to you talk a lot and never noticed it, you're doing great. Happy John the Baptist day and may you bring up the golden ball from the waters.

[@thestraightroad305]

Jonathan stutters? I have never noticed!

[@robhuck2828]

You sounded great. I never noticed that you stuttered before, so if you feel comfortable using this format, keep it up!

[@theraibesoutbreak]

Jonathan Pageau, you are a gem.

[@markdawber7268]

A little while before I came across this video I was reading from the Byzantine Hours and Vespers for Theophany. The readings, as usual, go far back into the Old Testament (Moses parting the Red Sea, Elisha parting the Jordan, etc.). It occurred to me that in the mind of those who put together these services the feast commemorates not only the events revealing the nature of Jesus after he appeared in the flesh, but of all divine manifestations, especially those connected to His Baptism in the Jordan by the involvement of water.

[@JonathanPageau]

Yes, the texts for Theophany and especially the blessing of the waters are some of my favorite in the calendar. I mean, how can you not love hear talk of dragins in church?

[@arden8290]

In New Orleans we eat king cakes from Epiphany to Mardi Gras. The cake is ring shaped like a crown. There is a "baby" in the cake and if you get it you are the king. I think they used to use beans but now it's little plastic babies.

[@Manuel-bj2ug]

In Mexico, tomorrow's feast is known as Dia De Reyes (Day of Kings). We hide a little figurine (or several) in the cake and whoever finds them has to promise to hold a feast on February 2 (Candelaria i.e.Candlemas; Feast of the Presentation).

[@KIDWITDEGUN]

Beautiful

[@omglolzbbqsauce]

"and that i'm not stuttering too much, and saying umms and aahs all the time, and so i hope you enjoyed it, and UUUHHH i'll see you soon." ha! Camille Paglia seems to get by just fine and she spits "OKAY" every 5th word. Pay no mind to the haters. But in all seriousness, the most effective way to not stutter is to speak slower, but it can be difficult when your lips can't keep up with your thoughts. I'll gladly sacrifice a few uums and aahs for the more intimate experience of you looking at the camera and to not feel like i'm being read to. I think the majority of the people watching your videos prefer that element of personal connection. Most people on KZbin do well because of their personalities and not necessarily for their content. My favourite part of this video was when the 3 foreign kings helped revivify the center.

[@whiteylimpstockdengalne6044]

It's hard when your message is so fucking important. Puts a bit more pressure on a person.

[@dominicpaul1]

Brilliant video! In our family tradition, our mother used to dress up the 6 of us children as piglets and tell us to hide in the forest (obviously not straying too far from the caravan). My father and she would down vodka shots whilst talking in glossalalia then they would "hunt" us with the first being found being whipped with a dried silver birch bark, handed down from her mother; the second child would be struck across the eyes, the third about the mouth, the fourth on the ears and the fifth on the genitals. The winner, the last to be found, would be awarded "King Pig" and allowed to stay up late and also drink the vodka with our parents. Such fond memories, though I'm not sure what spiritual background and symbolism the ritual stemmed from? I won once, when I was 7, I remember burning something outside very late that night, under the beautiful moonlit sky, and my Dad making a strange noise, can't really explain it here, kind of like a cat's threat-yowl? Anyway, continue your wonderful work, I feel like my mother would greatly approve of your insights, God rest her soul 💥

[@sealevelbear]

Love everything about your channel, thank you so much 🤠

[@paulet990]

Whaaaat?! English isn’t your first language? I wouldn’t have guessed that! Excellent!

[@debbiemusicdrozdov9952]

You did a great job, I couldn't tell that english wasn't your first language. Thank you one of my friends is from Ukraine and told me it was Theophany and to save water. I had to look it all up and you answered very concisely. Thanks!!

[@SS-qm3hg]

Clear interpretation. Grateful for your work. Blessings.

[@LarsSoenderby12]

In Denmark we celebrate Christmas with risalamande (a rice pudding with crushed almonds) after the Christmas dinner. A whole almond is mixed into the bowl and one has to find the whole almond (and not eat it!) and hide it until the bowl is finished. The one who got it then reveals the almond and where he hid it and receives a present. It is the best!

[@mille123321]

Great video Jonathan. Thank you for sharing it with us. I do my best to try to hold on to the reins when I watch. It can at times be a challenge when you have little prior knowledge in this field but I do feel that the challenge is manageable and that there is a good balance. Also noticed the improvement of sound quality. Keep up the good work and I wish you well.

[@brandonmcneice]

The format is great. Keep it up!

[@charles3964]

Today I encountered a relic pendant belonging to Saint Andre Bessette. I had quite a profound experience in my heart and spirit that moved me to tears. It made me realize a bit in how the Logos manifests in the physical space - like a treasure hidden in the ordinary! Praise be to God🙏

[@christopherosullivan5348]

Great video! Interesting how I thought today that the evenings were getting longer. It’s so cool that the feast is linked with this. Also wouldn’t have guessed English wasn’t your first language! No worries about improv!

[@kauxkaux]

Great video! Thanks!

[@seablue5]

This was a really enjoyable presentation. It was my first introduction to these Eastern traditions. I must admit that the Eastern Church holds some fascination for me.

[@NathanMeffert]

Jonathan. It wasn’t obvious that you were improvising. Keep it up! Also, thanks for including the cosmological stuff in the analysis. I think that adds a level of authority to the story. Happy 2018!

[@CraigHinrichs]

You did an awesome job and it was very articulate and felt well thought out. I really enjoy these!

[@konnorporter5115]

This explains so much of JRR Tolkien's story "Smith of Wootton Major" where during the Feast of Good Children a boy eats a shining star hidden in the cake (placed there by the Baker's Apprentice), which later comes back up and the boy places it on his forehead, allowing him to travel to Faerieland. He takes trips there through all the dangers, and meets the Queen, until he is an older man, and the King of Faerieland comes to him revealed as the Baker's Apprentice, and asks him to give up his star and asks who to give the gift to. The older man obliges and tells to give it to the son of the meanest man in town (The old baker). Of which the star is baked in the next cake of The Feast of Good Children.

[@edrychmotzek5017]

Fantastic - please make more videos like this!

[@Wingedmagician]

This channel is great.

[@PreciousMeddler]

I never would have guessed that English was your second language. Everything sounded clear to me, so I think your improv worked well.

[@joelvand91]

I'm agnostic I never particularly liked church and your videos are very much liken to that, but in a engaging and insightful manner. Please keep up the work!

[@thealchemistdaughter3405]

Wonderful.. 👌🏼

[@sunbro6998]

You did great with no script. No worries.

[@ArneKielNielsen]

It was clear speach - thanks!

[@AEJSensei]

My grandmother used to bake a dime into the Christmas cake. Your presentation is very clear and much appreciated. Thank you, symbolically...

[@jaythenotsogreat3245]

Before I turned back to Christ or knew anything about the loggos,on my birthday in Aug of 2016 I installed a infrared security cammera and around 12 or 1 am I caught the Loggos man manifesting on infrared cam..He looked like,a burning man lol The loggos was shooting many many Orbs out of its eyes.....Bizzare but I GOT IT RECORDED LOL..Yeshua bless you brother,thank you for your truth and wisdom...

[@marina85960]

Sounds coherent enough

[@Jacob011]

Big ups for the mic, maybe try to be a bit closer to it, but overall the sound is great. Your English is perfect man, what are you talking about?! xD

[@DanaJumper]

Your speaking is perfectly clear to me. I had asked and hoped for this video; Epiphany is almost forgotten among Protestants, but it's breadth and depth of meaning, and the different events that it celebrates, are so important to our faith. Interesting, I did not realize the miracle at Cana was also celebrated at Epiphany, but the symbolism of the wine is pretty significant I would think. Thanks for doing this video. I wonder if the carving of Jesus' baptism is one of your own?

[@JonathanPageau]

Yes, I was thinking of your message when I made it. Happy you liked it. Yes, the carving is mine.

[@AnselmoFormolo]

Deyim Deyim!

[@IverBG97]

In Norway we eat rice porridge and the one who gets the almond gets a reward, like a marsipan pig! I've never heard of the crown, though it's a much more proper idea. I never thought about the origins of it before, and EVERYONE does it.

[@whiteylimpstockdengalne6044]

Ay, and the same with me growing up.

[@greatmomentsofopera7170]

I much prefer the more natural flow of your normal spoken words as the reading can start sounding like a sermon, by which I mean the truth in the words are not always felt in the moment of performance, which can make the meaning less clear. As a stage director I know how rare it is that someone is able to speak read or memorised text with the naturalness of normal speech and not even many trained actors can do it! Perhaps a happy medium would be noted to keep you on track, but improvising on the topics as the ideas occur to you. For very complex topics writing it down can of course be of enormous benefit, but sometimes the mental effort and rigour required to write the essay version is enough of a rehearsal to then improvise the talk. The most challenging concept to me to hold and I would appreciate even more elaboration on it is the notion of reality as hierarchies of patterns because it's so easy to fall back into the modern scientific world view we've been trained into. I think I appreciated the clarity of the script on that video!

[@JonathanPageau]

I'll probably do both, as you suggest. It depends on how comfortable I am with the subject. For sure if I can improvise at least some, it will make it possible to post more videos.

[@keithjohnston4488]

Thanks for this Jonathan. Would you consider reviewing the symbolism of The Dark on Netflix? Its quite brilliant, complex and filled with symbolism.

[@brandonwilkinson]

I have to be honest this was one of the first videos of yours I had to rewatch to understand. To your credit the topic was something that I know nearly nothing about. If you could define words like epiphany, Theophany, and magi, the average idiot like myself might be able to comprehend the entire video much better.

[@JonathanPageau]

Good point, will try to think of the average idiots when I make these. 😉

[@adelyawn]

dude, improvising is so much better, so much natural

[@NoahSteckley]

I think, though I'm not too sure, you could lay out more synonyms when talking about a symbolic concept, or perhaps even then tie it in and give the practical, in-life definition of it. For instance, what are all the things that represent the same thing as "light"... "logos", "day", "individual", and then give something like "True speech that brings order out of chaos" as Peterson would say. You do do this a lot, to be sure, these are just so jam-packed with meaning that it can be a challenge to keep up, at least for me. Maybe that's a good thing though, I'll just rewatch it multiple times lol. For a topic suggestion: What's the deal with magic carpets? I found out that Russians talk about them too. I'd only seen them in Aladdin before.

[@JonathanPageau]

Yes, a few people said I should have defined more words and elaborated more concepts, and it is true that I did not include much of the personal level but stayed on the communal and cosmological level. I wil have to keep that in mind.

[@whiteylimpstockdengalne6044]

Every major holiday, I think to myself, "This is my favorite holiday!" It wasn't till this year I realise that I think that every one of them when it happens. Except for Xmas, which is just so blooming heavy, if you know what I mean. You'd think Easter would be heavier, but the weight of significance of Xmas seems greater.

[@kauxkaux]

English is not my first language either and I found your explanation crystal clear, a little hesitation yes, but not distracting at all. What is your first language?

[@JonathanPageau]

French.

[@amarosampedrolopez7713]

Bravo, pour moi c'etait superbe! Maybe you can also do some video in french from time to time hehehe. Il y a une forte courante catholique traditionaliste en france qui va aimer aussi tes videos. Moi, personellement, j'aimerais trop une vidéo avec une analyse symbolique de la liturgie Orthodoxe et Catholique (latin old mass) je pense que beaucoup des gens connaissent pas vraiment la beauté de la liturgie ;)

[@ssevkin]

Thanks! What is the music?

[@lukaszzieniewicz6934]

Rimsky-Korsakov Russian Easter Festival Overture

[@brendaellenbentley]

Groping for words is ok!

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Beast mode

[@a2dmhb331]

If you walk us Transitioners thru the whole 2018 Ecclesiastical Calendar, we would be greatly blessed. (I hesitate to ask about uh...New Year’s Day) Also, maybe a video (or series) about Greek? How much is needed, how much do you know/speak/read/understand? And how should we think about the daunting prospect of learning the language, symbolism, history, saints, feasts, fasts, memes, etc...? Gratitude

[@JonathanPageau]

Maybe going through the calendar is a good idea. Will see if I can manage it. I don"t know much Greek, but luckily we have great tools online to look at the origin and etymology of words.

[@diegedankensindfrei2872]

The seed in the cake thing, sounds like the coin in the Christmas pudding. Possibly related? Same symbolism?

[@omglolzbbqsauce]

That's the one where they light the cake on fire (light, logos) correct ? A coin carries with it some added baggage, sounds like an incorporation of capitalism to some extent.

[@koala1234ish]

In Nordic countries it's an almond hidden in rice porridge, and who ever finds it will have good fortune the coming year... But it's before Christmas eve, not a Theophany thing.

[@JonathanPageau]

I think that you can perceive how in many ways, even historically, that Christmas and Epiphany share the same symbolic structure, and so it is not surprising that the same traditions are found one place or the other, especially since Epiphany is part , or rather most often seen as the end of the Christmas period.

[@koala1234ish]

Yeah, I didn't know the significance of this day before watching your video. In my language the name for this day refers only to ending of the Christmas period, even though there's a contradicting tradition of the Christmas period continuing until the 13th of Jan. (And apparently, according to the internet, the rice porridge & almond tradition comes to us from medieval England, where aristocracy had a tradition of hiding a bean in barley porridge.) Thanks to your videos, I'm slowly catching on to the idea of the layers of reality meshing, say, in a way that gives a transcendent meaning to these stories and traditions. It makes contemplating these events comforting and magical. Because, like you've said many times, immediate rejection and something resembling mental nausea happens in the modern mind when the Bible is brought up... But if I let go of the literal interpretation of these stories and let them float freely in that sense but instead ground them, their patterns, in the symbolic or abstract realm, and sort of work my way down from the abstractions, it's like magic how a complicated abstraction can meet a familiar story line without any distortions or contradictions in the way. And from that perspective I can find the stories approachable, without a sense of immediate rejection. It's not an easy perspective to keep up, so many thanks for helping me this far, Jonathan!

[@Livingmydreammm]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@jonleo99]

Hi Jonathan what do you think of the idea that the absence of the celebration of the logos in modern life is directly related to the absence of it in modern culture. Possibly as proof that the sacred acknowledgment of this aspect of being is crucial to the survival of being.

[@JonathanPageau]

I think the lack of celebration, and markers of time in modern life is itself an image of fragmentation, and of course the fact that Easter has lost it's importance and that Christmas has become just a celebration of giving stuff is a bad sign.

[@stephenpaccone8120]

Beastmode

[@houseofyezod8375]

Intro song name?

[@dronehomeless]

There were no issues with your delivery in this spontaneous approach. The noted difference between this and your other videos (to me at least) is that it's usually detectable when you are reading what you have prepared. The videos with the pre-written approach benefit from images/video that are edited in. The pre-written "script" with the additional level of editing go together well in my opinion. I'd imagine fleshing out your ideas on paper may feel more "complete", but maybe that's just how I would feel about it. Off the cuff shouldn't be a no go approach. Maybe it works to go about it both ways and choose the appropriate method depending on what's on your mind and what you are trying to convey/accomplish. Either way, I love what you are doing. I've been recommending that Logan analysis to a lot of people!

[@JonathanPageau]

I think both ways is really the answer. There are some subjects I can think through, but wouldn't want to improvise.

[@TheGerogero]

How to respond to people averse to Christianity pointing out the "absurdity" of lines from Leviticus or Deuteronomy about how shellfish are abominations or whatever?

[@JonathanPageau]

Watch my video on purity laws, it might be a beginning to understand. Dietary laws are more difficult to understand, but maybe I can make a video on this at some point.

[@karlkohlhase]

My mother in law buries an almond in the rice pudding each Christmas, and the finder receives some prize. As Christ says, the Kingdom is like a treasure buried in the field...

[@wehsee912]

1/6/21

[@joshuaforeman2611]

May I stutter as well

[@alanjosipn1956]

Third came from Arabia.

[@a2dmhb331]

Alan Josip N Persia / Zoroastrian?

[@JonathanPageau]

Makes sense.

[@NickRedmark]

What's your opinion on active imagination - the idea that you can actively engage with your unconscious through imagination? As you probably know Jung used this technique to reach his psychological insights. If that's the realm that gives rise to religious symbolism, isn't there the potential for anyone to explore it and possibly come up with new myths and maybe *update* religions?

[@NickRedmark]

I mean this just like tribes were joining and letting their gods fight and giving rise to new more integrated gods, something Peterson talked about. What if the process isn't over?

[@JonathanPageau]

Well, for sure it is difficult once God is defined as Infinite and Absolute. But for sure the fight within monotheism is not over, and within all of these traditions, it is said that it will only be fully resolved when our world ends, so...

[@NickRedmark]

Here's an example of a Jungian speaking of Christianity as a myth in need of update. I don't know whether she is right, but I find the idea of religions as something that can be updated intriguing: Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqm7qoeomcx9gckh28m27s WAGNER: What would you say the main value of the research and the writing that you and Jung have done on alchemy is? VON FRANZ: I would say that a civilization needs a myth to live. We know that if missionaries destroy the myth of a primitive people, they destroy them, also physically, they begin to drink, they degenerate, they are lost, and no civilization can live only from welfare. It needs a myth to live. All great civilizations, when they were flourishing, had a living myth, and I think that the Christian myth on which we have lived has degenerated and has become one sided and insufficient, and I think that alchemy is the complete myth. And that, therefore, if our Western civilization has a possibility of survival, it would be by accepting the alchemical myth which is a completion and continuation and a richer completion of the Christian myth. That's a myth we could live again with. In contrast to the Christian myth which doesn't satisfy a great amount of people anymore. And the Christian myth is deficient in not including enough of the feminine or--in Catholicism they have the Virgin Mary, but it's only the purified feminine; it's not the dark feminine--and in excluding matter and treating matter as dead and the realm of the devil and in not facing the problem of the opposites, of evil. And alchemy faces the problem of the opposites, faces the problem of matter, and faces the problem of the feminine--the three things which are lacking in Christianity, and, therefore, it complements the Christian myth, and could revive it too, that way.

[@JonathanPageau]

I think this person did not know about Orthodoxy. Alchemy, or hermeticism, became obsolete as a mythological structure about 500 years ago. I am not saying there isn't anything to get from it, but the notion of the church also includes all levels of reality and levels of understanding, whereas hermeticism was an initiation reserved for the elites.

[@noelletham7275]

If logos means light, why does Lucifer mean lightbringer or Morning Star?

[@AnselmoFormolo]

I think because Lucifer was God's brightest (closest to him) Angel. And of course the Morning Star fell, and a star arose again to signal the birth of Christ the new Adam.

[@daviszollars3356]

What is the definition of logos? Is it the place which creation emerges?

[@NickRedmark]

Here's my best guess. Logos is the force that structures consciousness. Most of your consciousness is already structured, either by the logos of the people of the past or by your nature (the original logos of god?), but if you pay attention there are things in your consciousness that are undifferentiated. Pay attention to them and try to describe them truthfully - they will become more differentiated. Unpacking. Sorting out. That's logos in action.

[@daviszollars3356]

Nick Redmark Makes sense, how much do you think humans are responsible for the structure of their consciousness? We inherent the point of evolution we are in now from what proceeded us but we can direct our course. So to me we are and extension of logos right? lol

[@alanteare1603]

I'd like to take a crack at this and see if I can articulate my understanding and hopefully someone else can comment further to correct any missteps I make. First I think Nick Redmark is spot on. I would like to augment his answers slightly just to see if I can get my brain around it. "Logos is the force that structures consciousness." - I think it is more at the point of consciousness than a precursor to it. It is the light that shines. There is a reason a lightbulb is used to represent the realization of an idea. It is the recognition of truth. It is developed at that point (articulated) "differentiated". Manifest. I think "the force that structures consciousness" is feminine. It is what gives birth to the logos. What Nick Redmark states as "If you pay attention there are things in your [un]consciousness that are undifferentiated" - I *think* this is the Pistis Sophia. A combination of nature and nurture. It is hidden at this point (the womb) which is gestating the idea. It is "The Call"/"The leap of faith" / "enticement" / "impulse" that propels us to search and "rescue the Father" (culture) and realize the logos (truth) to renew it. "Most of your consciousness is already structured, either by the logos of people of the past ...(the original logos of god?)" - This would be culture. The Father figure. Rather than "logos of god" I think the word used is "nous" (thought). The cosmic equivalent of mind . "Pay attention to them and try to describe them truthfully - they will be come more differentiated" - spot on. Nothing to add there So putting it together you begin with chaos (feminine) followed by nous (masculine) followed by pistis (feminine) followed by logos (masculine). nothingness - thought - impulse - articulation that works on a societal as well as individual level. For Part 2 of your question "Are humans responsible for the structure of their consciousness?" I think this is the same question as above with the same answer. It is emergent from the universe of which we are a product that is nurtured over time toward greater differentiation. This allows us to recognize the nature of the universe itself (Ignorance -Thought - Faith - Truth which fosters further thought - faith- truth). It can also collapse back into chaos along the way. (As an aside: Isn't this also how the Scientific Method works? Hypothesis - Experiment - Observation - Conclusion (as either confirmed theory or rejected hypothesis)? That is how evolution works. Nature puts out a whole bunch of "bits" that assemble into greater bits (complexity and differentiation). The ones that are adapted to their environment survive. The ones that are not adapted disappear. Once consciousness arises, then we do start to have the ability to "direct our course" and this is true as a species as well as to an individual. However, I would add that we are just getting started. We can "direct our course" through course correction, providing we remain meek, and do not think we can "determine our course" because the universe might have the last word on that - which would answer your question as to whether you are an extension of the Logos, or an also ran.

[@daviszollars3356]

Alan Teare Thanks I appreciate the depth you went into with this. Im on the same line of thought pretty much with most of what you expressed. I think it is great you differentiated between direct/determine our fate because I didn't mean to imply that we as humans have the final say in the matter. But what is most important to me is the process and evolution of ideas as you pointed out. Our methods ,both scientific and religious, are building upon themselves and completly changing our understanding of the world (which sometimes leads us down roads with dead ends) and that process plays out biologically as well.

[@daviszollars3356]

Daniel Beers Nice summary, only question I have is what do you mean by rational thought expressed in speech? To me language is limited and can only point towards the ultimate truth but never be interpreted as to define it. I dont disagree, just dont fully understand.

[@wehsee912]

912

[@wehsee912]

🌚☄️❤️💫

[@deuteriumjones]

I would love you to go into the symbolism of "Shaun of the dead." Just a humble request.

[@JonathanPageau]

Ha! I actually really liked that movie.

[@KIDWITDEGUN]

If you hadn't told me this presentation is improvised I wouldn't even have noticed. I must say though that this might be your weakest presentation as of yet. Maybe I am not so interested in this topic which migth stem from the fact that I am a protestant atheist. I wasn't even aware of this holiday and so I know Christmas or Easter much better which is why that message would resonate more deeply with me. One more thought: I noticed that your voice is lower when you don't sit in front of your webcam but when you dub videos. That way your voice sounds much better. Your low and deep voice is very good.

[@JonathanPageau]

Also, I got a new microphone. That helps.

[@alteredcatscyprus]

It seems like you hesitate and sometimes stumble or get uncomfortable when you get down to the identification of the Logos. i.e., it almost sounds to me like you may think Christ is a manifestation of meaning, (a thing), rather than the source of meaning, (a who). Or perhaps you are uncomfortable saying that to your audience for fear it will turn them off? Can you clarify what you believe for me? Do you believe Jesus Christ Himself is the Logos? and that he is Someone with a face and personhood? And not a thing and/or a where? I heard you being interviewed recently and the man asked you if the Logos was a force, and you hesitated and looked uncomfortable. It did seem like you tried to steer him away from that idea though. Forgive me if I am asking too much.

[@JonathanPageau]

No, it's fine, I believe the Trinity is composed of persons. I also believe the Logos is a person and that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the Logos. The reason why you might see me hesitate on this question sometimes, also see me use alternative workds, is that I think people have no idea what a person is. The reason why they think it is silly that God is personal is because they don't know what being personal entails and do not understand what it means. They take it for granted. I hope to make a video which explores the ways in which God is "personal" and the ways in which God is not personal.

[@alteredcatscyprus]

Father Evan of St Spyridon in Loveland Colorado has explored the topic of the person-hood of God quite a bit. He has a show on Ancient Faith Radio, and a website as well with podcasts. It is indeed difficult to comprehend what a person is. If you look it up in the dictionary, you can see that even they have difficulty. I would be interested to see a video like that by you. Thank you so much for your reply. I understand, now.

[@alteredcatscyprus]

I am just thinking. It's interesting that a noun is a person, place or thing, in the context of my question. It would be interesting also to be able to understand how a person can be the Way. way (wā)► n. A road, path, or highway affording passage from one place to another. n. An opening affording passage: This door is the only way into the attic. n. Space to proceed: cleared the way for the parade. Mind blowing.

[@GamaAnderson]

So tomorrow is the day of kek you say! Reeeeeeeeeeee

[@kekistanipatriot1644]

The Manifestation of the ruah (ka) through the Opening of the Nephesh of the Cattle and Sheep The birth of Christ in Beth-lehem (Bit-Lahmi) Beth-Lehem is the Temple of Lehem (Lahmu). Lahmu (Lahmi in Canaan) is the Star seen by the Magi. The star (prophecy, story, myth, new religion, revelation and salvation) Herod wants to put out. Lahmu’s nations/believers are likely personified by Lahmi, brother of Goliath from Gath in Chronicles. In Akkadian mythology, Lahmu (Lahmi, Lehem) is name of a protective and beneficent deity, the first-born son of Apsu (Abzu - The Baptismal, religious fertilizing waters) and Tiamat (Tehom - the deep primordial serpent bitch of the abyss). The earliest reference to Bethlehem appears in the Amarna correspondence (c. 1400 BCE). In one of his six letters to Pharaoh, Abdi-Heba, Egypt's governor for Jerusalem, appeals for aid in retaking Bit-Laḫmi in the wake of disturbances by Apiru mercenaries: "Now even a town near Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi by name, a village which once belonged to the king, has fallen to the enemy ... Let the king hear the words of your servant Abdi-Heba, and send archers to restore the imperial lands of the king!" "But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days." (Micah 5:1) “WHOSE GOINGS FORTH ARE FROM OF OLD, FROM ANCIENT DAYS” Chapter I. "Here begin the chapters of 'coming forth by day,' and of the songs of praise and of glorifying, and of coming forth from and of going into the glorious Neter-khert in the beautiful Amenta; to be said on the day of the burial going in after coming forth." Chapter II. "The Chapter of coming forth by day and of living after death." Chapter VIII. "The Chapter of passing through Amenta, and of coming forth by day." Chapter IX. "The Chapter of coming forth by day, having passed through the tomb." Chapter XVII. "Here begin the praises and glorifyings of coming out from and of going into the glorious Neter-khert in the beautiful Amenta, of coming forth by day in all the transformations which please him, of playing at draughts, and of sitting in the Sekh hall, and of coming forth as a living soul." Chapter XLVIII. "Another Chapter of one who cometh forth by day against his foes in Neter-khert." Chapter LXXIV. "The Chapter of walking with the legs and of coming forth upon earth." Chapter XCII. "The Chapter of opening the tomb to the soul and the shadow, of coming forth by day, and of getting power over the legs." Chapter CX. "Here begin the Chapters of the Sekhet-hetepu, and the Chapters of coming forth by day, and of going into and coming out from Neter-khert, and of arriving in the Sekhet-Aanru, and of being in peace in the great city wherein are fresh breezes." www.pyramidtextsonline.com/library.html “But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.” (Matthew 2) My people who are cattle (born of the Bull) and sheep (born of the Ram) shall be thy flock. And Joseph took Mary from Nazareth to Judea to be a man for his city And while they were there, And the days of coming forth were fulfilled And she bore her ben, her Bechor and Thtlho and Tscibho manger because there was no room for them Bmlo And EVIL were in that country staying in the field and picked up the night shifts Badrm And an angel of the LORD standing in them and the glory of the Lord appeared them around and look to see Gdolh And he said to the angel Fear not, I mean you great joy which shall be to all Ham that day your child In the city of David the Savior who is the Christ the Lord. And this is to you the sign, you shall find a child from a pipe and a tunnel in a manger.” (Luke 2 Hebrew Bible) Joy which shall be to all of HAM will be found from a pipe and tunnel THE MAGI MAY NOT BE “WISE MEN” or “KINGS” The Magi should be viewed as Indo-Iranian (Median Persian) Zoroasters as is stated in the Syriac Infancy Gospel. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_Infancy_Gospel The fact that the Magi are from the EAST is likely symbolic of their RETURN Westward to the TRUE son (sun) of the ONE God and the Garden in the WEST. The EAST is the direction of exile and rejection. Seeing the “star” that Barnabas worshipped FROM the East, is the REVELATION and RETURN. In this case, they are NOT "foreigners" but more likely RETURNING/REUNITING from EAST OF EDEN. "In the 1980s, under the secular Ba'ath Party formerly led by Saddam Hussein, among the many propaganda campaigns of Iraq, the term majus was used during the Iran-Iraq War as a generalization of all modern-day Iranians. "By referring to the Iranians in these documents as majus, the security apparatus [implied] that the Iranians [were] not sincere Muslims, but rather covertly practice their pre-Islamic beliefs. Thus, in their eyes, Iraq's war took on the dimensions of not only a struggle for Arab nationalism, but also a campaign in the name of Islam." They were the Medjay of Egypt who had adopted Persian beliefs Returning to the West. "The first mention of the Medjay in written records dates back to the Old Kingdom, when they were listed among other Nubian peoples by Weni, who was at the time a general serving under Pepi I." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjay Baptism also has its origins in Egypt beginning with the Ogdoad as it is the natural raising of the light (revelation and rebirth) from the darkness after passing through the chaotic primordial watery abyss each night. In ancient Egypt, the Pharaoh was Baptized each morning. The Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. www.astrotheologyzone.com/jesus-the-egyptian.html journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/030751335003600102?journalCode=egaa www.adrianamarqueta.com/library/download/id=575836&type=file facebook.com/EgyptLandOfPharaohs/posts/850648771663210:0 Wedding Feast at Cana of Galeli (John 2) and the Wedding Parable of Matthew 22 both symbolize a NEW marriage under ONE God. "On the THIRD day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.” Jesus' MOTHER is saying, "Their Nephesh is dry and the ruah is parched." Jesus' reply is telling. It would soon follow that the Cattle (Goyim of the Ox/Bull) and Sheep (the flock of the Ram) and Doves would be commodities in the Temple. Destroy this temple and I shall rebuild it in THREE DAYS. And it shall come to pass in the acharit hayamim, that the Har Beis Hashem shall be established as the rosh of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all the Goyim shall flow unto it. And amim rabbim shall come and say, Come ye, and let us go up to Har Hashem, to the Beis Elohei Ya’akov; and He will teach us of His Derakhim, and we will walk in His Orakhot; for out of Tziyon shall go forth the torah, and the Devar Hashem from Yerushalayim. And He shall judge among the Goyim (Cattle), and shall arbitrate for amim rabbim; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; Goy shall not lift up cherev against Goy, neither shall they train for milchamah any more. Yeshayah 2:2-4 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel 34 King James Version (KJV) rense.com/general86/talmd.htm Kek is the bringer of light - revelation and rebirth from the primordial watery abyss. The Opening of the Nephesh is the delivery of the ruah. Kek is the invisible breath called the ruah. Kek is truth. Kek is Revelation and Rebirth from the primordial abyss. Kek is Khemnu. Kek is Osiris. E. A. Wallis Budge, The Gods of the Egyptians or Studies in Egyptian Mythology Volume I, 1904, Pages 403-404 archive.org/stream/godsofegyptianso00budg#page/404/mode/2up/search/kek E. A. Wallis Budge, Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection, 1911 Pages 279-280 archive.org/stream/osirisegyptianre00budg#page/278/mode/2up/search/kek Kek is the Eleventh Hour. Line 191 in the Text of Pepi I :-"Behold thy son Horus, to whom thou hast given birth. He hath not placed this Pepi at the head of the dead, but he hath set him among the gods neteru.” www.ancient-egypt.org/history/old-kingdom/6th-dynasty/pepi-i/pyramid-complex-of-pepi-i/pyramid-of-pepi-i.html Kuk is without revelation. Charakuk is “life without revelation” “Art thou not mikedem Hashem Elohai Kedoshi? We shall not die. Hashem, Thou hast appointed them for mishpat; O Tzur, Thou hast ordained them for reproof.” Jeremiah was a bullfrog. Jeremiah was a prophet. www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/kek.html#.WlT_lajtyUk www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pyramid-texts-susan-morrow_us_56ba4ae6e4b0b40245c464d9

[@JiveTurkey1618]

You must be fishing for compliments because your English is good! Jordan Peterson says "you know" more than you use "um" and your subtle accent doesn't make me think of wine and cheese, so you get a B+ by American standards.

[@JonathanPageau]

It's funny, because in re-listening, I think that the fact that I purposefully did this to see if I could avoid bad speech habits, I ended up having less than what I usually exhibit in the improvised podcasts I have participated into until now. At least it shows me that I can do it if I am in the right frame of mind.