Octavian, Precocious Pipsqueak

[@flankspeed]

-- Mother , be good to these people, they are particular friends of mine. -- In what kind of particular? -- They are epic badasses.

[@delivertilidie8356]

13 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 👍

[@LordTalax]

They just had plot armor

[@What-go8ng]

Well she did think he was slobbin Ceasar's knob in the closets

[@alpkorsan]

@@LordTalax And big fucking swords

[@roger9430]

Friends in what particular? Senator Lucius Vorenus and the largest gang leader of Rome, goes by Titus “Godfather” Pullo

[@abhinandanbhagat7280]

The actress who plays Atia did a phenomenal job during the entire series.

[@argonwheatbelly637]

Polly Walker was quite excellent in this role.

[@EleanorofAquitaine42]

She was wonderful in Emma as well!

[@jforozco12]

yeah she was awesome

[@jforozco12]

@array s yes ^^

[@massimoe.nicolin6067]

@@jforozco12 Does she actually?

[@cgavin1]

"Forgive our vulgar ways.." Says the most noble man in the room. lol

[@dhorn4005]

That's preciselly the most noble thing a man can do; to tae upon himself the wrongs of others

[@alexanderchenf1]

@Genco Abbandando those noble men apparently made shit countries. Freedom and prosperity do not come from good intentions, but from the balance of powers.

[@agdgdgwngo]

He's noble in some ways, in many ways he just his a stick up his arse. Plus his ideals are always in contradiction or direct conflict. He believes in unflinching loyalty and this just results in him being sided against the republic twice. Also, to fulfill this loyalty he essentially becomes a gangster for Marc Anthony (who he ends up following to the end, and is nothing like Vorenus or anything he believes in). Admittedly he's dealt a pretty shit hand with his wife and kids, he does try, and he's an ever dependable friend to Pullo, but really his strictness and honor just mess with him.

[@danilkllien7798]

@@agdgdgwngo Well, such loyalty is a virtue by Roman standards. Besides, his wife cheated on him and killed herself, so...

[@cautarepvp2079]

@@danilkllien7798 she thought he was dead..

[@Rome274]

I love the way Octovian speaks . Very precisely and with inner confidence and intellect.

[@reginatang9310]

wait till season 2 and see the grown up Octavian, it is more than creepy

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

Until he smacks a slave. 😂

[@olgachafeeva2828]

@@nocturnalrecluse1216 you can't judge a man of back then by the standards of today. ya turkey :D

[@ThePointlessBox_]

dinnynosher he was a genius and political mastermind. And extremely charismatic

[@taroman7100]

that was the real octavian who became Augustus

[@shmabadu]

4:03, “That is enough from you!”, love the way Pullo instinctively snaps to attention at the raised voice of a centurion, years of training ingrained into him.

[@displayname8948]

I've always interpreted this as Pullo mocking Vorenus.

[@MM-vs2et]

@@displayname8948 Probably, but Pullo's not the type that would mock so deep in irony. Also, I think he does it a couple more times throughout the show

[@Grivian]

@@displayname8948 I'ts not mockery

[@BBD1]

@@displayname8948 Nah, doesnt seem like that

[@Telechontar09]

@@displayname8948 It’s not. He fucks around, but he knows when he’s crossed lines.

[@theenglishalpinist5031]

"Alone?" "You'll have plenty of slaves." LOL just one of many snippets of magical script in this series, gets effortlessly into the mindset of the culture of the time.

[@nodinitiative]

Yup, he is going alone as in, the only free or citizen going. Slaves don't count as people.

[@MM-vs2et]

It's delivered so matter-of-factly, as if its a sidenote. Makes the show just more grounded.

[@nutyyyy]

​@nodinitiative Same when he slaps the slave at the start for her clumsiness. Very matter of fact.

[@thelucianiancu]

Bruh, this kid played Octavian like a boss, and that backhand, perfect introduction of his character

[@whitleypedia]

yea it was weird when they replaced him

[@iDeathMaximuMII]

@@whitleypedia I think it was cause Octavian got older & since they were rushing the show, they had to get an older looking Octavian

[@whitleypedia]

@@iDeathMaximuMII yeah you're right they probably originally would have changed him starting at season three

[@iDeathMaximuMII]

@@whitleypedia Yeah, so unfortunate that Rome didn't get 5 or 6 seasons

[@LordVader1094]

@@whitleypedia Honestly preferred him to the older actor

[@phrophetsamgames]

"Caesar has given them honorary horses" That means they're honorarily counted as Equites, the knighted class who can afford their own horses and military equipment.

[@spasjt]

Nice catch. I'd forgotten that Equites, with such equipment and expensive horses as they were back then (even now), would have been looked upon as sort of lower nobility.

[@georgewilliamgutarracampos6262]

I thought that the term knight was used from the middle ages onwards

[@spasjt]

@@georgewilliamgutarracampos6262 Yes but the concept of a Equites or a knight being a lower noble is the same.

[@thenewlc]

I inferred something along these lines, but thanks for the details!

[@MM-vs2et]

Wasn't that a pun, not a real thing? Like the word for Cavalry and the social class which bears the name 'equite' is the same. And it was a joke among the military that the cavalry units might as well be equites. Pun being that they are on horseback, and they have a more comfortable position in the legion.

[@MagnificentFiend]

'...not the sullen Catonian one, the cheerful brutish one.' 4:04 I love how Pullo comes to attention out of habit.

[@WiseGuy5674]

"...What peculiar names these plebs have..'Pullo'.."

[@Spongejeezy]

not happit its respect

[@MagnificentFiend]

0DarthSponge0 If it was respect, he wouldn't have said 'by virtue of rank, if nothing else'!

[@Sup_Mate]

MagnificentFiend He's respecting the standard of the 13th legion.

[@RedOrm68]

MagnificentFiend - well, Lucius Vorenus is a very commanding figure. You wouldn't become Primus Pilum if you weren't a commanding figure.

[@toddmac2020]

Ray Stevenson was brilliant as Legionary Titus Pullo. In fact all of these actors were superb in this miniseries. The Pullo character, though, was by far my favorite. Rest in Peace Ray.

[@waldohpepper5884]

Well said. He suited the character perfectly.

[@YouDontNeedMuch]

Give us back our Pullo. 🥹

[@silversnail1413]

Octavian's transformation from sickly mama's boy to powerful statesman was the most compelling aspect of the show for me. I know a lot of people weren't happy with the actor switch in Season 2 but I think it worked fairly well considering the nature of time in the series and how quickly the years roll by, and both actors did a great job. Also, since Season 2 included more explicit sex scenes and darker material for Octavian casting an older actor was probably the wise choice.

[@huamokolatok]

Octavian was a ferocious stateman and politician but not a soldier. That's why he have generals among his closest companions loyal to him and not to the state because he made all their career like Napoleon with his marshals. He understand perfectly well the value of true friendship, that's why he was loyal until the end to Pullo - as much as Pullo was loyal to him, Vorenus, his wife and his child made with Cleopatra 😝 - but he don't trust his family or friends from the upper class, he just used them as the steps of the stairs to the absolute power. Pullo was the only one send to kill Cicero - and then Cesarion, but of course he lied to do so to Octavian -

[@joecool9739]

More sex scenes? Like when he was f×cking his wife like a robot?

[@MatthewCaruso-ky4uz]

@@huamokolatok he wasnt a soldier but he was capable of acts of bravery

[@stevencoardvenice]

Both actors are excellent

[@randomuser6175]

from this scene you can see Vorenus representing the old republic and Pullo is the empire. Vorenus dies at the end and Pullo moves on. Amazing writing. These guys should make another show like this but longer than 2 seasons this time

[@somebloke13]

Never thought of the Vorenus/ republic, Pullo/empire symbolism before. Very smart.

[@IZn0g0uDatAll]

They represent the conservatives and the populists, the two main faction in Rome at the time.

[@Angel-nu7fm]

Actually Vorenus didn't die. The producers said that. Unfortunately it didn't get a third season.

[@randomuser6175]

@@Angel-nu7fm I think you confused the interviews. Vorenus did die here but he wasn't going to if HBO didn't cancel the series. That's why second season is very rushed and covers a very large period in history with only 10 episodes. (Not even 12 like the first season.) But I wouldn't say no if they continue the show tomorrow and say Vorenus didn't die :)

[@MM-vs2et]

And yet, they got along famously. The symbolism was that the republic and the empire has always existed with each other. Though the republic is still in command, and they had their fights, symbolising the civil wars. And finally, the republic dies and the empire remain.

[@HansenDing]

I love that Atia acts exactly how I imagined a Populares aligned member of nobility would. Her normal instinct is as classist and discriminatory as anybody in the nobility would be. But once she learns these two plebs are friends of her son, eg. people who will likely in the future become clients to the family, she very naturally and easily announces "we embrace you", but then when Octavian (who is a natural born politician) suggests they dine with her she balks, before accepting that as the price of politics once she is assured that they can be perceived to be knights due to Caesar's honours. And then uses the dinner to expertly try to aid her son in attracting future clients, trying to convince Vorenus of their family's brand of politics.

[@cashewnuttel9054]

Was this before or after that boy borrowed that large amount of money and got beat for it?

[@darrynmurphy2038]

Indeed, it's worth remembering however just how utterly blurred the lines between Patrician and Plebian had become by the Late Republic. Atia, despite being a Patrician of the Julii clan, married a Plebian in the form of Octavian's father. Octavian in turn was by all rights a Plebian, despite his upbringing and later success. It's debatable just how lowly Titus and Lucius would've been perceived in society. Given that Lucius was a Centurion by this point, his status would've likely been regarded.

[@akshatprakash871]

@@darrynmurphy2038 True in the show. In reality, she would have been much more open. The punic wars led to a massive culling of the Roman elite, leading to the rise of many plebians.

[@bokonoo77]

"classist and discriminatory as anybody in the nobility would be" lol what

[@AYVYN]

You’re viewing this through a very modern American lens. She treats them how people treat laborers in less developed countries.

[@chrismac2234]

Shakespearean quality acting all across the cast. The whole series is spectacular.

[@811chelseafc]

4:00 love how Pullo snaps to attention when he gets scolded by Vorenus. Even drunk and feeling good about himself, that legionary training kicks in real quick.

[@GundemaroSagrajas]

“Was it very horrible? Of course it was, I can’t even imagine it. We shan’t even talk about it. We shall just put it totally out of our minds” All time favourite

[@Donryall]

0:15 the casual backhand, so pimp.

[@SONICE69]

Donryall: Luuuuuuv the backhand, the bloke didn’t even miss a best as he transitioned to the conversation......

[@TheBeastr]

@Lucimyr Exactly, especially considering the high status of the family. Heck, if treated right some slaves in rome were nearly considered family for their loyalty and services. Ofcourse, this is not to say that every Roman slave was granted this, and many suffered without anyone knowing what happened to them even to this day.

[@hitrapperandartistdababy]

Lucimyr Why would you call her a “Bitch”? Seems like an odd choice of word

[@MrMexijorge]

@Donryall She got bitch slapped, so much power for someone so young

[@Asraeks]

@Isabel Beckerman they were fortunate slaves, they just serve as helpers, not bad in comparison to working the fields all day or in a quarry or a mine

[@ME-bl3xg]

Polly Walker is so stunning and her acting is a stand out there was way more chemistry between Atia and Antony than he ever had with Cleopatra

[@Harkness78]

I mean, he and Cleopatra have exactly 2 episodes together, and they were trying to condense an entire season into those 2 episodes, so not really fair

[@ME-bl3xg]

@@Harkness78 no tbh polly walker is the better actress by miles and her and james purefoy have now acted 4 times along side eachother there chemistry is amazing

[@whit9250]

I weep at this series' passing, and the passing of Legionary Titus Pullo. May he rest easy and fulfilled in the Halls of the Gods.

[@DonaldMele]

Before Cersei, there was Atia

[@bobbulat1393]

Atia was at least likeable

[@Avenus112]

@@bobbulat1393 much more humane too. Even when she was brutal it had a purpose. Cersei was just spiteful and destructive.

[@redrave404]

Atia has a brain, Cersei assumed she inherited her father's when she very clearly did not and deluded herself into believing she was a victim. Tywin: "I don't trust you because you're a woman, I do not trust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."

[@aengusog3415]

There’s literally nothing comparable between the two

[@AverageAlien]

Atia is infinitely more likeable and relatable

[@WHYJ35]

Man even as a kid/teenager, Octavian was a cold force to be reckoned with

[@lucifermorningstar-hn5ev]

Yes was he ever !

[@Rome274]

Well said. A cold force he was 👍

[@randomuser6175]

"You two make unlikely friends" Said to the best duo ever on TV

[@stephenwood6663]

1:52 Heh, the look on Pullo's face. "That won't be necessary." "Won't it? I could rather do with a reward."

[@arihmancerquis825]

Ja ja ja! Yeah, that's right! I didn't notice before. Good eye, man!

[@vitanus]

"I´ve bought a horse!" Even after ten years this scene always gets me. Favourite show of all time for me

[@alexuziel7734]

such an underrated series.

[@siloecruz6477]

ludlow 889 true!

[@TheGamebuzzHD]

It's not underrated at all Most people agree to say its one of the best ever made Its underknown if that's even a term Most people forgot about it

[@ignatzmeyer1978]

@@TheGamebuzzHD The show was too much ahead of it's time. Just before the age of expensive quality-series and internet streaming services began. HBO couldn't handle that risk at the time, in opposite to Game of Thrones years later.

[@TheGamebuzzHD]

@@ignatzmeyer1978 yeah honestly a few more years and it would have had a lot more success But I honestly think it wouldn't have reached got levels Even if its better Simply because rome is less interesting than fake medieval times to average guy

[@pt8208]

Such an overused description.

[@HandleGF]

"Have I played my part in the farce of life creditably enough?" - Octavian's last words, according to Suetonius.

[@ArgonYouTube]

"Then applaud as I exit."

[@patrick4662]

the writing... the dialogue at the dinner scene. So freaking satisfying. You govern your reason no more than you govern your tongue!!!

[@tepesvoda464]

Rome! What a phenomenal show that was... In any respect!

[@lawrencebittke8478]

Quite a relationship between the patrician boy Octavian, well versed in the classics and the politics of Rome, and Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullover, sturdy plebeians and straight shooters. The future Emperor Augustus already sensed the usefulness of his soldier friends not only in the ranks of Caesar’s legions but as muscle for hire in the streets of Rome.

[@paolomarsico607]

Ah yes, good old Titus Pullover.

[@chuckleshoneysuck1515]

@@paolomarsico607 Don't forget his brother Claudius Cardigan

[@MrAlepedroza]

@@chuckleshoneysuck1515 Nor their cousin Julius Sweater.

[@franceleeparis37]

Octavian showing his leadership qualities... even the solders were humbled before him...and he knew who to turn to for support later on... the mark of a psychotic genius..

[@RealAugustusAutumn]

Being wise in rule isn't psychopathy

[@flybeep1661]

"Psychotic genius" exactly what does that supposed to mean in this context? Psychotic? Do you know what that means?

[@nicoviebrock5348]

Well psychopaths tend to possess above average charisma

[@Ikaros23]

The correct word is «machiavellian». That is a ruthless hunger for power, with the will to kill. But at the same time the abillity to care for long term growt, order, and a sence of connection to the people. A system is tyranical when it’s unable to govern with law and order, and nepotism/corruption/mafia is rampant ( just like in today’s Russia). Augustus Octavian was a great man, but on his way to power he did alot of moves that where unjust. But the Republic where all ready long gone by the time of Sulla in all but name ( rampant corruption). Rule of law where a thing of the past

[@ojj3340]

Octavian wasn’t psychotic 😅

[@chazarcola7639]

POLLY WALKER and MAX PIRKIS in HBO's ROME embody one of the most complex and fascinating Mother and Son duos since VERA FARMIGA and FREDDIE HIGHMORE in BATES MOTEL.

[@Jlahandle]

I keep coming back to this scene. So impressed with how great the acting is in this series, especially watching young Octavian. What a phenomenal actor Max Perkis is.

[@badjokemaker3051]

Lucuis: "That won't be necessary!"Pullo: Oo

[@badopinionsrighthere]

The way Pullo snaps to attention when Vorenuw raises his voice, he really has run his mouth in front of officers too much

[@kitty1793]

XD Pullo's laught at 2.50 :DD and this whole scene is amazing, love the way Pullo and Vorenus are so different yet they became the best of friends

[@bdleo300]

Brilliant writing, brilliant acting.

[@iratepirate3896]

"We shall all dine together.. as equals"

[@BadNewsLexis]

That is Enough!!from you.. Pullo stands at attention lol

[@kitty1793]

lexpocalik ah lol i didn't even realise that until you said it :DDD awesome detail :P

[@tomservo5347]

That's harsh Roman Army discipline ingrained into Pullo's very being. Centurions walked around with canes made from grape vine stalks which many a Legionary bore scars from beatings. Many times an entire Legion would mutiny and take vengeance on the more sadistic centurions by cutting their throats.

[@tbeller80]

I think it was a 10th Legion Centurion under Caesar who had the nickname of "Bring me Another!" because he was constantly breaking those canes dealing out punishment. He'd break one and call out for a replacement often enough that the phrase stuck.

[@davidweihe6052]

As someone whose mother grows concord grapes in her garden, I would say that being hit with a bundle (fasces ?) of grape vines will not hurt as much as shame a soldier. A cat of however many tails, OTOH ...

[@tomservo5347]

The cane was made from the stalk of the grapevine so yes, it would definitely hurt but not enough to cripple or maim a perfectly good soldier. Interestingly my German mom grew up on the Rhine river surrounded by hills of grapes that the Romans introduced 2,000 years prior and cultivated since then. She told me when she was young and harvesting grapes they would find Roman stuff all the time in the ground.

[@ATJ253]

2:08 I know it’s in reference to when Caesar sent them with horses to find the eagle, but part of me believes that Vorenus was one of the ten men who were made honorary _Equite_ when Caesar met with Ariovistus

[@firstnamelastname7113]

Octavian and Atias relationship in real life was WAY WAY MORE SCREWED UP. Atia totally cocooned him. She made Octavian sleep in the same bed since he was born. I can’t really remember all of the stories but their relations was really bizzare

[@killme2675]

Yea, she was way too overprotective of him.

[@pergys6991]

Atia definitely mothered him way too much. Very surprised how well Octavian turns out considering how people with upbringings like that almost never turn out well

[@jlassijlali290]

@@pergys6991 few months with Caesar!

[@donnymoney4222]

In his defense she is hot as hell

[@flybeep1661]

@@donnymoney4222 And?? The fuck does that have to do with anything? Her son? Moron.

[@silenusmeduseon8814]

Rather good: the four actors all makes an individual impact. Subbed.

[@eyeCU13]

Excellent scene. This show was something else!

[@Nemesios777]

Its rare to see such quality again. GoT was just a joke compare to this.

[@thetr00per30]

damn, this show deserved so much better

[@olgachafeeva2828]

Well, it's realistic - I mean, that IS how slaves were supposed to be treated back then (and not just slaves; the Plebs, too). This show is REALLY graphic - that's what makes it look so real and good. There's no "toning-down" and whitewashing (like in Ben Hur, for instance)

[@MrCHO500]

Except the Octavious his mother and sister were born into the pleb class. Therefore all the main characters in this scene were equal in the eyes of the ancient Romans

[@Borderose]

Not really. The Plebs and Patricians had the same rights at this point.

[@beckyweiss6072]

To be fair, Ben Hur was made in an age of pretty severe censorship in the media. A totally different era

[@BoxStudioExecutive]

@@MrCHO500 Nope. Octavian's dad was an equites, served as propraetor of Macedonia and would have stood for election as consul with support of Cicero had he not died en route back to Italy; his great-grandfather was a military tribune during the 2nd Punic War.

[@mikem9001]

@@MrCHO500 They were plebeian nobiles. The distinction between plebeian and patrician was virtually obsolete by now. Most senators were plebeian, but they were nobiles, not capite censi.

[@TheSololobo]

This series was full of shocking moments but for some reason Octavian slapping the slave stood out for me.

[@TheSasudomi]

From now on Atia knew that Pullo will be a great father figure for Octavian. Not only teaching him ho to defend himself.

[@mindfulskills]

What a great scene. The young Octavian in this series is FAR superior to the older one. They could have produced an entire series around him.

[@Sawrattan]

Had Rome enjoyed the same budget as its successor Game of Thrones, we would have had more series, less rushed. I think both actors were very good for their parts - the young actor was fantastic as the precocious yet inexperienced boy, but the character would have outgrown him in just Series 2.

[@Gryffster]

Yes. His replacement was my only beef with the entire series.

[@timjohnson1199]

And should.

[@svargyle]

Agree completely. Max Perkis (young Octavian) played the role masterfully. The older Octavian/Augustus seemed to never have is own 'agency.' He always seemed to respond to others' inputs rather than dominating the conversation with his own intellect. Don't know if it was writing or acting ability, but definitely not as good. I think they could have stuck with Max in the later episodes with some make up and a haircut. He was plenty tall enough by that point.

[@Hokum6]

This shit was so fucking glorious. Man do I miss these days.

[@brohan914]

Epic backhand

[@MaevaStardust]

Vorenus was a good, loyal soldier but had no head in politics. Pollo was always the better negotiator while Vorenus often let his anger and emotion drive his decision.

[@laisphinto6372]

My headcannon IS His political course was with gauls but you simply cannot Talk to Romans like you would to gauls

[@astronautis1674]

Man the acting is SO good!

[@nattakornshrestha8078]

"You will go there alone" "We have plenty of slaves" Atia, you hypocrite

[@bradhuygens]

@Gregory Smith What's the name of the book you read on Roman slavery? I've been reading a lot of books on ancient Rome recently and would love to add it to my list

[@bradhuygens]

@Gregory Smith Wow thanks! It doesn't look like it's too long either. Will read this one after I finish the Twelve Caesars

[@StudM01]

When she said "alone," I'm pretty sure that would naturally exclude sub-humans (slaves) from the count. 😋 Little Norsemen humor. I love that show, btw (Norsemen). And this one too (Rome).

[@Kalagenesis]

@Gregory Smith you sound like a misogynist

[@joaquinrodriguez227]

​@@StudM01slaves in roman law werent sub-humans, they were the lowest of the lowest classes yes, but the idea of "slaves= inferior begin based on race" was a anglo-saxon thing, not a mediterranean

[@f1aziz]

When Octavian left taking the horse to Caesar in Gaul he was just a child under his mother's influence, after spending time away from home, on the front line with the Roman army, he came back home having developed that masculine assertiveness. He was no longer a kid.

[@Conan_the_Based]

I was a little choked they replaced Max Pirkis in season 2, but Simon Woods really nailed the cold bloodedness in a way that Max might not have been able. Both actors performed their Octavians to perfection. As did every other actor in this series for that matter.

[@scottmatheson3346]

naw, pirkis was just as cold-blooded as necessary, whereas woods came off as mentally deficient - in fairness, probably have to share blame to the writers for that. but the recasting damaged the show.

[@bladerunner12]

I think they took different views of sociopathy. Woods played it like Octavian was deranged. Like he simply had no conception of good and evil or emotion. Pirkis's Octavian played it as a creature of pure reason that existed beyond emotional thinking, like Machiavellianism turned up to 11. Woods's is just a more blatant way of playing Octavian as a villain. Pirkis's portrayal challenges the audience to reject his genius-level rationality.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@bladerunner12 I think the RL Octavian's political success shows that he was more like the portrayal by Pirkis. He was almost as good as Julius Caesar at inspiring loyalty. I can't see anyone being terribly loyal to Woods' near psychopath.

[@nothingtospiffy1104]

I find it weird how Lucius vorenus says it is sacrilege to march on Rome and no man of Honor would follow but in the first episode brags about his father riding with sulla and how honorable it was kind of contradicts himself there

[@viceadmiralcongo]

+Brandon Hernandez Sulla was a military leader during the Social War and the Mithradatic War. Considering that Vorenus is an Italian (presumably settled on land in Italy) it seems likely his ancestors were granted land in Italy taken from the Socii following the Social War. That was a Roman war that nobody Roman really had problems with.

[@christianblake3997]

Sulla was vilified for entering Rome with an armed legion,the only soldiers to carry weapons were the pertorians!!!!!

[@HansenDing]

Is it that contradictory? Or is it just standard political hypocrisy? To people on one side Sulla would be a hero whilst people like Caesar a tyrant and a demagogue. Whilst to people on the other side might say that Sulla was a bloodthirsty thug for the rich and Caesar a great hero of the people. Usually people care about the ends a lot more than they care about the means in politics.

[@VersusARCH]

Great spot. Although in all fairness it might be that his father rode with Sulla against the barbarians, and not later during the civil war. I'd love to see a documentary about the Marians vs Sulla civil war. Just why is it so neglected in favor of Caesar-Pompey or Octavian-Anthony wars when it was really the OG blueprint for them is beyond me.

[@007dalal]

He was talking only about fighting with Sulla. Not about marching on Rome

[@e21big]

"Because the Roman people are suffering, because the slaves had taken all the job and the nobles had taken all the land, and the street are filled with the homeless and the starving" - sound.. incredibly familiar

[@novoeduardoac1248]

e21big Except that, at the time, it was true. Unlike today

[@Mastermind111111]

We'll be needing a dictator soon

[@W..949]

@Go Fish not really the Mexicans fault, its more the elite class that want them imported for cheap labour at the expense of their citizens.

[@hasnan7]

Spoken like a true neckbeard, probably in your mother basement. Blame all your problems on immigrants.

[@W..949]

@@hasnan7 are you denying the parallels between then and now? Like it or not, the western world is seeing the biggest influx of foreign labour it has ever seen in its history and just like back then it is detrimental to the citizens of what ever country they are coming to.

[@allanlomas5133]

"That won't be necessary" Pullo: :O

[@Agent1W]

2:59 Amen to that, for we Brutii are the only TRUE Romans. We saved Rome, we drove out the kings, we made the Republic!

[@ximen459]

I read that with the Brutii intro voice...

[@liamnmorri190]

Agent1W the family deserve respect for that....respect and OBIEDIENCE!

[@Joker-yw9hl]

The Greeks; they look down their perfumed noses at all Romans, and they hate us....I'm going to give them a reason for hate

[@greypilgrim228]

I applaud you all, my brothers in arms! This day you are gods among men for speaking such time honoured words, from such a great game!

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

*thee DAAAAAY issss OUUUUUUURRSSSSSSS*

[@andrewtataj497]

They should just do a whole series on the fall of the Republic from Marius to Augustus. The history writes the script pretty much without aid.

[@empireepic92]

Andrew Tataj it should begin with the grahcii brothers

[@caesarion4975]

Empire Epic I think that would be a interesting mini series if not about them then maybe about Tiberius the elder

[@andrewtataj497]

@@empireepic92 it totally could. Like, the very start of populism as a means to power. The whole end of the Republic/early Imperial period of Rome has way more plot that the vast majority of shows out there.

[@epa2349]

@@andrewtataj497 I say start from Punic wars, Hannibal vs Scipio to mithradaties war to marius & sulla time, then towards the end of the Republic to Augustus's reign to its end to rise of Christ, then ya got material after material at least till Marcus Aurelius. Then Aurelian, restorer of the world, then Constantine the great, rise of Christianity, probably end the series with Attila vs Aetius Or they could end with Justinian. I wish I was a billionaire, I would fund at least 7-8 season of it.

[@brucetucker4847]

Its been done in book form by Colleen McCullough. Wonderful novels.

[@tonyrandall3146]

I love the backchat Pullo gives Vorenus, he merely adopts the tone and commands him, thus proving his point. 4:03

[@Aradim90]

That casual backhand actually has quite a complex thing to it. Masters could not slap their servants twice, because to strike a servant with your palm would mean to see them as people and equals and to change your hand would mean that you are concious of that fact, thus they would only slap with their back hand once, it's also part of the turn the other cheek from christian tradition.

[@hazzmati]

christianity wasn't a thing yet during the time of caesar and octavian

[@tbeller80]

I'm sure OP realizes that. These rules/traditions of treating slaves lasted for a few hundred years, well into the rise of Christianity.

[@reginatang9310]

Hi, that sound really interesting, would you mind pointing me to the source of this information?

[@throwaway5744]

@@reginatang9310 It really just takes some analytical thinking, no source required. Whether or not one came from another is irrelevant, the point is they are fundamental human social behaviors that precede civilization. The point is, to backhand them once is to tell an inferior to stop, to slap someone twice is view them as a threat and thus an equal. It's similar to the "I don't even think of you" meme. The "turn the other cheek" line is often misunderstood as "be a punching bag for everyone", when in reality it means "challenge your offender to see you as an equal".

[@beckyweiss6072]

@@throwaway5744 Makes perfect sense to me - I imagine it's where we got a backhanded compliment being equivalent to a verbal demeaning slap from.

[@abdullahseckin]

2:54 dont look at the camera, dont look at the camera, dont look at the cam... damn it!

[@lucialuppi5402]

I think she was looking at the people talking. That is what Pullo was doing.

[@JB-xl2jc]

@@lucialuppi5402 Pullo was looking at, ahem, something else.

[@TheRoswellCode]

That may have been what happened, but I just thought that slaves were too scared to look at their masters for too long.

[@martinsleight9652]

Lol As soon as Atia realizes Caesar favours them with horses, "Excellent! We shall dine as equals!"

[@jianwen5760321]

Pullo checking out the maid, making her uncomfortable haha classic Pullo

[@HH-ni5hm]

She looked at the camera! 😡

[@dannyakadfate6771]

Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo. They started this series as Centurio and legionary. And they left it as true and loyal friends, even when they were opponents.

[@Erholts]

I love this series. The writing alone is pure genious. all the manners that people act according to and so on.

[@MooseMeus]

the first season of this was so damn good.

[@JD-fb5ps]

Atia of the Jullii, the thinking man's Cersei Ye gods do I have an eternal crush on Polly Walker..

[@Sawrattan]

If I could have one character crossover...

[@shaundavenport621]

God,Polly Walker is staggeringly beautiful!(imo)😁👍

[@patricktalbot8980]

Funny thing is the real Octavian loved adventures and was known to run off to see his uncle hence why Ceasar loved him so dearly. I love the character for the show but the real Octavian was almost like an indiana Jones. Yes he was very well educated and knew law and politics like no other but he also loved soldiering and outdoors activities

[@stormtrooperCorner]

No, he did not. That's why he had Agrippa

[@tomservo5347]

Always loved how Atia seemed to take a genuine interest in the viewpoints of Lucius and Titus, topped off with her phenomenal look of disbelief while asking "You two make unlikely friends."

[@rassanz]

They should have gone 10 seasons.

[@Steve-Richter]

This Octavian character is just about perfect.

[@Monochromicornicopia]

The actor that replaced him as adult Octavian was PERFECT for the role

[@argonwheatbelly637]

Both were good in the role, although I enjoyed the way Max acted the genius of Octavian more.

[@NapoleonCalland]

@@argonwheatbelly637 That's because Caesar the Younger (Caius Octavius became Caius Julius Caesar when his great-uncle's Will was read, in which Caesar adopted his great-nephew as his son, and made him the heir to his name and Fortune) keeps his genius on a low flame. Cicero, Marc Anthony and the others underestimate him as a result, which is why he goes on to become Rome's first emperor, Caesar Augustus ;) 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🔥🦅🔥🐝 🐝🔥🦅🔥🐝 🐝🔥🦅🔥🐝 🐝🔥🦅🔥🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 🐝🐝🐝🇫🇷🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

[@davidesguario2151]

"Pullo" does sound peculiar as a name. It actually means "chicken".

[@Life4Metalcore]

Davide Sguario it's a real name. Caesar mentions both him and Vorenous in The Gallic Wars. Both centurions at one of the sieges. Alesia I believe but don't quote me on that being the battle.

[@tbeller80]

One of the accounts I read (in English) listed his name as "Pulio" and said he started out with Caesar in Gaul, but eventually ended up choosing Pompey's side when the civil war started. Vorenus and Pullo/Pulio were mentioned by Caesar as rival Centurions who were always trying to out-hero the other. In one of the many battles in Gaul (not Alesia) one of them ran out into a melee to save the other.

[@Life4Metalcore]

tbeller80 Alesia was in Gaul

[@tbeller80]

I know. I was saying that the incident that Caesar wrote about regarding Vorenus and Pullo was in Gaul, but not specifically at Alesia.

[@jasonfenton8250]

tbeller80 "Well Vorenus? Is there any better time to settle our dispute?" And so Pullo leaped out of the roman fortification, and cut through the gauls. He was nearly killed, only to be saved by his fellow centurion, Vorenus, who went out to save him, only for Pullo to save Vorenus in turn, if I recall correctly. They both survived the battle, Pullo being mentioned again as a member of Pompey's army. It's quite a spectacular story, but I suspect there is an exaggerated truth inside it.

[@johnyounardi8749]

Great great acting beautifully done Bravo

[@Tfg48r]

Octovian certainly know his place in the world.

[@jumpinshade]

The Atia part was spectacular probably best one in the series.But as a man I enjoyed rise of Augustus (Octavian) more

[@patricktalbot8980]

Atia saying we shall put it out of our minds is her covering up the fact she was responsible

[@charlesferdinand422]

Roman meals do basic (just grapes, sweet wine, bread, meat, fruits, nuts, fish and vegetables) and yet they seem incredibly fucking delicious.

[@bartolomeestebanmurillo4459]

Octavian's story arc really is exemplifies the "from nobody to nightmare" character trope.

[@Zennofobic]

probably my favorite scene and episode of the series big fan of Max Pirkis also of Master & Commander fame

[@larrycunningham7987]

Listen to the description Octavian gives of the Roman situation. So familiar.

[@mehmetbogut1406]

LMAO, the few secons between ~:13-:16 .. "ow!" *SLAAAAPPP*, "but mother..." AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[@junkim2789]

Vorenus is the first centurion of the first battalion of the legion. This is a prestigious rank. It is the highest rank any non officer soldier can go. So, when Vorenus says "STFU" to Pullo, no wonder Pullo just shuts up.

[@mito88]

by non-officer do you mean a commoner (non royal blood)?

[@stephenmason1028]

"Friends? In what particular?"

[@chazarcola7639]

ATIA OF THE JULII. Power was her ultimate ambition. Heartbreak was her final destiny. 💔 POLLY WALKER DESERVED AN EMMY NOMINATION AS BEST LEAD ACTRESS IN A DRAMA SERIES.

[@jaimebergner]

they should have never re-cast Octavian, the one thing that really bothered me. That young actor was fantastic in Master and Commander too.

[@buddhastl7120]

Still love Atia to this day. She blew Cleopatra’s doors off.

[@harabec001]

0:15 that slap tho

[@darj617]

Very non-chalant and casual, like it's not the first time he's done that.

[@zackthebongripper7274]

@@darj617 That is how you keep a woman in check.

[@Reach1335]

She shall wear it as a badge of honor.

[@0IDaveCouch]

I wonder who would win between Atia and Cersei? Atia methinks.

[@czos9239]

Whatever happened, the loser would have had bad times in lock up. Both series showed that.

[@lastword8783]

@@czos9239 i havent watched the show in ages but I remember Atia being successful because of her brains. She was a little aloof but she wasn't as dumb as Cercei.

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Im a big SoIaF fan but Cersei is an idiot, she only got by on family connections and, in the shows case, plot armour

[@Cortesevasive]

Because only starks had plot armour

[@trevalyan006]

"We shall force you to walk through the streets naked, that being sighted and insulted will engender shame and dishonor in you." Atia of the Julii: what's next, eat my way out of chocolate prison?

[@jerseycitysteve]

Walk around a college campus and check out the 19 year olds. Think about this. Octavian Caesar became consul at 19.

[@doublep1980]

Alexander the Great became king of Macedonia at 19 and started his campaign against the Persian Empire. Let that sink in for a moment. These guys were just a different breed of man back then.

[@johndaarteest]

Guy Gibson, was KIA in 1944 when he was 26, he had already completed over 170 bombing missions with the RAF including the famous Dam Busters raid.

[@jupiterrising887]

Today's precocious pipsqueak is tomorrow's history changing emperor.

[@ubermikesocal]

0:14 Love the instant karma bitchslap given by Octavian. He certainly had no problem being a prick

[@iagoporto5522]

"By virtue of rank, if nothing else" LOOOOOOL

[@tsukeisawa7786]

Can we appreciate that vorenus has killed 300 people without sustaining injury for himself? And this was in ceasears campaigns they were always outnumbered

[@RocketPropelledGuy]

I do like that it doesn't shirk away from the treatment of slaves. It's how it was. That sucks. For the slaves.

[@AndalusianPhilosopher]

There are so many periods in Roman history which need exploration. The 5th century is also fascinating period.

[@josephpaladion235]

Atia is great in this scene..

[@olgachafeeva2828]

It's not "creepy". To them it's natural, slave is not a person, it's a thing.

[@scottmatheson3346]

if that were true it wouldn't make any less creepy, and in point of fact it's not true. if they literally couldn't see slaves as people then making slaves into freedmen would never happen, would be an unthinkable concept. even in this very series we see pullo falling in love with a slave. christianity takes off in this culture because "there is no slave nor free" is such an obviously correct viewpoint.